Speaker 1: Now really.
Speaker 2: Really now really hello, and welcome to really No Really
Speaker 2: with Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden, who want you to
Speaker 2: know that service to our subscriber customers is a priority.
Speaker 3: It really, no really, so please subscribe.
Speaker 2: And customer service is what today's episode is all about,
Speaker 2: because by anyone's standards, it is getting worse and worse.
Speaker 2: You know it every time you're subjected to a phone tree,
Speaker 2: interact with a chatbot, or experience increasingly longer hold times.
Speaker 2: Really no really, So Jason and Peter went looking for
Speaker 2: reasons that customer service is getting worse and discovered that
Speaker 2: it is actually fairly intentional. Their expert guest Ams to Numa,
Speaker 2: will guide you through this twisted web and share his
Speaker 2: experience as a customer service evangelist, storyteller and technologist who
Speaker 2: is advised DirecTV Wendy's, Teleflora, Coca Cola, and the State
Speaker 2: of Oklahoma on how to connect emotional with employees and customers.
Speaker 4: Now here's the guys.
Speaker 1: Today, We're gonna We're.
Speaker 5: Going to talk about customer service, the field of customer service,
Speaker 5: which by anyone's estimation, including surveys and statistics, is getting
Speaker 5: worse and worse and worse and worse. We hate our
Speaker 5: experience of customer service no matter where. And I came
Speaker 5: across a story that I shared with Peter about a
Speaker 5: woman named Lisa Craig who lives in Colorado, who spent
Speaker 5: a grand total of eleven days over a six month period,
Speaker 5: eleven full days on hold with the Department of Employment
Speaker 5: trying to get our unemployment benefits. Really really, so imagine
Speaker 5: eleven days worth of time devoted to getting some human
Speaker 5: being to go. You didn't pay me what I mode
Speaker 5: it should be. It should be something that takes five minutes.
Speaker 5: Here's my here's my social Security number, here's my proof
Speaker 5: of employment. Here's the date of my termination. I'm on unemployed.
Speaker 1: I'm a check.
Speaker 6: It's just and then well, and then the big what
Speaker 6: begs the bigger question is if we know it and
Speaker 6: the companies have to know it. Sure, either they know
Speaker 6: it and can't fix it, or they know it and
Speaker 6: don't care about fixing it. So we wanted to find
Speaker 6: out what that is. I got some stats here. Globally,
Speaker 6: AI customer service market was worth three hundred and eight
Speaker 6: million and twenty twenty two. Now it's a two point
Speaker 6: eight billion dollar business because of AI and using using
Speaker 6: an I.
Speaker 1: Find out if AI is improving this.
Speaker 6: Well, this is the one that made me crazy because
Speaker 6: I had seen our guests reference this. But you know me,
Speaker 6: I like to vet stuff to make sure it's accurate.
Speaker 1: I know you.
Speaker 6: The oldest complaint none to man in the world is
Speaker 6: thirty eight hundred years old. It's a clay tablets in
Speaker 6: the ancient Sumerian city of Mesopotamia, and the detailed message
Speaker 6: I'm reading this measure it's the best. When you came,
Speaker 6: you said to me as follows, I will give you
Speaker 6: Gimmelson when he comes, fine quanty copper ingots. You left then,
Speaker 6: but you did not do what you promised me. You
Speaker 6: put ingots which were not good before my messenger and
Speaker 6: said if you want them, to take them. If you
Speaker 6: don't want them.
Speaker 1: Go away. What do you take me for that you
Speaker 1: treat somebody like me with such content? And he goes on,
Speaker 1: it's just like this is in a tablet.
Speaker 5: The guy had to sit ship away to write this thing, right, No,
Speaker 5: let me let me explain something to you. When they
Speaker 5: did this writing back then, the tablet was still in
Speaker 5: its soft clay for then the same night the guy
Speaker 5: who translated this, the person the person who translated it.
Speaker 1: Does that to go? Really, what's happening? Yeah? You think
Speaker 1: you found something? I got the dead Sea? Yeah right,
Speaker 1: and I gave you ten you gave me by I
Speaker 1: waited three days. Where they are not the best. It's
Speaker 1: the earliest yell.
Speaker 6: P thirty eight hundred year old people are.
Speaker 1: It's good to know they were. But I can't get
Speaker 1: a person. You send a camera. You said you said
Speaker 1: the guy would be here. He's not here.
Speaker 6: So why a customer service rating is getting worse? Do
Speaker 6: they not care? Do they know how to fix it?
Speaker 6: Or is AI around the corner. It's going to solve
Speaker 6: all our problems. Let's introduce our guests.
Speaker 5: Amast Nooma a former customer care consultant at IBM and
Speaker 5: the author of Waiting for Service. He is an author,
Speaker 5: a keynote speaker, and consultant and consumer experience technology and stoicism.
