WEBVTT - Bonus | Q&A 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.040 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.279 those of the authors and participants and do not necessarily 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:10.160 represent those of iHeart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:15.040 This series contains discussions of violence and sexual violence. Listener 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:21.759 discretion is advised. Hey, it's been here. Today's a bonus 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.880 episode before we return to the regular series. So we've 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.240 been getting some interesting voicemails and questions and there's some 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.840 stuff we want to investigate and follow up on, and 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.159 doing this episode gives us a little more time to 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:38.880 do that. So anyway, let's get to it. Hey, then, 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.239 my name is Clarissa. I have been listening to your 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.199 podcast for the last few days, and it's kind of 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:47.080 crazy to me because I listened to a lot of 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:52.680 true crime podcasts and this one especially hit home because 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:58.640 it's where I live. Um. I live in Burnham, Illinois, 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:04.120 which is right between Chicago and Northwest Indiana. I'm right 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:10.080 between Hammond and Chicago technically, um and randomly, I also 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:15.440 lived in Texas Houston, So I feel super related to 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.000 this story and I just wanted to know what information 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:23.320 you're looking for. So if you have any uh, leaves 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.119 or anything that I could possibly help look into. Since 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.240 I live in the area, I would love to be 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:33.720 able to help get any information that I can. Hey, Clarissa, 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.400 thanks for the offer, and we'll definitely keep that in mind. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:38.760 But probably the thing that would help the most of 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.520 this point is just spreading word about the podcast and 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.839 just kind of awareness about how you know, Darren Vaughan 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:49.800 might be linked to these other cold cases. I'm still 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.800 very interested in talking to people who knew on at 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:54.960 various stages of his life to try to verify some 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.400 of his stories. And I'm also interested in talking to 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:02.040 China or people that knew her um about how it 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:04.480 was that she knew that Tira Beatty was dead in 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:08.880 an abandoned building, what was going on there? And Clarissa 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.079 also stay tuned because in an upcoming episode, we are 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.320 going to discuss a cluster of murders in Chicago and 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.120 explore whether or not Von might have been connected to it. Uh. 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:25.519 Speaking of Chicago, here's another voicemail. This is Pam Zeckman, 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:31.920 former CBS reporter who did the story with Tom Hargrove 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:36.720 on the possible serial killer in the Chicago area. I 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.839 just wanted to tell you that I listened to your 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.560 podcasts and you did a terrific job with it, and 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.280 I know you have a lot more coming out, and 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.400 I wanted to just tell you that I thought I 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.520 was very impressed. Thanks bye. I was really excited to 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.080 get that voicemail. I wonder if if Hargrove shared the 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.240 podcast with her for context she was actually involved opped 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.240 in them rage Tavern staying that I mentioned in episode 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.280 one where the journalists made the fake bar to expose 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:10.160 city corruption. Um and Harger have actually mentioned her to me. 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:12.760 Um in one of his interviews that he was thrilled 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.000 to work with her about that cluster of serial murders 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:20.040 in Chicago. So the next message comes from Twitter, so 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.239 we'll have a text to speech algorithm read that one. 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.000 What's up, man, love listening to your pods. I'm from 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.880 Northwest Indiana. Back in the summer oft I met my 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:36.160 uncle at eighteen Street Brewery in Gary. My uncle works 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.280 in downtown Chicago and rides the train to work, and 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.560 there is a train stopped right by the brewery in Gary. 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.480 So it had to be around five o'clock or so. 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.200 There were probably ten to twenty people total at the brewery. 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:53.320 It was a Friday night, normally a pretty mixed race crowd. 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.160 This guy is sitting at the bar stuck out though. 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.320 A couple of months pass and van S mugshot pops 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.920 up on the low cool news. Uncle and I immediately 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.480 text each other and say, wasn't that the guy we've 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.880 seen at the brewery? He had one to two beers 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.840 while we were there. He was chatting with the bartender 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.880 and people at the bar. He left before us. Not 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:18.039 a groundbreaking story for you, but maybe you can reach 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.000 out to the brewery and see if he was a 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:25.880 regular or something. Good luck and keep crushing it. So 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:27.919 I contacted that brewery. They were saying it was a 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:32.160 small operation back in so probably the owner is the 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.000 one to speak to you. So I've tried to get 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.400 in contact with him and I'll let you guys know 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:41.640 if anything comes from it. Also, a computer pronouncing Vaughan's 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.200 last name is Van reminded me that that's a question 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.880 I've gotten a couple of times now. So his name 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.680 is Darren Vaughan, but a lot of the early news 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:53.320 reports pronounced it as Van, so I thought that was 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.480 his name until months into the project, and a lot 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:58.960 of people I interviewed. Also, I thought his name was 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.800 pronounced van and, but from the interrogation tapes, you know 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.799 it's clearly Vaughan and and a lot of people close 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.520 to the case, um, you know know that it's Vaughn. 