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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: The Last Dance, a beautiful young teen cheerleader found dead

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Speaker 2: on a cruise ship. We learned Tonight spotted on video

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Speaker 2: dancing just before her murder, and Tonight does the infantile way.

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Speaker 2: Her body was hidden, covered in life vest and crammed

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Speaker 2: under a bunk, point directly to her killer. Of its

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Speaker 2: claims her family is giving off bad optics that they're

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Speaker 2: more concerned with covering for her stepbrother suspect than about

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Speaker 2: their dead daughter.

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Speaker 3: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to

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Speaker 3: thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: The teen stepbrother is the main suspect in Anna's choke hold.

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Speaker 4: There are so many confusing details about this teak.

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Speaker 5: When is something going to happen, When is there going

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Speaker 5: to be in arrested?

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Speaker 3: When are the answers going to come out?

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Speaker 2: Tonight joining us in addition to an all star panel

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Speaker 2: of experts is the man who captured video of Anna Kettner,

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Speaker 2: the teen cheerleader found stuffed dead. We still don't know

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Speaker 2: whether she was clothed or unclothed, crammed under a bunk

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Speaker 2: on a cruise line. There she is obscured by life vests.

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Speaker 2: And her body there for hours and hours before anyone

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Speaker 2: even notices she's missing.

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Speaker 3: Where were the parents? For Pete's sake?

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Speaker 2: Nobody knows she's not at breakfast, Nobody notices she doesn't

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Speaker 2: turn up for lunch, Nobody checks on her the night before.

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Speaker 2: How long had she been stuffed under that bunk? But

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Speaker 2: we know this, A guy named Nick Gitdons was taking

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Speaker 2: video on the cruise line of a big party the

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Speaker 2: night before, a dance party.

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Speaker 3: And here she is.

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Speaker 2: There is Anna, so happy, so full of life, dancing

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Speaker 2: in a line dance. It's hard to accept she would

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Speaker 2: be dead, her body decomposing on a cruise trip. Anna

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Speaker 2: Kettner the last dance video. Now that is from our

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Speaker 2: new friend Nick Capo. That's Nick Capo six 'h nine

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Speaker 2: on TikTok and he's with us tonight.

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Speaker 3: Nick, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 6: Thank you appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Nick.

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Speaker 3: What happened?

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Speaker 2: How did you manage to take that video?

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Speaker 6: So that was the shunaway party. That's the party to

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Speaker 6: get the crew started when we start selling away from port.

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Speaker 6: It was in port of Miami and you know this

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Speaker 6: is my family. And then also in the video, hotel

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Speaker 6: was becoreing them, but just you know, just going around

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Speaker 6: and paying around saying, you know, you know, showing everybody

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Speaker 6: having a good time and stuff like that. And that's

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Speaker 6: basically what it was.

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Speaker 3: When you took the video.

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Speaker 2: You had no idea that Anna Kettner would be murdered

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Speaker 2: within hours.

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Speaker 3: When did you realize.

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Speaker 2: The video that you took showed her as it's called

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Speaker 2: last Dance.

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Speaker 6: Well, I didn't notice her, and well what happened to

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Speaker 6: after the cruise was over with when I posted I

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Speaker 6: posted the video that day, November second, but it was

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Speaker 6: after you know, everything happened and stuff like that where

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Speaker 6: somebody commented on a video, I mean, on the video

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Speaker 6: and they said that like, oh my god, that's the

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Speaker 6: girl that you know that got killed. And then I

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Speaker 6: went back and watched it. And then when I watched

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Speaker 6: it and I seen her, then I seen the grandma

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Speaker 6: and everything too, and that's why I changed it up

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Speaker 6: a little bit and you know, you know, put the

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Speaker 6: stuff on there. And that's when I, uh, we posted

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Speaker 6: it or uploaded it again to a game where you know,

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Speaker 6: to put attention to it bcently so people are.

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Speaker 2: Seeing and I'm just wondering, what else, if anything does

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Speaker 2: the video show the suspect tonight, still no arrest. Now

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Speaker 2: over seventy five days later.

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Speaker 1: Nothing.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if this video shows anything else of probit

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Speaker 2: to value. In other words, does it prove anything. I

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Speaker 2: wonder if the step brother is anywhere in this video?

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Speaker 3: I wonder if he was there that night. Who was

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Speaker 3: she dancing with?

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Speaker 6: Nick?

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Speaker 3: We've been told she was dancing with her.

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Speaker 1: Grandma, Yes, her grandma.

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Speaker 6: And also it's actually two videos. Was you know the

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Speaker 6: two songs? Says that why I'm seeing a song with

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Speaker 6: them is a cupid shuffle song. I can't remember which

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Speaker 6: one the grandpa was in, but one of them, I

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Speaker 6: don't know, I don't I don't even know what the

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Speaker 6: step brother look like. I don't know if he was

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Speaker 6: in the video or not.

