Speaker 1: Hi, Denise. I was thinking about the first time we
Speaker 1: ever met, and I think I'm I think it was
Speaker 1: when I had the talk show in La but it
Speaker 1: may have even been before before that. Tell me what
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: I think we had dinner with Rina and a couple
Speaker 2: other people and then we met.
Speaker 3: I don't you wait?
Speaker 1: Was it maybe at the Soho house We're not, I
Speaker 1: don't remember, I.
Speaker 2: Don't, I don't know, but you were renting a place
Speaker 2: in La I think for the summer.
Speaker 1: That was around the same time, that was around the
Speaker 1: talk show, and then you.
Speaker 3: It was right before the talk show.
Speaker 1: Okay, and you came on. Jill Fritzo is both of
Speaker 1: our publicists, so I'm now thinking she must have been there,
Speaker 1: been back there with you, and I can't what would
Speaker 1: have made you come on except for like a favor,
Speaker 1: because it was probably a favorite of the show. It
Speaker 1: was a test show, so some people like Justin Bieber
Speaker 1: were doing it. It was crazy, guess because they were
Speaker 1: doing favors to Ellen and.
Speaker 3: I wanted to go on. It wasn't just for a favorite.
Speaker 1: Well, I remember. I think it probably was like I
Speaker 1: don't know if it was like seven or you were
Speaker 1: You seemed guarded then and having met you since then
Speaker 1: and before then, I've now been seven.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going through a bad divorce. I remember,
Speaker 2: And I'll refresh Jill's memory. Jill's here, Yeah, Jill's here.
Speaker 3: Something happened.
Speaker 2: I got a phone call in the dressing room, literally
Speaker 2: right before I went out on your show.
Speaker 1: About your situation.
Speaker 3: Yes, and I had a heart attack.
Speaker 1: Okay, because I have to tell you. You agreed to
Speaker 1: do it, and I had met you before and you
Speaker 1: seemed stunned.
Speaker 3: It was funny something happened.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Which you can't say what happened all these years.
Speaker 3: Later, you know what?
Speaker 1: Now I can, Okay, I just remember. It took a
Speaker 1: real experience. I remember you were like, I was like,
Speaker 1: does she know she's coming here? Like it was as
Speaker 1: if someone put.
Speaker 3: You know mark Berg? Yes, okay, I used.
Speaker 1: To I was held on everybody. Mark Berg was a
Speaker 1: manager of Charlie Sheen and a producer on Two and
Speaker 1: a half Men, and years before that he used to
Speaker 1: be I was his assistant, and he worked under Chris Blackwell,
Speaker 1: if you guys know, he founded the Marleys and Island Records.
Speaker 1: So I worked for mark Berg and he had to
Speaker 1: let me go because his wife didn't want me working
Speaker 1: for him. I found that out later, but I worked
Speaker 1: for Mark Burg and years later I ran into him
Speaker 1: and he told me he managed Charlie and he did
Speaker 1: the Saw movies and produced Two and a half Men,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I didn't know you were
Speaker 1: so big time.
Speaker 2: So literally, right before I walked out, I got a
Speaker 2: call that someone close to Charlie's circle was going to
Speaker 2: hold a press conference and disclose his health situation. He's
Speaker 2: been open to public right now about HIV, but at
Speaker 2: the time he wasn't and he was doing anger management,
Speaker 2: so it would literally I found I got that called
Speaker 2: thirty seconds before I walked out on stage.
Speaker 1: How crazy is that? Like in life, you have an
Speaker 1: opinion of other people or as an experience, and it's
Speaker 1: all these years later. I mean, I didn't have a
Speaker 1: negative opinion, but I thought you were guarded. You don't
Speaker 1: know what's going on.
Speaker 3: It's behind closed doors.
Speaker 1: Even in the life, if you even if you like
Speaker 1: someone takes your parking spot and is a bitch about it,
Speaker 1: you don't know what happened.
Speaker 3: That happened. I know that's what happens.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, because because I called Denise to get
Speaker 1: everyone to where we are today. I've there are certain
Speaker 1: people I just want to talk to. I feel like,
Speaker 1: does anyone really know that person fully? And you're one
Speaker 1: of these people to me that I feel like I've
Speaker 1: met you and superficially we know each other for so
Speaker 1: many years, but I don't really know you. And I've
Speaker 1: always liked you, like you. My energy with you is
Speaker 1: that i've liked you. So I don't remember if that
Speaker 1: was six months or a year ago, but I called
Speaker 1: you and I was like, would you ever do a
Speaker 1: podcast together? Would you ever do something together? And we
Speaker 1: were dabbling and talking about just experiences on reality TV
Speaker 1: and being divorced and crazy crazy divorces in life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then now it's and here we are and here
Speaker 1: we are because you came to that dinner in La
Speaker 1: and I ran into you and I mentioned it again,
Speaker 1: and here we are. So thank you for being here,
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 3: For having me.
Speaker 2: You're here, and I'm so glad we cleared up many
Speaker 2: many years ago because.
Speaker 1: I had a perception not that not that you weren't nice,
Speaker 1: but you seemed none why not why.
Speaker 3: I was there?
Speaker 2: But I was having a heart attack inside and I
Speaker 2: couldn't even think because it was not a good Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, no, I don't mean it in a bad way.
Speaker 1: I just mean sometimes someone books an interview and then
Speaker 1: might feel like they don't want to share, And I
Speaker 1: just thought, oh, interesting. So I said it to Jill
Speaker 1: and she's like, She'll said to me, she's an open book.
Speaker 1: I'm like she is, so anyway, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Here's a little distracted. Yeah, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you've had a really outrageous, incredible life. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think about you coming from Illinois, midwestern girl. Yes,
Speaker 1: I remember that your dad moved into your house. Is
Speaker 1: it in Calabascia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, after my mom passed away. My parents were together
Speaker 2: since my mom was seventeen and my dad was twenty
Speaker 2: well actually she was sixteen when they got together, but
Speaker 2: since she was a teenage young and they stayed together
Speaker 2: until you know, my mom passed and she was very young,
Speaker 2: and my dad was going to come for two weeks
Speaker 2: and was with us for five years, which was such
Speaker 2: a blessing that my daughters got to have such a wonderful,
Speaker 2: you know, parental male parental figure in their life, which
Speaker 2: they needed at that time.
Speaker 3: Especially, So I am so blessed.
Speaker 2: That he was able to and did stay, you know,
Speaker 2: for as long as he did. And you know, I
Speaker 2: had such a huge impact on my daughter's early years
Speaker 2: of growing up.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. And I think about you growing up in
Speaker 1: a Midwestern environment. Did you have a quote unquote normal childhood?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, I mean we were actually a
Speaker 2: Nielsen family and a lot of people don't know this.
Speaker 2: Born in after whatever nineteen eighty or something. Nielsen were
Speaker 2: these boxes that they would put back in the day
Speaker 2: on family's television to record what a typical family. We
Speaker 2: were a family, four, middle to lower class family, and
Speaker 2: they wanted to see what we were watching. And I'll
Speaker 2: never forget when the people showed up and gave it
Speaker 2: to my parents.
Speaker 1: So funny that happen they show up at the door.
Speaker 3: I don't you know what.
Speaker 2: I have to ask my dad how that happened, because
Speaker 2: that's now that I think, like, that's weird, Like why
Speaker 2: would you let these strangers into our house and put
Speaker 2: a box on our.
Speaker 1: Right in twenty twenty three, that would be like, what
Speaker 1: are you recording?
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, we were a typical all American family
Speaker 2: of four, went to church every Sunday, had dinner together
Speaker 2: every night at six pm.
Speaker 3: So that was our family.
Speaker 1: That would be a great sitcom or a really show
Speaker 1: called and the name is actually the Nielsen's exactly. It's
Speaker 1: a good idea for a show, to.
Speaker 3: Be honest, Well, you should produce that.
Speaker 1: I love to. I would love to. What were you
Speaker 1: guys watching? What does the name?
Speaker 2: Okay? So back then, I remember my sister and I
Speaker 2: we were allowed to stay up late on Friday night
Speaker 2: nights to watch Dallas, Okay? And I actually told my
Speaker 2: my husband who's here too, that my dad every Friday
Speaker 2: night would make us some mint chocolate chip milkshake.
Speaker 3: Every we got the milkshake every Friday night.
Speaker 2: Uh. And so we would watch Dallas on Fridays. And
Speaker 2: then I was the Facts of Life girl. I loved
Speaker 2: the TV show Facts of Life my favorite growing up.
Speaker 3: Same.
Speaker 1: So, how did you get into acting? Were your parents
Speaker 1: for it? Was it a great opportunity to sort of
Speaker 1: get out of the lower middle class? No?
Speaker 3: Actually, my dad saw what was that show? A Battle
Speaker 3: of the Network stars?
Speaker 2: Living in Illinois blizzards and it was January and my
Speaker 2: father told us that he when I was older, that
Speaker 2: he was he couldn't believe that the celebrities were wearing
Speaker 2: shorts and a T shirt in January and here we're freezing.
