WEBVTT - Bull Market Rotations From Tech-Driven Mega-Companies 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.240 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser. Every day 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.200 we're bringing you the latest news from the world's of 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.920 business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.160 in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.840 the power of Business Week reporters and editors. If you 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.280 can download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.800 dot com. You can also listen to our radio show 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.640 at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be sure 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.440 to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. Okay, 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:29.160 what do we been talking about in equity markets. We've 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:31.920 been talking about this rotation trade, rotating into some of 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:34.280 the more cyclical names, maybe even some smaller caps. Let's 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:37.199 get a sense if that's really a thing. We can 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.120 do that with Mike Reagan, senior editor and lead a 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.960 blogger for Bloomberg Markets Live Blog. He joins us on 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.159 the phone, which from what I'm just gonna say, Mike 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.080 has not become the New Wall Street Power Alley, and 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:50.200 that is New Jersey. You join us on the phone 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.239 from New Jersey. Mike, thanks so much for joining us here. 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.640 Talk to us about this rotation trade. How does it 0:00:55.760 --> 0:01:03.120 kind of characterize Yeah, here some respect for New Jersey. Yeah, 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:04.520 you know fall and I have a piece of not 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:08.160 Business week, uh this week with my colleagues, the data Hi, 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:10.880 Rick and Claire balance in about this and we talked 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:14.120 to a bunch of different fund managers to just kind of, 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.840 you know, take their temperature about what they've witnessed over 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:20.520 the past month. And it is that rotation. You know, 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:22.880 a lot of us tends to look at the stock 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.000 markets through the lenses of factors now, you know, whether 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:30.160 it be growth and value or the size factors small caps. 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.800 So this looks appears like it was a rotation from 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:38.000 growth to value, where maybe from mega tap, big name Apple, 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.800 Amazon type of stocks into small caps. I think what 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.840 it obviously is on a sort of sort of more 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:48.040 basic level, is a rotation away from the state at 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:52.320 home beneficiaries to the companies that will benefit if we 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.920 actually are ever allowed out of our houses again. Um. 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.160 So I think it's an important distinction because that's back 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.600 to rotation. Everybody has been sort of thinking that there 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:06.040 would be this rotation from growth to the value factor 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:08.840 at some point. People have been predicting it for years. 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:11.520 There seems a bet a few times when it looked 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:13.680 like it was happening, um, but then it kind of 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.799 fizzled out. Um. So this is you know, the vaccine 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.359 and the notion that life might get back to normal 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:25.919 is really the catalyst for this rotation, and it very 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:30.120 well could lead to that value out performance. Um, even 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:32.120 though I'm not I'm not sure you could classify as 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:35.160 sort of the value factor in and of itself coming 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:39.920 back into fashion rather that those beaten down bank, energy 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:42.920 and industrial stocks that were sort of left behind in 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.880 this rebound. They they're all sort of heavyweights in that 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.280 value factor. Um. So as people get more optimistic about 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:53.280 the vaccine, there's a lot of speculation and and you know, 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:55.480 who knows if it will pan out, but a lot 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.840 of speculation that finally that time for value too and 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:03.240 maybe small caps to outperform the big mega cap tech 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.480 names of the stock market. Is that hand and and 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.760 will last a while, won't just be a flash in 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.480 the pan ball. That's kind of where I wanted to go, Mike, 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.240 because you know, you think about it, just maybe just 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.680 say from a financial crisis, oh nine ten. You know 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.799 the story of the stock market has really been kind 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:21.560 of the big cap to tech, the growth names that 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.320 have really powered this market. I'm just wondering, typically, you know, 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.200 looking at it historically on past cycles, how long does 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.600 a you know, a cyclical rotation trade, how long does 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:33.800 that typically play out? Is it something fairly quick you 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:35.200 have to be nimble to get in and able to 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:36.960 get out, or there's a play out over a longer 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:40.440 period of time. Yeah, I think it depends on sort 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.480 of what kind of investor and trader you are. There 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.640 are certainly sort of many rotations that may only last 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:48.800 a week or or a month, and a lot of 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.360 times they're just corrected, say one one factor, one sector 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.440 just got way ahead of its skis and the other 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.440 one was left behind, and then there's kind of a 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:02.200 quick meaning reversion. But there are these longer term rotations. 