1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Bushkin. 2 00:00:22,436 --> 00:00:24,756 Speaker 2: It was a late fall day and four men walked 3 00:00:24,756 --> 00:00:28,516 Speaker 2: through a field rifles in hand. The tall, dry grass 4 00:00:28,676 --> 00:00:32,036 Speaker 2: rustled as they moved. They were alert, listening for the 5 00:00:32,076 --> 00:00:35,236 Speaker 2: sounds of other bodies moving through it too, watching for 6 00:00:35,276 --> 00:00:38,596 Speaker 2: a shadow or a bend in the grass. They went 7 00:00:38,596 --> 00:00:42,076 Speaker 2: as silently as they could, ready to shoot as soon 8 00:00:42,116 --> 00:00:45,436 Speaker 2: as they locked in a target. The four men with 9 00:00:45,556 --> 00:00:50,036 Speaker 2: the Vargas brothers from Winslow, Arizona, all the Marines, and 10 00:00:50,076 --> 00:00:53,556 Speaker 2: they were out hunting. The first brother caught a deer 11 00:00:53,596 --> 00:00:57,116 Speaker 2: in his sights and shot it. He'd bagged a buck. Eventually, 12 00:00:57,396 --> 00:01:01,276 Speaker 2: the second and third brothers did too, but the fourth brother, Jay, 13 00:01:01,796 --> 00:01:05,236 Speaker 2: the youngest, couldn't seem to get one. He kept retreating 14 00:01:05,236 --> 00:01:08,996 Speaker 2: to their campsite, putting his gun down. His brother's cheer 15 00:01:09,236 --> 00:01:12,116 Speaker 2: him on, tried to keep his spirits up. This was 16 00:01:12,156 --> 00:01:16,036 Speaker 2: their yearly trip, a family tradition did, all grown up 17 00:01:16,156 --> 00:01:19,156 Speaker 2: hunting together. Now they vowed to stay out until the 18 00:01:19,236 --> 00:01:22,036 Speaker 2: last brother got his buck. They didn't want him to 19 00:01:22,076 --> 00:01:25,996 Speaker 2: miss out, but he just couldn't seem to shoot his rifle. 20 00:01:26,996 --> 00:01:29,636 Speaker 2: I can picture it, the coolness of the day, the 21 00:01:29,716 --> 00:01:33,636 Speaker 2: warmth between the brothers, the bright blue western sky and 22 00:01:33,676 --> 00:01:37,196 Speaker 2: the call of birds overhead, and like an electric current 23 00:01:37,396 --> 00:01:41,676 Speaker 2: underneath it all panic from Jay who couldn't pull the trigger, 24 00:01:42,356 --> 00:01:46,716 Speaker 2: who in fact, would never pull a trigger again. He 25 00:01:46,756 --> 00:01:49,596 Speaker 2: couldn't shoot a gun without remembering all the times he'd 26 00:01:49,596 --> 00:01:52,236 Speaker 2: done the same thing in Vietnam, and he had something 27 00:01:52,316 --> 00:01:57,356 Speaker 2: else to remember Vietnam by a Medal of Honor. I'm 28 00:01:57,396 --> 00:02:01,836 Speaker 2: Malcolm Glavell, and this is Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage. 29 00:02:01,956 --> 00:02:04,836 Speaker 2: The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in 30 00:02:04,876 --> 00:02:09,076 Speaker 2: the United States, awarded for gallantry and bravery in combat 31 00:02:09,156 --> 00:02:11,916 Speaker 2: at the risk of life, above and beyond the call 32 00:02:11,956 --> 00:02:15,916 Speaker 2: of duty. Each candidate must be approved all the way 33 00:02:15,956 --> 00:02:18,916 Speaker 2: up the chain of command, from the supervisory officer in 34 00:02:18,956 --> 00:02:22,716 Speaker 2: the field to the White House. This show is about 35 00:02:22,716 --> 00:02:26,316 Speaker 2: those heroes, what they did, what it meant, and what 36 00:02:26,356 --> 00:02:30,196 Speaker 2: their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. 37 00:02:31,316 --> 00:02:34,436 Speaker 2: The story I'm going to tell you today is brutally violent, 38 00:02:34,756 --> 00:02:37,956 Speaker 2: and there's a reason those graphic details matter. It has 39 00:02:37,996 --> 00:02:41,836 Speaker 2: to do with the aftermath of that violence. We'll look 40 00:02:41,876 --> 00:02:45,196 Speaker 2: at why it's so important to talk honestly about what 41 00:02:45,316 --> 00:02:49,236 Speaker 2: happens on the battlefield and how veterans tell their stories, 42 00:02:49,836 --> 00:02:52,636 Speaker 2: if they can even bring themselves to tell them at all. 43 00:02:53,796 --> 00:02:56,596 Speaker 2: This episode is about Jay Vargas and a story that 44 00:02:56,636 --> 00:02:59,316 Speaker 2: took him more than thirty years to tell, but once 45 00:02:59,396 --> 00:03:03,196 Speaker 2: he did, the change things not just for him, but 46 00:03:03,316 --> 00:03:09,076 Speaker 2: for hundreds of other men and women just like him. 47 00:03:20,596 --> 00:03:24,396 Speaker 2: By nineteen sixty eight, US combat forces had been fighting 48 00:03:24,436 --> 00:03:28,036 Speaker 2: the war in Vietnam for three years. That January, the 49 00:03:28,036 --> 00:03:32,156 Speaker 2: North Vietnamese military had launched a series of surprise attacks 50 00:03:32,276 --> 00:03:36,396 Speaker 2: throughout South Vietnam, a campaign known as a Tet Offensive. 51 00:03:36,996 --> 00:03:39,756 Speaker 2: It was a norse attempt to bring about a decisive 52 00:03:39,916 --> 00:03:43,356 Speaker 2: end to the war. A young Marine captain named Jay 53 00:03:43,476 --> 00:03:46,996 Speaker 2: Vargas was there. He was twenty nine, on his second 54 00:03:47,076 --> 00:03:50,316 Speaker 2: tour of Vietnam. From the outset, he could tell it 55 00:03:50,356 --> 00:03:53,036 Speaker 2: was going to be even tougher this time around here, 56 00:03:53,036 --> 00:03:55,436 Speaker 2: he is remembering back on that tour. 57 00:03:55,996 --> 00:03:59,076 Speaker 3: I got in it in late sixty seven and through 58 00:03:59,156 --> 00:04:02,436 Speaker 3: sixty eight, which was the worst time to be in Vietnam. 59 00:04:02,876 --> 00:04:07,076 Speaker 3: We knew that the North Vietnamese were coming and it 60 00:04:07,276 --> 00:04:11,996 Speaker 3: was starting to turn up ugly throughout the South Vietnam everywhere. 61 00:04:13,036 --> 00:04:16,196 Speaker 2: The Tet Offensive didn't end the war, but it changed 62 00:04:16,236 --> 00:04:19,516 Speaker 2: the way people in the US saw Vietnam. Watching the 63 00:04:19,556 --> 00:04:23,116 Speaker 2: carnage unfold on the nightly news, the American public realized 64 00:04:23,116 --> 00:04:26,356 Speaker 2: that despite what they had been told, the conflict wasn't 65 00:04:26,396 --> 00:04:30,156 Speaker 2: coming to an end. The government had lied this could 66 00:04:30,276 --> 00:04:34,556 Speaker 2: keep going for years. The North Vietnamese leadership knew that 67 00:04:34,676 --> 00:04:37,716 Speaker 2: popular opinion was souring on the war. They saw an 68 00:04:37,716 --> 00:04:42,596 Speaker 2: opportunity strike again hard, and maybe then the US would 69 00:04:42,636 --> 00:04:45,796 Speaker 2: lose heart for the war altogether. So in the early 70 00:04:45,836 --> 00:04:49,636 Speaker 2: spring of sixty eight, they planned another campaign. This one 71 00:04:49,756 --> 00:04:52,636 Speaker 2: centered on the U. S supply base of Dong Ha. 72 00:04:53,516 --> 00:04:56,116 Speaker 2: The base was set about twelve miles south of the 73 00:04:56,156 --> 00:04:59,796 Speaker 2: demilitarized zone on the Beau du Quaviete rivers, and it 74 00:04:59,836 --> 00:05:02,876 Speaker 2: supplied all the friendly forces in the northern part of 75 00:05:02,916 --> 00:05:07,876 Speaker 2: South Vietnam with ammunition, supplies and medical support. It was 76 00:05:07,916 --> 00:05:13,236 Speaker 2: strategically very important. A series of abandoned villages sat across 77 00:05:13,236 --> 00:05:16,996 Speaker 2: the river from the base, The largest one was Dido There, 78 00:05:17,236 --> 00:05:20,836 Speaker 2: the North Vietnamese military secretly built a sprawling maze of 79 00:05:20,836 --> 00:05:25,596 Speaker 2: bunkers and armed positions pointed directly at the Dongha base. 80 00:05:26,116 --> 00:05:29,796 Speaker 2: Then they quietly filled Dideaux with thousands and thousands of 81 00:05:29,876 --> 00:05:33,916 Speaker 2: North Vietnamese Army troops, all of them setting their sights 82 00:05:34,396 --> 00:05:39,556 Speaker 2: on Dongh. Their plan take the base by surprise, overwhelmed 83 00:05:39,556 --> 00:05:42,596 Speaker 2: the roughly seven hundred Marines that were stationed there and 84 00:05:42,756 --> 00:05:47,356 Speaker 2: essentially shut down US operations in that part of Vietnam. 