Speaker 2: And my dad worked for Illinois Bell, the phone company,
Speaker 2: so we had to climb the telephone polls.
Speaker 3: When it was winter.
Speaker 2: And so he up and moved our family to California
Speaker 2: with no job.
Speaker 3: Your job. He had a friend that.
Speaker 2: Did leave the phone company and form his own payphone company,
Speaker 2: and my dad eventually worked for him, and my dad
Speaker 2: would drive every single day from San Diego to Los
Speaker 2: Angeles collecting the payphones.
Speaker 3: He had a payphone route. Wow, this is yeah.
Speaker 2: When I was fifteen, Yeah, after my freshman year in
Speaker 2: high school, we moved.
Speaker 1: So you really did have like a very rock well.
Speaker 2: You know, we had rock wells, your rock Well scol
Speaker 2: the sculptures in the book.
Speaker 3: That was my mom's favorite thing.
Speaker 2: That'sious you said that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, literally you're the in the.
Speaker 3: Rock well exactly. That was my childhood.
Speaker 1: Okay, So then.
Speaker 2: When I was fifteen, my mom submitted me for do
Speaker 2: you remember the clothing company A Spree? Yeah, oh my god, yes,
Speaker 2: I was in a Spree model search and then I
Speaker 2: made it to the finals. I went to to like
Speaker 2: competition things. And then I came in second and an
Speaker 2: agent from Los Angeles signed me to model.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: But I always wanted to act, Like I took drama
Speaker 2: in school and that was something. But I never thought
Speaker 2: living in Illinois that was ever a possibility.
Speaker 1: Right, But you did dream about it as a kid.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I always wanted to act, even when I
Speaker 2: was younger, but I thought that would never happen because
Speaker 2: of where I was living, right, California seemed so far right. So,
Speaker 2: and then when I was I modeled, and then then
Speaker 2: I just got an agent. I was twenty an acting
Speaker 2: agent and I played fifteen years old, so I was
Speaker 2: in the children division of the theatrical agency was Harry
Speaker 2: Gold at the time, and that was Tracy Gold's father
Speaker 2: had an agency then. Because I played so young, I
Speaker 2: didn't need to have a huge resume, so I would
Speaker 2: just do small parts and I thought, oh, this is easy.
Speaker 3: I booked my first two jobs.
Speaker 1: So I was a PA Unsaved by the Bell. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you know that. No, I was a
Speaker 1: PA on Save by the Bell for the Beach episode
Speaker 1: I did buy no. So mine plays tricks on you
Speaker 1: because years later I'm in my late twenties and thirties,
Speaker 1: and I'm seeing you and your Denise Richards who's more
Speaker 1: famous then, and you're in more movies, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: wait a second, I feel like I know her. I
Speaker 1: think she was on Save by the Bell, but like
Speaker 1: you weren't Denise Richards on Saved by the Bell because
Speaker 1: you were just started like two lies, right, But I
Speaker 1: remembered you. You have a very striking look, and I
Speaker 1: was like, and Tory Spelling was Unsaved by the Bell
Speaker 1: and Leah Rihmany but Lea Rimany wasn't yet exactly. But
Speaker 1: I was a PA, and I thought you guys were
Speaker 1: all like rich and famous actresses because you were on
Speaker 1: this thing that I was doing. Funny, So later I put,
Speaker 1: you know how you think thause pieces come together in
Speaker 1: your mind? Later I'm like, I think Denise Richards from
Speaker 1: all these movies was on Save by the Bell when
Speaker 1: I was there, but I never connected it. I thought, like, listen,
Speaker 1: I was a young girl who had just not even
Speaker 1: walked with the class. I wanted to get to LA
Speaker 1: and just like work, and I was a PA, and
Speaker 1: I thought you guys were also intimidating because you were
Speaker 1: real actresses, and I was just a pa. I could
Speaker 1: have been friends with you all that time ago.
Speaker 2: We could have been Frances. I was terrified to do
Speaker 2: that show. I had to pretend like I was drowning.
Speaker 2: I was so I remember yeah and yes and I yes, yes,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, all right, So that was saved by
Speaker 2: the bell.
Speaker 1: So sorry so that I didn't realize that. So that
Speaker 1: was your first That was my free real gig. Okay,
Speaker 1: So then were you a good actress at that time?
Speaker 2: No? I couldn't say a word. I was so nervous.
Speaker 2: I was so nervous and so naive.
Speaker 1: Well, you were also twenties. You're still living with your parents.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: I moved out when I was eighteen.
Speaker 1: So you moved out when you were eighteen? What area?
Speaker 2: Uh? I was Wilcox and Hollywood Boulevard. I remember my
Speaker 2: friend that modeled too. When I was modeling, I saw
Speaker 2: her apartment. I had pink carpet, so I wanted her
Speaker 2: apartment when she moved out. I'm not joking. This was
Speaker 2: a studio. Yes, And my father came about three weeks
Speaker 2: later and saw where I was living, and through my
Speaker 2: shit and a pickup truck and he goes you're moving.
Speaker 1: Out of here and you moved to another place.
Speaker 2: How because I got some of the units. I'll never
Speaker 2: forget this. I moved to a place on Bluff Side
Speaker 2: Drive in Studio City where they had these special units
Speaker 2: for people that didn't make a lot of money. I
Speaker 2: forgot what it was called back then. So I qualified
Speaker 2: for that.
Speaker 1: What was your rent? My rent I had? I had
Speaker 1: six hundred. I was living in an apartment for six
Speaker 1: hundred dollars.
Speaker 3: My pink carpet was six hundred.
Speaker 1: That was six hundred.
Speaker 2: So I got a deal with the place in Studio
Speaker 2: City that had like secure gates. You had to go
Speaker 2: through a gate with you know, security there, and.
Speaker 1: So you were responsible for your own finances.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I paid. I always paid my everything.
Speaker 1: You had jobs in high school too? Or no?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had so many jobs in high school. My
Speaker 2: first job was Hoganda's ice cream, which was my favorite. Well,
Speaker 2: I like, uh well back then it was mint chocolate
Speaker 2: chip and I love that it was like vanilla.
Speaker 1: Well, they also had slab chocolate, which I liked. Versus
Speaker 1: Baskeroom Robins, it was like the little slivers.
Speaker 3: I worked at Robins to see it's not the same.
Speaker 3: I went back to Hogandas.
Speaker 2: I understand so all of us girls in high school
Speaker 2: worked at Hogandas, and we were terrible. We'd have the
Speaker 2: boys block the camera and kind of give out free
Speaker 2: ice cream to some of.
Speaker 3: The boys at school. So nice, nice, you know.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I worked. Uh, I had a lot of
Speaker 2: jobs in high school. I started working when I was
Speaker 2: really young.
Speaker 1: Did you have bad experiences with the casting couch or people.
Speaker 1: I once met with Aaron Spelling's main casting person, Tony something,
Speaker 1: and he told me that I had to lose like
Speaker 1: eight pounds and he just I remember feeling like a
Speaker 1: real loser because I was trying to act. And I
Speaker 1: remember feeling like having seen the Pink concert last night
Speaker 1: and listening to her lyrics about how she doesn't look
Speaker 1: like Britney Spears and when she was trying to be
Speaker 1: a pop star, how there's like now everybody can fit
Speaker 1: into some space. Back then it was really you had
Speaker 1: to fit in the space. Yeah. So have you what
Speaker 1: kind of experiences did you have with that?
Speaker 2: Well, I've had many, I you know, it started with modeling.
Speaker 2: I went to Japan the day after I graduated high school.
Speaker 2: I was there for at that time for two months
Speaker 2: and it's ironic.
Speaker 3: I remember going there and they wanted me to model
Speaker 3: bras and underwear.
Speaker 2: This was before I had my boobs done, so I
Speaker 2: was very small and I was but I called my
Speaker 2: dad crying and my dad was going to come out
Speaker 2: and get me. So I told the agency what's ironic
Speaker 2: is then I do wild things and Playboy later. But
Speaker 2: that's at the time though I was felt very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: They were gonna rip up my contract and send me home,
Speaker 2: but they ended up keeping me.
Speaker 1: And if you didn't wear lingerie, yeah okay, but.
Speaker 2: They kept me and I still worked even though I
Speaker 2: didn't do lingerie, and but that it was very awkward
Speaker 2: going to auditions there at the time because they had
Speaker 2: us put a bathing suit on, so even if you
Speaker 2: were modeling a hat, they was just like.
Speaker 3: And there's no disrespect there.
Speaker 2: It was just at the time with modeling at that time,
Speaker 2: and it was just eye opening with working and getting
Speaker 2: into the business. But I said no to so many
Speaker 2: things when I started working, and then I worked in
Speaker 2: New York. I had some similar experiences there, but I
Speaker 2: think it was more.
Speaker 1: About just making you feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yeah, like.
Speaker 1: You just feel awkward and you feel like you're doing
Speaker 1: something wrong. You're not going to get the part.
