1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:18,236 --> 00:00:21,876 Speaker 2: Hey, Hey, revisionist history listeners, It's finally happening. One of 3 00:00:21,916 --> 00:00:25,036 Speaker 2: the most exciting projects I've ever been part of at 4 00:00:25,076 --> 00:00:29,076 Speaker 2: Pushkin our collaboration with Barack Obama on the story of 5 00:00:29,116 --> 00:00:33,436 Speaker 2: one of the most consequential and overlooked periods in American history, 6 00:00:33,996 --> 00:00:37,756 Speaker 2: the years after the Civil War, known as Reconstruction, when 7 00:00:38,116 --> 00:00:42,636 Speaker 2: after tearing itself apart over slavery, the United States tried 8 00:00:42,636 --> 00:00:46,236 Speaker 2: to put itself back together. It's easily one of the 9 00:00:46,236 --> 00:00:49,596 Speaker 2: most traumatic eras in American history. The South is a 10 00:00:49,636 --> 00:00:53,476 Speaker 2: smoking ruin, consumed by violence and chaos in the aftermath 11 00:00:53,516 --> 00:00:55,796 Speaker 2: of the war. There are millions of people in the 12 00:00:55,836 --> 00:00:58,996 Speaker 2: South who just a few years before were treated as property, 13 00:00:59,516 --> 00:01:02,956 Speaker 2: who are now asking to be treated as people. The politics, 14 00:01:03,116 --> 00:01:06,356 Speaker 2: the economics, the morality of the Republic is up in 15 00:01:06,396 --> 00:01:09,596 Speaker 2: the air, and Reconstruction is the time when the country 16 00:01:09,596 --> 00:01:14,956 Speaker 2: struggles to meet those challenges and both succeeds and spectacularly 17 00:01:15,276 --> 00:01:19,236 Speaker 2: fails in ways that would have consequences for the next 18 00:01:19,276 --> 00:01:23,476 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty years. The series is called Reconstruction 19 00:01:23,836 --> 00:01:27,516 Speaker 2: The Unfinished Promise, an eight part podcast hosted by me 20 00:01:27,956 --> 00:01:31,476 Speaker 2: in collaboration with Barack Obama. I'm going to play the 21 00:01:31,476 --> 00:01:34,116 Speaker 2: first episode for you now. You can find the rest 22 00:01:34,116 --> 00:01:38,516 Speaker 2: of the series on Audible or wherever you get podcasts. 23 00:01:39,996 --> 00:01:40,636 Speaker 2: After the War. 24 00:01:44,236 --> 00:01:48,356 Speaker 3: Douglas is such a fascinating character. 25 00:01:49,676 --> 00:01:54,676 Speaker 2: Frederick Douglas perhaps America's most famous abolitionist leader, a person 26 00:01:54,756 --> 00:01:57,636 Speaker 2: who is a child escaped from slavery, who went on 27 00:01:57,716 --> 00:02:01,196 Speaker 2: to become a global spokesperson for freedom. When I sat 28 00:02:01,236 --> 00:02:04,276 Speaker 2: down with President Barack Obama, he really wanted to talk 29 00:02:04,276 --> 00:02:06,156 Speaker 2: about this larger than life man. 30 00:02:07,036 --> 00:02:20,276 Speaker 3: Douglas is constantly battling between a desperate belief that the 31 00:02:20,356 --> 00:02:26,396 Speaker 3: better angels of our nature will win out. He has 32 00:02:26,516 --> 00:02:34,076 Speaker 3: seen this possibility of genuine equality, but he has also 33 00:02:34,156 --> 00:02:38,756 Speaker 3: seen the very worst right. He himself has experienced slavery. 34 00:02:38,836 --> 00:02:44,036 Speaker 3: He has watched slave catchers grab people and haul them away, 35 00:02:44,316 --> 00:02:50,996 Speaker 3: and he has witnessed equivocation and cowardice and betrayal. 36 00:02:51,996 --> 00:02:54,636 Speaker 2: I am stuck by that same thing that he sees 37 00:02:54,636 --> 00:02:58,916 Speaker 2: the best. And he also is clear eyed about who 38 00:02:58,956 --> 00:03:00,876 Speaker 2: we are and what we're capable of. And this is 39 00:03:00,876 --> 00:03:03,996 Speaker 2: why I think he belongs in that kind of pantheon. 40 00:03:04,036 --> 00:03:06,996 Speaker 2: A founding father. Frederick Douglas is a founding father. 