85 00:05:47,636 --> 00:05:51,596 Speaker 2: The entire area was covered in lush vegetation, which made 86 00:05:51,596 --> 00:05:54,356 Speaker 2: it easy to hide what they were doing. The American 87 00:05:54,436 --> 00:05:58,676 Speaker 2: command had no idea what was coming. On the last 88 00:05:58,756 --> 00:06:02,596 Speaker 2: day of April nineteen sixty eight, the North Vietnamese Army 89 00:06:02,916 --> 00:06:05,836 Speaker 2: NVA for short, struck the U. S forces at Dongha. 90 00:06:06,636 --> 00:06:08,956 Speaker 2: They opened fire on a U. S. Navy river boat, 91 00:06:09,236 --> 00:06:13,676 Speaker 2: killing a sailor and wounding several others. The Lieutenant colonel 92 00:06:13,716 --> 00:06:17,116 Speaker 2: in command of the Marines, William Weiss, sent a company 93 00:06:17,516 --> 00:06:21,556 Speaker 2: around two hundred men to investigate the abandoned village of Dideaux. 94 00:06:22,356 --> 00:06:27,076 Speaker 4: Then, when we found out how extensive and the enemy 95 00:06:27,116 --> 00:06:31,596 Speaker 4: positions were, they were very well constructed bunkers, They were 96 00:06:31,716 --> 00:06:35,636 Speaker 4: very well camouflaged, mutually supporting in order to take one 97 00:06:35,676 --> 00:06:37,876 Speaker 4: bunker who had came under the fire of two or 98 00:06:37,916 --> 00:06:41,276 Speaker 4: three others, and it had obviously taken them a long 99 00:06:41,356 --> 00:06:44,076 Speaker 4: time to build them. They had been in that area 100 00:06:44,156 --> 00:06:46,596 Speaker 4: for quite a while to construct those positions. 101 00:06:47,956 --> 00:06:50,996 Speaker 2: The marines that we sent were immediately drawn into battle. 102 00:06:51,516 --> 00:06:54,516 Speaker 2: By the afternoon, a third of them had been killed 103 00:06:54,796 --> 00:06:58,356 Speaker 2: or metavacked out. Remember, there weren't that many US troops 104 00:06:58,356 --> 00:07:01,636 Speaker 2: had DONGHA to begin with, fewer than seven hundred. They 105 00:07:01,676 --> 00:07:06,396 Speaker 2: would end up facing down more than ten thousand NVA. 106 00:07:06,916 --> 00:07:10,596 Speaker 2: One of those marines stationed nearby was jav Argus. Jay 107 00:07:10,676 --> 00:07:14,076 Speaker 2: was charismatic and soft spoken, with regulation and short, dark 108 00:07:14,116 --> 00:07:17,356 Speaker 2: hair and olive skin, quick to grin. He was the 109 00:07:17,396 --> 00:07:21,516 Speaker 2: company commander of roughly one hundred and seventy men. Jay 110 00:07:21,596 --> 00:07:24,836 Speaker 2: believed that his guys, the Marines of Golf Company or 111 00:07:24,876 --> 00:07:27,556 Speaker 2: Company G, were some of the best in the service 112 00:07:28,196 --> 00:07:28,796 Speaker 2: or anywhere. 113 00:07:29,516 --> 00:07:34,076 Speaker 3: Hard tough seventeen eighteen nineteen year old marines. 114 00:07:34,116 --> 00:07:36,636 Speaker 1: I'm not ken ye I have. They were the toughest, 115 00:07:36,676 --> 00:07:38,436 Speaker 1: meanest little bastards I've ever seen. 116 00:07:39,316 --> 00:07:42,116 Speaker 2: In fact, they called the whole second Battalion of the 117 00:07:42,116 --> 00:07:46,876 Speaker 2: fourth Marines the magnificent Bastards. They were tough and they 118 00:07:46,876 --> 00:07:50,436 Speaker 2: would have to be. Lieutenant Colonel Weiss needed all of 119 00:07:50,476 --> 00:07:54,516 Speaker 2: those magnificent bastards to drive the NVA away from the base. 120 00:07:55,276 --> 00:07:58,156 Speaker 2: Jay and his marines were stationed several miles from did 121 00:07:59,116 --> 00:08:02,236 Speaker 2: Because of NVA fire, it was too dangerous to fly 122 00:08:02,316 --> 00:08:04,876 Speaker 2: the man in, so Jay's company was going to have 123 00:08:04,916 --> 00:08:09,316 Speaker 2: to get there on foot. By the time they started march, 124 00:08:09,636 --> 00:08:12,116 Speaker 2: it was dark and it took them more than five 125 00:08:12,156 --> 00:08:14,836 Speaker 2: hours to get down to the battle. They were dogged 126 00:08:14,836 --> 00:08:18,516 Speaker 2: the entire way by an onslaught of artillery and rockets. 127 00:08:18,956 --> 00:08:22,596 Speaker 2: Motor shells fell all around them, exploding into the soft soil, 128 00:08:22,836 --> 00:08:24,276 Speaker 2: sending shrapnel everywhere. 129 00:08:24,836 --> 00:08:27,676 Speaker 3: Quantafeo has took some hits, and I didn't lose anyone, 130 00:08:27,836 --> 00:08:30,076 Speaker 3: but we were all you know. I had one leg 131 00:08:30,196 --> 00:08:33,156 Speaker 3: messed up and everyone had shrappl on them. 132 00:08:33,436 --> 00:08:35,916 Speaker 2: In fact, Jay's leg was really messed up, but he 133 00:08:35,996 --> 00:08:38,476 Speaker 2: knew that if anyone realized it, he would be taken 134 00:08:38,476 --> 00:08:40,876 Speaker 2: out of the action. So he had his leg bandaged 135 00:08:40,916 --> 00:08:43,516 Speaker 2: and he changed into a clean pair of pants and 136 00:08:43,636 --> 00:08:46,476 Speaker 2: swore the medical who helped him to secrecy he wouldn't 137 00:08:46,556 --> 00:08:48,996 Speaker 2: leave his company. By the time the men made it 138 00:08:49,036 --> 00:08:52,236 Speaker 2: to base, they were exhausted, but there was no time 139 00:08:52,236 --> 00:08:55,436 Speaker 2: to sleep. They were told to continue on to the fighting. 140 00:08:56,076 --> 00:08:58,716 Speaker 3: That was the orders of the menetu land at Dideaux. 141 00:08:59,116 --> 00:09:01,276 Speaker 3: I want you to continue and push on through. 142 00:09:02,956 --> 00:09:05,916 Speaker 2: Early in the morning of May first, Jay's company got 143 00:09:05,956 --> 00:09:08,836 Speaker 2: on boats and were ferried across the river to Dideaux. 144 00:09:09,556 --> 00:09:12,676 Speaker 2: Once on land, they were seven hundred meters away from 145 00:09:12,676 --> 00:09:16,116 Speaker 2: the village. First they had to cross a rice patty, 146 00:09:16,796 --> 00:09:19,596 Speaker 2: and that patty turned out to have ENVA gunners on 147 00:09:19,716 --> 00:09:23,996 Speaker 2: three sides. Jaye and his men crept forward through thigh 148 00:09:24,076 --> 00:09:28,276 Speaker 2: high grass, rustled as they moved. The men were exhausted 149 00:09:28,516 --> 00:09:33,156 Speaker 2: but alert, their ears hyper tuned to every noise, watching 150 00:09:33,236 --> 00:09:36,036 Speaker 2: for a shadow or bend in the grass, guns in 151 00:09:36,076 --> 00:09:38,676 Speaker 2: their hands, ready to shoot. As soon as they locked 152 00:09:38,676 --> 00:09:42,276 Speaker 2: in on a target. Shots seemed to be coming at 153 00:09:42,316 --> 00:09:44,716 Speaker 2: them from every corner of the patty, And then they 154 00:09:44,716 --> 00:09:50,236 Speaker 2: came to a horrifying realization the shots were coming from 155 00:09:50,356 --> 00:09:51,716 Speaker 2: inside the patty too. 156 00:09:52,556 --> 00:09:55,156 Speaker 1: We had spider holes popping up all over the place. 