Speaker 1: It's a few days after January seventeenth, nineteen ninety two,
Speaker 1: Mohammad's fiftieth birthday. In my fortieth, I brought my six
Speaker 1: year old son, Isaac with me and our old Volvo
Speaker 1: to visit the champ at his farm in Michigan because
Speaker 1: I wanted Isaac to meet Ali, and Ali the perennial
Speaker 1: cosmic child to play with Isaac. But it's also because
Speaker 1: I'm hoping to expose Isaac to Mohammad's magic, to provide
Speaker 1: him with some kind of safe place inside him, so
Speaker 1: that Isaac won't have as tough a life as I had.
Speaker 1: While we've been at the farm, Ali has played with
Speaker 1: Isaac hour after hour, doing magic tricks, scaring him with
Speaker 1: ghost stories, chasing him around the house, hiding behind furniture,
Speaker 1: jumping out to Ticklizac. I used to sort of wonder
Speaker 1: when I was gonna quit playing, Ali says, used to
Speaker 1: sort of worry about it. Now I know I'm never
Speaker 1: gonna quip. All through the time we've been at the farm,
Speaker 1: the wind has been rattling the branches of trees. It's
Speaker 1: been snowing just enough to make the driveway slippery. Mohammed
Speaker 1: has picked up his baby's son As'ad, holding him in
Speaker 1: his arms. He's escorted us out to the car, and
Speaker 1: Mohammad's wearing his short sleeve shirt and his slick soled
Speaker 1: city shoes leather soles. His balance is not good, maybe
Speaker 1: especially holding a sod, and I'm concerned he might fall
Speaker 1: and fall with the baby. As I turned the key
Speaker 1: in the ignition, Muhammad closes our doors. There's a video
Speaker 1: camera in the back seat. I grab it and push
Speaker 1: the power button. Ali sees the camera opens Isaac's door,
Speaker 1: snatching up my son.
Speaker 2: There's the next champion, the great Grave.
Speaker 1: Hop you had a great white help Isaac.
Speaker 2: This man will win the crown in two thy twenty.
Speaker 3: Look at the face two thy twenty.
Speaker 2: He will be the new way.
Speaker 3: And then I said, dope, I said who I will
Speaker 3: be the manager? I mean ninety three. We will be
Speaker 3: the Grays that day of all.
Speaker 1: The greatest of all times. Ali places my laughing son
Speaker 1: back in his seat, drops aside to the ground, holds
Speaker 1: his hand while pointing at the lens of the camera.
Speaker 1: Watch my feet, he says. He turns his back to Isaac,
Speaker 1: the camera and me, and takes about ten shuffling great
Speaker 1: grandfatherly steps. There's a moment when the car engine seems
Speaker 1: to stop, the wind doesn't move, the air isn't cold.
Speaker 1: Looking over his left shoulder, Ali raises his arms perpendicular
Speaker 1: to his sides.
Speaker 3: Oh, I show you the power of the mind, powerful
Speaker 3: concentration blue.
Speaker 1: So then he levitates about three inches above the snowy driveway.
Speaker 1: And although I've seen him perform this illusion many many times,
Speaker 1: I turned to my son and smile as the most
Speaker 1: famous man in the world rises from the earth once more.
Speaker 1: What is a moment? How is it captured? Eat of
Speaker 1: a shudder? What does this fraction of a second mean?
Speaker 1: To Muhammad Ali, but decked in all white, as he
Speaker 1: leans across to fake kiss me on the cheek, This glowing,
Speaker 1: remarkable being whose name will likely be known and shared
Speaker 1: long after he and you and I cease to breathe
Speaker 1: and eat and fuck and sleep and dream. Trillions of
Speaker 1: microorganisms live less than one second. Hundreds of blind greenland
Speaker 1: sharks swimming right now in frigid, murky northern oceans have
Speaker 1: been living for up to five hundred years. Bristle com
Speaker 1: pines high up on arid Western American mountains, more than
Speaker 1: five thousand humans developed written language and music fifty five
Speaker 1: one hundred years before you and I were born Homo sapiens. We,
Speaker 1: all of us, our direct ancestors, have existed for roughly
Speaker 1: three hundred millennia. Life on our planet three point seven
Speaker 1: billion years. Stars, solar systems, and galaxies swirl and evolve,
Speaker 1: the metamorphose and die over tens of billions of years.
Speaker 1: Everywhere we look, everyone in, everything we've known or will
Speaker 1: ever know, is composed of atoms from stars that died
Speaker 1: billions of years before our sun came to exist. My
Speaker 1: friend Muhammad Ali has told me time and time again
Speaker 1: that life ain't nothing but a vapor. These things said,
Speaker 1: what in the world could this dream of a moment
Speaker 1: actually mean? This moment in which I'm standing in front
Speaker 1: one of a thirty five millimeter camera beside the greatest
Speaker 1: of all times? Episode eight, We're all ghosts magic, Muhammad
Speaker 1: Ali's magic, fathers and sons magic. I think about how
Speaker 1: many families must have been influenced by Mohammed. I've been
Speaker 1: lucky enough to see some of that in person, where
Speaker 1: you can see the generation somebody who Mohammad knew back
Speaker 1: in the sixties or seventies and it's the grandkids that
Speaker 1: are now hanging out with him. The last time I
Speaker 1: saw Rothmand after Mohammad passed, I said to him, man,
Speaker 1: you're looking more like your brother. I'm a very, very
Speaker 1: emotion person. I'm missing I'm about to cry. He just
Speaker 1: got these huge tears and just started weeping. It makes
Speaker 1: me think about missing my own dad and how at
Speaker 1: the moment of his death I felt him pass into
Speaker 1: me and it startled me. I did not expect that
Speaker 1: he became part of me. He entered me, and he's
Speaker 1: still there. I'm pretty darn happy right where I am
Speaker 1: and what I've got with my own kids, but boy,
Speaker 1: I sure do wish i'd had it with my father
Speaker 1: as well. I was fortunate to be with Mohammed and Cash,
Speaker 1: his dad, Cashius Marcellus Clee Senior, on one of the
Speaker 1: last times Mohammed saw Cash. You could see Mohammed become
Speaker 1: the father in many respects. Cash was much smaller than Mohammed.