Speaker 1: You need to find out what the hell that means? H,
Speaker 1: I know what that means. My fault live in my house.
Speaker 5: A founder of the Better Experienced Group, he's one of
Speaker 5: the world's most highly respected thought leaders anywhere when it
Speaker 5: comes to customer service and I understand. Without putting words
Speaker 5: in his mouth, he says, the apparent ineptitude in customer
Speaker 5: care is on purpose.
Speaker 1: Is that the way show this is?
Speaker 3: This is a thrill?
Speaker 1: It is?
Speaker 3: It is true.
Speaker 7: I think most of what we experience today has done
Speaker 7: on purpose, not maliciously, but it's on purpose.
Speaker 6: Is it because they don't care? Because in society not
Speaker 6: like the company is so big? Where else you going?
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's that's part of it in less competitive industries.
Speaker 7: But it's all about the incentive. So if you think
Speaker 7: when you contact the company, so when people ask me,
Speaker 7: how do you get better service? Well, tell them you
Speaker 7: want to buy some press one for sales and they
Speaker 7: answer the phone right away.
Speaker 1: You get a human Okay, Well.
Speaker 7: Because when that call happens, the company gets richer. But
Speaker 7: when you call for service, I already have your money,
Speaker 7: Like I've gotten your money. Every additional cent or dollar
Speaker 7: I spent talking to you paying people to just reduces
Speaker 7: the profit. And as long as that is the economic calculus,
Speaker 7: then they will bring in people like me, Hey, how
Speaker 7: can you give them good service so that they're not
Speaker 7: pitchforks in front of the office, right, But don't spend
Speaker 7: too much? Can you use automation, and that's kind of
Speaker 7: incentive structure is at the heart of that customer service.
Speaker 6: So is it truth because we've all gone through this
Speaker 6: and you don't think about it. Is it true that
Speaker 6: the first person you get to the first level you
Speaker 6: get to, their whole job is they ain't going to
Speaker 6: give you anything. They're not qualified to give you anything,
Speaker 6: they're not trained to give you anything. And as a
Speaker 6: matter of fact, they're told don't give them anything, so
Speaker 6: that if you persevere to the next level, that person
Speaker 6: may be able to give you something that's intentional.
Speaker 7: Right, it's not as bad as they don't have any authority.
Speaker 7: But these are assembly lines. So you don't give a
Speaker 7: thousand customer service agents credits ability to issue one hundred
Speaker 7: dollars credit. You make it a little bit difficult so
Speaker 7: that the subset of customers will go, you know what,
Speaker 7: I'm not doing this again, will I will quit? Which
Speaker 7: impacts the bottom line. And I think this goes back
Speaker 7: to what I said in the beginning. It's not so
Speaker 7: much malice, it's just profitable.
Speaker 3: It really is. It's just the profit motive, that's what
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 5: I know, in prepping for this, I saw a lot
Speaker 5: about how to build customer loyalty. Isn't there a greater
Speaker 5: long range profitability from having a customer service experience that
Speaker 5: is gratifying for the customer rather than you know, say,
Speaker 5: it seems like tripping over dollars to pick up dimes,
Speaker 5: right right.
Speaker 7: You are absolutely correct, and there's data that validates that
Speaker 7: that point.
Speaker 3: The problem is the average length of a CEO is
Speaker 3: less than two years.
Speaker 7: So the difference between spending money on customer service versus say, marketing,
Speaker 7: If I give customer service a dollar in five years,
Speaker 7: I get ten. If I give marketing a dollar next quarter,
Speaker 7: I get two. Well, I won't be here in five years,
Speaker 7: so I so you're correct the math. The data is
Speaker 7: on the side of I've got that on my side,
Speaker 7: but in the age of short termism, I'm you know,
Speaker 7: we're fighting a really, really tough battle.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 6: The other thing, okay, the other part of this is
Speaker 6: and I saw and I have the list of the
Speaker 6: companies that do it well, that have trained people and
Speaker 6: they all feel part of it and they feel included
Speaker 6: and they get paid. But most of these companies are
Speaker 6: using call centers part time whatever it is, and they
Speaker 6: don't care if the person feels fulfilled at their job,
Speaker 6: they just need vuny.
Speaker 3: Correct, you're you're correct.
Speaker 7: I often say to people when I talk about this
Speaker 7: that if you think companies treat customers badly, wait till
Speaker 7: you hear they treat their customer service employees. So the
Speaker 7: most popular job in customer service is a call center agent.
Speaker 7: There's a quote I use in my book. I didn't
Speaker 7: write it. He writes, federal prisoners have more freedom call
Speaker 7: center agents, and he is not that wrong. Because you're
Speaker 7: tendered to a headset. They track how many minutes you
Speaker 7: spend going to the bathroom. I am not kidding. By
Speaker 7: the way, you have to read the script. You sound
Speaker 7: like you're in a hostage video.
