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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 1: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 1: it means the absolute world to have your support. What

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Speaker 1: are you waiting for? Become a premium subscriber today at

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Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com. Well, we had a little bit of

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Speaker 1: holiday unpleasantness and it was all because of FIFA Crystal

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Speaker 1: So while we were traveling, it turns out that our show,

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Speaker 1: our last show that we had on Tuesday, was fully

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Speaker 1: blocked by FIFA and it was actually crazy because that show,

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Speaker 1: as you guys might remember, included some video, not even audio,

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Speaker 1: just some video of the Iranian soccer team refusing to

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Speaker 1: play or refusing to sing its national anthem. It was

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Speaker 1: less than ten seconds. It was clearly within the guidelines

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Speaker 1: of fair use. For people who don't know what that is,

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Speaker 1: it basically means that news organizations are allowed to use

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Speaker 1: copyrighted material as long as we're not just like, watch

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Speaker 1: this as well. As it has context of the clip,

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Speaker 1: as long as it has news value value, which of

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Speaker 1: course it did an overtly political moment. We played. It's

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Speaker 1: called voiceover, so you can see it visually, but you

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Speaker 1: don't actually hear it, and we're talking over it, so

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Speaker 1: it's not even the full audio and video. It was

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Speaker 1: a tiny clip and they blocked our entire full premium

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Speaker 1: show because of this ten seconds of overtly politically, clearly

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Speaker 1: justifiable fair use content that honestly, we didn't even think

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Speaker 1: twice about putting in the show because it's such a

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Speaker 1: clear instance of fair use doctrine. Right of course, right,

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Speaker 1: And look, we have contested it. We'll see it takes

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Speaker 1: weeks in order to win. We had to previously win

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Speaker 1: a fight with the UFC over that, so we have

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Speaker 1: a well established track record. But I think what's really

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Speaker 1: crazy about this is they actually said this was a

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Speaker 1: notice from YouTube. Let's put the up there on the screen.

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Speaker 1: It says high breaking points after a manual review, copyright

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Speaker 1: owner has claimed material in your video. As a result,

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Speaker 1: your video is blocked can no longer be played on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: This claim does not affect your accounts status. Wow, well,

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Speaker 1: thank you for that. And for the context, we send

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Speaker 1: our premium shows an unlisted YouTube link where they can

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Speaker 1: watch it. So they claim this is based on a

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Speaker 1: manual review. If it was just the public clip, I

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Speaker 1: think I would understand that. And also, it's not like

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Speaker 1: we're making any money off of that premium video. We

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Speaker 1: don't serve ads on that video right intentionally because we

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Speaker 1: send it out to our premium subscribers. So it was

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Speaker 1: just outright block Now, look, is this because of criticism

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Speaker 1: from Qatar and all that. I'm not going to get

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Speaker 1: that conspiratorial, although I do think it is possible, But

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Speaker 1: I do think it just shows like a deep neurosis

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Speaker 1: on their part to try and block out any of this.

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Speaker 1: And I know we can't. We cannot look past the

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Speaker 1: fact that AA was done manually. Yeah, and b this

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Speaker 1: was about Iranian protesters, That's what it was about. So

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Speaker 1: are they try Are they serving every news organization on

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Speaker 1: the planet with a sort of notice, Oh yeah, because

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Speaker 1: we were fun You think we're the only people who

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Speaker 1: cover this? Yeah, so they like take it down on

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Speaker 1: CNN's channel, right, Probably not? Yeah, Let's see. I mean

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Speaker 1: I would love to see that. Listen. It shows the

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Speaker 1: same thing that it always shows. Number One is very

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Speaker 1: hard to cover politics on YouTube, to cover news on YouTube,

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Speaker 1: and be able to do it without fear of having

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Speaker 1: these sorts of issues arise. Which is why we built

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Speaker 1: the business model that we built because we knew this

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Speaker 1: from the beginning. Number Two, like you just you can't

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Speaker 1: trust these people. You can't trust it to be applied fairly,

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Speaker 1: you can't trust them to be applied consistently. You can't

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Speaker 1: trust our channel be treated the same way as the

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Speaker 1: CNN channel or larger you know, official corporate media channels.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, it's it's a terrible situation. Ultimately, you know,

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Speaker 1: we figured out, like we sent out the premium show

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Speaker 1: on Vimeo instead, is our workaround so that we could

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Speaker 1: still provide the product we've promised to you all who

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Speaker 1: are paying subscribers. But you know, we are at their

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Speaker 1: whims like every day all the time. We're always thinking

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Speaker 1: about when we're doing the show, We're having to ask

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Speaker 1: ourselves constantly like are they got a fairy? Are is

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Speaker 1: this going to be copyrighted? What about that music all?

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Speaker 1: What was it we had a little music playing in

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Speaker 1: our mentor oh oh yeah, this is fun. So we

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Speaker 1: had to play a video obviously of Trump during his announcement,

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Speaker 1: and Trump happened to have some music playing in the background.

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Speaker 1: We got the whole thing got hit by copyright because

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Speaker 1: there was some audio in the background of this video

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Speaker 1: when we covered that's right, when we covered Trump don

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Speaker 1: Trump the presidency. Okay, there's what can we do about that.

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Speaker 1: The man played some music. Obviously, this is like a

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Speaker 1: clear news gathering, like core function, journalistic value, and the

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Speaker 1: whole thing gets hit because he played some music in

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Speaker 1: the background. So it shows you how hard it is

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Speaker 1: to navigate by their rules, how inconsistently the rules are applied,

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Speaker 1: and how much of a threat it really is ultimately

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Speaker 1: to independent, independent media. And it also shows why we

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Speaker 1: appreciate you all who support us so much, because if

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Speaker 1: you have to be at their whims, that the whims

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Speaker 1: of the YouTube gods like they can screw you at

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Speaker 1: any point in time with very little recourse, absolutely correct.

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Speaker 1: So I know a lot of you guys had questions

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Speaker 1: about that, so it was important to address it. That's

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Speaker 1: the full context. We can tested it, we'll see if

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Speaker 1: it works or not. I'm not particularly hopeful, you know. Again,

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Speaker 1: the one with the UFCUH that was when that I

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Speaker 1: forget the guy's name, the fighter said something about Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: and again we covertated, no question, totally taken off locked.

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Speaker 1: And here's the other thing. It's so ridiculous. Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: say so for that one, we're ultimately successful in the challenge, right,

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Speaker 1: but it took weeks. Actually, yeah, yeah, all the views

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Speaker 1: are done, like right at that point, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're it's over, Like, Okay, you can technically can test it,

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Speaker 1: you can have it remedied after the fact, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean that show is long in the past at

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Speaker 1: this point. That's part of what we do here is

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Speaker 1: being very timely with breaking news as it occurs. So

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Speaker 1: if you're talking about weeks later getting a remedy, I

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Speaker 1: mean that's they've already screwed you. It's done. It's over,

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Speaker 1: absolutely right, all right, guys, some interesting poll results to

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Speaker 1: dive into here. There's a lot here actually about how

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Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans feel about a variety of industries within

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Speaker 1: the economy. Let's take a look at this. So you've

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Speaker 1: got along the right hand side, and I'll narrate this

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Speaker 1: all these list of different sectors of the economy. So

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Speaker 1: you've got agriculture, trucking, restaurant, manufacturing, construction, dairy, higher ed technology,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And they asked, and

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Speaker 1: this was done by YouGov, generally speaking, do you have

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Speaker 1: a favorable or unfavorable opinion of these following industries? And

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Speaker 1: so they've got it divided here by how Republicans feel

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Speaker 1: about all of these industries versus how Democrats feel about

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Speaker 1: these industries. Some of them are quite close, quite aligned, like,

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Speaker 1: for example, Republicans and Democrats feel basically the same way

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Speaker 1: about the hotel industry as one example, and also about

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Speaker 1: the railroad industry, which is interesting and relevant given the

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Speaker 1: fact that there's a potential strike looming here. But the

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Speaker 1: places where they had the biggest partisan gap SOAGA were

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Speaker 1: news media, entertainment, higher ed mining, broadcasting, which I think

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Speaker 1: to me that's like feels like it falls into both

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Speaker 1: news media and broadcasting and entertainment rather education services, and

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Speaker 1: oil and gas. So some interesting details there on news media.

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Speaker 1: Just to pull out one of our favorite things that

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Speaker 1: we talk about. Republicans are minus fifty seven in terms

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Speaker 1: of their views of the news media. Democrats are only

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Speaker 1: a plus seventeen. So it's not like Democrats are really

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Speaker 1: in love with the news media at this point either,

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Speaker 1: but Republicans just wildly more negative on the sector. And

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Speaker 1: even though I am not a Republican, I tend to

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Speaker 1: a side more with their assessment of these state of

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Speaker 1: affairs over there. Yeah, the big one that actually stuck

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Speaker 1: out to me was higher ed because it has Republicans

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Speaker 1: at zero Democrats at a plus forty five. To be honest,

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Speaker 1: we need to I am surprised Republicans are at zero.