Speaker 1: He was basically I guess my size, and he draped
Speaker 1: his arm around his father's shoulder while we were standing there,
Speaker 1: and they walked down a sidewalk away from me, where
Speaker 1: I'm just watching their backs. I had the feeling of
Speaker 1: closure to it, a piece of art, even, and it
Speaker 1: made me think about my own relationship with my dad.
Speaker 1: Years later, I consider that, and I can see myself
Speaker 1: with Isaac. These generations his fathers and sons stuff dads
Speaker 1: are fairly stoic and removed, and I feel very fortunate
Speaker 1: that I'm not Mohammed with young As'ad became a quite
Speaker 1: good father earlier when he was boxing, when he was
Speaker 1: the world's most celebrated person and very seldom at home.
Speaker 1: He wasn't He was tender with his kids, but he
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily there to be available with a sad. Mohammed
Speaker 1: told me that he wanted to be there for his son,
Speaker 1: and he was with Isaac everywhere we went with Mohammed.
Speaker 1: Mohammed made sure that if we were in a car,
Speaker 1: that Isaac was on his lap the whole time, would
Speaker 1: be right next to him, and Muhammed always wanted to
Speaker 1: go somewhere. The thing that strikes me time and time
Speaker 1: again is that the very first time Isaac saw him,
Speaker 1: Mohammad pointed to both of us and up at me,
Speaker 1: then down at Isaac. You'll remember this when you're an
Speaker 1: old old man and guess what I'm about there now.
Speaker 1: And indeed it's deep inside me that moment. Isaac talks
Speaker 1: about it all the time. It's extraordinary that way. Today
Speaker 1: we've had my best pal in the world with us,
Speaker 1: my son Isaac, who in some way or another thinks
Speaker 1: of Muhammad Ali as uncle Ali, uncle Mohammed, And it'd
Speaker 1: be great to just sort of have a little remembrance
Speaker 1: with my man here and share our adventure with Ali.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, you'd stop did school to pick me up,
Speaker 4: and I didn't really know why you came in. You said, hey,
Speaker 4: we're going on a road trip. I was usually down
Speaker 4: to go anywhere. You were famous for jumping in the
Speaker 4: car and taking road trips was always something fun on
Speaker 4: the other end of it, or just spending time with
Speaker 4: you in the car. We hop in the car and
Speaker 4: you would just go hours and hours talking, listening to music,
Speaker 4: playing road games like the license Plate game and counting cows.
Speaker 4: I want to say. We stopped in Louisville. We went
Speaker 4: and visited Ali's mother. It struck me that that Missus
Speaker 4: Clay's house was just so modest. It was just like
Speaker 4: neighbored right next to you down the street. I don't
Speaker 4: think she was doing well. She may have been just
Speaker 4: kind of sitting in a chair, and she was pleasant,
Speaker 4: very sweet. We packed up and kept on going and
Speaker 4: ended up in varying springs and we pull up to
Speaker 4: Ali's farm at the gate. At this point, you still
Speaker 4: hadn't really told me who's seeing. I figure it out
Speaker 4: when the intercom said that Ali I was not there
Speaker 4: yet and to come back tomorrow. So we stayed the
Speaker 4: night in a hotel and came back the next day.
Speaker 4: And we show up at the house and Lannie invites
Speaker 4: us in with her big ground smile and face, all
Speaker 4: freckles and all, and invited us in for tomato soup
Speaker 4: and grilled cheese sandwich. Is just like a neighbor or
Speaker 4: a family member. Then a casad Ali and Lonnie's son
Speaker 4: is there. I think he's two. I'm six years old,
Speaker 4: but he's already as big as I am. And we're
Speaker 4: all just hanging out and eating. Then Ali shuffles down
Speaker 4: the stairs. This is my first time meeting Ali, and
Speaker 4: very different than what I remember seeing in those old
Speaker 4: fights that we used to watch up in the attic
Speaker 4: at the Miller Street house.
Speaker 5: He was just.
Speaker 4: Glowing and vibrant and fast, watching him move and wondering, gosh,
Speaker 4: is he gonna fall down? But then he shuffles over
Speaker 4: and picks me right up, starts playing around, growling in
Speaker 4: my ear up, just like you would have a niece
Speaker 4: or nephew or grandson. And that's the vibe that I got.
Speaker 4: Was like I was at my grandparents house seeing Ali
Speaker 4: like that, very different than what I'd seen on tapes.
Speaker 4: It was striking, but you're a kid, You're going with
Speaker 4: the flow. He had this fake thumb with this red handkerchief,
Speaker 4: and I remember him showing me a sleight of hand
Speaker 4: stuff and of course I know how that works now,
Speaker 4: but I was like totally enthralled by that.
Speaker 1: Do you remember him chasing you around the house, physically
Speaker 1: chasing you around the room?
Speaker 4: People, Well, yeah, he did this like Frankenstein kind of thing.
