Speaker 1: Yeah, my name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production
Speaker 1: of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render,
Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and looked behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f
Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: as designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: before we jump into the Surrender, I want to tell
Speaker 1: you about meat Eater Gifts. From December six through December
Speaker 1: of all sale orders over fifty dollars on the meat
Speaker 1: Eater store website will be donated to organizations handpicked by
Speaker 1: the team. The organization that I'm gonna donate my portion
Speaker 1: too is Sportsman's Alliance. These guys are guarding the gate.
Speaker 1: They're protecting our rights as hunters, and that is often
Speaker 1: a thankless job, and I want to say thanks to
Speaker 1: Sportsman's Alliance. So if you use the code Clay on
Speaker 1: your meat Eator store purchase over fifty dollars, that money
Speaker 1: will go to them. Also, you'll be able to see
Speaker 1: my top ten picks for gift ideas on the Mediator store,
Speaker 1: which they got all kinds of stuff. They got tethered saddles,
Speaker 1: they got game bags, they got knives, they got t shirts,
Speaker 1: and soon we're gonna have some burglaries. Merch that's coming.
Speaker 1: Check this out, meteor gifts, Merry Christmas. All right, I
Speaker 1: just want you guys to know that, uh, this is
Speaker 1: like a little insider info here, because you guys are
Speaker 1: a whole new crew. You're gonna be heavily scrutinized by
Speaker 1: the regular render people. Okay, so every word you say
Speaker 1: is going to be evaluated. It's gonna be talked about
Speaker 1: amongst the group. So who's usually other render is my wife,
Speaker 1: Mimry Nukam, sharp as attack, will pin you to the
Speaker 1: wall if you get a fact wrong. Brent Reeves, witty
Speaker 1: as they come. Daniel Rupe, I mean that guy. You
Speaker 1: don't want to mess with him. So I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to uh, I'm not trying to scare you, just trying
Speaker 1: to tell you you're gonna be scrutinized because we have
Speaker 1: a new group. Welcome to the Burgary Surrender guys. So
Speaker 1: we have a totally new crew. There's this has only
Speaker 1: happened one other time, So welcome to the Burgery Srender. Man.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to introduce all you guys. So we
Speaker 1: are in northwest Arkansas in the midst of the worst
Speaker 1: white tailed deer hunt that probably have ever had. And
Speaker 1: uh it's been in the seventies every day for Arkansas,
Speaker 1: which is very hot, and we've been hunting. Tomorrow will
Speaker 1: be our fifth day of hunting and we've we've killed
Speaker 1: one dough and one cotton tail rabbit. We won't go
Speaker 1: into the details of who killed these animals, but maybe
Speaker 1: later we will. Now, let me introduce my guest to
Speaker 1: my left, Jared Larson of on X. Jared. It's an
Speaker 1: honored be here, Clay. I'm welcome man. I'm stoked to
Speaker 1: be on the bear Gara surrender and I'm excited about
Speaker 1: talking about the falesome sight. Yeah. As tough as the
Speaker 1: hunting has been this week, me and my cameraman White Cole,
Speaker 1: we're talking. When we crawled out of our stand this morning,
Speaker 1: we've barely seen a deer. And this has been one
Speaker 1: of the funniest weeks in deer camp just because of
Speaker 1: the camaraderie and UH and the entertainment value that the
Speaker 1: boys have brought to YEA. You know what, justin I
Speaker 1: kind of had the same conversation on the way out
Speaker 1: of the woods after basically seeing nothing today, I just said, man,
Speaker 1: it sure seems like we've had a good time. Shouldn't
Speaker 1: we be having a bad time because we have such
Speaker 1: a bad hunt? I mean, why this more? I was like, dude,
Speaker 1: it's already Thursday. And I was like, well, yeah, you're right,
Speaker 1: which usually doesn't happen when you sit for four days
Speaker 1: in a row without seeing deer. Yeah, it's tough. So, Jared,
Speaker 1: what do you so? So, guys, Okay, introductions go slow. Okay,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna take our time here. This is important.
Speaker 1: People are important, Rusty Johnson, Jared, what do you do
Speaker 1: for on X so? I am the white tail marketing
Speaker 1: manager for lack of better term, at on X. Tell
Speaker 1: us what on X is? I mean, most people would know,
Speaker 1: but there's something that wouldn't yep. So on X I
Speaker 1: work on the on X hunt app team, um, and
Speaker 1: we build a GPS mapping app that change your smartphone
Speaker 1: into a functional GPS whether you have service, whether you
Speaker 1: don't have service. Our bread and butter is private landownership
Speaker 1: data um. But it's it's used for a plethora of
Speaker 1: different game species from hunting elk in Washington to squirrels
Speaker 1: in West Virginia. Um, if you like to hunt, heck,
Speaker 1: if you just like to get outside, there is going
Speaker 1: to be value for you in the on X hunt app.
Speaker 1: If nothing else, it keeps you from getting lost. Hey, okay, Rusty,
Speaker 1: if do you ever feel like we're getting punked by
Speaker 1: the cell phone companies and maybe even by these guys
Speaker 1: when we don't have cell service and they can still
Speaker 1: our phones are still GPS? Is right? I mean you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Yeah, that's one of my favorite
Speaker 1: features is the offline no kid and we we have
Speaker 1: a lot of Jared Well, you know, you punch in
Speaker 1: two lines of code to some software engineering and it's done,
Speaker 1: and your phone's GPS. Used to GPS was like a
Speaker 1: big deal. You have to go like buy your own
Speaker 1: GPS and anymore. Not so on X man, good to
Speaker 1: have you, guys. I'm gonna go out of order and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna introduce Zack Sandow. Zack you work for on
Speaker 1: X two. I didn't come to the burgeras rerender. Yes,
Speaker 1: thank you, I'm excited. I've been listening to these since
Speaker 1: the first one. Hey, he really doesn't he pulls up man, Okay,
Speaker 1: if you listen to the Burgeries podcast, Clay nucom knows
Speaker 1: it real quick. I could go through and I could
Speaker 1: tell each one of you guys how many times you've
Speaker 1: listened to it and how many times you have based
Speaker 1: up on basically, like you know how they're tracking you know,
Speaker 1: these companies track people's data. Not I tracked my friends
Speaker 1: data on how much they've listened to the Burgeries podcast.
Speaker 1: And Zack Sandal listens to it because he was pulling
Speaker 1: up little facts from the Boon podcast like weeks ago.
Speaker 1: He was like, man that when Dan Boone did that.
Speaker 1: I was like, you really listen, don't you? And he
Speaker 1: was like yeah, so honestly for me, like it's when
Speaker 1: it first came out. We work with you anyways. But
Speaker 1: the storytelling of it was sweet. And I do a
Speaker 1: lot of drives hunting season, Like when I'm driving across state,
Speaker 1: it's the perfect thing to listen to a good mix
Speaker 1: up from the trick aditional podcast, especially in the hunting industry.
Speaker 1: I mean it was easy, like I just had him.
Speaker 1: I download four or five of them and listened to
Speaker 1: him on a full trip there and back, and so
Speaker 1: it was always great but yeah, no, I'm pumped. I'm
Speaker 1: pumped talking about this one. Um myself, I've worked it
Speaker 1: on X for six years now. I managed the Hunt team,
Speaker 1: work with marketing team, and then the folks. We have
Speaker 1: a you know, awesome team in our company as well.
Speaker 1: You know, we have our Hunt product, that's our baby,
Speaker 1: that's what got us started. But now we have an
Speaker 1: off road product, and then we also have backcountry products.
Speaker 1: So we've growned quite a bit since Jared and I
Speaker 1: first started. There was thirty two people when I started,
Speaker 1: and what was it like fifty sixty when Jared started,
Speaker 1: And we're much much bigger than that now four and
Speaker 1: half and six years later, so it's been really cool.
Speaker 1: Now you're originally from Montana, yep. I was born and
Speaker 1: raised in Missoula, Montana. So the home office is yeah,
Speaker 1: that's cool. Yeah, and now Jared, you're from Wisconsin. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: White Tails, White Tales. So to your left, Jared is
Speaker 1: my buddy, justin MI show, justin Welcome to the Burger's
Speaker 1: your intermat buddy. I feel like I've been on this
Speaker 1: just by hanging in a tree with you. Yeah, we've
Speaker 1: had a podcast going for five days. I talked Justin's
Speaker 1: ear off and together, just NonStop chatterbox. I learned a
Speaker 1: lot from you, man. So Justin, Justin went to Canada
Speaker 1: with me this year and filmed, and then he's been
Speaker 1: with me this whole week in film. We didn't know
Speaker 1: each other before that though, so back in September when
Speaker 1: we first met, and we've had a great time. Justin
Speaker 1: is extremely talented and good at what he does. Let
Speaker 1: me just tell you if you're if you're needing a
Speaker 1: I better not say this. People from other companies might
Speaker 1: listen to this. If you're going on fighting Mark Me
Speaker 1: and Mark Kenyan fight over Justin when we're tree stand
Speaker 1: white tail hunting because he's the man. So no, Justin's
Speaker 1: really good photographer, really good videographer, really good to have
Speaker 1: hanging in a tree with you in A good white
Speaker 1: tail hunter too, So I go to him for advice
Speaker 1: what you wish would do. Justin hadn't worked too much
Speaker 1: this week, but yeah, you know sent control, so sent control,
Speaker 1: that's right, that's right. Now. I'm kid. You're from New York, yes,
Speaker 1: not originally of kids, South Carolina. So I feel like
Speaker 1: with these accents that are flying around here, I feel
Speaker 1: a little bit like I'm at home. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: because all the Yankee accents. No, no, no, no, you guys,
Speaker 1: the Arkansas boys. It feels like South Carolina. You guys
Speaker 1: got the same Southern flair. And I was just the
Speaker 1: gas station. They had fried chicken by the register. I
Speaker 1: knew I was in the right place. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: got a lot of kids, not a lot. Three three
Speaker 1: kids are all great. To your left, to Justin's left,
Speaker 1: my old buddy, Rusty Johnson, how's it going, man, It
Speaker 1: is going good. I'm glad to be here finally sharing
Speaker 1: a camp with Clay nuclem Man. Rusty and I have
Speaker 1: known each other since two thousand seven when I killed
Speaker 1: a deer and you were an official pope and Young Score. Yeah,
Speaker 1: looked you up. However, we found Pope Young Scores back then,
Speaker 1: probably on the internet and uh, you know it's probably
Speaker 1: in like a Yellow Pages book. It's probably like that
Speaker 1: long long time ago. Yeah, but no, it's it's been
Speaker 1: fun hunting with this week. Yeah, yeah, it's been a joy.