157 00:09:55,236 --> 00:09:57,916 Speaker 3: You know, guys that were in the ground with bamboo 158 00:09:57,956 --> 00:09:59,956 Speaker 3: on top of them. They would jump up and just 159 00:09:59,996 --> 00:10:02,556 Speaker 3: start shooting us. And you know, I started losing guys, 160 00:10:02,596 --> 00:10:03,916 Speaker 3: but we were killing some too. 161 00:10:05,076 --> 00:10:08,116 Speaker 2: It's like a horror movie. The ground would shift and 162 00:10:08,196 --> 00:10:12,276 Speaker 2: a marine would fall dead or wounded. Jay realized they 163 00:10:12,316 --> 00:10:14,476 Speaker 2: had to knock out the machine gun nests on the 164 00:10:14,516 --> 00:10:17,796 Speaker 2: perimeter if they were going to survive. So he took 165 00:10:17,876 --> 00:10:20,276 Speaker 2: four of his men and made a run for them, 166 00:10:20,796 --> 00:10:23,436 Speaker 2: but they were fish in a barrel. One after another, 167 00:10:23,756 --> 00:10:27,276 Speaker 2: those marines were wounded until Jay was. 168 00:10:27,236 --> 00:10:30,356 Speaker 1: Alone, weighted up all by myself over there. 169 00:10:31,036 --> 00:10:34,356 Speaker 3: But I knocked out three machine heavy machine guns and 170 00:10:34,516 --> 00:10:37,036 Speaker 3: kills fourteen in the trenches that I got hold of, 171 00:10:37,436 --> 00:10:40,556 Speaker 3: and that opened us up and we came through and 172 00:10:40,596 --> 00:10:41,636 Speaker 3: continued the attack. 173 00:10:43,356 --> 00:10:45,636 Speaker 2: Let's take a second to think about Jay's tone here. 174 00:10:46,116 --> 00:10:49,516 Speaker 2: He's chuckling as he talks about this insanely stressful moment 175 00:10:49,956 --> 00:10:53,236 Speaker 2: facing down three machine gun nests on his own. It 176 00:10:53,276 --> 00:10:56,196 Speaker 2: may seem odd, but it's a pretty common reaction to 177 00:10:56,236 --> 00:11:01,476 Speaker 2: traumatic experiences. Laughter keeps the pain at arm's length, and 178 00:11:01,516 --> 00:11:05,116 Speaker 2: in that moment, at that rice patty in Vietnam, Jay 179 00:11:05,196 --> 00:11:08,036 Speaker 2: didn't allow himself to feel any fear at all. 180 00:11:08,556 --> 00:11:09,796 Speaker 1: I had two what's to do? 181 00:11:09,876 --> 00:11:13,076 Speaker 3: And I didn't have time, and for some reason, I 182 00:11:13,156 --> 00:11:14,596 Speaker 3: was pretty dog on calm. 183 00:11:15,836 --> 00:11:18,116 Speaker 2: Finally, Jaye and his men got through the rice patty 184 00:11:18,316 --> 00:11:20,996 Speaker 2: and arrived at the village of Didau. They had been 185 00:11:21,036 --> 00:11:24,956 Speaker 2: fighting for almost twenty four hours straight and it just 186 00:11:25,076 --> 00:11:28,756 Speaker 2: kept going. They began to fight through the village bunker 187 00:11:28,836 --> 00:11:31,516 Speaker 2: a bunker. For a moment, it seemed to them that 188 00:11:31,596 --> 00:11:34,276 Speaker 2: the enemy was pulling back. They might be able to 189 00:11:34,276 --> 00:11:38,116 Speaker 2: secure Dideau, maybe even get some rest at last. But 190 00:11:38,196 --> 00:11:40,836 Speaker 2: the North Vietnamese knew they had way more soldiers than 191 00:11:40,836 --> 00:11:46,396 Speaker 2: the Americans, and they began a ferocious counter attack. The 192 00:11:46,436 --> 00:11:49,956 Speaker 2: Marines were exhausted, short on ammunition, they were down a 193 00:11:49,956 --> 00:11:53,636 Speaker 2: fewer than eighty men. Lieutenant Colonel Weiss told Jay to 194 00:11:53,676 --> 00:11:58,316 Speaker 2: try and find somewhere stable and stay put. Knight was 195 00:11:58,356 --> 00:12:02,636 Speaker 2: approaching the second night in a row without sleep, and 196 00:12:02,676 --> 00:12:05,516 Speaker 2: by then Jay and his remaining men had been pushed 197 00:12:05,596 --> 00:12:09,756 Speaker 2: into a cemetery. As Jay looked around, he realized it 198 00:12:09,876 --> 00:12:13,636 Speaker 2: was full of freshly dug graves, graves of MVA men 199 00:12:13,716 --> 00:12:16,836 Speaker 2: who had been killed and buried during the previous days 200 00:12:16,836 --> 00:12:19,676 Speaker 2: of fighting. If his men were going to make it 201 00:12:19,716 --> 00:12:22,996 Speaker 2: through the night, they needed foxholes to hide in for shelter. 202 00:12:23,996 --> 00:12:26,196 Speaker 2: So Jay made a grim decision. 203 00:12:26,956 --> 00:12:29,396 Speaker 3: The only way that we could survive. And I know 204 00:12:29,516 --> 00:12:33,196 Speaker 3: this sounds cruel, but I told Everyboddy, dig up the 205 00:12:33,196 --> 00:12:36,116 Speaker 3: fresh graves, put the body on the side that becomes 206 00:12:36,156 --> 00:12:36,836 Speaker 3: your foxhul. 207 00:12:38,116 --> 00:12:41,396 Speaker 2: The young Marines climbed into the graves. They were running 208 00:12:41,516 --> 00:12:45,756 Speaker 2: dangerously low on ammunition, and soon enough the cemetery was 209 00:12:45,796 --> 00:12:50,756 Speaker 2: totally surrounded by NVA. He ordered his marines to fix 210 00:12:50,796 --> 00:12:54,356 Speaker 2: their bayonets. Once the last of the AMMA was gone. 211 00:12:54,836 --> 00:12:56,956 Speaker 2: Jay knew they would be fighting hand to hand in 212 00:12:56,996 --> 00:13:11,956 Speaker 2: the cemetery through the long night. Stories about war heroes 213 00:13:12,236 --> 00:13:15,356 Speaker 2: often start in a kind of quiet way. The young 214 00:13:15,396 --> 00:13:18,676 Speaker 2: person who wants to give back, who finds himself in 215 00:13:18,716 --> 00:13:21,796 Speaker 2: the military Sumont by surprise, and then comes into his 216 00:13:21,876 --> 00:13:25,756 Speaker 2: own That's not really the Jay Vargas story. If you 217 00:13:25,796 --> 00:13:29,396 Speaker 2: can be destined to be anything, he was destined to 218 00:13:29,396 --> 00:13:32,156 Speaker 2: be a marine. He was born in nineteen thirty eight 219 00:13:32,236 --> 00:13:34,716 Speaker 2: in Winslow, the youngest of four sons. 220 00:13:35,276 --> 00:13:37,316 Speaker 3: I am the product of an Italian mother and a 221 00:13:37,476 --> 00:13:39,676 Speaker 3: Hispanic father, immigrants of this country. 222 00:13:40,276 --> 00:13:44,516 Speaker 2: Family life revolved around his indomitable mom, Teresa, who was 223 00:13:44,596 --> 00:13:48,036 Speaker 2: something of a local institution. She owned a Western goods 224 00:13:48,036 --> 00:13:52,596 Speaker 2: store and she spoke five languages fluently, including Navajo. His 225 00:13:52,716 --> 00:13:56,356 Speaker 2: father was a newspaperman who worked for the Winslow Mail. 226 00:13:57,076 --> 00:13:59,836 Speaker 2: Jay was close to his brothers, although they were much older. 227 00:14:00,236 --> 00:14:02,396 Speaker 2: The two eldest had joined the Marines when Jay was 228 00:14:02,516 --> 00:14:06,996 Speaker 2: just a little kid, and the third brother, Joseph, followed suit. 229 00:14:07,116 --> 00:14:07,756 Speaker 1: Two of us. 230 00:14:07,796 --> 00:14:11,756 Speaker 3: Angelo and Frank served in World War Two on Ewa GiMA, Okinawa. 