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Speaker 1: On the morning of August first, two thousand, a woman's

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Speaker 1: partially burned and decomposing body was found behind a middle

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Speaker 1: school in Mayfield, Kentucky. Eighteen year old Jessica Current had

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Speaker 1: last been seen playing cards with friends on the previous

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Speaker 1: Saturday night, leaving a nearly three day gap where no

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Speaker 1: one claimed to have seen her. The crime was investigated

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Speaker 1: by local and state police, but after a couple of

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Speaker 1: years the trail went cold. Then, prompted by a citizen's

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Speaker 1: investigation conducted by a local housewife, one of Jessica's friends

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Speaker 1: came forward with a bizarre tale. In it she and

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Speaker 1: a group of friends had partied with Jessica that night,

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Speaker 1: then kidnapped, beaten, and raped her, and finally killed her.

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Speaker 1: The ringleader, she told police, was Quincy Cross. Quincy had

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Speaker 1: been at a party in Mayfield that night, but he

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Speaker 1: claimed never to have met Jessica or any of the

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Speaker 1: others involved. Still at trial, when others testified to the

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Speaker 1: events of that night, they two pointed to Quincy as

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Speaker 1: the murderer. But this is wrongful conviction, So welcome back

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Speaker 1: to wrongful conviction. I'm Maggie Freeling, host of wrongful conviction

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Speaker 1: with Maggie Freeling and I'm so excited to be sitting

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Speaker 1: in for Jason Flamm today and to share this story

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Speaker 1: with you today. I have Quincy Cross with me and

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Speaker 1: I also have Miranda Hellman, his attorney from the Kentucky

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Speaker 1: Innocence Project. Miranda, thank you for being here, Thanks for

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Speaker 1: having us. Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: Quincy, Hey, how you doing?

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Speaker 1: I am well. How do you feel about telling everyone

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Speaker 1: your story today? I know you haven't done that much.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot of things that I've been olding in

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Speaker 2: for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's get to it. I want to hear your

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Speaker 1: story in detail, and usually I just like to start

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Speaker 1: with your life growing up? What was that like?

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Speaker 2: I grew up with sisters and brothers on both sides

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Speaker 2: my family, my mom's side, you know, my dad's side,

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Speaker 2: on my stepmom's side. You know what I'm saying, very old,

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Speaker 2: protected by my sisters, all of them, provider, protector, somebody

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Speaker 2: that they can come talk to, have the conversations that

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Speaker 2: they can't have with other people. And they know that.

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Speaker 2: And uh, and we have real good times. You know,

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Speaker 2: as kids, we did other things together. We used to

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Speaker 2: catch turtles and snakes and all that we used to

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Speaker 2: go frog gig, we used to have you know, just

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Speaker 2: do what young kids do. I grew up in Union

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Speaker 2: City and I grew up in Wooler Mills, Tennessee. So

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm a country guy, all right.

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Speaker 1: You got to explain that to me, though, Quincy, I

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Speaker 1: grew up in New York City. What is growing up

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Speaker 1: in the country, Like.

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Speaker 2: Okay, country is a whole It's a whole lot of

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Speaker 2: love in the country. You know. It's like we did

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Speaker 2: We did small things like play tag and play baseball,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we just did it as a small community.

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Speaker 2: Then you got to tighten their family because it's a

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Speaker 2: lot of older people that raised you. They cooked for you.

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Speaker 2: You know, you wash their cars like more, their yaards

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Speaker 2: and things. Because we was tightening. There was a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of love in the community.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Quincy, When you were younger,

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Speaker 1: what did you what did you want to do with

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Speaker 1: your life? What were your hopes and dreams?

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Speaker 2: Sports was my thing. I wanted to be a good

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Speaker 2: football player. That's what I wanted to do. I want

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Speaker 2: to go to college and play football and help the

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Speaker 2: older people in my community. Look up, you know, what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, and say he did something with his life,

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Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: So what was going on in your life in two thousand?

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Speaker 2: It was up and down. Two thousand was up and

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Speaker 2: down because matter of fact, we had just had my

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Speaker 2: grandmama's funeral on Mother's Day of ninety nine, and I

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Speaker 2: went through a spiral after that, you know, because that

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Speaker 2: was that was my heart.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by spiral? What did you what

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Speaker 1: was that like?

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Speaker 2: I got off in the drugs, basically got off in

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Speaker 2: the drugs and using the man telling them I was

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Speaker 2: doing both.

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Speaker 1: What kind of drugs? Okay, So wondering if before the

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Speaker 1: summer of two thousand did you have any run ins

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Speaker 1: with the law at all when you were selling drugs,

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Speaker 1: dealing drugs whatever it was.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was like small smile, petty client, like marijuana,

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Speaker 2: k you know, cocaine case some day wouldn't get you

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Speaker 2: no time, you know, some thirty day, ninety days, you know,

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Speaker 2: some smile like that.

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Speaker 1: So Quincy, that summer you were living in Union City, Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: just south of the border between Tennessee and Kentucky. But

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Speaker 1: the crime that you were ultimately convicted of occurred in Mayfield, Kentucky,

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Speaker 1: which is about thirty five minutes away by car. So, Mirinda,

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Speaker 1: can you tell us a bit about what Mayfield was

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Speaker 1: like in two thousands so listeners can kind of get

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Speaker 1: the feel for it.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 3: So, Mayfield, Kentucky was and still is a very small

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Speaker 3: town in rural western Kentucky, a very predominantly white community.

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Speaker 3: The black population and minority population live on one side

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Speaker 3: of town, where you know, the white population lives in another.

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Speaker 3: So the police and really the city government in Mayfield

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Speaker 3: has had a few scandals throughout its time. The one

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Speaker 3: that I think is most connected to this case would

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Speaker 3: be the assistant police chief, Ronnie Lear.

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Speaker 1: At the time of Quincy's drug arrest, Ronnie Lear had

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Speaker 1: already been under investigation for some time because of allegations

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Speaker 1: that he and some of the other police officers had

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Speaker 1: been selling confiscated drugs. Lear was later indicted for misconduct

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Speaker 1: charges after crack cocaine was found in his desk drawer.