Speaker 1: We've had a blast. Yeah. What what do you think
Speaker 1: about all this? This has been like ridiculous, hadn't Oh man,
Speaker 1: this is probably the hottest and probably hardest hunt I've
Speaker 1: ever had this time of year here in Arkansas. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's is so unusual. I can't I don't know that
Speaker 1: we've broke records, but it would surprise me if we didn't.
Speaker 1: Seventy six degrees on September or December two unreal. So, uh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go around here in a minute and talk
Speaker 1: about Rusty. But to you or left, we got we
Speaker 1: got a couple of guys that aren't don't have headsets
Speaker 1: that are here. We'll go back to them. But to
Speaker 1: your left is your son, Rustin Johnson. What's going on?
Speaker 1: How are you doing? Man? I'm doing really good. When
Speaker 1: I met Rusting, he was just a little, just a
Speaker 1: little dude. I was still chubby, but I was a little. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I taught you resting six three. If six three and
Speaker 1: you're you're you're not h You're not exactly petite at
Speaker 1: six at six three, man, I'm anywhere between three and
Speaker 1: four hundred pounds. It depends on what time of year,
Speaker 1: if I'm in hibernation or not. Oh man, well, you
Speaker 1: guys are so fun to watch. Father and son team.
Speaker 1: How are you? And your dad turned fifty just a
Speaker 1: few days ago at camp. Just turn it's been because
Speaker 1: he looks young for his age. He does. It looks good,
Speaker 1: clean living man. We'll talk about rusties. Uh. We want
Speaker 1: to get a hunter to talk a little bit about rusties. Uh.
Speaker 1: Hunting style. But so the other guy that's here, it's hunter,
Speaker 1: rude Hunter, you're where are you from? I'm from Southeast Minnesota,
Speaker 1: Southeast Minnesota, and you've been hunting with Rusty Johnson all week?
Speaker 1: Give us Okay, what are you going to tell people
Speaker 1: about Rusty when you go back home next week? When
Speaker 1: you talk about his white tail hunting, his eccentricities, all
Speaker 1: these things would describe him to us. He loves hunting
Speaker 1: white tails more than anybody on this earth, like there's
Speaker 1: no argument against it. And he spends more time in
Speaker 1: a tree than anybody. I mean, his straight up tactic
Speaker 1: is get a picture of a buck and then just
Speaker 1: go sit in the tree and wait for him to
Speaker 1: come back. It's real simple. Just spend as many hours
Speaker 1: in a tree as you possibly can, even if it's
Speaker 1: three hours before sunrise. I mean we've been waking up
Speaker 1: at like, well he wakes up at like I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been in about and I come downstairs and he's
Speaker 1: sitting in the kitchen, fully dressed, waiting. We were joking
Speaker 1: this morning, um Hunter. Hunter was real proud of himself
Speaker 1: because on day three he felt like he'd woke up
Speaker 1: before Rusty and was gonna be ready. Because the first
Speaker 1: day Rusty said, we're truck is rolling out at four o'clock,
Speaker 1: and the guys like woke up Hunter at like three
Speaker 1: fifty seven. It was four o'clock. It was four o'clocks
Speaker 1: and I was going out the door at four or three.
Speaker 1: That's pretty good. Yeah, And then and then so a
Speaker 1: couple of days later, he's like, Okay, I've been trained
Speaker 1: by Rusty. Now I'm gonna beat Rusty down the stairs
Speaker 1: and he cut. He walks in, He flips on the
Speaker 1: lights and there's Rusty sitting waiting, sitting in the darkest
Speaker 1: like I'm tapping his foot very impatiently, like like looking
Speaker 1: at like trucks running, everything's ready to go. It's just like, man,
Speaker 1: this dude loves it, and you can't get enough. And
Speaker 1: you've been sitting long days. Yeah, we've been doing all
Speaker 1: day sits. And I mean, like, well, we get down
Speaker 1: and switch trees, but you're still in the woods all day,
Speaker 1: but it'll be like seventy five degrees. And this dude
Speaker 1: is like one might just walk by at noon and
Speaker 1: you know, even though you know he might get thirsty.
Speaker 1: Me and Justin. It was actually Justin's idea. So today,
Speaker 1: so we have this group text thread going, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, it turns out I'm kind of in the
Speaker 1: lead on like the point system we have going here.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't I wouldn't gonna mention who killed the deer
Speaker 1: and the rabbit, but Justin. So we decided we were
Speaker 1: gonna get down at like ten o'clock this morning, and
Speaker 1: what I was gonna say about Justin. We're coming back
Speaker 1: to rusty, but I'm gonna talk about Justin. Justin every
Speaker 1: single day at about eight thirty starts talking about sausage,
Speaker 1: gravy and brutal and he'll start, He'll start like glaring
Speaker 1: into my eyes and kind of lean for ward and go, man,
Speaker 1: some flaky biscuits and some sausage gravy eggs, eggs, buttery eggs,
Speaker 1: and he sees it works on me. I kind of
Speaker 1: started to soften up a little bit. And so we go,
Speaker 1: we get down and he said, I said, well, maybe
Speaker 1: it was my idea. It was your idea. You go
Speaker 1: to throw me under the bus, and I was gonna
Speaker 1: stay there, but I said, I'll tell you what. Let's do.
Speaker 1: Let's go to the town over here, twenty miles me,
Speaker 1: you and Zach because Zach was hunting with us. Let's
Speaker 1: get a big country breakfast and get back to camp.
Speaker 1: About you know, twelve thirty one o'clock, everybody's gonna be
Speaker 1: wondering where we're at. And what were you gonna say?
Speaker 1: Justin we've been hitting the herd? Were you you were
Speaker 1: gonna say anything could happened? Because anything you happen to happen,
Speaker 1: you gotta be out there. But he was mocking Rusty
Speaker 1: what Breasty would say, So it was really funny. We laughed,
Speaker 1: We laughed. We didn't get breakfast. So I don't think
Speaker 1: that food trick would work on my dad, Rusty. He
Speaker 1: doesn't eat like at all during deer season. You know.
Speaker 1: The first day I sat with him, I was monitoring that,
Speaker 1: and uh, he ate a Hershey's Kenny bar with the
Speaker 1: nuts in it, and that's like his go to drink
Speaker 1: one bottle of water at noon. He ate a granola
Speaker 1: bar and that was it. All day said all day. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: I'm on like your three thousand calories. And there was
Speaker 1: also a rumor going around the camp the first day
Speaker 1: that like in an all day sit like setting across
Speaker 1: from you, you're filming them. He said like ten words. Uh.
Speaker 1: Kind of warmed up later in the week, Yeah, we did.
Speaker 1: Like day three, we talked about beaver chapping. We got
Speaker 1: really close after that, but that that was like two
Speaker 1: minutes two minutes max. I mean we're in there to
Speaker 1: kill a deer, you know. Yeah, I mean you can't
Speaker 1: kill a deer if you're talking. Well, that's not necessarily
Speaker 1: strange that this strange that, Yeah, like out of the team,
Speaker 1: Nukeamshoe is winning. I mean we've been passing the last
Speaker 1: couple of days, pass them if they're a hundred thirty yards.
Speaker 1: Were at about ten you were saying brown, it's down.
Speaker 1: I mean, Rusty has high standards. Now, what I did
Speaker 1: learn about Rusty on this on this trip, you get
Speaker 1: like anxiety before a hunt, like excitement anxiety. Absolutely, talk
Speaker 1: to us about that can help you. Well. When I
Speaker 1: wake up, I mean I'm so worked, I don't get
Speaker 1: much sleep, you know, when I'm hunting like this, and
Speaker 1: when I wake up in the morning, I have this gag.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just start gagging because I'm I've got
Speaker 1: so much excitement and I'm so ready to go. I mean,
Speaker 1: it just it's the anxiety. I mean, it's just I'm
Speaker 1: so excited about often would you say you feel that
Speaker 1: much excitement slash anxiety about a white to hunt? Every
Speaker 1: day that I go, I hear the puke and every
Speaker 1: time see I'm still like asleep, but he wakes me
Speaker 1: up about to leave and he's puking. Dagon. This is
Speaker 1: after four days. I've done this for years. I've just
Speaker 1: I mean, I love it so much that it just
Speaker 1: it just gets to me. I don't know what it Dared,
Speaker 1: What do you think about this? It blows my mind,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, I love white tail hunting. Um, but
Speaker 1: Rusty getting up like a full solid two hours before
Speaker 1: everybody else in camp. I mean the fact that he
Speaker 1: sits in the dark, drinking coffee, waiting for his camera
Speaker 1: like he is beyond the next level. And I will
Speaker 1: echo Hunter's sentiment that throw some names out there that
Speaker 1: might like white tailed deer hunting as much as Rusty Johnson.
Speaker 1: And let's put him in the camp together. Let's see
Speaker 1: my money's on Rusty, like whatever it is. You snapchat
Speaker 1: at me earlier this week and the you had the
Speaker 1: little temperature gage on it was sixty seven and it
Speaker 1: was like one pm. You had the time stamp on there,
Speaker 1: and you said, we're sitting in a food plot waiting
Speaker 1: for one. And I just was dying because the rest
Speaker 1: of us were sitting in camp eating sandwiches and you're
Speaker 1: playing justin. They were shocked, pouch and one out. Yea,
Speaker 1: that could be true. Rusty was sitting on a food
Speaker 1: plot in seven December one waiting not a big one.