231 00:14:12,476 --> 00:14:14,876 Speaker 3: Joseph was just ahead of me, and he served in 232 00:14:14,956 --> 00:14:18,476 Speaker 3: Korea in the Chosan Reservoir, which is an ugly battle 233 00:14:18,716 --> 00:14:20,436 Speaker 3: in what Korea was an ugly war. 234 00:14:21,676 --> 00:14:24,716 Speaker 2: When his brothers came home to Winslow, they never spoke 235 00:14:24,756 --> 00:14:27,516 Speaker 2: about what they saw in combat. There was nothing out 236 00:14:27,516 --> 00:14:31,076 Speaker 2: of the ordinary about that. People of that era rarely 237 00:14:31,116 --> 00:14:35,236 Speaker 2: spoke about their war experiences. It was too hard, if 238 00:14:35,276 --> 00:14:39,156 Speaker 2: not impossible, to reflect back. It was as if by 239 00:14:39,196 --> 00:14:41,796 Speaker 2: not talking about it they could strip away some of 240 00:14:41,796 --> 00:14:45,396 Speaker 2: the terror. Jay flirted with the idea of becoming a 241 00:14:45,396 --> 00:14:49,356 Speaker 2: professional baseball player. In fact, he was recruited into the 242 00:14:49,396 --> 00:14:52,916 Speaker 2: miners and played Triple A after high school, but in 243 00:14:52,956 --> 00:14:55,316 Speaker 2: the back of his mind he had always imagined a 244 00:14:55,356 --> 00:14:56,516 Speaker 2: future in the service. 245 00:14:57,236 --> 00:14:59,596 Speaker 3: I knew where I was going, you know, and I 246 00:14:59,716 --> 00:15:01,916 Speaker 3: used to play marine out there with a broomstick by 247 00:15:01,956 --> 00:15:02,636 Speaker 3: the backyard. 248 00:15:03,436 --> 00:15:07,196 Speaker 2: Teresa, on the other hand, had a different idea. She 249 00:15:07,396 --> 00:15:10,636 Speaker 2: was fine with him joining the military. Both Vargas's parents 250 00:15:10,716 --> 00:15:14,236 Speaker 2: were deeply patriotic and proud of their son's decisions to serve, 251 00:15:14,996 --> 00:15:17,516 Speaker 2: but she did not want him to become a marine. 252 00:15:17,996 --> 00:15:19,916 Speaker 3: She was afraid that I was going to go into 253 00:15:19,916 --> 00:15:23,156 Speaker 3: the Marine Corps. And she says, what's the matter with 254 00:15:23,276 --> 00:15:26,556 Speaker 3: you? You know, stupid though you go into the Navy. They 255 00:15:26,556 --> 00:15:29,396 Speaker 3: sleep in white sheets, big pillows, you know, the smoke, 256 00:15:29,436 --> 00:15:32,276 Speaker 3: big cigars, and you know they sometimes stand on the 257 00:15:32,316 --> 00:15:33,916 Speaker 3: ship and it's just a great life. 258 00:15:33,916 --> 00:15:35,956 Speaker 1: And you still, please, don't go on the Marine Corps. 259 00:15:36,396 --> 00:15:39,716 Speaker 2: She made his brother's promise to dissuade Jay from the corps. 260 00:15:40,116 --> 00:15:42,436 Speaker 3: She told him he will not go on the Marine Corps. 261 00:15:42,476 --> 00:15:44,516 Speaker 3: You will talk to him and he will not go 262 00:15:44,516 --> 00:15:49,836 Speaker 3: on to the rincoaps. You understand, of course, angel and Frank, yes, Mama. 263 00:15:50,596 --> 00:15:53,396 Speaker 2: One Sunday, when the family had gathered for their big 264 00:15:53,436 --> 00:15:56,436 Speaker 2: family meal, the brothers agreed to sit down with Jay 265 00:15:56,716 --> 00:16:00,196 Speaker 2: and talk him out of the Marines, and then their 266 00:16:00,196 --> 00:16:01,076 Speaker 2: mother left the room. 267 00:16:01,796 --> 00:16:06,756 Speaker 1: The meeting lasted about thirty seconds because Angela leaned over says, Jay, 268 00:16:07,596 --> 00:16:09,436 Speaker 1: if you don't go in the Marine Corps, going to 269 00:16:09,476 --> 00:16:10,716 Speaker 1: break your frigging legs. 270 00:16:11,556 --> 00:16:14,476 Speaker 2: So Jay set off for the Marines, but only after 271 00:16:14,516 --> 00:16:17,116 Speaker 2: he had promised his mom that he would make it home. 272 00:16:18,396 --> 00:16:21,676 Speaker 2: On the night of May one, nineteen sixty eight, that 273 00:16:21,796 --> 00:16:25,276 Speaker 2: promise was seeming more and more difficult to keep. 274 00:16:25,836 --> 00:16:28,876 Speaker 3: The NVA knew that we were surrounded. They had us good, 275 00:16:29,316 --> 00:16:32,036 Speaker 3: and nobody could help me. You know, everybody was said, 276 00:16:32,076 --> 00:16:32,956 Speaker 3: they're not going to make it. 277 00:16:33,876 --> 00:16:36,516 Speaker 2: Jay and the Marines of Golf Company, hiding in those 278 00:16:36,556 --> 00:16:39,556 Speaker 2: fresh graves, knew they had to protect their hard won 279 00:16:39,596 --> 00:16:41,996 Speaker 2: perimeter at the cemetery in Dido. 280 00:16:42,596 --> 00:16:43,636 Speaker 1: We fought all night. 281 00:16:44,156 --> 00:16:46,516 Speaker 2: Jay got a call on the radio from the admiral 282 00:16:46,636 --> 00:16:49,836 Speaker 2: in charge of the flotilla of gunships on the Quavillette River. 283 00:16:50,436 --> 00:16:52,996 Speaker 2: He said he was calling in fire to back Jay up. 284 00:16:53,436 --> 00:16:55,916 Speaker 3: It was scary just listening to the rounds come in, 285 00:16:56,036 --> 00:16:58,556 Speaker 3: but it blew half the country side away. You know, 286 00:16:59,556 --> 00:17:02,116 Speaker 3: you could hear the enemy's screaming and yelling because Tho's 287 00:17:02,316 --> 00:17:03,756 Speaker 3: guns were just wiping them out. 288 00:17:04,996 --> 00:17:09,076 Speaker 2: The hours wore on, night turned to the haze of dawn, 289 00:17:09,116 --> 00:17:12,636 Speaker 2: another morning without waking up, another night without sleep, and 290 00:17:12,676 --> 00:17:17,676 Speaker 2: the Marines kept fighting, killing and killing and killing to 291 00:17:17,796 --> 00:17:18,956 Speaker 2: keep from being killed. 292 00:17:19,556 --> 00:17:21,836 Speaker 1: We still had guys penetrate our positions. 293 00:17:21,956 --> 00:17:23,796 Speaker 3: I know one guy, he must have been on some 294 00:17:23,916 --> 00:17:26,116 Speaker 3: kind of drugs, because I know I hit him at 295 00:17:26,156 --> 00:17:28,516 Speaker 3: least four times, but he just kept coming, throwing great 296 00:17:28,556 --> 00:17:30,716 Speaker 3: age around like he was delivered in the La Times. 297 00:17:31,476 --> 00:17:35,076 Speaker 2: Again, Jay sounds so casual as he's talking about this 298 00:17:35,476 --> 00:17:38,916 Speaker 2: delivering in the La Times. But the situation could not 299 00:17:39,076 --> 00:17:42,596 Speaker 2: have been more dire. Just as Jay had feared, his 300 00:17:42,796 --> 00:17:44,316 Speaker 2: men ran out of ammunition. 301 00:17:44,996 --> 00:17:49,036 Speaker 3: They were hitting these dark Hutton MBA with intrenching tools 302 00:17:49,036 --> 00:17:50,156 Speaker 3: and helmets and rocks. 303 00:17:50,196 --> 00:17:51,956 Speaker 1: Whatever we would kill them with, we did. 304 00:17:53,476 --> 00:17:57,516 Speaker 2: Finally it was daylight, and for some reason that felt 305 00:17:57,556 --> 00:18:02,396 Speaker 2: inexplicable to Jay, the enemy pulled back. The Marines climbed 306 00:18:02,436 --> 00:18:05,636 Speaker 2: out of the graves. In the quiet. Jay could finally 307 00:18:05,676 --> 00:18:07,916 Speaker 2: see exactly what they had been up against. 308 00:18:08,436 --> 00:18:10,636 Speaker 1: And I'll get the look in all of our faces. 