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:04.680 And the one that I talked to Rob ar Not 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.880 of Research Affiliates, who's very into fundamental indexes, one of 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.400 the pioneers in that space. He putted out this super 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:18.800 years long UH favoring and outperformance of value after the 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.560 crash of the dot com bubble is basically from I 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:25.279 think early two thousand to the middle or late two 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:31.280 thousand and six, that value actually was outperforming growth pretty consistently. UM. 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.039 So that is the kind of big I think see 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.000 change that a lot of investors want to get in 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.080 on the ground floor of UM. It's starting to look 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.760 too many people like that could be the case this 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.320 time again. There's so many sort of head bakes in 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.880 this type of back and forth between you know what 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:52.960 characteristics investors are really going to reward UM that it's 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.159 kind of too early to say rob or not in 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.240 our story says he thinks this is that it's the 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.479 start of a multi year outperformance for value you because 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.479 the discrepancy just got so large there, and you know, 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.080 he makes that comparison of the dot com bubble. I mean, 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.800 I think obviously there's a lot of differences to point 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:12.640 out that the big mega cat tech companies in this 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.440 error are in way better shape. They're not sort of 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:19.120 type dream type of speculative stocks like we saw in 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:24.040 the dot com eraor these are obviously legit cash rich businesses. 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.760 But that doesn't mean that they can kind of, you know, 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.359 don't won't necessarily take a backseat to the value to 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:32.680 the beaten down plays for a little bit. It might 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.760 not necessarily mean, you know, Paul, that these big megacap 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.800 socks are in for for the clins or bad performance, 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.800 but the thinking is that maybe they won't be the 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.840 stars of the show for a little bit. Interesting, interesting trade. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.000 Mike Creagan, thanks so much for joining us. Mike's got 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.239 at this story out in the Bloomer Business Week magazine. 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:52.360 The bullmarket rotates away from tech drip and mega companies. 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.600 You can catch that in this week's edition of Bloomberg 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:58.000 Business Week. Can senior editor and lead a blogger for 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.599 Bloomberg Markets Live. He joined us the phone from New 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.679 Jersey and again, Mike's got that really cool story about 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.520 that rotation trade. Uh. And some folks think that this 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.320 can really have legs and it's a way to play. 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.400 It's a way to get the you know, some value 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.120 for your investment dollar. So we're starting to see that 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.240 in the in disease as we look at it really 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.080 starting in November. Looking at the shares of Boeing there 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.839 up seven percent today on the back of that news 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.400 that Ryanair, which is an Irish airline, gonna buy some 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:25.960 of those seven three seven Max jets which have been 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.600 on the ground for many months now. Julie Johnson, Aerospace 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:34.680 reporter for Bloomberg News, joins us on the phone from Chicago. Julie, 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:38.240 this seems like a big deal, an affirmation if you will, 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.760 of Boeing and its seven thirty seven Max. Oh. Yeah, 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.680 it's huge for Boeing. Um. They so the max is 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.920 U is officially ungrounded in the US. That happened last 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.520 months and Boeing has been working to you know, to 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:57.080 cranek up through the commercial machine. UM. That is this 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.880 the jetliner program. I mean, it's absolutely critical to the 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:07.040 company's finances. UM sales really sort of dropped away, um 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.480 after you know, to fatal crashes last year in this 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:14.320 global grounding, and then COVID came in this year and 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:19.200 just devastated the market. And so this is the largest 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:23.440 deal for Boeing or Airbus UM since you know, since 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:27.800 the world changed. So, Julie, it's interesting. We had the 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.840 CEOs of both Boeing and Ryanair on Bloomberg Television this morning. 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:35.040 They're interviewed Bykey Johnson and Alex Steele, and boy, the 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.200 CEO of Ryanair really went out of his way, I thought, 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.520 to really praise the seven seven Max and say how 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.440 confident they are in the jet and how it's such 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.680 a great move forward. Is Bobing gonna need more of 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.840 this type of support from the aviation industry if they 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.720 really want to get this thing going again. Yeah, well, 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:59.760 I'm absolutely m of course Leary has has vested interest 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.720 in Max I mean Ryan Airs in all seven thirty 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:08.880 seven operator and so um, so you know he needs it. 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:13.400 He needs to inspire confidence in their airplane as well. Obviously, 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.640 I'm and you know we've seen some other big customers 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.560 come out and and support Boeing in the plane over 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:23.680 the last month or so. I think what's really going 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.720 to be critical for this this jet to make it 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:31.280 back into the marketplace is for when when flights resume, 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.640 and it's going to happen as soon as next week 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:38.240 in Brazil. Um Boeing needs um desperately to have a 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:44.000 quiet few months like no, you know, no, um, no 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:49.440 big splashy um. I don't want to say accidents, but 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:55.000 you know, mistress, yes, what's these? You know that goes 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.920 to a good point. Do you expect the airlines Boeing 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.000 both uh to kind of mount some type of public 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.960 relations campaign to try to reassure the flying public that 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:07.959 this is in fact a safe aircraft. Are they just 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.960 kind of again try to let it kind of spread 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.920 word of mouth. Maybe. I think every airline is going 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.640 to do this differently. And at one point last year, 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:20.200 when you know, the Max was just absolutely dominating social 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:26.360 media and the headlines, Boeing had this huge um circus planned. Um. 