1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. In 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: our last episode, we discussed a common but enthralling literary 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: motif in Irish mythology, the triple and the sevenfold I 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: three or seven pupils three or seven iris is found 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: in the eyes of beautiful heroes, divine seers, destructive monsters. 8 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: We also discussed the structure and functionality of the human 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: eye and the rare instances in which we actually see 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: double pupils in human eyes. In this episode, we're going 11 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: to explore more curious eyes from the natural world, as 12 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: well as more accounts of marvelous eyes from ancient history 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: and literature. But first, a pop culture update. Um At 14 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: the end of last episode we were talking about I 15 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: spoke briefly about some some double eyes that I've remembered 16 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: from some movies, album covers, etcetera. Well, Our our good 17 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,639 Speaker 1: producer Seth provided us with two additional examples of double 18 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: eyes and popular culture that we didn't think of last time. 19 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: Number one, the double irises and pupils of aminet. In 20 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: two thousand, seventeens The Mummy. This is the Tom Cruise 21 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: Mummy film. Oh boy, did not see it, but I 22 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: think this is like the the titular Mummy, or at 23 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: least one of them. I think she is the Mummy 24 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: in this film. I'm okay, I haven't seen this one, 25 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: not even on an airplane, but I'm not opposed to it. 26 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,919 Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen a lot of crummy Mummy movies 27 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: over the years, and usually there's something interesting in them. Yeah, 28 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: at least sometimes you get an Arnold Fosloo or something. Yeah. Uh. 29 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: And then the second example Seth brings up is the 30 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: album cover to Uh Bubba by Haitian Canadian musician um 31 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: K Trenada, featuring the artist with otherworldly blue eyes that 32 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: have double pupils, double irises. I listened to a track 33 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: from this album while we were working on notes. It 34 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: was good. I haven't had a chance yet, but I 35 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: do love the album cover. It's pretty great. Now. One 36 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: of the sources that we mentioned in the last episode 37 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: was the Evil Eye in early Irish literature and law. 38 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: This was published in Celtica twenty four back in two 39 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: thousand three. Uh and this was by Jacqueline borsch and Um, 40 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: the author of Fergus Kelly is also cited on this 41 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 1: paper because there's like a part one in a part two, 42 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 1: but I believe we were we dealt with material from 43 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: part one. Celtica. The journal this is in is a 44 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: scholarly journal for Celtic studies out of the Dublin Institute 45 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: for Advanced Studies. So most of this deals of course 46 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: with Irish law, Irish traditions, Irish mythology, UM, and UH 47 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: and in. Despite the popularity of this motif of the 48 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: of the multiple pupils, multiple irises within the Irish tradition, 49 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: we also encounter discussions of this sort of thing in 50 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: other traditions as well, and bor shares a few of 51 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,839 Speaker 1: these well. The first one, UH comes to us from 52 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: a plenty of the Elder and the Natural History. Plenty 53 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: discusses individuals in Africa said to possess quote the power 54 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: of fascination with the eyes and can even kill those 55 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: on whom they fix their gaze for any length of time, 56 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: more especially if their look denotes anger. Now that's your 57 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: pretty basic evil eye scenario right there. And you encounter 58 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: variations of this through throughout the world. UH. Based on 59 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: the fact that, yes, you can shoot somebody a really 60 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: terrible look, and you can you can almost feel it. 61 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: Of course, going back into the ancient world, the belief 62 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: was often that it was more than you know, giving 63 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: somebody the stink I produced more than just a bad feeling, 64 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: that it could literally curse them or cause them magical harm. Yes, 65 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: But the neat thing here where it ties into what 66 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about in these episodes is uh Plenty goes 67 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: on to connect this to multiple pupils quote. A still 68 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: more remarkable circumstance is the fact that these persons have 69 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: two pupils in each eye. Apollo Nides says that there 70 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: are certain females of this description in Scythia who are 71 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: known as the Bitha and Phi. Larches states that a 72 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: tribe of the Theebe in Pontus, and many other persons 73 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: as well have a double pupil in one eye and 74 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: in the other the figure of a horse. Double pupil 75 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: in one eye, the other the figure of a horse. Now, 76 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: with passages of this kind, we're often faced with the 77 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: question is this based on some distorted or exaggerated retelling 78 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: of something that somebody actually saw, or is it just 79 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: pure creative imagination or you know, tall tales, and it's 80 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: always interesting to wonder about the former, But ancient accounts 81 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: like Plenties are clearly full of the latter, especially when 82 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: telling stories about peoples who live in far away parts 83 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: of the globe. You know, this section that we're quoting 84 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: from Plenty is from I can't remember what it's called, 85 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: but there's like one of his books is all about 86 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: the nations of the world, and it's just all these 87 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: weird stories of like, here's a people who live somewhere 88 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: far away, and here's this strange thing they do or uh, 89 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: something that they wear that would be fascinating to to 90 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: my readers. Like there's one part where he talks about 91 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: a tribe of people somewhere who do not have heads 92 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: and instead have eyes in their breasts. So, uh, it 93 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: need not be the case that Plenty is necessarily here 94 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: repeating a misunderstood or exaggerated story about somebody who actually 95 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: had something like polycoria or some other unusual condition of 96 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: the pupils. But of course it is always possible. Yeah, 97 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: it does make make you wonder, you know, to what 98 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: extent would there be, like, you know, some account of 99 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: an individual with this this rare condition, uh, some memory 100 