WEBVTT - Thou Shalt Save The Fucking Planet 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Everywhere, a production of I Heart Radio. I'm 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:12.880 your host Daniel Scheffler. This week's commandment thou shalt save 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:22.200 the fucking planet. Well, here's the thing. I wish I 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:26.599 knew exactly how to save the planet. I simply do 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.200 not have the answers, But as a frequent flyer, every 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.680 week traveler, it certainly is something I want to be 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:39.120 thinking about as I see this great Earth. I do, however, 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.879 think they are small ways, like thinking about personal waste 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.520 and being more conscious of how to take take take 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.400 from the planet, and then they are more systematic, big 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:54.880 ways that government and big tech can help us. Perhaps 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.800 the problem is we can't agree on a simple thing. 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:03.880 Just how important is nature to you? The Amazon is 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:07.440 on fire as we speak. Why does it seem like 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.640 half the planet cares and the other half much less so? 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.520 Michael and I talk about microplastics in the oceans all 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:20.160 the time, and now we've started wondering about the fish 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:27.240 we consume Poisson de plastique. Doesn't that sound delicious? Also, 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:31.120 Elon Musk's mission to Mars feels like it's becoming a 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:37.000 real possibility, So perhaps some are even less inclined to 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.360 care about nature on the third rock from the sun. 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.679 But alas the future is here, and I think the 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:50.280 future is now, we can agree that a productive, diverse 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:54.080 natural world plus a stable climate have been the very 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:59.919 basics that have formed our civilization's successes, And so recycling 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.080 feels really good to me. When I go to my 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:07.160 local farmer's market or popping at a farm stall, or 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.600 when I shop at places like organic Farmer That's with 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.000 a pH in case you wanted to look that up, 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:18.200 it does all feel fantastic to me. And I love 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.480 that when I walk around Tokyo there are no trash cans, 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.880 that it's my responsibility to take my trash home with me. 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:29.920 But let's be honest, what does it really mean? What 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.560 am I actually impacting as I trend all over the 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:37.160 world with my sneakers made from ocean plastic that has 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.400 been recycled. I do think we need to be talking 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:44.800 about regenerative farming, and the best way to see this 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.600 and understand this is to travel to places where it's 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:52.400 being done on big and small scales. In fact, we 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.079 should be doing that right now. I hope that President 0:02:56.200 --> 0:03:01.120 Warren next year will start offering subsidies to organic farming 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.840 when she takes office. That can be my side hustle 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:10.359 organic farming lobbyist. Okay, so back to what feels utterly 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.840 wonderful whilst I'm traveling. What feels really good is when 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:19.320 I remember to bring my reusable water flask slash coffee flask. 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.840 I recently started counting how many plastic bottles of water 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.639 get foisted on me during a transcond flight, and it's 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.320 not pretty. Then for the moment, being part of the 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:37.440 Paris Climate Agreement does also feel utterly fantastic. It is, 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.760 in fact, Climate Week in New York as we speak. 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.080 And just knowing that there are forces from all over 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:48.040 the globe that are beyond my comprehension working on helping 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:54.560 this planet, well fuck, that feels sensational. As someone who's 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:58.240 on board an aeroplane, often I realize that I'm also 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:01.840 doing my fair share of harm to the planet. I'm 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.200 also not suggesting we don't fly ever again with all 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.560 some kind of perspective. So now, my friend Nick, who 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.880 lives in San Louis, Obispo, plants a tree for every 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:17.000 trip I take on a plane. Mother Earth thanks him 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:22.160 actively so as a frequent frequent traveler, I'm clearly not 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.359 doing enough, So what else should I be doing or 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:30.320 thinking about doing? I am recycling, I'm always shopping local. 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.880 I do turn off the lights and air conditioner in 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:38.400 hotel rooms when I'm not there, and of course I 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:43.159 do not need my hotel linen and towels washed every day. 