WEBVTT - Techlash Takes a Turn on Apple 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.640 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.239 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.880 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.160 YouTube search Bloomberg glovel News. Hey, one thing we want 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:33.479 to bring to your attention. Uh it went public video 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:37.320 spack and it's back back by venture capitalist investor Jamaal Polyopatia. 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:39.520 It started trading today on the NASDAC. We're talking about 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.919 the fintech social finance are so far raising roughly two 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.600 point four billion dollars to fuel growth at the company. 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:47.960 Let's get into it with so FI CEO Anthony Nod, 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.640 a former ce and CFO over at Twitter from a 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.400 Goldman Sax partner overseeing tech and media. He joins us 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:55.880 on the phone in San Francisco, Anthony, great to have 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.800 you here on Bloomberg Business Week on Bloomberg Radio. Congratulation. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.600 Why do this through a spat and spack and not 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:06.560 a traditional I p O. UM? You know, I think 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.520 each company has to evaluate the different ways to go 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:12.759 public based on their facts and circumstances, and for us 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:15.480 this was a great option. We had a few things 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:19.320 to consider. First, UM, we we wanted to convert our 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:23.000 capital structure, where that was largely preferred shares to common shares. 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.720 That wasn't necessity for two reasons. One, order to file 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.120 with the Battle Reserve for a bank charter, we needed 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.679 of comment act that could become a public company. We 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.360 also needed to make that conversion. We also had two 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.880 capital needs. First, um, we had bought Galileo in March 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.600 of two thousand and twenty UM and with that came 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:46.679 a seller note and that note was going to be 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:48.720 doing March at two thousand twenty one, So that was 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:51.880 one capital need. A second capital need was to finance 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.000 the bank if and when we were able to achieve 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.880 a charter. UM and so we were raising private money 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.040 at the time, and we got approached number investors that 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:03.560 wanted to put even more capital into the company and 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.160 also considered UM supporting us in and going public. And 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:09.520 so what we ended up doing was choosing a private 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:13.760 round with t ro Price who invested three in seventy 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:17.520 five million dollars. Then we closed that on or about December. 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:22.880 We launched the PIPE confidential pipe process on UH and 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.200 we're able to complete that by the thirty one and 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.040 then announced the combination of those two and the third 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.600 leg of the soul, which was a SPAC merger with 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.880 Social Capital Head of Sophia five UM on January four. 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.440 And the combination of those three pieces made it a 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.359 unique approach for us to raise capital and go public 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.680 at the same time, and it was the right outcome 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.840 for us versus a regular way I p O or directs. Well, 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.120 no shortage of spacts out there, so why Social Capital 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:53.120 Head of Sophia founded by Chamatia Patia. We're approached by 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.760 a number of different um UM SPACs and UM we 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.200 were confident that we're ready to become a public company. 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.760 We knew we would have to go through a pretty detailed, 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.480 more detailed process from a diligence standpoint than going public 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:09.480 because it's a merger UM, and we thought that Tamas 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:14.160 team brought one, first and foremost a strategic UM perspective 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:15.959 to the table for us and that we could partner 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:21.760 on different strategic opportunities over time. Number two, UM they 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.760 had great experience in conducting the type of diligence of 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.040 a company like US, as they've done with other companies, 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.160 to make sure they brought the credibility to the PIPE 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.160 investors when they made when they made the announcement and 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:35.920 brought us to Pipe investors. UH. Three they had great 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:40.040 experience and executing spects and so the combination of strategic value, 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.480 UM the diligence process that we knew would bring incremental 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:47.880 credibility to the PIPE investors. And then three UM expertise 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.040 and having done this before were the three factors. And 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.880 while we was social it was a tough decision. We 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:55.320 brought three options to the board that came down to 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.040 the wire and the board chose Social Capital. So you 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.600 guys are all in their student loans, a personal loans, 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.800 there's home loans or insurance, small baz financing, UM investing. 