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Speaker 1: I thought that they would be in negative terrain if

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Speaker 1: you include boomers, they're not going to hate. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think people, you know, people have a very like they

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Speaker 1: have believed this is like a path to a better life.

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Speaker 1: And I mean the American higher education system has long

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Speaker 1: been like the envy of the world, and so it

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Speaker 1: was interesting to me. Yeah, that Republicans were at We're

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Speaker 1: still at neutral and not like overtly negative on higher education.

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Speaker 1: That was kind of a surprise. Tobacco was an interesting

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Speaker 1: one too, because Democrats actually have a more favorable view

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Speaker 1: of the tobacco industry than the Republicans, although all the

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Speaker 1: data that I've seen says there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: Republicans smoke a lot more than Democrats. That one is surprising,

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Speaker 1: So that one I wasn't quite sure. Pharmaceutical companies, this

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Speaker 1: is a shared place of contempt, good sub potential, you know,

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Speaker 1: bipartisan over lap. Here. You have them at minus eighteen

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Speaker 1: for Democrats and minus fourteen for Republicans. So it makes

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Speaker 1: me think about you know, Josh Holly and what was

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Speaker 1: ultimately like a fairly self serving up ed to sort

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Speaker 1: of like push any sort of midterm blame off of

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Speaker 1: Trump and by extension, off of himself and his own

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Speaker 1: stuff to steal nuttiness. But he did make a good

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Speaker 1: point there about like, hey guys, why are we filibustering

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Speaker 1: like lowering insulin prices? Right, this is something that is

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Speaker 1: insanely popular, overwhelming bipartisan skepticism of the pharmaceutical industry. I

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Speaker 1: would be interested to see these numbers like pre and

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Speaker 1: post COVID. I bet that there's I think there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot more skepticism in the pharmaceutical industry among Republicans

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Speaker 1: post COVID. But good to see is sort of like

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Speaker 1: bipartisan contempt there. Yeah. I also think that professional sports

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Speaker 1: number was interesting because it's quite low you know, professional

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Speaker 1: sports creating very low both for Demro that's not good

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Speaker 1: for professional sports in general. Finance, no surprise there. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: actually the one that surprised me the most was tobacco

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Speaker 1: and was sports, especially finance, though I mean I'm not

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Speaker 1: surprised either. And by the way, very close Republicans mine

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Speaker 1: is to Democrats plus two, so both at sort of

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Speaker 1: like not impressed with the finance industry. This would have

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Speaker 1: been very different not that long ago Republicans did have

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Speaker 1: and even Democrats, I mean, think about Obama when he

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Speaker 1: ran for president, it was considered by the mainstream press like,

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Speaker 1: you know, something in his favor that so many Wall

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Speaker 1: Street executives were donating to him and were stocking his administration.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this was considered like a sign of his

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Speaker 1: intellect and his seriousness. And then, of course you have

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Speaker 1: the financial crash, and then you know, you also have

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Speaker 1: throughout the years more and more scandal and just sort

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Speaker 1: of like the rot of that entire industry on display

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Speaker 1: for the whole country. And now you have a really

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Speaker 1: shared bipartisan attitude of sort of discuss towards them. So

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Speaker 1: even though I'm not surprised by those numbers, it's important

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Speaker 1: to note I bet they were very, very difficult different

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Speaker 1: not that long in the past. Yeah, absolutely correct, So

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Speaker 1: interesting to dig into these. There's a lot here that

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Speaker 1: you could look at entertainment. As I said, big partisan

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Speaker 1: gap there, you also have mining Democrats of course much

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Speaker 1: more negative, but you know, I think it also you

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Speaker 1: can see in some of these numbers what helps to

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Speaker 1: inform cable news programming. And you can also see in

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Speaker 1: these numbers some overlap where there's potential for possible bipartisan action.

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Speaker 1: So we'll see that's a good point. Either look at

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Speaker 1: where there are differences or look at where there are

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Speaker 1: actually some you know, agreement across the spectrum. Indeed, some

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Speaker 1: disturbing news for everyone out of Siberia, scientists have revived

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Speaker 1: a forty eight thousand, five hundred year old virus from

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Speaker 1: the permafrost. Let's go ahead and put this up there

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Speaker 1: on the screen. This is a long standing effort by

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Speaker 1: researchers who are trying to understand past pandemics and also

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Speaker 1: past viruses by basically extricating them from the Siberian permafrost

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Speaker 1: and then replicating them in the lab, which is what

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Speaker 1: they were able to do with this particular virus. Even

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Speaker 1: more troubling is the name. The name of this virus

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Speaker 1: is Panda VIRUSMA pandora virus, exactly in reference to Pandora's box.

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Speaker 1: So why would we facilitate that in a lab? It

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Speaker 1: was taken from fifty two feet below the bottom of

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Speaker 1: a lake in the middle of Siberia and then replicated

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Speaker 1: in the lab one of two viruses found in twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: although other one was a different type. Altogether, forty eight thousand,

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Speaker 1: you guys will all know, is a world record for

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Speaker 1: the oldest virus that has been able to have been

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Speaker 1: replicated in the lab. And what they say is the

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Speaker 1: remarkable feature of pandovirus Pandora virus is its size. It

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Speaker 1: is a type of quote giant virus, more than one

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Speaker 1: micrometer long. They say they can be even examined directly

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Speaker 1: under a microscope. Contains twenty five hundred genes, in contrast

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Speaker 1: the minuscule modern viruses that infect humans and possess no

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Speaker 1: more than ten to twenty genes. So basically, what they're

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Speaker 1: telling us is that it's huge, and it's big, and

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Speaker 1: it's old, and also we have no idea what it

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Speaker 1: does at all. And that people in France are playing

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Speaker 1: around with it in a laboratory setting. Yeah well, I

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Speaker 1: mean yeah, go and this comes because of climate change.

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Speaker 1: Means the permafrost is melting, so it's unearthing all of

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Speaker 1: these like prehistoric viruses that scientists are then collecting up

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Speaker 1: and reviving in the lab for some reason. What the researchers,

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Speaker 1: They warned it could be the tip of the iceberg.

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Speaker 1: They said, one quarter of the northern Hemisphere is underlain

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Speaker 1: by permanently frozen ground referred to as permafrost. Due to

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Speaker 1: climate warming, irreversibly thawing permafrost is releasing organic matter frozen

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Speaker 1: for up to a million years, most of which decomposes

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Speaker 1: into carbon dioxide methane, further enhancing the greenhouse effects. So

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Speaker 1: that's how you get this like follow on cycle. Part

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Speaker 1: of this organic matter also consists of revived cellular microbes

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Speaker 1: prokaryotes and unicellular eukaryotes, as well as viruses that remain

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Speaker 1: dormant since prehistorical times. So very dystopian. You can imagine

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Speaker 1: the sci fi movie of the End of the Universe

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Speaker 1: of one of these coming back to life and killing

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Speaker 1: us all. And here we are living through it gain

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Speaker 1: and function, which is they're like, well, eventually they may

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Speaker 1: be released from the permafrost, so we should just go

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Speaker 1: ahead and replicate it in the lab to find out

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Speaker 1: what it does. It was like, what could go on? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like not like that has ever happened before and

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Speaker 1: caused a global pandemic. So that's what I'm probably most

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Speaker 1: concerned about right now. I'm like, at least with the permafrost,

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Speaker 1: is a chance that we won't get there with this?

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Speaker 1: Like what do we know about the biosafety protocols of

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Speaker 1: this French lab which happens to have facilitated this also

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Speaker 1: as they even admit they have no idea what it

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Speaker 1: even does. It's like this massive strain with all these

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Speaker 1: genes could easily mutate and turn into something else. Like,

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Speaker 1: we don't need to go down this road, all right,

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Speaker 1: leave it to the masdons and the core. Apparently, according

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Speaker 1: to Global News, in twenty fourteen, the same group of

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Speaker 1: researchers unearthed a thirty thousand year old virus trapped in

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Speaker 1: the permafrost. That discovery was groundbreaking. After all that time,

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Speaker 1: the virus was still able to infect organisms. Now this

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Speaker 1: beats that record by a lot. So that was a

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand year old virus. Now we're going back to

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Speaker 1: forty eight thousand, five hundred year old virus, so almost

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand years old. And I mean, I have to

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Speaker 1: assume that as more and more of the permafrost melts,

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Speaker 1: older and older virus' prehistoric viruses will ultimately be unearthed.

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Speaker 1: So doesn't seem good. Major news over at CNN that

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Speaker 1: they sadly were forced to write up on their own website.