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Speaker 3: He was fired essentially from the Mayfield Police department sometime

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Speaker 3: after this case occurred, and it appeared to be a

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Speaker 3: theory of the defense at the time of Quincy's trial.

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Speaker 3: Even in two thousand and eight that Ronnie Lear was

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Speaker 3: just a crooked cop and that this may have been

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Speaker 3: connected to it in some way.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So Quincy, can you tell me about the night

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Speaker 1: of July twenty ninth, two thousand. Who were you with

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Speaker 1: and how why did you wind up in Mayfield?

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Speaker 2: Were in Youngest City. We had a party set up.

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Speaker 2: We was planning the house up for this party, and uh,

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Speaker 2: Travis Jackson, Carlos, Saxton and Gregg store had pulled up.

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Speaker 2: So I've been knowing Travis before he could walk. So

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Speaker 2: he come down there looking for some drugs. So I

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Speaker 2: told him, you know, I could help him out.

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Speaker 1: Quincy, Travis, Carlos, and Greg drove around for a while

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Speaker 1: looking to score and picked up some drugs near his

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Speaker 1: hometown of Woodland Mills around nine point thirty. They stopped

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Speaker 1: at a liquor store, then headed back to Union City.

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Speaker 1: On the way, Travis suggested they head up to Kentucky.

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Speaker 1: He knew some folks that could sell to in Mayfield,

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Speaker 1: just over the state line.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, man, I don't know nobody in Kentucky. Man,

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Speaker 2: I want to go to Kentucky. He was like, come on, man,

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Speaker 2: if you go, we'll bring you back later on.

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Speaker 1: It took some convincing, but eventually Quincy agreed and they

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Speaker 1: headed up to Kentucky and the process to.

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Speaker 2: That we can hit these back so many these different

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Speaker 2: back roads to where I don't even know where we at.

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Speaker 2: We pop up in.

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Speaker 1: Mayfield around midnight. They ended up at a party on

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Speaker 1: Chris Drive, somewhere on the outskirts of town.

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Speaker 2: They got their girlfriends or whatever hanging out out there,

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Speaker 2: so we're selling drugs out there as all. I don't

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Speaker 2: know nobody out there.

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Speaker 1: I'll you here later on, a number of other people

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Speaker 1: who were involved in Quincy's case were alleged to have

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Speaker 1: been at this party on Chris Drive, including Carlos Saxton,

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Speaker 1: but the only one of them who was actually there

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Speaker 1: was Carlos. The night wore on and Quincy's friend showed

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Speaker 1: no sign of wanting to leave the party.

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Speaker 2: But I keep asking them to take me home. I'm like, man,

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Speaker 2: I'm ready to go home. So I've used the phone,

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Speaker 2: the hel home. I call him uponder them back in

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Speaker 2: Eystad it letting them know the I'm trying to get home,

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Speaker 2: and I know they waiting on me in you know.

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Speaker 1: By now, the sun was starting to come up. Quincy

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Speaker 1: was getting hungry, so he borrowed Greg's car to drive

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Speaker 1: into Mayfield to get something to eat, but he got

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Speaker 1: lost on the way downtown and ended up driving in

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Speaker 1: circles around the back roads. Finally, around seven in the morning,

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Speaker 1: he ran out of gas. Quincy found a gas can

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Speaker 1: in the trunk of the car and was about to

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Speaker 1: pour some into the tank when someone drove by and

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Speaker 1: stopped to help out. It happened to be the Mayfield

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Speaker 1: deputy jailer on his way to work.

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Speaker 2: This guy, he's standing right beside me, so he's seen

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Speaker 2: me drop a couple of drops of gas on my parents' lead.

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Speaker 2: But he's in the hairy to get to work because

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Speaker 2: he's late. So Stay Trooper with Mike Perkins pulled up.

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Speaker 2: So now he smelled the gas, but he gave me

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Speaker 2: a ride back to Chris Drive about a mile up

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Speaker 2: the street, and from now he dropped me off. And

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Speaker 2: then he said he went back to the car and

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Speaker 2: he's seeing marijuana, which was which was some some black

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Speaker 2: and mile and mile. It wasn't even marijuana, it was

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Speaker 2: black and male.

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Speaker 1: So you encountered Officer Perkins the morning of the thirtieth

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Speaker 1: and so when he found what he said was weed.

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Speaker 1: I know you said it was black and milds like,

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Speaker 1: which is like a cigar kind of thing. What happened

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Speaker 1: from there?

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Speaker 2: So he come back to the to the house asking

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Speaker 2: me if he can search a car, Tell him the

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Speaker 2: car ain't mine. Then I got two empty baggage in

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Speaker 2: my pocket that I meant to go away but day

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Speaker 2: in my pocket. And then Betty Kentucky two formed a

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Speaker 2: prayer for negi is automatic possession, So and two empty

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Speaker 2: baggies is what got me arrested.

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Speaker 1: In all, ten of the people at the Chris Drive

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Speaker 1: party were arrested that morning for drug possession, including Quincy.

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Speaker 1: He spent the next two years in the Kentucky Department

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Speaker 1: of Corrections as a result. So Miranda, this drug arrest

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Speaker 1: happened on the morning of July thirtieth. Meanwhile, a young

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Speaker 1: woman named Jessica Current had been seen at a different

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Speaker 1: gathering with friends the night before, and then she went missing.

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Speaker 1: Her body was found a few days later, on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: August first. So do we know what happened in the

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Speaker 1: time between.

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Speaker 3: The timeline is difficult to nail down, and we don't

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Speaker 3: have a time of death. Even a day of death

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Speaker 3: for Jessica, partly because of the mishandling of the crime

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Speaker 3: scene and the autopsy medical examination. So Saturday night, which

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Speaker 3: would have been July twenty ninth, was the night that

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Speaker 3: Jessica was last seen. So through looking at the witness interviews,

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Speaker 3: I have the most accurate account of her leaving a

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Speaker 3: small get together with her cousin Vnesiha around eleven o'clock

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Speaker 3: that night on Saturday.