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: of this rare condition, and then it gets folded into 101 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: some of these traditions and beliefs at one point or 102 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: another in their long lives. Yes, though of course it 103 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: could again just be something somebody made, like the people 104 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: who don't have heads and have eyes in their breasts 105 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: right right, Like, we can dream up individuals with like 106 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: four arms, and it's pretty interesting and and we can 107 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: draw all sorts of meaning from that, But it doesn't 108 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: mean that that people with four arms ever actually existed, 109 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: you know, that there's any actual biological basis on which 110 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: that was based. Though. I do think it's really interesting 111 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: that he doesn't just say, okay, they've got two pupils 112 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: in each eye, but that they've got two pupils in 113 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: one eye and in the other eye a horse. Yeah, 114 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: And like my the first place my mind went was, Okay, 115 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: is it actually shaped like a horse a distortion that 116 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: is roughly horse shaped? Or is it Does it mean 117 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: that this is like some sort of telephone game, you know, 118 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: translation game version of horizontal pupil like one finds in 119 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: the eye of a horse. That's interesting and that will 120 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: tie into a scientific paper we're going to talk about 121 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: in a bit. I found an editor's footnote in the 122 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: Bostock translation of Plenty, which notes, quote, some of the 123 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: commentators have supposed Plenty or phi Larcis, from whom he borrows, 124 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: because remember, this isn't an original observation of Plenties. He's 125 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: like copying this from some other writing of this person 126 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: named phar Larcas, but phil Arcis from whom he borrows. 127 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: Whether they were misled by the ambiguity of the Greek 128 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: term eCos, which signifies either a horse or a tremulous 129 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: motion of the eye. But even admitting this to be 130 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: the case, the wonder is scarcely diminished, for we have 131 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: the double pupil in one eye, while this supposed tremulous 132 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: motion is confined to the other. So so if Fostuck 133 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: is correct there, it's that this word had had a 134 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: double meaning, and one of them was like a you know, 135 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: a quivering of the eye. I guess I would assume 136 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: that's like when somebody's eyes twitching. But yeah, you wonder, well, 137 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: why why is it just that the other eyes twitching 138 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: when when the first eye has two pupils in it. 139 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: That's also strange. Maybe not as strange as a horse. 140 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: Um I was. I was looking for answers on this 141 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: as well, and I ran across the paper titled of 142 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: the Papula Duplex and Other Tokens of an Evil Eye 143 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: in the Light of Ophthalmology by Walton Brooks McDaniel, UM 144 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: and uh. According to Brooks, here one Dr Kirby flower Smith, 145 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: a professor of Latin and the at John Hopkins University, 146 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: who had I looked at had died in UH interpreted 147 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: the Plenty passage as having some sort of connection to 148 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: the idea that the affliction of the eye was caused 149 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: by quote a horse shaped demon, horsehead mask demon. Yeah. 150 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: McDaniel also begins to discuss the the idea that if you, 151 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: you know, if you look into another eye, you know, 152 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: certainly with the right lighting and so forth, you look 153 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: into another person's eye, you can see your own reflection. 154 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: And so McDaniel mentions that, UH, in some traditions, that 155 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: that individual you see in the eye is interpreted, you know, 156 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: not as yourself, but as the signifier of the soul, 157 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: and that there are even some tradition where if the 158 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: individual looks in some way inverted, that is because of witchcraft. 159 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: And in this uh, this this is one of those 160 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: weird situations where then McDaniel mentioned something else that leads 161 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: me back to a source that I'm I'm very familiar with, 162 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: and yet I totally blinked on this particular detail or 163 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: or or maybe I've never read this one particular tale, 164 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 1: but he ends up referring back to Strange Tales from 165 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: a Chinese studio by Poosh song Ling. That's a show, favorite, folks. 166 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: Should we do we have a strange sales from a 167 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: Chinese studio buzzer? I doubt we do, But at any rate, 168 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a book that I really enjoy. This 169 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: is a Ching Dynasty um collection of stories that Pouh 170 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: song Ling collected and retails. And you know, there's a 171 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: lot that's that's lost in translation um out of Mandarin, 172 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: but but there's still remarkable fun sometimes funny, and sometimes 173 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: just very strange. Uh. Sometimes it's it's you know, it's 174 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: it's all about what they would have meant to the 175 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: people who read them. But there are a lot of 176 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: fun Uh. There's a Penguin edition of it translation that 177 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: I've I read again and again over the years, and 178 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: yet I completely blanked on this one story. It's called 179 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: Talking Pupils. I think maybe the reason that I haven't 180 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: read this one recently is sometimes i'll read these to 181 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,599 Speaker 1: my son and I'll sort of glance at them, and 182 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 1: if it looks like there's something that might be scandalous 183 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: in it, or you know, a little dirty, then I'll 184 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: skip over the tale. There aren't many, but occasionally there's 185 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: one like that. So anyway, this story Talking Pupils concerns 186 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: the tale of one Feng Dong quote, a gentleman of 187 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: considerable accomplishments while at the same time having a reputation 188 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: as an unprincipled libertine. Oh yeah, so clearly that's why 189 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: I might have skipped over this in recent years. Anyway, 190 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,079 Speaker 1: So Fang was this is how the story goes. Thing 191 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: is strolling the countryside and he happens on a fine 192 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: carriage on the road. Uh. One of the female attendants 193 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: to the carriage is quite fetching, so he moves in 194 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: for a closer look. But as he does so, he's 195 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: able to peek between the curtains of the carriage itself 196 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: and he sees a beautiful young woman within, and he's captivated. 