Speaker 3: Thank you for calling. It's they take all these humanity out.
Speaker 7: The pay is low, and it's because if you think
Speaker 7: about the evolution of the worker, it's been about cost.
Speaker 7: In the nineties, Let's ship this to India and then
Speaker 7: the Philippines cheaper and cheaper, and then press one, press
Speaker 7: two automation.
Speaker 3: Now it's AI. Companies have been awaiting to get rid of.
Speaker 3: How do I lower lower, lower, lower and lower lower
Speaker 3: this cost? Now there are good ways. I am a technologist.
Speaker 7: They're good ways to do technology, but let's make no
Speaker 7: mistakes about it, the treatment of those employees. So those
Speaker 7: employees have no autonomy. There are reading scripts. The only
Speaker 7: exceptions I'm sure you found in your research. One thing
Speaker 7: they usually have in common. It's a founder se CEO
Speaker 7: who believes and he founded the company and he's like,
Speaker 7: you know, we are going to treat people well and
Speaker 7: we're going to make customer service out of thin If
Speaker 7: you don't have that, there are very few examples where
Speaker 7: they do it well because they just look at the
Speaker 7: map and go, yeah, short term, let's call costs and
Speaker 7: we'll worry about it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you gave an example.
Speaker 6: I think it was wonderful, and I forget the copany
Speaker 6: you'll know where a woman complained all the time, kept
Speaker 6: going complaining whatever. He reached out there the head of
Speaker 6: the company, Southwest Airlines and said yeah, see you later,
Speaker 6: basically because he trusts people more than he trusted this caller,
Speaker 6: so because he knows how the people are trained. But
Speaker 6: how many companies have a founder, well, even globally where
Speaker 6: that's that's important, and they have their marketing departments tied
Speaker 6: to their customer service department manager.
Speaker 3: I don't think I know ten right globally.
Speaker 7: Uh And and if it's more than ten, they're usually
Speaker 7: small companies like there's a there's a Thai restaurant by
Speaker 7: my house here in Owfolk City. They do a phenomenal job,
Speaker 7: great customer at scale, and all of them, whether it
Speaker 7: Zappo's the story you just told is a Southwest airline
Speaker 7: of the great Herb Keller.
Speaker 3: Her Herb is now passed away. And you've heard the
Speaker 3: Southwest story.
Speaker 7: Southwest has changed, right, And they're not the same company
Speaker 7: because once that's I always ask company people this, how
Speaker 7: many CEOs came from customer service in the fortune and
Speaker 7: five hundred? That gives you an indication when I used
Speaker 7: I used to run a large customer service though for
Speaker 7: consumer packaged goods, and I was no higher than I
Speaker 7: was a VP at a big office.
Speaker 3: But I was a trash collector.
Speaker 7: I was the guy, you know, like, it's customer service,
Speaker 7: how do we reduce that cost as low as possible?
Speaker 3: You know, marketing and sales, that's.
Speaker 7: The shiny object, even though long term that's where all
Speaker 7: the loyalty is, and that's where it is.
Speaker 3: So that's that's that's where we are.
Speaker 7: But the consumer is also a part of this, and
Speaker 7: I hope we get there because we the consumers are
Speaker 7: a part of the problem too.
Speaker 1: We are we have become much more demanding.
Speaker 6: So I can assume when you get a call and
Speaker 6: you're in a customer service center, I'm entitled to something
Speaker 6: more than you're giving me. So there's a whole different aspect, right, Yeah,
Speaker 6: when the customer.
Speaker 5: Calls up and opens with all right, as, it's probably
Speaker 5: gonna go south pretty bad.
Speaker 7: I mean, every call center has a policy for how
Speaker 7: to deal with profety. I mean, this is how often
Speaker 7: it happens. I think the general public, especially us, you know,
Speaker 7: we we do that even where their choices.
Speaker 3: It always surprises me the choices people make.
Speaker 7: I will I'll pick on Spirit Airlines because they're an
Speaker 7: easy target.
Speaker 3: Spirit Airlines.
Speaker 7: Uh, at Christmas they sent us a six year old
Speaker 7: on a company minor to the wrong city.
Speaker 3: Ship them off to the wrong city.
Speaker 7: Right, here's the thing about Spirit Airline customers loyal they
Speaker 7: know about Spirit Airlines. Same thing we'll Walmart customers's website
Speaker 7: saying Walmart is horrible. They complain from Walmart inside of it.
Speaker 7: So there's a little bit of this dissonance where maybe
Speaker 7: we're lazy, we don't want to switch.
Speaker 3: Well, we know pain has coming, and we just.