Speaker 2: But well, the agency that I was with in New York,
Speaker 2: you were expected to go to parties. I would not go.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to. I didn't want I just wanted
Speaker 2: to work. I didn't want to, you know, I was
Speaker 2: very naive about the business. And it was a lot
Speaker 2: of pushback with the agency with that, and so it
Speaker 2: made it a little difficult.
Speaker 3: But I worked. So that's why they kept.
Speaker 1: They wanted you to go to parties. Did you feel
Speaker 1: pressured to drink or do drugs?
Speaker 3: I didn't go to the parties. I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: I was the type that would go to bed at
Speaker 2: nine or ten o'clock at night.
Speaker 3: I got up early.
Speaker 2: Even then when I started acting, I didn't go to
Speaker 2: any I wasn't a party girl. I wanted to really
Speaker 2: study my two lines over and over and over again.
Speaker 2: I went to acting class a few nights a week,
Speaker 2: so I really took my job very serious and wanted
Speaker 2: to do good. I wasn't in that party scene.
Speaker 1: As a mother. Do you think that is from your
Speaker 1: parents or do you think that was just inside of
Speaker 1: you to have that discipline. I'm very much I take
Speaker 1: things very seriously and if I do it, I'd do
Speaker 1: it right, and that in my case, it definitely wasn't
Speaker 1: my parenting, except that my father was a Hall of
Speaker 1: fame horse trainer, so I sometimes think that he was
Speaker 1: just the best at what he does. So maybe it's
Speaker 1: just genetic, But I think about that because I'm like you,
Speaker 1: I just take things very seriously. So I want to
Speaker 1: know where you think that came from.
Speaker 2: I think seeing my dad, you know, he had good
Speaker 2: work ethics, and it's I think that, you know, just
Speaker 2: being raised that way and you know, to be professional
Speaker 2: and you show up, you work, you have to do
Speaker 2: your job.
Speaker 3: So I was raised seeing that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's just, yeah, that is that work ethic
Speaker 1: is entire I think. I think that when people now
Speaker 1: in the day of filtering and Instagram and the quick
Speaker 1: fame and instant gratification, I really do always say that
Speaker 1: I think that the key to success, longevity and success
Speaker 1: is just that work ethic, that old school work ethic.
Speaker 1: It could be nineteen fifty, like, it's just are you
Speaker 1: a person that really like works hard and doesn't count
Speaker 1: and when is lunch? And when am I punching in
Speaker 1: and punching out, like just I came up working for
Speaker 1: Derry Bruckheimer and for Mark Berg and for Lauren Michaels,
Speaker 1: and like I never remember asking when are we getting
Speaker 1: out of here? Or this job is too low for me.
Speaker 1: I just always with someone who I would work for free.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to be working.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how I was, too, and to do one
Speaker 2: or two lines on these shows. Actually I forgot the
Speaker 2: name of this one show, and it was basically I
Speaker 2: was an extra. I was there all day, like, but
Speaker 2: I didn't care.
Speaker 1: Right in the game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would work and I would stay. I
Speaker 2: never complained. I would stay as long as I needed
Speaker 2: to stay. If I was sick. There's no even you know,
Speaker 2: throughout my career, if you're sick, you have to show up.
Speaker 2: There's no one to replace you because you're on camera.
Speaker 1: Pros play hurt period. Yes, and I will. I will
Speaker 1: get into this after with your daughter or your daughters,
Speaker 1: do you feel like you've instilled that work ethic in them?
Speaker 1: Do they have a work ethic? I feel like true.
Speaker 2: I think that everyone's different though, and I think you know,
Speaker 2: it's the generation of our our daughters is a little different,
Speaker 2: and it's hard too because I feel that sometimes it's
Speaker 2: a quick they want everything right now.
Speaker 1: Instant gratification. And also they grew up with a mother
Speaker 1: who's famous and wealthy and a father who's famous and wealthy,
Speaker 1: and it's hard to be successful and have money and
Speaker 1: access and tell them not to you grew up with
Speaker 1: a father who was climbing up telephone poles Illinois. It's
Speaker 1: not you can't. It's hard to recreate that, right.
Speaker 2: But my daughters weren't born obviously when I started my
Speaker 2: career and see me, you know, all the auditions I
Speaker 2: went on and all the rejection and the stuff that
Speaker 2: I did deal with.
Speaker 1: It's funny because they say that fifties moms spent less
Speaker 1: stay at home mom spent less time with their kids
Speaker 1: than we do now because we're so use your inside
Speaker 1: voice and let's talk a bit, you know, and like
Speaker 1: all this stuff. So it's like, my daughter never really
Speaker 1: sees me working because I'm so present when I'm with her,
Speaker 1: which is all true and that's who I am. But
Speaker 1: like you know, when we were kids, our mother mothers
Speaker 1: are smoking when they're pregnant the kids, and you'd put
Speaker 1: your you had an audition, you would have just set
Speaker 1: your kid on a chair. Mommy's working. But now it's like,
Speaker 1: my daughter really doesn't see me work that much, and
Speaker 1: and who knows if that's even a good thing it
Speaker 1: she'd be like, shut up, sit down, I gotta go
Speaker 1: on the road. I'm going on a trip to Australia
Speaker 1: next year, and I want to make sure that, like
Speaker 1: I'm only working the two times and the rest of
Speaker 1: the time is a mommy and me experience because they're
Speaker 1: so coddle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true, you know, very different.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think for the longest time they thought I
Speaker 2: worked in a trailer because when they would come to set,
Speaker 2: they would come in the trailer, see me get my
Speaker 2: hair makeup done, right, But they wouldn't come on set
Speaker 2: because god forbid, they made a noise.
Speaker 3: Right, right, they screw a take up I did not want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, what if my kid says something
Speaker 2: and someone's take messed up?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You know, so I think they thought I worked in
Speaker 2: a trailer for the longest time.
Speaker 3: I don't even think they knew what I did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they really don't see the struggle. That's really interesting. Okay,
Speaker 1: So now your career when pops off. When you're saying
Speaker 1: the your wild Things popped it off, or.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I think that when you experience a successful
Speaker 2: product like television show or a movie or song, whatever,
Speaker 2: your career is. The work that it takes to get
Speaker 2: there is not overnight. But when something hits, that's overnight, right,
Speaker 2: it's the.
Speaker 1: Swell of the wave crests.
Speaker 2: And like you say, you go overnight when people when
Speaker 2: you go from people recognizing you or not and then
Speaker 2: to recognizing.
Speaker 1: You, right, And that was wild Things, and that was
Speaker 1: like astronomical fame.
Speaker 2: You know, you go to the grocery store and people
Speaker 2: recognize you, or you're on a cover of a magazine.
Speaker 2: That was weird to see yourself. No one has magazines
Speaker 2: really anymore. There's only a few, I think. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's very different. But back then, when you're you know,
Speaker 2: in line buying your groceries and you see yourself on
Speaker 2: the cover of something, it's weird.
Speaker 3: It's it's a little different. Y.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So how first of all, how did you handle that?
Speaker 1: How did that feel? And did you have a support system?
Speaker 1: Did you have good friends? Like you're in la, You're
Speaker 1: not in your.
Speaker 3: Well, you're out the front. There are certain friends that
Speaker 3: then get.
Speaker 1: Jealous, okay, because they're also actresses.
Speaker 2: Because that's where I met friends, was acting classes and
Speaker 2: you know, the little jobs along the way. The I
Speaker 2: did so many pilots that didn't get picked up, and
Speaker 2: you know, became friends with so many different actresses and
Speaker 2: actors along the way, and some of them I'm still
Speaker 2: close to and and some of them along.
Speaker 1: The way were couldn't handle it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's funny they say fame changes, and for
Speaker 2: some people it does change the person that becomes famous,
Speaker 2: but sometimes it's the people around you that change.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. In my life, fame was one thing, not
Speaker 1: at that level. But money. When you make money when
Speaker 1: I want, I had my Forbes cover, that's when people
Speaker 1: really get crazy. Yeah, because the money. I just always
Speaker 1: thought they were the same thing. When I saw you
Speaker 1: unsaved by the bell, I thought like you had to
Speaker 1: be rich because you were acting, but you definitely weren't.
Speaker 1: Now that I but but money too, and you added
Speaker 1: to that absolutely. So you pop off And are you
Speaker 1: making the right choices in your career? Like you have
Speaker 1: to make all these decisions.
Speaker 2: Because everything a lot of bad choices.
Speaker 1: I mean, no. Then like now you're really famous and
Speaker 1: everything's getting thrown at you and everybody wants something.
Speaker 2: From Oh, it's hard because then it's right away, Oh
Speaker 2: you need to hire I'm so grateful. I Jill was
Speaker 2: not my first publicist, but I'm so grateful, and we've
Speaker 2: been together almost my entire career. But there were there
Speaker 2: was like a year or so where I was with
Speaker 2: other people, not the best choices, and then it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: you need a business manager, you.
Speaker 3: Need this, this, this.
Speaker 2: It's overwhelmed, especially someone in your twenties. You become famous
Speaker 2: and you're you're a commodity and people you don't know,
Speaker 2: you're trusting the people around it.