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Speaker 1: And according to the witness statements, this was just a

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Speaker 1: few women playing cards at one of their friend's houses,

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with the party on Chris Drive.

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Speaker 3: So we know for certain that evening she was alive,

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Speaker 3: She was in Mayfield, and she left a small get

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Speaker 3: together at a friend's house. No one aside from Venetia

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Speaker 3: and Victoria Caldwell saw her anytime after eleven o'clock.

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Speaker 1: But Venetia and Victoria Caldwell were to become major players

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Speaker 1: in Quincy's case. We'll hear more about that later. By

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Speaker 1: Sunday afternoon, Jessica's parents, who were watching her baby son, Zion,

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Speaker 1: were concerned. It wasn't like Jessica to not be up

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Speaker 1: and ready for chure. They started calling around, but they

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Speaker 1: didn't find anyone who had seen her since the night before.

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Speaker 1: By Tuesday, August first, nearly three days after Jessica had

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Speaker 1: last been seen, her parents filed a missing person's report

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Speaker 1: with the Mayfield Police.

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Speaker 3: So as the missing person's report comes in, it's almost

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Speaker 3: at the exact same time that the call that this

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Speaker 3: body's been found behind the middle school comes in. So

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Speaker 3: the Mayfield Police dispatch out the Assistant Chief, Ronnie Lear,

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Speaker 3: and then the lead detective in this case, Tim Fortner.

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Speaker 1: Tim Fortner was a beat cop who had just been

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Speaker 1: promoted to lead detective. This was his first day on

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Speaker 1: the job. He'd never investigated a murder before, and the

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Speaker 1: investigation was disorganized from the start. So, Miranda, can you

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Speaker 1: describe the crime scene? What did the investigators find?

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Speaker 3: So, Jessica's body was found pretty severely decomposed and burned.

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Speaker 3: She did not have clothing on. It was pretty clear

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Speaker 3: she had a dress on and just most of it

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Speaker 3: was burned off of the top, but there were pieces

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Speaker 3: of it underneath of her body. Her shoes were found

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Speaker 3: at the scene, but they weren't on her feet. She

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Speaker 3: had some jewelry on that was not burned off, and

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Speaker 3: that was actually how her mother identified from photos of

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Speaker 3: the jewelry that she was wearing.

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Speaker 1: Was there anything else found at the scene that they

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Speaker 1: thought was significant.

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Speaker 3: The majority of the items that they attempted to test

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Speaker 3: or to look for evidence on were just so badly burned.

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Speaker 3: The fire had basically burned out, so there was very

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Speaker 3: little left at the crime scene that wasn't you know, charred.

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Speaker 3: And then additionally, they decided at autopsy they wouldn't keep

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Speaker 3: her clothing and they said it was too badly burned.

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Speaker 3: There was a small piece of a braided belp found

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Speaker 3: pretty close to the body. I mean a guess is

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Speaker 3: about two to four inches long. It's not on her,

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Speaker 3: but it is in the grass next to her, and

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Speaker 3: it does have a buckle still attached to it. So

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Speaker 3: those were collected and still remain in evidence.

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Speaker 1: So there were two things that were later alleged to

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Speaker 1: connect Quincy to the crime. First the fragment of braided

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Speaker 1: belt and buckle, even though that style of belt was

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Speaker 1: common at the time. And second, the fact that the

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Speaker 1: body had been found partially burned, coupled with the smell

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Speaker 1: of gasoline that had spilled on Quincy's pants.

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Speaker 3: There was definitely an accelerant used and the police follow

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Speaker 3: the assumption that it was gasoline and they connected that

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Speaker 3: just by the word gasoline to Quincy, who was found

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Speaker 3: that next morning pouring gas out of a gas can

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Speaker 3: into the car that had no gasoline in it. The

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Speaker 3: deputy jailer saw that happen. He actually watched Quincy dump

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Speaker 3: the gas on himself and down the side of the car,

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Speaker 3: and that's why he pulled over and asked him for help.

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Speaker 1: While the police were attempting to collect evidence, the crime

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Speaker 1: scene was getting more and more chaotic.

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Speaker 3: Are really starting to show up at the middle school

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Speaker 3: where they put tape up. It still wasn't a super

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Speaker 3: secure scene. In looking at the video that they made

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Speaker 3: that day, people are really coming and going.

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Speaker 1: And one of those people was a local housewife named

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Speaker 1: Susan Galbreath.

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Speaker 3: She describes herself as an overweight stay at home why though,

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Speaker 3: who solved a crime? So Susan Gaalbrith was at the

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Speaker 3: scene the day Jessica's body was discovered. From her own writings,

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Speaker 3: she says that she was at a diner in downtown

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Speaker 3: Mayfield having breakfaster lunch and that she felt a higher

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Speaker 3: power calling her to the middle school because she felt

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00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,280
Speaker 3: that there was a tragedy there, so she becomes essentially

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Speaker 3: obsessed with this case.

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Speaker 1: Tim Fortner headed up the Mayfield Police investigation, working with

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Speaker 1: the Kentucky State Police. Initially, the authorities had two main suspects,

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Speaker 1: both of whom were arrested in two thousand and one.

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Speaker 1: One was Carlos Sack, one of the guys who had

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Speaker 1: been to the Chris Drive party along with Quincy and

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Speaker 1: who had been dating the victim, Jessica Currn around that time.

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Speaker 1: The other was Jeremy Adams, the father of Jessica's son.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy's mother was a close friend of Susan Goalbreth's, so.

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Speaker 3: Once Jeremy's arrested, Susan Galbrath turns into kind of a

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Speaker 3: private sleuth, wanting to put the case together and figure

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Speaker 3: it out. So she's I mean, she's deeply involved and

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Speaker 3: very intertwined in the story, to the point she's almost

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Speaker 3: acting as a fourth investigating agency, you know, alongside the

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Speaker 3: city police, the State Police, and the Bureau of Investigation.

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Speaker 1: And Susan was getting inside information from one of the

300
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Speaker 1: State Police investigators on the case.

301
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Speaker 3: That was Jamie Mills. They were exchanging information pretty freely.