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.880 There's a lot on your platform. Will crypto be part 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:11.640 of it at some point? UM Today we do offer 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.160 within invest the ability to buy single stocks without commissions, 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:19.320 fractional shares which we pioneered, robe advisory accounts which we've 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:23.080 created ourselves. UM. We also have UM five so far 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.680 e T s UM, and we do offer cryptocurrency. We 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.080 offer eighteen different coins. UM. We do it in a 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:34.440 very appropriate way and that we disclose to the volatility 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.680 of that asset class and the risk that you could 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:38.719 lose all your money every time you put in a 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.640 bye word that is disclosed before you hit the hit 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.240 the bye button. UM. It is an asset class that 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.520 our members one and you want to provide cercified selection 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:49.560 for them. Hey, Anthony, and we've got about a minute 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:50.880 and then we'll come back and talk some more. But 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.440 because you have an array of services that you can 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:56.840 offer folks on the platform, what do you think is 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.760 going to be the best growth opportunity provide the best 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:01.160 more jins for you. Where is going to be the 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.680 big business in your view? You know, we design each 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:06.640 one of the businesses to be best in class from 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:11.040 a consumer value proposition, but also best in class unit economics, 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:13.680 and so we designed them all to be attractive on 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.040 their own. UM. We do get incremental benefits when people 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:19.960 take the second, third or fourth product with us, but 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.120 they have to stand on their own both from a 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:25.359 value probably to the consumer and the unit economic standpoint 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.320 for us financially uh and and the reason why we 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.279 do that is we want to meet the member where 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:34.000 they are with what they want what we make money out. Anthony, 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.680 I want to talk a little bit about profitability and 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.920 so far's path to profitability. You currently lose money more 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:44.640 than two million dollars in nineteen twenty each year. What 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.840 is the path to profitability and when do you get there? Well, 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.599 we achieved positive ebada UM in the fourth quarter of 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.200 two thousand twenty is our first quarter of positive ebada 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.720 since we embarked on such an ambitious strategy to become 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:02.640 a one stop shop and opperenceive suite financial services products 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.120 on on one app UM. So we made a smiff 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:09.640 amount of investment in two thousand, eighteen and nineteen and 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.040 started to bear fruit of that investment two thousand twenty, 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.279 hitting positive ibadat in the fourth quarter of twenty UM 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.560 and again in the first quarter of two thousand and 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.520 twenty one UM then on a trailing told month basis 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.640 UM we as you'll see in our financial disclosures. We've 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:29.040 we've also achieved positive BADA so from a profitability standpoint 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.640 as it relates to non gap metric of IBADAD, which 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:33.960 we think is the best measure for cash flow. We've 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.520 gotten to that point now each one of our businesses 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.560 is not profitable or our lending business is very profitable. 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:42.920 It's a it's a you know, very very well growing 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.640 business UM. You can see the growth rates for the 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.160 business in our filings, but it's a it's a high 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:52.280 grower but also very profitable. Our technology platform is a 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:56.480 high even higher grower business UM with great profitability as 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.760 well with about thirty percent margins. And then our financial 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.440 serve this business which consists of SOFI invest so far 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.320 money and so by credit card UM. That's an acquisition 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.560 business where we recoup the customer opposition costs we make 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:10.840 in year one over the you know year and a 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.360 half the two years after we acquire them. So on 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.840 a per account basis, we may be hitting profitability, but 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.560 because we're acquiring more customers than we currently have that 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:23.080 are profitable, it shows a loss in that in that business, 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.920 which has also seen in our financials. But we focus 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.320 on unit economics reach one over our business and ProLAN 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.680 economics to make sure that overall these businesses can be 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.920 great unit economic businesses individually and in total. And so 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:40.160 we're balancing both growth at a high rate with profitability 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:44.200 in the overall mix. One thing I'm wondering, Anthony, is 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.040 whether you guys UM, who are your users who are 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:50.640 on the app, if they're buying so fi shares and 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.400 kind of showing support for the platform that they're trading on, 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:58.600 are you seeing that activity. We've definitely seen robust demand 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.840 for so far. Invest you can buy individual stocks without commissions, 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:07.760 fractional shares which we pioneered, cryptocurrency, and robo accounts, and 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.280 it's the only place you can buy all four asset classes. 