41 00:03:07,756 --> 00:03:08,356 Speaker 3: He really is. 42 00:03:08,436 --> 00:03:08,996 Speaker 4: He really is. 43 00:03:13,476 --> 00:03:16,356 Speaker 2: I said that not only because it's true, but because 44 00:03:16,396 --> 00:03:18,356 Speaker 2: Douglas is one of those people who should have been 45 00:03:18,396 --> 00:03:22,236 Speaker 2: crushed by history. Instead, for a long time he bent 46 00:03:22,316 --> 00:03:25,636 Speaker 2: it to his will. The movement to end slavery did 47 00:03:25,636 --> 00:03:29,156 Speaker 2: not begin with Frederick Douglas. That movement existed before the 48 00:03:29,276 --> 00:03:32,716 Speaker 2: United States did. A year before the Declaration of Independence, 49 00:03:32,916 --> 00:03:37,476 Speaker 2: Philadelphia Quakers founded the nation's first anti slavery society, and 50 00:03:37,516 --> 00:03:41,356 Speaker 2: from the beginning of the Transatlantic slave trade, enslaved people 51 00:03:41,556 --> 00:03:47,036 Speaker 2: organized revolutions and plotted escapes, and the abolition movement churned 52 00:03:47,076 --> 00:03:50,396 Speaker 2: out fiery figures that are now well known. Harriet Tubman 53 00:03:50,436 --> 00:03:54,236 Speaker 2: and sojournal Truth, William Lloyd Garrison, and David Walker, the 54 00:03:54,316 --> 00:04:00,516 Speaker 2: radical John Brown. But certainly Frederick Douglas was best known 55 00:04:00,596 --> 00:04:03,596 Speaker 2: in his own time, both in the US and abroad. 56 00:04:04,676 --> 00:04:08,036 Speaker 2: And so we begin our series with Douglas in the 57 00:04:08,076 --> 00:04:12,076 Speaker 2: opening days of recon Instruction in eighteen sixty five. He's 58 00:04:12,116 --> 00:04:14,876 Speaker 2: a man who thinks he's just completed his life's work, 59 00:04:15,596 --> 00:04:18,276 Speaker 2: but he's about to discover that his work has just 60 00:04:18,356 --> 00:04:25,876 Speaker 2: begun by Malcolm Gladwell. And this is Reconstruction, the Unfinished Promise. 61 00:04:36,036 --> 00:04:38,996 Speaker 2: One of our editors, Ky write has been obsessed with 62 00:04:39,036 --> 00:04:42,716 Speaker 2: Douglas for years, and particularly with the evolution of the 63 00:04:42,756 --> 00:04:43,956 Speaker 2: man's politics. 64 00:04:44,356 --> 00:04:47,236 Speaker 5: Can you help people understand just how big a deal 65 00:04:47,356 --> 00:04:50,516 Speaker 5: Frederick Douglas is at this stage in history. I mean, 66 00:04:50,996 --> 00:04:54,556 Speaker 5: like today he would have a billion Instagram followers, like 67 00:04:54,716 --> 00:04:56,476 Speaker 5: the most streamed podcasting history. 68 00:04:56,596 --> 00:04:56,716 Speaker 3: Right. 69 00:04:57,596 --> 00:05:01,916 Speaker 2: Kai called up David Blight, who is the Frederick Douglas expert. 70 00:05:02,316 --> 00:05:05,836 Speaker 2: Blight wrote a Pulitzer Prize winning biography of Douglas. He's 71 00:05:05,876 --> 00:05:08,196 Speaker 2: such a fan that when he spoke with Kai, he 72 00:05:08,276 --> 00:05:10,556 Speaker 2: was wearing a T shirt with a porch of Douglas 73 00:05:10,556 --> 00:05:12,996 Speaker 2: on it. I'm going to let the two of them 74 00:05:13,196 --> 00:05:17,196 Speaker 2: tell the story of this influential activists second chapter. 75 00:05:17,636 --> 00:05:20,436 Speaker 1: And it's interesting to think about. Yeah, he'd be he 76 00:05:20,516 --> 00:05:23,036 Speaker 1: need to be the guest on every major podcast, or 77 00:05:23,036 --> 00:05:25,876 Speaker 1: he'd be doing his own He's a very big deal. 78 00:05:27,036 --> 00:05:30,916 Speaker 1: At the end of the war, his image was everywhere. 79 00:05:31,636 --> 00:05:35,996 Speaker 1: He really couldn't go anywhere without being recognized. Part of 80 00:05:35,996 --> 00:05:36,636 Speaker 1: it was the hair. 81 00:05:39,236 --> 00:05:42,316 Speaker 5: Think about the term hair on fire. It's a shock 82 00:05:42,516 --> 00:05:44,116 Speaker 5: of hair alliance made. 83 00:05:44,876 --> 00:05:48,956 Speaker 1: Part of it was just his presence and the voice, 84 00:05:49,196 --> 00:05:52,476 Speaker 1: almost a shouting kind of baritone voice. 85 00:05:52,876 --> 00:05:56,596 Speaker 6: I know of no country where the conditions for affecting 86 00:05:56,676 --> 00:06:01,916 Speaker 6: great changes are more favorable than here in these United States. 