Speaker 1: We've seen a big one, big spike Minnesota eleven point
Speaker 1: as you've northern Minnesota eleven Okay, we would have had
Speaker 1: a big one down. But I was in school for
Speaker 1: most of the time. This is the first day I've
Speaker 1: got the hunt. Yeah. Yeah, I've been hitting the books. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Rusting is in law school. Yeah, shock of the camp.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've known this for years, but you look
Speaker 1: like a lawyer. I'm in my last year law school.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've been in school forever. But it's going.
Speaker 1: That's awesome, man, that is almost to the finish line.
Speaker 1: I couldn't know a guy like that. Just get trouble,
Speaker 1: you know, never know. Hey, the guy that I haven't
Speaker 1: introduced yet, it's Dalton, Dalton. How's it going? Man? Awesome? Man,
Speaker 1: it's awesome to be hard to say about Rusty. You
Speaker 1: know Rusty, but as well as anybody. There's huge pros
Speaker 1: and cons to hunting with Rusty, and I think the
Speaker 1: guys have touched it pretty good. The only negative to
Speaker 1: hunting with Rusty is you start questioning how much you
Speaker 1: actually like to deer hunt. Like that's the best way
Speaker 1: I can describe it. You think that you love hunting,
Speaker 1: and you get hyped up. I sat with this guy
Speaker 1: for thirteen days in Kansas, so we we hunted thirteen days.
Speaker 1: I think the first five we don't know that we
Speaker 1: saw a deer. We hit it terrible timing. We had
Speaker 1: to make adjustments. And he's not joking. Every single morning
Speaker 1: that light came on at to thirty in the morning.
Speaker 1: I don't set alarms when I stay with him anymore
Speaker 1: because the dry heating wakes, the dry heating will wait.
Speaker 1: So this is verified by multiple sources. Yeah, you don't
Speaker 1: even set alarm. You might just you may want to
Speaker 1: get that checked out, buddy, But that's incredible. Thou mean
Speaker 1: it's December, right, It's December on one of the hardest
Speaker 1: times we've been on UH in years, and he's still
Speaker 1: he's that way every single time. And you killed a
Speaker 1: big buck. You've killed two good bucks this year, have Yeah,
Speaker 1: And he killed a big one in public Land I
Speaker 1: did a week ago. Yeah, I'm I'm excited about that one,
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm also a little bit sad about it
Speaker 1: because that's a buck that Rustin was chasing. He hunted
Speaker 1: his butt off for that buck, and I go in
Speaker 1: there in two days and knocked him down. But sorry,
Speaker 1: but that's just that. Yeah, that's it's a really nice uh.
Speaker 1: It's the biggest eight point I've ever killed. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I've killed some pretty good eight points. Well, I asked
Speaker 1: him about his last biggest eight point because I also
Speaker 1: had that one on Cameron was hunting it and then
Speaker 1: he goes in there and kills it. Yeah he didn't
Speaker 1: Yeah last year. That's nice, but I kind of set
Speaker 1: him up on it, so I was happy that he
Speaker 1: did it. Yeah. You know, talking about Rusty liking to
Speaker 1: hunt so much, I identify with that because I remember
Speaker 1: before I got into the outdoor industry. I remember seeing
Speaker 1: all these guys in the outdoor industry and the problem
Speaker 1: with comparing people to people in an event, where like
Speaker 1: in sports, you know, you can compare like stats, you know,
Speaker 1: like how many points did he score? How many points
Speaker 1: did he score? We got to scored more points is better.
Speaker 1: The problem with hunting is that it's not like that
Speaker 1: at all, not not even remotely like that. And nor
Speaker 1: is there any reason really why we would compare one
Speaker 1: hunter to another hunter, but what we do all I
Speaker 1: remember when I was not in outdoor industry at all,
Speaker 1: and I remember having a thought, I'm not I don't
Speaker 1: need to be the best hunter. I don't. I'll never
Speaker 1: be the best hunter at what I do. But I
Speaker 1: remember thinking it is not possible to love hunting more
Speaker 1: than I love it, and that validated me as a
Speaker 1: young man. I'm not saying my the way I would
Speaker 1: express that would be different than you would, but I'm
Speaker 1: saying that is a valuable, valuable that's a gift man
Speaker 1: to be passionate about something. Man. When I meet people
Speaker 1: that are not passionate about something, I don't understand that
Speaker 1: person to be passionate about something is a gift man,
Speaker 1: and as long as it doesn't control your life in
Speaker 1: a negative way, there are things that we can get
Speaker 1: into that like distort us and make us kind of
Speaker 1: screwed up as humans. I don't see that inside of
Speaker 1: your world. Rusty has a strong family, He's got a
Speaker 1: he's he's a great husband, he's a great father, and
Speaker 1: so like this hasn't messed you up because it messes
Speaker 1: people up, it does, you know what I'm saying. I
Speaker 1: mean you can, you can. You can take something to
Speaker 1: an extreme where maybe maybe the guy is like so,
Speaker 1: you know, so performance oriented that the rest of his
Speaker 1: life is a wreck and or my whole hunting career,
Speaker 1: I've been interested in being as passionate as I could
Speaker 1: be and being the best that I could possibly be
Speaker 1: while maintaining balance inside of my life because I knew
Speaker 1: that for white till a deera only means so much,
Speaker 1: but it means a tough and when you have a
Speaker 1: big world that it fits inside of kind of a context.
Speaker 1: If I could say that way, and I see that
Speaker 1: with you in Rusting, Yeah, and it and it was
Speaker 1: passed along from from my side. Yes, yeah, your dad
Speaker 1: I's one of one of the best hunters that I know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean he don't hunt much anymore. You know, he's
Speaker 1: getting older now, but uh, I mean he he is.
Speaker 1: I learned everything that I know from him, and he
Speaker 1: is one of the best hunters that I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: And see the first time I ever met you, you
Speaker 1: were with your dad, and I recognize that you and
Speaker 1: your dad had a really strong relationship. And uh, he
Speaker 1: was an official score to just like you are. You
Speaker 1: guys know what we do on the Burgary Surrender? We
Speaker 1: have to Uh, is there anything else we should come? Well,
Speaker 1: I think I want to go around and have you
Speaker 1: Peggan number on how many Burgeries episodes that we've all
Speaker 1: listened to. Oh sure, because yeah, you said you said
Speaker 1: you were pretty dialed, No problem, Um, we sat over under.
Speaker 1: This is totally this is totally going off. Just uh,
Speaker 1: this isn't like data that I have like behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: This is just me interacting with you and this is
Speaker 1: your intuition. I would say Jared has probably listened to
Speaker 1: seventy of them. Justin's listened to five. Rusties listened to
Speaker 1: about five percent or five five total total episodes. Rusties
Speaker 1: listened to one. Probably Dalton's listened to three, Rustin is
Speaker 1: listened to probably eighty percent of them, maybe in the ballpark, ballpark,
Speaker 1: maybe a little a little bit lower. I'm a busy guy,
Speaker 1: i'd say, okay, so off, yeah, well, I'm in law school,
Speaker 1: got United outdoors and fireside apparel. Your recollection of the
Speaker 1: ones you did worked, And Zach, you probably listened to, oh,
Speaker 1: justin showing me as deal? Do you see this? These
Speaker 1: are your top three? So you've listened to more than five?
Speaker 1: Are offending tomorrow? And Zach, how many of you listen
Speaker 1: to that? I don't know. I was trying to think
Speaker 1: of that. I think you have what thirty two episodes?
Speaker 1: Thirty episodes? I would say I'm over twenty for sure.
Speaker 1: I don't know where I'm at, you know, like seventies
Speaker 1: and I can't say, okay, now tell me how I did. Uh.
Speaker 1: You were proudly I'm proud about If there were thirty episodes,
Speaker 1: I've probably been at that you were in the realm.
Speaker 1: I was impressed. Okay, I was off on Justin just nah,
Speaker 1: but you were exactly correct. And I listened to it today.
Speaker 1: But after listening to it, I locked it and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna start listening to him. Dalton, I think
Speaker 1: I'm exactly three. Actually you said three, Okay, I think
Speaker 1: it's exactly three. Okay, I don't know. Yeah, you should
Speaker 1: give a little spiel about I mean, I think the
Speaker 1: hunt could be summed up. I hadn't seen much for
Speaker 1: the first three days. The last two days, he's been
Speaker 1: in the game. In the game. I am in the game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he uh yeah, those first two or three days were terrible, terrible.
Speaker 1: But then uh, we moved over here to this new
Speaker 1: area and well lots first, Uh Clay nucom here just
Speaker 1: wrangling private permission. Yeah, we need to start. We need
Speaker 1: to start from the beginning. We came here to hunt
Speaker 1: public land in Arkansas, bow hunt public land starting on
Speaker 1: remember twenty nine. We gotta give credit to Rusty Dalton
Speaker 1: and Rustin from United Outdoors for spending I don't know
Speaker 1: how many hours in boot miles to scout and have
Speaker 1: you know, some ideas laid out for us. But Mother
Speaker 1: Nature came in this same week last year. It was
Speaker 1: on fire. Remember that you were texting me from the
Speaker 1: tree stay And what's cool. What was cool about this
Speaker 1: for me is this is a place that I used
Speaker 1: to hunt but had not hunted it probably it's two
Speaker 1: thousand five, So that that's kind of the overarching thing.
Speaker 1: And then we we got permission on a big piece
Speaker 1: of property over here just for the days we're here.
Speaker 1: Just kind of random deal. We ran into somebody they
Speaker 1: happen to have a big piece of property and they
Speaker 1: happen to let all of us bow hunt it. And
Speaker 1: it's it's a really good piece of property. I mean,
Speaker 1: the fantastic piece. Just the weather and timing is still
Speaker 1: really tough. But Rusty is on one. Tell us your
Speaker 1: story now, Well, I got lucky. You know. We kind
Speaker 1: of all dispersed and kind of spread out, and Clay
Speaker 1: kind of told you where to go, and Clay dropped me,
Speaker 1: dropped me a pen, and so that's where me and
Speaker 1: Hunter went. I got lucky. Yeah, that's kind of what
Speaker 1: I had in the back of my mind. He was
Speaker 1: guard holding me. But anyway, it turned out really good.