Speaker 1: Of course it all sounds great, Yeah, it all sounds great.
Speaker 1: It all sounds that you need it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that you need the help in this, But
Speaker 2: it's also not knowing. I find it overwhelming.
Speaker 1: Everything sounds good, Yeah, everything, everything sounds good. It's like
Speaker 1: a horoscope and everything could apply to you, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily apply.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you're young, you're you don't it's it's a
Speaker 2: totally different job and experience, and so you rely on
Speaker 2: people that are in your life to help guide you.
Speaker 2: But I definitely have made a lot of bad decisions
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: So did you get really screwed financially many ways? Many
Speaker 1: And what have you learned? Like what what what is
Speaker 1: your what is your infrastructure like now?
Speaker 2: Like what if I learned if I could go back?
Speaker 2: I think to follow my gut. That's the thing that's
Speaker 2: the biggest advice I give my daughters. Always follow your gut.
Speaker 2: And that was something my mom would always tell me,
Speaker 2: but I didn't always.
Speaker 3: Listen to it.
Speaker 2: Is that little voice that's telling you your guardian angels,
Speaker 2: you know, if something doesn't feel quite right, just listen
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 1: Board.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the biggest lesson that I have and that
Speaker 2: I've learned, and what I'm trying to teach my daughters
Speaker 2: is always follow your gut because even if people don't
Speaker 2: agree with it.
Speaker 1: The times you've been screwed over are all of them.
Speaker 1: You kind of saw it, but you just didn't listen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that was that was business wise? What about personal?
Speaker 1: Obviously your relationship with Charlie and Richie Sambora was public.
Speaker 1: Did you date a lot of other actors? Were you
Speaker 1: in were you like doing the whole scene?
Speaker 2: No, I wasn't the type of woman that had to
Speaker 2: be in a relationship. I was okay being single and alone,
Speaker 2: so I didn't I have Obviously I dated and dated others,
Speaker 2: but not long term relationships.
Speaker 3: But I I was okay not dating.
Speaker 1: And how soon after Wild Things if that's the crest
Speaker 1: did you meet Charlie?
Speaker 3: Probably about four years after four or five years so, but.
Speaker 1: You were still at the height of your career. You
Speaker 1: were very doing very well. Everything was great success wise.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was working a lot.
Speaker 1: Because I for me, just being a fan and a viewer,
Speaker 1: I understand the attraction to Charlie Sheen for you having
Speaker 1: been in a relationship with someone that had having experienced
Speaker 1: people who are have addiction, there is the highs are
Speaker 1: very charismatic and very electric, and those types of people
Speaker 1: with the promises they make and the excitement and the
Speaker 1: road like is very intoxicating. So I because I've read
Speaker 1: things about you and that relationship and that he was
Speaker 1: seemed super charming and like you, you found it very exciting.
Speaker 1: So what was that like meeting him? And like, what
Speaker 1: was the sorry because Aaron's here and my fiance Paul's
Speaker 1: not into like he'll go go? Do I look like
Speaker 1: your girlfriend. You could go talk to Sarah. But last
Speaker 1: night I was saying some comedian was attractive. He's like,
Speaker 1: do I look like your best friend?
Speaker 3: I don't, you know?
Speaker 1: He's very so so sorry, yeah okay, so oh you
Speaker 1: have a good relationship with Chari. Okay, great, that's so
Speaker 1: not that's amazingship. I you know, and I also have
Speaker 1: I have sympathy for people who suffer from addiction. It is,
Speaker 1: it is a disease. So I just want to know
Speaker 1: what that attraction was like. And we're going to get
Speaker 1: into that ride a little bit. I, first of all,
Speaker 1: was incredibly naive to addiction.
Speaker 2: And when I met Charlie, he was sober for four years,
Speaker 2: so and people would ask me, oh, are you afraid
Speaker 2: he's going to relapse or this? For me, there was
Speaker 2: no question. I said, no, I don't. I didn't know
Speaker 2: that person. I only knew who I met, and that
Speaker 2: was a man who had been sober for four years.
Speaker 2: I didn't judge him for his past because I figured, well,
Speaker 2: his past made him who he is today. And the
Speaker 2: person that I met was very different from the person
Speaker 2: that spiral during I didn't, you know.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I thought I didn't know that
Speaker 1: he had already been recovering for well he was.
Speaker 2: And a lot of people said, oh, you you reformed
Speaker 2: the bad boy or this. I said, no, I he was.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have dated him. I didn't know that if
Speaker 2: I met him when he was in his addiction, deep
Speaker 2: in addiction, he was sober and a completely different person.
Speaker 3: So that's who I.
Speaker 1: Met And did he so he so? Did he not?
Speaker 1: He didn't drink or do anything else. So was it boring?
Speaker 1: Was it exciting?
Speaker 2: I'm just yeah. I wasn't a partier, so I was
Speaker 2: I didn't want to be with wasn't thinking, Oh shoot,
Speaker 2: I just started dating Charlie Sheen and I just read
Speaker 2: all these crazy stories about him, and how come we're
Speaker 2: not doing it? That wasn't part of it. And also,
Speaker 2: you know, back then we didn't have social media. It
Speaker 2: was all the tabloids. Obviously, I knew what was in
Speaker 2: the tabloids and just knew bits and pieces, and I
Speaker 2: didn't know what was true what wasn't true about his past.
Speaker 2: But I just knew the person that I met was
Speaker 2: someone who was I met him on a movie called
Speaker 2: Good Advice. He had just gotten replaced Michael j Fox
Speaker 2: on Spin City, and so he was getting ready to
Speaker 2: start that, and so we didn't. We weren't dating on
Speaker 2: the movie that I met him on. Then a year
Speaker 2: later I do Spin City. They went through a list
Speaker 2: of actresses with him and said we want to bring
Speaker 2: someone on to do a recurring role. And he said, oh, Denise.
Speaker 2: I worked with her great. Whatever, we got along, We
Speaker 2: worked good together. And so then I started I worked
Speaker 2: on Spin City, and then we started dating, and then here.
Speaker 3: We are and.
Speaker 1: To get here, Well, what was your thought about him?
Speaker 2: I really liked his work ethic. I thought he was
Speaker 2: a great actor. I thought it was funny. He was
Speaker 2: very kind, and you know, obviously there was an attraction
Speaker 2: in chemistry with with he and I and and so
Speaker 2: then it you know, evolved into a relationship. And also
Speaker 2: I wasn't one of these actresses either that was dating
Speaker 2: all my co stars. That wasn't my thing either. I
Speaker 2: there was only one other actor I dated that I
Speaker 2: worked with, and I dated him before we work together.
Speaker 2: But otherwise that wasn't I wasn't one that would hook
Speaker 2: up with you know, all the actors on set or
Speaker 2: you know, that wasn't for me. It was work I
Speaker 2: would go to work. I wasn't there to meet someone
Speaker 2: to date or make friends.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: He just jumped off the page or pursued you.
Speaker 2: Well, because I think we worked on a movie a
Speaker 2: year prior and we had a lot of mutual friends.
Speaker 2: We just you know, started talking more and just had.
Speaker 1: It started as a friendship.
Speaker 3: It started kind of a friendship.
Speaker 1: And where was being a bond girl and Playboy before this?
Speaker 3: Playboy bond before Playboy after?
Speaker 1: So bond was before? What was it like to be
Speaker 1: a Bond girl? Like just saying the pressure of doing
Speaker 1: it or after?
Speaker 2: Well, I had never People don't believe me, but it's true.
Speaker 2: I had never seen a movie. I believe I was cast.
Speaker 2: I flew I auditioned for it in la and then
Speaker 2: they I'll never forget this because it was Thanksgiving. They
Speaker 2: flew us to do screen tests with peers and I
Speaker 2: think there were six of us actresses. I brought my
Speaker 2: dad because I was sad to miss Thanksgiving, and so
Speaker 2: my mom had my dad go with me while I
Speaker 2: screen tested in London.
Speaker 1: But they were freaking out. Your parents were like, you're
Speaker 1: going to be a Bond girl at.
Speaker 3: The well, I didn't know if I was going to
Speaker 3: get the part.
Speaker 2: I had to fly there to do a screen test,
Speaker 2: and they fly, Yeah, they flew. They took very good
Speaker 2: care of us, and I went an audition. I was
Speaker 2: nervous as hell. I had to do scenes with peers
Speaker 2: at Pinewood Studios where they shot, and it's a very
Speaker 2: well known studio. I do the screen test and fly
Speaker 2: back to LA and then Jill set me up with
Speaker 2: an interview with details magazine. I think it was Our
Speaker 2: D I can't remember. I'm literally with the journalist when
Speaker 2: I get the call that I got the part.
Speaker 1: Oh did you tell the journalist?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I just got bond and he
Speaker 2: was like, what, what the fuck? You're gonna be bond girl.
Speaker 2: I'm like yeah, I go, well that's good.
Speaker 3: I'm excited.