Speaker 1: Anyway.
Speaker 7: The best sign of great customer service is not because
Speaker 7: the customers tell them to do it.
Speaker 3: It's because innately that you.
Speaker 7: Know, founder or that owner knows in his heart, I'm
Speaker 7: going to own this business for the next fifty years.
Speaker 7: I'm going to build customer loyalty and we are going
Speaker 7: to do this right. Will give up a little today
Speaker 7: because good customer service is expensive, you know, Okay.
Speaker 1: So you keep saying that saving cross saving costs, is
Speaker 1: that the first place they always look to cut.
Speaker 3: Yes, because customer service is a game of defense.
Speaker 7: You're not playing offense. Customer service is not the reason.
Speaker 7: It's like the trash collector. You don't move into a
Speaker 7: neighbor because they've got good trash service. But when that
Speaker 7: goes wrong, that's the reason you're going to be out
Speaker 7: of there and you move. And so in a world
Speaker 7: where we are in a short termism, give it to
Speaker 7: me now, it gets very hard. And this is why
Speaker 7: technology becomes the star of the show because instead of
Speaker 7: hiring people and kind of I could slap technology on
Speaker 7: the thin and maybe I can.
Speaker 5: Okay, So the question becomes, then, is there a future
Speaker 5: for technology and AI that will improve.
Speaker 1: Customers experience of customer service?
Speaker 3: Ah?
Speaker 5: Is there a future for technology and AI that will
Speaker 5: improve customers experience of customer service? A.
Speaker 7: We're going to spend some time in the wilderness first,
Speaker 7: so let me tell you how I see it. We
Speaker 7: had technology in the nineties and two thousand's the phone,
Speaker 7: automated systems, and we blew it. You know, it started nicely.
Speaker 7: You have your ATM, you can go in and make
Speaker 7: a Withdoral twenty dollars. And I would argue the standard,
Speaker 7: I say is automation needs to be superior than the human.
Speaker 7: And the proof is when you go to the bank.
Speaker 7: If there's a teller and there's an ATM and all
Speaker 7: you needed was twenty bucks, you choose then ATM every
Speaker 7: time because it's better, it's faster, it's easier, better than
Speaker 7: the human. But if you want to make a withdrawal.
Speaker 7: But then they added, oh, if you want to make
Speaker 7: a Withdraoral at the ATM. They did the same thing
Speaker 7: with the press one, press two, and the tree got
Speaker 7: all crazy. We're doing the same thing again with AI.
Speaker 7: But I think we have a chance to get it right.
Speaker 7: And the way I think we get it right is
Speaker 7: instead of how do I just eliminate talking to you
Speaker 7: all together, what I advice company is use that assistant,
Speaker 7: that AI assistant to help the human get it done
Speaker 7: faster and more efficiently. So what should be a ten
Speaker 7: minute phone call could be five. So if we use
Speaker 7: AI to make that job smarter, Yes, there's plenty of
Speaker 7: opportunities and things we can automate and eliminate the human.
Speaker 7: But how about we focus on making that job less
Speaker 7: miserable and pouring the technology there. Unfortunately we're not doing
Speaker 7: that yet.
Speaker 3: But that's the path, all right.
Speaker 1: I think I just came up with it, and you,
Speaker 1: if you scale this will hunt you down. You can
Speaker 1: be a partner. I just gone to this, ready for this,
Speaker 1: So listen, I'll hunt you. Listen to this. I'm coming
Speaker 1: up with this idea.
Speaker 3: Listen to the good one.
Speaker 1: Because you'll hear what he's going to know. This is
Speaker 1: genius work. Oh I got him off the phone quick. No,
Speaker 1: he's going to say this is genius. He's going to know.
Speaker 1: He's going to know and you're going to know that
Speaker 1: this is genius. So let me take you guys, did
Speaker 1: not I tee this up?
Speaker 2: Big?
Speaker 1: Go with me on this? Not joking? I know the
Speaker 1: jokey face joky face gone.
Speaker 6: So I call a customer service lotline and I'm already
Speaker 6: keyed up because there's a problem. It gives your choice.
Speaker 6: Would you like this resolved by George Gastanza? Would you
Speaker 6: like it resolved by and we have celebrity customer service
Speaker 6: AI that will resolve your problem?
Speaker 1: You have so many problems? Can I just tell you
Speaker 1: what your problem?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 5: First of all, if I have to record, all right,
Speaker 5: that's problem number two. So you've gone around me when
Speaker 5: I've somehow granted you, you're making AI me use my
Speaker 5: proceed I don't excuse me.
Speaker 3: I have to talk to you.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, I have no excuse me. How much fun
Speaker 1: would that be?
Speaker 3: You're not using George.
Speaker 1: Already talked to Larry and Jerry. You're making money every time.