197 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: The female attendant is having none of this, though, and 198 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: she verbally shames him. Uh, you know, call calls him 199 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: a you know, a weirdo and um, you know, a 200 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: snooper and uh, not only does she verbally shame him, 201 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: she reaches down, grabs some dust out of the road 202 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: and throws it in Fang's face. Oh, dirty fighter. Yeah, 203 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: but you know he had it coming. He was up 204 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: to no good and he gets punished for it. So 205 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: he's he's initially he's trying to get the dust out 206 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: of his eyes. The carriage carries on. When he is 207 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: able to see again, you know, struggling, the carriage is 208 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: is completely done. It's you know, it's vanished around the 209 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: bend or whatever. So he has heads on home, but 210 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: his eyes continue to bother him, so he seeks some help. 211 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: A friend looks into his eyes. Um, and this friend says, yeah, 212 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: there's a visible film over each of your eyeballs. And meanwhile, 213 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: tears won't stop flowing. In time, the film thickens and 214 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: a birls. What what is described as a spiral shaped 215 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: protuberance begins growing from his right eye, resisting all manner 216 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: of treatment. Eventually he's completely blind, and you know, he's 217 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: he's distraught over this. But he hears about a Buddhist 218 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: sutra known as the Sutra of Light, and it's said 219 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: to be able to heal eye ailments or ailments of 220 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: this sort. So he gets a sided friend to read 221 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: it to him, and he learns it by heart, and 222 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: he recites it over and over again, and after a 223 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: while it gives him solace. Uh, you know, he feels 224 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: a little better. His side is not back. But then 225 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: one day he begins to hear voices, two voices, one 226 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: from each of his eyeballs. Oh, I love this. The 227 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: eyeballs are talking, both of them. Well, as it turns out, 228 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: not the eyeballs, but things within the eyeballs. There's one 229 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: voice within each eyeball, and there they start talking to 230 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: each other, and they're talking about how dark it is 231 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: in their homes and how they'd really like to just 232 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: get outside and go for a stroll. And then so 233 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: puss on Ling says quote, then he felt a slight 234 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: irritation in both the nostrils, as if two little creatures 235 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: were wriggling down his nose. After a while, he felt 236 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: the creatures return and make their way back up his nostrils. 237 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: And into the eye sockets. Again, this is anatomically correct because, 238 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: as we know, the tear ducks that drained tears away 239 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: from the eyes drained into the nasal cavity, which is 240 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: why your nose runs when you cry. Very good. So, uh, 241 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: what does thing do at this point? Well, he gets 242 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: his wife to take him to the old garden, and 243 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 1: he has her observe him in the garden to see 244 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: if anything like this happens again. Maybe the garden will 245 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: coax whatever it is out of his eyeballs. And this 246 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: is what happens. Quote, it was not long before she 247 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: saw two little mannekins, neither of them any larger than 248 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: a bean, emerged from his nose and fly buzzing out 249 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: of the door. They were soon well out of sight. 250 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: But we're back again in next to no time, flying 251 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: together up onto his face and in at his nostrils, 252 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: like a pair of homing bees or ants. So is 253 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: he getting relief when they fly away? I don't think so. No, 254 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: It's just it happens, and he doesn't know what this 255 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: is about. So and it keeps happening. It happens again 256 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: each day for three days, and finally one of the 257 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: voices complains that the tunnel that they're using to get 258 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: out of the eyeball is a bit round about, uh, 259 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: and there's got to be a better way, right, It's 260 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: time that they make some sort of proper doorway. So 261 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to read uh the rest of this year. 262 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: That really gets to the juicy part. I'm just I'm 263 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: filled with dread. It's not a good idea when the 264 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: tenants in your eyeballs decided to start renovating on their own. 265 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: So that's how it goes. The wall on my side 266 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: is very thick, replied the right eye. It won't be easy. 267 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: I'll try to make an opening on my side, said 268 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: the left eye. Then we can share my door. Presently, 269 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: Fay thought he felt a scratching and a splitting in 270 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: his left eye socket, and an instant later he could 271 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: see he could see everything around him with absolute clarity, 272 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: beside himself with delight. He promptly informed his wife, who 273 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: inspected his eyes afresh and found that in the left 274 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: eye a minute aperture had appeared in the film, a 275 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: hole no larger than a cracked peppercorn, through which gleamed 276 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: the black globe of a pupil. By the next morning, 277 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: the film in the left eye had disappeared altogether. But 278 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: the strangest thing of all was that, on careful inspection, 279 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: there were now two pupils visible in that eye, and 280 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: the right eye was still obscured by its spiral shaped growth. 281 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: Apparently both of the two eye mannekins his talking pupils 282 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: had now taken up residence in the left eye. So 283 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: although Fang was still blind in one eye, he could 284 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: see better with his one good eye than he had 285 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: ever done with two. From that day forth he was 286 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: a great deal more circumspect in his behavior and acquired 287 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: unimpeccable reputation in the district. Okay, so no more creeping 288 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: on ladies and carriages. Right, he learned his uson. He 289 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: was you know, punished for his creepy behavior, and now 290 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: he's back and ready to be a good citizen with 291 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: one eye that can see better than two, right, because 292 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: two pupils um Now that this again is from the 293 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: Penguin Classics edition. It's a John Minford translation, and this 294 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: was super interesting as well. Minford shares this in the 295 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: notes Pupils. The traditional