309 00:18:10,676 --> 00:18:12,316 Speaker 1: I'm sure I was the same way. Our eyes were 310 00:18:12,316 --> 00:18:13,636 Speaker 1: as big as owls. 311 00:18:13,956 --> 00:18:17,076 Speaker 2: And he could see exactly what they had done. 312 00:18:17,596 --> 00:18:20,396 Speaker 3: There was blood smell all over the place. We had 313 00:18:20,436 --> 00:18:24,156 Speaker 3: three hundred and eighty four dead MVA around us that 314 00:18:24,196 --> 00:18:28,036 Speaker 3: we had killed. That all night, And I keep in mind, 315 00:18:28,076 --> 00:18:30,876 Speaker 3: my marines haven't slept yet, none of us have, so 316 00:18:31,036 --> 00:18:33,996 Speaker 3: this is probably forty eight hours that no one had 317 00:18:34,036 --> 00:18:35,036 Speaker 3: even closed their eyes. 318 00:18:35,156 --> 00:18:36,756 Speaker 1: It was just continual fire. 319 00:18:37,996 --> 00:18:41,876 Speaker 2: All wore as hell. That's a cliche and it's a fact. 320 00:18:42,396 --> 00:18:46,196 Speaker 2: And Vietnam was particularly brutal. We've all heard about the 321 00:18:46,236 --> 00:18:50,396 Speaker 2: atrocities there, the cruelty, but Jay Vargas always speaks of 322 00:18:50,476 --> 00:18:56,356 Speaker 2: his adversaries with deep humanity. These weren't nameless, faceless soldiers 323 00:18:56,396 --> 00:18:58,916 Speaker 2: he was fighting. He knew they were people. 324 00:18:59,396 --> 00:19:01,356 Speaker 1: They were well trained, they were smart. 325 00:19:01,476 --> 00:19:03,516 Speaker 3: You know. The troops had to search pockets every once 326 00:19:03,516 --> 00:19:05,356 Speaker 3: in a while when you knocked one down, and you'd 327 00:19:05,356 --> 00:19:08,396 Speaker 3: find a laundry ticket from Hanoi, you know, And I'm 328 00:19:08,396 --> 00:19:10,996 Speaker 3: going this guy came allway from the knowing he's got 329 00:19:10,996 --> 00:19:14,356 Speaker 3: a laundry ticket here, and he's thousands of miles from 330 00:19:14,396 --> 00:19:18,716 Speaker 3: his dog gone home. You find pictures of their wives 331 00:19:18,716 --> 00:19:20,596 Speaker 3: and children, and that gets to you. 332 00:19:21,516 --> 00:19:24,956 Speaker 2: So that morning, in that moment of quiet, when it 333 00:19:24,996 --> 00:19:28,156 Speaker 2: felt like there was a reprieve, Jay and his men 334 00:19:28,276 --> 00:19:31,516 Speaker 2: reburied the soldiers they had disinterred the night before. 335 00:19:32,276 --> 00:19:33,556 Speaker 1: I honored those warriors. 336 00:19:33,636 --> 00:19:35,676 Speaker 3: We made damn sure that we put the bodies back 337 00:19:35,716 --> 00:19:38,676 Speaker 3: in the grave and covered them. 338 00:19:38,996 --> 00:19:42,316 Speaker 2: Jay's company had started that march two days earlier with 339 00:19:42,436 --> 00:19:46,276 Speaker 2: more than one hundred and fifty men, Only around forty 340 00:19:46,436 --> 00:19:50,076 Speaker 2: were left. They had been fighting for two straight days. 341 00:19:50,876 --> 00:19:55,836 Speaker 2: They needed rest, but the enemy hadn't actually retreated. A 342 00:19:55,916 --> 00:19:59,316 Speaker 2: decisive victory was too important to the North Vietnamese cause 343 00:19:59,756 --> 00:20:03,276 Speaker 2: they were determined to take back Dideau. Jay and a 344 00:20:03,316 --> 00:20:06,036 Speaker 2: golf company met up with the remnants of three other 345 00:20:06,116 --> 00:20:09,876 Speaker 2: marine companies. They'd been resupplied with AMMA well, but it 346 00:20:09,956 --> 00:20:13,796 Speaker 2: hardly mattered at that point. The entire group of fighting 347 00:20:13,836 --> 00:20:18,676 Speaker 2: marines was around three hundred against an enemy that's still 348 00:20:18,756 --> 00:20:20,556 Speaker 2: numbered in the thousands. 349 00:20:21,276 --> 00:20:23,276 Speaker 5: We're killing every step of the way, but the NBA 350 00:20:23,356 --> 00:20:25,356 Speaker 5: are holding tight and they're making us pay for every 351 00:20:25,356 --> 00:20:26,276 Speaker 5: footed ground we took. 352 00:20:26,956 --> 00:20:29,876 Speaker 2: This is another marine who was there at Didea, Vic Taylor. 353 00:20:30,396 --> 00:20:32,636 Speaker 2: It's like a tone poem of the horrors of war. 354 00:20:33,236 --> 00:20:36,676 Speaker 5: Small arms fires are shredding everything above. Brown leaves and 355 00:20:36,756 --> 00:20:40,076 Speaker 5: twigs and branches are coming down, Banana trees getting knocked over, 356 00:20:40,196 --> 00:20:44,876 Speaker 5: Bullets snapping cracking by now they make that spat sound 357 00:20:44,876 --> 00:20:48,596 Speaker 5: of the hit meat and somebody'd yelped. Rockets and RPGs flying, 358 00:20:48,836 --> 00:20:53,316 Speaker 5: Wi Bang flash bang grenades going in and out fast 359 00:20:53,356 --> 00:20:55,756 Speaker 5: as people control them. 360 00:20:55,876 --> 00:20:58,316 Speaker 1: Twenty six and Ji cooms passing each other in the air. 361 00:20:59,036 --> 00:20:59,636 Speaker 1: There was a fight. 362 00:21:00,596 --> 00:21:03,876 Speaker 5: It was a fight, and the enemy they weren't down 363 00:21:03,876 --> 00:21:06,036 Speaker 5: and defending any more man. They were up and coming 364 00:21:06,116 --> 00:21:09,676 Speaker 5: on threes and fours and sixes and eight popping out 365 00:21:09,676 --> 00:21:13,916 Speaker 5: of the brush. All cameed up, leaves in the helmets, 366 00:21:14,476 --> 00:21:18,236 Speaker 5: weapon held out in front, a little spiked bayonet shining 367 00:21:19,516 --> 00:21:22,836 Speaker 5: coming to the trot. Give him credit. They were soldiers, 368 00:21:23,956 --> 00:21:30,436 Speaker 5: that's sure. But also at that time these beat up, bloodied, 369 00:21:31,796 --> 00:21:36,356 Speaker 5: bone tired, raggedy ass teenagers turned marine. 370 00:21:37,596 --> 00:21:44,076 Speaker 2: Beat up, bloody, bone tired, Good god. Lieutenant Colonel Bill 371 00:21:44,116 --> 00:21:46,356 Speaker 2: Weese was sitting at a command post near the fighting, 372 00:21:46,876 --> 00:21:50,716 Speaker 2: cigar grip between his teeth. He knew how fruitless their 373 00:21:50,756 --> 00:21:55,916 Speaker 2: prospects looked. But then he got the order keep pushing forward. 374 00:21:56,636 --> 00:22:00,676 Speaker 4: We didn't have anything left in us. What meager troops 375 00:22:00,716 --> 00:22:04,876 Speaker 4: we had were tired, very little sleep, they were hungry, 376 00:22:05,196 --> 00:22:08,596 Speaker 4: they were low on ammunition. When I was ordered to 377 00:22:08,676 --> 00:22:12,276 Speaker 4: continue to attack forward and retake then tell I told 378 00:22:12,356 --> 00:22:14,396 Speaker 4: him hell, no, we can't do it. We're just out 379 00:22:14,396 --> 00:22:14,756 Speaker 4: of stain. 380 00:22:15,996 --> 00:22:19,076 Speaker 2: The command had realized that if the NVA were flushed 381 00:22:19,116 --> 00:22:21,796 Speaker 2: out of the villages and into the rice paddies to 382 00:22:21,876 --> 00:22:24,396 Speaker 2: the north, they would be totally open to the US 383 00:22:24,516 --> 00:22:28,036 Speaker 2: fighter planes overhead. The more that the Marines could push 384 00:22:28,076 --> 00:22:31,316 Speaker 2: the enemy into the open, the more the planes could 385 00:22:31,316 --> 00:22:35,316 Speaker 2: mow them down. They had to keep going finish the job. 386 00:22:36,116 --> 00:22:39,836 Speaker 2: But the Marines themselves were being mowed down, and Jay's 387 00:22:39,876 --> 00:22:42,116 Speaker 2: company was right in the middle of it. 388 00:22:42,676 --> 00:22:45,876 Speaker 1: A lot of us were alavamo. The NVA was out 389 00:22:45,916 --> 00:22:46,876 Speaker 1: of ammo. You know. 390 00:22:46,876 --> 00:22:49,756 Speaker 3: We were killing each other with knives and bayonets and 391 00:22:49,796 --> 00:22:51,836 Speaker 3: everything we could possibly survive. 