Speaker 2: And he was like he was so excited that he
Speaker 2: was able to break it. But then I get home
Speaker 2: and it's on CNN and everywhere, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I call my agent. I'm like, why is this such
Speaker 2: a big deal? Why am I on the news about
Speaker 2: a role I got? Goes, Do you understand this movie?
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, that's amazing, that's so amazing. No one
Speaker 1: can ever take that away from you. Were your parents
Speaker 1: freaking out? Come on, your parents had to be freaking Yeah.
Speaker 2: That I would say is when internationally when things really chang,
Speaker 2: because I shot the movie. So I remember it was
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving that I auditioned, and then January they fly me
Speaker 2: out there with They let me bring my mom to
Speaker 2: look for an apartment because it was a six month shoot.
Speaker 2: So we find an apartment and then fly back and
Speaker 2: then I had to fly back again film six months,
Speaker 2: wrap in June and the movies out in November.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And then I'm on a month long press tour worldwide.
Speaker 1: That's fine.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, the fans for this.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people here.
Speaker 1: That's amazing.
Speaker 3: It was crazy. That's really a crazy experience.
Speaker 1: That's a ride. That's amazing. Wow, that's so cool. Okay,
Speaker 1: So then you're with Charlie and you have a pretty
Speaker 1: normal relationship. You're like, he's sober, you're in love, You're
Speaker 1: just a normal relationship, Hollywood normal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, we were.
Speaker 2: And then I get pregnant with Sammy, and that was
Speaker 2: probably a year into our marriage. I have Sammy. Five
Speaker 2: months later is when I shot Playboy. Okay, And I
Speaker 2: remember Playboy asking if he wanted to be the photographer.
Speaker 1: If Charlie would be the first a photographer.
Speaker 2: No, that's why it was like, No, they wanted to
Speaker 2: get behind the scenes of him shooting me. They said,
Speaker 2: the photographer can set up the shot, he just has
Speaker 2: to put the Oh yeah, they just wanted that.
Speaker 3: Whole thing do it.
Speaker 2: No, because he he got Two and a Half Men
Speaker 2: while I was pregnant, and so then he went into production,
Speaker 2: so he was, you know, nervous about starting a new
Speaker 2: TV show after God then City got canceled and so
Speaker 2: he got that, which, by the way, I read the script.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, you have to do this show.
Speaker 1: Oh, you were part of the decision.
Speaker 2: Oh he was going to do a different show.
Speaker 1: Oh weird.
Speaker 3: And I read the script. I go, you're crazy for
Speaker 3: not doing this.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. And that obviously was his most huge instrumental
Speaker 1: role in his whole life. Wow. So, now why did
Speaker 1: the wheels fall off? Was it about a holiday? I
Speaker 1: mean about a Hollywood relationship? Did the wheels fall off
Speaker 1: for him first? Did they fall off for you both together?
Speaker 2: Oh? No, I think because the success of Two and
Speaker 2: a Half Men and the money I think led to
Speaker 2: him getting back into being sober, but he was in.
Speaker 1: He was he believed his own you know, I drank
Speaker 1: his own crate.
Speaker 2: Something that he would have to answer, right, I just
Speaker 2: know it that he was no longer the person I married.
Speaker 1: He was on a hit show. And was he on
Speaker 1: a low in his career before that?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: He, I mean he did.
Speaker 2: He was on a low before he got Spin City, right,
Speaker 2: replacing Michael J. Fox, And he did a great job
Speaker 2: on that one, a golden globe. He had to go
Speaker 2: through struggles, and he's very public about that, with not
Speaker 2: working for quite quite a few years because of his addiction.
Speaker 2: And but I think the with the fame and the
Speaker 2: success of that show, whatever that is, that's something for
Speaker 2: him to talk about.
Speaker 3: But all I know is he.
Speaker 2: Was no longer the person that I married and no
Speaker 2: longer sober.
Speaker 1: So and how quick did that happen? So the show was,
Speaker 1: it was an instant hit, It was explosive, and then
Speaker 1: how quick did you start to see?
Speaker 2: Well we got let's see, after Sammy was born. I
Speaker 2: got pregnant six months later with Lola, and I filed
Speaker 2: for divorce when I was six months pregnant?
Speaker 1: Now, how bad is your family life inside? Like in
Speaker 1: what because we're reading in the tabloids, how insane is
Speaker 1: what's going on your house?
Speaker 2: Or is it well insane enough for me to file
Speaker 2: for divorce six months pregnant?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: It wasn't like I moved out and we had a
Speaker 2: little separation.
Speaker 1: It was get out. Yeah, we got to get out.
Speaker 1: And what about your parents or what are they saying?
Speaker 1: Did they understand why you married Charlie? Are they like
Speaker 1: who is this person? What are we doing?
Speaker 2: They? Yeah, they liked Charlie and they were very supportive
Speaker 2: of us being married and getting married. Like I said,
Speaker 2: he was very different from what the public saw when
Speaker 2: he spiraled after all that stuff with publicly when after
Speaker 2: two and a half men, when he was fired and
Speaker 2: going through all that with the Tiger Blood and all
Speaker 2: that show.
Speaker 1: So when you file how soon?
Speaker 3: There was a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2: Obviously people did not know that it was not public,
Speaker 2: But when I filed it was basically he went to work.
Speaker 2: I packed a suitcase and took our daughter, who is
Speaker 2: just not even one, and went to the Beverly Hills
Speaker 2: Hotel and I went to file for divorce and went
Speaker 2: to a fitting for a pilot that I was doing.
Speaker 1: So how bad is it publicly? Then? Like what's going like?
Speaker 1: What's going on publicly?
Speaker 2: It was again, I was stupid. I was shocked that
Speaker 2: it was so public. I thought, oh, it'll just be
Speaker 2: a little blurb. It wasn't a little blurb. It was
Speaker 2: we were on the cover of tabloids for a couple
Speaker 2: of years. I was insane and I couldn't understand why.
Speaker 2: That was very difficult for me because being pregnant and
Speaker 2: it was hard enough that I was having a deal
Speaker 2: with this, going through a divorce, have a one year old,
Speaker 2: and I'm pregnant, and it's so public, and to have
Speaker 2: the mud slinging as well with you know, I just
Speaker 2: wanted us to just shut the fuck up and go
Speaker 2: through it.
Speaker 1: And where was he in his career and in this
Speaker 1: public aspect on.
Speaker 3: The hottest show ever?
Speaker 2: And they wanted to protect him, and they knew something
Speaker 2: must be mad for the wife where no one read
Speaker 2: stuff about us, And that's that's the thing now, looking back,
Speaker 2: why people weren't quite surprised was because it wasn't as
Speaker 2: though people saw us fighting in public or again, there
Speaker 2: was no social media where people could, but even at
Speaker 2: that we weren't the type of couple to do that.
Speaker 2: They saw us three weeks earlier at the SAG Awards,
Speaker 2: and then three weeks later, I'm filing for freaking divorce.
Speaker 1: And it was just the first time you saw like
Speaker 1: the spin of fame, like fame biting you in the ass, like.
Speaker 2: You well, it was the spin of my personal life
Speaker 2: being so public. I was not getting at that moment
Speaker 2: any negative publicity. It was people felt bad for me,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, things must be really.
Speaker 1: You were sympathetic because you were pregnant. Yeah, you were
Speaker 1: a woman and.
Speaker 2: So but I and I didn't want anything bad for
Speaker 2: him either, you know, negative in the press. I didn't
Speaker 2: want that. I didn't want it to be so public.
Speaker 2: But it was what it was, which is very difficult.
Speaker 2: It's hard enough going through a divorce or anything, you know, personally,
Speaker 2: but then to deal with it so publicly, as you know,
Speaker 2: it's really hard.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, you've been churned through the machine many times,
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of times over and over, being
Speaker 1: turned through the machine, no or not really.
Speaker 2: Back then, yeah, yeah, and that was a big risk
Speaker 2: for me that could have gone either way. I took
Speaker 2: a big risk doing that. I thought this could maybe
Speaker 2: I won't ever work again. But it was such an
Speaker 2: amazing project and a great script and good people involved.
Speaker 3: I felt like it was worth the risk.
Speaker 1: That was risky. Playboy it was risky too. You're on
Speaker 1: top of the world and then you're doing Playboy.
Speaker 2: Well I did Playboy when, and like I said, I
Speaker 2: was you know, I felt like it was also a
Speaker 2: little I was offered it actually during right after Wild
Speaker 2: Things or I don't remember, but I turned it down,
Speaker 2: and then they came back again after Sammy was born,
Speaker 2: and I thought, well, you know what, why not It's
Speaker 2: okay to show that I can be a mom and
Speaker 2: still be perceived as sexy. It doesn't mean well.
Speaker 1: That's coming that comes into play with the only fans,
Speaker 1: which I'm really interested in too. But all right, so Charlie,
Speaker 1: the wheels come off, and then but the wheels haven't
Speaker 1: yet come off at work because he's just like a
Speaker 1: Hollywood bad boy and he's still working, he's still making money.