302
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Speaker 3: So Jamie was actually giving this private citizen that wanted

303
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Speaker 3: to solve this crime information.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to Jamie and her other connections, Susan had access

305
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Speaker 1: to not only the police files, but also to Jeremy

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00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,120
Speaker 1: Adams's entire attorney file. And in one of the police

307
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,600
Speaker 1: files there was a mention of the drug arrest on

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Speaker 1: Chris Drive.

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Speaker 3: There is a notation in Quincy's file about him being

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Speaker 3: booked in and him smelling like gas, and I think

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00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,600
Speaker 3: she starts to weave the stories together. I believe that

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Speaker 3: that's why she started turning to Quincy. He was pretty

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Speaker 3: easy Mark as well. He was an outsider, which I

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Speaker 3: think is incredibly important to this case. He was not

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00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,040
Speaker 3: from Mayfield, he had very few ties to Mayfield. It

316
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,360
Speaker 3: was easy to point the finger at him because he

317
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,800
Speaker 3: was kind of a nameless, faceless person that was not

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Speaker 3: her best friend's son.

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Speaker 1: So, Quincy, when did you first hear the name Jessica Currn?

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Speaker 2: First time I ever heard her name, I was locked up.

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Speaker 2: I was already locked up. We was in the back

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Speaker 2: of the jail and we ve bought a newspaper backer.

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Speaker 2: So he found the body, a body behind the school.

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Speaker 2: I was like, man, that's bad man. How they did her?

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Speaker 1: Man?

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Speaker 2: Somebody? Ye, they need to convict somebody.

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Speaker 1: While Quincy was still incarcerat in Mayfield on the drug charge,

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Speaker 1: he became acquainted with Tamra Caldwell, the sister of a

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Speaker 1: fellow prisoner. After his release in October of two thousand

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Speaker 1: and two, he began seeing Tamra and eventually moved in

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Speaker 1: with her in Mayfield. Tamra was the cousin of Victoria Caldwell. Then,

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Speaker 1: in February of two thousand and three, the two suspects,

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Speaker 1: Jeremy Adams and Carlos Saxton, both had their indictments dismissed

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Speaker 1: because of discovery violations by the Mayfield Police Department and

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Speaker 1: the local prosecutor. Although they had not been excluded from suspicion,

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00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,119
Speaker 1: it was the police and prosecutor not responding to discovery

337
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,760
Speaker 1: requests from their attorneys that led to their release. The

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Speaker 1: case went cold for a few years before it was

339
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,800
Speaker 1: eventually picked up by the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation or KVII. Meanwhile,

340
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,480
Speaker 1: Susan Galbreath was still hard at work on her citizen's investigation.

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Speaker 1: She had teamed up with a TV documentary production company

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Speaker 1: and was still being fed information by Jamie Mills. She

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Speaker 1: had also started a MySpace page of the case, publicly

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Speaker 1: calling out some people she thought were involved, including Quincy Cross,

345
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,359
Speaker 1: which is how she drew the attention of Victoria Caldwell.

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Speaker 1: Victoria told Susan Golbreath that she knew who had killed

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Speaker 1: Jessica because she had been there when it happened. Victoria

348
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Speaker 1: and Venetia had never met Quincy until he began seeing

349
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Speaker 1: Tamra in two thousand and two. Yet the pair wove

350
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 1: a bizarre story that implicated Quincy, Tamra, and an acquaintance

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Speaker 1: named Jeffrey Burton, and that ultimately became the basis of

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Speaker 1: the States case against Quincy.

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Speaker 3: So the ultimate theory that gets presented at trial by

354
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:46,520
Speaker 3: Victoria and Venetia is that they were walking around in Mayfield, Victoria,

355
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Speaker 3: Venetia and Jessica and that a car picked them up.

356
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Speaker 3: The car changes, the driver changes constantly. It's very hard

357
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Speaker 3: to pinpoint who this was supposed to be in the car.

358
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Speaker 3: It's supposed to be jeff Tamara, Quincy, Victoria, Venetia and Jessica,

359
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,119
Speaker 3: and that Quincy was like making advances on Jessica and

360
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 3: she was not wanting those advances, they end up at

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Speaker 3: the party at Chris Drive.

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Speaker 1: According to witnesses from the party, none of these people

363
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 1: were ever at the Chris Drive party except for Quincy

364
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Speaker 1: and Carlos, who had driven up together from Tennessee. Yet

365
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 1: at some point Victoria and Venetia folded Carlos into their

366
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 1: own narrative. Since those two were the people last seen

367
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 1: with Jessica, and since Carlos was seeing her at the

368
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,680
Speaker 1: time and was a suspect in her murder, all three

369
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 1: of them had every motive to deflect suspicion from themselves,

370
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,560
Speaker 1: which is likely how their stories ended up merging together.

371
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 1: Carlos Saxon later testified at the trial that at the party,

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Speaker 1: Quincy was seen swinging a brown braided leather belt around

373
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Speaker 1: like a rodeo writer, but this fact could have been

374
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,119
Speaker 1: fed to him by the investigators to account for the

375
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 1: charred fragment belt found near Jessica's body and to fabricate

376
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 1: another connection between Quincy and Jessica. Victoria and Venicia's stories

377
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 1: get more outlandish from there.

378
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 3: Somehow they get from Chris Drive to Jeffrey Burton's house

379
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 3: back into town, and when they got there Quincy knocked

380
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 3: Jessica out in the car, they carried her body in.

381
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,199
Speaker 3: She was still alive, but they carried her body in,

382
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,239
Speaker 3: put her in Jeffrey's bedroom, and they essentially had an

383
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,119
Speaker 3: orgy where everyone was kind of coming and going in

384
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,439
Speaker 3: and out of this bedroom while Jessica was coming in

385
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 3: and out of consciousness on the bed. Then they say

386
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 3: that some time after that, after she woke back up,

387
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 3: that Quincy hit her in the head. Again, they almost

388
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 3: exclusively say it's with a baseball bat, like a miniature

389
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 3: souvenir baseball bat, until they can't find the baseball bat

390
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 3: and they find something else.