Speaker 1: I mean, we saw a lot of deer. We saw
Speaker 1: a really nice eight point come out, grunted him into
Speaker 1: the base of the tree. We decided to let him
Speaker 1: go by everybody else we saw. We saw we saw
Speaker 1: a nice little six point spike. We saw a lot
Speaker 1: of dose over twenty dough. I lost count of how
Speaker 1: many those we saw. So uh we noticed where they
Speaker 1: come out of the woods and uh, right at last light, Uh,
Speaker 1: hunter said, here comes a deer down the fence line.
Speaker 1: He said, I think it's a small buck. So I
Speaker 1: put my binoculars up and I said no, I said,
Speaker 1: that's a shooter. So I mean, we were running out
Speaker 1: a light really fast, and he got into about fifteen
Speaker 1: yards and he smelled us and he started snorting, but
Speaker 1: he wasn't moving anywhere. He would just stomp his foot
Speaker 1: and he was snort. And I just need him to
Speaker 1: take a couple of private lab at cheer bucks man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: two steps, that's all I needed for him to, you know,
Speaker 1: to get in an opening. And he stood there, he
Speaker 1: stood there. We were losing light, losing light. He finally
Speaker 1: took those two steps. I come to full draw. I
Speaker 1: could not see my pen in the peach side. So
Speaker 1: it was game over at that time at that time,
Speaker 1: so I just let my draw down on and we
Speaker 1: just sat there and he finally he'sed off. So we
Speaker 1: made another play on him tonight, and we again misjudged
Speaker 1: where he was going to come out, and uh, we
Speaker 1: saw him again and he got within fifty yards and
Speaker 1: I actually draw it on him. And again it was late,
Speaker 1: low light. I couldn't see my pin and my peep.
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have took that shot anyway.
Speaker 1: I mean, forty is about my max nowadays. When I
Speaker 1: was younger, I might have shot a little further. But
Speaker 1: so he eased off. So we got one more day
Speaker 1: to make another play on him, and I feel confident
Speaker 1: if he does what he did today, then we might
Speaker 1: have a shot at him. I'm hoping keep my fingers crossed.
Speaker 1: You know, we're all rooting for you man. We need
Speaker 1: some excitement around here. I believe this Dear's would bring
Speaker 1: some excitement to the camp. I mean, hey, he's a
Speaker 1: really good both. I think a spike another rabbit tomorrow
Speaker 1: would bring I think you're right, that's not a noverally
Speaker 1: true statement. The excite and level has never wavered. I
Speaker 1: mean there's been positivity and a lot of chatter going on,
Speaker 1: so you know, it would just be some nice icing
Speaker 1: on the cake to come through in the fourth quarter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's be careful not to start any rumors. Deer hunting
Speaker 1: is terrible. Turkey gutting is terrible. Might as well go
Speaker 1: to Missouri. Yeah, I'm kind of starting hunt in Oklahoma.
Speaker 1: So Oklahoma hunting is terrible too, So don't go there. Uh,
Speaker 1: justin What do you think of this hunting? You've you
Speaker 1: hunt it all over the country. Really it's tough, man.
Speaker 1: I mean again, I feel like you can't get past
Speaker 1: the barrier of it being seventy five degrees in December.
Speaker 1: I mean, you told me on the phone when we
Speaker 1: first talked about this trip, that's gonna be tough. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't imagine it being like this, But I mean
Speaker 1: it was cool to go in. You know, we got
Speaker 1: a mile back in from the truck in some series
Speaker 1: terrain coming you know, from New York and making judgments
Speaker 1: on how where to sit based on like food and
Speaker 1: things like that. It's just like, there's no food here.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you how these deer survive. I
Speaker 1: have no clue and three days to find deer poop.
Speaker 1: They don't. They don't poop. I've been intrigued at like
Speaker 1: because I'll say to you and like I we're looking
Speaker 1: at the map, I'm like, where's the food? Like where
Speaker 1: Why would these deer get up from one spot like
Speaker 1: they should just lay there and die. There's no now
Speaker 1: besides for no food, there's like baseball and softball size
Speaker 1: rocks underneath, like four inches. The leaves rock ankle busters,
Speaker 1: so if they move to try to find food, they
Speaker 1: break their their ankles. So it sucks to be a
Speaker 1: deer here, and that's probably why we're not around. And
Speaker 1: every treat, if you decide to get up, Rusty will
Speaker 1: kill you. He's got so many drunk cameras out he
Speaker 1: knows when every deer in this county stands up. Yeah. Man,
Speaker 1: Well while we're sitting here, you know, our shirts hanging
Speaker 1: off in like swimsuit weather, I'm getting photos of deer
Speaker 1: back home. So as soon as we can wrap this up,
Speaker 1: there's I see actual food on these cameras, that deer eating.
Speaker 1: It's good, I mean. But like I was saying, we
Speaker 1: went back in a mile from the truck, and obviously
Speaker 1: at home too. You have to pick bots based on
Speaker 1: terrain and movement. And like you know, we sat and
Speaker 1: again it felt like nowhere Ville. For two nights or
Speaker 1: two SIPs saw a deer. The first night they were
Speaker 1: just had a range um. And then the next morning
Speaker 1: we sat and man, the only deer we saw, I
Speaker 1: ended up on your back. I want to talk about that,
Speaker 1: I rusty. I don't know if I told you the
Speaker 1: whole situation with that dough man. Let me say as well,
Speaker 1: I was absolutely thrilled to go back in where we
Speaker 1: did and kill that deer. I hunted back in there
Speaker 1: when I was in college. I think about that spot
Speaker 1: to this day. A fall doesn't go by where I
Speaker 1: don't think about that spot back there where I took
Speaker 1: Justin Yeah, because it was when I cut my teeth
Speaker 1: bow hunting over here. I mean, I left Gary Newcomb's
Speaker 1: camp Camp Newcomb and was flushed out on my own,
Speaker 1: you know. And I found that spot on topo map
Speaker 1: before on X when we actually went to the store
Speaker 1: and bought a big three by three topo map. But
Speaker 1: I hadn't been back there. I just moved, have done
Speaker 1: other stuff, you know. So to go back in there
Speaker 1: and even just to kill a dough thrilled. I'm serious.
Speaker 1: That's the highlight of my season. I've killed three pretty
Speaker 1: good bucks. I told Justin As there's a one of
Speaker 1: my arrows is still in a tree over there. Somewhere
Speaker 1: because I missed a deer up there at like forty
Speaker 1: yards in my area, stuck in a tree, and I
Speaker 1: just left it there for the anthropologists in ten thousand
Speaker 1: years when I was in school years ago, and uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be. But I want to talk about this
Speaker 1: dough real quick. This dough came in. We were up
Speaker 1: just under thirty ft we were. We were real high,
Speaker 1: because that's the way you beat a deer's nose. Boys
Speaker 1: get up real high. Passed all the way around us,
Speaker 1: and actually dropped down into the kind of head of
Speaker 1: this hollow. And I was hanging as absolutely far to
Speaker 1: the left as you could in a tree saddle. I've
Speaker 1: got my feet like you know, just like on this
Speaker 1: side of my platform, and I'm just like hanging off.
Speaker 1: And this deer steps out to thirty yards and I
Speaker 1: knew it because I had ranged openings, and I just
Speaker 1: knew it was about thirty yards. The deer, it's it's thick.
Speaker 1: I drew before she came into the opening, and it
Speaker 1: was just perfect. And she got into the opening back
Speaker 1: grunted at her. There was one vine about half the
Speaker 1: size of your pinky that was running up about three
Speaker 1: ft in front of her, right over the vitals, and
Speaker 1: I chose to send it uh that if it deflected
Speaker 1: like it was close enough to her that it wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna be an issue. If that vine had been fifteen
Speaker 1: feet away, it would be a different shot. In in
Speaker 1: my mind, I just hit it right where I was aiming,
Speaker 1: thirty yards And so now the deer is probably forty
Speaker 1: ft below me though, because I'm thirty ft from the
Speaker 1: ground and the deer is at least ten ft below
Speaker 1: the base of the tree. Am I right? So it's
Speaker 1: way down there. Shoot. In my mind, I just see that.
Speaker 1: I just see it just go right where I wanted.
Speaker 1: But still it's a long shot. It couldn't really tell
Speaker 1: the deer mule kicks, runs out there, stops fifty yards away,
Speaker 1: and I think it's just gonna start tumbling down the hill.
Speaker 1: It stops, it turns, and it starts walking, and I go,
Speaker 1: oh man, and it gets down. It just walks out
Speaker 1: of sight, and then we hear deer start blowing. And
Speaker 1: I know the deer that shot isn't blowing. But in
Speaker 1: your mind you're thinking I just shot blow it, and
Speaker 1: and justin I even said, did I miss that deer,
Speaker 1: and Justin was like, I kind of swear heard you
Speaker 1: hit it, and I said, I could have swear I
Speaker 1: saw me hit it with my eyes. And then but
Speaker 1: then it's there's a big log right behind this dough,
Speaker 1: and I think maybe I went right under that dough
Speaker 1: and it hit that log and just thudded, and it
Speaker 1: sounded like I hit her. Nothing like what goes through
Speaker 1: your mind after releasing an hour seconds and so we
Speaker 1: sat up there for twenty minutes. I get down, I
Speaker 1: walk over to the arrow. Well, first of all, from
Speaker 1: the tree stand, we were glass in the arrow, and
Speaker 1: the arrow has no blood on it that we can tell.
Speaker 1: And I'm in my mind thinking I just tendering this
Speaker 1: deer and this arrow is not adding up. I get down,
Speaker 1: walk over to it, pick up the arrow, and I'm
Speaker 1: telling you that arrow was almost clean and it had
Speaker 1: stomach content on it, very little blood and white hair.
Speaker 1: So I go back up and report to Justin and
Speaker 1: say not good buddy. And we set up in a
Speaker 1: tree for two hours, and I'm like kind of in
Speaker 1: the dumps, just like, man, I just gut shot this deer.
Speaker 1: This is you know, we're gonna track the steer all day.
Speaker 1: We're over a mile from the truck. I finally get
Speaker 1: down start tracking it. Spotty, spotty blood, dark liver, blood,
Speaker 1: not very much liver blood, stomach content and little specks
Speaker 1: of blood. Trail it to the log where we saw it.