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.839 But but even then, sometimes if I was interviewing them 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.280 early on, I might have said Van and they started 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:19.640 saying Van Hi. Then this is how they tuned him 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:23.040 from Birmingham, Alabama. I've been listening to Algorithm every week 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.479 on my directory work, So thanks for the great interial 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.080 question for you for the upcoming human A. Are you 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:33.040 finding it challenging to navigate the language around sex works 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:37.320 for the series, especially since Vawn himself uses such dehumanizing 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.120 language when it comes from the victims. Thanks in advance 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:43.640 for answering my question. I've gotten comments from a couple 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.919 of listeners about my use of the word prostitute on 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.320 the podcast, basically telling me that there's a lot of 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.680 stigma associated with that word, um, and that many prostitutes 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.479 prefer to be called sex workers. I'm going to try 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.880 to be better about using the term sex worker verse 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.280 as prostitute, but there are some places where I think 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.520 is still appropriate to use the term you know, for example, 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.120 if we're talking about statistics, like you know, what's the 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:14.240 percentage of the victims of serial killers who are prostitutes, 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:16.640 and you know what's the percentage of victims who are 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.080 sex workers? Those numbers will be different, and I think 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.640 we need to be you know, very specific sometimes, right, 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:28.320 because sex workers is this bigger, more all encompassing term 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:33.600 that includes people like strippers or people involved in pornography, 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:39.839 and you know, those people's risks, for example, being victimized 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.280 in crime, are going to be different than people who 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.559 are engaging in prostitution. And in fact, you know, even 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:51.240 within prostitution there's different levels. Street prostitution is a lot 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:54.240 higher risk than being in your own room the way 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:58.159 Africa was is actually one of the least risky ways 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:02.279 of doing prostitution. But you know, nothing is ever completely 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:06.159 risk free. There are also sex workers who do self 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:14.080 identify as prostitutes. For example, here's a voicemail from Maxine Dugan. Hey, Hi, 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:19.320 it's Maxcine Dugan UM callings from San Francisco, California. I'm 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:23.520 with the Erotic Service Providers Union UM. The Erotic Service 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:27.880 Providers Union is by and for those who labor erotically 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:33.160 to gain you know, their agency through solidarity organizing for occupational, 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:38.040 social and economic rights UM and I myself work as 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:43.000 a prostitute of thirty plus years, so I find that 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.920 your show is phenomenal in that the woman who was 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.600 looking for Africa, her friend is able to tell the 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.480 police that she knows the phone number of the guys 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.160 who saw Africa laugh, and she gives it to the 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.600 police and they're able to get him into custody. That 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.920 woman's faced inn array of felony charges for facilitating prostitution, 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.600 you know, which has been recriminalized in recent years as 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:10.240 sex trafficking, when really she's just a part of Africa's 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.920 you know security. You know. I'm glad she was able 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:15.960 to do the right thing and tell the police the 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:20.400 crucial information to end this particular serial killer's reign of terror. 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:26.000 She deserves a metal. Marvin and Tara's story reminds me 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.880 of Sarah Derrid's story, who goes missing in the Lower 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:34.760 East Side of Vancouver, BC in the late ninete Sarah's 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.600 customer tries to report her missing to the police, but 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.240 the police had some arbitrary rule that had to be 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.960 a relative to report the missing person, so the customer 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:49.080 context Sarah's sister, Maggie, and Maggie was able to report um, 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.360 but given Sarah's status as a street based drug using 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.240 prostitute you know, which are all criminalized activities, the police 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.560 don't find her until they find her DNA on the 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:04.280 property of a now convicted serial killer, Robert Pickton. The 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:08.280 podcast also reminds me of the Green River Killer victims, 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:12.319 whose boyfriends were often labeled as TIMPs when they tried 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:16.360 to report the missing to the police, so the Seattle 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:21.160 Police Department dismissed them because the missing people's status as 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:24.920 street based prostitutes, and the police also responded with