Speaker 4: And I'm running around the couch and he'd stick his
Speaker 4: arms out like he was Frankenstein and grown. It's like
Speaker 4: you're playing with another kid, really big kid.
Speaker 1: That was Ali. Do you remember him picking you up
Speaker 1: to record and the things he said?
Speaker 4: He told me I was going to be the champion
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty, that I'd be King of the World
Speaker 4: or something along those lines. I used to kind of
Speaker 4: feel as though that was some bit of prophecy, and
Speaker 4: I wondered about it. Twenty twenty rolled around, and I'm like, man,
Speaker 4: what is this year going to bring?
Speaker 1: Do you remember the levitation?
Speaker 4: Ali was so good with his illusions, even at that point,
Speaker 4: which is striking for somebody who has Parkinson's because their
Speaker 4: movements aren't very fluid and they have balance issues. Parkinson
Speaker 4: shrinks everything right. It makes it hard to do fine
Speaker 4: motor movements. And Ali was so good at that kind
Speaker 4: of stuff. It was just incredible allowing us to come
Speaker 4: up there and hang out with him and his family
Speaker 4: over that course of two days, you know, I just
Speaker 4: developed this close connection with him. I remember getting back
Speaker 4: in the car and he had walked us outside and
Speaker 4: we stood and talked in the driveway for a few minutes,
Speaker 4: but it was cold. We weren't going to hang out
Speaker 4: too long. He packed me up in the car, and
Speaker 4: I want to say, he put me in front seat.
Speaker 4: We're packed up, and we're ready to go, and you
Speaker 4: get in the car and start it up, or you
Speaker 4: start driving away. And I don't know what it was
Speaker 4: but something compelled me to unbuckle the seat belt and
Speaker 4: climb over the seat. And I remember getting in the
Speaker 4: back of the station wagon and looking through the back
Speaker 4: glass and I wasn't even looking at you, but you
Speaker 4: just sensed something. But you sense that I was emotional
Speaker 4: and I was crying, and I mean I was just
Speaker 4: tears kind of running down my face.
Speaker 1: And he said, what's going on, buddy, And I.
Speaker 4: Said, it just doesn't make sense how something like that
Speaker 4: can happen to some of as cool as Alis as kind.
Speaker 4: That whole experience certainly carries with me. I'm a physical
Speaker 4: therapist assistant, so I treat people who had surgeries or
Speaker 4: they've got balance issues. I get flashbacks of Ali, and
Speaker 4: the compassion just flows through me, and I try to
Speaker 4: make deeper connections with people. That experience, for me was special.
Speaker 4: It's always striking to me that everybody, young or old,
Speaker 4: all have these stories. Somehow Ali has affected their life
Speaker 4: or inspired them in one way or another.
Speaker 1: I remember that first experience. It was a field trip.
Speaker 1: It had to be educational. Yeah, we got back and
Speaker 1: I don't think I.
Speaker 4: Was really supposed to miss school, But you had a
Speaker 4: really interesting way of pulling it off with my teachers
Speaker 4: and basically setting up a show and tell kind of
Speaker 4: day where we I think we even brought that video,
Speaker 4: that VHS tape, then showed them the VHS tape of Ali.
Speaker 4: We talked about that experience and talked about Ali, and
Speaker 4: kids drew up these cards, drew pictures for him. I
Speaker 4: hope that those got to him. And for weeks after that,
Speaker 4: these kids were out there throwing punches at each other.
Speaker 1: And you know, I am the greatest.
Speaker 4: It was funny.
Speaker 1: Those cards. I mailed them, and I know that Muhammad
Speaker 1: got them. I set yours aside a little differently. But
Speaker 1: you may not remember the one you made. Do you
Speaker 1: remember the drawing you made for him? No, I don't.
Speaker 1: And he mailed it back, and he mailed back one
Speaker 1: that I've never given you that he drew. Maybe this
Speaker 1: will be a good time to give it to you.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh Ahi the artist. His dad was a painter.
Speaker 1: Brother Rochman is a painter, and Muhammad was a pretty
Speaker 1: good sketcher. He loved to do these little cartoon drawings.
Speaker 1: And you did a little cartoon drawing of him in
Speaker 1: a blue ballpoint pen and he's in the center of
Speaker 1: the ring and you wrote it as Mohammed, let me
Speaker 1: spell with the T and you put Muhammed the winner
Speaker 1: in a cartoon bubble beside his head with his arms
Speaker 1: over his head. I think you may have drawn the
Speaker 1: guy flat beside him as the loser.
Speaker 4: I'm getting some slight memory of this now, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Muhammad the Winner, you drew you spectators kind of around
Speaker 1: the ring. Well, Mohammad did the same thing what he
Speaker 1: sent you back that I've never shown you his own
Speaker 1: drawing of himself in a ring. Gosh and love Mohammed.
Speaker 1: I'll frame it and give it to you, oh Man. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I'm anxious now, Hi, Craig.
Speaker 6: I have fun memories of time spent with my dad
Speaker 6: and his dad, my grandfather, who I was very close to,
Speaker 6: and I'm getting a little choked up talking about it.
Speaker 6: I mean, it must have been wonderful for you to
Speaker 6: share this experience with your dad.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't have children, but I feel as though if
Speaker 4: I did have children, I would definitely want to try
Speaker 4: to create a similar experience somehow.
Speaker 1: I think for me, I always wanted to make your
Speaker 1: world larger and you did.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you definitely did that. That wasn't the only road
Speaker 4: trip that we went on. He would just pick up
Speaker 4: and get in the car and go to the mountains,
Speaker 4: and we did that fairly often, and I was always ready.