87 00:06:03,036 --> 00:06:07,196 Speaker 1: I found all kinds of stories in the press of 88 00:06:07,316 --> 00:06:11,596 Speaker 1: people reciting the first time they saw Douglass. To a 89 00:06:11,716 --> 00:06:15,716 Speaker 1: certain degree, he became a kind of wonder of America. 90 00:06:16,116 --> 00:06:21,396 Speaker 4: The reception so to mister Frederick Douglas, the celebrated Frederick Douglas, 91 00:06:21,396 --> 00:06:25,516 Speaker 4: has been lionized in this city for several days, notwithstanding 92 00:06:25,556 --> 00:06:28,716 Speaker 4: the severe rainstorm last evening, Frederick Douglas drew out an 93 00:06:28,756 --> 00:06:29,796 Speaker 4: immense audience. 94 00:06:30,356 --> 00:06:34,196 Speaker 1: You came to America from Europe, for example, touring the country. 95 00:06:34,836 --> 00:06:37,076 Speaker 1: You wanted to see Niagara Falls, you wanted to see 96 00:06:37,636 --> 00:06:40,436 Speaker 1: New York City, Washington, d c. A few other things. 97 00:06:41,116 --> 00:06:44,836 Speaker 1: But if possible, especially if you came out of reform traditions, 98 00:06:45,916 --> 00:06:47,516 Speaker 1: try to see Frederick Douglass. 99 00:06:47,956 --> 00:06:51,236 Speaker 5: But in the spring of eighteen sixty five, this world 100 00:06:51,276 --> 00:06:54,956 Speaker 5: famous man who has spent literally his entire life working 101 00:06:54,956 --> 00:06:59,236 Speaker 5: to abolish slavery, at the moment of his triumph, he's 102 00:06:59,236 --> 00:07:06,396 Speaker 5: in a funk. He's kind of a guy who's lost 103 00:07:06,476 --> 00:07:07,556 Speaker 5: for purpose. 104 00:07:07,676 --> 00:07:10,916 Speaker 1: Right, he is loss for purpose at the very end 105 00:07:10,916 --> 00:07:13,916 Speaker 1: of the words the way he described it. And he 106 00:07:14,036 --> 00:07:17,356 Speaker 1: drew right from one of his favorite moments in Shakespeare. 107 00:07:17,396 --> 00:07:20,116 Speaker 1: He said, a fellow's occupation is gone. 108 00:07:21,196 --> 00:07:23,956 Speaker 6: I feel as though I have reached the end of 109 00:07:24,036 --> 00:07:27,596 Speaker 6: the noblest and best part of my life. My school 110 00:07:27,836 --> 00:07:31,316 Speaker 6: is broken up, my church disbanded. 111 00:07:32,196 --> 00:07:34,236 Speaker 1: He didn't know, He didn't know where to go. He 112 00:07:34,276 --> 00:07:38,076 Speaker 1: didn't quite know what to do. Douglas see, he's one 113 00:07:38,076 --> 00:07:43,876 Speaker 1: of the rare, rare radical reformers in history who lives 114 00:07:43,956 --> 00:07:47,476 Speaker 1: to see his cause triumph in the middle of his life. 115 00:07:47,836 --> 00:07:51,516 Speaker 1: He's only forty some years old, and he will face 116 00:07:51,596 --> 00:07:56,836 Speaker 1: the challenge the rest of his life to sustain the 117 00:07:56,916 --> 00:08:01,796 Speaker 1: victory of emancipation, the great transition from slavery to freedom. 118 00:08:03,076 --> 00:08:07,836 Speaker 1: But no one knows, No one really knows yet where 119 00:08:07,836 --> 00:08:11,116 Speaker 1: any of this is going. What he was certain of 120 00:08:11,236 --> 00:08:16,276 Speaker 1: kai is that the Confederate South was not going away. 121 00:08:17,196 --> 00:08:21,836 Speaker 1: He kept warning, he warns, They're still there. The slave 122 00:08:21,916 --> 00:08:26,556 Speaker 1: holding spirit he always is warning, is still out there. 123 00:08:26,516 --> 00:08:33,596 Speaker 5: This ghost haunting the United States. I can't overemphasize how 124 00:08:33,836 --> 00:08:37,836 Speaker 5: fast history moved. In eighteen sixty five. The war ends 125 00:08:37,836 --> 00:08:40,676 Speaker 5: in April, and in less than a week Abraham Lincoln 126 00:08:40,716 --> 00:08:44,436 Speaker 5: is assassinated. That obviously catches the whole world off guard. 127 00:08:44,676 --> 00:08:48,756 Speaker 5: But for Frederick Douglas, who again is already disoriented by 128 00:08:48,756 --> 00:08:51,076 Speaker 5: the fact that he's just witnessed the completion of his 129 00:08:51,116 --> 00:08:54,436 Speaker 5: whole life's mission, I just I can't imagine how he 130 00:08:54,556 --> 00:08:55,876 Speaker 5: processed Lincoln's death. 