conducting 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.520 stam operations for certain known prostitution areas you know, which 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.240 only had the effect of forcing those workers until less 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:34.640 populated and not will at areas where they became easier 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:39.000 targets for the Green River Killer. I really appreciate that 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.560 that feedback, Maccine, and thanks for listening. I hope that 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:47.280 regardless of how anyone feels about sex work and it's legality, 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.520 I hope that we can at least all agree that, 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:52.959 you know, we need to find some ways to make 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.120 it as safe as possible. Sex workers need to be 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.839 able to go to police to report crimes, and when 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:02.840 they do report crimes, they need to be taken seriously. Similarly, 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.560 when a sex worker disappears, police need to to take 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.840 that seriously as well, and and treat it the way 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.280 they would treat any other missing person case. We need 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:14.520 to demand that from the police, and we need to 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:31.120 hold the police accountable. So our next voicemail comes from Lima, Ohio, 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:34.440 which is the city in western Ohio where vond moved 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:40.440 as a teenager and went to high school. I'm currently 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:45.680 listening to your episode where mentioned bomb was dan Lima 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:51.040 and graduated in nine. I live outside of Lima. Lima 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:55.079 is a really freaking rous town. Um, I don't go 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.839 to Lima for anything. I know he would have been 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:02.000 a juvenile, but I just wondered if he checked any 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.120 and soul murders at that time that might have fit 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:10.560 m oh. I also wondered, um, did he ever come 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:15.320 back to Lina to visit his mother. It's a great podcast, 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.720 thank you. So in the interrogations, Vaughan didn't confess to 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.520 any murders in Lima. He does mention that during that 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.400 time he was arrested um. He says he was arrested 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.199 as a juvenile on a cun running charge. I was 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.840 going on probation in line as a juven I remember, 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.840 I all were you there because there was shiploaded guns. 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.320 I think we was we're shiving like two or three 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.559 hundred guns of money. I don't know what they gave, 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:40.520 but I know they dropped the gun charge because I 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.960 was the kids. Because they wanted to adults. I think 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.320 you a tl but he wanted to a dealt so 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.440 you think you dealt with a t F. I didn't 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.760 deal with him. I think they deal with other part 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:52.440 of the case. They just want to get the kids 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.319 out of the way. I got you because they wanted 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.319 the help. They wanted the people that was actually moving 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.160 in crazy and achievement. Right. What was the name of 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:03.480 the game that was doing old game? They hacked They 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.080 didn't have games. Then. We just had a bunch of 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.559 trades in his white boys. When I hooked up with 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.240 they wanted on some of my classmates, bigger brothers and 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.800 uncles and stuff like that, right, because they've been eyeballing 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.040 them for a while. I don't know if ant F 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.040 gun was they one of them, but I know it 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.599 was a whole, big old mess a valley. Was it 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:27.920 in the favorite No, they kept pretty quiet. They rated 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.000 on two or three houses. We had guns all over 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.880 the place. I remember that, and I was like, Hey, 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.199 told him mom, he's a kid. We don't even want him. 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.200 We got the delts. I know they wanted our guy 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.160 because our guy had the nations to other guy. You 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.720 know what I'm saying. Yeah, they're trying to move up 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:46.880 because I'm one of my best friends. I never speak 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:51.680 to you again, said you brought that trader to us. Really, dude, 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.439 that broke into it, Like I told you, droking to 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.080 his stepfather. I've had all the guns, um, he told 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:02.160 He told him everybody. Essentially, there's a kid he was 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:05.440 friends with. His dad owned a ton of guns, and 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.120 they stole those guns and sold them, and then the 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.160 kid's mom found out, and you know, the the kid 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.760 ended up getting them all in trouble. That's the only 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:17.200 crime he mentions from that time period. But at the 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:19.960 same time, just because he didn't confess any murders doesn't 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:24.679 mean they didn't happen, especially because he wanted the death penalty. Um. 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.720 And he said he didn't want to involve other jurisdictions, 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.640 so he was only going to confess to murders in Indiana. 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.520 So Von would have been in Lima from around seven 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.400 to and according to Hargrove's data set, there is one 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:42.199 unsolved strangulation from this time period. It's a thirty five 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:47.080 year old black woman who was strangled in it's anonymized data, 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.400 so you don't have a name, you don't have a month. 