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Speaker 1: Let's put it up there on the screen. CNN is

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Speaker 1: beginning layoffs amid economic uncertainty cost cutting pressures from the

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Speaker 1: parent company. Chris Licked, the chief executive of CNN, announced

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Speaker 1: that hundreds of people would be laying off at the

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Speaker 1: overall organization who have been anxiously bracing ever since he

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Speaker 1: took over, and about a month ago made it clear

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people were about to get the acts.

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Speaker 1: And it really does come Chrystal from pressure from their

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Speaker 1: parent company, Warner Brothers Discovery. Discovery has sixty six billion

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Speaker 1: or so in debt that they have to pay off

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Speaker 1: over I think it's like a five year period with

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Speaker 1: the rise of interest rates and so much of what

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Speaker 1: they have to deal with as an overall business. They're like, listen,

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Speaker 1: this is just not going to work. Also, their advertising

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Speaker 1: revenue is down, even though their profits continued to go up,

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Speaker 1: largely as a result of the cable subscriber fees that

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Speaker 1: they're trying to hold on hold on to. So at

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Speaker 1: the promise the beginning, Chris Lake told the organization, He's like, no,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to have layoffs. He's like, we will

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Speaker 1: not have widespread mass layoffs. Now hundreds and hundreds of

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Speaker 1: people overall from the organization are getting fired. Now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, why don't you break down? Well, I

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Speaker 1: was just going to say, it's likely just the beginning,

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Speaker 1: but they're mostly in this round looking at paid contributors.

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Speaker 1: So I mean that's both relevant and terms of where

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Speaker 1: the businesses and they're directive to make these fairly harsh

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Speaker 1: and widespread cuts. But it will also be interesting to

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Speaker 1: see who gets cut. In terms of the potential editorial

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Speaker 1: direction of CNN. We've gotten sort of conflicting indications from

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Speaker 1: Chris Licked about how he sees all of these things.

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Speaker 1: Most of the big moves he's made thus far have

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Speaker 1: just been like shifting the deck chairs on the Titanic.

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Speaker 1: They did the new Morning Show, which is very much

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Speaker 1: like the old Morning Show except kind of worse actually

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Speaker 1: and doing even more poorly. So you know, they tried

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Speaker 1: to move Jake Tapper to primetime. That didn't work out.

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Speaker 1: They moved him back. So thus far you haven't seen

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Speaker 1: like a big editorial shift. You certainly haven't seen any

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Speaker 1: big plays for new really noteworthy talent. And as I've

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Speaker 1: been saying all along, like what all of this really

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Speaker 1: looks like here at MSNBC and over the longer term

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Speaker 1: at Fox News as well as managed to climb where

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Speaker 1: they know that their business model is built for a

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Speaker 1: previous era. They tried with CNN Plus to innovate something new,

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Speaker 1: didn't work, and I mean like instantly didn't work. And

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Speaker 1: so now they're just trying to hold on to what

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Speaker 1: they have for as long as they possibly can cut

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Speaker 1: costs make it more sustainable for the long term. So

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Speaker 1: that's kind of where they are right now. You know,

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Speaker 1: never fun to get laid after in the Holday, I

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Speaker 1: don't feel good, you know, I'm not happy that people

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Speaker 1: getting laid off. I am happy that CNN overall is suffering.

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Speaker 1: Will they choose better? They fail. Yeah, I hope they failed.

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Speaker 1: They failed to. Will they actually stick to their pledge

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Speaker 1: to not turn it into a Trump circus show? You

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Speaker 1: and I are both of the total opinion that no,

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Speaker 1: there's no way that they can resist the juice, Like

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Speaker 1: once the campaign really does begin in earnest, there is

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Speaker 1: just no way that they will be able to avoid

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Speaker 1: and slip into some of their bad habits. That's capitalism,

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Speaker 1: that's the directive that will prof from their profit mark,

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Speaker 1: you know, their need to get ratings and juice their

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Speaker 1: advertising revenue. And so yeah, they'll they'll fall right back

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Speaker 1: into those those patterns. They're not even really denying it

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Speaker 1: at this point either. We will all be right back

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Speaker 1: to where we all began very very soon. So we'll

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Speaker 1: see overall one hundreds of the layoffs so far at

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Speaker 1: the organization, possible to follow at other news organizations too,

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Speaker 1: who also have major pressures from their parent companies. So

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Speaker 1: I guess you don't like to see it for the

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Speaker 1: people involved, but you do like to see it for

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Speaker 1: the overall brands. All right, we'll see you guys later. Hey, everyone,

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Speaker 1: I'm Ken Clippinsion with Breaking Points Intercept Edition. I'm joined

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Speaker 1: today by my colleague Daniel Bogus Law, who had a

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Speaker 1: killer story yesterday about our water rights, our precious resources

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Speaker 1: here in the United States being sold to a foreign

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Speaker 1: country in a state Arizona, in which they're undergoing a

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Speaker 1: serious water shortage. Can we get Element one up there

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Speaker 1: to show everyone what the headline of the article looks like.

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Speaker 1: Lobbyists for Saudi alfalfa company desiccating Arizona was elected to

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Speaker 1: Maricopa County Board of Supervisors. So this is an actual

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Speaker 1: lobby This is a lobbyist for a Saudi company going

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Speaker 1: on to work on a state government board that has

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Speaker 1: oversight of water issues. Daniel, can you tell us what

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Speaker 1: you found? Sure? So this story is partially about corporate capture,

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Speaker 1: it's partially about foreign capital investment in the United States,

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Speaker 1: and it's also about local regional water politics. What my

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Speaker 1: story showed was that Thomas Galvin, a lobbyist for the

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Speaker 1: Rose Law Group, which is a law firm in Arizona

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Speaker 1: that represents numerous corporate interests, specifically many which are focused

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Speaker 1: on land acquisition and land rights, lobbied on behalf of Fondamont,

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Speaker 1: which is a wholly owned subsidiary of a large Saudi

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Speaker 1: Farming and Dairy Production Company. This company realized that they

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Speaker 1: could basically buy up farmland in Arizona, in a county

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Speaker 1: with very little water regulations, and by doing that they

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Speaker 1: were able to pump almost unlimited water, grow alfalfa, and

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Speaker 1: then ship that alfalfa back to Saudi Arabia onto their

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Speaker 1: dairy farms. So before he was appointed to the board,

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Speaker 1: Galvin served as a lobbyist. He appeared in the state

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Speaker 1: Assembly to advocate for fewer restrictions on monitoring of the

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Speaker 1: company's groundwater usage, and he was subsequently appointed to the

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Speaker 1: Maricopa County Board of Supervisors in two thousand and one

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Speaker 1: to fill a vacancy, then was subsequently elected in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two to fill that position again. So with water

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Speaker 1: rights and them talking about rationing and limiting the use

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Speaker 1: of water in Arizona, how is this was this an

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Speaker 1: election issue for him? I mean, you're the one that

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Speaker 1: broke it, so clearly it wasn't. But how is that not?

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Speaker 1: It was pretty shocking to see that this did not

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Speaker 1: come up. He ran with very little opposition for the seat,

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Speaker 1: But in statewide politics, this has become a big issue.

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Speaker 1: It's become a flashpoint in the governor's race. The Democratic

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Speaker 1: candidate called for an investigation into the company. But I

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Speaker 1: think really what this represents is a breakdown of any

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Speaker 1: sort of regulatory oversight, be it a foreign, foreign owned

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Speaker 1: company like like the Saudi Arabian one operating this farm,

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Speaker 1: or these massive land developers that are coming in building

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Speaker 1: houses where there should not be houses, building houses where

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Speaker 1: there's not adequate groundwater, or where there's not adequate access

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Speaker 1: to Colorado River water, and continuing to build, helping a

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Speaker 1: small handful of rich profiteers grow wealthier at the cost

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Speaker 1: of constituents, access to water and the liveability of the state.