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Speaker 2: And here she is in that second clip that Nick

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Speaker 2: managed to video, dancing, and it shows she's dancing with

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Speaker 2: her Grandparents' this look you know what, Nick Giddons, I

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Speaker 2: am so glad that you took that video and realized

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Speaker 2: what it was and posted it because it shows her

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Speaker 2: Anna keptain her to me in a different light, I mean,

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Speaker 2: really just scrubbed in sunshine. There she is dancing with

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Speaker 2: her grandparents it just precious guys, you were seeing video taken.

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Speaker 2: His handle is Nick Capo six zero nine on TikTok.

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Speaker 2: Nick Giddons joining us tonight.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: You know to Spencer Erinfeld joining us, he's known as

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Speaker 2: the Creuse lawyer. Why because he has taken on giant

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Speaker 2: cruise line industries fighting for his client. Trial lawyer, founder

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Speaker 2: of Aaron Feld trial lawyer's author of a children's book,

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Speaker 2: Sarah Rose Kid lawyer.

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Speaker 3: Spencer, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's amazing how cases are put together, patchwork, patchwork,

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Speaker 2: a bit of information here, a bit of information there,

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Speaker 2: and by the time this turns into an opening statement,

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Speaker 2: it will all be woven into an incredible tapestry, including

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Speaker 2: a time line.

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Speaker 3: What you just saw has been called her last dance.

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Speaker 2: But I find it poignant because she is there living

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Speaker 2: it up with her grandparents.

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Speaker 7: Yes, of course, Nancy. She's on a cruise and she's

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Speaker 7: doing what people on cruises do, which is have fun,

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Speaker 7: and they participate in things like the dancing and the

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Speaker 7: bingo activities and shuffle board, and she's a cruise passenger

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Speaker 7: having fun. Unfortunately, this dream vacation ended in such a

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Speaker 7: nightmare for her and her family. But this is exactly

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Speaker 7: what you'd expect us he saw one doing on a

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Speaker 7: Carnival cruise.

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Speaker 2: And this is no different than any of the other cruises.

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Speaker 2: I mean, some cruises may cost more, or they may

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Speaker 2: go to or less, or they may go to different locations.

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Speaker 2: But everyone fraternizes with everyone, And the point of my

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Speaker 2: assertion is that sometimes it's very hard to It's like

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Speaker 2: a Nitel and Haystack finding that one person that would

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Speaker 2: commit a murder out of three thousand people doing a

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Speaker 2: line shuffle at the.

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Speaker 3: Party that cruise wide party that night.

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Speaker 7: These are fun cruises. Carnival in particular promotes the fun

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Speaker 7: cruise concept. They want everyone to be together, they want

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Speaker 7: big parties, they want a lot of alcohol consumed. They

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Speaker 7: really push the alcohol consumption, and they just want people

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Speaker 7: to have the time of their life and come back

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Speaker 7: and cruise again. The problem is you don't know who

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Speaker 7: the people are that you're cruising with, so you could

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Speaker 7: be cruising and with murderers, child predators, and all sorts

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Speaker 7: of criminals. They let everybody on the ship, so who

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Speaker 7: knows who is in this line dance with this poor

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Speaker 7: young lady.

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Speaker 2: Guys, what we are learning tonight, is that, according to experts,

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Speaker 2: this is her quote last dance and the infantile way infantile,

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Speaker 2: like an infant juvenile. The way her body was disposed

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Speaker 2: of could point directly to the killer.

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Speaker 8: We feel there are some circumstances regarding that the sixteen

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Speaker 8: year old and the mother's judgment regarding that cruise that

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Speaker 8: would affect you know, obviously that her ability to care

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Speaker 8: for the minor child, the nine year old, The sixteen

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Speaker 8: year old was allowed to drink, the teenagers were given

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Speaker 8: their own room in which to stay. Just a lot

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Speaker 8: of circumstances that showed that the mother in this case

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Speaker 8: was not exercising appropriate supervision over this child.

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Speaker 2: Well, Spencer Erinfeld, according to what we were hearing and

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Speaker 2: that family court hearing, and of course the cruise ship

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Speaker 2: says no way. According to what we were hearing, the

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Speaker 2: miners were allowed to drink on the cruise.

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Speaker 3: The cruise ship.

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Speaker 2: Says, no, that would never happen. But did alcohol play

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Speaker 2: into her murder that night? And when I say murder, Erinfield,

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Speaker 2: I mean murder because there is no way she killed

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Speaker 2: herself or had an accident and ended up stuffed under

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Speaker 2: a bunk crammed in with life ves.