Speaker 1: So when does this really devolve? Like because hete because
Speaker 1: what we saw publicly was like it was kind of
Speaker 1: like Kanye ish, like Kanye was on.
Speaker 2: Wheel when his wheels fell off to your.
Speaker 1: Work, because well, his wheels are your wheels. His wheels
Speaker 1: came off, and then it became it always splattered back. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean anytime there was anything public about him, I
Speaker 2: would for some reason be dragged in, Right, that's what
Speaker 2: I saw. But we were divorced quite a few years.
Speaker 2: That's the thing that people but you're co parenting, were
Speaker 2: co parenting. So I know because it was twenty eleven
Speaker 2: because that's when always the year she was born. But
Speaker 2: he was fired in twenty eleven from two and a
Speaker 2: half men. I filed for divorce in two thousand and five,
Speaker 2: so we were divorced for six years. Yeah, and he
Speaker 2: already had another marriage and another divorce book, which yeah,
Speaker 2: but by the time.
Speaker 3: His wheels fell off, went to and half men.
Speaker 1: But you were trying to co parent while no one
Speaker 1: else saw. What I'm saying is it reminds me of,
Speaker 1: for some reason, of Kim and Kanye, because Kanye everyone
Speaker 1: loved and respected. He's so entertaining and he's a genius.
Speaker 1: And you know that Charlie was a genius and charismatic,
Speaker 1: and no one's thinking about his addiction because they're watching
Speaker 1: this entertaining show, and it's making all this money and
Speaker 1: it's the highest paid actor on television, and Kanye was
Speaker 1: on top of the world. And then one day, like
Speaker 1: everybody sees what you see because the wheels come off
Speaker 1: for us. And of course everyone even applauded that he
Speaker 1: went up in Twitter followers because people were almost like
Speaker 1: embracing the crazy. And but then one day it crashes
Speaker 1: and burns. I saw that with Kanye too, and Charlie
Speaker 1: crashed and burned when he lost the job.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's when it happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm saying, did you feel any Not that
Speaker 1: you wanted that to happen to him, but like somebody
Speaker 1: seeing your side of it first, you're not, you know,
Speaker 1: because you got so so so trashed in the past.
Speaker 2: I think there there was definitely a part of me
Speaker 2: that felt okay, now, I think people understand without me
Speaker 2: saying it, what was going on, and that there was
Speaker 2: a lot going on behind closed doors that I didn't
Speaker 2: divulge and I didn't say and and to be painted
Speaker 2: as someone so bad by a lot of people on
Speaker 2: his side was very hard for me because I had
Speaker 2: a whole studio, I had very powerful men that were
Speaker 2: involved in his production that tried to paint me as
Speaker 2: this horrible person when all I was trying to do
Speaker 2: was one. I helped them a lot by helping him
Speaker 2: that they all know, and also to protect our girls,
Speaker 2: because just because we're in the public eye and we're
Speaker 2: a famous family doesn't mean the kids have to be
Speaker 2: pulled into that so much. And people don't realize, like
Speaker 2: even with the paparazzi, some of the questions they would
Speaker 2: yell at me in front of our daughters, and I
Speaker 2: would say, please, they can hear, they can hear you.
Speaker 2: Please don't ask me these questions or say it was
Speaker 2: so difficult, and you know, I'll never forget we were.
Speaker 2: We came to New York to I was promoting a show,
Speaker 2: and Charlie thought it would be great for him to
Speaker 2: come with us.
Speaker 1: And this is why you're not together. While we weren't together,
Speaker 1: Oh so you had a sort of amicable co parenting relationship.
Speaker 3: We went through ups and downs.
Speaker 2: There was a period when I took care of his sons,
Speaker 2: and then there was a period when things were really bad.
Speaker 2: So it would go up and down, and so during
Speaker 2: the times where it was up, I wanted to have
Speaker 2: the girls experience wonderful moments with their dad and I,
Speaker 2: and I wanted them to see us be able to
Speaker 2: be together at whether it's a birthday party or whatever.
Speaker 2: We did go on vacation together, and it might sound
Speaker 2: weird for people. We wouldn't stay in the same room,
Speaker 2: but we wanted the girls to still have that family
Speaker 2: unit whenever possible.
Speaker 1: Underneath all the craziness. It sounds like that says a
Speaker 1: lot about both of you. I went through a very
Speaker 1: public ten year divorce and stayed quiet too, and it's
Speaker 1: impossible because you know what's really going on, and you
Speaker 1: don't feel vindicated, and you feel like you're a villain.
Speaker 1: And I really relate to that. But also that a
Speaker 1: child's daughter's first relationship is with her dad with a man,
Speaker 1: so you have to really try to foster that being positive.
Speaker 1: And it says a lot about both of you that
Speaker 1: you somehow, even through all the craziness, even him through
Speaker 1: an addiction, understood like somehow fundamentally that it's we should
Speaker 1: all be together and that you are a family unit
Speaker 1: forever no matter.
Speaker 3: What, right, yeah, no matter what happens.
Speaker 1: That's really amazing, shock, it's amazing and shocking, and so
Speaker 1: you went through a complete ship storm beyond belief. And
Speaker 1: what were the financial ramifications of that from his because
Speaker 1: he's he's supporting supposed to be supporting you or child
Speaker 1: support at alimony and his show.
Speaker 2: And again I go back to there is certain advice
Speaker 2: I would give someone going through a divorce is to
Speaker 2: settle it as soon as possible, because the people that
Speaker 2: make the money.
Speaker 3: Are the lawyers. Right.
Speaker 2: I spent a fucking fortune.
Speaker 1: Million, I spent millions millions, same million.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, it's a lot, and you can't get out.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: I felt like sometimes they would meet for drinks, our
Speaker 2: lawyers when we would get along and say what can
Speaker 2: we do to try to fuck this up so that
Speaker 2: we can continue like stringing this out. I don't know
Speaker 2: if they did, but that's how I felt, because it
Speaker 2: was just it was things would be good and then
Speaker 2: something would happen.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my fuck.
Speaker 1: It's really hard. But it's impossible to even implement that
Speaker 1: because both parties are never hearing you, and people often
Speaker 1: hate the other person more than they love their kids.
Speaker 2: It's terrible and it becomes about something else, and that's
Speaker 2: what it shouldn't be. But we didn't have a prenup.
Speaker 2: But I also I didn't go after half of I
Speaker 2: could have gone after half of two and a half. Men,
Speaker 2: I was with him when yes, you know all of that,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people have said that I was
Speaker 2: a gold digger and all this stuff. And that's the
Speaker 2: thing that was terrible when we were going through our divorce, like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, if they only knew.
Speaker 1: Oh they thought you were going after the two and
Speaker 1: a half.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what I could of Yeah, by
Speaker 2: the way, rightfully so, and I think I would have
Speaker 2: deserved every fucking penny. What I had to deal with.
Speaker 2: The money was the last thing that we dealt with.
Speaker 2: It was more about the custody, yeah, and all of
Speaker 2: that stuff. And that's the thing that was so hard,
Speaker 2: was you know, thank god my kids were so young
Speaker 2: at the time because they but they would hear little
Speaker 2: things as they started to get older, and I lied
Speaker 2: to them all the time, and yeah, it was it
Speaker 2: was not easy.
Speaker 1: But did you have you able to have any compassion
Speaker 1: about the fact that he is an addict and so
Speaker 1: he's making these promises he literally is capable.
Speaker 2: Of absolutely And that's the thing that that's why I
Speaker 2: protected him and lied to the girls. Is because I
Speaker 2: didn't ever want to trash him. I didn't want to
Speaker 2: say anything negative about him. I would cover up for
Speaker 2: him as much as possible because I didn't want to
Speaker 2: influence their relationship with each other, no matter what my
Speaker 2: feelings were at the time on and off with him.
Speaker 1: Very mature. It is important too, it's important. And did
Speaker 1: he want custody or it was just was it a
Speaker 1: battle about that?
Speaker 3: Or it was more about the fight.
Speaker 2: And this is like sometimes I say to when people
Speaker 2: I get asked a lot about divorce and custody and
Speaker 2: moms and dads that will reach out to me and
Speaker 2: and you know, I finally was just like what do
Speaker 2: you want? What do you want? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I was like this this is I go. Done. And
Speaker 3: then it was like okay, I go.
Speaker 1: You got it a new thing each time, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was more about the fight and
Speaker 2: to keep it engage us engaged.
Speaker 1: Well, it's a passion and that's that's the addiction too.
Speaker 1: It's something to focus on and obsess over.
Speaker 2: But then he was also going through another divorce while
Speaker 2: going through our divorce.
Speaker 1: Was he leaning on you during that like off and on.
Speaker 3: He would go back and forth between the two.
Speaker 1: Of us and are you friends with her?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing. And Aaron was just here saying he's
Speaker 1: friends with Charlie, So I don't know, you have to
Speaker 1: so I.
Speaker 2: Could say, there's hope if he and I, by the way, yeah,
Speaker 2: be in a room or vacation or have dinner together,
Speaker 2: or him and I want to go on.