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.000 I think about new ways to aid in this department 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.440 all the time. Of course, I would love any suggestions, 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:54.520 so please reach out. Eco tourism was a movement that 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:58.080 started to take shape back in the nineteen eighties. It's 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:01.279 the oldest and most commonly used word for it, and 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:08.080 now we say things like sustainable tourism or green tourism, Responsible, ethical, mindful. 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:15.400 Ecotourism is essentially all about bringing nature and wildlife conservationists, 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:20.359 with local communities and the responsible travel industry together to 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:25.400 ensure development is focused on long term sustainability rather than 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.479 strong term profit. So let me tell you a little 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:32.160 story about a dear friend's mother, let's just call her 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:38.360 Lie Lie. Lie Lie recently told me that climate change 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.359 and the destruction of this planet is part of the 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.360 bigger plan. It will rid the earth of the glut 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.880 of population, and it will make space for the right 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.000 amount of humans to be here. It is, after all, 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:55.919 natural selection, a sort of natural order of construction and destruction. 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:00.040 When she said it, it felt so severe to me. 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.599 But there's something to it, and I just cannot stop 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.800 thinking about it. Maybe the planet is saying, okay, enough 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:13.440 parasites be gone. Speaking of Lila, well, she's extreme, but 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:18.080 nobody's pushing the conversation forward the way she does. As 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.359 much as I like Algon, he just isn't hitting the 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:26.960 same notes that Lilac can. She's dedicated her whole life 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.600 to all this change, and you know what shocks her 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:34.599 most the fact that she thinks nobody's speaking out and 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:39.719 she's right, why are we not all speaking up? Last 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.240 week in New York, kids took off school to go 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:46.640 protest for the planet, and I feel that's crucial, but 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.800 not enough. They may actually need to call lie Line 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:53.840 to lead their march and be their mascot. She's charismatic 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:59.839 and speaks her truth. In the nineties seventies, living in 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.599 the original Venice Beach, she would pile the kids in 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.320 the car and head over to the fast food chains 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.360 drive through. She'd pull up and the family would roll 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.960 down their windows and yell at whichever ill fated teenager 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.400 was earning minimum wage at the window. How could you 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:21.920 use styr foam and all that clastic? Today she drives 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.760 a tesla and she uses it for dumps the diving 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.640 in San Francisco. She recently told me that people are 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.520 discovering all her good spots, but she still does love 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:36.760 it because, as Lilae says, they throw out all this 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.680 ugly fruit that is perfectly good to use for jams 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:45.360 and who knows what else. I adore Lilae, even though 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:48.360 she told me that my very expensive cologne was making 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:50.880 her tongue tingle and it was probably not good for 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:55.320 her by arm. She lives on hundreds of acres in Yosemite, 0:07:55.760 --> 0:08:00.440 and she has woofers, the World Organization of organic farmers, 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.880 who come and work and live on her land. They 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.960 learn how to go back to the land. And this 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:10.280 is where my travel thoughts come into play. Isn't this 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:14.400 an amazing way to travel the world, Like let's go 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.840 to a kibbutz and learn how farming is done in Israel? 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.400 Or what have we traveled to Bolivia and see how 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:25.360 Class Maya's teams are employing young people in LAPAs to 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.440 learn to cook with native ingredients in order to rely 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:33.200 less on imports, or what about going to farms outside 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.800 Abu Dhabi and working on them for a day or 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.760 two because who knew that the UAE even had serious 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:44.760 farming happening. Lila is inspiring, to say the least. In 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:49.480 her extremity. She does somewhat push people away, but that's 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:53.840 what the fringe does here. But without her, will all 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:57.880 be ruining the planet every day with hardly enough regard 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.280 for this life. Can some and please give this woman 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.880 her own Netflix show or a podcast. She can kind 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:08.319 of be the Murrie Condo of the environment. She would 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.800 come into your home or your business, or your country 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.560 and show you how to clean it up. Imagine this, No, no, 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.920 put that down. That's far too much plastic, Daniel. You 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.480 do not need to use single use gloves to touch 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.240 that meat, Daniel. Are you going to use those vegetable scraps? 