Speaker 4: I wanted to see what was out there that expanded
Speaker 4: my worldview, especially spending time with Ali expanded my worldview.
Speaker 4: He was of a different culture, of a different religion.
Speaker 4: That was a profound moment because I'd only had exposure
Speaker 4: to the world within my own four walls and within
Speaker 4: my small city that I live in and my neighborhood.
Speaker 4: And getting out like that it makes me want to
Speaker 4: do that now more. Just like you stopping on your
Speaker 4: way through Louisville, you didn't know what was going to
Speaker 4: come next when you met Ali and developed a personal
Speaker 4: relationship with him, and you never would have had these
Speaker 4: experiences had you not taken that risk.
Speaker 1: It is a risk.
Speaker 4: That's what I'd take with me when I'm out there
Speaker 4: as a musician. Now, I talk to everybody that experienced
Speaker 4: helped me develop relationships to take me places that I
Speaker 4: may have never gotten a chance to go otherwise.
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have done that had Muhammad
Speaker 1: Ali not been in my life from a distance as
Speaker 1: a kid, and then as an adult. I don't think
Speaker 1: I would have been that adventurous.
Speaker 6: What does it mean to you that Ali had such
Speaker 6: a profound impact on your father's life.
Speaker 4: It means everything. He's spent a lifetime living in the doubt.
Speaker 4: If Ali, that's the way of it's in the footsteps.
Speaker 4: Through meeting him, you opened doors that you never would have.
Speaker 4: You followed your dream, you became a writer. Ali gave
Speaker 4: you the confidence to follow that dream, and that means everything.
Speaker 4: It also trickled down to me the way that I've
Speaker 4: been influenced by you and the life that you've led,
Speaker 4: the way that you've used writing as It inspired me
Speaker 4: to read a lot as a kid, and I feel
Speaker 4: like that helped a lot, just expanding your mind and
Speaker 4: opening doors that never would.
Speaker 1: Have been opened otherwise. My dad.
Speaker 4: I think spent time with him in early twenty sixteen,
Speaker 4: maybe January or February, so this was only a few
Speaker 4: months before he passed. He was a bit of a shell,
Speaker 4: but there was still spark. I know what it does
Speaker 4: to you, It just literally sucks the life out of you.
Speaker 4: It's just an incredible that he did, and to travel
Speaker 4: to all these places and meet with people constantly because
Speaker 4: you're wiped. When you have Parkinson's, you're fighting that rigidity
Speaker 4: all day and it just takes so much out of you.
Speaker 4: To see that he was still very actively a humanitarian.
Speaker 4: Was incredible.
Speaker 6: So he was dead on when he said, when you're
Speaker 6: an old man, you're going to remember this.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 6: To not only play, but to compose some music for
Speaker 6: this series dedicated to Ali. How much of a who
Speaker 6: does that for you?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 4: Man, it's really cool. I try to dig deep on
Speaker 4: the stuff that I'm doing, and I try not to
Speaker 4: think that I'm writing so much as just close my
Speaker 4: eyes and free flow, move shape your movement around what's happening.
Speaker 4: I just try to feel and let the music move
Speaker 4: through me rather than make the music or compose it.
Speaker 6: That's the best creativity when it just flows out of you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's funny because your body shakes and you
Speaker 4: have this out of body experience. I'm a big softie,
Speaker 4: but there's times I'll be playing and it's just hitting
Speaker 4: me so hard at that tears start coming out and
Speaker 4: just crying because at that point I'm not controlling what's happening.
Speaker 4: It's just moving through me, and it's this very spiritual experience.
Speaker 4: There's not anything in the world like that. Every time
Speaker 4: I play music, I chase that when something truly organic
Speaker 4: happens and you're in a group of people and you're
Speaker 4: just you're just dialed, everybody's die and you're in a groove,
Speaker 4: and there's almost times like you just close your eyes
Speaker 4: and you stop thinking and then it just flows. And
Speaker 4: I imagine that maybe that's the way writing it. My
Speaker 4: dad talks about that a lot of times. He'll just
Speaker 4: make things quiet, walk in the woods, be inspired by
Speaker 4: what's around and let it happen and let it flow
Speaker 4: through him. And I imagine that with Ali that was
Speaker 4: the same way. There were times that he just let
Speaker 4: it go and he would just move and flow.
Speaker 6: I'm certain that he'd be thrilled that that little boy
Speaker 6: he met way back when he was making music for him.
Speaker 4: Oh man, When my dad approached me about that and
Speaker 4: said that that was something that he wanted to do
Speaker 4: and that it was a possibility that it was going
Speaker 4: to happen, my heart skipped a.
Speaker 1: Couple of beats.
Speaker 4: It's a little overwhelming, but the honor of that, because this,
Speaker 4: in my mind, is the pinnacle we're reaching ahead with
Speaker 4: a lot of the stories that you have with Ali,
Speaker 4: finally getting it down in a visceral way.
Speaker 1: This is one of those things you don't ever say
Speaker 1: to your own son, Okay, at least I don't think
Speaker 1: I've said it to you when you were born, in particular.