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Speaker 7: One hundred percent, Nancy. I've investigated thousands of these cases,

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Speaker 7: and in my thirty five years, alcohol is almost always present,

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Speaker 7: even with miners. Carnival maybe taking the position they didn't

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Speaker 7: serve alcohol to the miner, but that doesn't prevent her

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Speaker 7: from consuming it because there's one hundred and one way

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Speaker 7: so we can get booze on a cruise, even if

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Speaker 7: they bring it on themselves. So it doesn't mean Carnival

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Speaker 7: served it to her necessarily. But I would bet you

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Speaker 7: the toxicology is going to come back with alcohol.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about not just whether or not

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Speaker 2: the teens were served alcohol, which leads me to where

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Speaker 2: were the parents.

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Speaker 3: If they were served alcohol, did that lead to her murder?

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Speaker 3: Did it contribute in any way?

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Speaker 2: This is what we've learned about how this teen cheerleader

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Speaker 2: was found dead.

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Speaker 9: The keptor family frantically searching for anna. Last scene feeling

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Speaker 9: unwell at dinner the night before, when a housekeeper makes

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Speaker 9: a horrifying discovery. The maid starts to gather linens for laundry,

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Speaker 9: but notices the sheet missing off the bed. Making the bed,

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Speaker 9: she notices a pile of life jackets stuffed underneath. Removing

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Speaker 9: the life jackets, she discovers the missing sheet wrapped around

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Speaker 9: Anna's body.

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Speaker 3: My stars too.

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Speaker 2: Michelle Spitzer joining us out of Melbourne, Florida, investigative reporter

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Speaker 2: for USA Today on the case.

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Speaker 3: From the very very beginning. Michelle, thank you for being

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Speaker 3: with us.

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Speaker 2: Describe in depth how Anna Keepner, the tech cheerleader's body

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Speaker 2: was found stuffed under that bunk.

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Speaker 5: Well, what we know about this case has really just

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Speaker 5: come from family. The FBI is being very tight lipped,

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Speaker 5: So the family is really the one who has leaked

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Speaker 5: information here and there and through court hearings, especially with

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Speaker 5: the stepbrothers biological parents. As you know, they're in a

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Speaker 5: custody battle, and there's been a lot of information that

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Speaker 5: has been released in those court hearings. They have not

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Speaker 5: specifically said how her body was found, but as you said,

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Speaker 5: there is speculation that she was found under the bed

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Speaker 5: by someone cleaning the state room. And we do not

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Speaker 5: know what condition her body was found, if she was

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Speaker 5: wearing clothes or not.

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Speaker 3: Sidney s'mner joining US Crime Stories, investigative reporter.

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Speaker 1: What do we know?

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Speaker 4: We've heard conflicting reports, all of this information coming from

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Speaker 4: family members that are secondhand hearing this information from Chris

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Speaker 4: Ketner and Sean tel Hudson. So these conflicting reports were

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Speaker 4: not really sure whether or not Anna was found naked,

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Speaker 4: whether she was wrapped in a blanket, in a sheet.

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Speaker 4: It's all a little bit vague at this point because

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Speaker 4: the FBI has said nothing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, then let me cross examine you very briefly, Sidney Sumner.

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Speaker 2: Would you agree that, by all accounts, Anna Ketner's body

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Speaker 2: was found, Anna was dead stuffed under a bump under

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Speaker 2: one of the beds in the.

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Speaker 3: Room on the cruise ship. Do you agree with that?

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Speaker 6: I do?

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Speaker 2: Okay, Sidney Sumner, let me further clarify. Would you say that,

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Speaker 2: by all accounts, life vest had been crammed under the

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Speaker 2: bed to conceal her body.

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Speaker 4: That's also true.

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University

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Speaker 2: who has an incredible crimpro program. He is an author

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Speaker 2: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He's the star

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Speaker 2: of a hit new podcast, Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 2: but for our purposes tonight. He is a death investigator

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Speaker 2: that has investigated ten thousand death scenes and for some

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Speaker 2: people that's a little hard to.

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Speaker 3: Imagine Joe Scott Morgan, But it's.

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Speaker 2: True because I was asked to count up how many

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Speaker 2: cases I handled. Okay, think about it, about one hundred

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Speaker 2: and eight felonies a week, times four per month, times

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Speaker 2: twelve months times ten years plus it adds up to

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Speaker 2: literally thousands of cases that you and I have both handled.

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Speaker 2: So you as an expert, a forensic expert, a death investigator,

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Speaker 2: has stated that the infantile way in which Anna's body

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Speaker 2: was concealed could point directly to her killer.

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Speaker 10: Explain yourself, Yeah, of course, because this is something that

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Speaker 10: was done spontaneously. If you think about the body covering,

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Speaker 10: this is a matter of convenience. What do I have

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Speaker 10: in my in arms reach in order to conceal the body?

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Speaker 10: And from the infantile perspective, you have deluded yourself the

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Speaker 10: perpetrator or whoever did this the concealment. That is, you

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Speaker 10: have deluded yourself into thinking that, oh, yeah, well, if

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Speaker 10: I put her here, no one will ever find her.