Speaker 1: If you can get Larry and Jerry, you get Larry Jerry.
Speaker 1: You're not getting George Costanza. Got George. You're not wouldn't
Speaker 1: wouldn't you?
Speaker 4: It would?
Speaker 6: It would completely alleviate the tension you feel participatory. Nobody
Speaker 6: who you can do Jyle or you can do like
Speaker 6: it's all of those reading cards William Shatner.
Speaker 3: When mister I want my.
Speaker 1: Reef on, mister Shanner, let me tell you how we shutner.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something. You're not getting your refine.
Speaker 3: I mean, would that you're something?
Speaker 1: I know I'm wanting something and.
Speaker 3: George Costanzo only I don't. Don't You don't have to
Speaker 3: sample a sample of the boys and I can take
Speaker 3: it from there.
Speaker 1: You don't want that? Do you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: I don't making thirty thousands an hour? Where can I start?
Speaker 1: We could just start when I just went on strike
Speaker 1: to avoid this exactly after Frank Dresher's listening friend. You
Speaker 1: may have missed an area, but that would but joking
Speaker 1: a side that would work right because he's giving people
Speaker 1: another level of something.
Speaker 5: And that's what to make the idea of making the
Speaker 5: experience at least someone engaging and entertainment.
Speaker 1: We did that. People you know who I argue today
Speaker 1: are going to take seven years to get used that.
Speaker 1: Andrew Jackson is not giving my money my Vendo money back.
Speaker 1: Send us on. But look at let me say it's
Speaker 1: not a stupid idea.
Speaker 3: Right, Hey, I think I think you're on to something.
Speaker 7: Especially depending on your industry, you may bring a little
Speaker 7: levity to it.
Speaker 6: And you're not so serious, Yeah, because people address it already.
Speaker 6: You're coming to the thing with a problem. So how
Speaker 6: do you How many companies now there is no telephone number,
Speaker 6: there is no office building this company does they're a
Speaker 6: huge company. How many companies now will not let you
Speaker 6: even call them or talk to them?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a growing number.
Speaker 7: Maybe the most popular one that recently did it was
Speaker 7: Frontier Airlines. They just said, no phone numbers, you can't
Speaker 7: call us, period.
Speaker 3: End the story. You've got to use emails.
Speaker 1: Is there a way around that?
Speaker 3: That you know there is?
Speaker 7: There's always a way. So when I tell people how
Speaker 7: do we change how do we change things? And there
Speaker 7: are a few pressure points. Number one, vote with your wallet.
Speaker 7: But number two, when you have this kind of issue,
Speaker 7: the person who cares are the executives. So and their
Speaker 7: website's dedicated to this. You find the CEO and the
Speaker 7: ALLC suite. In fact, you go on there, you just.
Speaker 3: Copy and paste. Particularly if it's a big enough.
Speaker 7: Company, you shoot them an email and you tell them
Speaker 7: what your issue is a you know what that CEO
Speaker 7: does because it's done to me.
Speaker 3: He or she doesn't even read it. They hit forward
Speaker 3: and they say make this go away.
Speaker 7: And then all of a sudden, all the things that
Speaker 7: they say were impossible because all the CEO does not
Speaker 7: want to get that email. Then social media, but that's
Speaker 7: the way you need a lot of people are using
Speaker 7: that now but contacting that and it does impact change
Speaker 7: because once the CEO gets twenty thirty emails, he goes
Speaker 7: to whoever is the over that apartment, the CEO whatever
Speaker 7: and say, hey, listen, something's going wrong with customer service
Speaker 7: and whatever. That then is will get funded. But it's
Speaker 7: a cost. So if you think about I know, I
Speaker 7: keep saying this the cost. The most expensive channel is
Speaker 7: when I talk to you in person, then when I
Speaker 7: talk to you over the phone. Then the cheapest channels
Speaker 7: is what they you know, chatbots. There's no human press one,
Speaker 7: press two.
Speaker 1: Oh. By the way, those chats.
Speaker 6: Anytime I do any of those chats, it never understands
Speaker 6: does the chat also know to wear me down?
Speaker 1: Is that also? Is that also a programmed to say
Speaker 1: make them go away? The chat is actually going then again,
Speaker 1: I mean unbelievable.
Speaker 5: Well, the chatbots if they I have to say, if
Speaker 5: I'm ever recorded talking to a chat butt, you get
Speaker 5: you get my attitude.
Speaker 1: The minute I know I'm with a chatbot, it's like,
Speaker 1: do you have it? Are you calling about this?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Did you ever type in your issue? Do you ever
Speaker 1: type in your shoe? It's just why did I? Why
Speaker 1: did I bother you?
Speaker 3: Will? You will like this?