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.480 That makes it hard to find articles about it. But 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:56.240 I did find the Ohio Attorney General's office lists of 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.520 unsolved homicides, and I tried to look it up on 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.400 there and it didn't show up, you know, So I'm 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.400 not exactly sure what that means. It might mean it 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.640 was originally entered into the database is unsolved, but it's 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.840 been solved um sometime later, and that's why it's not 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.840 on this cold case database that the higher Attorney General keeps. 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:19.360 Or it might be that that jurisdiction which isn't actually Lima, 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.880 but it is Fort Shawnee, um, you know. So it 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.600 could be something where the Trinee General asked Evere to 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.120 submit their cold cases. They didn't submit it. Um. So 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.200 if anyone knows anything about the strangulation of a woman 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:39.600 in Fort Shawnee. Um. In, if someone else wants to 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.640 take up this lou thing and tell me what they find, 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:46.760 I'd really appreciate that, alright. So the next message comes 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.480 from Facebook. It's a message from someone who came across 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:54.520 the podcast. They're talking about Vaughan and they say he 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.320 was a door fiend who used to hang out. I 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:00.360 don't know what that means. Door fiend, drug fiend. Um. 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.160 He was a door fiend who used to hang out 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.760 in a crack house off Broadway and forty three. Whenever 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.720 he got high, he tapped into satan. He had a routine. 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.760 He appeared disoriented so that a crack would leave with him. 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.400 After he flashed some money and hit the dope, they leave. 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.000 They were never missed. I told Gary at a recorded 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.400 council meeting about sanitation that they had a serial killer. 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:27.000 He lived off a fifty second. He had been killing women. 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:31.480 His partner is a serial killer too. UM. So this 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.560 person wanted to remain anonymous. I've actually gotten back in 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:38.680 touch with her. UM heard her story. It is pretty wild, 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:42.080 so look forward to that in one of these upcoming episodes. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:48.240 She encountered Vaughan during this period when he was committing 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:50.600 a bunch of these crimes. And some of it seems 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:54.880 to also verify UM information I've gotten from other sources. 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.120 So yeah, alright, here's here's when I've gotten a couple 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:00.360 of times I've gotten a couple of people will ask 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.840 about my accent. I also know the way I talk 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.760 can sound different when I'm in the interviews versus when 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.440 I'm narrating. It is harder than you might think to 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.800 sound natural and keep your voice consistent across the thirty 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:17.080 minute episode. And as for the accent, I grew up 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:20.800 outside DC in northern Virginia. I did live for a 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:22.800 couple of years in Mexico when I was a kid, 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:24.800 you know, around the time I was first learning how 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:28.040 to speak, So some of my speech patterned might come 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:32.400 from that experience as well. Some people have been asking 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.440 for more nuts and bolts information about the algorithm and 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.560 how it works. Uh, if you go back to episode two, 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.640 I think you can get a fuller explanation there. But 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.160 I think it's maybe just people thinking that the algorithm 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.760 is more complicated than it is. Um. The first thing 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.040 it does is it groups together murders based on geography, 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.520 the victim's gender, and the method of killing. There're been 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:56.680 a couple of different versions of the algorithm. I think 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:00.680 the original one also factored in the victim's age. UM. 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:04.080 Now it's simpler and it just focuses on geography, gender, 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.800 method of killing. You know, they they've compiled over seven 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:13.080 hundred thousand homicides mainly from FBI data UM and you 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.280 can then kind of divide those up into a hundred 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:19.520 thousand different groups, right, and so in each one of 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.080 these groups, it will be the same place, all the 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.400 victims will be the same gender, killed in the same way. 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.600 Now you have these a hundred thousand different groups, and 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:33.160 you can rank those by the percentage of murders that 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:37.720 were solved, and you can see which clusters have extremely 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:41.680 low solution rates, right, so where they haven't made an 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.000 arrest or or they at least didn't make an arrest 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.080 at the time that they had entered it into the 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:51.080 FBI's Supplemental homicide reports UM, and you can look for 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.520 clusters that have extremely low solution rates, and you can 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.359 look at that kind of across the entire time period 0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.760 that they have data for, or you can do this 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:05.080 lighting window analysis where you look for a specific time 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:09.440 period where that area had, you know, an extremely low 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:13.919 solution rate for that particular type of murder. Right. And 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.399 one of the explanations for why they might have that 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.400 low solution rate is because there's a serial killer who 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:23.000 is active, who is getting away with multiple crimes and 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.719 making that type of crime harder to solve. So Hargrove 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.119 believes that these clusters that have very low solution rates, 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.040 those are more likely to contain victims of serial killers. 