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:26.920 They are very good for the manure, and those carrots 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.760 and beach shavings they are perfect for coloring my hair. 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.080 I hope you're planning to drink that urine, Daniel. It's 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:37.120 very good for your immune system. We all need a 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:42.080 little lie line in our lives. In all my travels, 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.520 I find it difficult to always see and understand what 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:49.600 everybody's doing to save the planet. Lilac excluded, of course, 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:52.760 A few places that stick out to me on my 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:58.160 travels are Botswana, Guyana, and Costa Rica. Of Course, the 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.920 obvious northern European countries I've been to, like Denmark and 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:06.760 Sweden and Finland are also included. In Botswana, they took 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:11.000 the country's entire military or defense budget and poured it 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:15.920 all into conservation. Just think about the impact. If we 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:21.160 slivered even two percent of our defense budget into conservation, 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.760 it could change the whole country. Costa Rica is by 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.280 far the most eco conscious tourism place on the planet 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:32.240 right now, with an endless amount of regulation around hotels 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.400 and resorts being able to build and operate on principles 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:39.319 that are good for the planet, less waste, less destruction. 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.400 In Guyana, they aim to achieve one clean and renewable 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:50.360 energy supply by and then I found this incredible travel 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:55.720 app operator Utopia. They're based in Mexico and they're offering 0:10:56.200 --> 0:11:00.640 biocultural trips. Utopia is a platform that will house travelers 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:06.079 to search for authentic experiences outside the conventional routes. They 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:10.360 access rural communities, especially the indigenous ones, with hosts who 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.880 want to share the incredible natural richness of their land. 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:18.199 They preserve the natural and cultural heritage of Mexico by 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:23.800 revolutionizing tourism. Okay, so what is going to make the 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.240 biggest impact. That's probably what we should be thinking about 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.800 on every trip we take. I try not to preach, 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.000 but rather want to have an open dialogue and try 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.640 and figure this all out. Together. We could save the planet, 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.600 but first we need to find some common ground. I 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.720 faint when I see photos of seals covered in oil. 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.520 My heart caves when I see forests on fire. But 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.000 that's not everyone's messaging. It needs to be something that 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:58.840 affects everyone in their daily life. Okay, fine, let's sci 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:03.040 fi this. Margaret Atwood's new book is out after all, 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:06.520 and I just flew out of Gile Lead. This is 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:10.800 the Netflix series you've been waiting for. All humans get 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:15.120 a horrible disease infected by the Earth from its very core, 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:19.440 all at once. The more you do to help save 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:24.640 the planet, whether it's banal recycling or big legislation, it 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:29.880 all starts to heal you. The cure is to help 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:34.800 the planet. If you do nothing, you just start wasting away, 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:41.120 slowly dying, killing yourself every moment, and if you help, 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:47.680 you may live. Maybe this is already happening and we 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:52.680 just don't know it. And now let's talk to Holly, 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:59.400 my dearest friend, for some conservation history. I sat here 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:03.800 being silent for minutes. He was so busy on your 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.880 phone getting Costello ticket. Have a little chat. I did 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.520 that before we started. Don't throw me into the kidding. 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:13.480 These are very important things. But one of the things 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.600 that you talked about was conservation, and it's an interesting 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.400 subject because different areas of the world have such different 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.760 histories of conservation. And I thought we could talk a 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:28.760 little bit about the juxtaposition between Western culture and then 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.839 how conservation has been handled in South Africa because they 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.400 intertwine during the colonial era and some interesting things happen. 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:37.800 Do you know when the first national park in the 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:44.040 world was created in America? No, do you want to 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.280 guess what country? It's one you've been to. I mean, 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:51.720 that doesn't narrow things down very much at all. In Mongolia, Oh, 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:56.000 I knew this. And it's interesting because there is debate 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.960 over when people would say historically, the conservation movement begame 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.599 it like a lot of people link it to industrialization, 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.560 which is natural because there was a resultant reaction to 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.640 that that there was concern over what we were doing. 