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Speaker 1: Let me just ask you, what are the Saudis? So

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Speaker 1: they use it for alfalfa farm. So they're buying our water,

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Speaker 1: which people here need to drink, and they're not even

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Speaker 1: using it for you know, residential use in the sense

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Speaker 1: of them drinking. They're just using it for alfalfa that

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Speaker 1: then they give to livestock. Assume. Yeah, So a lot

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Speaker 1: of the coverage of this has described what's happening on

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Speaker 1: this Arizona farm as the export of water they're shipping alfalfa,

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Speaker 1: but really they're people are framing it as the wholesale

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Speaker 1: export of US water into an arid climate in Saudi Right,

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Speaker 1: that makes sense. How is this not a huge political

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Speaker 1: flashpoint because people need water to drink. This is a

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Speaker 1: precious resource that I would imagine if anything is like

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Speaker 1: of a national security concern, it's going to be stuff

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Speaker 1: that you need to drink every day to live. And

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Speaker 1: I just you would expect there to be all kind

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Speaker 1: of outrage about this sort of thing. There is lots

428
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 1: of at region, the state. I think a piece of

429
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: the complexity here is the fact that all sorts of

430
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: large corporations, whether they're developers, whether they're big agro, depend

431
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 1: on massive amounts of water pumping. So I think part

432
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 1: of the balancing act that has merged during this process

433
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: is the desire from constituents and local elected officials to

434
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 1: crack down on what they see as a foreign investment

435
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 1: in Arizona's groundwater. At the same time, their pockets are

436
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: stuffed with cash from all sorts of other interest groups

437
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: which similarly rely on massive water consumption. So once you

438
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: begin to regulate one piece of the equation, it opens

439
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: up Pandora's box for regulations that they might not be

440
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: so fonded pretty assory that I thought was really telling

441
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 1: was how this lobbyist, before he was put up for election,

442
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: he was appointed, and I think he was appointed unanimously

443
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: by the board, which tells you something. It tells you

444
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: that there is a somewhat bipartisan consensus on support for

445
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: corporate interest groups. And I think another fascinating piece of

446
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: this story is the reality that the Maricopa County Board

447
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: of Supervisors has become a flashpoint in right wing GOP

448
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: election denial politics. Right this was something we saw a

449
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: lot during the election that Trump we're seeing now the

450
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: governor is refusing to and again we're seeing it again

451
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: where there was a delay, there was an issue with

452
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 1: the voting machines, and the sort of conspiracy theorists come

453
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: out of the woodwork. But I think that a piece

454
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: of the catalyst for that conspiracy, for that anxiety, for

455
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: that madness, is the fact that time and time again,

456
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 1: even the so called moderate politicians who sit on the

457
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: Maricopa County Board of Supervisors have allied themselves with interest

458
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: groups which were opposed to constituents wants and needs. And

459
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: so when you see that happen over and over and over,

460
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 1: again people getting steamrolled by corporate interests. It breeds a

461
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: intense and deranged hostility towards the system and apparently not

462
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: even domestic American corporations. That's it's now corporations on the

463
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: other side of the world that you know, we're not

464
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: going to see anything from in terms of the money

465
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: in resources being spent on things domestically right, And you know,

466
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: I think this ties into some of your reporting where

467
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: you've shown there there's a concerted, top down effort from

468
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: Saudi leadership to to mobilize economic means as a cudgel

469
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: against political groups, namely Democrats right the power to exercise

470
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: here in Washington, it's almost tactile. It's ever. They have

471
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: so much influence over the think tanks, over the revolving

472
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: door that exists between folks in government who leave, and

473
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: I think, and you know, when I was younger report

474
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: I thought, oh, they're out of government, they're going to

475
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: tell me, you know, what was going on in person golf.

476
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: They don't want to talk about it because they're going

477
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: to get a contract from these guys or sinecure or whatever.

478
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: It is. Absolutely, and that's been the case for decades.

479
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: I mean I remember seeing a compilation of New York

480
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: Times articles stretching back decades where you know, every two

481
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: years there's a headline, Yeah, you know, Saudi is liberalizing,

482
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: Saudi leadership is liberal. Forever liberalized. You could go, you

483
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 1: could go decade by My favorite one is Thomas Friedman

484
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: that he says, he says the Arab spring the Saudi winter,

485
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: I think it was, and he's going to come and

486
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: liberate everybody. But again, what we're talking about there, right,

487
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: is a focus on Saudi leadership, right right, this top

488
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: down idea. And as your reporting showed, Uh, they've been

489
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: very successful at wielding their economic weapons against political interest

490
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: groups that they views as disaligned with their incentives. However,

491
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: what my story showed is is a window into the

492
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: way that a more diffuse economic spread in this case,

493
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: you know, in an agricultural area can also start to

494
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: creep into local politics, state politics, and the way that

495
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: you have hyper targeted foreign capital investments which you know

496
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: are going to have an influence on the bottom up

497
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: political playing field as well. Yeah, and in fact, the

498
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: Saudi regime there's been reporting to the effect that they're

499
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: interested in finding out to what extent they can get

500
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: involved in lobbying at the state and local level, particularly

501
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: in the American heartland, which is very interesting because that

502
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: is political significance to this relationship that has really become

503
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: very partisan in nature over the last several years under

504
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: the young crown Prince Muhammad bin Salmon. Think is like

505
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: age thirty five or thirty six, absolutely, and why why

506
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't they? I mean, you look at our political landscape,

507
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: you look at the infighting, and you also you see

508
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: the complete willingness for interested parties, domestic parties to get

509
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: in on the action if they can make money lobbying,

510
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: if they can make and our laws are so weak.

511
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 1: I know, it's funny. I was talking to a retired

512
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: CIA officer was telling me recently that when Citizens United passed,

513
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: he worked in the Russia desk. He was saying that

514
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: they were picking up chatter that the Russians became very

515
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: interested at that point in what they can suddenly legally

516
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: do to move money around. And that's not to say

517
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: that just the Russians are doing it, you know, all

518
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: sorts of foreign actors are. That was just his area

519
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: of expertise. But it was so funny to me that

520
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: they're like completely cognizant of what this means, the fact

521
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: that you can just flood the political system with money

522
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: and just you know, overnight or thinking of how do

523
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: we take advantage of this? Absolutely, and you know, you

524
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: look at the few weak enforcement tools that we do have,

525
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: things like the Foreign Agent Registration Act, which are of

526
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: course selectively applied by the Department of Justice, which are

527
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: even when they are applied, often result in comparatively paltry finds.

528
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: It reminds me of like Foye. It's kind of like, yeah,

529
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: if you want, like please adhere to this, we'd like

530
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: it if you did, right, And I think the reason

531
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: why you see something like far in such a weekend

532
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: state is because everyone wants a piece of the pie. Right,

533
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: If you target one hostile foreign entity, then those same sanctions,

534
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: those same finds, could be levied someone on your district

535
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: who's slinging you cats and who you need to win reelection.

536
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: One of my favorite parts of the story, and this

537
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: gets to what you were saying before about how they

538
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: use try to use forms of political influence as a cudgel,

539
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: was how the lobbyist and involved in all this tried

540
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: to say that it was racist to think, hey, maybe

541
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: Americans should have American water, maybe that shouldn't go. Can

542
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: you explain how that. I think you said something along

543
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: the lines of, you know, attacking this farm is dishonest

544
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: at best and racist. I think what was the rationale?

545
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: Like quote, well, you know, it was like you just

546
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: hate brown people because you would like water to belong

547
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: to the people that live on top of it. I

548
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: think I think you know, he was pulling out all

549
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: the stops. I mean, if you read through his his testimony,

550
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: trying to block oh this is before the state legislature. Yeah, yeah,

551
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: trying to block you know, pretty pretty standard water monitoring

552
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: in a in a largely unread This wasn't even like

553
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: you can't sell. It's kind of like, let's just monitor

554
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: what the levels are. Uh. And you know he's pulling

555
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: out the stops. He was saying, this could disclose you know, uh, proprietary, corporate,

556
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: informal with that. Yeah, I mean you see, uh you

557
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: really looking at his testimony, you know, you hold it

558
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: up next to the reality that you know, Arizona's groundwater

559
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: I think has declined by fifty feet in the past

560
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: ten years. You know, this is this is this is

561
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: non intrusive, ask it's not big government coming in and

562
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: even regulating you. This was this was the first step

563
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: of saying, you know, we need more monitoring, right. But

564
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: I love what his testimony to the state legislature about

565
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: what you know, we can't do this, guys. Was the

566
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: particular language. U, this is very funny. He's like, Okay,

567
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: not not now. It's kind of like he's not even

568
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: going to try to say that. It's that it's too

569
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: far because it's so minimal. He's like, not now. And

570
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: then there was another phrase in the article where he

571
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: was like he was like he's like, oh, it's going

572
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: to hurt these poor farmers, and it's going to hurt

573
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: their proprietary methods. Like going in there with the ruler

574
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: to measure what the water levels are is like going

575
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: to be some top secret thing that gets out and

576
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: ruins your business. Like what how does this pass muster

577
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: with anybody? I don't understand, right, And that's the point.

578
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: It's about basic measures, you know. It is not about

579
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: barring any foreign investment. It is not about xenophobia. It

580
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: is about creating a system of checks to ensure that

581
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: first and foremost, the people who rely on that groundwater

582
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: are served. And as the article also points out, you know,

583
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors doesn't really have that

584
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: much jurisdiction in their county over water, right. They're different

585
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: regulations for Maracopa versus County where the Fontamont farm is located. However,

586
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: it offers an insight into the fact that this person

587
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: comes out of a career, comes out of a law

588
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: firm that has a host of clients with specific interests, right,

589
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: and now he finds himself in a place where he's

590
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: overseeing a water dispute where Colorado River is running dry.