Chinese expression for pupil, tong wren, 296 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: means literally man in the pupil from the reflection of 297 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: oneself that one sees in the eye of another. Yeah, 298 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: that was that was really that. I was really impressed 299 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: by that. And I was talking to my wife about 300 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: it because I was looking around a little bit after this, 301 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: and I saw an article about photography and about being 302 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: able to zoom in on the eye of an individual 303 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: in a modern photograph and see the reflection potentially of 304 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: the photographer and because of the high resolution, I guess, yeah, yeah, 305 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: and uh. I was asking my wife about this, and 306 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: she pointed out that one the photographers can do is 307 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: you can pull up, say a head shot that another 308 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: photographer has done. You can zoom in on the eye 309 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: and you can see what they're lighting set up is. 310 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 1: So I was impressed by that as well. I'm impressed. 311 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: That's a real James Bond level trick. I do not 312 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: know what to make of the spiral growth though. Um. 313 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: I looked around briefly on that, and I was not 314 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: able to find any answers that seemed up convincing. I 315 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: have no expertise on spiral growths from eyes than all right, 316 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: I want to go back to Borsch for just a 317 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: minute here, because she has a couple of other examples 318 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: that she brings up. One apparently uh tolomeos chinos um Uh. 319 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: This would have been a figure from the late first 320 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: early second centuries. CE once described a beautiful woman as 321 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: being quote with a double pupil. Okay. And in the 322 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: last episode we we talked about some legends in which 323 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: a cure or with multiple pupils that this was assumed 324 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: to be a marker of beauty. Right. So this is 325 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: interesting because it seems to suggest that this is not 326 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: just isolated within Irish literary traditions, that perhaps somewhere else 327 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: in the world there was this idea that double pupil 328 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: equals beauty. Um. And and I mean, who am I 329 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: to say it's it's not beautiful? Uh? You know, it's 330 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: not like you look at images of of of actual 331 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: double pupil situations and you're not hortified by them or anything, 332 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: no more so than if you, you know, look at 333 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: a super close up of of of any human eyeball. 334 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: Borse also mentions that ovid portrays a woman with double 335 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 1: pupils having the evil eye at one point, so uh, 336 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: tying back into the evil eye tradition. But anyway, boris 337 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 1: concludes quote to conclude this section. Both angry eyes and 338 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: eyes with multiple pupils have been connected with the concept 339 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: of the evil eye. There is no strict identity between 340 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: the phenomena. Multiple pupils can also be a sign of beauty, 341 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: sharp sight, and clair avoyance. Okay, so we're not really 342 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: converging on a unity of theme here. It's if you're 343 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: in an Irish legendar myth and you have a character 344 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: with multiple pupils in one eye, it seems they could 345 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: either be somebody who has a lot of insight, somebody 346 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: who can see very far away, somebody who can see 347 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: the future, somebody who is beautiful, or somebody who is 348 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: monstrous or can do curses. And you know, there is 349 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: this idea too that it's it's part of like the 350 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: supernatural body, that when you have some sort of a 351 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: demigod figure, it's the human body. Um, it's almost like 352 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: it mutates with the divinity within it, like the like 353 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,959 Speaker 1: the the human The normal human body cannot contain this 354 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: level of power, and therefore extra things are going to happen, 355 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: you know, extra pupils, extra fingers, that sort of thing. 356 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: And this ties directly into another example. I found, and 357 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: this one comes from Chinese traditions as well. Uh. This 358 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: is from the nine seven book Chinese Civilization and Bureaucracy, 359 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: Variations on a theme by Hungarian born French sinologists Eten 360 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: Belahs working with working from another source as well, Essay 361 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: on the Extinction of the Soul by Faun Shin, a 362 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: Chinese philosopher and writer who lived UH four fifty through five. 363 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: The subject here, as far as eyes are concerned, is 364 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 1: one of the legendary sage rulers of antiquity in China. 365 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: This would concern a time during the third millennium b c. 366 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: And so the structure of this paper seems to concern 367 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: like questions and answers. And so first we have this question. 368 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: The body of the sage is similar to the body 369 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: of ordinary men, Yet there is a difference by which 370 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: the sage is distinguished from ordinary men. From this, it 371 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: can be inferred that body and soul are different. Answer 372 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: not at all. Pure gold glitters, and unwashed gold does not. 373 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: Pure gold that glitters surely cannot be made of the 374 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: same unglittering material as out of unwashed gold. How much 375 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: less then, can the soul of a sage be lodged 376 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: in a vessel such as the ordinary man, Nor would 377 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: it be possible for the soul of an ordinary man 378 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: to dwell in the body of a sage. Therefore, fang 379 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: soon Is is depicted as having eyebrows of eight colors, 380 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: and zong Huo's eyes with double pupils, Seyon as having 381 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: the face of a dragon, and tie how the mouth 382 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: of a horse, all of which are outward bodily signs 383 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: of their exceptional nature. All the seven openings were found 384 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: in the heart of pie Con. The gall bladder of 385 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: Poe Yu was as big as a fist, which shows 386 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: that their inner organs were unusual. Thus we know that 387 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: certain parts of the bodies of sages are quite out 388 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: of the ordinary, and that sages are not only superior 389 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: to ordinary human beings, but also surpass all other creatures 390 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: in bodily form. That's just science. I I love this 391 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: passage so much. I mean, I love that it's basically 392 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: an autopsy of of supernatural sages determining how they're they're 393 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: But like you can imagine this scene in a movie. 