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:13.280 But really what is often discussed as the first conservation document, 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.080 at least in Western culture, dates back to sixteen sixty two, 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.680 and that was paper titled Silva, or a Discourse on 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:25.880 Forest Trees and the Propagation of Timber in His Majesty's Dominions, 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.160 and that was written by John Evelyn and presented to 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.640 the Royal Society, and that was actually at the urging 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.800 of the Royal Society as the King was planning to 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.200 build some more fantastic things and they wanted to consider 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.560 what that would result in in terms of the forestry. 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.120 It's kind of interesting because he really does talk about 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.760 things that we're still discussing today. There's a lot about 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.040 deforestation in England and his concerns about it at the time, 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.160 and he really was one of the first people, at 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.680 least on paper, to introduce this idea of replenishment of 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.200 forest resources. So as you're kind down trees for lumber, 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:05.160 we need to be replacing those trees with saplings and seedlings, 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.720 and it was actually really successful. People weren't like, you're 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:09.680 a nut, what are you talking about. They're like, oh, 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.800 these are things we should think about. But really it wasn't, 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.080 as I said, until the early industrial era that we 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.920 really first start seeing people raised some red flags about it. 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.680 Prussia and France started looking at these problems, and as 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.520 early as the eighteenth century, so in the seventeen hundreds, 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:27.680 they were considering how they were going to manage their 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.600 forests and how agriculture was going to be managed to 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.280 not completely deplete the land of its options and its 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:38.360 natural resources. And then the Napoleonic Wars had some other issues. 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:40.960 That is actually when the first conservation laws came into 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.600 being was during the Napoleonic Wars, which were specifically related 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.600 to teak trees. People were very concerned about them, and 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:50.520 so that was the first time someone said, if a 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.760 tree is smaller than this, you cannot cut it down, 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.360 like they had to be mature trees only. And then, 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.960 as you know, science developed, there was more and more 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.400 information that people could kind of feed into the papers 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.240 that they were writing in the research that they were doing, 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.320 and slowly, over time we get more and more interest. 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.080 Theodore Roosevelt in the US was a big proponent of 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.840 conservation at a time when the conservationists of preservationists were 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.240 kind of at odds. In case anyone doesn't know, conservation 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:19.360 is about management of resources. Preservation doesn't want to touch 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.440 the resources, but just essentially cordon them off and let 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.040 them be. But at the same time, if we turn 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:28.600 and spend the globe a little and look at South Africa, 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:34.120 there's an interesting thing. So before colonization, before Europeans decided 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.520 to move in and do their thing, there was kind 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.480 of already a natural harmony with the natural world and 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.880 the people, and they kind of just inherently understood that 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.479 this is not a thing we should strip and destroy 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.640 for our own benefit. There was a religious element to 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.560 some of that, where they just naturally held certain things 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.320 in a sacred space and so they would not touch them. 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.640 One of the things that is interesting is the idea 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.560 of totem animals, like sacred animals could not be hunted 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.480 at all, and that was they didn't need a law. 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:04.280 They just understood that that was the thing that was 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:09.280 off limits. And then scarce products were really just reserved 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:14.040 for things like honoring people in the highest levels of society. 