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Speaker 10: And so that goes to that kind of mentality when

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Speaker 10: you begin to think about it. Interesting point here relative

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Speaker 10: to this particular carnival cruise vessel. This is called the horizon,

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Speaker 10: and the Horizon unlike other ships in their fleet, they

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Speaker 10: have life vests that are actually in the state rooms. Okay,

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Speaker 10: so anybody that's ever been on a cruise, they take

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Speaker 10: you through the safety thing and you have to meet

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Speaker 10: at a gathering point and then these things are kind

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Speaker 10: of dispersed to you. In this particular case, someone within

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Speaker 10: arm's reach had access to life veest. So this is

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Speaker 10: going to facilitate the shielding of the body. Covering of

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Speaker 10: the body, and listen, the covering of the body is

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Speaker 10: not necessarily what we refer to as a memorialization of

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Speaker 10: the dead. You'll get that lots of times with perpetrators. No, no, no, no.

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Speaker 10: This is an event where somebody is trying to shield

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Speaker 10: the body so they can get distance from the body

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Speaker 10: and then leave the questions to be answered later. And

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Speaker 10: still to this date, we don't have any answers at

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Speaker 10: this point other than what the OCME down in Miami.

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Speaker 10: The me is saying is her cause of death?

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Speaker 2: Now I agree with everything that you just said, Joe

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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan, but still I need clarification. We often see

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Speaker 2: some of that videos from our friends at Mojo South

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Speaker 2: on TikTok. When we're looking under the bed. When you

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Speaker 2: say bunk, you may think of a bunk bed, one

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Speaker 2: on top of the other. It's more like this in

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Speaker 2: that particular cruise room and Spencer Hinfeld, you're the cruise lawyer.

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Speaker 2: Jump in if you see or hear anything that you

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Speaker 2: can expound upon or correct.

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Speaker 3: You're the cruise expert, not us. Okay, back to you,

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Speaker 3: Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 2: Very often with seasoned criminals, they use whatever's at hand.

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Speaker 2: May it be a it could be a ball, peen hammer,

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Speaker 2: it could be a vase, it could be running somebody

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Speaker 2: down with a care. That does not suggest infantile. A

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Speaker 2: lot of killers use whatever is at hand. But you

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Speaker 2: specifically said the infantile way, infant child, child ish, puerol way.

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Speaker 3: That she was killed and hidden points to a child,

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Speaker 3: a young person. Why did you choose that word? I

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Speaker 3: find it very probative in this case.

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Speaker 10: Okay, who occupies her space? Ken has? Let me ask

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Speaker 10: you this, Nancy, has this eighteen year old young woman

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Speaker 10: developed some kind of enemy on this ship that would

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Speaker 10: drive somebody to what the me? This is the me

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Speaker 10: saying this, what the me is describing as using an

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Speaker 10: armbar across her neck to asphyxiate her. Who on this

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Speaker 10: population the ship is driven to do that. Well, most

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Speaker 10: of the time, as you well know, we look at

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Speaker 10: these violent cases. There are certainly more cases that end

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Speaker 10: up in people's desks that have familial connection than some

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Speaker 10: kind of stranger case where somebody emerges out of the

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Speaker 10: dark shadows because you have relationship issues, you have motivations

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Speaker 10: and all this sort of thing. Well, who's in her group?

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Speaker 10: Who would have access to that state room other than

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Speaker 10: immediate family or maybe a worker. I guess you could

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Speaker 10: say that somebody could have followed her in there. But

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Speaker 10: I got to tell you, Nancy, I'm hearing hoof beats

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Speaker 10: and I'm not thinking camel at this point, Tom, I'm

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Speaker 10: thinking something that is more reasonable here. And when you

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Speaker 10: get her in this position and you have understandably ended

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Speaker 10: her life, Oh my goodness, what in the world do

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Speaker 10: I do. You don't have somebody that's sophisticated enough to think, well,

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Speaker 10: maybe I can kind of wrap her body up, get

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Speaker 10: her over a railing somewhere they're at sea. That's not

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Speaker 10: what happens. They take her body, place her under this

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Speaker 10: rack here and hoping against hope that no one is

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Speaker 10: going to find it. That's what I mean by infantile.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Straight out to doctor Sue corn Bluth, director of clinical Psychology,

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Speaker 2: owner of Doctor Sue and You, author of Building Self

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Speaker 2: Esteem and Children and Teens, and you can find her

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Speaker 2: a doctor Sue and you dot com, Doctor Seue, thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us now. I think Jesscott Morgan

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Speaker 2: explained fully why he a death inveter investigator expert, used

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Speaker 2: the term infantile. I mean, play it out, follow it

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Speaker 2: through to its logical conclusion. You killed the girl, You

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Speaker 2: killed the teen cheerleader, and then.

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Speaker 3: You think, oh my stars, now what am I gonna do?