394 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is beautiful. The gall bladder as big 395 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 1: as a fist, showing that the inner organs are unusual. 396 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,239 Speaker 1: This is great, and you know, and this is not 397 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: This is not a totally unique view of the body 398 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: of the holy person or the saint. I mean, you know, 399 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: there are tons of traditions all around the world, including 400 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: like the idea that that certain types of saints or 401 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: holy people, because of their spiritual nature, their bodies would 402 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: be found to be say, incorruptible, like they don't rot 403 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: the way most spoties do. Yeah so, but Balas add 404 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: some notes on this and points out that the legends 405 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: about the eyebrows of eight colors, uh and the eyes 406 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: with double pupils He's come from ma Han times and 407 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: are contained in a number of different works. Uh So, 408 00:22:55,040 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: yet another example of of of of exceptional eyes in 409 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: the bodies of exceptional you know, heroic mythic individuals. Now, 410 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: in the last episode, we talked a bit about human 411 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,479 Speaker 1: eye anatomy and some medical literature on polycoria, or the 412 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: condition of having multiple pupils within the same eye. But 413 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: I thought in this episode it would be a good 414 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: idea to turn to pupils of the the animal kingdom 415 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: more broadly, because uh, there's a lot we can learn 416 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: about the function of pupils by looking at the pupils 417 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: of non human animals, that's right. I mean, just consider 418 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: the vast diversity we have in the animal world. Uh, 419 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: and I mean even just dealing with the vertebrate world, 420 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: it's pretty remarkable, not even getting into compound eyes of 421 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: flies and so forth. But uh, consider humans. We have 422 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: round pupils. House cats have vertical slits, tigers have round pupils, 423 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: goats and horses horizontal. Dolphins have crescents, cuttlefish have w 424 00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:00,360 Speaker 1: shaped pupils, some frogs have heart shaped pupils, and gets 425 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: have these sort of what looked like pinholes arranged in 426 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: a vertical line. I always love a good crocodile pupil. Oh, yes, 427 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: tend to be rather vertical. Yeah, it's and it's also 428 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,360 Speaker 1: it's a window into the crocodile soul. But seeing all 429 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: this different diversity does raise some questions because you think, okay, well, 430 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 1: you know the bodies of animals are shaped by their environment. 431 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: You know that that's what evolution does. It tends to 432 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: give you the equipment that best helps you do whatever 433 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: you need to do within your ecological niche. So why 434 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: do different animals have different pupils. How how do differently 435 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: shaped or sized pupils help an animal adapt to how 436 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: it's supposed to survive in the world. Yeah. According to 437 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: Martin Banks, a vision scientists at the University of California 438 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: that cited in NPR story I, shapes of the animal 439 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: world hint at differences in our lifestyles. Land animals of 440 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: sufficient height tend to have round pupils. Thus you have 441 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: big cats that have round pupils. Meanwhile your your small 442 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: house cat cat has vertical pupils. Verticals are more the 443 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: domain it seems, of smaller ambush predators, giving them an 444 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: excellent ability at judging distances, which of course is going 445 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: to be super important when you're bouncing out of the 446 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: shadows and trying to um, you know, capture like a 447 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: small rodent or your owner's foot. Horizontal pupils, on the 448 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: other hand, are widely understood as a means of keeping 449 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: a wider swath of the surroundings in sight while you're 450 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: grazing um and you know, an expanded field of view. 451 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: So you can think of this, is that the panoramic 452 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: potential prey view of the world. Right, So I was 453 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: actually looking into this, Uh, the paper that Banks is 454 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: connected with is one that was published in in Science Advances, 455 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: and it's by Martin Banks, William Sprague, You're going small, 456 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: Jared Parnell, and Gordon Love, and it's called why do 457 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: animal ize have pupils of different shapes? And what you 458 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: say is correct? They looked in this question and they found, Yeah, 459 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: there are some very strong correlations between how an animals 460 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: survives and what shape its pupils are, at least among 461 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: land vertebrates. And so you tend to have, like you're saying, 462 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: horizontal pupils if you are a herbivore, whereas ambush predators 463 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: predators that sit around and wait for their prey, they 464 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: tend to have vertical slits, especially if they're active in 465 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 1: both daytime and nighttime. And meanwhile, active predators, predators that 466 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: hunt and chase down their prey instead of sitting and waiting, 467 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: they are more likely to have round or circular pupils. 468 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: And this is not a coincidence. The author has found 469 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: some pretty good reasons why the pupils would be allotted 470 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 1: in these ways. So first of all, you would have 471 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: to wonder how does it work this lay way, Like 472 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: why would vertical pupils be useful if you were an 473 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: ambush predator, especially as you were saying, an ambush predator 474 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: of low height, because height matters. So if you're you're 475 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: an active predator chasing down prey, you likely have round pupils, 476 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: or if you're an ambush predator that is taller, you 477 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: probably have round pupils. Vertical slits of what you're really 478 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: likely to see if you're a sit and wait, jump 479 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: out predator and you're close to the ground. So I 480 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: want to read a section from this paper, and there's 481 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: a couple of bits of terminology. To understand the quote 482 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 1: I'm about to read, it'll use the term stereopsis. Stereopsis 483 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: is depth perception that is created by comparing the difference 484 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: between what is seen by two different eyes focusing on 485 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: the same image. So we use stereopsis to uh to 486 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: judge depth when we when we look at an image 487 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: by the brain says, okay, we've got two different data 