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.320 They rented a jet and and you know, repainted it 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.400 in Boeing cup Uh, you know, their livery and they 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.360 were going to fly that around the world and take 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:39.440 you know, journalists up and um. And so a couple 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.320 of things happened. I mean the company really was sort 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.559 of told by the f a A and the airlines 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:51.240 to you know, to stand down and and uh and 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:55.240 let other people take the lead around bringing the plane 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:59.400 back and um. And then you know, since COVID and 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:04.240 the US election, Uh, it's it's just not the headline 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:08.920 generator it was. And why remind people, you know, of 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.680 the tragedies. Alright, So just thirty seconds. Really, what's the 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.560 timing here of how how Boeing believes it will get 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:19.880 this aircraft back into the fleet. Um. Well, I mean 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.840 the it's all happening in the next week the first delivery. 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.280 I mean, the plane is cleared to fly in the 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:29.920 US American is going to fly it at the end 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.720 of the month, but we'll see it in Brazil next week. Interesting. 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.080 All right, that's a certainly good news for Boeing. Now 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.480 the question is is there going to be UH demand 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.400 from the flying public are given the pandemic. Julie Johnson, 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:46.080 aerospace reporter for Bloomberg News, joining us on the phone 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.320 from Chicago, And it's really kind of a big issue 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.400 for the airlines is as we kind of deal with 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.640 these terrible pandemic numbers and actually the trend going the 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:58.080 wrong way, it's very difficult to convince obviously consumers to 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:01.079 get back on airplanes and travel and many parts of 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:05.480 the world that's being really curtailed. So that's more headwinds, 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.559 if you will, for the airlines and for the manufacturers 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:13.320 like Boeing. When you talk to technology investors, technology analysts, 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.240 probably the one big fear in the back of all 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:20.240 their minds is regulation. UH. This industry is getting so big, 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.920 so powerful, it has to attract regulatory risk. It's certainly 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.160 already has UH in Europe and some other markets, but 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:28.800 not in the U S. And there's concerned that that 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:31.040 may be changing. Our next guest has a great story 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.640 on this. Shelley Banjo, New York bureau chief Bloomberg News, 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.319 joins us on the phone from Brooklyn, and Shelley, you've 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.160 got a Bloomberg Business Week story here entitled going after 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.760 Big Tech is one thing global leaders agree on. What 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.680 did you find in your reporting? Yes, so, I don't 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.920 know about you, but I was a little overwhelmed with 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.720 all of the just news about anti trust and around 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.640 the world. And one thing that kind of kept weighing 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:57.680 on my mind was, you know, this thing is this 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.400 thing is a global trend. You know, like China, the 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.480 US don't agree on anything that EU. You know, there's 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:06.839 there's there's very little that the rest of the world 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.480 agrees on. And one thing that they do seem to 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:12.600 agree on is that tech companies are just too big, 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.000 too powerful, and too profitable, and that it's time to 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.800 do something about it. So, Shelly, again, I'm old enough 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.560 to remember back in some the early days of regulatory 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.760 risk as relates to technology, specifically Microsoft, and this is 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:30.800 years ago, and and the European Union really came down 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.360 on them pretty hard in terms of their operating system 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:40.400 and their software. Um. But again, the US regulatory environment apparatus, 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.480 including you know, government and Congress did not generally they 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.320 took it again a very light touch. And so is 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.480 their concern here within in Silicon value that in the 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:56.480 United States the regulatory risk may be becoming a significant risk. Yeah. 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:58.720 I mean, you can make the argument that because of 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.520 everything that went after Microsoft, you did kind of paved 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.880 way for some of these big companies like Google and 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.880 Facebook and Twitter that you know didn't exist um twenty 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.960 years ago to kind of um come come out um 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.360 and into their own And now the argument is, well, 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:18.520 can they are can new companies actually take on these big, 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.439 mega tech companies UM or had to become so concentrated 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.120 that if you're not one of the top four UM 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.520 you know companies that that you really can't. So so 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.480 I think, you know, it's it's also no surprise that 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.520 a lot of this is ramping up during the pandemic. 