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'll just hide her under the bed like it

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Speaker 2: with my dirty socks and underwear.

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Speaker 3: Nobody'll ever find her here.

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Speaker 2: Instead of right there, let's see a video of the

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Speaker 2: room again. Right there, you've got a sliding glass door

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Speaker 2: and a balcony. You could throw her overboard and hours

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Speaker 2: would pass.

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Speaker 3: The ship was moving.

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Speaker 2: People may have thought, hey, she fell overboard last night

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Speaker 2: at some point, but no, they were so short sighted

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Speaker 2: that they thought, hey, I'll stick her.

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Speaker 3: Under the bed.

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Speaker 1: They'll never find her.

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Speaker 3: Oh that video from our friends at Mojo South on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: What about it?

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Speaker 3: Doctor Sue, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 11: Think show has a great point here that whoever did

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Speaker 11: this probably was young and panicked and didn't know what

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Speaker 11: to do with the body. And like in a child's mind,

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Speaker 11: what do you do when somebody gets hurt? You hide

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Speaker 11: them or you tell? But if you tell, then you're

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Speaker 11: gonna get in trouble, so instead you hide her under

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Speaker 11: the bed, hoping that nobody is going to find her.

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Speaker 11: I mean, it's very infantile the way that this all

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Speaker 11: went down. And now we're the thing is here, Nancy,

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Speaker 11: do we have proof that her stepbrother did this? That

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Speaker 11: is what is going to be, you know, in my mind,

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Speaker 11: the major component here. But it definitely seems like this

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Speaker 11: was possibly done by somebody that was young or her age.

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Speaker 5: Everybody now asking these questions a step brother being a suspect,

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Speaker 5: what is the truth?

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Speaker 1: Why no charges?

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Speaker 2: Tonight we are learning more about the timeline and so

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Speaker 2: called infantile way that annakt Or the teen cheerleader's body

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Speaker 2: was hidden, points directly to her killer. We are also

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Speaker 2: learning tonight that video does exist. It's only been talked

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Speaker 2: about or speculated upon in the past. Video does exist

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Speaker 2: of Anna Kaptner going alone to her room. Her braces

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Speaker 2: were bothering her. That night at dinner, she goes alone

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Speaker 2: to her room. Video then reveals other family members, the

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Speaker 2: younger brother and the older step brother going into the room.

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Speaker 2: Further video shows the little brother leaving the room alone

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Speaker 2: and then wandering around the ship all by himself for

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Speaker 2: the evening, but Anna doesn't leave the room and the

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Speaker 2: step brother doesn't leave the room four hours. In fact,

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Speaker 2: Anna never leaves the room. To Michelle Spitzer joining us

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Speaker 2: out of Melbourne, Florida, investigator Reporter USA today, what can

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Speaker 2: you tell us about the video.

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Speaker 5: In these court hearings that the stepbrothers biological parents have had,

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Speaker 5: they are the ones who have named their son as

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Speaker 5: a suspect, and his biological mother actually said in text

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Speaker 5: messages that were revealed in court documents, she sent a

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Speaker 5: text message to her ex husband saying, once the autopsy

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Speaker 5: results are revealed, we will see if he is charged,

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Speaker 5: which I think is very telling.

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Speaker 2: Spencer Arnfield trial lawyer called the cruise line lawyer and

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Speaker 2: for a reason, tell me about the abundance of video cameras,

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Speaker 2: surveillance cameras where you at least expect them on the

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Speaker 2: cruise ships.

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Speaker 7: So all the common areas of these ships, Nancy are

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Speaker 7: wired like a casino. They have high definition CCTV footage

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Speaker 7: that will capture with facial recognition software any passenger at

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Speaker 7: any time, anywhere on the ship that's a common area.

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Speaker 7: So for sure they have video that will track Anna

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Speaker 7: from the moment she got on the ship until she

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Speaker 7: was last seen entering her cabin. And they also have

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Speaker 7: electronic key cards that will time whose card was used

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Speaker 7: to get in that cabin at what time, and when

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Speaker 7: the door opened and shuts. They can piece this entire

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Speaker 7: thing together and have a very succinct timeline of what

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Speaker 7: happened to her.

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Speaker 3: Sidney Sumner Our Crime Stories investigative reporter. How old do

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Speaker 3: we believe the little brother is?

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Speaker 4: Anna's biological younger brother is about thirteen years old.

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Speaker 2: And he's going to be a critical witness because he

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Speaker 2: heard a big blowout happening in that cabin after he

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Speaker 2: had been ousted, an argument, an explosive argument between the

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Speaker 2: older step brother and Anna Kepner, Furniture being thrown reportedly

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Speaker 2: at Anna. Where I'm going with this, Spencer erinfield, and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to circle back to Anna's body. Is the

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Speaker 2: little brother twelve or thirteen years old, wandered the cruise

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Speaker 2: ship all by himself the remainder of the evening.