392 00:22:52,916 --> 00:22:56,076 Speaker 2: Jay called an airstrikes and mortar fire from the Navy 393 00:22:56,076 --> 00:22:59,596 Speaker 2: gunships to help drive the enemy back, and just at 394 00:22:59,636 --> 00:23:02,436 Speaker 2: that moment his commander found him. 395 00:23:02,796 --> 00:23:04,956 Speaker 3: Carl Weese came up and kind of fell in the 396 00:23:04,996 --> 00:23:07,556 Speaker 3: trench with me. He says, what the hell's going on? And 397 00:23:07,676 --> 00:23:10,276 Speaker 3: I said, you better get out here, because I called 398 00:23:10,396 --> 00:23:13,556 Speaker 3: artillery on myself and my marines. 399 00:23:13,196 --> 00:23:13,756 Speaker 1: And they know it. 400 00:23:13,876 --> 00:23:16,356 Speaker 3: And I told my marines, I said, hey, grab your 401 00:23:16,396 --> 00:23:21,076 Speaker 3: butts because I'm bringing it in. And the colonel turned around, 402 00:23:21,236 --> 00:23:23,516 Speaker 3: and just as he turned around, he took three shots 403 00:23:23,516 --> 00:23:27,076 Speaker 3: in the spine. My two radio operators took shots in 404 00:23:27,116 --> 00:23:30,356 Speaker 3: their head immediately. And so I was bringing an artillery 405 00:23:30,356 --> 00:23:32,476 Speaker 3: and naval gone far. So I had three radios in 406 00:23:32,556 --> 00:23:35,756 Speaker 3: my hand, and my radio operators were already dead. 407 00:23:36,756 --> 00:23:38,556 Speaker 2: It was clear that they had to get out of 408 00:23:38,596 --> 00:23:41,156 Speaker 2: there if anyone was going to survive. 409 00:23:42,036 --> 00:23:45,156 Speaker 3: So I told everyone, let's start going back, and we 410 00:23:45,236 --> 00:23:49,716 Speaker 3: went back into a defensive position. But what happened, and 411 00:23:49,876 --> 00:23:51,996 Speaker 3: some of them rings didn't make it all the way back, 412 00:23:52,076 --> 00:23:54,796 Speaker 3: and the NBA were still amongst us, just running around 413 00:23:54,796 --> 00:23:57,116 Speaker 3: because they had no AMMO. They were trying to figure 414 00:23:57,156 --> 00:23:58,996 Speaker 3: out what the hell to do, and so there were 415 00:23:59,076 --> 00:24:01,956 Speaker 3: jumping on each other. I'm dragging the colonel back an 416 00:24:02,156 --> 00:24:04,276 Speaker 3: almost I think it was seventy five yards. 417 00:24:04,316 --> 00:24:06,516 Speaker 1: I kept dragging him back, and he was bleeding like 418 00:24:06,556 --> 00:24:06,996 Speaker 1: a pig. 419 00:24:08,476 --> 00:24:12,076 Speaker 2: Remember what I said before about laughter and trauma. Here 420 00:24:12,116 --> 00:24:14,756 Speaker 2: it is again, as Jay looks death in the face. 421 00:24:15,636 --> 00:24:18,996 Speaker 3: And this is a funny part, and he loves to 422 00:24:19,036 --> 00:24:22,596 Speaker 3: tell his story. I was great with a rifle because 423 00:24:22,596 --> 00:24:24,716 Speaker 3: I grew up shooting rifles all my life, but I 424 00:24:24,716 --> 00:24:27,916 Speaker 3: couldn't handle that forty five pistol. So at that stage 425 00:24:27,956 --> 00:24:30,036 Speaker 3: I had my pistol out when I was dragging you, 426 00:24:30,556 --> 00:24:33,076 Speaker 3: and this NBA soldier came up of the river bank 427 00:24:33,196 --> 00:24:36,316 Speaker 3: and lifted his weapon to dingis and he could have 428 00:24:36,356 --> 00:24:39,796 Speaker 3: wiped us out. I fired his pistol and it hit 429 00:24:39,836 --> 00:24:42,636 Speaker 3: the ground first, bounced up and hit him in his stomach. 430 00:24:42,676 --> 00:24:45,236 Speaker 3: And I'll never forget the expression on his face like 431 00:24:45,276 --> 00:24:48,676 Speaker 3: he said. I'm sure he said in his language, how 432 00:24:48,796 --> 00:24:51,036 Speaker 3: in the shit did you do that? And he fell 433 00:24:51,116 --> 00:24:54,956 Speaker 3: back into the river. And I'm laughing now because Gerowas 434 00:24:55,236 --> 00:24:57,596 Speaker 3: still tells that story. He says, God, don't give Jay 435 00:24:57,636 --> 00:24:59,556 Speaker 3: a pistol. Give him a grenade, give a rifle, but 436 00:24:59,596 --> 00:25:00,676 Speaker 3: don't give a pistol. 437 00:25:01,836 --> 00:25:05,516 Speaker 2: He's laughing at a situation that's not just serious, but 438 00:25:05,676 --> 00:25:08,196 Speaker 2: deathly serious. But what the hell else are you. 439 00:25:08,156 --> 00:25:08,516 Speaker 5: Going to do? 440 00:25:09,396 --> 00:25:11,796 Speaker 2: How does a person make sense of an experience like this? 441 00:25:12,556 --> 00:25:16,996 Speaker 2: It's insane, it's tragic, But laughing at the absurdity is 442 00:25:17,076 --> 00:25:19,436 Speaker 2: part of how Jay makes sense of his own story. 443 00:25:20,276 --> 00:25:22,876 Speaker 2: Here's a thing. When you listen to as many veterans 444 00:25:22,916 --> 00:25:25,476 Speaker 2: telling their war stories as I have, you start to 445 00:25:25,516 --> 00:25:30,956 Speaker 2: see patterns, a casualness, a detachment, sometimes when talking about 446 00:25:30,956 --> 00:25:34,636 Speaker 2: an incredibly stressful situation, as though to spare the listener 447 00:25:34,716 --> 00:25:39,676 Speaker 2: the details, because how could we really understand? And something else. 448 00:25:40,316 --> 00:25:43,716 Speaker 2: In descriptions of battle, the enemy is often described as 449 00:25:43,756 --> 00:25:46,476 Speaker 2: a wave or a wall or a cascade a force. 450 00:25:47,196 --> 00:25:51,756 Speaker 2: There's rarely an acknowledgment of the underlying humanity there. You 451 00:25:51,836 --> 00:25:55,436 Speaker 2: almost never hear the story about the enemy soldier who's like, 452 00:25:55,956 --> 00:25:58,916 Speaker 2: how on the shit did you do that? But Jay 453 00:25:58,996 --> 00:26:02,596 Speaker 2: saw the men, the men fighting next to him, those 454 00:26:02,636 --> 00:26:05,796 Speaker 2: fearless young bastards who wouldn't give up, but also the 455 00:26:05,836 --> 00:26:09,716 Speaker 2: well trained soldiers that he was killing. I saw it all, 456 00:26:10,516 --> 00:26:13,196 Speaker 2: and it was more than anyone should have to take. 457 00:26:18,516 --> 00:26:22,316 Speaker 2: That final afternoon on the battle filled in Dideaux, Jay 458 00:26:22,516 --> 00:26:26,716 Speaker 2: ordered the surviving marines to fall back. The remaining men 459 00:26:27,076 --> 00:26:30,796 Speaker 2: had to get to safety, but he quickly realized that 460 00:26:30,916 --> 00:26:33,636 Speaker 2: seven of his marines couldn't move on their own. 461 00:26:34,196 --> 00:26:38,316 Speaker 3: I had some marines that were wounded, and I went back, 462 00:26:38,356 --> 00:26:40,036 Speaker 3: and I said, I'm going to go back from a morane. 463 00:26:40,116 --> 00:26:43,796 Speaker 3: So I went in seven times and brought back seven marines. 464 00:26:43,436 --> 00:26:47,836 Speaker 2: Out seven times. Through the men killing each other with 465 00:26:47,876 --> 00:26:52,196 Speaker 2: bayonets and knives and rocks, they were battered, bruised, and worse, 466 00:26:52,676 --> 00:26:54,956 Speaker 2: particularly a young marine named Sammy. 