Speaker 1: I still every time I look at you and we're close,
Speaker 1: you're right in front of me, I see my father,
Speaker 1: I see you. I see every detail of you. I
Speaker 1: feel your entire life from conception to now. But you
Speaker 1: have my dad's eyes, and you're tender like my father,
Speaker 1: and as you say, a hard to make you cry,
Speaker 1: and obviously you got that from me, sir. But I
Speaker 1: look in those eyes and the shape of them and
Speaker 1: the depth of them, it's my daddy. When you were born,
Speaker 1: the very first moment I looked at you, I saw
Speaker 1: my father, and it was straight up llucinogenic. I saw
Speaker 1: my grandfather, and generations spilled out of you, just tumbled
Speaker 1: out of you over and ogain people I could never
Speaker 1: possibly know, And there they were, or a dozen two
Speaker 1: dozen generations just went further and further and further back
Speaker 1: inside you. I'd never had that experience before. I've never
Speaker 1: had it since. And It is one of the most
Speaker 1: powerful experiences of my life, and related to Mohammed. We
Speaker 1: carry him on through us, and we carry him on
Speaker 1: through you and your friends, and your wife and her family,
Speaker 1: and that's everywhere in the world. It's everywhere in the
Speaker 1: world with that man. I've been around the world more
Speaker 1: than some people, and everywhere I went it was Mohammed Ali,
Speaker 1: Mohammad Ali.
Speaker 4: I wish I'd gotten more time to spend with my dad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do have very vague memories. You were, you know,
Speaker 4: but I was young. I think, God, how old was
Speaker 4: I three when he died?
Speaker 1: I can remember three. You were three when my dad died,
Speaker 1: sitting on his lap, read little Horsey.
Speaker 4: Go down to little Horsey. You're bouncing you on his knee.
Speaker 4: And I think those memories were reinforced because you did that.
Speaker 4: We talked about him, and I just I never got
Speaker 4: a chance to know him as a man. Unfortunate both
Speaker 4: of my mom's parents lived until I was in my thirties,
Speaker 4: and I got to know them as as people and
Speaker 4: love them. But I I really wish I'd gotten a
Speaker 4: chance to know Paul. Paulk It just sounded like such
Speaker 4: a cool and kind hearted person.
Speaker 1: Yep of person I've ever known.
Speaker 4: But I mean, you and I have had quite a ride.
Speaker 4: I've been there with a lot of moves and ups
Speaker 4: and downs in your life now having two younger half
Speaker 4: brothers and you getting married again and living here and there,
Speaker 4: and I wouldn't trade it for anything. We always seem
Speaker 4: to go somewhere that's quiet, and I love that. I
Speaker 4: like separating from society sometimes and just having time to
Speaker 4: spend even if we just sit in silence at it,
Speaker 4: it's time that we get to spend together.
Speaker 1: And well, I think that's true.
Speaker 4: Sometimes words aren't necessary. I've never hugged anybody that's hugged
Speaker 4: me tighter.
Speaker 1: That's me, yeah, yeah, And that's me with you.
Speaker 6: When Mohammad passed in twenty sixteen, that was a bad year.
Speaker 6: What were your emotion How did you feel when you
Speaker 6: found out that he had passed.
Speaker 4: This is going to sound selfish and weird, but I
Speaker 4: thought of my dad. My immediate thought was, oh my god,
Speaker 4: how's my dad going to handle this? Because he had
Speaker 4: just lost his very good friend, Charlie Charles, his great
Speaker 4: Pyrenees had just died. I mean, twenty sixteen was rough.
Speaker 4: Not to be selfish, but yeah that when I heard
Speaker 4: of Ali passing, it was a shock.
Speaker 1: In a way.
Speaker 4: I knew that he wasn't doing well, but my thoughts
Speaker 4: immediately turned to my dad and I thought, God, he's
Speaker 4: going to be a wreck.
Speaker 1: From our Melbourne headquarters.
Speaker 4: This is seven News with Jennifer Kayne Good Evening.
Speaker 7: The world has lost a legend with the death of
Speaker 7: Muhammad Ali.
Speaker 4: Once named Sportsman of the cent is gone.
Speaker 6: Muhammad Ali, three time heavyweight champion and arguably the world's
Speaker 6: most famous athlete.
Speaker 8: This week we lost an icon, somebody who was a
Speaker 8: personal hero of mine, somebody who ended up transforming not
Speaker 8: just the world of sports, but the world as a whole.
Speaker 1: My nickname was Fetus. I was pushed into lockers and
Speaker 1: locked up inside the My mom had died. Lynn and
Speaker 1: I are divorcing. My dad died the conscientious of check
Speaker 1: the cosmic child.
Speaker 4: I'm the.
Speaker 1: World heavyweight champions. They come and go destroyed. But in
Speaker 1: Muhammadadi's case.
Speaker 6: You want me to go somewhere and fight.
Speaker 1: This would never be crazy almost because forever he will
Speaker 1: always the people's champion. My man Ali, I'm the miracle man.
Speaker 7: Bless Mhammad Ali. Peace enough to all his family. The
Speaker 7: Prime Minister of the Cameron, in the last few moments
Speaker 7: has tweeted Muhammad Ali was not just a champion of
Speaker 7: the ring, he was a champion of civil rights.
Speaker 9: There was a bar, a very strange bar, Isaac and
Speaker 9: Hyder upstairs, spending the night in the burying springstowns, sleeping
Speaker 9: in a massive, king sized bed, I feel myself being
Speaker 9: tugged awake by the streaming.
Speaker 1: Watery light of a full moon, tugged to a window
Speaker 1: opposite the bed. I look out the window and down
Speaker 1: onto the pond, the same pond with the sheep on
Speaker 1: the Ali farm trink and there's Mohammed, his back turned
Speaker 1: to me, dressed in white, exactly like that first night
Speaker 1: I spent with him at his mom's house, dressed entirely
Speaker 1: in white, glowing under the moon, standing at the edge
Speaker 1: of the pond, looking out across the water. I sense
Speaker 1: him getting ready to raise a foot and step into
Speaker 1: the pond. Then I wake from the dream. The first
Speaker 1: time I visited the Ali farm back in nineteen eighty eight,
Speaker 1: Mohammed suddenly inexplicably asked me a question, you believe in ghost?