131 00:08:57,036 --> 00:09:00,716 Speaker 1: Douglas was horrified, and there are many ways to understand that. 132 00:09:03,036 --> 00:09:07,116 Speaker 1: He goes back to Rochester at the news of Lincoln's assassination, 133 00:09:08,516 --> 00:09:12,636 Speaker 1: and a huge crowd had gathered in the central Square 134 00:09:12,636 --> 00:09:16,556 Speaker 1: of Rochester, New York, where he lived, and Douglas went 135 00:09:16,636 --> 00:09:19,116 Speaker 1: and joined the crowd, and there were some speakers, and 136 00:09:19,236 --> 00:09:22,956 Speaker 1: the crowd called for him. And it's a very moving 137 00:09:23,036 --> 00:09:25,196 Speaker 1: statement he made. 138 00:09:25,396 --> 00:09:31,036 Speaker 6: It is a day for silence and meditation, for grief 139 00:09:31,596 --> 00:09:38,836 Speaker 6: and tears. Yet I feel that though Abraham Lincoln dies, 140 00:09:39,956 --> 00:09:42,836 Speaker 6: the Republic lives. 141 00:09:43,596 --> 00:09:49,236 Speaker 1: He said at that moment he had never felt a 142 00:09:49,396 --> 00:09:52,876 Speaker 1: kinship for his fellow Americans, and by that I think 143 00:09:52,876 --> 00:09:57,716 Speaker 1: he met white people. He'd never felt such a kinship 144 00:09:59,116 --> 00:10:00,756 Speaker 1: as he did through Lincoln's death. 145 00:10:06,356 --> 00:10:09,916 Speaker 5: Just think about these two men. Here's Douglas, a formerly 146 00:10:10,036 --> 00:10:13,636 Speaker 5: enslaved child who now commanded the attention of the President 147 00:10:13,676 --> 00:10:14,636 Speaker 5: of the United States. 148 00:10:15,276 --> 00:10:15,836 Speaker 3: During the war. 149 00:10:15,956 --> 00:10:18,196 Speaker 5: He was able to look Lincoln in the eye and 150 00:10:18,276 --> 00:10:22,156 Speaker 5: challenge him to do more, not only in slavery, but 151 00:10:22,196 --> 00:10:24,396 Speaker 5: to arm black men in the fight to save the Union. 152 00:10:25,156 --> 00:10:28,356 Speaker 5: And here's Lincoln standing astride history, trying to save the 153 00:10:28,476 --> 00:10:33,676 Speaker 5: Union and gradually realizing that Douglas was right. The only 154 00:10:33,756 --> 00:10:36,636 Speaker 5: way forward for the United States was to abolish slavery. 155 00:10:37,196 --> 00:10:41,596 Speaker 5: Both Lincoln and Douglas are legendary pragmatists, cerebral by nature, 156 00:10:41,876 --> 00:10:44,676 Speaker 5: but each of them see the national story in fully 157 00:10:44,716 --> 00:10:49,436 Speaker 5: biblical terms. They're ready to partner in this divine task 158 00:10:49,716 --> 00:10:56,196 Speaker 5: of rebuilding the United States. And then bang, partnership is 159 00:10:56,236 --> 00:11:00,116 Speaker 5: snuffed out in one gunshot on Easter weekend, no less, 160 00:11:00,396 --> 00:11:03,876 Speaker 5: just days after the end of the war. And the 161 00:11:03,876 --> 00:11:07,276 Speaker 5: man who rises into the presidency as a result of 162 00:11:07,316 --> 00:11:09,876 Speaker 5: that gunshot, he is There's no a Lincoln. 163 00:11:11,756 --> 00:11:15,596 Speaker 7: Andrew Johnson is an interesting character. He was literally the 164 00:11:15,636 --> 00:11:17,076 Speaker 7: polar opposite of Lincoln. 165 00:11:17,636 --> 00:11:20,236 Speaker 5: Manisha Sinha is chair of the history department at the 166 00:11:20,316 --> 00:11:23,516 Speaker 5: University of Connecticut, and she has written a great deal 167 00:11:23,636 --> 00:11:30,476 Speaker 5: about Lincoln's successor, Andrew Johnson, America's troubled seventeenth president. 168 00:11:30,876 --> 00:11:32,236 Speaker 3: She's an advisor on our series. 169 00:11:32,876 --> 00:11:38,116 Speaker 7: Johnson seems to have been a person who really sort 170 00:11:38,116 --> 00:11:42,116 Speaker 7: of lacked political skills. You know, he's petty, he's mean, 171 00:11:42,516 --> 00:11:46,836 Speaker 7: he's vindictive, he's abusive, he's a drunk. He's not a 172 00:11:46,876 --> 00:11:50,316 Speaker 7: great character to inhabit the office of the President of 173 00:11:50,356 --> 00:11:51,396 Speaker 7: the United States. 174 00:11:51,836 --> 00:11:54,756 Speaker 5: But Lincoln had picked Andrew Johnson as his vice president 175 00:11:54,876 --> 00:11:57,916 Speaker 5: in eighteen sixty four as a show of national unity 176 00:11:58,076 --> 00:12:02,156 Speaker 5: because Johnson was a Southern Democrat instead of a Northern Republican. 