Speaker 7: So the good news is with Jenny I. The chatbots
Speaker 7: are getting smarter so they can converse in English.
Speaker 1: What have you?
Speaker 7: I'll tell your story. So Eric, Canada, a customer goes
Speaker 7: on there is chatting with the chatbot. The chatbot made
Speaker 7: up a credit policy and then promised to issue them
Speaker 7: over one thousand dollars with the credit that they did
Speaker 7: not deserve. So guy gets the credits and the company
Speaker 7: comes back and says, oh, chatbot made a mistake.
Speaker 3: From movin.
Speaker 7: He takes them to Small Claims court, wins, and the
Speaker 7: judge says, you have to honor the request. The body
Speaker 7: is your employee. You gotta give up. So I'm sharing
Speaker 7: that to tell you the next generation of chapbots that
Speaker 7: we're building are actually too smart.
Speaker 3: Now you have to control this thing.
Speaker 7: It's like a toddler and say, hey, don't go there,
Speaker 7: don't issue this, don't make things up, and we call
Speaker 7: it guardrails. So I'm telling you chatbots are getting better,
Speaker 7: but I'm worried a lot of companies will pull them
Speaker 7: after this lawsuit because they're scared.
Speaker 1: Thing going out and chaf thoughts are like the ending
Speaker 1: of the producers. You know, they're going to do another
Speaker 1: Broadway musical. They're selling to the prisoners.
Speaker 5: They congratulations, you're now on fifty percent of prisoners of love. Congratulations.
Speaker 1: You're not.
Speaker 5: You're now on one hundred percent of prisoners in love.
Speaker 1: Congratulations. You know I'm twenty five percent. It's just it's
Speaker 1: just randomly giving people. It's gonna be lost. So it's
Speaker 1: going I own, Hey, hang on, is gonna Why are
Speaker 1: you even bothering here? I would buy the competitive brand.
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, yeah, they went rogue. Wow. So the
Speaker 1: industry is still got a long way to God.
Speaker 3: We do yeah, it is it is? Now, how do
Speaker 3: you it's we now have a powerful chapbot. It's smart,
Speaker 3: smarter than the ones you're used to.
Speaker 7: Now, it's how do we put enough guardrails so it
Speaker 7: doesn't go nuts and and do do things.
Speaker 6: And what about getting your manager? I don't listen. I
Speaker 6: told the story nine times. Just give them your supervisor already.
Speaker 6: Will that get you a supervisor who has the authority?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: So the way there's an arts to it.
Speaker 7: So remember every call is being courted, and they have
Speaker 7: a deal, and they have a metric that says a
Speaker 7: moss is a service agent.
Speaker 3: You have to escalate as few calls as possible, So
Speaker 3: you want to be on their side.
Speaker 7: So you come in and if you are belligerent, if
Speaker 7: you are attacking, let me just say this to your listeners.
Speaker 7: If you are attacking the service agents, you've already missed
Speaker 7: the plot, like they are just a hostage as you
Speaker 7: are in this whole situation. So instead you want to
Speaker 7: go listen. I know you're doing your job. You know
Speaker 7: you are befriend them. I know you would give me
Speaker 7: this credit if it was up to you. I get
Speaker 7: it's not up to you, and you go get me
Speaker 7: the manager. So now I've given them the keywords because
Speaker 7: I know what the scoring is. The score and says
Speaker 7: they have to try to de escalate, so tolerate them.
Speaker 7: They would say, hey, because someone's listening, Hey can I
Speaker 7: do X, Y and Z. Allow them listen to them
Speaker 7: and say, hey, great job, thank you for offriend. I
Speaker 7: know you're just doing your job. This the policy is
Speaker 7: the problem transfer and then they'll go. But if you don't,
Speaker 7: if you antagonize them and you get them in trouble,
Speaker 7: they have no incentive to get you to the management.
Speaker 7: But again that's a job for they're counting the seconds.
Speaker 7: When I said, there is how much time you get
Speaker 7: in the bathroom, I was in kidd. There's something they
Speaker 7: call adherence because you've got to have this umbilical cord
Speaker 7: to your headset. So I need to know you are
Speaker 7: going to be on the phones from three to three
Speaker 7: twenty and you can take that break from three twenty
Speaker 7: to three thirty five. If you take it later or earlier,
Speaker 7: that screws up the whole thing because we just have
Speaker 7: just enough humans.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, you don't only have amount of time.
Speaker 1: You have time a window.
Speaker 7: If you miss it, it's a bad mark on what
Speaker 7: we call schedule adherents.
Speaker 3: Because now I was expecting this manory people. You can't
Speaker 3: go to lunch with your friend.
Speaker 1: What's the turnover? Right here?
Speaker 7: At customer service on on average it's in the fifty
Speaker 7: something percent, so you lose half the.