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:14.720 If you want to buy UM, robo account, cryptocurrency and 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.000 stocks on any other platform, you'd have to use at 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.240 least two different apps to do so. And so we're 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.400 one stop shop even within invest. And we've seen robust 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.960 demands since we launched, and that's only increased as interest 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.600 rates have basically gone to zero and fed funds rate 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:31.960 UM and the stay at home economy has also increased 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.360 the amount awareness of the importance of investing in he 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.320 so investors on the app are buying so Fi shares, 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:44.320 that's what you're seeing. Sorry, I apologize, I thought you meant, uh, 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.480 Sofi invest and it's increased popularity because really it's just 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:49.760 so Far as it rates to so Fi shares. I 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.520 haven't had a chance to look at the trading volume 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:54.920 today of our investmentbers that are buying it. We'll get 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:56.440 that data at the end of the close today. My 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.360 my comments just to be clear, we're about the interests 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:01.840 and so Far invest as a as a product as 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.160 opposed to so Far the stock. I appreciate that. Hey, 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:05.680 what do you what do you make of the meme 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.079 stock frenzy that we're seeing and and to what extent 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.120 can you talk about what you're seeing on the platform 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.079 right now in terms of the way that that that 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.240 that people are trading shares at AMC and and other 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:19.120 meme stocks. Yeah. First, in our platform, we're pretty unique 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.439 in that we're really targeting beginning and novice investors and 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.400 they're quickly coming up the curve um. But less than 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:29.400 one percent of our so Far invest accounts trade more 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.640 than three stocks in a day, which is a great 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.760 sign that people are focused on their long term as 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.840 opposed to day trading, and we try to educate them 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.960 and not only that, but also dollar cost averaging. We've 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:43.640 enabled Functionality to do recurring investments UM so that they're 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.319 they're buying through the volatility over time as opposed to 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:48.520 trying to time the market. That we're proven to be 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.960 successful um as released the meme stocks. It's just another 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:55.560 phenomenon of the increased interest in and retail investing because 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.000 it's just become more accessible with being able to buy 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:01.680 fractional shares and no no commissions. But people need to 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:03.720 be educated on how to invest in a long term 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.960 and make the individual choices for themselves. We actually don't 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:09.240 offer options in margin jet. It's something that's in our 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.559 longer term roadmap. We're not really critical to our investors today. 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.280 There's some demand for it, but we will add it 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.360 over time, but it's not the highest priority. So that's 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:21.960 also pretty unique. Alright, great stuff, UM, Thank you so much, Anthony, 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.000 and hopefully we can catch up with you a little 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:25.720 bit later this year for an update on the business. 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.480 Anthony Nodo, he's chief executive officer, It's so FI and 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:30.679 former CEO at Twitter, joining us on the phone from 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:34.160 San Francisco, of course, going public trading on the nasdack Vias. 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:38.079 Back today, you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:43.600 Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Hey, listen, 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:45.480 we want to talk about a story online at Business 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:47.880 Week that we do want to bring your attention to. 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.520 It's about the shine coming off the golden child of tech. 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.240 That golden child, of course is Apple. So let's get 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.600 into the story. Bloomberg News reporter Joe Light with us 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:57.600 on the phone from our Washington, d C. Bureau along 0:10:57.640 --> 0:10:59.800 with Bloomberg Business We get our Joe Webber right next 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.760 to in our interactive broker studio. Apple. Yeah, it does 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.680 feel like over the last couple of years they have 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:11.160 escaped the scorn of the White House and regulators. Yeah, 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.840 you know, that tech clash thing has been for real 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.400 and everybody has felt it and Apple hasn't. And then 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.120 all of a sudden they got dragged into sort of 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.920 a mud fight. And that mud fight is you know, 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:28.240 just basically wrapped with the the epic lawsuit where Tim 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.680 Cook actually took a stand, but it also just has 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.720 made it feel like, oh wait, maybe maybe the luster 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.320 has come off this this golden child of sorts. So so, Joe, 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:41.360 what it's that epic fight is not the only thing 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.880 that Apple has been been fitting with. What where does 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.400 Apple find itself? Yeah? No, no, Apple is kind of 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.080 getting hit on four fronts. You know. The first, as 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:54.160 you mentioned, is this epic lawsuit. Um. The second, they 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:57.960 were hauled in front of Congress in April to answer 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.080 questions from lawmakers around it's up store and kind of 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.679 accusations that it's you know, anti competitive, that they're not 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.440 allowing enough competition to put programs on the iPhones. Then 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.160 they've in May they faced you know, kind of two 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.120 issues they face. Um uh, as he said, Tim Cook, 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:16.920 he actually took the stand in the epic trial and 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.640 facing those antitrust accusations. And then the New York Times 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.199 came out with an investigation about some of Apple's activities 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.360 in China, which just brought a new way of scorn 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.920 from lawmakers who you know, say that Apple was kind 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.840 of sacrificing some of the privacy of its users in 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:37.320 China in order to gain access to that to that market. So, 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:39.480 as he said, it was kind of nothing at all 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:41.920 for a few years. You know, during the Trump administration, 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.440 Tim Cook had a very good relationship with Donald Trump. 