Speaker 1: He says, no, no, no, no, I say, I'll show
Speaker 1: you a ghost. I'll make you believe. From his big
Speaker 1: magic trunk, which he keeps on the wall beneath the
Speaker 1: stairway that leads up to the main part of the house,
Speaker 1: he pulls a thin white cloth, which he places on
Speaker 1: a coffee table. He waves his hands across the cloth
Speaker 1: and says, arise, ghost, Arise. The cloth quavers and a
Speaker 1: peak appears in the middle. Told you there's a ghost
Speaker 1: in the room, he says. I ask, do you believe
Speaker 1: in ghost?
Speaker 5: Do you?
Speaker 1: Ali says, I hesitate, yes, I say, I study his face.
Speaker 1: He doesn't seem surprised. You're a ghost, I say, or
Speaker 1: I guess. I mean the images people have of you,
Speaker 1: what they and me and even you say you represent,
Speaker 1: those are ghost And I'm a ghost too. The way
Speaker 1: I feel a need to get something about you on paper,
Speaker 1: to write the best story in me and have it
Speaker 1: carry on after my body is gone, that's being a ghost.
Speaker 1: But it's not the only way I'm one. We're all ghosts, walking, talking, spirits,
Speaker 1: all of us in countless ways, all the time. Man,
Speaker 1: that's powerful, heavy. And then he looks at me seriously.
Speaker 1: He levels his eyes and quietly he says, I always
Speaker 1: knew somebody like you would come along.
Speaker 9: Man.
Speaker 1: Immediately, Wow, I puff all up. But then see the
Speaker 1: smile and I know once again he's got me. He says, Look,
Speaker 1: you're not as dumb as you. Look, what is happening.
Speaker 10: I can't believe I'm here. My dad was superman. My
Speaker 10: dad is not supposed to die. Of course, I knew
Speaker 10: my dad was suffering from a condition for now over
Speaker 10: thirty years, but for some reason, I never even thought
Speaker 10: about it happening because it was a painful thought. He
Speaker 10: was diagnosed with Parkinson's. He always said, now my life
Speaker 10: is starting. So when it finally happened, I was like,
Speaker 10: this is not happening. At the end, we were blessed
Speaker 10: to spend one on one time with my dad and
Speaker 10: talk to him. At the end, he couldn't speak. I
Speaker 10: know he could hear us, so each one of us,
Speaker 10: the kids and the grandkids, are like we were able
Speaker 10: to really talk to him one on one and tell
Speaker 10: him whatever we wanted to tell him. My Selfish Mo
Speaker 10: popped in and was like, don't leave, Please, don't leave me.
Speaker 10: I'm not ready for my dad too. That was my friend,
Speaker 10: and I wasn't ready to not hug him and kiss
Speaker 10: him and laugh. At some point I had to say,
Speaker 10: it's okay, We're gonna be fine. But I told my
Speaker 10: dad I would carry on your life and legacy to
Speaker 10: the best of my ability. I'll try to carry on,
Speaker 10: and I've been trying ever since. My dad held on
Speaker 10: longer than he was supposed to. Even the doctors like,
Speaker 10: how was he still here? Because he was waiting for
Speaker 10: my brother. He was waiting for his son Muhammed. I'll
Speaker 10: lead Jr. To arrive. During that span of time, MAM's
Speaker 10: Aade was reading from the Koran for hours and hours
Speaker 10: and hours. He didn't take a break, he didn't drink anything.
Speaker 10: He didn't he was just reading from the Koran. It
Speaker 10: was the most beautiful sind off that I've ever seen
Speaker 10: in my life. Daddy was listening to the Koran, the
Speaker 10: words of the Almighty, up until his last breath. And
Speaker 10: he didn't take a break, He didn't stop, he didn't
Speaker 10: He was constantly reading the Koran. He was the most
Speaker 10: beautiful thing. I've ever been this in my life. Then
Speaker 10: they had to chuck the machines off. Daddy still hung
Speaker 10: in there. He was able to say goodbye to his
Speaker 10: son and everyone. And when we were all were leieving
Speaker 10: because the staff had to prepare the body. You had
Speaker 10: to be covered in a Muslim shroud that you and
Speaker 10: the man's aide had to be there to make sure
Speaker 10: it was done courd in our tradition. And I loked
Speaker 10: at Zaid and I said, take care of my father.
Speaker 10: He said, I'm not going to leave his side.
Speaker 2: It's an honor to be able to assist because these families,
Speaker 2: we have to do a lot more for even Malcolm
Speaker 2: X's daughters. This is African American royalty and they have
Speaker 2: a right over us as a community. We fall in short.
Speaker 2: These are global icons that came from humble beginnings and
Speaker 2: were elevated by God, Almighty God, and had a global
Speaker 2: impact and a global reach that extends to this very day.
Speaker 2: To have an opportunity with members of Muhammad Adi's family
Speaker 2: is a great, great honor.
Speaker 11: So I met my dad at the door and he
Speaker 11: looks at me and he said, what's that boy? And
Speaker 11: I just looked at him and my eyes just welled
Speaker 11: up and I said, Dad, it's Muhammed And he looked
Speaker 11: at me. He went no, no, no, no, no, come on, Dad,
Speaker 11: We go and sit down. So we sat on the
Speaker 11: edge of the bed and we both just sat there.