177 00:12:03,196 --> 00:12:06,636 Speaker 5: The first sign of trouble came on Lincoln in Johnson's 178 00:12:06,676 --> 00:12:07,636 Speaker 5: inauguration day. 179 00:12:08,356 --> 00:12:12,636 Speaker 1: There is a story that Andrew Johnson was a little 180 00:12:12,716 --> 00:12:16,716 Speaker 1: schnocker on some brandy or bourbon or something, because he 181 00:12:16,756 --> 00:12:20,596 Speaker 1: had a horrific toothache that day. Now he might have 182 00:12:20,716 --> 00:12:23,196 Speaker 1: been sipping for other reasons, who knows, but he was 183 00:12:23,356 --> 00:12:27,796 Speaker 1: not entirely sober at his inauguration as vice president of 184 00:12:27,796 --> 00:12:32,076 Speaker 1: the United States. Now, at that point, what Douglas and 185 00:12:32,116 --> 00:12:35,916 Speaker 1: others knew about Andrew Johnson. He's obviously from Tennessee. He's 186 00:12:35,956 --> 00:12:39,156 Speaker 1: from East Tennessee. You know, there's an old saying about Johnson. 187 00:12:39,636 --> 00:12:43,516 Speaker 1: Quote Old Andy never went back on his raisin, which 188 00:12:43,556 --> 00:12:46,476 Speaker 1: means he knew where he was from. He was a 189 00:12:46,556 --> 00:12:49,476 Speaker 1: damn good stump speaker. You know he could jump on 190 00:12:49,516 --> 00:12:53,076 Speaker 1: a wagon and get the farmers cheering about something. He's 191 00:12:53,076 --> 00:12:57,516 Speaker 1: a former slaveholder that was known, who never believed in secession, 192 00:12:58,916 --> 00:13:00,996 Speaker 1: which is why he stayed in the Union. He was 193 00:13:01,076 --> 00:13:04,836 Speaker 1: the only senator from a seceded state to stay in 194 00:13:04,876 --> 00:13:07,996 Speaker 1: the Union, which is what got him on Lincoln's ticket. Which, 195 00:13:08,036 --> 00:13:10,596 Speaker 1: by the way, I've always said this to all my 196 00:13:10,676 --> 00:13:13,676 Speaker 1: dear friends who are Lincoln scholars, why don't you ever 197 00:13:13,716 --> 00:13:16,716 Speaker 1: talk about that. That's one of Lincoln's biggest mistakes. 198 00:13:17,396 --> 00:13:20,836 Speaker 3: It's a horrible, horrible it's a horrible choice. 199 00:13:20,956 --> 00:13:24,716 Speaker 1: I mean politically at the moment, it's it's a unity, 200 00:13:24,956 --> 00:13:29,436 Speaker 1: it's a reunion ticket for this symbolism of the Southerner 201 00:13:29,436 --> 00:13:32,636 Speaker 1: who stayed in the Union. He's a unionist he really was, 202 00:13:33,276 --> 00:13:38,956 Speaker 1: but a former slaveholder, racist to in his bones, and 203 00:13:39,116 --> 00:13:47,836 Speaker 1: a fervent states rights advocate. Of course, nobody expected presidents 204 00:13:47,836 --> 00:13:48,396 Speaker 1: to be shot. 205 00:13:52,676 --> 00:13:55,876 Speaker 5: Andrew Johnson takes over the presidency at the start of 206 00:13:55,916 --> 00:13:59,356 Speaker 5: the remarkable era that historians now call reconstruction. 207 00:14:00,316 --> 00:14:02,916 Speaker 1: We get to use the word unprecedented sometimes because it 208 00:14:03,076 --> 00:14:05,996 Speaker 1: fitness uh. The country had never been in this situation. 209 00:14:06,156 --> 00:14:09,356 Speaker 1: The end of a massive civil war. America was now 210 00:14:09,476 --> 00:14:13,996 Speaker 1: being reinvented. But how what would it do? Who were 211 00:14:14,036 --> 00:14:16,196 Speaker 1: the freed people? How would they be defined? 212 00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:22,316 Speaker 5: Frederick Douglas couldn't have felt Andrew Johnson was fit to 213 00:14:22,396 --> 00:14:25,996 Speaker 5: lead the nation through this conversation, But Douglas did have 214 00:14:26,036 --> 00:14:29,676 Speaker 5: a clear idea about how to answer that crucial question 215 00:14:29,876 --> 00:14:30,676 Speaker 5: of reconstruction. 216 00:14:31,236 --> 00:14:37,116 Speaker 6: Slavery is not abolished until the black man has the ballot. 