Speaker 1: Turns downhill. We get about ten yards from where I
Speaker 1: saw it, and there's a deer laying there dead. And
Speaker 1: I walked down there and I absolutely tin ring that deer.
Speaker 1: I hit it. I counted ribs. I hit it four
Speaker 1: ribs into the rib cage. The deer's quartering away from me,
Speaker 1: one to three, four ribs in entry hole. The arrow
Speaker 1: exited about three inches behind the front shoulder in the
Speaker 1: lower one third of the cavity, entered right here, came
Speaker 1: out right here, knee crops. He showed liver and double
Speaker 1: lung and she walked away, and she walked away in
Speaker 1: that era was covered in She expandable head and it
Speaker 1: was blown. She was blowing stomach contents out of her hole.
Speaker 1: But it was the entry hole had stomach condo. It
Speaker 1: was just wild. I mean, everything about every single factor
Speaker 1: that would tell me gut shot, but my eyes told
Speaker 1: me it was a tin ring. Anyway, it's a good shot.
Speaker 1: It was a good shot, so it worked well. And
Speaker 1: it's a dang good thing that Clay did ten ring
Speaker 1: that thing because I was in charge of the food
Speaker 1: plan and I just planned in a night of venison
Speaker 1: because all I heard was about this on Fire Week
Speaker 1: in December, and boy, we just about went hungry one night. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were talking about the temperature. Let me yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: Well back to my my arrow that is lodged in
Speaker 1: an oak tree, back on that ridge on public land
Speaker 1: that anthropologists will dig up the point of the burgers renders.
Speaker 1: We need to talk about this, uh the Folesome Part
Speaker 1: two podcasts, Killing Bison with Stone Points Jared, what did
Speaker 1: you think what stood out to you? Well? There alright,
Speaker 1: So the one thing that stood out to me is
Speaker 1: the number that I think I heard was thirty two
Speaker 1: bison and bison antiquis. And you know what, it sounded
Speaker 1: like they they harvested these bison with some type of addle,
Speaker 1: addle or spear throwing. We're not What really stands out
Speaker 1: to me is I've butchered's milk, I've butchered some deer.
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine the amount of time and effort it
Speaker 1: took to butcher thirty two one thousand pound animals with stones.
Speaker 1: Those people had to be there for days cutting up
Speaker 1: bison meat, like they maybe just lived there for a month,
Speaker 1: And like that part to me was just like, man,
Speaker 1: I I cannot imagine that workload. Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1: And what we don't know is how many people there
Speaker 1: were there were there well, and then you know, there
Speaker 1: was some speculation I think it was you and Steve
Speaker 1: going back and forth that these people it was not
Speaker 1: a populous area as far as human beings anywhere on
Speaker 1: this continant at that point in time, to the point
Speaker 1: that you, guys, um, we're saying that it likely wouldn't
Speaker 1: have been uncommon for you not to see anyone that
Speaker 1: you weren't related to for your entire lifetime. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so I mean, in my mind it is like, okay,
Speaker 1: what like fifteen people twenty people killed thirty two bison?
Speaker 1: I would if I was up there with an that laddle,
Speaker 1: I'd have been like, all right, guys, we gotta we
Speaker 1: got a lot a few of these things run away,
Speaker 1: Like I ain't butcherin for six months. Hey, that's a
Speaker 1: good how many got away though? That that's one thing
Speaker 1: that I was wondering how many was the herd actually,
Speaker 1: how many was actually in the herd? And I can't
Speaker 1: remember in there did he explain why there were no bulls.
Speaker 1: It was just a that's a good point. It was
Speaker 1: a cow calf herd, so they just weren't that time
Speaker 1: of the year breeding was done, and bison segregate like that,
Speaker 1: and they'll be bachelor groups just like white tails, rusty
Speaker 1: bachelor groups, hanging out dog groups. So it was just
Speaker 1: a cold it was in the fall. A question. So
Speaker 1: you say it's a cow calf herd, is there any
Speaker 1: knowledge or speculation around whether they valued the horns for
Speaker 1: antlers off of maybe the males and they might have
Speaker 1: taken it with them. Well, they were not males killed
Speaker 1: at the fulsome site in that pile, because they accounted
Speaker 1: for the skulls of the females and calves, you know,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't like they were unaccounted for and they
Speaker 1: were able to tell that it was all females and so,
Speaker 1: and they left all the skulls and because they said
Speaker 1: that there's no value to them, right, so they wouldn't
Speaker 1: carry them because they're too heavy. Yeah, got the select
Speaker 1: cuts and then got out of there. Yeah, it would
Speaker 1: be interesting to know how many got away, because undoubtedly
Speaker 1: you would think some would have gotten away. Yeah, what's
Speaker 1: crazy is like, I mean you shot that dough she
Speaker 1: ran fifty sixty yards? Like how how are they doing this?
Speaker 1: That they're just piled up right there? That's the mystery, man.
Speaker 1: I mean that you would think that they would run,
Speaker 1: like all died in the spot about as big as
Speaker 1: this living room. They all figured they died right there,
Speaker 1: because I mean they weren't they found in the creek
Speaker 1: bed well, but also like the topography that they talked
Speaker 1: about plays into that, being at a box canyon, that
Speaker 1: top But I think it is interesting with that. For one,
Speaker 1: there's a couple of things going. I'll take a step
Speaker 1: back in a second. But how they knew it was
Speaker 1: in the fall, I think that was pretty cool. It's
Speaker 1: so straightforward. But when he said it, it's like wow
Speaker 1: to look at that, And I asked him, I thought,
Speaker 1: why did not think of that? Yeah, I should have
Speaker 1: known that. It was really interesting. But with the box canyon,
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting because immediately I thought, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're gonna disperse. It's crazy to think they drug them
Speaker 1: all to one area to take care of them. We
Speaker 1: knew that they took select cuts, so if you're gonna
Speaker 1: do that, you could just do them where the animals are,
Speaker 1: get what you need and go, so you think it
Speaker 1: would be more dispersed. So I think the topography definitely
Speaker 1: plays into that, especially when you get into the tactics
Speaker 1: from Steve to who was a doctor. Meltzer was the one.
Speaker 1: I think they both could be valid Um. Well, but
Speaker 1: now now Kyle Bell, Kyle Bell, So Meltzer and Steve
Speaker 1: you had the same idea that they were heard it
Speaker 1: in there and all kill and Meltzers, that they were
Speaker 1: coming in there on their own free will. Then that
Speaker 1: that was Kyle Bell, which without knowing the area, I
Speaker 1: it's tough to say. I think both could happen. So
Speaker 1: Steve thought that they were heard it in and they
Speaker 1: got stuck at the top of this box canyon no
Speaker 1: place to escape. Kyle Bell thought they were going there freely,
Speaker 1: Bison are gonna do what they want, and they were
Speaker 1: going in there for some sort of mineral and then
Speaker 1: you know, knowing that they're going to go in there,
Speaker 1: it's a perfect ambush opportunity. This wasn't on the podcast.
Speaker 1: But this is why the Burgers renders all about the
Speaker 1: manager of the Crowfoot ranch, really sharp uh named Seth.
Speaker 1: He thinks there was a mineral in there too, And
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think we never heard an
Speaker 1: opinion from you, man, I gotta go with the experts.
Speaker 1: Dr Meltzer has literally devoted like a massive part of
Speaker 1: his career two studying this exact thing. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: still a lot of other stuff too, but I mean
Speaker 1: he literally wrote a textbook. Like the book that he
Speaker 1: wrote is like an academic textbook. I mean it's like
Speaker 1: it's not like a nonfiction like fun read. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like a textbook. Man. So I just gotta believe
Speaker 1: the guy has more data points than he can say
Speaker 1: in a five minutes section on my podcast. And we
Speaker 1: talked a whole lot more. I mean I talked to
Speaker 1: him for hours, and we've now heard him speak on
Speaker 1: the podcast for like twenty one minutes. That's why it
Speaker 1: boiled down to with him. So you know, there's stuff
Speaker 1: you just gotta take out. That being said, these other
Speaker 1: guys who the Seth, this ranch manager, he's running catalog,
Speaker 1: he's on that land all day. He knows that farm.
Speaker 1: He knows that place. You don't think you could push
Speaker 1: him in there. And then Kyle, he's got a convincing
Speaker 1: little SoundBite there. Like I've been on two or bison
Speaker 1: kills with bison. But Steve's point, I think is pretty
Speaker 1: a counter to that which is so strong, which was
Speaker 1: these bison literally may have never seen a bipedal human before.
Speaker 1: They could have walked up to these things and like
Speaker 1: scratched him behind the ears before they killed them. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm exaggerating, but these aren't domesticated bison like we would
Speaker 1: have today. So potentially the behavior of these animals and
Speaker 1: undoubtedly humans have we know from White talent, and I
Speaker 1: mean it's so clear human predation changes animal behavior, so
Speaker 1: potentially they could have been hearded. Yeah, and and I
Speaker 1: think they probably were heard in there. Do we know
Speaker 1: what the major predation source was at that time? You know,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. I'd have to look it up.
Speaker 1: But there was some wild predators back then, man, there
Speaker 1: were I'm not sure if the dire wolves, they probably
Speaker 1: weren't around at that time. Definitely some simulation of a
Speaker 1: modern gray wolf. But I mean these bison and Tick
Speaker 1: was came out of a time of predation of like
Speaker 1: massive jaguars that are like three times as big, American cheetahs,
Speaker 1: American lions, sabertooth cats, but I think those were deeper
Speaker 1: into history. It's it really is fascinating. And the other
Speaker 1: thing that's kind of shocking to me, at least from
Speaker 1: what I gleaned from the podcast, was they found the bison,
Speaker 1: you know, remains, they found some fulsome points, but there
Speaker 1: really wasn't any other artifacts that were found, you know,
Speaker 1: not nothing other that suggests that they made camp there
Speaker 1: for a while while they dealt with these bison, or
Speaker 1: that they were in the area for any significant period
Speaker 1: of time. So probably on part three you'll hear David
Speaker 1: Meltzer talk more about that, because part three I asked him,
Speaker 1: I said, who were these people? Like, what do we
Speaker 1: know about these people? I mean, these were these were humans.