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.560 They were not something like oh I he got and 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:18.919 everything I want and everything. Let's get all the ivory 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:22.480 things and then suddenly you have destroyed the ivory sources 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.760 the beautiful animals that produced them. And of course during 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.879 the colonial period, westerners moved in and wanted to build 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:30.720 all the things and did the same things that were 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.120 causing problems in Europe. In the US, there was also 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.680 a strange thing that happened, which is that conservation grew 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:42.320 as an idea, but places that were demarcated for conservation 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.520 were also only for rich people to enjoy. In some cases, 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:51.000 there were entire groups of indigenous people's that were moved 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:52.840 off of land because they were like, no, no, we 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.159 want to save this land so white people can go 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.520 stand in it and have wonder. I know, you lived 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.760 here a long time, but you go somewhere, which is 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.200 kind of a really messed up way to look at it. 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:09.399 And of course, eventually, particularly post apartheid, that's really when 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:14.120 South Africa established it's more modern approach to like park 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.480 management and looking at truly nature as something that needed 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.720 to be cared for and protected and and how that 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.720 kind of is still. I mean we are all every country, 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.439 I think, with a few exceptions, is still working out 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:28.880 the best ways to deal with things. Because this technology 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:33.600 evolves and grows, we are accidentally depleting resources we weren't 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.080 even thinking about. Even in the early days of cold 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.359 there were people going, this doesn't last forever. Do you 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.439 understand that? But we're still having the conversation a hundred 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:43.840 and fifty years later. But it's one of those things 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.520 where you, I think the idea of conservation kind of 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.440 gets lumped in as a by some folks, not everybody. 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.280 It almost gets seen as like, no, this is a 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.399 like a hippie dippie thing. This is nice to have 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.280 a need to right, this is this is for those 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:03.879 people that are socialists commuters with nature. But what these 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:08.560 people before colonization in South Africa inherently understood is that 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.800 there's a symbiosis involved that you can't deny. And if 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:17.119 you completely destroy an environment and the animals there for 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:21.639 your own benefit, you are ultimately destroying yourself. Maybe not 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.600 yourself and your generation, but your people behind you are 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.320 going to reap the bad results of all of those 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.560 those desire driven decisions that were made that ultimately hurt 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.920 both the earth and it's creatures. Well, like in South Africa, 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:42.199 four happened. Nelson Mandela came out of prison and it 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:46.760 became a democracy, and suddenly South Africa opened up to 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:49.840 the world. Suddenly it became popular and at that point 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:55.280 was the first luxury safari launches that opened Singita. They 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.919 were like, wait, everyone's looking to South Africa. We should 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.040 do an INCREDI doable place where people could come and 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:07.359 appreciate the wild and conservation. That's when Singita started and 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.359 they started building these beautiful launches so that it wasn't 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.480 just camping in the bush, think like Meryl Streep out 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.400 of Africa. They turned it into a much more finessed experience. 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:22.840 It's glamping with animals, well a little even more fabulous 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:28.200 than glamping. I mean, Singita has this u incredible footprint 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.920 in South Africa and Tanzania and Zimbabwe, where they've had 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:40.480 very wealthy founders and investors bring a kind of needed 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:46.080 conservation element to luxury tourism and safari where if you 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.760 want to go there's a huge amount of the money 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:52.679 goes to conservation. I mean in Tanzania, in the Grammati Reserve, 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:55.959 which is where the sinky is. They have nine hundred 0:20:56.440 --> 0:21:02.080 full time anti poaches patrol rolling, which is incredible. So 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.399 when you go to the right places, you realize that 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.439 your money is going towards conservation where it's like a 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:13.000 country like Botswana did this amazing thing where they took 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:17.639 the entire military budget and put it all towards conservation, 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:19.960 which is incredible. And when you go there and you 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:24.480 stay at wilderness has these incredible largest little mambo and mambo, 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:29.200 and you spend time with some of the game ranges, 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:33.960 they'll explain to you how every little element can now 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.040 be funded by these projects. I mean, Africa is like 