Speaker 1: Those are the go off per how your first room break, but.
Speaker 7: The the bad centers are turning over two hundred percent.
Speaker 7: So you are it's just You're just it's just a giant.
Speaker 1: I did poor little India and selected to be well.
Speaker 7: Well, we ran out of English speaking people at a price,
Speaker 7: so you got to go where else in the world
Speaker 7: do they speak English that I could pay four dollars
Speaker 7: an hour too? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is that price lading?
Speaker 7: Now?
Speaker 1: Are they going to different countries? So what countries are
Speaker 1: they moving to and what price point?
Speaker 7: So Africa is the new deal because we've we've run
Speaker 7: out of people in the Philippines, even the Philippines government.
Speaker 7: I don't know what this call center work anymore. We
Speaker 7: have our our economy has involved. India is pushing back,
Speaker 7: so we're going to places like South Africa right where
Speaker 7: unemployment rate is eighty percent. So all of a sudden,
Speaker 7: you know, you get to cost down fully loaded at
Speaker 7: three bucks an hour, So we're going to pretty dangerous parts.
Speaker 7: When I used to do this, I went to places
Speaker 7: I've done my most traveling looking for cheap labor. I
Speaker 7: didn't know a place called Guyana existed. I went to Bogata,
Speaker 7: so I was looking bilingual in expensive agents. I remember
Speaker 7: this is early two thousands. I'm in the cab and
Speaker 7: I've got my arm handing you off the window, and
Speaker 7: the driver says something in Spanish. I don't speak Spanish,
Speaker 7: and the guy who's spoking, they said, hey, you need
Speaker 7: to put your hands in the car.
Speaker 1: He goes.
Speaker 7: You see those guys riding those bicycles, they will chop
Speaker 7: off your wrist to get your watch. And I had
Speaker 7: a cheap Cassio watch, and I remember calling my mom
Speaker 7: and my mom says, what kind of a job.
Speaker 1: Do you have?
Speaker 8: I go, I run a call center, good place, I'm armless,
Speaker 8: I'm on me. Wow, but I know where to get
Speaker 8: a Casio watch. But that's going to change now. So
Speaker 8: how soon you predict that AI is going to be
Speaker 8: smart enough lack of a better term, that it's going
Speaker 8: to be able to converse and do it, do it
Speaker 8: right and help everybody out.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I think in the next twenty four months, all the
Speaker 7: easy stuff will be done by what I would call
Speaker 7: competent AI.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 7: So an example would be even me just calling in
Speaker 7: and my airline, for example, and just saying hey, look
Speaker 7: you didn't give me my points from this flight or
Speaker 7: what have you. Competent AI will take that out the
Speaker 7: more complex off. So the hope is the companies get
Speaker 7: their cost savings because we automate and then we then
Speaker 7: focus on the on the employees, so they will get
Speaker 7: their cost savings. But if your issue is complicated, humans
Speaker 7: are safe those jobs from somewhat protected.
Speaker 1: So there you go.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for coming on, Alice Tanuma. If
Speaker 5: there's going to be a solution, I have a feeling
Speaker 5: that's coming from you.
Speaker 3: Thank you. This has been a treat.
Speaker 6: So I'm looking here at the top the Forbes list
Speaker 6: and I can go to every category. If you want to,
Speaker 6: you can go to Forbes Best Customer Service list and
Speaker 6: you can put in by categories. These are just the
Speaker 6: top the top some of the top customer service. Let
Speaker 6: me pick Dollywood. You mentioned Dollywood, Dollywood that I imagine
Speaker 6: would be very good.
Speaker 1: Zappos.
Speaker 6: We know about Federal Express, quick Trip warby Parker, Valvelene,
Speaker 6: Instant all Change apparently discount tired pulling customers.
Speaker 5: What's the complaint then all this stuff in my tank
Speaker 5: and what's the complaint.
Speaker 6: I guess they do good show trader jos He said,
Speaker 6: us A A R E. I. Number two is Shick
Speaker 6: fil A and number one so I guess when you
Speaker 6: go to chick blink that's a sandwich, right know, they go, okay,
Speaker 6: all right, we here, yeah, we hear you. And then
Speaker 6: the ups store is number one, which is they are
Speaker 6: pretty commodated. Yes they are so, but it starts again.
Speaker 6: It starts from, like you said, the CEO down and
Speaker 6: if you're not taking care of your hourly employees, they're
Speaker 6: not going to really care about.
Speaker 5: What did we get today, sir, Well, we learned a
Speaker 5: lot about customer service, didn't we think you?
Speaker 9: But the questions that came to mind is are companies
Speaker 9: that are older or newer better at customer service? Is
Speaker 9: it something that has to be refined over years and years?