217 00:14:38,436 --> 00:14:42,396 Speaker 5: We need voting rights first and foremost, and the Republicans 218 00:14:42,396 --> 00:14:46,276 Speaker 5: who controlled Congress mostly agreed that's where Lincoln had been headed. 219 00:14:46,796 --> 00:14:49,636 Speaker 7: Lincoln when he died, one of the last speeches he 220 00:14:49,756 --> 00:14:53,036 Speaker 7: made was to say black men who are educated and 221 00:14:53,076 --> 00:14:55,636 Speaker 7: who have served in the Union Army should get the 222 00:14:55,716 --> 00:14:58,996 Speaker 7: right to vote. So that's like the first public endorsement 223 00:14:59,316 --> 00:15:00,516 Speaker 7: a black citizenship. 224 00:15:01,356 --> 00:15:06,596 Speaker 1: But Andrew Johnson, he wanted nothing to do with black 225 00:15:06,636 --> 00:15:10,676 Speaker 1: civil rights political rights. He to the extent we can 226 00:15:10,796 --> 00:15:14,276 Speaker 1: understand him, he wanted black people to become a kind 227 00:15:14,316 --> 00:15:20,916 Speaker 1: of an American serfdom. They would remain agricultural workers, they 228 00:15:20,956 --> 00:15:23,796 Speaker 1: would stay in the South, they would be a backbone 229 00:15:23,836 --> 00:15:27,316 Speaker 1: of the economy. To the extent Andrew Johnson thought much 230 00:15:27,996 --> 00:15:30,476 Speaker 1: about all of that. That's as far as he ever 231 00:15:30,516 --> 00:15:31,236 Speaker 1: wanted to go. 232 00:15:32,196 --> 00:15:35,436 Speaker 5: He did think a great deal about how to handle 233 00:15:35,476 --> 00:15:39,916 Speaker 5: the Confederacy. Remember, the Confederate states left the Union, they 234 00:15:39,956 --> 00:15:43,236 Speaker 5: succeeded and took up arms against the United States, and 235 00:15:43,276 --> 00:15:46,916 Speaker 5: their leaders, many of whom had been members of Congress 236 00:15:46,956 --> 00:15:50,996 Speaker 5: before the war, were actual literal traders. So one of 237 00:15:50,996 --> 00:15:54,116 Speaker 5: the big questions of reconstruction was how to bring these 238 00:15:54,156 --> 00:16:00,116 Speaker 5: states and their traitorous political leaders back into the fold. Johnson, 239 00:16:00,236 --> 00:16:02,916 Speaker 5: he had been a senator from a Confederate state at 240 00:16:02,916 --> 00:16:05,956 Speaker 5: the start of the war. He just personally refused to secede. 241 00:16:06,396 --> 00:16:09,836 Speaker 5: So now he's president and he wants to traders back in. 242 00:16:10,636 --> 00:16:15,476 Speaker 1: They would be immediately readmitted to the Union. He would 243 00:16:15,516 --> 00:16:23,556 Speaker 1: accept some disenfranchisement of ex Confederates, but even that he 244 00:16:23,636 --> 00:16:26,756 Speaker 1: had an alternative plan for which was to require them 245 00:16:26,836 --> 00:16:31,996 Speaker 1: to apply to him personally for pardons. And that is 246 00:16:32,116 --> 00:16:36,956 Speaker 1: existence well, that whole staff of people working for the 247 00:16:36,996 --> 00:16:41,076 Speaker 1: executive branch just processing pardons for ex Confederates. They would 248 00:16:41,116 --> 00:16:44,956 Speaker 1: literally line up at the White House or executive building 249 00:16:45,036 --> 00:16:49,396 Speaker 1: nearby to get their pardons. Johnson liked the idea. See 250 00:16:49,476 --> 00:16:52,956 Speaker 1: Johnson was Johnson had the self image of a poor boy. 251 00:16:53,956 --> 00:16:57,316 Speaker 1: His poor boy from East Tennessee Hill country, and he 252 00:16:57,396 --> 00:16:59,876 Speaker 1: did grow up with not much, although he had owned 253 00:16:59,876 --> 00:17:02,716 Speaker 1: some slaves, and he was proud to tell you that. 254 00:17:03,516 --> 00:17:06,636 Speaker 1: But he liked the idea of the old planter class, 255 00:17:06,676 --> 00:17:12,356 Speaker 1: which he was not from having a kind of coward him. So, yeah, 256 00:17:12,356 --> 00:17:15,276 Speaker 1: that sounds familiar too, doesn't The guy with the sense 257 00:17:15,316 --> 00:17:18,236 Speaker 1: of grievance is going to make everybody who might have 258 00:17:18,476 --> 00:17:21,716 Speaker 1: looked down on him come and bend their knee. He 259 00:17:21,836 --> 00:17:22,236 Speaker 1: loved it. 260 00:17:22,596 --> 00:17:24,796 Speaker 3: And meanwhile, black people have to get caught in the middle. 