391
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 1: According to Victoria, she had buried the bat in her

392
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 1: sister of Rosy Christ's backyard, but when they searched the backyard,

393
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: the investigators could not find it. Instead, they uncovered an old,

394
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 1: rusty ratchet, and at that point Victoria's story suddenly changed.

395
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 3: And she says, Oh, it wasn't a bat, it was

396
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 3: a tool that makes a clicky noise. And they collect

397
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,439
Speaker 3: the item and there's literally no evidence on it, nothing

398
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 3: that connects to the crime at all whatsoever.

399
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: Nevertheless, that item later showed up as evidence at trial.

400
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 3: Victoria gets on the stand and says it's the murder weapon.

401
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,640
Speaker 3: I buried it in the backyard along with some clothing.

402
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 3: And they never find the clothing. They never find the

403
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 3: baseball bat. They only find this ratchet, and it becomes

404
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 3: a key piece of evidence against Quincy.

405
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 1: So, without a physical connection to the crime, and despite

406
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 1: the cause of death being undetermined at autopsy, this ratchet

407
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,719
Speaker 1: was alleged to be the murder weapon based solely on

408
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: Victoria's word. The theory became that Quincy had allegedly hit

409
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: Jessica repeatedly in the head with not a bat but

410
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 1: this ratchet, and Victoria and Venetia's absurd tail continues after

411
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: Quincy supposedly delivered the final blow.

412
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 3: They say that that final blow is what killed her,

413
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 3: and that they continued to have this orgy after she

414
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 3: had passed away, where Quincy forced everyone to perform sex

415
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 3: acts on Jessica after she had passed away. From there,

416
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 3: they say that morning broke they took her body and

417
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,479
Speaker 3: put it in the garage, wrapped in a blanket and

418
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 3: just left it there for a few days, and it

419
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 3: wasn't until a smell started occurring that they decided they

420
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 3: were going to move the body to the middle school.

421
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 1: Where it was found the following Tuesday morning, August first,

422
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 1: and autopsy was performed on Jessica's body, but as with

423
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 1: most of the investigation, it was badly botched and inconclusive.

424
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: Because the body was so badly decomposed and burned, the

425
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: medical examiner was unable to determine when or how she died.

426
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 1: In addition, items of her clothing had been discarded, and

427
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: no one thought to save a sample of her DNA

428
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: to potentially compare it with profiles found on other crime

429
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: scene evidence. So in two thousand and five, Jessica's body

430
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: was exhumed and re examined. Kentucky State Police hoped that

431
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 1: DNA samples would corroborate her alleged connection with Quincy, who

432
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: is by now their main suspect.

433
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 3: One of the main pieces of evidence that they were

434
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 3: looking for was something that would have her DNA sample

435
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 3: in it. They had all of these items from the

436
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 3: crime scene that they wanted to use to connect Jessica

437
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: and Quincy together. They tried very hard, and they were

438
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 3: never able to do that.

439
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Susan Golbreath continued with her campaign to throw suspicion

440
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: off her best friend's son, Jeremy Adams, and onto someone else.

441
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: And by two thousand and seven, thanks to her citizen

442
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 1: detective theories, the weak threads of circumstantial evidence being used

443
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 1: to connect with the crime scene, combined with Victoria and

444
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: Venetia's absurd narrative, the state believed that they had enough

445
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: to make an arrest. By then, Quincy was living with

446
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: a woman named Melissa, who had two young boys. One night,

447
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: he and Melissa were lying in bed watching television.

448
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 2: In my face pop up own the news, said the

449
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 2: news won I'm considered armed in dangers, so the first

450
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 2: thing I think about is in keyds. So she gave

451
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 2: me a look like, Babe, what you gonna do? I said,

452
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get him up out of here because I

453
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 2: don't want to know bringing no girls up here, what

454
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 2: he's keezing.

455
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: Quincy's friends and family immediately started calling, urging him to

456
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 1: get out of town. One friend offered to drive him

457
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 1: to California, another to Mississippi, but Quincy didn't want to

458
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: go on the run. He went to his dad's house

459
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: to find the police had already been there looking for him.

460
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 2: So I tell my dad, I'm like looke man, I'm

461
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 2: great telling myself he and haig Ma Kentucky, because I

462
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: ain't gonna do no run because I ain't need nothing.

463
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 2: But they got me considered armed in dangers. I know

464
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: they won't try to kill me. I think that they

465
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: wanted me dead so they can try to er up

466
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 2: and close his case, so they can just say, well,

467
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 2: we got the person that did and he's dead. And

468
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: you know that's what I think. So these these guys

469
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 2: from the so cappin Tucky brew up investigation on Lee

470
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 2: Wise and O'Neill come to take me up from the

471
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: from the Apeman County jail and they take me to

472
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 2: a hotel room at the Duka and then Terry gave

473
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: me the whole time from about from about leave them

474
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: that twelve that night till about sixty seven that morning.

475
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 2: When I keep telling them to take me to the jail, man,

476
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 2: I don't want to talk to y'all. Take me to

477
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 2: the jail.

478
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: Did you ask for a lawyer, Quincy, I did ask

479
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: for a lawyer twice, and they never gave you a lawyer.

480
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 2: Never. They never even act like they heard me say

481
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: that They had just told me that I was arrested anyway,

482
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 2: they were telling me I was arrested for the murder

483
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: of Jessica Karring.

484
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: From the time that Jessica's body was found in two

485
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: thousand until Quincy was arrested in two thousand and seven,

486
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: the case went through several different investigations and a mind

487
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: boggling number of suspects. We don't have time to go

488
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: into all of that, but let's take a moment for

489
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 1: a little recap. So the case was investigated first by

490
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: the Mayfield Police Department, resulting in the arrest of Jeremy

491
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: Adams and Carlos Saxton. After their charges were dropped due

492
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: to discovery violations. Neither suspect was ever recharged or went

493
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: to trial. When Susan Golbreth got involved, working with Jamie

494
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: Mills and the Kentucky State Police, she was the one

495
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: who pushed Quincy forward to the exclusion of Jeremy and Carlos,

496
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: as well as several alternate suspects. Then the KBI picked

497
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,959
Speaker 1: up the case, using Victoria and Venetia to solidify their

498
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: theory of the crime. This led them to Quincy, Tamra,

499
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: and Jeffrey, who were all charged with kidnapping, rape, murder

500
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: and abuse of a corpse.