Speaker 9: And that sort of got me going down a well
Speaker 9: of what is the oldest business that is still operating today?
Speaker 5: I know what the oldest business is supposedly, but I
Speaker 5: don't know that there's a singular emporium.
Speaker 10: An actual business, not like a like a Ford, No
Speaker 10: older than that, older than America.
Speaker 1: Business way older Gouden printing getting closer really but not Yeah.
Speaker 5: Would it be wine making thing? Would it be what
Speaker 5: would it say, chariots or us? I don't think they're advertising.
Speaker 1: No, so that one. I have no idea. What you guys.
Speaker 9: The oldest business that is still operating to this day
Speaker 9: is one thousand, four hundred years old. It's headquartered in Osaka, Japan,
Speaker 9: and it's called Congo Gumi.
Speaker 4: It was began operating in five seventy eight a d.
Speaker 11: It's a Japanese construction company that mainly works on the
Speaker 11: design and construction and restoration of temples, castles and other
Speaker 11: cultural heritage business.
Speaker 1: Wow, and there's such amazing You know what's amazing about
Speaker 1: that too, that there's no other company that knocked them
Speaker 1: off to take it, you know, to be the company
Speaker 1: that they're still doing it.
Speaker 9: Well, Japan must have some thing right, because if you
Speaker 9: look at the ten oldest companies in that are still operating,
Speaker 9: they are six out.
Speaker 1: Of the ten. What are some of the others? What
Speaker 1: are some of the others just as that are not
Speaker 1: the Japanese ones? What are the anyone? We'd know?
Speaker 4: The oldest restaurant, this one is actually in Austria.
Speaker 9: It's uh called the Saint Peter Stiffs Culinarium, which it's
Speaker 9: at Saltzburg, Austria, and it has been operating since eight
Speaker 9: oh three.
Speaker 1: I wonder if they changed the recipes, the recipes at all?
Speaker 5: Are these stiffs fasah?
Speaker 1: You know my family here in seven hundred years ago
Speaker 1: and that's worth of free rice punning? Right?
Speaker 4: Wow, Wow, there's a lot of there's a lot of
Speaker 4: wine brees, you.
Speaker 1: Know those sorts of things. Yeah, a family restaurant. Do
Speaker 1: you think we should redo the rugs this year? Well, folks,
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed the show. If you didn't, the
Speaker 1: number to call is we don't have a number.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Producing, Laurie, producing Dame, thank you Peter, Thank
Speaker 5: you everybody for spending some time with us.
Speaker 1: And uh got and buy something. We hope it does great. Now.
Speaker 2: Really that's another episode of really no really comes to
Speaker 2: a close. I know you're asking me for some good news,
Speaker 2: like which companies rank in the top ten for excellent
Speaker 2: customer service. Well, I'm here to serve you. Right after,
Speaker 2: I thank our guest, a mas Tanuma. He is easy
Speaker 2: to follow once you know his name. His website is
Speaker 2: a Mastanuma dot com and Instagram, YouTube, an x he
Speaker 2: is at Amas to Numa really. Find all pertinent links
Speaker 2: in our show notes, our little show hangs out on Instagram,
Speaker 2: TikTok YouTube, and threads at really No Really podcast, And
Speaker 2: of course you can share your thoughts and feedback with.
Speaker 3: Us online at reallynoreally dot com.
Speaker 2: If you have a really some amazing factor story that
Speaker 2: boggles your mind, share it with us and if we
Speaker 2: use it, we will send you a little gift. Nothing
Speaker 2: life changing, obviously, but it's the thought that counts. Check
Speaker 2: out our full episodes on YouTube, hit that subscribe button
Speaker 2: and take that bell. So here updated when we release
Speaker 2: new videos and episodes, which we do each Tuesday, So
Speaker 2: listen and follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts. And now I hear
Speaker 2: you saying, hey, no hit me with that list of
Speaker 2: excellent customer servers. Well, here's the top ten of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three, as listed by a Forbes Magazine survey. Number
Speaker 2: ten Dutch Brothers Coffee, number nine, Discount Tire, number eight,
Speaker 2: Mission Barbecue one of.
Speaker 4: My favorite missions.
Speaker 2: Number seven, Public Supermarkets, Number six, l Schwab Tire Centers
Speaker 2: Apparently they really know how to serve you at tire
Speaker 2: places number five Trader Joe's, number four, USAA, the insurance company,
Speaker 2: number three, ARII, the specialty sporting and recreation company, number
Speaker 2: two good Old Chick fil A, and number one the
Speaker 2: UPS Store. So if you ever want to get a
Speaker 2: box of coffee, tires, barbecue, and sporting goods in short
Speaker 2: and set in the mail sleeps soundly customers, because someone
Speaker 2: out there really cares. Really no really is a production
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio and Blaise Entertainment