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Speaker 3: He's caught on camera.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's very sad, Nancy. It's not uncommon for parents

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Speaker 7: to turn a blind eye on their kids on these cruises.

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Speaker 7: They get lulled away into the false sense of security

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Speaker 7: that these cruise ships are safe. And I've had many

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Speaker 7: cases with kids of all ages that are walking around

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Speaker 7: unsupervised at all hours of the night on these cruise ships,

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Speaker 7: and they're not safe. It's kind of like letting your

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Speaker 7: child walk around Times Square or New York City at

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Speaker 7: two in the morning. No parent would ever do that,

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Speaker 7: but they seem to do this on cruise ships because

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Speaker 7: they mistakenly believe cruise ships are safer than they really are.

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Speaker 2: Sidney Sumner tell me the timeline when Anna was last

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Speaker 2: saint alive and then when her body was discovered.

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Speaker 3: How many hours passed.

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Speaker 4: Nearly eighteen, Nancy, she was last seen at dinner around

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Speaker 4: six thirty pm the night before, and nobody was alarmed

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Speaker 4: wondering where she was until breakfast the next day around

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Speaker 4: nine am.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: Michelle Spitzer joining us from USA today. Anna Kettner, the

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Speaker 2: teen cheerleader, she was killed by a quote, bar hold

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Speaker 2: something held over her neck and that asphyxiated her, suffocated her.

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Speaker 5: Yes, and that's been a question that's been brought up

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Speaker 5: in the court case, the custody hearing. Where were the

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Speaker 5: parents and the step brother's biological mother. Anna's stepmother has

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Speaker 5: said that she went to bed that evening at seven

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Speaker 5: point thirty and doesn't really know what happened after that,

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Speaker 5: she claims because she was sleeping. But as we've heard,

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Speaker 5: we have video to I'm sure the FBI is investigating

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00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 5: did she leave her room after seven thirty?

443
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: Did she go anywhere?

444
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 5: Did she actually go to bed at seven thirty that night?

445
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: Two?

446
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, forensics professor at Jacksonville State University, You

447
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: know what I'd be doing right now. I'd be looking

448
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: at that big buffet the video.

449
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 10: I'm also going to be interested if she was impacted

450
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 10: by any furniture that was in that room. There would

451
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 10: be evidence of markings on her body, potentially any kind

452
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 10: of contusions, because at that point time, you wouldn't be

453
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 10: getting them to resolve. They'd still be kind of very

454
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 10: pronounced in this short wind of tom. I know we're

455
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 10: talking about eighteen hours, but from a change of body,

456
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 10: the changes that happened in the postmarm context, you would

457
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 10: still be able to appreciate those readily. One more thing

458
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,479
Speaker 10: and I'll shut my mad talk about the arm bar, Nancy.

459
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 10: The arm bar. The arm bar itself is you're taking

460
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 10: You're taking the leading part of your arm. That's why

461
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 10: they call it an arm bar. Okay, And you're compressing

462
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 10: the laynix. This is not like a choke hold where

463
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 10: you're compressing the blood supply to the brain. You know

464
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 10: what would have happened here if you're talking about talking

465
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 10: about an arm bar, you're pressing down literally on the windpipe.

466
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 10: I'm very I'll be very interested to see what the

467
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 10: OCME in their detailed report is noting as far as

468
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 10: trauma to all of the cartilaginous bodies, all of the

469
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 10: cartilage in the trachea, to see if it's been fractured

470
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 10: in any way. And yeah, you can have cartilaginous fractures.

471
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 10: I want to know if that exists, because this is

472
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 10: a very specific diagnosis.

473
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: No one has been charged formally in this case with

474
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 2: the death of Anna.

475
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 3: Kettner, but that said doctor C. Cornblooth. Another thing I

476
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 3: want to find out is what.

477
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 2: Was the step brother, the older stepbrothers behavior in his

478
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: demeanor at breakfast the next morning? Was he stuffing himself

479
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: on the all you can eat breakfast buffet because they

480
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: are notorious. Was he doing that or did the mom say, hey,

481
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 2: what's wrong, you're not hungry.

482
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 3: I want to find out everything.

483
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: Was he sick to his stomach or was it sop

484
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: stand an operating procedure.

485
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 3: Breakfast is usual. I can't wait to find out.

486
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: And you know, we heard Joe Scott saying I want

487
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 2: to find out what she hit by a piece of furniture.

488
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 3: I want to find out was she sex assaulted.

489
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 11: It's a great question, Nancy. You know I've been on

490
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 11: cruises myself. There are big buffis that you know you

491
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 11: just eat whatever you want. But you know, I don't know.

492
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 11: It's a great question. Was he sitting there not eating?

493
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 11: Was he very quiet or was he participating in conversation?

494
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: Also tonight, bad optics are Anna's family members more worried

495
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: about covering up for the step brother than they are

496
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: about the daughter being dead.