Speaker 1: They were like us, They had emotions, they had feelings,
Speaker 1: They were just like us. But they used flint rocks
Speaker 1: to clack together to make fire, and they made stone
Speaker 1: points out of church that they they're a little grittier
Speaker 1: than us. But and so I asked him, you know,
Speaker 1: who are these people? And that's when he began to
Speaker 1: talk about how we do not know where they camped.
Speaker 1: And that's his biggest frustration, he told me, as he
Speaker 1: said we were there. We know so much about this site,
Speaker 1: he said, we cannot, for the life of us find
Speaker 1: find where they camped because they had to have camped
Speaker 1: close and there could have been remnants of a camp there.
Speaker 1: But over that long, what's gonna be left is and
Speaker 1: not the best or the other things that they might
Speaker 1: have had. And I said this to Dr Meltzer, and uh,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it was an offensive question to
Speaker 1: ask an archaeologist, but I was like, I'm standing at
Speaker 1: the fulsome sight and you would have walked past it
Speaker 1: and it looked like every other place. You wouldn't have
Speaker 1: thought something special happened here. Yeah, looked like every other place.
Speaker 1: And by now, you know the excavation, the second excavation
Speaker 1: by Meltzer was done, and you know it was over
Speaker 1: twenty years ago, so it just looked like a drainage,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, And I'm standing there and I think,
Speaker 1: and I asked the guys I'm with, I'm like, how
Speaker 1: do we know there's not something incredible twelve feet under
Speaker 1: the ground right there? Nobody ever dug there. We don't.
Speaker 1: They literally dug up a spot about from from this
Speaker 1: living room wall to probably the kitchen door. I'm telling
Speaker 1: the whole excavated. Know what I could You know, my
Speaker 1: measurements about be wrong, but I'm telling you you could
Speaker 1: have shot a recurve bow any side of that to
Speaker 1: the other one and could have I would have thought
Speaker 1: something this important. They would have went way beyond the
Speaker 1: bounds there. Well, no, you gotta be careful because that's okay.
Speaker 1: And this is when you learn about archaeology, which I'm doing.
Speaker 1: Now you realize how it's like surgery. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: like saying, there's something wrong with this guy, why don't
Speaker 1: you just go in and fix it. Well, it's not
Speaker 1: like I mean, these guys are like taking months and
Speaker 1: months to excavate like a small area. I mean they're
Speaker 1: like removing I mean, so it's just an excavator like
Speaker 1: back in Georgia's time, shave off the bison skull to
Speaker 1: fit in the box. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You got a
Speaker 1: catalog all kinds of data points too, before you can
Speaker 1: even remove the item. Right. Uh, you said that the
Speaker 1: paleontologists got there first and was concerned with the bones
Speaker 1: and everything. But then later the archaeologists came and they
Speaker 1: said that a lot of what the original excavation did
Speaker 1: like took no regard to Uh that's right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they were they were they were worried about the bones,
Speaker 1: and so they weren't that concerned about anything else. And
Speaker 1: at the time they excavated it, you know, we didn't
Speaker 1: have the technology that we do now with radiocarbon dating,
Speaker 1: and oh, I couldn't get into all the detail of
Speaker 1: what melts Er studied. I mean, it was like wildly
Speaker 1: deep stuff about the sedimentation, the sediment layers. They were
Speaker 1: able to take those ten thousand year old bones and
Speaker 1: understand how long they were in the sun before they
Speaker 1: were covered with silt because the decay, you know how
Speaker 1: a bone, like if you had a deer bone, you know,
Speaker 1: somewhere wherever the sun was hitting it would turn white.
Speaker 1: Where it was touching the dirt, it would maintain its
Speaker 1: natural color. And they felt like with pretty quickly, like
Speaker 1: within a couple of years, that thing was silted over
Speaker 1: and that's the reason it was preserved for ten thousand years,
Speaker 1: and then it was only uncovered once in recent times,
Speaker 1: within the past before Meltzer did was the first time.
Speaker 1: That was the excavation, and they removed everything that They
Speaker 1: didn't leave anything in the ground on purpose. George mcjuncan
Speaker 1: found a small section of bones, you know, imagine a
Speaker 1: thirty two bits and killed right here, and there's a
Speaker 1: drainage right here. The new the flood pushed the cut
Speaker 1: bank of that drainage, you know, imagine three or four
Speaker 1: ft this way, exposed these bones enough for George to
Speaker 1: be like, those are cool. Somebody needs to come down
Speaker 1: here and check this out, you know, and then he dies.
Speaker 1: Nobody comes. Finally they come, and then this guy named
Speaker 1: Carl Schwaheim, who was a friend of George's. The museum
Speaker 1: hired him. He was just he wasn't even an archaeologist.
Speaker 1: He was just a dude, you know. Yeah, And they
Speaker 1: hired him to get them a bison and tic with skull,
Speaker 1: because by that time they had been like, hey, those
Speaker 1: are that's bison andic was that's pretty cool. We need
Speaker 1: one of those. They hired, They hired Carl. Carl goes
Speaker 1: in there, starts digging. Carl finds at Falsome Point, which
Speaker 1: at the time wasn't a falsome point. He just finds
Speaker 1: a stone point. It's like, dudes, I found sweet stone point.
Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. In Meltzer's book he has Carl Schwaheim's
Speaker 1: handwritten notes because Carl was instructed somehow to write notes
Speaker 1: of what he found every day. This is late no, no,
Speaker 1: this would have been nineteen something like that. And and Carl,
Speaker 1: it was a pretty good artist. And he drew in
Speaker 1: his notes the picture of the fulsome point that he found,
Speaker 1: and it looks just like it. And so how big
Speaker 1: are these? They're not real big man. The big ones
Speaker 1: are like three inches long. Probably that long stone that
Speaker 1: they're made out of. Is that native to exactly right there?
Speaker 1: Or did it come from something? Grease podcasts? And he
Speaker 1: didn't even listen to that one? That good. They we
Speaker 1: talked about it on the podcast Rusty. They they got
Speaker 1: that stone from Texas hundred fifty miles away. And oh
Speaker 1: he did listen. Wasn't Steve saying that they were finding
Speaker 1: for or you could find falsome points throughout the west?
Speaker 1: That's right, that's correct. Absolutely, so those those people roamed
Speaker 1: well shared technology. It wouldn't have been necessarily those people
Speaker 1: and the stone wouldn't have come from there, but that tech,
Speaker 1: that technology what he was describing was that that technology,
Speaker 1: and we're calling technology. The design of a point was
Speaker 1: clearly connected to people that were connected to one another.
Speaker 1: Like if you made a falsome point, it's to me,
Speaker 1: is so neat from a human perspective? Is that falsome
Speaker 1: point represents so much more than just a stone point
Speaker 1: to kill an animal. If if you're in Montana and
Speaker 1: I'm in New Mexico and we make the same stone point,
Speaker 1: I gave wrong to you. We share the same value system.
Speaker 1: We probably shared the same understanding of who God is.
Speaker 1: We probably share the same value system of who, how
Speaker 1: we hunt, how we managed to land, how we raise.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just so much more that's transferred. And
Speaker 1: what's so fascinating, and Steve did such a cool job
Speaker 1: of bringing it out, is that the stone point isn't
Speaker 1: necessarily I mean, of all the things that could have
Speaker 1: been left, the stone point just happens to be made
Speaker 1: of a material that is basically yeah, and so all
Speaker 1: the everything else is gone. We have a stone point.
Speaker 1: It's a shame that that's all we have, because there's
Speaker 1: just like so many questions left unanswered, but it also
Speaker 1: makes kind of fun. Oh it's sweet because it's it's
Speaker 1: a symbology of it. Like we're looking at just a
Speaker 1: stone point and essentially writing and narrative, well, trying to
Speaker 1: put together historical context, but then building a narrative and
Speaker 1: trying to get you know, an inference from this. And
Speaker 1: I was thinking about it. What you know, you're joking
Speaker 1: about your arrow and you know, someone to find ten
Speaker 1: thousand years, But like, let's take the arrow out of it.
Speaker 1: What do we have that's that symbolic? Because like, as
Speaker 1: you're saying, those people are connected from that one point.
Speaker 1: What is something today that if someone found ten thousand years,
Speaker 1: would it even last? For one, wouldn't make it there?
Speaker 1: But then what is something that's that significant? When I
Speaker 1: was trying to think about it, I don't know if
Speaker 1: there is something people shooting expandable broadheads I was I
Speaker 1: was wondering what the cutting dia was on that falsome point.
Speaker 1: You know, how effective that expandable? And they go, these
Speaker 1: guys were real chumps. Hey, actually, rusty, I have three
Speaker 1: expandables and three four four blades fixed heads in my quiver,
Speaker 1: and I've shot way more fixed blades over the last
Speaker 1: fifteen years. Next spandals, I'd no need to be proud.
Speaker 1: I just killed stuff and it dies. U. Now that
Speaker 1: what's so awesome. It's the mystery of this that is
Speaker 1: what makes it so unique. How did they kill these bisons?
Speaker 1: We don't know, We wouldn't need I thought Steve's I mean,
Speaker 1: this is what Steve's good at, is like the idea
Speaker 1: that this was just a snapshot of time. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: trying to understand if this was a big deal or
Speaker 1: if it wasn't. Yeah, a day, just a normal day.
Speaker 1: Oh well, we need to go and get our meat
Speaker 1: harvest for the next three weeks. Let's go get them.
Speaker 1: Were they talking about it for years or did they
Speaker 1: talk about it for the rest of them? This is
Speaker 1: the pictograph on every wall in New Mexico? Is this
Speaker 1: bison hunt? Incredible? Yeah? It makes me think, like how
Speaker 1: much of that got like when that flood came, how
Speaker 1: much of that stuff is four or five yards down further?
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah, so many of those you know bones.