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:46.280 And now now all of a sudden, you have all 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.280 these things kind of hitting the company at once. So 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.959 what could go ahead to say? I always thought that 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.240 was unusual, Like Tim Cook and Donald Trump, like I 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.199 tried to get my head around. I'll never forget him 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.720 standing next to the President and not correcting him when 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.280 he was making statements about the factory in Texas a 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.800 few years ago. Um, Joe, I'm I'm wondering about potential 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:09.559 worst case scenarios here for Apple. Among the many challenges 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.679 that you you spoke about, what's the worst case scenario 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.000 for for Apple here? Is it? Is it Epic prevailing 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.160 in this fight? Um? So yeah, so so the Epic lawsuit. 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.720 I mean, Apple could potentially, you know, lose some of 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.920 its power over the App store if Epic wins. I mean, 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.480 the worst case scenario for Apple is if it starts 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:33.360 getting hit with antitrust lawsuits from governments, you know, whether 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.480 it's the whether it's the federal government. The Bloombergs reported 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.240 that is as uh as late as January, UM d 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:45.040 Og investigators were interviewing a developer on the app store, 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.000 so clearly they're doing some sort of investigation around that. Um. 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:52.000 Some seat governments have also brought lawsuits against those other companies, 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:56.319 against Amazon, against Facebook, against Google, and if it starts 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.040 getting hit with those sorts of antitrust lawsuits, I mean, 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:00.960 that's where the real real pressure comes. I mean all 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.600 this lawmaker stuff. You know, they say mean things, but 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.199 very rarely does it actually result in some sort of legislation. 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.880 But um, you know, these federal enforcers are a completely 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.080 different story. I think, I think you're right there, Like, 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.000 you know, it sounds good to talk mean and you know, 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.800 but it's another thing to actually like wheeled a stick Joe. 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:21.400 But you know, one of the things that I wonder 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.920 here is do you feel that, you know, is it 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.280 worse for Apple that you know, face something you know, 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.920 on a one on one basis, or to be sort 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.560 of part of like a zone defense where you've got 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:36.120 you know, they get wrapped up in things that might 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:41.040 also affect the Amazon's and another and facebooks of the world, 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.120 you know, other tech companies. Well, I mean, I guess 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.640 I guess you'd much rather be, you know, kind of 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:50.520 one in a crowd of people who are are facing iro. 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:52.320 I mean, you know, in the same way like you know, 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:54.520 you want to be like if you're a zebra, you know, 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:55.560 you kind of want to be in the middle of 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:57.080 the herd and kind of blend in and hope that 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.360 you're not the one the lion takes down or whatever. 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:02.280 But the you know, once they start facing this one 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:06.120 on one scrutiny, you know from these enforcers. I mean, 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.480 one of the lessons we had from Microsoft, which faces 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.120 ny I trust scrutiny. Um, you know, like twenty years ago. 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.320 Is Microsoft ultimately one that case. But because of the pressure, 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.120 because they didn't want to be seen as to um, 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.440 you know, growing into other businesses that could face even 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:26.320 more anti competitive scrutiny, they missed out on some business. 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.600 You know, people say that that's what gave Google the 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.480 opening to become the giant that it became. So that 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.360 that's the sort of you know thing that Apple is 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.040 gonna want to avoid, you know, fight this scrutiny while 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:40.040 also being aggressive in innovating in business expansion. But you know, 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.239 you also make a good point that you know, ultimately, 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:46.160 even the pressure, the political pressure that Apple and some 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:50.040 other tech companies have faced. You know, it's uncomfortable. It 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.480 gives great fodder for us to talk about on radio 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.920 and on TV and in Business Week magazine and online, 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:01.000 but ultimately didn't really hurt them to find too much financially, right, yeah, 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.960 so so so Ultimately, the thing, the thing that you know, 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.800 I'm sure Apple executives are gonna want to avoid is 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.040 where they decide, you know, not not to do something. 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:12.480 You know some you know what, one of their one 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.800 of their attorneys or even executive in his own mind 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.320 says no, we're not gonna we're not going to expand 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.600 into that business line because we know that you know, 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.080 such and such an investigator that will be just another 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.280 thing for this investigator or for this lawmaker um to 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.640 uh to yell at this about um so that that's 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.320 the sort of kind of you know, self editing of 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.880 their business business that that could ultimately be the effect 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.960 of you know, all this scrutiny. Well, Joe, I think 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:40.760 that another challenge to think about from an ant trust 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.360 perspective for for lawmakers is when it comes to Apple, 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.760 is how do you actually separate apples businesses or break 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.760 up apples businesses It's not like Amazon, where you could, 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:51.680 you know, like Elizabeth Warren has done in the past, 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.720 called for breaking off Zappos or in some cases people 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:57.720 have said, and it's Gott Galloway on our show said, 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.000 you know, the company A w S could be separated 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.440 from Amazon or or Facebook divesting from What's App for example. 