Speaker 11: We hugged detail and cried, and then my dad went downhill,
Speaker 11: very very quickly. Ten months later he passed away. It
Speaker 11: brings back memories of what my dad said and how
Speaker 11: true it was when Muhammad goes, I'll be going soon after,
Speaker 11: and he did ten months later.
Speaker 6: It's it's a strange coincidence that Howard Bingham died in
Speaker 6: twenty sixteen too. Yes, it is his other great friend.
Speaker 1: With them in the morning.
Speaker 5: There were rabbis, there were priests there, there were ministers there,
Speaker 5: Baptist ministers. Everybody was there, everybody, and that's how you
Speaker 5: planned it. I want to go through my old neighborhood.
Speaker 5: I want my neighbors to be able to see me.
Speaker 1: Everybody was together from all over the world. I met
Speaker 1: Jews hugging Muslims. I met people I'm still in touch
Speaker 1: with now that I only saw for ten seconds. And
Speaker 1: if we stop and we'd hug or shake hands and
Speaker 1: they're still in my life. And that's your.
Speaker 10: Daddy, showing respect, shouting, screaming. They had Ali's shirts on,
Speaker 10: they were chanting. I was like, this is the most
Speaker 10: beautiful thing in my darkest hour. This is the most
Speaker 10: beautiful thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 6: We were watching on TV, thinking like, gee, that might
Speaker 6: be close to where we are. We ran down from
Speaker 6: the hotel. We just made it to that street corner
Speaker 6: with about thirty seconds to spare ay. I've never been
Speaker 6: through something like that before.
Speaker 1: Never.
Speaker 6: The people were five six deep on the sidewalks and
Speaker 6: hurricane the hearse. Everybody was throwing flowers on the windshield.
Speaker 6: I don't know how the driver could drive because it
Speaker 6: was full of cut flowers.
Speaker 1: And I reached out and touched the hearse.
Speaker 10: When we were driving from the funeral home to the cemetery,
Speaker 10: it was about three or four miles. It took us
Speaker 10: two hours to get there, just driving and watching hundreds
Speaker 10: of thousands of people lined on the streets. I couldn't
Speaker 10: see the street like, I couldn't see what color the
Speaker 10: street was. It was people side by side, every single race,
Speaker 10: every single nationality, every single color, every single age.
Speaker 8: People were waved.
Speaker 10: I was in the car with my family and my
Speaker 10: boys and my twin and if you lowered the window
Speaker 10: just to wave, I heard people's chant thank you, and
Speaker 10: I'm looking, why are they saying thank you, and later
Speaker 10: on I said, oh, it came back to me being
Speaker 10: the selfish person there thanking me for his charity. My dad,
Speaker 10: it was just so beautiful. My dad had a recurring dream.
Speaker 10: Daddy was in Louisville standing above a lot of people
Speaker 10: who were chanting, and he was flying above all. This
Speaker 10: is a recurring dream my dad had for many, many years.
Speaker 10: And he was flying above a lot of people and
Speaker 10: they were chanting and he was waving at them. And
Speaker 10: when I saw the procession, when I was in it,
Speaker 10: I was like, this is Daddy's dream, so I know
Speaker 10: he was there. What a beautiful way to be able
Speaker 10: to bring together people all over the world. They were
Speaker 10: from Australia, They're from the Middle East, they were from Africa,
Speaker 10: they were from all parts of the globe, China just
Speaker 10: some of them meant broke. Some people were like, I
Speaker 10: don't know how I'm going to get home, but I'm
Speaker 10: going to get a one made ticket. I'm going to
Speaker 10: just say farewell to the champ. Some of them never
Speaker 10: met him, but they felt like they knew him, because
Speaker 10: that's how my dad did. He made you feel like
Speaker 10: he made you feel like you know him.
Speaker 2: Personally family.
Speaker 10: It is a unique gift. And I remember when we
Speaker 10: were driving to Cave Hill Cemetery, the weirdest thing happened.
Speaker 10: I saw a person in a hospital robe and he
Speaker 10: had an oxygen tank. I couldn't believe it. He left
Speaker 10: the hospital bed. We loved each other for the one
Speaker 10: day there was over two hundred thousand people in this treason.
Speaker 10: There was no fighting. We were all saying goodbye.
Speaker 2: We believe as most of them. There's some people who
Speaker 2: are dams, as in a dam on the river that
Speaker 2: blocked evil. I firmly believe Ali was one of those
Speaker 2: people that had the ability to block evil. And when
Speaker 2: these people are in the world, the impact the environment,
Speaker 2: the social, cultural, spiritual environment in a way that blocks evil.
Speaker 2: An example of that from in Louisville, which is a
Speaker 2: very dangerous place, a lot of gang activity, shooting, homicides.
Speaker 2: From the time Ali passed until the time he was
Speaker 2: entered into his grave, there wasn't a single shooting in Louisville,
Speaker 2: and as soon as he passed away started right back up.
Speaker 2: It was one of those people that was able to
Speaker 2: block a lot of evil.
Speaker 10: Sometimes and I'm going through some stuff and I feel down.
Speaker 10: My dad would come to me in a dream, I'll
Speaker 10: feel his preser. I just feel him watching me, and
Speaker 10: whenever I do feel that, I say thank you. It's
Speaker 10: a gift to be able to feel his presence again.
Speaker 10: Even if he comes. When he talks to me in
Speaker 10: my dreams, I wake up and thank.
Speaker 9: You so much.
Speaker 10: Just like my death, Sound'm free to be who I
Speaker 10: want to be. You're free, You're really free. And the
Speaker 10: only thing that gives me solace is that he doesn't
Speaker 10: have Parkinson's anymore. He's healthy and he's beautiful. Every time
Speaker 10: he comes to my dream he's young and pretty.