501
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,239
Speaker 3: The prosecution's theory wasn't super clear. When you look at

502
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 3: this case. There are four different investigations that end in

503
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 3: four different outcomes with four different defendants, and so I

504
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 3: see why it was very difficult for them to figure out,

505
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 3: how are they actually going to try him for this

506
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 3: murder and let alone get a conviction.

507
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 1: Nevertheless, the trial began in March two thousand.

508
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,479
Speaker 3: And eight, So for a capital murder case to go

509
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 3: to trial in less than one year is to me

510
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 3: unheard of. I don't see how anyone could be prepared

511
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 3: to go to a capital trial in one year, especially

512
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 3: in light of the massive amounts of discovery that the

513
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 3: prosecution was dumping on them continually.

514
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: The state, led by Special Prosecutor Barbara Wailey, built its

515
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: case largely around the outlandish and inconsistent stories told by

516
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: Victoria and Venetia. Both women had pleaded guilty to corpse

517
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: abuse and evidence tampering, but as the prosecution star witnesses,

518
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: their sentencing was delayed until after they had testified in

519
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,719
Speaker 1: Quincy's trial. After telling their stories in front of the jury,

520
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: Victoria Caldwell was sentenced to five years, but ultimately served

521
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: just under three months. Venisia's Doublefield got a total of

522
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: seven years, but ended up serving only six months. Along

523
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: with their trial testimonies, which was the only direct evidence

524
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: against Quincy, the state presented a diary that Victoria had

525
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: supposedly written during the time of the murder, in which

526
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: she implicated Quincy.

527
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 3: So this diary is supposed to be a document that

528
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 3: helps lend some truthfulness to the story that Victoria and

529
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 3: Venicia come up with. One of the entries essentially says

530
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 3: they found Jessica's body, Oh my god, what am I

531
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 3: going to do? And she says the phrase Q is

532
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 3: nowhere to be found.

533
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: Which is really odd. Remember, according to Quincy, Victoria did

534
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: not know him in two thousand. They didn't meet until

535
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: over a year later when Quincy was dating her cousin Tamra.

536
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,719
Speaker 1: The prosecution also presented testimony from the medical examiner who

537
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,959
Speaker 1: had performed the autopsy. Despite the burnt and decomposed condition

538
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: of the body, he said that he believed the cause

539
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: of death could possibly have been either strangulation or blunt

540
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: force trauma, but his theory appeared to be based more

541
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: on the evidence presented by the prosecution the piece of

542
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: belts and the story about the ratchet than on actual

543
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: medical evidence. In defense, Quincy's attorney Vince Eustace brought up

544
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: the former Chief Medical Examiner, doctor George Nichols as an

545
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: expert witness, but his testimony was also inconclusive.

546
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 3: He essentially was just a witness to say they truly

547
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 3: can't say when this crime occurred. They can speculate as

548
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 3: to strangulation, they can speculate as to blunt force trauma,

549
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 3: but because of the decomposition the bach medical exam, together

550
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 3: with just the condition of the body, they absolutely, with

551
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 3: certainty cannot tell you that this occurred here in this

552
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 3: way or that this was what actually caused her death.

553
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: There was no medical evidence that Jessica had even been raped.

554
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 3: There was no semen found anywhere, there was any any

555
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 3: other evidence of sexual assault. Maybe because it didn't happen,

556
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 3: maybe because of the fire, but we just certainly do

557
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 3: not know it.

558
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: Carlo Saxon testified about seeing Quincy swinging the belt around

559
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: at the Chris Drive party, and Victoria's sister Rosie Christ

560
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: took the stand for the prosecution to answer questions about

561
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: the ratchet found in her backyard.

562
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 3: She's very quiet. She answers yes and no, she doesn't

563
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 3: say too much. She's a prosecution witness, but not super cooperative.

564
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: And in fact, Rosie later returned to the stand to

565
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: testify for the defense, recanting her previous testimony.

566
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 3: Saying, they threatened me. They said they'd take my kids away,

567
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 3: I would go to prison for murder, and then they

568
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 3: paid me money to do it. And it really just

569
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: falls on deaf years and it gives us a little

570
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 3: bit of insight into exactly how the prosecutors and police

571
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: were treating the witnesses in this case, with their threats

572
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 3: and with their payments. And that was essentially the case.

573
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 3: Quincy did not testify. They they did very little to

574
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 3: cut it Victoria and Venetia's story, and it just at

575
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 3: the end of the day, I don't think it swayed

576
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 3: the jury. It wasn't enough to show that what they

577
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: were saying was a lie and that it was a

578
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 3: provable Ee.

579
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: Here's a question, Quincy. Didn't you have an alibi for

580
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: the time she was killed?

581
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. My lawyer never used it. I was

582
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: on Cruze Draft. I never left christ Draft that night,

583
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: and everybody in the house they continue I never left

584
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 2: that house till the song.

585
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: Came up, and then from Sunday morning on you were

586
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: in the Mayfield Jail for weed possession correct accord.

587
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 2: So the records, that's what it say is I was

588
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 2: already locked up the first time I heard Justica's name,

589
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 2: I was locked up.

590
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: I think some people might hear this, you didn't know Jessica,

591
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: you don't even know your co defendants, and some people

592
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: might just feel like, how did this happen?

593
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,479
Speaker 2: I still wanted that, but I know how I know

594
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: now that I've been in concrated, you see a whole

595
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: lot of things that don't happen nowhere else but Kentucky

596
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: and West Kentucky.

597
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: Here.

598
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: As long as I've been going through from penitentiary to

599
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 2: the penitentiary, I've been letting other people look at my paperwork,

600
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: and they asked me the same thing, like, bro, how

601
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 2: had you even loked up? Like how you locked up?

602
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: And I'm like, man, I can't even explain it because

603
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 2: I don't even know. I don't know how I'm locked up.

604
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: So when you're at trial Quincy, it's wrapping up, they're

605
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: given closing statements, and then you you hear you're convicted.