591
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: A town where local residents in Maricopa County used to

592
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: draw their water from is saying we're out. The spigot's

593
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: getting shut off no more. They're trying to figure out

594
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: a new plan, whether they should bring in a private

595
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: utility company to supply water, whether they can strike a

596
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: deal with folks on the reservation nearby to haul water.

597
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: But you see the fabric of all these interest groups,

598
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: and you think to yourself, the person who is mediating

599
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: between these is still employed at a law firm being

600
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: paid by the biggest interest groups. Some of the biggest

601
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: interest groups in the state. And again, I think that

602
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: is where a lot of the distrust that you know,

603
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: some say began with Trump, but I think goes back

604
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: much earlier comes from and began. Yeah. Once again, reality

605
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: outpaces our worst satires of how scary dystopian the future

606
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: is going to be. I was just thinking reading your

607
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: story about the whole water world picture of like these

608
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: these wars for water. Turns out we're not even going

609
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: to put up a fight for that water. We're just

610
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: gonna let these foreign multinational corporations hoover it all up. Yeah.

611
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: And in fact, you know, water's futures trading has become

612
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: this massssive new industry, right, just speculative trading around, right,

613
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: speculative trading and also wildly dangerous experiments into water futures derivatives,

614
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: complex financial products which are packaged and repackaged and pegged

615
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: to proprietary information based on California water levels and prices,

616
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: And the trading of these commodities at least tied to

617
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: the California Water index has not you know, exploded yet,

618
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: but it offers a window into what might might be

619
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: coming down the line. Perfect. The reality once again outstrips

620
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: our worst dystopias. I was just thinking of water wars,

621
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: the idea that you know, as water becomes a precious resource,

622
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: all these countries is going to be at war with

623
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: each other. Turns out we're not even gonna put up

624
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: a fight. This stuff is just gonna be handed over

625
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: to foreign multinational corporations for profit. Yeah. Absolutely, And I

626
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: think you know a piece of the endgame. If you

627
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: look at what's happening in California, there have been some

628
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: tentative dips into the idea of creating these complex water

629
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: derivatives where you have, you know, a water index based

630
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: in California, and then you have more and more complex

631
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: wrapped products and trusts and other financial instruments to speculate

632
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: off the price of water. And obviously we know from

633
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: other financial crashes when you create very complicated I don't

634
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about financial products actually tied. I mean,

635
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: we haven't seen them tied to natural resource. We're about to.

636
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: It's usually recipe for disaster. So yeah, there's systemic risk

637
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: and trading. But then it's going to drive the price

638
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: up too for everybody, right, Yeah, it could certainly drive

639
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 1: the price up, and it also opens up a new

640
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: avenue for foreign foreign you know, investment in what is

641
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: now an easily tradable financial product in a way that

642
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: is even easier to dip your beacon than you know,

643
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 1: buying up farmland in Arizona. Awesome. So water as bigcoin,

644
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: watercoin water. We're gonna have watercoin to look for it.

645
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: But we'll have Dan there to report on it as

646
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: it all goes down. I appreciate your joining me, Dean,

647
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. All right. I'm Maximilian Alvarez. I'm

648
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: the editor in chief of the Real News Network and

649
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: host of the podcast Working People. And this is the

650
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: art of class war on breaking points. Well, here we are.

651
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: Another chapter in the saga of the crisis in the

652
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: US freight rail industry is being written in blood before

653
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 1: our eyes this week, after three years of stalled negotiations

654
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: between the country's freight rail carriers and the twelve unions

655
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: representing over one hundred thousand railroad workers. After weathering a long, contentious,

656
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: excruciating process of clearing all the stages outlined in the

657
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: Railway Labor Act to reach the point where strikes or

658
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: lockouts on the railroads could legally take place, after months

659
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: of union members reviewing and voting on a tenet of

660
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: agreement that was reached just hours before strikes or lockouts

661
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: were set to begin in September, and after four of

662
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: the twelve unions voted that tenet of agreement down, four

663
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 1: unions that represent a majority of workers on the railroads,

664
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: we have once again been staring down the barrel of

665
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,439
Speaker 1: a potential national rail shutdown that was expected to begin

666
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: as early as December ninth. But as it turns out,

667
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm sad to say, many workers and

668
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: bosses in the rail industry expected this to happen the

669
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 1: entire time. President Biden, the most pro union president you've

670
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: ever seen, let the mass drop this week and urged

671
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: Congress to override the democratic will of rail workers and

672
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: their right to withhold their labor and force a contract

673
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: down their throats to quote avert a rail strike, which

674
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: Congress has the power to do under the Railway Labor Act.

675
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: As Emily Cochrane reported on Wednesday at The New York

676
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: Times quote, the House on Wednesday resoundingly approved legislation to

677
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 1: avert a nationwide rail strike by imposing a labor agreement

678
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: between rail companies and their workers. As lawmakers rushed to

679
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: shield the economy from the threat of a holiday season

680
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: works stoppage and prevent a disruption in shipping across the country.

681
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: Acting quickly the day after President Biden made a personal

682
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: appeal at the White House, the House passed a measure

683
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: that would force the rail companies and employees to abide

684
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: by a tenant of agreement that the Biden administration helped

685
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 1: broker earlier this year, which increased pay and set more

686
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: flexible schedules for workers. The bill passed on a bipartisan

687
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: vote of two hundred and ninety to one hundred and

688
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: thirty seven. It goes next to the Senate, where leaders

689
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: in both parties have indicated they would move quickly to

690
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: avoid a disruption to the nation's rail service, But with

691
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: liberal Democrats threatening to withhold their votes unless the legislation

692
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: granted additional paid leave, a key demand of workers, the

693
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: House also considered and approved a separate measure to add

694
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: seven days of compensated sick time to the compact. That

695
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 1: measure passed largely on party lines, two hundred and twenty

696
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: one to two hundred and seven. As Democrats senate to

697
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: the Senate with the support of just three Republicans, Representatives

698
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: John CatCo of New York, Don Bacon of Nebraska, and

699
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania end quote. So what does this

700
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 1: all mean? What happens next? What will this move by

701
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: Biden and Congress mean for the rail industry and for

702
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: workers struggled to get even the bare minimum of what

703
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 1: they deserve. While corporate media is predictably relying on armchair

704
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: pundits and politicians and industry goals to pontificate on these questions,

705
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: our message here at Breaking Points and at the Real

706
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: News is the same as always, Let's see what the

707
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: workers themselves have to say so to talk about all

708
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: of this, I'm honored to be joined today by Merrilee Taylor.

709
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: Merrie worked on the railroads for over thirty years and

710
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: retired earlier this year from her post as an engineer

711
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: for BNSF Railway, but she is still an active member

712
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: and activist for Railroad Workers United. Here's my interview with Merrilee,

713
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: which I recorded Wednesday night from the Real News Network

714
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: studio in Baltimore. Merrily Taylor, thank you so much for

715
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: joining us today on Breaking Points. I really appreciate it.

716
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: Thank you for asking us to participate. I mean, I

717
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: know that you've been you've been running around doing interview

718
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: after interview, and I'm so grateful to you for making

719
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: time to do this with everything going on, you know,

720
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 1: for everyone watching. We're recording this late Wednesday night, and

721
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: so we're going to try to give y'all up to

722
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: date information. But of course, as you know, news is

723
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 1: coming out very rapidly, so you know, there may be

724
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: developments in this story by the time that you see

725
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: this interview. But you know, Merrilee, I just wanted to

726
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,439
Speaker 1: sort of start, you know, given today's news. Again, we're

727
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: recording this on Wednesday. So we heard earlier today about Congress,

728
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: you know, at the urging of President Biden, you know,

729
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: pushing these two bills through the House pas asking them

730
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: over to the Senate, one that you know is very

731
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: obviously going to pass, which is going to attempt to

732
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: force a contract down workers' throats and end this three

733
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 1: long year dispute. And then a second one that looks

734
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: like it's dead on arrival, but you know, we'll see

735
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 1: that is hopefully going to secure more paid sick days

736
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: for railroad workers. So all of this news has been

737
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: coming out over the course of the day, and I

738
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: just wanted to start this interview by you know, asking,

739
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: you know, after watching this news unfold, given that you

740
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: know you and and your fellow railroad workers have been

741
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: in this contract fight for three damn years, can you

742
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: just tell us a bit about how you're feeling right now,

743
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: what you're hearing from other folks on the railroads. And

744
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: I guess what you most want the public to know

745
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: about what work how workers are doing right now. Well,

746
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: I think it has been an interesting few days. My

747
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: reaction is equal to that of many of my co workers,

748
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: former and current friends, co workers that on the railroad,

749
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: other people I meet on the railroad, which is unmitigated

750
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: rage at the idea that the President of the United

751
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: States can step in in an addictatorial and tyrannical manner,

752
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: cut across that absolute guaranteed democratic rights that we enjoy

753
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: as workers and citizens of this country. Our rights are

754
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 1: codified in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. Those

755
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: rights give us, Those guarantees give us the right to

756
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: organize on the job, to organize into unions, toize freedom

757
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: of association, to organize ourselves into political and economic and

758
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: labor organizations. All of which I think are unions have

759
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: to be in order to get anything accomplished in this

760
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: day and age. But we're guaranteed that so any attempt

761
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: to tell us we can't strike should be met with deep,

762
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: deep resistance, deep opposition publicly loudly and visibly as well.