467 00:26:55,556 --> 00:26:55,716 Speaker 1: Well. 468 00:26:55,796 --> 00:26:58,876 Speaker 3: I was taking a colonel back. Sammy was sitting on 469 00:26:58,956 --> 00:27:01,596 Speaker 3: the tree there and his body. They had blown off 470 00:27:01,596 --> 00:27:04,436 Speaker 3: his left arm and the steel had burned him so 471 00:27:04,516 --> 00:27:06,636 Speaker 3: bad it wasn't even bleeding, but his arm was laying 472 00:27:06,636 --> 00:27:09,756 Speaker 3: over him. And I said, Sammy, I'll come back to 473 00:27:09,796 --> 00:27:12,916 Speaker 3: get you. So once I got the colonel back, I 474 00:27:12,916 --> 00:27:16,316 Speaker 3: went back for Sandy and put him on my back. 475 00:27:16,996 --> 00:27:20,596 Speaker 3: Thank god he was small. We got to moving backwards 476 00:27:20,676 --> 00:27:23,316 Speaker 3: and he turned around. He said, Skipper, I want my 477 00:27:23,436 --> 00:27:27,916 Speaker 3: friggin arm, And I said, you gotta be shitting. So 478 00:27:27,996 --> 00:27:32,156 Speaker 3: I had to turn around and go back and the NBA's. 479 00:27:33,156 --> 00:27:34,156 Speaker 1: And I got this guy. 480 00:27:34,916 --> 00:27:37,316 Speaker 3: So I bet now like I said, okay, I can't 481 00:27:37,436 --> 00:27:39,116 Speaker 3: reach your arm, and he said I can get it, 482 00:27:39,156 --> 00:27:40,516 Speaker 3: so he he reached out. 483 00:27:40,556 --> 00:27:44,476 Speaker 1: I got his arm and I got I got him back, and. 484 00:27:44,116 --> 00:27:46,196 Speaker 3: The last time I saw him the carmen we're taking 485 00:27:46,236 --> 00:27:48,076 Speaker 3: into the choppers yard, and he had his arm and 486 00:27:48,156 --> 00:27:50,596 Speaker 3: his chest right here. He just he for some reason 487 00:27:50,636 --> 00:27:52,036 Speaker 3: he thought he could put it back up. 488 00:27:53,236 --> 00:27:55,916 Speaker 2: They were all in shock. You can tell that right 489 00:27:56,596 --> 00:27:59,276 Speaker 2: the way Sammy thinks they can reattach his arm, the 490 00:27:59,276 --> 00:28:04,676 Speaker 2: way Jay is laughing even as he's horrified. Jay made 491 00:28:04,676 --> 00:28:09,716 Speaker 2: it home. Colonel Weiss made it home. Those seven men 492 00:28:09,796 --> 00:28:13,956 Speaker 2: Jay saved made it home too, but none of them 493 00:28:14,356 --> 00:28:32,236 Speaker 2: made it home the same Jay returned from the battle 494 00:28:32,356 --> 00:28:36,116 Speaker 2: at Dido with multiple wounds. A bullet had gone through 495 00:28:36,156 --> 00:28:39,156 Speaker 2: his side, and he had been hit by shrapnel, not 496 00:28:39,316 --> 00:28:42,316 Speaker 2: just that initial wound in the leg, but shell fragments 497 00:28:42,356 --> 00:28:45,276 Speaker 2: in his right arm and through his mouth. The physical 498 00:28:45,316 --> 00:28:48,836 Speaker 2: damage was serious, but it would heal. The mental toll 499 00:28:49,516 --> 00:28:52,756 Speaker 2: was something different. He didn't talk about what had happened 500 00:28:52,756 --> 00:28:55,876 Speaker 2: to him on the battlefield. He wouldn't, not even to 501 00:28:55,916 --> 00:28:59,276 Speaker 2: his brothers, even though he knew they had been through 502 00:28:59,356 --> 00:29:03,476 Speaker 2: terrible combat experiences of their own. What kind of words 503 00:29:03,516 --> 00:29:07,676 Speaker 2: could possibly sum up those three sleepless, bloody days. There 504 00:29:07,716 --> 00:29:11,516 Speaker 2: are no words. That kind of experience lives inside you 505 00:29:11,836 --> 00:29:15,516 Speaker 2: and surfaces even in the smallest moments, like a hunting 506 00:29:15,516 --> 00:29:19,036 Speaker 2: trip with your brothers, when suddenly you find you can't 507 00:29:19,076 --> 00:29:19,716 Speaker 2: shoot a deer. 508 00:29:20,596 --> 00:29:24,796 Speaker 3: My oldest brother Angelo sense that there was I couldn't 509 00:29:24,796 --> 00:29:25,356 Speaker 3: pulletrate it. 510 00:29:26,516 --> 00:29:31,356 Speaker 2: More than thirty percent of Vietnam veterans suffered from PTSD, 511 00:29:31,716 --> 00:29:35,236 Speaker 2: and recent studies have shown that for veterans, talking about 512 00:29:35,276 --> 00:29:39,676 Speaker 2: traumatic experiences, in other words, telling their war stories, is 513 00:29:39,716 --> 00:29:46,636 Speaker 2: the first line of defense against PTSD. But Jay just wouldn't. 514 00:29:46,876 --> 00:29:49,796 Speaker 2: He assumed that once you came home, you didn't talk 515 00:29:49,836 --> 00:29:52,276 Speaker 2: about it like that's the way it was supposed to be, 516 00:29:52,796 --> 00:29:55,036 Speaker 2: not even when he found out in May of nineteen 517 00:29:55,116 --> 00:29:57,916 Speaker 2: seventy that he was going to receive a medal of honor. 518 00:29:59,356 --> 00:30:03,396 Speaker 2: Jay's mom, Teresa, had passed away just a few months earlier, 519 00:30:04,236 --> 00:30:06,196 Speaker 2: and in her honor, Jay decided that he wanted to 520 00:30:06,236 --> 00:30:09,676 Speaker 2: have her name, not his name, inscribed on the back. 521 00:30:10,916 --> 00:30:16,676 Speaker 3: Mom died about I think of this about four months 522 00:30:16,676 --> 00:30:20,916 Speaker 3: before five, almost six months before the presentation. 523 00:30:21,356 --> 00:30:22,756 Speaker 1: Would have been the highlight of her life. 524 00:30:24,716 --> 00:30:27,436 Speaker 3: So I called the White House one night asking for 525 00:30:27,636 --> 00:30:30,796 Speaker 3: the Marie Liaison officer, whom I knew. I forgot that 526 00:30:30,916 --> 00:30:33,796 Speaker 3: it was like four o'clock in San Diego, but it 527 00:30:33,916 --> 00:30:38,276 Speaker 3: was seven o'clock seven pm in DC, and the phone 528 00:30:38,396 --> 00:30:41,756 Speaker 3: was ringing and ringing and ringing and ringing, and so 529 00:30:41,876 --> 00:30:44,916 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, about the fifteenth ring, so he 530 00:30:44,996 --> 00:30:48,196 Speaker 3: picks up the phone and he says, how can I 531 00:30:48,236 --> 00:30:51,556 Speaker 3: help you? And I said, my name's Jay Vargus. He says, 532 00:30:51,596 --> 00:30:53,476 Speaker 3: I know who you are. Jay, How I spent I 533 00:30:53,476 --> 00:30:56,596 Speaker 3: have a favor to ask of Carl Calfield And he says, 534 00:30:57,076 --> 00:30:58,756 Speaker 3: he said, well, what's the favorite? 535 00:30:59,516 --> 00:31:00,476 Speaker 1: I said, I like. 536 00:31:00,516 --> 00:31:02,356 Speaker 3: To have my mother's name put on the back of 537 00:31:02,396 --> 00:31:04,996 Speaker 3: my metal and he says, that's easy. 538 00:31:05,076 --> 00:31:05,916 Speaker 1: I'll take care of that. 539 00:31:06,116 --> 00:31:09,476 Speaker 3: Don't worry about Jay, He says, as your family, and 540 00:31:09,476 --> 00:31:11,076 Speaker 3: I said, yeah, my brothers are coming. 541 00:31:11,676 --> 00:31:12,156 Speaker 1: Mom's naw. 542 00:31:12,236 --> 00:31:14,276 Speaker 3: He says, oh, I'm sorry that you lost. So that's 543 00:31:14,276 --> 00:31:15,556 Speaker 3: why you want to put the name in the back 544 00:31:15,596 --> 00:31:18,516 Speaker 3: of the middle. I said, yes, sir, and he says, 545 00:31:18,596 --> 00:31:21,676 Speaker 3: I can take care of that. And I said, sir, 546 00:31:21,756 --> 00:31:23,716 Speaker 3: who the hell am I talking to? He says, this 547 00:31:24,716 --> 00:31:27,876 Speaker 3: is the President Nixon. Think Nixon. 