488 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: points of the eyes, and it compares them together and 489 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: gives you this three D image with depth. But then 490 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: the other term is defocus blur. This refers to the 491 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: blurry nous and objects that are either close or farther away, 492 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: closer farther away than you're focusing. So the authors of 493 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,880 Speaker 1: this paper right quote, vertically elongated pupils create a stigmatic 494 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: depth of field, such that images of vertical contours nearer 495 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: or farther than the distance to which the eyes focused 496 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: are sharp, whereas images of horizontal contours at different distances 497 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: are blurred. This is advantageous for ambush predators to use 498 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: stereopsis to estimate distances of vertical contours and defocus blur 499 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: to estimate distances of horizontal contours. So, rob, if you'll 500 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: scroll down a bit in the notes here, I attached 501 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: a picture that they put in the paper to simulate 502 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: what it looks like to a creature that's gazing out 503 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: at the world with vertical slit pupils. Uh. And it's 504 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: a very interesting So they've they've got a picture with 505 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: a toy bird sitting on the ground, presumably a foot 506 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: or two ahead of where the camera is positioned, and 507 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: then there's some objects in the foreground in and the background. 508 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: And what you'll notice about this picture is that, um, 509 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: the bird is very much in tight focus, but then 510 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: for objects around it there is there is an uneven 511 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: amount of blurry nous in the vertical and horizontal directions. 512 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: So like there's a plant stalk that's poking right up 513 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: in the foreground, and its shape is fairly in focus 514 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: when you're looking at it height wise, you know, like 515 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: the stalk is is sort of sort of blurry but 516 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: sort of in focus. But things in the horizontal direction, 517 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: like the the top of the pot that the plant 518 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: is sitting in, are very blurry. And apparently it allows 519 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: these animals to use both the the stereopsis, the comparing 520 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: the two different eyes if the animal has two front 521 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: facing eyes, and the way that images are blurred when 522 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: they're at different levels of distance from the object in 523 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: focus to judge depth very well, so you can really 524 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: nail that bird when you jump. So sorry if that 525 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: was a little complicated, but it took me a while 526 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: to understand. I was trying to figure out, like why 527 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: the vertical slits actually help with the hunting, But yeah, 528 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: I think it makes sense if you especially if you 529 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: look up the picture, you can say like, oh, okay, 530 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: this is yeah, this is for an animal that is 531 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: precisely trying to target a jump at something and you've 532 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: got one shot pulling it off. But there was another 533 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: thing noted in this paper that I thought was really interesting, 534 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: and this was actually just in the introduction, but it 535 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: was about advantages of slit shaped pupils over round ones 536 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: in general. So we were just talking about vertical pupils 537 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: for for a load of the ground ambush predators, but 538 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: slit pupils in general can be advantageous because they allow 539 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: for much greater changes in the area of the pupil 540 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: and thus greater variation in the light conditions they can 541 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: adapt to. So you've got a human pupil. Just to 542 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: constrict a round human pupil like ours, you need that 543 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: ring shaped sphincter muscle that we talked about at h 544 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: in the last episode. But to close a slit pupil 545 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: uses two muscles that close the sides of the slit together. 546 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: And as a result of these morphological differences there there 547 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: is a different amount that you can increase or or 548 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: decrease the the area of the pupil and in the 549 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: amount of light that it can pull in. So, to 550 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: read from the paper quote, the vertical slit pupils of 551 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: the domestic cat and geck undergo area changes of a 552 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty five and three hundred fold, respectively, whereas 553 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: human circular pupil changes by about fifteen fold. Species. Yeah, 554 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: species that are active in night and day need to 555 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: dilate sufficiently under dim conditions while constricting enough to prevent 556 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: dazzle in daylight. So a slit pupil provides the required 557 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: dynamic range. So this is why a slit pupil is good. 558 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: It's great for high dynamic range for an eye that 559 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,239 Speaker 1: works great in both bright daylight and in pitched arc 560 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: And you know, I can't help but think with smaller 561 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: predators as well. I mean, these are generally going to 562 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: be creatures that are not only predator but prey as well. 563 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: So it's not like they can just hold up, uh, 564 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: you know, all day. I mean, they may try to 565 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: hold up all day, but they might need to play 566 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: the survival game during daylight as well, assuming they're not 567 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: actively hunting during the day as well of course, right right, So, 568 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: so yes, a slit pupil is great for for being 569 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: highly adaptable to whatever the light situation is. But the 570 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: directional orientation of the slit depends more on your ecological 571 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: niche like you were talking about earlier. So again, yeah, 572 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: the grazing herbivores like horses, they will have horizontal slits 573 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: to help them keep a panoramic view of the environment 574 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: and watch for movement or predators approaching. But another interesting 575 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: finding of the authors here, these pupil orientations for herbivores 576 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: only work if the animal keeps the pupil parallel to 577 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: the horizon, and grazing herbivores actually spend much of their 578 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: time with their heads bent down to the ground eating grass. 