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:41.080 so important because it hasn't been developed as much as 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:45.040 a place like America has or Europe. Right the level 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.200 of industrialization is just not there to create that right 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:52.280 now for a slight respite. And I'll be right back 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:57.679 with everywhere after a word from our sponsors. You've just 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:03.919 been somewhere, what say we go everywhere? Now? Well, I 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:06.120 guess like the thing that we haven't talked about with 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:09.520 all of this is that there's an element of global 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:13.240 warming attached to all of this. The planet is warming, 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:18.600 Animals are migrating in different ways. Land is changing, so 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:22.760 the grassland may not be the same grassland as it was, 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:26.000 and these animals are forced to move and where will 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:28.200 they go? So this is my thing. I mean, you 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.919 worked at a zoo, right, So like I volunteered at 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:33.040 an aquarium. I always say you work there, I mean, 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:36.320 you volunteered at an aquarium. What's interesting for me is 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:39.760 that in some ways, I feel very uncomfortable with zoos. 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:44.200 I feel uncomfortable watching an animal in captivity. I'm used 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:48.000 to seeing animals in I guess from a game drive vehicle, 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:51.600 but not in a cage or large cage. I'm seeing 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:54.480 them in a more natural setting. I know it's also 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:58.240 fenced in, but that's for antipoaching reasons. But I have 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:01.399 a sort of uncomfortableity with zoos. I I like, I 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:03.960 kind of appreciate the animals, but I feel like bad 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:06.520 that they are in a cage. Yeah, And I mean 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:09.359 I feel like we should acknowledge, right, there are much 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:13.879 different levels of zoos and aquariums. Like good zoos and 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:17.600 aquariums are often dealing with rescue animals, and there is 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:21.520 a balance. I completely understand the desire to not see 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:25.600 those institutions exist anymore. There is a flip side though, 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:28.639 right where at the same time, I think to the 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:32.840 average person, it's a teaching tool to really drive home 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:36.679 the message of conservation. It's one thing to look at 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:40.040 a picture in a book or even look at a documentary. 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:44.120 But then when you see one of these majestic creatures, 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:48.640 hopefully in as naturalized an environment as possible, up close, 0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:53.359 it shifts you, like you realize really what we're fighting 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:55.960 for likely what needs to be saved. Well, when you 0:23:55.960 --> 0:23:58.040 go to Africa, that's the thing that hits you. It's 0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:01.119 impossible for not to write if you singing this animal 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:05.679 in this state and you think, wait, this is with nature. 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:08.360 It has to remain like this. Yeah, And the thing 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:10.280 is right, like, not everybody is going to get the 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:12.480 chance to go to Africa. And that's where I'm like, no, 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:15.359 I get it. But again, it's very tricky and it 0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:17.119 it is one of those things where you want to 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:21.000 make sure that the animals are getting optimal care. And 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:22.679 I mean, I've had the good fortune to speak to 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:26.080 like veterinarians and facilities like that, and and it kind 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:28.560 of breaks my heart because I know there are people 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:32.600 who are vehemently against the very places they work. But 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:35.439 when I see these people, they are dedicated exclusively to 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:39.080 really like their lives are about that work. I mean, 0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:42.040 they're like the people that sometimes don't go home for 0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:44.080 a week at a time, their kids don't see them 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:48.040 because whatever animal might need their attention at any given moment, 0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:50.040 so they'll just sleep on the floor in their office. 0:24:50.720 --> 0:24:52.119 I mean, there's a side of it. I think that 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:54.879 people don't realize that. For the most part, people nobody 0:24:54.920 --> 0:25:00.680 gets into like becoming a biologist or veterinarian of exotic 0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:04.200 animals for the money or fame, right, And they're certainly 0:25:04.200 --> 0:25:07.320 not there because they don't love animals. So that's like 0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:10.320 the trick, right. It's not a high paying profession. It 0:25:10.320 --> 0:25:14.000 does require a lot of personal sacrifice, particularly if you're 0:25:14.000 --> 0:25:16.679 working in a big facility like that, because quite frankly, 0:25:16.760 --> 0:25:19.920 like a whale doesn't care if you have some stuff scheduled. 0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:22.000 Maybe they're sick, or maybe they're pregnant, or maybe they're 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:23.720 you know, there are any number of things that might 0:25:24.440 --> 0:25:27.360