548 00:31:28,716 --> 00:31:32,036 Speaker 6: His exercise route in the evenings was to go round 549 00:31:32,596 --> 00:31:35,116 Speaker 6: all the corridors. And later on he told me he 550 00:31:35,196 --> 00:31:37,996 Speaker 6: was on his evening walk and he says that damn 551 00:31:38,036 --> 00:31:40,836 Speaker 6: phone kept ringing and ringing. I just opened the door 552 00:31:40,836 --> 00:31:41,596 Speaker 6: and I picked it up. 553 00:31:42,596 --> 00:31:45,196 Speaker 2: There's not a lot to love about President Nixon, but 554 00:31:45,316 --> 00:31:47,156 Speaker 2: this is one of the only stories that makes him 555 00:31:47,196 --> 00:31:52,156 Speaker 2: sound kind of awesome. Anyway, Jay saw his medal as 556 00:31:52,196 --> 00:31:55,956 Speaker 2: a way to acknowledge the magnificent bastards who served alongside him. 557 00:31:56,396 --> 00:31:58,516 Speaker 2: You can still hear the catch in his voice when 558 00:31:58,556 --> 00:31:59,476 Speaker 2: he talks about them. 559 00:31:59,876 --> 00:32:01,156 Speaker 1: You know, well, I wear my medal. 560 00:32:02,356 --> 00:32:05,996 Speaker 3: I'm putting it on for everyone that served with me 561 00:32:06,036 --> 00:32:10,276 Speaker 3: in that particular battle, and especially for those that sacrificed 562 00:32:10,316 --> 00:32:12,956 Speaker 3: their lives. But if I could pound this dan thane 563 00:32:12,956 --> 00:32:14,916 Speaker 3: into powder, I would give a little bit. 564 00:32:16,556 --> 00:32:17,836 Speaker 1: To each one of my rates. 565 00:32:19,396 --> 00:32:22,516 Speaker 2: He was now famous for his actions in combat, and 566 00:32:22,556 --> 00:32:25,156 Speaker 2: if you win a medal of honor, people expect you 567 00:32:25,236 --> 00:32:29,676 Speaker 2: to talk about what happened, but they couldn't. Jay went 568 00:32:29,716 --> 00:32:32,316 Speaker 2: on to serve in the Marine Corps for almost thirty years, 569 00:32:32,916 --> 00:32:36,356 Speaker 2: never speaking about what he had seen during that three 570 00:32:36,436 --> 00:32:36,996 Speaker 2: day battle. 571 00:32:37,796 --> 00:32:41,116 Speaker 3: After it was over, I think I just wanted to 572 00:32:41,196 --> 00:32:44,916 Speaker 3: continue on with my career. Post traumatic stress kind of 573 00:32:45,036 --> 00:32:47,876 Speaker 3: leaked into my brain like it has too many of 574 00:32:47,916 --> 00:32:49,316 Speaker 3: the warriors. 575 00:32:52,076 --> 00:32:54,756 Speaker 2: Finally, Jay's brother told him that he needed to go 576 00:32:54,836 --> 00:32:57,316 Speaker 2: get help, and he did, and he took on a 577 00:32:57,356 --> 00:33:01,436 Speaker 2: new challenge helping other veterans with their trauma. He became 578 00:33:01,476 --> 00:33:05,076 Speaker 2: the secretary of the California Department of Veterans Affairs and 579 00:33:05,196 --> 00:33:09,116 Speaker 2: moved up from there to the US Department. He traveled 580 00:33:09,236 --> 00:33:12,916 Speaker 2: to hospitals speaking to veterans. He learned more and more 581 00:33:12,956 --> 00:33:16,196 Speaker 2: about what those wounded warriors were going through and what 582 00:33:16,236 --> 00:33:19,996 Speaker 2: they were lacking. He advocated for a program to support 583 00:33:19,996 --> 00:33:23,996 Speaker 2: their mental health after they had left the hospital. He 584 00:33:24,076 --> 00:33:27,436 Speaker 2: did incredible work in suicide prevention for veterans. 585 00:33:28,476 --> 00:33:32,516 Speaker 3: This post traumatic stress is a toughie. It's a silent killer. 586 00:33:32,836 --> 00:33:38,556 Speaker 3: So I'm traveling countryside and visiting commands wounded warriors, women 587 00:33:38,876 --> 00:33:42,436 Speaker 3: veterans about PTSD of suicide. 588 00:33:42,716 --> 00:33:46,956 Speaker 2: As he did on the battlefield. He fought tirelessly to 589 00:33:46,996 --> 00:33:51,276 Speaker 2: save their lives. Jay Vargus was in his mid sixties 590 00:33:51,756 --> 00:33:54,236 Speaker 2: before he could finally tell his own story. 591 00:33:54,436 --> 00:33:56,916 Speaker 3: I'm gonna be honest with you. It took me thirty 592 00:33:56,996 --> 00:33:59,556 Speaker 3: six years before I could sit here and talk about this. 593 00:34:00,316 --> 00:34:02,596 Speaker 3: I tried to do it with the mail of Honor Society. 594 00:34:02,796 --> 00:34:02,996 Speaker 1: You know. 595 00:34:03,076 --> 00:34:06,236 Speaker 3: We couldn't get through the first taping, couldn't get through 596 00:34:06,236 --> 00:34:06,996 Speaker 3: the second tape. 597 00:34:07,796 --> 00:34:11,076 Speaker 2: It took j three trial to get it down. That's 598 00:34:11,196 --> 00:34:14,676 Speaker 2: a lot of what you've been listening to today. When 599 00:34:14,716 --> 00:34:17,796 Speaker 2: he decided to tell it, he told the whole thing, 600 00:34:18,556 --> 00:34:21,916 Speaker 2: not just the glory, but the trauma too, Not about 601 00:34:21,996 --> 00:34:26,316 Speaker 2: killing some anonymous enemy, but about honorable men who carried 602 00:34:26,356 --> 00:34:29,956 Speaker 2: pictures of their mothers in their pockets and laundry slips 603 00:34:29,996 --> 00:34:34,236 Speaker 2: for shirts they'd never wear. By telling his story this way, 604 00:34:34,716 --> 00:34:38,636 Speaker 2: Jay Argus shows what soldiers give up during war, what 605 00:34:38,716 --> 00:34:42,476 Speaker 2: they have to sacrifice of themselves to get through a battle. 606 00:34:42,516 --> 00:34:46,436 Speaker 2: Like Dido, they go to fight and they see terrible things. 607 00:34:47,316 --> 00:34:51,916 Speaker 2: Those things stay with them. Nobody should have to live 608 00:34:51,956 --> 00:34:58,196 Speaker 2: with those kinds of horrors, but they do. Jay dedicated 609 00:34:58,276 --> 00:35:03,316 Speaker 2: himself to helping veterans negotiate their stories to live past them. 610 00:35:03,596 --> 00:35:06,236 Speaker 2: And when he told his story, he did it in 611 00:35:06,316 --> 00:35:08,476 Speaker 2: such a way that the rest of us could see 612 00:35:08,476 --> 00:35:12,796 Speaker 2: the trauma first hand, and from three nights of unbelievable 613 00:35:12,836 --> 00:35:16,716 Speaker 2: carnage and pain, he distills a very simple. 614 00:35:16,476 --> 00:35:20,836 Speaker 1: Lesson life is too damn precious just to throw away. 615 00:35:22,276 --> 00:35:26,716 Speaker 2: That's the case on the battlefield and when you come 616 00:35:26,796 --> 00:35:40,956 Speaker 2: home from it too. Medal of Honor Stories of Courage 617 00:35:41,316 --> 00:35:44,476 Speaker 2: is written by Meredith Rollins and produced by Meredith Rollins, 618 00:35:44,676 --> 00:35:48,876 Speaker 2: Constanza Gallardo, and Izzy Carter. The show is edited by 619 00:35:48,876 --> 00:35:53,196 Speaker 2: Ben Daph Haffrey, Sound design and additional music by Jake Gorski, 620 00:35:53,716 --> 00:35:57,996 Speaker 2: recording engineering by Nita Lawrence, fact checking by Arthur Gombert's 621 00:35:58,476 --> 00:36:02,796 Speaker 2: original music by Eric Phillips. Special thanks to the Congressional 622 00:36:02,796 --> 00:36:07,836 Speaker 2: Medal of Honor Society, the American Legion, US National Archives, 623 00:36:08,236 --> 00:36:11,196 Speaker 2: and the Reagan Felm. If you want to learn more 624 00:36:11,196 --> 00:36:14,316 Speaker 2: about our Medal of Honor recipients, follow us on Instagram 625 00:36:14,356 --> 00:36:17,596 Speaker 2: and Twitter. We'll be sharing photos and videos of the 626 00:36:17,636 --> 00:36:20,756 Speaker 2: heroes featured on the show. We'd also love to hear 627 00:36:20,796 --> 00:36:23,556 Speaker 2: from you dm us with a story about a courageous 628 00:36:23,636 --> 00:36:26,516 Speaker 2: veteran in your life. If you don't know a veteran, 629 00:36:26,876 --> 00:36:29,316 Speaker 2: we would love to hear a story of how courage 630 00:36:29,596 --> 00:36:33,356 Speaker 2: was contagious in your own life. You can find us 631 00:36:33,596 --> 00:36:38,156 Speaker 2: at Pushkinbods. I'm your host, Malcolm Gabo