763
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 1: And there are many other ways to do that. For example,

764
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: I did go on some of the letter writing sites.

765
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: More Perfect Union for example, had one, or w U

766
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: site had one where you just go and you could say,

767
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: speak to your representatives, which I did several times, and

768
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: other people too, which I think is fine, but it's

769
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: certainly not the answer there. It has this must be

770
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: a public campaign to win people. For our perspective, I

771
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: think that any worker in this country and frankly around

772
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 1: the world is looking at this strike. We have rail

773
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: workers in Britain that have been on strike or doing

774
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 1: rotating kind of strikes. There's workers in many other railroads

775
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: I don't even know, trying to scour the press to

776
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 1: keep up with around the world that see this fight

777
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: as their fight, because it is. It's ultimately all it

778
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: belongs as the property of all of us to learn from,

779
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: to gain experience from, and so on. So there's the rage,

780
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: and I think it is deep. It is very deep.

781
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: It was reflected as far back as January this year

782
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: where on BNSF one hundred percent of the BLT the

783
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: Engineer's Union, and ninety nine point five percent of the

784
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: smart TD the Conductor's Union, voted to strike over the

785
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: implementation of an arbitrary at draconian attendants policy that BNSF did.

786
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: We forced a vote within our international union to strike. Period,

787
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: we are striking, and of course the railroads, as they

788
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: always do, went to court. We were enjoyed and we

789
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 1: were further in joy from having public activities away from

790
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: the railroad. They it was it was a deep attack

791
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: on the freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, free of association.

792
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: And we and at the the end of that time

793
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: period we did beget to have activities. Different groups I

794
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: say we in a very broad context, my brothers and

795
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: sisters and other organizations wives uh for it for to

796
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: be fully informed about the railroad. I can't remember their

797
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: exact name. Different organizations like that rank and file, grassroots types, uh,

798
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 1: the maintenance away workers from the bmw D. They they

799
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: had picket lines and different locations even around Chicago, trying

800
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: to explain what the issues were to people going by,

801
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 1: people coming in to work, and so on. So there's that,

802
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: I think, and I think there's it's not just frustration.

803
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: I think it's directed anger toward the Biden administration in

804
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: my as it should be for spearheading this attack against us.

805
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: And I think that every other union unionist, every other

806
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: union member in this country, in the United States itself,

807
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: is also looking at this because if they can do

808
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: it to us, they ensure as do it to you,

809
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: every single one of you that a nurse, the nurses

810
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: need to go on strike to fight for safe patient

811
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 1: staffing levels. Oh no, we have COVID you're enjoying from

812
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: striking back to work. We can't afford to allow you

813
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: to go on strike. And that's the mindset. Allow us,

814
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: we only and we'll see where it actually ends up being.

815
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 1: Who How this all works. I think it's very fluid

816
00:46:55,239 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: and it's very volatile because the primary conditions of the

817
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: work work life balance they call it really well, we

818
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: call it is quality of life issues. Being able to

819
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: have time away from the railroad, away from the draconian

820
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: attendance policies, to recharge, to rest, to perhaps recover from

821
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: COVID or any other illness that's coming down the pike

822
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: on all sides right now. To be able to take

823
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: care of our children, our significant others, one or more

824
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: others that whatever kind of relationships we're in. We're social

825
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: beings and we bear responsibility too, things like that that

826
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: we can't do. People are missing the birth of their child.

827
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: This sounds incredible, but it's true. We miss funerals of

828
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: our friends, of our relatives. Because of this. We can't

829
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: afford it, not afford monetarily to take off. We don't

830
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: get paid for taking off most unless it's a paid

831
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: time off other thing. But we just can't get away.

832
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: We are at the behalf of the railroad under the

833
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 1: BNSF policies for every minute of every day of every

834
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: week of every month, with only one twenty four hour

835
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: period of being able to take off without being victimized

836
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: and punished by this by the carrier for doing that.

837
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 1: They it has surf like conditions. I know a lot

838
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 1: of us didn't pay too much attention in high school history,

839
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: but I'd encourage everybody to go back and read it,

840
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: because this is what it is. They virtually own you.

841
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: They want to virtually own you. So if you're not,

842
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: you must be under this attendnis policy waiting on them

843
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: to call, because they can't. They refuse to attempt to

844
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 1: even produce a lineup that will give you an idea

845
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: of what trains are going to run. I mean they don't.

846
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: They have line but it means nothing because some trains

847
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: never show up, I mean never. They're ghost trains. We

848
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: call them ghost trains. They've been on there for twenty

849
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: four hours. Or we're gonna call, and you organize. If

850
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: you're the one that's the next to be called, we

851
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: organize our lives around that. So if you don't call

852
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: a train for two days and I was waiting to

853
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: be called, let's say at seven o'clock tonight, Now you're

854
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: not gonna run a train that you kept saying you're

855
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: gonna run. You're not gonna run anything else till tomorrow morning.

856
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 1: So I will have been up all day waiting on

857
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: this call. Now you're gonna call any minute, because they

858
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: can call any time, whether it's scheduled or not. And

859
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: you can't really sleep. So these are day after day

860
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 1: after day of this kind of physical, mental, emotional, soul

861
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 1: wrenching grind that has brought us to this point because

862
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: of the railroads and transigence and doing that, I've also

863
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 1: just wanted to raise that we have gotten a lot

864
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: of messages of solidarity. Number of unions have put out

865
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: their own statements, their own press releases. One of the

866
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: ones that warned by heart personally was an International Longshoreman

867
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: a warehouse workers union on the West Coast, who yes,

868
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: they I some years ago. I actually I knew. I

869
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: had a personal relationship with somebody that worked as a

870
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: longshoreman and was in the IW and I was just

871
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 1: astounded all the time at the strength of the union,

872
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 1: the fact that they will not handle goods that are

873
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: being struck. For example, so if John Deere during the

874
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: John Deere strike, if they attempted to load any of

875
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:57,760
Speaker 1: those containers filled with their tractors or whatever their equipment,

876
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: longshoremen have the contract right to say I'm not loading that.

877
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: So that shows the power that exists in possibility, potential

878
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: that we need to figure out for ourselves and our

879
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: own union how to use. But they're very strong in

880
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 1: terms of solidarity with other workers, and they have been

881
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: made a very clear statement in solidarity with us. No

882
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: I saw that statement too, and you're right and characteristic

883
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: ILWU fashion right. It didn't mince words, you know, I

884
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: thought it was beautifully and succinctly put. Everyone should go

885
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: check that out. And everyone should definitely go support the

886
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 1: longshore workers who have their own contract fight or in

887
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: the midst of their own contract fights. We need to

888
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: show up for them as well, just like we need

889
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,879
Speaker 1: to show up for the ups workers later this year.

890
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: Just like we need to keep showing up for you know,

891
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: striking coal miners at Warrior met Cole who have been

892
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 1: on strike for over six hundred days at this point,

893
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: striking workers at CNCH Industrial who have been on strike

894
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: for seven months in Iowa and Wisconsin and are still

895
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: holding the line as the weather gets colder in the

896
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: holidays approach. We need to keep showing up for Starbucks

897
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: workers who are having their rights violated left and right,

898
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: with Starbucks firing union organizers for the flimsiest excuses, closing

899
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: unionized stores, all for the purpose of squashing the grassroots

900
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: unionization effort. We have to keep fighting for one another.

901
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: We can't let up because the bosses certainly aren't. The

902
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: carriers have been intransitent, stonewalled us every step of the

903
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: way of negotiations in the first place are very long

904
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 1: drawn out rigamaroles. You have to go through all these

905
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: different steps. I can't even remember how many different how

906
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: many they are more than a dozen, let me put

907
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: it that way, over periods of time. I can't remember

908
00:52:56,719 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: how this is another cooling off period. I'm so cold,

909
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm in the I do not need to be cooled

910
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,720
Speaker 1: off anymore. These are all things codified under the Railway

911
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: Labor Act, passed in nineteen twenty four. One of the

912
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: tangential issues that have come through this struggle is some

913
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: people want to place their attention on overturning repealing this

914
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: law as well. We should as as well, we should

915
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 1: so that so this is just a peak of a

916
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: scene in time, but there's it's like an iceberg. The

917
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 1: big majority is the part that you have that you

918
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 1: haven't seen yet, that's been going on, but it's not

919
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 1: as visible and not and hasn't been as public as

920
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: we can be. So I think that it's absolutely You're

921
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 1: absolutely right that we have to get our story out.