579 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: So what gives there? Well, the researchers looked into this 580 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: and they found that, in fact, when horses been down 581 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: to graze, they rotate their eyes within the sockets to 582 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: keep the pupils parallel to the horizon. And Martin Banks 583 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: in that NPR article he gives a quote pointing out 584 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: that this is weird because the eyes have to rotate 585 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: in opposite directions, you know, think about the eyes on 586 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: opposite sides. Uh. And apparently they couldn't find any references 587 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: to anybody ever writing about this before, which is funny 588 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: given how much time people spend around horses. But yeah, so, 589 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: so that's what horses do when they've been down to 590 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: the grass. Their eyes swivel in the sockets to maintain 591 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: the pupil slit as parallel to the horizon. Wow, this 592 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: is another one of the and I I know we've we've 593 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: talked about this before, and you know, imagining uh, alien 594 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: life forms and so forth, but also getting intigenous ideas 595 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: of consciousness, like how much of our our understanding of 596 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: ourselves in the world seems to come down to to 597 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: how we view the world and how we focus attention, 598 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: um and uh. And you have to try and put 599 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: yourself in the mindset of of a mind that is 600 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: that that perceives the world in this manner that you know, 601 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: that that has eyes that are always focused on the 602 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: horizon in order to get this panoramic view of of 603 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,240 Speaker 1: all the potential threats that could be interfering with they're feeding. 604 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: One less funny note that was in that NPR coverage 605 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: of this paper was about depictions of dinosaurs in Jurassic 606 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: World and other movies. So you know, you've got this 607 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: some kind of giga predator dinosaur. It's just like the 608 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: ultimate what do they call it? In Jurassic World. It 609 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: was like the Killer Rex or so this is the 610 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: this is the Hannibal electro one Killamus maximus yeah, something 611 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, well, they talk about the temptation to 612 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: depict predators like this with with vertical slits for eyes, 613 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: because I think we correctly detect that as a predatory. 614 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: You look at the crocodile's eyes, it's got these creepy 615 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: vertical slits, and that makes sense because the crocodile is 616 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: an ambush predator that operates low to the ground. But 617 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: they say, actually, uh this, you know, the the Kilumus 618 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: maximus dinosaur is an active predator and it's very tall, 619 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,879 Speaker 1: so it would probably have round pupils like ours. And 620 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 1: the funny thing is, you can't even use the frog excuse, 621 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: like oftentimes that is used to excuse sort of stuck 622 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: in the mud depictions of dinosaurs and the Drassic Park 623 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: traffic Jurassic World movies. They'll say, well, you have to 624 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: remember they also used frog DNA, So the fact that 625 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: they don't have feathers that has to do with the 626 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: frog DNA. But if it was the frog DNA, and 627 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 1: perhaps they would all have heart shaped pupils depending on 628 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: the type of frogs that we used, right, Yeah, And 629 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: that brings us back to the next thing, which is, 630 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: so we were talking about the orientations of slit shaped 631 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: pupils versus round pupils in terrestrial vertebrates. But when you 632 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: start looking at the eyes, there are the pupils of 633 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: animals that live in the water. He starts. Even weird shapes, 634 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: and dolphins and cuttle fish and all kinds of things 635 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: have these strangely shaped pupils. Yeah. The cuttlefish pupil especially 636 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: is very fascinating to look at. Definitely look up a 637 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: picture of it if you're you're not picturing it right now. 638 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: It looks like this wavy W. It looks kind of like, 639 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: you know, the face on the Pringles can is that 640 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: Mr Pringles, Dr Pringles, I can't remember, Doctor Pringles man, 641 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: which is that Governor Pringle's Governor Pringles, Senator Pringles, Yes Pringles. 642 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: He has a mustache and um under under certain light conditions. 643 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,240 Speaker 1: The cuttlefish I looks like that mustache in my opinion. 644 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: But the interesting thing is that, yes it has. The 645 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,359 Speaker 1: cuttlefish I has this signature W shape in bright light, 646 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: but it's actually circular in low light. Um. According to 647 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: the W shaped pupil in cuttlefish by a math at 648 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: All published in Vision re Search in the two main 649 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: theories um were that the shape is either for camouflage, 650 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 1: so it's just it has a weird pupil because it's 651 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 1: doing all sorts of strange things with its chromatic force 652 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 1: to you know, to change its UH its appearance, and 653 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: therefore it has you know, strange things going on in 654 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: his high as well, or that it has to do 655 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: with distance calculations. It's coming down to some of the 656 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: same UH factors that that we just discussed in terms 657 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: of vertical um in horizontal pupils. But in this case, 658 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,959 Speaker 1: the researchers proposed that the W shaped pupil might aid 659 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: in balancing out the vertically uneven light field of its 660 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: natural habitat. So here's a quote from from that paper. Quote. 661 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,720 Speaker 1: While an animal's retina can deal with a wide range 662 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: of light intensities in one scene, reducing this range would 663 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: limit the need for rapid local adaptation during vertical gaze shifts. 664 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: Since cuttlefish do not have an instant three sixty field 665 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: of view, they must rely on gaze shifts to provide 666 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,240 Speaker 1: them with the complete view of the surrounding world. Okay, 667 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: so they have to move their eyes to look around them, right, 668 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: and you know, in this, we have to think about 669 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: light in the aquatic world, you know, where you know, 670 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: the the ever present darkness of the depths and then 671 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:27,320 Speaker 1: the periodic light field realm of the the the upper depth. 672 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: And if you're something like cuttlefish, you're having to navigate both. 673 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: And it kind of comes down to some of the 674 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: ideas we're discussing with with with load of the ground predators. 