261 00:17:24,556 --> 00:17:26,316 Speaker 1: Of the Black people ain't even gonna be allowed in 262 00:17:26,356 --> 00:17:27,036 Speaker 1: the middle of it. 263 00:17:30,396 --> 00:17:35,796 Speaker 6: Whatever Andrew Johnson may be, he is no friend of 264 00:17:35,836 --> 00:17:36,396 Speaker 6: our race. 265 00:17:39,436 --> 00:17:43,996 Speaker 5: So Douglas sees Andrew Johnson and now he's. 266 00:17:43,796 --> 00:17:45,156 Speaker 3: Got his new vocation. 267 00:17:45,356 --> 00:17:49,756 Speaker 5: Now he has found his calling in opposition essentially to 268 00:17:49,836 --> 00:17:50,596 Speaker 5: Andrew Johnson. 269 00:17:50,796 --> 00:17:52,916 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and what a great foil. 270 00:17:55,516 --> 00:17:58,636 Speaker 2: David Blight and Ky Write will be back to talk 271 00:17:58,796 --> 00:18:02,796 Speaker 2: more about this coming showdown. But first I'm taking us 272 00:18:02,796 --> 00:18:13,756 Speaker 2: to meet the man who really got it underway. Remember, 273 00:18:14,036 --> 00:18:17,876 Speaker 2: Frederick Douglas and Andrew Johnson both need public opinion on 274 00:18:17,996 --> 00:18:21,716 Speaker 2: their side. After the war. Douglas argues that the federal 275 00:18:21,716 --> 00:18:24,636 Speaker 2: government has an obligation to the newly freed people of 276 00:18:24,676 --> 00:18:28,316 Speaker 2: the South. It must not only protect them, but give 277 00:18:28,356 --> 00:18:33,236 Speaker 2: them the right to vote. President Johnson disagrees. He doesn't 278 00:18:33,276 --> 00:18:36,276 Speaker 2: think the federal government should do much of anything. In fact, 279 00:18:36,516 --> 00:18:40,996 Speaker 2: he's busy pardoning Confederates. But Johnson is only president by 280 00:18:41,036 --> 00:18:45,276 Speaker 2: dint of a terrible tragedy. His power is tenuous. He 281 00:18:45,356 --> 00:18:49,716 Speaker 2: needs some ammunition for his arguments, so he sends a 282 00:18:49,756 --> 00:18:53,236 Speaker 2: man you've probably never heard of on a historic mission. 283 00:18:53,796 --> 00:18:57,516 Speaker 2: It's a mission that will become hugely consequential for reconstruction, 284 00:18:58,476 --> 00:19:05,676 Speaker 2: just not in the way Andrew Johnson hopes. This is 285 00:19:05,676 --> 00:19:09,556 Speaker 2: our dude, right. So, in my many years in New 286 00:19:09,596 --> 00:19:15,316 Speaker 2: York City, I have come walked past this monument many times. 287 00:19:15,316 --> 00:19:17,556 Speaker 2: We're in the corner of one hundred and sixteenth Street 288 00:19:17,556 --> 00:19:22,116 Speaker 2: on Morningside Drive, on the edge of Columbia University, on 289 00:19:21,836 --> 00:19:25,476 Speaker 2: the border between Columbia and Morningside Park, one of the 290 00:19:25,476 --> 00:19:29,076 Speaker 2: crown jewels of Manhattan. And there is this statue which 291 00:19:29,116 --> 00:19:31,396 Speaker 2: I have passed and it has never occurred to me 292 00:19:31,876 --> 00:19:34,556 Speaker 2: to stop and wonder who it is. And it's this 293 00:19:35,716 --> 00:19:41,036 Speaker 2: actually quite imposing statue of a man in what looks 294 00:19:41,076 --> 00:19:44,156 Speaker 2: like a man in his sixties or seventies, wearing a 295 00:19:44,236 --> 00:19:47,836 Speaker 2: kind of long imposing cloak, holding onto his hat and 296 00:19:47,916 --> 00:19:50,516 Speaker 2: a very determined look on his face. And it says 297 00:19:51,156 --> 00:19:54,676 Speaker 2: Karl Schurt's a defender of liberty and a friend of 298 00:19:54,756 --> 00:19:59,636 Speaker 2: human rights. So this statue dates to nineteen thirteen. At 299 00:19:59,636 --> 00:20:03,996 Speaker 2: the dedication ceremony for this statue, just to choke, the 300 00:20:03,996 --> 00:20:05,956 Speaker 2: one who led the movement to get a built said, 301 00:20:06,836 --> 00:20:16,516 Speaker 2: this day will not end the memory of Carl. Does 302 00:20:16,636 --> 00:20:20,356 Speaker 2: anyone remember Carl Schertz today? I don't think so. I've 303 00:20:20,396 --> 00:20:22,996 Speaker 2: never seen anyone standing in front of that statue. The 304 00:20:23,076 --> 00:20:25,716 Speaker 2: man actually seems lost to history, like a lot of 305 00:20:25,716 --> 00:20:28,956 Speaker 2: what happened in the Reconstruction era. At the end of 306 00:20:28,956 --> 00:20:31,476 Speaker 2: the Civil War, Carl Schertz was in the vanguard of 307 00:20:31,476 --> 00:20:34,796 Speaker 2: American politics, one of the people who had rallied around 308 00:20:34,796 --> 00:20:37,396 Speaker 2: Abraham Lincoln and the Republican Party to save the Union. 