922
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: We have to talk to people, we have to name

923
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 1: names as to what they're doing, who's doing what, and

924
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: what it actually is, and I'll start with that name

925
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 1: and names. Joe Biden can no longer claim to be

926
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: pro union, and as I have explained to other interviews,

927
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 1: he is not pro union. He is anti union because

928
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:26,399
Speaker 1: when the Democratic Party, with him as the premier, since

929
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: he's the president, one of the premier leaders at any rate,

930
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: when they decided to intervene in this strike, they didn't

931
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: decide to intervene on the side of the workers. They

932
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: decided to intervene on the side of the carriers and

933
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: their labor Secretary, Marty Walsh, has been going around the country,

934
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: including to the Blet National Convention recently, giving speeches about

935
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: how great the contract is, how much he and the

936
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: other Democratic Party individuals have done for us, none of

937
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 1: which I agree with that and I'm not saying that

938
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: there aren't members of either elect There are members of

939
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: both electoral parties that have spoken in favor of rail

940
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: workers and have voted. There were I believe it was

941
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 1: seven Republicans voted in the House for the seven days

942
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: of paid sickly, including Marco Robo, Marco Rubyo efcuse me,

943
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 1: I'm tired and stood up and spoke out and said

944
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 1: he wouldn't vote to ram this down our throats. So

945
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: that's not to say that these are leaders, because I

946
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: really don't think they lead working people particularly at all.

947
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 1: But it shows the ground swell. It's almost something you

948
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: can feel. It's almost if you pay attention to your

949
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,240
Speaker 1: feet on the ground, you will feel the tectonic plates

950
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:01,399
Speaker 1: of the earth moving under the crust. I think there's

951
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 1: a and workers especially have that instinctual nature. We see

952
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 1: something like this and it it affects them, whether or

953
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 1: not they can articulate what that means, or whether or

954
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: not they uh may may lead them immediately to action

955
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: or whatever, but there is a tectonic activity happening here

956
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 1: that we need to recognize as as hopeful or potential

957
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: leaders of these movements, as as workers, as unionists, certainly

958
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: as someone who thinks about politics, using in a generic

959
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: term in a very broad way national and international and

960
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 1: so on. I think this is a great It's a

961
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 1: certainly a great time to be alive, and a horrid

962
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: time to work on the railroad. I mean that that

963
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 1: is the reality, but it's a great time to to

964
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 1: be alive. As as as there is where there's action,

965
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,359
Speaker 1: where there's motion, where there is sentiment, there is there's

966
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 1: room for action to better our conditions, to lead the

967
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 1: way for other unions, and to join with other unions

968
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: and UH and other workers who are not yet in

969
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: unions to fight together. It's a tremendous chance for solidarity

970
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: for anybody with a heart. Yeah. No, I think that's

971
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: that's you know, beautifully and powerfully put right. I mean,

972
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,439
Speaker 1: you know, there there's a you know, a great sort

973
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: of metaphor that the great non violent activists, George Lakey

974
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 1: gives that He says, like, you know, people talk about

975
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: polarization in times like these as a as a terrifying thing,

976
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: and it can be, and it is right, because the

977
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: extremes are are kind of you know, getting more extreme.

978
00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: The center can't hold. But what he said is that

979
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: you know, know, polarization in or you know, like you

980
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: were talking about this sort of movement, energy, this sort

981
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: of rage, like that's a furnace, Like that is how

982
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: you put the metal in that furnace, right, and that

983
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: makes it malleable. That means that the future is still

984
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: within our hands to shape in times like these. And

985
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: I think that when people ask me all the time,

986
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: it's like, well, what happens now, where's the labor movement going?

987
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: I say, you tell me that answer depends on how

988
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: the answer that question depends on what we all do

989
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: right now, right, And I would just I wanted to

990
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: sort of, you know, pick up on that front because

991
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 1: I know I can't keep you for too much longer.

992
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: But what happens now? So I mean that in two respects,

993
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: Like in the immediate sense on the railroads, right, people

994
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 1: are still wondering this is a strike still on the table.

995
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: What is the best you know, outcome out of you know,

996
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 1: Congress sort of going through the process that it's going

997
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: through right now. Are people hopeful that more sick days

998
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: will come of this? So what's going to happen now

999
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: in the immediate sense? And what is this forced contract

1000
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: and this preemptively broken strike you know, going to mean

1001
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 1: for the industry itself and for workers like yourself moving forward?

1002
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: As to what's next? Is a strike off the table? Well,

1003
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: I'm I'm an individual who is active in the RWU

1004
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: as well as with other union activities and so on,

1005
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,919
Speaker 1: and I am not looking for any individual or any

1006
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 1: small group to decide that they are going in the

1007
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 1: absence of a of a fuller group that they're going

1008
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: to take any individual action because that is a good work. However,

1009
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: the discussion that's going on is laying the basis for

1010
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 1: a true action, a true mass action. Whether that means

1011
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: a strike or not is a tactical question. I think

1012
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: we've got to be clear that tactical questions are tactical questions.

1013
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: Principle is principal the fight. If we're clear on what

1014
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 1: we're going for, we can discuss how we're going to

1015
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: get there, what's the best way, and we have forms

1016
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 1: for doing that within our unions, within our organizations. There's

1017
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: many places to have that, and you play a big

1018
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 1: role in it. So I don't think a strike is

1019
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 1: off the table. The rulers and the railroad barons would

1020
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 1: hope it is. That's what their game has been from

1021
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: the beginning. For a group of people that does not

1022
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 1: create profit, they're sure are worried about us not bothering

1023
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 1: to show up. I mean it has to be one

1024
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: or the other, doesn't it. But we know that we're

1025
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 1: the ones that create all the value. Warren Buffett creates

1026
01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 1: no value. Katie Farmer, the CEO, creates no value. All

1027
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: those frontline supervisors I think pretty much reduced the value

1028
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 1: because they just suck up the paycheck and have nothing

1029
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 1: to do with through railroad, I mean, like other jobs.

1030
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure so, So the question's not settled and who will?

1031
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: And I think the question has to be who is

1032
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: the deciding vote? And I'm not talking about condress. I'm

1033
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: talking about in general. There's only one deciding vote, and

1034
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 1: that's the vote of the ranks of labor. And I'm

1035
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 1: not talking about putting an X on a ballot. What

1036
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: I'm talking about is if we don't work, the railroads,

1037
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: don't make money. And that is the only thing to understand.

1038
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: And that's why the strike has been a valuable lesson

1039
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: for a lesson and learned and also a valuable in

1040
01:01:56,640 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 1: our quiver with our arrows, important tool that we have

1041
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: an utter right to and we have to stand up

1042
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: and defend. So I don't think it is off. Will

1043
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: this six seven days sickly pass? I don't make predictions,

1044
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: but I think that they're looking for cover because the

1045
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: cover's been taken away from the Congress. Everybody that votes,

1046
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 1: both the House and the Senate, everybody that votes will

1047
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: be recorded, and hundreds of thousands of workers in this

1048
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: country for the first time for many of them want

1049
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: to see what these guys do and want to hold

1050
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 1: them to it. I also have read a number of

1051
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: different articles that appeared from workers in the railroad talking

1052
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: about how they campaigned for Biden, and openly and publicly

1053
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 1: and in the media are saying, I made a mistake

1054
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 1: that will never happen again. I campaigned for him. I

1055
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 1: went door to door in the in the all these months,

1056
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: several of and and you you actually would know a

1057
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: couple of them, and there and this and that. We

1058
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: get slapped in the face, we're told we we're basically

1059
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 1: told we have no citizen rights. So the ramifications that

1060
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: we're just beginning to see, I think they could be anywhere.

1061
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: But I think the discussion isn't going to end here.

1062
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 1: What it tells me is that railroad workers are for

1063
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: the first time. Some younger workers are for the first time,

1064
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: seeing that we've had forty years. We haven't had a

1065
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: decent contract since the mid seventies. Some would say in

1066
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 1: the early seventy. I can't remember the exact date, because

1067
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 1: the more information I get, something has a fallout where

1068
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 1: I say, I just can't remember all of statistics, so

1069
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: none of this is settled. And just the final point

1070
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 1: in that the fundamental issue, the reason that we voted

1071
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 1: to strike in January over this attendant's policy, the reason

1072
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 1: that we all voted in every union to strike over

1073
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: this tentative agreement, is over the quality of life issues.