Speaker 1: That brings up a good question of mine that I had,
Speaker 1: or my major question of pivotal point is there's so
Speaker 1: many different weather events and different climate changes in the
Speaker 1: past ten thousand years. I'm wondering if some kind of
Speaker 1: weather event maybe artificially moved them together the site, or
Speaker 1: maybe the erosion and then the covering the erosion, how
Speaker 1: many cycles of that occurred over ten thousand years, and
Speaker 1: how that may have affected the site. Uh, there's just
Speaker 1: a lot of questions that I have that I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would. We'll see, we we do.
Speaker 1: We do, like with with the certainty that with the
Speaker 1: highest level of scientific certainty, what they did when they
Speaker 1: went back seventy years later at fulsome if you if
Speaker 1: you read that textbook that full that that that Dr
Speaker 1: Malison between all the law No, that's that's exactly what
Speaker 1: they went back to understand was that they call it,
Speaker 1: uh the paleo geography, which is what was the geography
Speaker 1: of the land, uh paleo to what is it paleo topography,
Speaker 1: which is the the geology of the land throughout the
Speaker 1: time period because the geology has changed, but also the
Speaker 1: I think he called the the stratigraphy of the land,
Speaker 1: which is the stratification of it. They're able to basically
Speaker 1: tell by the deposition and the layers that this this
Speaker 1: was not moved here by erosion number one. And he
Speaker 1: went on and on, and I asked him, and I
Speaker 1: just clipped out these, you know, kind of highlight points.
Speaker 1: But I mean, what what they do, what archaeologists do,
Speaker 1: is determined that this happened culturally, not by the events
Speaker 1: of the natural world, like pushing the stuff together, because
Speaker 1: that could happen, like, for example, you know, you could
Speaker 1: have a bison kill down three or four ft below
Speaker 1: the surface and have gophers digging holes and burrows down
Speaker 1: there and knocking a stone point from the surface down
Speaker 1: there and falling. Then you find a bison kill with
Speaker 1: a stone point there, and you go, holy cow, you
Speaker 1: know they're the same. Man. These boys make a living
Speaker 1: making sure that is not the case. And there's a
Speaker 1: phrase they use called n C two which means in place.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's probably French for in place. Why
Speaker 1: we're using French words, I don't know. But basically, when
Speaker 1: they found that point, that fulsome point in between two ribs,
Speaker 1: it wasn't stuck in a rib. I thought it was stuck.
Speaker 1: Half the time I researched this, I thought they were
Speaker 1: saying it was stuck in a rib, And it was not.
Speaker 1: It was laid in between two ribs. And there's an
Speaker 1: iconic photo and I'll put it on my Instagram of
Speaker 1: two ribs. And you know how we've all probably found
Speaker 1: air heads in the ground when you just see half
Speaker 1: of it sticking up and you're like, that's in C
Speaker 1: two and and this was that. And then they found
Speaker 1: so many there was so many data points they can
Speaker 1: I think they can understand the flaking on a point
Speaker 1: to understand how old it is, so like these bones
Speaker 1: are tent that radio carbon date ten thousand years, these flakes,
Speaker 1: you know, the stone points come back as being verified
Speaker 1: of being that old. So it's like everything there. The
Speaker 1: sediment was that it was like no question. So it's
Speaker 1: pretty little. Oh it's a d settled. See what I
Speaker 1: feel for Dr Meltzer though, is the various degrees of
Speaker 1: quality control throughout this whole thing. Like, yes, he has
Speaker 1: a historical context and he can put this together, but
Speaker 1: he talked about like you know, the archaeolologists from the paleontologists,
Speaker 1: but then even the way they mapped it, it would
Speaker 1: be nice if he could just go and do it
Speaker 1: like you know, and get the full picture, because like
Speaker 1: how tough is that knowing someone And I was thinking
Speaker 1: about that, like people are trying to shoot wholes saying
Speaker 1: that humans have people haven't been around for ten thousand years,
Speaker 1: and it's like you could look and be like, that's
Speaker 1: not a credible source. He could have dropped that there,
Speaker 1: landed it lied whatever. Man, it would be tough to
Speaker 1: try to figure this out using no or knowing that
Speaker 1: folks who don't know as much as you do now
Speaker 1: because we've progressed and we have better technology kind of
Speaker 1: just went through and dug up some bones. And you
Speaker 1: got to take that into account when you're trying to
Speaker 1: draw conclusion from all this, like likes another detective has
Speaker 1: already ramsized trying to figure out but what And just
Speaker 1: to clarify the whole conversation, Meltzer the it was long
Speaker 1: time ago established that this site was legitimate in when
Speaker 1: those guys were like this, I mean, the leading archaeologists
Speaker 1: in North America came and said this is legit. There's
Speaker 1: no way to argue this. This is real. Humans killed
Speaker 1: bison antiquolis before absolutely, so that was never in question.
Speaker 1: When Meltzer went back. Meltzer went back to discover a
Speaker 1: whole lot of other questions that they had. Okay, so
Speaker 1: that was never in question. But um, and there's a
Speaker 1: oh man, A bunch of Meltzer's textbook is about all
Speaker 1: the drama with that. And it was really informative because
Speaker 1: you see, it's good, like archaeology is highly scrutinized, Like
Speaker 1: they don't just you just just roll up and find
Speaker 1: a point and be like, yeah, we've been here for
Speaker 1: three or tho years and then everybody believes like highly scrutinized.
Speaker 1: But what it was interesting to me is that it
Speaker 1: was clear that it was highly influenced by human ego.
Speaker 1: I mean, he wrote about it. He he was like
Speaker 1: this guy, didn't like this guy, and he was trying
Speaker 1: to discredit it for no good reason. And so there's
Speaker 1: that going on, like these leading archaeologists, you know, like
Speaker 1: trying to discredit someone because they didn't find it or
Speaker 1: so there was some of that going on, but this
Speaker 1: was so clear cut that like every the leading archaeologist
Speaker 1: at the time, I can't remember his last name, maybe
Speaker 1: it's Brown. Within a week of him being at fulsome
Speaker 1: he went out and he actually took the one of
Speaker 1: the big full points and he was a big enough
Speaker 1: wig that he was able to just say, I'm taking
Speaker 1: that with me, and he took it to all his
Speaker 1: lectures and he said, man has been in North America
Speaker 1: for ten thousand that one. And when he said that,
Speaker 1: it was like, no one was gonna argue with this guy.
Speaker 1: But it was groundbreaking shattered. And what I'm gonna talk
Speaker 1: about in podcast number three is it shattered people's idea
Speaker 1: of life on planet Earth. Yeah. I mean, like we
Speaker 1: thought humans had been in North America for three thousand
Speaker 1: years and all of a sudden, we've been here for
Speaker 1: ten thousand. It kind of like destabilized people. So when
Speaker 1: you showed up to this site, you know some places
Speaker 1: that you show up with historical significance or or what
Speaker 1: have you, You just like there's an aura about it.
Speaker 1: You like get chills. It's it's kind of just like
Speaker 1: an experience to be there. It was falsome that way
Speaker 1: for you. It was really neat being there. I can't
Speaker 1: say that, uh, I mean it was kind of an
Speaker 1: academic experience in some ways, just uh, just going there
Speaker 1: and seeing it and trying to understand what happened, and
Speaker 1: then being there with the experts and stuff. But I'd
Speaker 1: be lying if I said it was it. It was
Speaker 1: totally like that for me. Now when I come back
Speaker 1: and I really study it and kind of put it
Speaker 1: together afterwards, it is. I wouldn't say that. When I
Speaker 1: was there it was like that. But when I asked
Speaker 1: him about that the other day we were driving in
Speaker 1: the truck, he was like, it looked like that, pointed
Speaker 1: out the window. He said, it could be. It doesn't
Speaker 1: look the same. It's not the way it was. So
Speaker 1: that's true, it doesn't. It's it does not look like
Speaker 1: a box canyon anymore. Yeah, it just I mean, it
Speaker 1: just it looks like a it looks like a drainage,
Speaker 1: and drainage I mean like like probably like ten foot
Speaker 1: down if you're standing in the bottom of it. The
Speaker 1: stream bab would be like four or five ft wide,
Speaker 1: and they're thanks going up this way and this way,
Speaker 1: and it just kind of it kind of goes up
Speaker 1: just a little bit and then flattens out. But oh,
Speaker 1: I imagine like these platole walls and from it was,
Speaker 1: it was not it was indescript place interesting, but the
Speaker 1: box canyon. And I don't fully understand how they understood
Speaker 1: what it looked like that, but they but they did,
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, you'd walk right past it. Not well,
Speaker 1: Eric Sigfried was drawn couple maps like a hundred years
Speaker 1: before he came up with the Onyx hunt APT. I
Speaker 1: just didn't know about it, so it would say that again,
Speaker 1: that joke went right over my head. The on X founder.
Speaker 1: I was just joking that he had that box canyon
Speaker 1: mapped out. That was on X joke. Got it. It
Speaker 1: also makes you wonder what's hiding under completely ordinary places
Speaker 1: just all around us totally. I mean that was what
Speaker 1: that was what I said, how much of planet Earth
Speaker 1: has been explored by an archaeologist to this detail? You know,
Speaker 1: very very like that. It's that way. I like it.
Speaker 1: I don't want to know everything. I want there to
Speaker 1: be mystery absolutely well, what what is so hard for
Speaker 1: us to understand when you look back at human history
Speaker 1: and like the fulsome people as we define the fulsome
Speaker 1: people as being defined by this technology of the points
Speaker 1: that they used, they were around for about a thousand years.
Speaker 1: The fulsome points were in fashion for a thousand years.
Speaker 1: That seems like when I say that, does that sound
Speaker 1: like a long time or a short time? Does it?
Speaker 1: Like I'm sitting here I was just thinking about like
Speaker 1: ten thousand years, that's not even really comprehendible for me. Yes,
Speaker 1: a thousand years is still like holy like still kind
Speaker 1: of incomprehendible. So here's my here's my point about how
Speaker 1: we live in this. We live in the most bizarre
Speaker 1: human experience of humans that have ever lived on planet Earth.