Speaker 1: A vacation with you and Charlie Sheen. That's just what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. I'm just saying that, And Aaron like, I
Speaker 1: just can I be invited? I just really do I want.
Speaker 3: To if we could fly on your plane, yes.
Speaker 1: Perfect, I will get a plane if we can all go,
Speaker 1: I will one hundred get a plane because I I
Speaker 1: really want to be on the vacation Desine, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I've always Yeah, I have compassion. I'm sympathetic
Speaker 1: to someone who has addiction. I'm really I really think
Speaker 1: it's so admirable that you all have a modern family. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're a modern family, and that you literally all I
Speaker 1: mean you is Charlie she and a good father.
Speaker 2: I wanted him always to be the best dad he
Speaker 2: could be. And now and he's you know, he's not
Speaker 2: my father, right, but I always want him. And that's
Speaker 2: why I was always so supportive is because I and
Speaker 2: why I would help him, because some people would be like,
Speaker 2: why are you helping him? You know he's done so
Speaker 2: much to you, or are you still in love with him?
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I want him to be the best
Speaker 2: version of himself.
Speaker 3: For our daughters. He's their dad, no matter what happens.
Speaker 2: So I've always wanted that for him and for our
Speaker 2: kids and for his boys.
Speaker 1: And is he doing a good job with that today?
Speaker 3: He's great.
Speaker 1: That's good. And do you think that because he says
Speaker 1: that's it, I'm not never going back. I'm never going
Speaker 1: to touch anything again. Do you believe that he like
Speaker 1: is very that his addiction is first in his priorities?
Speaker 2: Like I believe that his addiction is first in his priorities.
Speaker 1: That's amazing.
Speaker 2: I was ignorant when we got together about a day
Speaker 2: because I wasn't educated about addiction, and that's why I
Speaker 2: never thought he would ever relapse ever. Because I wasn't educated,
Speaker 2: I was very naive. I think I know his intention
Speaker 2: is with any addict that gets sober, their intention is
Speaker 2: to be sober, so but you.
Speaker 1: Are more aware. So you and the girls are like
Speaker 1: creating the support system to I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: I'm not one of these that's always like, oh I
Speaker 2: wonder if he's going to relapse. It's just it's day
Speaker 2: by day, yeah, with you know, I have a nephew
Speaker 2: who's an addict, and he, you know, is doing good today,
Speaker 2: but and his intention is to do good today. But
Speaker 2: I've learned, and I've been educated with addiction that all
Speaker 2: I can do is just be supportive. But mine and
Speaker 2: Charlie's talks aren't always about sobriety.
Speaker 3: Oh no, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like we're talking about children, his boys, you know, and
Speaker 2: also with his X and the dynamic of all of that.
Speaker 3: So we all help each other.
Speaker 1: Your grown ups, your community, and you.
Speaker 3: Want to be grown ups. There's life is too short
Speaker 3: to not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but for people who have been in relationships with
Speaker 1: addicts or have family members, it really it's just amazing
Speaker 1: because I'm thinking about all the crazy things that he
Speaker 1: did say publicly, and like it really can mess with
Speaker 1: your mind, It can messed with like you.
Speaker 2: What he has said about me was awful and hurtful,
Speaker 2: and this is not an easy road, and it hasn't been.
Speaker 2: I've been through hell and back with him. But at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, I'm one that is very
Speaker 2: forgiving and I like to move forward and keep things
Speaker 2: as peaceful as possible.
Speaker 1: And clean exactly.
Speaker 2: I don't like to bring up shit and harp on.
Speaker 2: It's just like, it is what it is. Let's move on,
Speaker 2: let's move forward.
Speaker 1: And that's why you ended up being a decent housewife.
Speaker 1: We'll get into that.
Speaker 3: Jesus.
Speaker 1: No, but that is that is that's amazing. No, that's
Speaker 1: very I.
Speaker 2: Think people have a hard time understanding that about me.
Speaker 1: They well, it's funny because I had Hillary Clinton on
Speaker 1: here and she people really wanted her to not forgive Bill.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. They really wanted her to
Speaker 1: like because that would have dictated how they felt. And
Speaker 1: now that doesn't define their entire relationship, right, Monica Lewinsky,
Speaker 1: doesn't define Bill and Hillary's entire How many years they've
Speaker 1: been married, so you were not married, But I just
Speaker 1: it's not the definition of you have a lot of
Speaker 1: other things going on and the stakes are way higher
Speaker 1: than that, and do you forgive him? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I really feel because a lot of people ask me
Speaker 2: if I regret marrying him, and I absolutely do not,
Speaker 2: because I know that we came into each other's lives
Speaker 2: to have our daughters, and if we were not together,
Speaker 2: we would not have our daughters.
Speaker 3: So we were.
Speaker 2: Our journey was as a married couple was cut shorter.
Speaker 3: Than what I thought. I thought.
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't think when I was getting married, oh,
Speaker 2: this is going to end up in divorce. I'm sure
Speaker 2: a lot of other people did, thinking, oh, Charlie Sheen's
Speaker 2: getting married, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, but you're still in each other's lives.
Speaker 2: Right, and we have daughters, and as shit, hell, everything was,
Speaker 2: it is what it is, and it was part of
Speaker 2: the journey.
Speaker 1: It was part of the journey. It's also now it's
Speaker 1: two actors coming up in Hollywood. It's a lot of
Speaker 1: ingredients in that pile, you know.
Speaker 2: It's there's no handbook on There's a lot of books
Speaker 2: on going through divorce and families and blending families, but
Speaker 2: there isn't really one, and it's not to It's not
Speaker 2: like woe is me or poor us because we're in
Speaker 2: the public, but there isn't a handbook on dealing with
Speaker 2: it publicly. It's embarrassing and humiliating dealing with this shit
Speaker 2: and for my kids. So that's the hard thing that
Speaker 2: that's the hardest thing that it's been like navigating that
Speaker 2: part of it.
Speaker 1: Oh well, you know, and in each part of it,
Speaker 1: you've got a deal over here, a movie over here,
Speaker 1: a part over here, and they're judging you based on
Speaker 1: what's coming on over here. And he's got the same thing,
Speaker 1: and he's losing shows because of it, and together, it's
Speaker 1: just it's torching the whole kingdom, to be honest, It's
Speaker 1: like people don't realize it's it's it is. It does
Speaker 1: reflect what divorces are like for other people, just on
Speaker 1: a bigger scale. But yeah, everybody, everybody loses. Everybody loses
Speaker 1: in divorces except for the lawyers and the court system,
Speaker 1: which is really fucked. And so you co parent these
Speaker 1: girls and you're married to Aaron now who just said
Speaker 1: that he has a good relationship with Charlie. This is
Speaker 1: all very evolved. I just read an article about your
Speaker 1: daughter in Bustle and I thought it was so interesting.
Speaker 1: Now I am naive. I don't know. I'm very naive
Speaker 1: about a lot of things too. I don't understand I
Speaker 1: don't know what OnlyFans is. I've heard about it. I've
Speaker 1: heard about it either, okay, So I've heard about it
Speaker 1: because of Larisa Pippen and because of you and your daughter.
Speaker 1: And what is only Fans? It's a site where people
Speaker 1: get to like it's like flirty or it's like full nudity,
Speaker 1: or like what is only fans?
Speaker 3: Only Fans is whatever you want it to be.
Speaker 2: And to me, I thought of it as back in
Speaker 2: the day when you would join a fan club.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Okay, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: And yes, is there stuff on there that's more scay, Sure.
Speaker 1: There's a spectrum.
Speaker 3: You're saying.
Speaker 2: It's whatever you want it to be. Okay, So what
Speaker 2: you don't have to do anything you don't want to.
Speaker 1: But what it's a So it's a site for fans
Speaker 1: to get exclusive content, exclusive content, so video content okay, so.
Speaker 2: And pictures and pictures and communicating whatever and messaging people.
Speaker 1: So it's a world and it's a it's a business
Speaker 1: for many people, right, it's like a business.
Speaker 3: I learned it. It's a business.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: I didn't know at the time though, So.
Speaker 1: Some people are TikTok famous, and some people are Instagram
Speaker 1: famous and some people are like only fan famous, right,
Speaker 1: like I have to be famous.
Speaker 3: I don't know that.
Speaker 2: No, there's a lot of people on OnlyFans that are
Speaker 2: not uh household names that are. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: different people on there that do different things, and like.
Speaker 1: A niche like Cameo had different categories of people that
Speaker 1: would send messages.
Speaker 2: And it's also but it's also some people do you
Speaker 2: know cooking or you know building?
Speaker 1: How normal cooking like you know, be wearing sexy You
Speaker 1: could do normal cooking.
Speaker 3: You can do normal cooking on there.
Speaker 1: There are not fans cooking.
Speaker 2: I do potato could be you should, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1: Why can't I do caviar baked potato cottages.
Speaker 2: They would like if you were naked, but okay, you.
Speaker 1: Could naked, Babe could naked.