Speaker 4: I'm free to be what I want to be.
Speaker 1: Thankful, I won't think.
Speaker 5: He's just unique. What he was doing seems so outside
Speaker 5: the realm of the norm. That he was alone. That's
Speaker 5: one of the things I respect most about him. He
Speaker 5: didn't take his cues from anybody. There's a universal theme
Speaker 5: to the feeling that is reflected back at Ali because
Speaker 5: he gave. He gave all of us something. When he passed,
Speaker 5: I took Taylor with me because I knew she'd have
Speaker 5: an understanding of it. There wasn't a lot of sadness.
Speaker 5: It felt like a celebration of life. Everybody is here
Speaker 5: to show their respect for this man and what he
Speaker 5: gave us. Paying it forward a lot of times. Is
Speaker 5: keeping the story going so that people will never forget. Yes, yes,
Speaker 5: so people will never forget.
Speaker 6: Generations from now they're going to be talking about this.
Speaker 5: Yes, generations from now talking about this man. Yes, what
Speaker 5: was he like? I never sawgn flinch, never stand up, individual,
Speaker 5: stand up, human being and a proud black man.
Speaker 1: We still talk about him.
Speaker 2: I say, a week or doesn't go by that we
Speaker 2: don't have a conversation about Ali.
Speaker 12: I'm so honored to have a piece of him with me.
Speaker 12: I feel like he's here now. He lives in us.
Speaker 12: His legacy is, without question, one of the greatest lives
Speaker 12: ever lived.
Speaker 1: His eyes still sparkled.
Speaker 13: There was something about those eyes that, no matter what
Speaker 13: happened to the rest of us, by his eyes never
Speaker 13: dim the last time.
Speaker 5: It was hard for me to see him like that.
Speaker 5: But who am I to pity.
Speaker 1: Him when he ain't pity in himself.
Speaker 13: Nobody really understood how great he was because the greatness
Speaker 13: wasn't in the center of a ring or standing on
Speaker 13: the portial. When you're alone with him and understand that
Speaker 13: the principles and things he talks about, he.
Speaker 5: Really believed that's what made him great.
Speaker 13: Here's a guy who would several times rest everything, even
Speaker 13: lost the title, and never.
Speaker 5: Shook on his gleaves.
Speaker 13: I think that it will take probably decades, if not centuries,
Speaker 13: for us to really understand how he shifted the culture.
Speaker 5: He redefined what success was.
Speaker 13: It's not about what you have, it's not about the
Speaker 13: awards they give me. Is what do you stand for now?
Speaker 13: Ali level of success?
Speaker 1: How long will people know Mohammad Ali in this world?
Speaker 1: As long as there are human beings, He's going to
Speaker 1: be known.
Speaker 6: As long as there are storytellers to keep the legend alive.
Speaker 1: I see Muhammad is genuinely timeless. I think as long
Speaker 1: as there are people. I like the way that Kriig
Speaker 1: said that, as long as there are storytellers, Muhammad will
Speaker 1: be known. The poetry of the name, the poetry of
Speaker 1: the deeds, the poetry of the man. He's going to
Speaker 1: pass into classic mythology. He's just not going to go away.
Speaker 1: I think it's world mythology who's known over the centuries.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't the poet Homer of loved Muhammad Ali he would
Speaker 1: be a perfect character in the Iliad and the Odyssey
Speaker 1: if people around just fifty more years or fifty thousand
Speaker 1: more years. I don't know how long we're going to
Speaker 1: be here if we get our act together, though. I
Speaker 1: think Muhammad's always going to be known by people, and
Speaker 1: there's always going to be storytellers. And boy did he
Speaker 1: give us some good ones.
Speaker 14: I never liked us say I cannot once we say
Speaker 14: I cannot. We have made a suggestion to ourselves. We
Speaker 14: have weakened our power of accomplishing that which otherwise could
Speaker 14: have been accomplished. For one to mention yourself, I have
Speaker 14: no force, I have no thought, I have no intelligence,
Speaker 14: only mean working against ausself.
Speaker 1: The Tao of Muhammad Ali is produced by Imagine Audio
Speaker 1: for iHeart Podcast and hosted by Me Davis Miller. My
Speaker 1: co host is Craig Mortally, Karl Welker, Mark Bouch, Nathan Kle,
Speaker 1: Derek Jennings and Little Owe. Me Davis Miller are executive producers.
Speaker 1: Produced by Craig Mortality, sound design and mixing by Juan Border,
Speaker 1: music by Djsparr and introducing a very good pal of mine,
Speaker 1: Isaac Miller. Additional music by William Ryan Fritch and also
Speaker 1: Luminessence track Nuage. Visit Luminescent music dot com to check
Speaker 1: out more from the band. I want to give a
Speaker 1: ring center thanks to our showrunner Derek Jennings for his
Speaker 1: masterful composition and for his passionate connection with this project.
Speaker 1: Just one more thing I'd like to say. There's no
Speaker 1: beginning and no end to my stories about Ali Mohammad
Speaker 1: has made my life bigger, broader, deeper, and stranger than
Speaker 1: I could have ever am. And there's so many more
Speaker 1: stories I'd love to share with you, big, timeless, universal stories.
Speaker 1: If you'd like us to do that, let us know
Speaker 1: at writer Davismiller dot com and we'll do our best
Speaker 1: to get them out there to you in some form,
Speaker 1: maybe in the second season of this podcast. Thanks for listening.