606
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: I cried, man, I cried with my dad and I

607
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 2: kept telling my daddy, these people gonna have to audacity

608
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: to ask me to lie on camera. And Jeffrey, they

609
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 2: came to me with a deal. They came, they came

610
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: to me with a deal, a fifteen year deal. I

611
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 2: just told my do that I ain't that type because

612
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: because I know they innocent. The reason I know they're

613
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: innocent because I know I'm innocent. So I didn't I

614
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: didn't even ask him what they wanted me to say,

615
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: none of that, because I ain't that type of person.

616
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: So you were like, I will take a life sentence.

617
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie about these people.

618
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: Right, You're exactly right, I will, And that's what I did.

619
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: Tamra and Jeffrey both took Alfred please and were given

620
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: ten and fifteen years, respectively, but Quincy refused to plead out,

621
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: and on May twenty first, two thousand and eight, he

622
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: was convicted of capital kidnapping, capital murder, rape, sodomy, and

623
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: abuse of a corpse. He was sentenced to life without

624
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: the possibility of parole.

625
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 2: They rushed me, stayed out of the court room. They

626
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: had a brace that a locked my leg because because

627
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 2: they thought I was gonna run. As soon as the

628
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 2: first person said guilty, I didn't even.

629
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 4: Hear what all the charges were they used. They rushed

630
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 4: me about the court room.

631
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 2: M hm. I was very very angry, very very angry.

632
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 2: It's just what can I do but make my own

633
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 2: time hard? Understand what I'm saying, because there was a

634
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: lot of different things going through my brain. But I

635
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: don't want to react to make everything harder than it was. Man,

636
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 2: it's it's it's it's it's hell for real, and every

637
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: in every aspect, any any any person that you can

638
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 2: think of, that's in hell. I'm surrounded by them every day.

639
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: But just imagine that. Imagine being innocent and going through

640
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: that though, imagine being an innocent person going through the

641
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 2: same going through hell. So now you got to adjust

642
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 2: to it. I have to adjust to it. So now

643
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 2: I have to raise the little hell of my fail

644
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 2: in order to so for other people not to bother me.

645
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 2: I have to regular hell of my fail because you

646
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 2: got to adapt to it. If you don't adapt to it,

647
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 2: you know, you become a man of mouth. At that period,

648
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 2: ain't nothing between in my world.

649
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: Over the next ten years, Quincy filed a number of

650
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: appeals with the trial court and with the Kentucky Supreme Court.

651
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: All were denied, and then in twenty eleven, he received

652
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: a letter from an unlikely source, Jessica's father, Joe Curran.

653
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: That he sent a message to me and told me

654
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 2: to write him a letter about how I was feeling

655
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 2: about everything that I was going through if he wanted

656
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 2: to get with me, and he wanted to get a

657
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: better understanding about you know, what I'm going through and

658
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 2: what I feel, because he knows that I'm innacing and

659
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 2: he seemed the facts of the case, and he knew

660
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: that I didn't have nothing to do with it. Because

661
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 2: you want to the actual person that murdered his daughter

662
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 2: in prison, I will want him too. I want to

663
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 2: know who did it. I'm paid for it, but it

664
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 2: is it's gonna haunt me for my grave if I

665
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: don't find that.

666
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: And Joe has continued to believe in Quincy's innocence and

667
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: to advocate for his release.

668
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a win for me though by myself. That's

669
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: just from the outside, from the inside looking out, that's

670
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: a win right there. Period. So so that means he

671
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 2: knows everything that I know understand what I'm saying.

672
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 1: And Joe Curran wasn't the only one who believed in Quincy.

673
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: The Kentucky Innocence Project had started to work on his

674
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: case in twenty thirteen, but unfortunately they had to shelve

675
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: it a few years later due to funding concerns. Then,

676
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, Miranda Hellman joined the Kentucky Innocence Project,

677
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: right around the time that the country found itself in

678
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: the grip of a worldwide pandemic.

679
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 3: As COVID was hitting. I didn't have much else to do,

680
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 3: so I just started going through old dusty box and

681
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 3: I found this massive case. It had fourteen eighteen boxes

682
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 3: sitting on a shelf. It was very messy, it was

683
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 3: not in any order. I couldn't tell what I even

684
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 3: had to look at. So I started digging, and I

685
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 3: think probably from the first thirty minutes and looking in

686
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 3: the box and reading these memos from past staff, I

687
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 3: knew there was something to it.

688
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: So the KIP team began seeking out documents on the case.

689
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 3: It took us well over a year to get state

690
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 3: police documents and start to try to locate evidence. The

691
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 3: high profile nature of this case and the massive amount

692
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 3: of very well known and high ranking people that were

693
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 3: involved in it, from the investigation, through the prosecution, even

694
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 3: into the post conviction litigation made it very difficult for

695
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 3: us to get anything. So we fought for about a

696
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 3: year and a half to get records, and it's taken

697
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 3: about two and a half years just to try to

698
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 3: lay my eyes on the majority of what we have.

699
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 3: The prosecution did what I would call in civil litigation

700
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 3: and a document dump, where they bury you in boxes

701
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 3: and boxes of paperwork so you can never get through it.

702
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 3: So we have about forty thousand pages of discovery from

703
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 3: the trial attorney file that we still to this day.

704
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 3: I go through every day just trying to pull out

705
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 3: what I think that we're going to need for post

706
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 3: conviction litigation.

707
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: One detail that caught their attention right away was the

708
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: sketchy history behind Victoria's diary.

709
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 3: So Victoria told the KBI officers that she kept diaries.

710
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: Her whole life.

711
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,479
Speaker 3: She wrote in them every day, and she kept every

712
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 3: single diary she ever wrote. So supposedly KBI found parts

713
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 3: of these diaries in the trash can behind her apartment

714
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 3: that she was living in in California. It's a spiral

715
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 3: bound notebook written in a combination of pencil and blue ink.