497
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 12: Texts submitted as evidence of the custody battle over Chantelle

498
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 12: and Thomas Hudson's youngest daughter revealed the family's attempt at

499
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 12: damage control. In the hours after they're told their son

500
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 12: is a suspect in the stepsister's murder, Chantelle Hudson first

501
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 12: informs her ex Anna is dead and their son may

502
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 12: be involved a whopping thirty two hours after the eighteen

503
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 12: year old's body is discovered. From there, the parents' priority

504
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 12: is protecting their son from scrutiny.

505
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 13: November eight, at seven thirty five pm, Chantell Hudson texts

506
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 13: Thomas Hudson, I need you to call me asap. It's

507
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 13: an emergency. Nearly an hour later, after a shocking phone call,

508
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 13: Thomas Hudson offers to get their daughter away from the situation.

509
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 13: Hudson promises good intentions, and Chantelle Hudson replies that she

510
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 13: appreciates the offer but doesn't think it will help, explaining

511
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 13: she's only told the nine year old her older brother

512
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 13: is having a hard time coping with losing Anna, so

513
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 13: he's getting checked out by the hospital.

514
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: Okay, let me understand what happened to Michelle Spitzer joining

515
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: US investigative Reporter USA today. Michelle, when the stepbrother, the

516
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: older stepbrother, not the younger twelve thirteen year old natural brother.

517
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 2: The older stepbrother, the one that reportedly was throwing the

518
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: furniture room was alone in the room with Anna Kittner

519
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: just before her death, that one when they returned to

520
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 2: Port after her body was found, he.

521
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 3: Went straight to the hospital. Is that correct?

522
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 5: He did go to a facility, is what it was

523
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 5: referred to in court documents. We do not know how

524
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 5: long he stayed there, but by all accounts it was

525
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 5: not long. And then he was released to a relative

526
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 5: and another part of Florida. He did not return back

527
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 5: to Titusville, his home in Bervard County, and has remained

528
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 5: with this relative who now has a guardianship over him now.

529
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: When he was rushed for psychiatric evaluation.

530
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 3: Wasn't that the first time.

531
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: The FBI detectives tried to speak with him, he suddenly

532
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: had to go to the hospital because he couldn't remember

533
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: what happened.

534
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 5: We do believe, we know that the FBI did meet

535
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 5: the cruise ship when it docked important Miami, and as

536
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 5: far as timing on when they were able to first

537
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 5: speak with him. We're not really sure on when that was,

538
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 5: but believe it was pretty shortly after he disembarked from

539
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 5: the cruise ship. And yes, according to court documents, he

540
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 5: has told his mother he does not remember anything from

541
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 5: what happened on the cruise ship.

542
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 13: Sean tell Hudson tells her ex over text that their

543
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 13: son just keeps repeating over and over he can't remember anything.

544
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 13: Chris Kepner's parents say the same thing. The sixteen year

545
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 13: old he cannot remember anything and is clearly distraught. The

546
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 13: boy's step grandparents also say he was unable to speak

547
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 13: the first time FBI detectives try to question him. The

548
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 13: teen has rushed to a hospital for psychiatric evaluation. The

549
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 13: moment investigators allow the family to leave the cruise ship.

550
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: So investigators are trying to speak to him Sidney Sumner,

551
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: and that's when he remember eight this is where I'm going.

552
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: Eighteen hours. Everything's been fine.

553
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: He could walk, he could talk, he dressed himself, he

554
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: went to the breakfast buffet.

555
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: But then the.

556
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: Investigator showed up, and suddenly he can't function. He can't

557
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 2: speak to the FBI and has to be raised for

558
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: a pit hold.

559
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 3: Do I have that right, Sydney Sumner Exactly.

560
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 4: The grandparents' family members say, once they found Anna's body,

561
00:33:55,280 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 4: this teen boy was completely distraught, unable to speak, appearing

562
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 4: to go through some sort of mental episode, and he's

563
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 4: rushed to that hospital for a psychiatric evaluation. The moment

564
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 4: investigators allow them to step off of that cruise.

565
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 2: Ship, Spencer Erinfeld, is he unable to speak because his

566
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 2: stepsister is dead, or because they found the body row.

567
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 7: Right, or maybe Nancy he was sort of invoking his

568
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 7: Fifth Amendment privilege and refused to speak. So I kind

569
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 7: of hope that is what happened, and that he decided

570
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 7: he was not going to cooperate with the FBI and

571
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 7: not speak until he had a lawyer, And maybe this

572
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 7: was an opportunity to create a gap in time.

573
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 3: To do that.

574
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 2: Doesn't he want to find out who killed Anna, his sister.

575
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 7: He also doesn't want to be wrongfully convicted, so perhaps

576
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 7: he was doing the right thing until he had a

577
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 7: chance to speak to a lawyer.