675 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: You know, you have to sort of be a be 676 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: adaptable to both realms, but in this case, you need 677 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: to be able to uh to simultaneously deal with the 678 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: light in the darkness by the way, coming out of 679 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: the water for a second, the gecko pupil I was 680 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: reading about essentially as a vertical pupil aiding in a 681 00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,439 Speaker 1: nocturnal ambush predators lifestyle. But it does look really cool 682 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: and they are apparently really incredible hunting eyes according to 683 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: some of the articles that I looked at um. But 684 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: then oh, another aquatic eye of note is the dolphin 685 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: pupil um and it's it's interesting that while it resembles 686 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: a horseshoe or crescent, when it's fully dilated, it constricts 687 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: down to two tiny openings uh that are sometimes referred 688 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: to as a double pupil um. And this apparently comes 689 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,240 Speaker 1: down to the fact that the the the pupil shape 690 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: with dolphins has to do with dolphins or noted for 691 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: having exceptional vision both in and out of the water. Uh, 692 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: they know, they're they're they're they're able to position their 693 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: bodies so that they're gazing out of the water and 694 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: they have great vision in that circumstance as well. But 695 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 1: I included a photograph here for you, Joe, and I 696 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 1: encourage listeners to look this up as well. Um, the 697 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,800 Speaker 1: first picture shows the horseshoe pupil, and then the second 698 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: picture shows the double pupil when everything is fully constricted. Yeah, 699 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: it does look amazing though, if you do look up 700 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: scientific diagrams of the eye. I think what these are 701 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: explaining that's normally happening is like that the the sort 702 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: of horseshoe or or you shaped people when it constricts. 703 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: What it actually constricts down to is something that looks 704 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 1: kind of like two earbuds connected by a wire and 705 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: the wire is just very narrow. Yes. Yes, now some 706 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,440 Speaker 1: of you might be wondering, Okay, you're talking about mythic 707 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,359 Speaker 1: figures with strange eyes. And now we've we've talked about 708 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,880 Speaker 1: a number of different real life organisms that have some 709 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: sort of interesting eyes going on. Uh. Is it possible 710 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: that that that the myth makers and the storytellers of 711 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: old were inspired by eyes they saw in nature? And 712 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: I didn't really find anybody talking about this, I mean 713 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: outside of Yes, if you're watching some sort of modern 714 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: show and reptile people show up and they have vertical 715 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: slits and their eyeballs, yes, obviously somebody decided let's give 716 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: them reptile eyes. Um. So again, if they're reptile people, 717 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: I mean, if they're like, I don't know, five six 718 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,720 Speaker 1: ft tall or something, the should probably have round eyes. 719 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: What if they what if they crawl around on their 720 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: bellies all the time that's how they hunt? Okay, then 721 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 1: then yeah, vertical slits, go for it. But I was thinking, Okay, 722 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: the cuttlefish has this amazing looking I um, any possibility there? Well, 723 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: I mean the common or European cuttlefish can be found 724 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: in Irish waters, and cuttle fish shells or cuttlefish bones 725 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: were used as ornaments um by the Celts. According to D. J. 726 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: Conway in the book Celtic Magic, Ireland However, it's famously 727 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: led on reptile species, so I don't think gecks would 728 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,720 Speaker 1: have had an impact on any literary motifs. And and ultimately, 729 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody was pulling up any cuttle fish 730 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,360 Speaker 1: and and checking out their their eyeballs either or you know, 731 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,479 Speaker 1: I've I found nothing to suggest that, but my mind 732 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: went there, so I thought i'd mentioned it to everybody. 733 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:54,879 Speaker 1: You know, I think this show is a safe place 734 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 1: to admit research dead ends. Sometimes we just got to 735 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, unless there's a paper out there I'm 736 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: missing and if so, as always, if there's something we've missed, 737 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: right in and let us know, we would love to 738 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 1: be corrected. Well, should we tighten the sphincter constrict the 739 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,279 Speaker 1: pupil on this one? That's right, Uh, that's what what's 740 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: what we should do. We should limit the light coming 741 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 1: in at this point. Um, But we'd love to hear 742 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: from everyone out there. If there are particular mythic figures, 743 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: literary figures, pop culture examples of of multi pupil, multi irist, 744 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: multi lobed eyes right in and let us know about them. 745 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: Send some pictures if if they exist. We would love 746 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: to hear from you. Likewise, if there are other you know, 747 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 1: we we really only spend a little bit of time 748 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 1: here with the animal world. Uh, there's so many fascinating 749 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: animal eyes out there, So if there are examples that 750 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: you're particularly fond of, right in, let us know. Uh. 751 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 1: And then of course there are other areas of this 752 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,719 Speaker 1: that we've just touched on in these two episodes that 753 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,719 Speaker 1: we could easily come back and discuss more about, like oh, 754 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,439 Speaker 1: the evil Eye as we were discussing like that could 755 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 1: be its own deep dive on the show, no doubt. 756 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 1: All right. In the meantime, if you would like to 757 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,240 Speaker 1: check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, 758 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 1: it publishes every Tuesday and Thursday, core episodes. In the 759 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,920 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed, we have listener 760 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,239 Speaker 1: mail episodes on Monday, short form Artifact or Monster Fact 761 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: episodes on Wednesday, and on Friday, we do Weird How Cinema. 762 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: That's our time to set aside most serious concerns and 763 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: just talk about a strange motion picture. Huge thanks as 764 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 1: always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If 765 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 1: you would like to get in touch with us with 766 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,880 Speaker 1: feedback on this episode or any other to suggest a 767 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: topic for the future, or just to say hello. You 768 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,319 Speaker 1: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your 769 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 1: Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind's production of 770 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,320 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 771 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,359 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're 772 00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: listening to your favorite shows. The point four four fo