Speaker 1: I mean, for a hundred years we've been using fossil
Speaker 1: fuels and driving trucks and cars, having electricity, having the
Speaker 1: technology to be able to have a conversation. This would
Speaker 1: have been supernatural stuff to a falsome hunter. If we
Speaker 1: could say there will be people that will listen to
Speaker 1: this conversation in the future, they would be like, what
Speaker 1: kind of witch doctor you man? I mean, we live
Speaker 1: in such a bizarre human experience that we think that
Speaker 1: we're normal, and that we think that this is normal.
Speaker 1: This is not normal to humans at least if we
Speaker 1: look back at human history and we are so stink
Speaker 1: and arrogant thinking and I'm talking like as a as
Speaker 1: a as mankind to think that we know everything, that
Speaker 1: everything is tame, and that everything is discovered, and that
Speaker 1: everything is under stood because science, that technology and science
Speaker 1: has just skyrocketed, you know, it means human knowledge was
Speaker 1: on a graph. It would be a J curve, you know,
Speaker 1: starting about two years ago, and it would have got
Speaker 1: steeper and steeper and steeper and steeper the last fifty years.
Speaker 1: And then you hit the Internet and it comes a
Speaker 1: roller coaster and you yeah, but there's so much we
Speaker 1: don't know and we'll never know, and there's so much
Speaker 1: yet to be discovered. I mean, this stuff like this,
Speaker 1: I think is designed to keep us humble. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were using that point for a thousand years, and
Speaker 1: I'd switch broadheads halfway through seasons something. The reign of
Speaker 1: the expandable head will be about thirty years. Did you
Speaker 1: get to hold the falsome point? Yeah, I mean not
Speaker 1: the ones they found, so that was nothing. I asked
Speaker 1: Dr Meltzer is like where is all this stuff? Like
Speaker 1: where are the bison? Where are the falsome points? And
Speaker 1: they're sca it around, you know. I mean it was
Speaker 1: a hunt almost a hundred years ago, and things were
Speaker 1: way different back then when they excavated most of that
Speaker 1: stuff out. For instance, this big wig archaeologists just carried
Speaker 1: a point with him and they found it, as I
Speaker 1: understand it, they found it in his desk drawer after
Speaker 1: he died, like whenever he passed away, so like he
Speaker 1: had just like kept it in his personal collection. And
Speaker 1: this is like a really incredible point should be in
Speaker 1: a museum, and he's got it in his desk, you know,
Speaker 1: and they found it. So they still some of the
Speaker 1: points are unaccounted for hunt right now, where did you
Speaker 1: get that? Dr Meltzer has in his in his textbook.
Speaker 1: He they have a graphic that shows every single point
Speaker 1: they found, the front and the back, so they'll be
Speaker 1: two images the front in the back. And I mean
Speaker 1: so they documented every single one they found sound and
Speaker 1: as I understand it, well maybe they don't have documented
Speaker 1: the ones that were lost. I think they documented sixteen,
Speaker 1: but they said there was twenty, and so there's four
Speaker 1: that are still like probably in the wash, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody probably washed the stars those old starge units. But
Speaker 1: so but there are fulsome points, real fulsome points in
Speaker 1: a lot of places. I mean I couldn't I wouldn't
Speaker 1: even know where to start to tell you like how
Speaker 1: many we have, but I mean, for sure thousands and
Speaker 1: you could find one today. We were at a farm
Speaker 1: in Nebraska a couple of weeks ago. And the farmer
Speaker 1: shows Steve Ronell and I his collection and he's got
Speaker 1: half a fulsome point that he found on his farm
Speaker 1: in Nebraska. So I mean it's not it's very uncommon,
Speaker 1: but at the same time they're around. So when I
Speaker 1: was at the Fulsome Museum, which if you ever go
Speaker 1: in that part of the world, you gotta go there.
Speaker 1: It's really cool. Um it's just like this old time.
Speaker 1: It's not like you know, it's kind of museum and
Speaker 1: go in and pick stuff up. Yeah. Yeah. So there's
Speaker 1: this case of falsome points and I'm like, can I
Speaker 1: open that? And there he was like sure, And I'm
Speaker 1: gonna post a post a video at some point of
Speaker 1: me holding a falsome point and uh yeah. So they're
Speaker 1: around my kind of museum. Yeah, yeah, they're around. But
Speaker 1: we will nerd out on the technology of the falsome
Speaker 1: point on the fourth episode. You guys do some kinnetic
Speaker 1: energy testing and stuff. Oh man, I talked to the
Speaker 1: as my understanding goes, the nation's leading expert on addle addles.
Speaker 1: He did his PhD on addle addles, and he uh
Speaker 1: detail on on why they use that, why that technology
Speaker 1: the falsome point was so good Yeah, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: really neat. It's I just again like I'm that one's
Speaker 1: very interesting to me because I mean, I've I've shot
Speaker 1: enough critters with you know, a compound bulb ping seventy
Speaker 1: pounds that you get three inches of penetration when you
Speaker 1: hit up you know, some bone inside of a white tail. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like the fact that these people were hand sharpening rocks,
Speaker 1: fixing them to a wooden arrow of some sort with
Speaker 1: what like cattail fibers or something. I'm just making some
Speaker 1: and then hawking them presumably out of an addle addle
Speaker 1: and they were able to kill thousand pound animals that way,
Speaker 1: a bunch of them. That is insanity to me. Yeah. Thus,
Speaker 1: I would like a YouTube demonstration with you an a
Speaker 1: laddle and a fulsome point. That's a good idea. Much.
Speaker 1: There's quite a bit more to come. We're only halfway
Speaker 1: through the series, so there's two more full podcasts, and
Speaker 1: the things, the things that the guys bring up next time,
Speaker 1: I think are just as intriguing as this first one was.
Speaker 1: It's interesting too, is that this isn't the only one
Speaker 1: we have. I mean, there's other really unique sites. Um,
Speaker 1: the Clovis site, the Clovis site was basically a similar thing,
Speaker 1: but it was mammoth kill. So I mean it was
Speaker 1: the same story, except it wasn't. I mean, it wasn't
Speaker 1: the same story. George mcjunking did what I you if
Speaker 1: George mcjunking had ridden his horse down there and found
Speaker 1: that too. Boys, there's another one down there about four
Speaker 1: hundred miles you might want to check it out. I
Speaker 1: believe it's a mammoth what, George, Well, it's been super
Speaker 1: fun sharing camp with all you guys. Really has we
Speaker 1: man for having such a crumby week of deer hunting.
Speaker 1: We really have had a great time. I hope some
Speaker 1: of the group text comes out on the media episode
Speaker 1: because the people deserve to see it. Well, hey, I
Speaker 1: hope Rusty wins this contest with a big You kill
Speaker 1: a big buck tomorrow that beats a dough and a rabbit,
Speaker 1: thank you. Well, you don't know, is that me and
Speaker 1: Justin Michel think that that buck might end up on
Speaker 1: our side of the road tomorrow. Wouldn't be. There's a
Speaker 1: big old rub rought behind our trees stand and I
Speaker 1: can see I'm sure he's working that entire I think
Speaker 1: it was him I mean, how many bucks are gonna
Speaker 1: be rubbing on trees that big? That's probably hire. It
Speaker 1: really is probably him. Now, whether he's there in the evening,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I hope he comes to you because
Speaker 1: I don't want to kill him. Well you would love
Speaker 1: to kill this Well, it's it's Uh, it's been really
Speaker 1: fun sharing a camp with with Jared and Zach. You know,
Speaker 1: I've knowing you guys. This first time we really spent
Speaker 1: much time together. So it's been a pleasure. Yes, it has.
Speaker 1: I've been I've been looking forward to this hunt all
Speaker 1: the year. And even though it's it's been tough hunting.
Speaker 1: As I said, it's it's going to be a highlight
Speaker 1: of my fault. Good, no doubt about it. Good resting,
Speaker 1: keep studying. Man. Oh yeah, I got finals next week,
Speaker 1: so that's awesome. Here, well, it's a gambling for the morning.
Speaker 1: Give give us the sixty second spill on how you're
Speaker 1: gonna kill this buck in the bottom of the night. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I've made the decision. I'm going to hunt where
Speaker 1: we wanted this evening in the morning, against my again,
Speaker 1: against your advice. Uh, We're gonna slip in there. We'll
Speaker 1: probably stay in there a couple of hours. We're getting
Speaker 1: up early and yeah, up at one o'clock. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then uh, we'll come back here and we're really gonna
Speaker 1: think it over really hard. And then we're gonna go
Speaker 1: back right in the middle of the day and we're
Speaker 1: gonna look at this spot really hard, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: pick me a tree and I'm gonna kill that buck.
Speaker 1: All right. It sounds like it's pretty simple. It's just
Speaker 1: that it's that simple taking us to class. So I've
Speaker 1: been full drawing twice. If I come to full draw time,
Speaker 1: fantastic idea. What's that a decoy lowered out of your
Speaker 1: stand right at dark? You wouldn't want to put a
Speaker 1: decoy out there throughout the whole day because it would
Speaker 1: mess up all the doughs. You need all the dos
Speaker 1: to come by. You. You've got a decoy in the stand,
Speaker 1: You assemble it in the stand, put an eye hook
Speaker 1: right through its back, and then about thirty minutes before dark,
Speaker 1: you'd lower it to the ground the tree. And when
Speaker 1: that buck came out, he walked straight to the six
Speaker 1: point six point and he nudged him. He didn't really
Speaker 1: get aggressive with him, but he just reached over, and
Speaker 1: is this not that would work in the white Tail
Speaker 1: books fifty years from now because of this out of
Speaker 1: the tree, that will work. And they'll find that they'll
Speaker 1: find my point up on that mess man. This guy
Speaker 1: he must have Wow, get driving, drive into the closest
Speaker 1: past prow and you better go get you a decoy.
Speaker 1: The one thing that they'll find ten thousand years from
Speaker 1: now that will survive is that. But with the jayhook
Speaker 1: in the back, they're gonna make all kind of cultural
Speaker 1: assumptions these days are crazy now. The ones that I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make the nucom lower bill Uh. Decoys, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have the stone point that you run your rope through
Speaker 1: that's stuck in the dude there, you better make the
Speaker 1: you better, you know, fabricate some good stuff to stick that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just a mess with the anthropologist. Thanks to Time, guys,