716
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 3: They're dated in two thousand, and they only give eleven

717
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 3: pages of this time period exactly when the crime happens,

718
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 3: late July to early August of two thousand, so she

719
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 3: dates these as two thousand, but there is one entry

720
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 3: that looks as if it was two thousand and one

721
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 3: or two thousand and seven that she goes back and

722
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 3: fixes and puts a zero over it.

723
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: It turns out that prior to trial, the prosecution sent

724
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,919
Speaker 1: the diaries to the Secret Service in Washington, DC for analysis.

725
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,439
Speaker 3: So the Secret Service comes back and says, we don't

726
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 3: have this ink in our library. So that means either

727
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 3: it's a really rare ink that we just have never collected,

728
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 3: or it's so new we haven't collected it yet.

729
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: So it's not likely to be an ink that could

730
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: have been used in a two thousand diary entry. Yet,

731
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: despite its dubious authenticity, the diary was presented at trial

732
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: as evidence that Quincy was with Victoria and the others

733
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: that night.

734
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 3: So in post conviction, a motion that will be filed

735
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,439
Speaker 3: is a request of a reanalysis of that ink, either

736
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 3: by the Secret Service or by a private lab.

737
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: So we mentioned the diary. Is there anything else, you know,

738
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: points that you guys are making out of these forty

739
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,240
Speaker 1: thousand pages that you've read.

740
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 3: Well, somehow forty thousand pages didn't even tell the whole story.

741
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 3: So since I've come onto the case over the last year,

742
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 3: we've been able to obtain new documents that weren't part

743
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 3: of the original discovery or part of the initial investigation.

744
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 3: A lot of that is centered around Susan Galbrath. She

745
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 3: was communicating quite a bit with TV producers, friends, family,

746
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 3: and now we have those written documents so we can

747
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 3: really show this missing piece. This investigation wasn't what it

748
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 3: looked like, and here's why it ended up where it

749
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,720
Speaker 3: ended up. She was the person who put Quincy Cross

750
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 3: in prison. She's the person who handed the police their theory,

751
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 3: their investigation, and their star witnesses who had been prepped

752
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 3: and paid to give the testimony she wanted them to give.

753
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 1: So Rosie Christ wasn't the only witness who was being

754
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: paid for testimony.

755
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 3: Both Victoria and Venisia received money from the KBI out

756
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 3: of a state fund that is set aside for witness protection,

757
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:07,439
Speaker 3: and Victoria was moved from California to North Carolina. Her

758
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 3: living expenses were paid for about a year, and then

759
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 3: she was brought back to Kentucky and basically traveled all

760
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 3: on the dime of the state. She had told many people,

761
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 3: including her sister and Venetia that all testified that she

762
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 3: had said this, that they could make money by giving

763
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 3: these statements. So the combination of this payment to witnesses

764
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 3: how Susan was moving behind the scenes. We also have

765
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: a couple pieces of forensic evidence that could be tested

766
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 3: today that were never tested at the time of trial.

767
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 3: So that includes some items found at the crime scene,

768
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 3: some cigarette butts, a drink bottle that may or may

769
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 3: not have had accelerant in it. But until we find

770
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 3: out if there's a DNA profile on any of these

771
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 3: items that were found with her body, we really can't

772
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 3: say for certain. So much like asking for the release

773
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 3: of the diary, we're going to ask for really of

774
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 3: items of evidence to do some DNA testing.

775
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: Miranda and the KIP team are hopeful that all of

776
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: the new evidence and information they're now presenting will spur

777
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 1: the courts to take a look at what the jury

778
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: never got to see.

779
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 3: And that really is going to be the beginning of

780
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 3: a new chapter of litigation for Quincy.

781
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: So meanwhile, for listeners who want to know what can

782
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: they do to.

783
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 3: Help, there are a few petitions online that all support

784
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 3: Quincy's innocence and call officials to review the case, including

785
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 3: the governor and the Attorney General. I would strongly suggest

786
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 3: anyone who wants more information about the case look at

787
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 3: those petitions. The information that's been given.

788
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: Awesome, so we will link to those in the bio

789
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: so listeners can find them and also follow the case

790
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: for any updates. So now is the part of the

791
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: show we call closing arguments. I want to thank both

792
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: of you guys for joining us. Quincy, thank you so

793
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: much for sharing your story and Miranda for being here

794
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: helping out to tell it. And we'd just like to

795
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: ask your final thoughts, any takeaways, anything that you want

796
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: to share with listeners. Miranda, do you want to start

797
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: off and then we'll let Quincy finish.

798
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 3: Quincy's case and the murder of Jessica Kurrn are some

799
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 3: of the worst examples of official misconduct that I have

800
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 3: seen in any innocence cases that I've worked on. I

801
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 3: think that what is so unique about his case is

802
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,439
Speaker 3: the long investigation, the many people involved in the investigation,

803
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 3: and the mishandling by an ept and untrained police officers

804
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 3: that led to his arrest and ultimate conviction.

805
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: And Quincy, what about you? What do you want to

806
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: say to listeners?

807
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 2: Want? I want them to know another I'm innocent person,

808
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 2: you know, And I want them to look at the

809
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 2: bag that again. I want them to look at everything

810
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 2: everything about this case. And that's what I want the

811
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: world to be know. I've been through I don't been

812
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 2: through some heal trying to get the truth out, and

813
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 2: now that I got the opportunity to get it out,

814
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: it makes everything a whole lot better. Yeah, it makes

815
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 2: everything a whole lot better for me. That's what I

816
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 2: want the world to know. That I'm a bad and

817
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: plus I'm a better person. Believe it or not, for

818
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: a prison made me a better person. I have a

819
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 2: whole lot of love in my heart. That's that's the

820
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 2: biggest thing I want to know.

821
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen

822
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 1: to this and all Lava for Good podcast one week

823
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

824
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank executive producers Jason Flumm, Jeff Kempler,

825
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,720
Speaker 1: and Kevin Wurtis for inviting me to sit in today,

826
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: and thanks to our production team Connor hall Andy, Chelsea,

827
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 1: Lela Robinson and Kathleen Fink. The music in this production

828
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

829
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us across all social media platforms

830
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can

831
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: also follow me on all platforms at maggie Freelink. Wrongful

832
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in

833
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one