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.320 You know, it really really did shine a spotlight on 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.360 how important these tech companies are, how much we rely 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.120 on these tech companies UM and you see, you know, 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.480 if you kind of juxtapose that with the um uh 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.520 fifths of U S small businesses closing down during the pandemic, 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.319 and I think it really Saysted lawmakers, you know, are 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.960 you going to do something about this? What can lawmakers 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.480 really do? What a folks that are really proposing I 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:03.800 guess a heavier regulatory touch on technology and on Silicon Valley. 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:08.000 What are they proposed that seems reasonable? Yeah, you know, 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:09.960 I think that a lot of people look at what's 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.560 happened in Europe and said, you know, these folks have 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.679 been a lot of makers in Europe have been focusing 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.280 on the tech companies for years, and they don't seem 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:20.080 to be making a dent. Besides, um, you know, leving 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.520 signs on these companies that have so much money that 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.680 it doesn't really bother them, and so UM, you know, 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.080 I think it is fair to be skeptical of how 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.960 much government can really rain these companies in UM. I 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:35.280 think the things to watch are a, UM, you know, 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.680 it's it's likely that Joe by UH President elect Joe 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:42.680 Biden is going to continue this Justice Departments to against Google. 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:44.480 I don't think that's going to go away, and it's 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.920 going to really drag on for some time. UM. And 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:53.800 B is this really large landmark report UM that Representative 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.080 David Cecilian Um came out with UM that he's now 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:02.000 preparing legislation on UM to kind of give UM the 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.920 US antitrust authorities new powers, UM, you know, give them 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.720 a little bit more UM heft in what they can 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:12.280 do to go after to go after some of these companies. 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.280 And Shelly, I guess you know, some folks that have 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.160 even proposed I guess this might be going out on 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.640 the spectrum a little bit, but actually breaking up some 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.920 of these large tech companies, is that realistically on the table? 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.360 Do you believe? I think everything is on the table 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.280 at this point, but I do definitely think that it's 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.040 a spectrum, and that's probably at the far end as 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.200 the spectrum. UM. I think what would be more likely 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.520 to happen is that you kind of start to pass 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.880 legislation that makes it harder to keep these companies together, 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.720 and so then the companies then decide, you know, maybe 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.040 we should just spend something off, or maybe we should 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:49.640 sell it. Maybe it's not worth it to be in 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:53.120 this business anymore. So, Shelly, I guess, you know, listening 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.800 to the folks on the other side of the debate here, 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.160 the folks in Silicon Valley, they say the reason that 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.840 Silicon val only is what it is. And the reason 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.160 that the US is the technology leader in the world 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.880 is because of a relatively light regulatory touch. Is that 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:15.600 still finding an audience on Capitol Hill? Yeah? I think, um, 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.160 you know that's certainly the case, um, that they are 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.880 going to listen to these tech companies, UM. And they 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.520 don't want innovation to go away. They want the US 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.800 to be, you know, the leader in technology, especially when 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.240 you have a country like China coming up and really 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.400 um challenging that. UM. So I think that will you 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.240 know that that will still matter. But there's a reason 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:39.200 why all these companies are peppering in all these um, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.840 you know programs for small businesses. Every single earning is 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:44.640 called now the CEO has talked about, oh, this is 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:46.480 what we're doing for small business, this is what we're 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.840 doing for small business because um, you know, they want 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.080 to show or at least attempt to show that, you know, 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.160 we're not going to eat up all these other small businesses. 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:58.840 I mean you think about um, you know, Walmart way 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.040 back then and how they work using all these um 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.800 you know the pause we're upset about retailers closing down 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:06.920 because of Walmart, and you know the same thing is 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.800 kind of happening now is technology kind of um you know, 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.600 expanse tentacles into everything from banking to endursing to you know, 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.280 you name it. So, Shelley, about the thirty seconds here, 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.240 What are the next steps that we should be looking for, um, 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:26.120 either from the companies themselves or from Washington in terms 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:30.280 of maybe some legislation or just some rulemakings. Yeah, I 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.679 think all eyes now turned to the Justice Department and 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.520 the Attorney's General around the around the country. Who are 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:39.840 reaching these um, these losses. First its Google, you know, UM, 