Speaker 2: Maybe you could do whatever you want. It's whatever you
Speaker 2: maked potatoes. I think that what gave it a perception
Speaker 2: was a lot of adult film actors are on the page,
Speaker 2: and so I think that's where it came from.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I actually don't know, to be honest with you, But
Speaker 2: all I know is my daughter joined it and she
Speaker 2: got so much backlash, and I was so upset. I
Speaker 2: was upset for her because I know what that's like
Speaker 2: to get backlash.
Speaker 3: For something and to have people say stuff. And she's
Speaker 3: so young.
Speaker 1: She's nineteen. Yeah, she's nineteen, and she was eighteen when
Speaker 1: she was eighteen, which is very young, right, But what
Speaker 1: is she? What was she she went on there? What
Speaker 1: was her job?
Speaker 2: She's not showing she was in school. She didn't have
Speaker 2: like a job job, but she she wasn't even showing topless,
Speaker 2: so she.
Speaker 3: Still got backlash.
Speaker 2: She was just being like she was wearing bathing suits
Speaker 2: or I've never been on her page.
Speaker 1: Why you can't do handle it?
Speaker 2: I thought, well, I would think it. Sometimes it's weird
Speaker 2: for me to even go on my kids' instagram because
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know, it's.
Speaker 1: Just a no. I saw one of my daughter's thirteen
Speaker 1: year old friends in a sexy Halloween costume and I thought,
Speaker 1: holy shit, so thirteen year old are just in lingerie
Speaker 1: and I thought it was provocative. I imagine your eighteen year
Speaker 1: old daughter just being in a bathing suit is not?
Speaker 3: Is your on social media?
Speaker 1: Yes, she's on TikTok and Instagram. She's she's very young,
Speaker 1: like she's even thirteen.
Speaker 2: Isn't it kind of weird though to see her on
Speaker 2: a social it was weird for me.
Speaker 1: Yes, but I snapped the leash when it's like it
Speaker 1: feels a little provocative and it's not. But she's thirteen.
Speaker 2: I tried to snap in that at thirteen, and yes,
Speaker 2: but when they're eighteen, it's a little different.
Speaker 1: No, it is total. I'm a kid with you. And
Speaker 1: I was saying Paul last night about some of Prince's
Speaker 1: friends that I've seen. I said, I don't think it's
Speaker 1: only because of my quote unquote good parenting. I think
Speaker 1: some kids just are real curious, real early and just
Speaker 1: trying to get out there. And they want they want
Speaker 1: to be their boy crazy or a girl crazy. They
Speaker 1: just they want to get out there. It's just it's
Speaker 1: just inside of.
Speaker 2: It, right, So different generations.
Speaker 1: You're saying, your daughter is on this site and got
Speaker 1: a lot of heat even though she's not not naked,
Speaker 1: she's wearing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I decided, well, fuck it, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: open up an account.
Speaker 3: I'll see what this is.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, And so you open up an account and
Speaker 1: not with her, your own account, No, no. Okay, so she
Speaker 1: hasn't seen yours and you haven't seen her.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Interesting, but Aaron has seen yours, and has Aaron seen.
Speaker 2: Anybody's He has not seen my daughter, so he doesn't
Speaker 2: even know how to get on the damn side.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what the site is. But have
Speaker 1: you seen Denise's He shoots a lot of my Aaron
Speaker 1: shoots the content but doesn't see the result. Okay, So
Speaker 1: how lucrative? Is only fans for your daughter and for you?
Speaker 1: Is she supporting herself on this?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Wait, like is it like people are making millions of
Speaker 1: dollars a year or just like one hundreds? A lot
Speaker 1: of people make that, so it's a real income, Like
Speaker 1: she's yeah, okay.
Speaker 3: You can make a lot of money on it.
Speaker 1: And I feel like she sort of like messed around
Speaker 1: with the reporters, like taunting them by saying she's a
Speaker 1: sex worker, like she was paying around.
Speaker 2: She didn't understand. This is where I think I am
Speaker 2: trying to get them to understand, be very careful what
Speaker 2: you say.
Speaker 3: Okay, what you post.
Speaker 2: I said this from day one when they got their
Speaker 2: social media accounts.
Speaker 1: Wait, who's they meaning?
Speaker 2: My daughters both are no no, no, Lola is not
Speaker 2: on OnlyFans, but just social media. And okay, I said,
Speaker 2: you always have to be careful whatever photos you sent
Speaker 2: to your friends or what you put in writing anything.
Speaker 2: I said, you have to be very careful because nothing
Speaker 2: is private. I don't care what you think it's not.
Speaker 2: And so from the very beginning of them going on
Speaker 2: social media any you know, social media, TikTok or Instagram, whatever,
Speaker 2: you have to be careful, even texting a front. And
Speaker 2: so from there though, with with Sammy I and starting
Speaker 2: to do interviews and that sort of thing, I tried
Speaker 2: to you know, I'm explaining that it's it's a process
Speaker 2: I learned, learned too doing interviews and everything, sometimes getting
Speaker 2: misquoted or you know, saying something you shouldn't say and
Speaker 2: regretting that whatever it is. So with her, I think
Speaker 2: it's a process of learning. And I think that it's
Speaker 2: not as easy to get things taken down, oh and
Speaker 2: stuff like that.
Speaker 1: When I read about it, I took it that she was.
Speaker 2: I don't play the sex workers comment she made I
Speaker 2: believe on an Instagram post.
Speaker 1: Oh and now she's reframing it.
Speaker 3: Yes, it so smart, I believe.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I think it was there that she said it.
Speaker 1: And it didn't land. But now she's reframing.
Speaker 3: It and she was surprised.
Speaker 2: I believe how it was taken and she didn't mean
Speaker 2: it that way. And so now with Bussele, I thought
Speaker 2: she did a great job with the article, and you
Speaker 2: know she was trying to I believe, reframe it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think she did. I think she did
Speaker 1: a great job. And also I feel like, how is
Speaker 1: a mother. You were young, you were an actress, you
Speaker 1: were living in your six hundred dollars apartment, you did Playboy,
Speaker 1: So it's hard for you to say you can't do this.
Speaker 1: I mean not that she would listen to you, and
Speaker 1: she's an adult, but she won't.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's of age and she can do whatever
Speaker 2: the hell she wants. It's hard at times, and I
Speaker 2: don't always agree with every decision. My parents I'm sure
Speaker 2: didn't agree with every decision. I'm sure my dad doesn't
Speaker 2: agree with every decision I make, even now as a
Speaker 2: grown up, you know, but as a parent, I have
Speaker 2: to let her.
Speaker 3: Grow.
Speaker 2: But I'm here for her, and I try to also
Speaker 2: guide her and try to explain certain things too. And
Speaker 2: I think it is a very difficult thing for kids.
Speaker 2: You'll see as your daughter gets older, being the daughter
Speaker 2: of someone famous, and how it's going to be when
Speaker 2: she's evolving into being having boys like her and having
Speaker 2: maybe boys say things about her mom or do you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Yeah, that's a whole different dynamic too, changing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's different. And so I I didn't grow up
Speaker 2: the way my kids are growing up and have grown up.
Speaker 2: I grew up very different. So I can't imagine what
Speaker 2: that must be like. You know, sometimes I really think
Speaker 2: about it. I'm like, shit, it must be really weird
Speaker 2: that their mom did some of this ship you know, not.
Speaker 1: To be a hypocrite and say you can't do this exactly,
Speaker 1: but people are are people blaming you? The mom shamers
Speaker 1: like blaming you.
Speaker 2: I don't read any of that crap. I'm sure they're
Speaker 2: blaming both Charlie and I, you know, between the two
Speaker 2: of us.
Speaker 3: I'm sure they're like these two fuck ups.
Speaker 2: You know, you're tall, I've had everything and under the
Speaker 2: sun set about me. I'm like, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: read their negative bullshit. Already know what the negative comments
Speaker 2: will be.
Speaker 3: If I see a.
Speaker 2: Positive one, I was like, oh god, that's nice. And
Speaker 2: then I stop at that one, and then I won't
Speaker 2: read anything else.
Speaker 1: Right, And where does Charlie stand on all of this?
Speaker 1: Where's where is he? Well?
Speaker 2: When he when she first did only fans, he was
Speaker 2: not happy and I think was public about it, which
Speaker 2: she didn't appreciate. And uh, he's changed his tune.
Speaker 1: You guys are being supportive and all together.
Speaker 2: I mean he changed his tone when she bought a
Speaker 2: Mercedes and moved into a house.
Speaker 3: So I was like, maybe this ain't so bad after all, when.
Speaker 1: She bought the Mercedes and moved to your house.
Speaker 2: Okay, So so I mean, I don't want.
Speaker 1: To speak for him, but I would love he's one
Speaker 1: of my people. When people ask me, now, who one
Speaker 1: of who my dream guest is after, I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: Charlie that, yeah, i'd like to have him.
Speaker 3: I think he's very interesting.
Speaker 1: I think the story is interesting. I think i'd like
Speaker 1: to think that happen. Okay, I really do. I have
Speaker 1: a natural interest in that