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.320 And that's in part because that's what you see with 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:39.480 the Green River killer, and a lot of the other 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:43.040 clusters that he looked at early on um seemed to 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:47.040 also match that pattern. Um. But this stuff isn't an 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.680 exact science, right, So just because one of these clusters 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.800 has a low solution rate doesn't mean that that area 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.400 necessarily had a serial killer, or that even if they 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:01.120 did have a serial killer active in that area during 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.639 that time period, it doesn't mean that the killer was 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:09.399 responsible for all of the murders in that cluster. Right. So, UM, imagine, 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.080 you know, Vaughan is killing all these people, right, but 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:17.479 it's still very possible that someone else could strangle someone. 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.960 UM in Lake County during that same time period, right, 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.480 and that murder also doesn't get solved, and the algorithm 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:26.639 has no way of separating them, right. So it's not 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:32.080 this magic bullet that only identifies murders by serial killers, 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.960 but but it can kind of flag that they're an 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.800 unusual number of you know, this certain kind of murder 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.600 that haven't been solved, and you know, I think it's 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.080 it's at least telling you that something is going on there. Right, So, 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:48.479 even if it's not a serial killer, why aren't these 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.600 murders being solved? And maybe someone should look into them? 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:53.800 And we're doing a deep dive right now into this 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.040 cluster and Gary, but I imagine that you would find, 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.359 you know, incredibly interesting stories, which I for one of 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:14.639 these clusters you looked into. I've also had some listeners 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:16.919 who are hoping that this would be less of a 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.240 deep dive into Vaughan and you know, this one specific 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.760 case and more more of a deep dive into the 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.080 algorithm and how it and other technology could be used 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:31.000 to find serial killers in different cities across the country. 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.160 So I picked this case in particular because I think 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.880 it's very illustrative of the algorithm's potential. But I am 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:42.639 very interested in exploring clusters and other cities, um, you know, 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:47.360 especially kind of ongoing clusters where you know there might 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.760 be someone out there and an active right now, because 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.359 you know that's that's a place that we could really 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.400 potentially do some good. And I hope on future seasons 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.760 of the show we can do just that. You know. 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.280 An if you're enjoying the show and you're interested in 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.879 there being more seasons of Algorithm that explore other cities, 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:09.399 you know, please tell a friend about the show and 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.159 leave a review on Apple Podcasts. I know I'm always 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:14.439 asking you guys to do that stuff, and you know 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.480 it can feel like a drop in the bucket, but 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.240 when it comes to these companies making a decision about 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:22.480 whether or not to make another season of the show, 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:25.960 h that kind of stuff is really important. Um. And 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.800 also I'm looking for suggestions of cities that you think 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.080 should be investigated. So if you have any ideas, you know, 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:34.720 if you think there's something weird going on where you live, 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:37.840 or you've heard crazy stories about cities that might have 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.240 active serial killers right now, please let me know and 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.560 we can see what the algorithm says and look into it. 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:48.960 I really do appreciate all of you who listened and 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.359 left voicemails or reached out on Twitter. UM, if you 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:55.400 haven't yet, please do. I'm sure we'll have another episode 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.440 like this soon. So you can leave a voicemail at 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:06.480 eight five zero one zo nine. That's five zero one nine. UM. 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:09.760 You can message me on Twitter at b N underscore 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:14.560 KU E B R I c H. That's been underscore Keybrick. 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.399 So we'll be back very soon with some episodes that 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:20.520 are looking into some of the cold cases that the 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:25.600 Algorithm identified and looking into Vaughan's possible connection to those murders. 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.880 This episode was written and produced by me ben Key Brick. 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:35.320 Algorithm is executive produced by Alex Williams, Donald Albright, and 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:40.679 Matt Frederick. Production assistance in mixing by Eric Quintana. The 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:44.159 music is by Makeup and Vanity Set in Blue Dot Sessions. 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:49.480 Thanks to Christina Dana, Miranda Hawkins, Jamie Albright, Rema l 0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:53.080 k Ali, Trevor Young, and Josh Thane for their help 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:53.679 and notes.