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.920 there is there is talk about other companies like Facebook 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.359 and others. You're seeing um, companies like Apples start to 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.720 take action around their app store. UM. You know, I 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.440 think you'll see action from these companies to try to 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:54.800 get ahead of the problem. But then you're you're also 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:58.160 going to see It's a Joe Biden presidency and that 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:00.680 UM will be interesting to watch. You know who he 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:04.520 puts in charge for those kinds of antitrust issues and um, 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:06.560 you know how much support he gives up the Justice 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:10.399 Department to go after these companies. I'll be fascinating to follow, 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.000 certainly for investors and for consumers. Given you know how 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.560 proliferate all these technologies are in our life. Shelley Banjo, 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.000 New York Bureau Chief, thanks so much for joining US 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.560 bure chief for Bloomberg News, joining us on the phone 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:26.600 from Brooklyn, and again, technology investors. They've really since, you know, 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:29.080 really from the get go. You know, over many cycles 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.960 have really benefited from um, you know, the lack of 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:35.000 US regulatory oversight terms of the big big Way. So 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:36.800 you can read Chelly story. It's featured in the new 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.520 issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine, available on newstands and 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:43.320 a Bloomberg dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:48.640 Cairol Masser on Bloomberg Radio. You are listening to Bloomberg 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.520 Business Week on Paul Sweeney sitting in for Carol Master. 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.000 I guess we're to step back and think about where 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:55.600 we are with this pandemic. On the one hand, we 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.680 have just brutal, brutal metrics in terms of new cases 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.119 and new hospitalizations, certainly going the wrong way. But on 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:05.359 the other hand, we have a lot of good news 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:09.880 on the vaccine front, with at least three vaccines now 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:12.080 very close to coming to the market. So let's get 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:13.720 a kind of lay of the land. We can do 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:18.000 that with ru Pauli LeMay, Associate director for Behavioral Research 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:21.840 for the Institute for Vaccine Safety, too. JOHNS Hopkins Bloomberg 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:23.800 School of Public Health joining us on the phone from 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.080 False Church, Virginia. And I must note that JOHNS Hopkins 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.320 Bloomberg School of Public Health is supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:34.360 founder of Bloomberg LPE Bloomberg Philanthropies and this radio operation. 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.320 Ru Poli, thanks so much for joining us here. Um 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.160 give us a sense of kind of where you think 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.639 we are really with these vaccines and how the the 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.719 distribution of these vaccines I guess on a global scale 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:51.120 really in the coming six months might look like. Thanks 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:53.399 so much for having me. I think we have gotten 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.480 some really great news in the last couple of weeks 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.320 after I think months and months of maybe not so 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:00.600 great news, and so we're really a cited that there 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.640 will be at least several candidates on the market very soon. 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.160 With regards to here in the United States, we will 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.880 likely have access to the m RNA vaccines. UM. Globally, 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:11.040 I think that will be a little bit of a 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.840 different story, and that's because Cold Chaine requirements are quite um, 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.680 are quite rigorous and will be much harder to transport 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:21.040 vaccines in some lower and middle income countries. So it's 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:24.320 interesting here. So in the US, um presumably over the 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.320 next uh really beginning this this month for some areas, 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:28.919 and then obviously in the first half of next year 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.919 kind of rolling it out. UM. One of the concerns, 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:34.440 and I'm not sure this is a global issue or 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:37.040 more specific to the US, is a lot of folks 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.239 in the US, you know, do not take vaccines. There 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.760 are not supportive of vaccines, believe that not only are 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.760 they not helpful, but they might cause other problems. How 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:47.760 are we going to deal with that in this country, 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.520 do you believe? It's a great question, and it's something 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.480 that many of us have been working on. We have 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.960 been very hopeful, um, you know, since the pandemic really 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.639 started here in the United States in March, that we 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.520 would have a vaccine product that was available. The key 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:03.800 now is to ensure that people will will take the 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:06.480 product with the idea that vaccines don't save lives, but 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.919 vaccinations safe lives. So we have been really preparing and 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.320 trying to identify barriers that people might have that would 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:16.320 lead them to perhaps not have confidence in the vaccine. 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:18.160 Some of the things that we have heard is people 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:19.919 are very worried and they feel as so that the 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:23.159 vaccines have gone through a very quick process UM and 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:25.439 have some concerns about the safety data. So we've been 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:27.840 trying to be very transparent and clear that although it 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:30.480 was an expedited process, it still went through a safety 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:34.480