578
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: You know that's crazy because when I've witnessed a car accident,

579
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: for example, I didn't try to leave the scene and

580
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 2: climb up and take the fifth I told the responding

581
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: officer what I saw, So why not saw?

582
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 3: Why not say what happened?

583
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 7: That assumes he saw something maybe he didn't. And I

584
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 7: do want to give this kid the presumption of innocence.

585
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 7: I know there is strong indications that he may not be,

586
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 7: but he does deserve this presumption. And he does deserve

587
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 7: that well.

588
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 3: Of course he and he does deserve to. I appreciate you.

589
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 2: I appreciate you reiterating and giving him the protections, but

590
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: I believe the US Constitution has already done that.

591
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 3: Look around, are you in a courtroom, know you or not?

592
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 2: You're in front of a camera and where you're discussing

593
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 2: the evidence as we know it now. And what I

594
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: know is the family is very concerned about image optics.

595
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 12: Listen, Thomas Hudson's concerned about keeping his son's name private.

596
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 12: Already coming across social media post mentioning the team. I

597
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 12: know everything is supposed to be hush hush for now,

598
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 12: but I've seen that it is still getting out with

599
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 12: posts and comments between Facebook, TikTok and stuff. I just

600
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 12: want to make sure, until things are certain, that he

601
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 12: doesn't get any unnecessary comments towards him.

602
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 13: Sean tell Hudson assures Thomas Hudson she is doing everything

603
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 13: she can to keep their son's name private. Quote everything

604
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 13: that's been posted on TikTok and social media, nobody knows anything,

605
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 13: and everybody's just speculating. Nobody knows anything about him. He

606
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 13: is a minor and has been kept completely out of it.

607
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 13: We have not said anything to anybody, and we are

608
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 13: going to try our best to keep it completely out.

609
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 13: When we talk to the FBI again, we will reiterate

610
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 13: that we do not want his name out there.

611
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

612
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: Let me understand, Scott Morgan. When the family, the bio

613
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: dad and stepmom meet with the FBI, their concern is

614
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 2: protecting the privacy of the.

615
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 3: Step brother suspect.

616
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 2: Why are they saying to the FBI, where's the charges?

617
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: Who did this? What is something totally pass awkwards here?

618
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 10: Yeah, in my opinion it is. I mean, why are

619
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 10: you not climbing up on the rooftops of every home

620
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 10: in your immediate vicinity and screaming I want to find

621
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 10: out who did this to my child? Because Nancy, I

622
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 10: can tell you this, she did not fall down and

623
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 10: strike her neck so that it gives the appearance of

624
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 10: an arm bar. All right, so I want to know

625
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 10: who facilitated this. We talked a lot about CCTV. We

626
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 10: talked about her being visualized. I think that that the

627
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 10: first guest that you had on Nancy with the video

628
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 10: is incredibly powerful there. So you know we have videography here.

629
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 10: What's the hold up at this point in time? Let's

630
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 10: move forward with this. Because Anna is the victim.

631
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 2: The texts between the family are very very concerning to me.

632
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 12: Listen in text, grief for Anna's loss is barely discussed.

633
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 12: Chantelle Hudson describes youngest daughter Brooks, struggling with the loss

634
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 12: and declined to call from Hudson because this is the

635
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 12: first time we will be home without Anna and their son. Otherwise,

636
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 12: the focus lies on their son. Chantell Hudson never mentioning

637
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 12: feelings on her stepdaughter's murder.

638
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: The child is dead.

639
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 2: Anna Kettner is dead, either clothed or partially clothed, stuffed

640
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: under a bed. I don't quite get why the focus

641
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 2: is on protecting the privacy of the step brother as

642
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 2: opposed to apprehending their daughter's killer, Sidney Sumner.

643
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 3: What is happening?

644
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: We don't know.

645
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 4: There has been no word from any investigative agency on

646
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 4: why this pager who is named of the suspect in

647
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 4: these court documents in this custody case is still living

648
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 4: freely with relatives. Because my concern, Nancy, is he's going

649
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 4: to run.

650
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 2: Nick Gitdons came forward and showed us his video from

651
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 2: the cruise video that captured Anna Kettner and her so

652
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: called last dance with her grandparents.

653
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 3: Is it probative, Yes, it is.

654
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 2: It can prove something if carefully analyzed. So if you

655
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 2: know or think you know anything about this case, even

656
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,919
Speaker 2: if you think it is inconsequential, please dial seven five

657
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: four seven zero three two thousand, repeat seven four seven

658
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 2: zero three two thousand. We from an American hero, Deputy

659
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: Sheriff Noah Rainey, Carroll County Sheriff's, Indiana, just twenty nine,

660
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 2: killed in the line of duty, leaving behind his young

661
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: wife and two little boys. American hero Deputy Sheriff Noah

662
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 2: Rainey

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00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 3: Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,