1074
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 1: If those are not addressed in a fundamental way and

1075
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 1: not resolved to give us a better quality of life,

1076
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: this is going to keep that. You cannot tamp this.

1077
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 1: You could tamp it down, but you cannot kill the

1078
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 1: flame because the objective conditions are still there, are still

1079
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: not dealt with, So that even if they do the

1080
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: six seven days of paid lead and they force the

1081
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: agreement down our throats, I can pretty much assure you

1082
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 1: the fight is not over because nothing has been resolved,

1083
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 1: and nothing has been resolved on the plus side for

1084
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 1: us in a fundamental way, so that those will continue

1085
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 1: and they will continue to be a sticking point, and

1086
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: we will continue to work to fight to get our

1087
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 1: story out to let people know. I just had one

1088
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: other little thing I wanted to say, which is that

1089
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: we railroad workers in r WU and not across the board,

1090
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 1: we are fighting for the safety of ourselves, our co workers,

1091
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 1: and every single one of you that's watching this. Because

1092
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: if I'm fatigued to where I should not be working,

1093
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 1: which NASA has proven through many studies, that being at

1094
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 1: the level of fatigue that we are on that we

1095
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 1: have on a regular basis is worse than being legally drunk,

1096
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 1: which is point eight in Illinois where I live, so

1097
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 1: by law, I can't drive impaired by by alcohol, which

1098
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: makes sense to me, but I can I can be

1099
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 1: so exhausted that my reaction time is worse than being

1100
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 1: dead drunk. So if you're a little town in rural

1101
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: Illinois and I go through on a train, you get

1102
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:21,520
Speaker 1: rest assured that I'm paying as close attention as I

1103
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 1: can to make sure that you are your house is

1104
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 1: not engulfed in an oil canned blaze or or whatever

1105
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: that I am, and I take that responsibility seriously, and

1106
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 1: the railroad bosses have have really tried to convince us

1107
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: not to take that seriously. Well, unlike you know, it's

1108
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 1: another point that is just so maddening about all of this.

1109
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna wrap things up in one second because

1110
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 1: I want to let you go. But you know, everyone's

1111
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: like kind of running around with their hands up saying, Oh,

1112
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 1: thank god we averted quote unquote a national rail strike.

1113
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 1: It would have been catastrophic. And what I want to

1114
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: stress for anyone watching and listening to this, as workers

1115
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 1: on the railroads have been telling me repeatedly, is that

1116
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 1: you're gonna get the effect of a strike whether you

1117
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 1: want it or not. And what I mean by that

1118
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 1: is that as merely is saying, if we don't address

1119
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: any of these quality of life issues, any of these

1120
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 1: workplace safety issues that workers have been screaming about, that

1121
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 1: the corporate greed of the rail carriers has been like

1122
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 1: making worse year after year after year. And after this

1123
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: process has played out, the rail carriers, what incentive do

1124
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 1: they have to change their ways? If this is if

1125
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 1: they're gonna just get everything that they want with Congress's help.

1126
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 1: So things aren't gonna get better on their own. Everyone's

1127
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 1: expecting them to just get worse unless workers fight back.

1128
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 1: But what I mean when I say you're gonna get

1129
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 1: the effect of a strike is that workers are already

1130
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 1: quitting in reportedly record numbers. They're gonna keep quitting. People

1131
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 1: keep telling me they're like, if this is how this

1132
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 1: all ends, I'm out. I can't. I can't make it

1133
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 1: to retirement. Like this job is too much, the Jaconian

1134
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 1: attendance policies are too much. Being on call twenty four seven,

1135
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: three sixty five is too much. I want to see

1136
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 1: my family. I want to see my kids grow up.

1137
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 1: So you're going to see more of the of that talent,

1138
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 1: more of that skill, more of those accruede years of experience,

1139
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 1: just leave an industry that is already having a hard

1140
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 1: time hiring and retaining people. So what's that going to mean.

1141
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:29,759
Speaker 1: It's going to mean more slow downs, more trains lying idle,

1142
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 1: more ports backed up, more delays with the essential products

1143
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: that we depend on, higher prices for all of that.

1144
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:40,719
Speaker 1: So celebrate if you want, but we didn't avert shit,

1145
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: and in fact, we didn't avert anything. Workers had their

1146
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: strike preemptively broken by President Biden and Congress, And with that,

1147
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:52,240
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, merely just by a way

1148
01:08:52,320 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: a quick rounding out. You know, you've been so amazing

1149
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 1: and I can't thank you enough for chatting with us today.

1150
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 1: So as I always try to end every intervie, I

1151
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:02,560
Speaker 1: just wanted to ask, what can folks out there do

1152
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 1: to show solidarity with you and your brothers and sisters

1153
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:10,519
Speaker 1: on the railroads. And you know where where should the

1154
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:15,519
Speaker 1: labor movement go from here? Well, in terms of I

1155
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:19,679
Speaker 1: think there are some basic solidarity measures that everybody can take.

1156
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 1: Anybody who's in any professional organization and a union can

1157
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 1: certainly discuss or invite one of us to speaker, bring

1158
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,600
Speaker 1: it up on your own the issues that exists and

1159
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 1: asks for solidarity. Were we to strike at any point,

1160
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 1: I would hope that everybody who wants to show solidarity

1161
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 1: would show up to the nearest rail yard with your

1162
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 1: own handmaid sign supporting rail workers, because that once, if

1163
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: there is a strike, the strike is won or lost

1164
01:09:55,240 --> 01:10:00,120
Speaker 1: on the picket line in battle, whether that means in

1165
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 1: the political sense or in any other sense, that's where

1166
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 1: it is. And to win the support of our fellow

1167
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 1: workers around the country and seeing them in action, it

1168
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: just it inspires everybody. It inspires me to see. I mean,

1169
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 1: I could go back many years, so I don't want

1170
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 1: to sound like I'm ninety, but I am of retirement age.

1171
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:30,280
Speaker 1: But so you know, I from strikes like the United

1172
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 1: Food and Commercial Workers in Iowa. A tunnel, Iowa where

1173
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,280
Speaker 1: I traveled from the West coast just to show up

1174
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:42,240
Speaker 1: because I wanted them to know that even us, we

1175
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 1: support this fight, all of those kinds of fights. So

1176
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 1: the coal miners you refer to, the Alabama coal miners,

1177
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: the Amazon workers, the Starbucks workers, those are concrete actions

1178
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 1: that you can take. You can discuss it. I would

1179
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 1: like to see some churches coming out and saying, Biden,

1180
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 1: back up, back up, You don't get to decide this.

1181
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 1: We support the workers. I think there are many organizations

1182
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 1: that people live and or not living, but around the

1183
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 1: areas in which they live, and that they participate in

1184
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:23,559
Speaker 1: civil uh civic whatever. And that's that's a good place

1185
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 1: to start. Yeah, And and I want to ask your

1186
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 1: your viewership to ask us for solidarity too. If you are,

1187
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:39,519
Speaker 1: if you're fighting as a especially as a trade unionist

1188
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:44,360
Speaker 1: in in whatever industry or whatever, to organize whatever it is,

1189
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 1: reach out to Railroad Workers United. And I hope we

1190
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 1: can put a little blurb up somewhere with with the website,

1191
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 1: reach out to us for solidarity because the same way

1192
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 1: that I'm asking you for solidarity with us, we have

1193
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 1: the same so social responsibility and the same reciprocity. Excuse me,

1194
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 1: with you that we want to express, so we will

1195
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:11,720
Speaker 1: be there too. If we're not in every city, but

1196
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 1: where we are, we can find you. So let's begin

1197
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:22,120
Speaker 1: to build this network stronger, reach out, make allies. And

1198
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 1: it's by working together in fact and fighting together in

1199
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 1: fact that we will forge the strongest alliances that Biden

1200
01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: and his entire administration and everybody else that is anti

1201
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 1: worker something that can defeat their actions, which for right

1202
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 1: now is still on the table. Hell yeah, so that

1203
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 1: is the great. Merrily Taylor Merely worked on the railroads

1204
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 1: for over thirty years and retired earlier this year from

1205
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 1: her post as an engineer for BNSF Railway. She continues

1206
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 1: to be a member and activist for Railroad Workers United. Merrily,

1207
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today on Breaking Points.

1208
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and keep up the good work.

1209
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:15,000
Speaker 1: Right back at you. Thank you for watching this segment

1210
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 1: with Breaking Points, and be sure to subscribe to my

1211
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,599
Speaker 1: news outlet, The Real News with links in the show

1212
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 1: description see Assume for the next edition of the Art

1213
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:27,680
Speaker 1: of Class War. Take care of yourselves, take care of

1214
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:29,760
Speaker 1: each other. Solidarity Forever