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.520 It's not that simple with Apple's business, No, and and 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.040 and one of the points that um, you know, Tim 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.160 Cook made in this testimony a couple of weeks ago 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.760 was that, you know, the user experience in the app 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.000 store is it is pretty positive, right, Like they don't 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:23.280 face some of the male malware or security issues that 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:28.399 more open systems face. So when um uh, you know, 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.600 if if lawmakers or investigators ultimate or courts you know, 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.760 ultimately cause Apple to open up access to its marketplace, 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:38.960 I mean, one of the one of the arguments Apple makes, 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:40.720 and one of the things these people want to avoid 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.560 is making the user experience you know, actually worse, because 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.800 you know, the whole point of bringing bringing you know, 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.760 bringing more competition to a marketplace is supposed to be 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.320 that you make pricing and the experience you know better 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.919 for consumers. If you actually have the opposite effect in 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.960 bringing these cases. Um, you know that could cause a 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.000 you know, a backlash to some of the anti dress enforcement. Yeah, 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.200 I'm just thinking about you know, we're an Apple household 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.720 because it's it all works together seamlessly, and you do 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:08.960 wonder if you start pulling it apart, what happens? Music 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:13.840 to Tim Cook's here's Carol Kinching, Kinching, Joe Light, thank 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.960 you so much for porter of Bloomberg News joining us 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.119 from our Washington d C. Pure Check out his story 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:22.240 and many others at Bloomberg business Week dot com. Till Webber, 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:25.400 our editor of Bloomberg Business Week, joining us here in studio. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.280 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:39.000 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. It's Bloomberg 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:41.440 Business Week, Tim Sinback and Carol Masser in the Interactive 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.600 Broker Studio in New York. Bloomberg Business Week is brought 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:46.920 to you by s c I Asset managers don't get 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.480 results that are off the charts when their solutions are 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.600 off the shelf. Learn how sci is operating platform can 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.879 turn infrastructure into a competitive advantage at se i C 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.640 dot com Slash I m s so Tim this story 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.040 among our most read on the Bloomberg at this hour 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.439 about how employees are quitting instead of giving up working 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:06.120 from home. This is on a day when Deutsche Bank 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.760 launched its new remote working policy. So we've got a 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.960 lot going on when it comes to how people come 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.320 back to work. We're figuring it out. I guess as 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.680 we go here with more Anders Melon, he is wealth 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.560 reporter at Bloomberg News. He's in our interactive broker studio. 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.520 There is there was no playback playbook for the pandemic. 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.600 There's no playbook for how we come back to work, right, 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:26.840 That's right. I think every company is trying to figure 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.239 out how to deal with this. Well, employees do, right, 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.000 So tell us what you found out. So we are 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.760 finding out that there are some people that feel so 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.679 strongly about this that they're actually quitting their jobs, in 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.199 some cases with other employment lined up and in some 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.399 cases not, or they're looking for remote only opportunities because 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:46.080 they just don't want to go back to the office. 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:50.159 It's generational though, as you guys point out in your story, 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.960 a survey of a thousand adults in the US show 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.520 that would consider quitting if their employers weren't flexible. But 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.920 among millennials and Gen Z that figure was that's a 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.000 acording to a poll by Morning consult On behalf of 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:06.000 Bloomberg News. Right, so, I think it's hard to paint 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.720 with the braun brush. But but I think generally, you know, 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:14.000 reporting shows that younger generations tend to be more you know, 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.320 I think more fondly of remote work, see the benefits 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.240 of it, whereas older generations tend to be more of 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.000 the office first. Well, younger generations may not have kids 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.840 or mortgages either. No, I mean I do wonder about, 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:29.680 you know, kind of where you are in life that 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:32.919 determines kind of your your bargaining position on all of this. 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.880 But unders as you guys day in and day out 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.359 report on this, we have constant conversations around the office 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:41.280