309 00:20:38,156 --> 00:20:40,916 Speaker 1: If you think about it, this was a we saw 310 00:20:40,956 --> 00:20:44,956 Speaker 1: them and talk about generations in politics, and this was 311 00:20:44,996 --> 00:20:48,996 Speaker 1: a generation of political leaders. They won the Civil War, 312 00:20:50,116 --> 00:20:55,036 Speaker 1: they mobilized as no one had ever imagined, and here 313 00:20:55,076 --> 00:21:00,836 Speaker 1: they are in eighteen sixty five, victorious. It's a remarkable generation. 314 00:21:02,156 --> 00:21:05,316 Speaker 2: And Carl Schertz is right there in the middle of it. 315 00:21:06,636 --> 00:21:09,676 Speaker 2: He's a German immigrant who fought and lost in movements 316 00:21:09,716 --> 00:21:14,036 Speaker 2: against European monarchy before coming to America and joining Lincoln's 317 00:21:14,036 --> 00:21:18,596 Speaker 2: political coalition. He sees the United States as a laboratory 318 00:21:18,636 --> 00:21:22,836 Speaker 2: for democracy, as an example to the world, no more royalty, 319 00:21:23,116 --> 00:21:26,196 Speaker 2: no more aristocracy, and no more slavery. 320 00:21:26,956 --> 00:21:29,956 Speaker 8: The awesome thing about shirts is, on the one hand, 321 00:21:29,116 --> 00:21:33,916 Speaker 8: he's on kind of the side of liberal democracy for 322 00:21:34,036 --> 00:21:36,276 Speaker 8: all these mass movements in the nineteenth century. He's like 323 00:21:36,396 --> 00:21:38,396 Speaker 8: a street running across the nineteenth century. 324 00:21:39,316 --> 00:21:42,436 Speaker 2: Finally I found someone who's gotten into call shirts as 325 00:21:42,516 --> 00:21:45,756 Speaker 2: much as I have John Grinspan, a historian at the 326 00:21:45,796 --> 00:21:50,276 Speaker 2: Smithsonian Institute who studies the politics of the eighteen hundreds. 327 00:21:50,716 --> 00:21:54,076 Speaker 8: And the other thing is Carl Schurtz is incredibly kind 328 00:21:54,116 --> 00:21:58,836 Speaker 8: of needling and pushy, and the Yiddish word nunik is 329 00:21:58,836 --> 00:22:02,116 Speaker 8: the word I think of for him. He's such a difficult, 330 00:22:02,796 --> 00:22:06,796 Speaker 8: sometimes annoying individual that it's fun to see the humanity 331 00:22:06,836 --> 00:22:08,876 Speaker 8: in somebody who's involved in all these kind of go 332 00:22:09,156 --> 00:22:09,836 Speaker 8: arious movements. 333 00:22:10,916 --> 00:22:13,436 Speaker 2: It's the summer of eighteen sixty five, just a few 334 00:22:13,476 --> 00:22:16,156 Speaker 2: months after the Civil war has ended, and after Lincoln 335 00:22:16,316 --> 00:22:20,596 Speaker 2: has been killed, Andrew Johnson, the new president, asks Carl 336 00:22:20,676 --> 00:22:24,636 Speaker 2: Schirtz to come to the White House. Shirts thinks here's 337 00:22:24,676 --> 00:22:28,676 Speaker 2: an opportunity to shape the reconstruction effort that's just begun. 338 00:22:29,436 --> 00:22:32,436 Speaker 8: He sees some things he thinks Johnson is doing wrong, 339 00:22:32,676 --> 00:22:36,156 Speaker 8: and he, in a maybe naive wa thinks he can 340 00:22:36,196 --> 00:22:38,236 Speaker 8: go to Johnson and talk him into a better policy. 341 00:22:42,076 --> 00:22:45,396 Speaker 2: What follows is a little digression, but it's hard to resist, 342 00:22:45,756 --> 00:22:48,516 Speaker 2: and it tells you something about how Americans were handling 343 00:22:48,596 --> 00:22:53,396 Speaker 2: both the trauma of war and a president's assassination. On 344 00:22:53,436 --> 00:22:56,596 Speaker 2: the way to Washington to see Johnson, call Shirts stays 345 00:22:56,596 --> 00:23:00,556 Speaker 2: with friends in Philadelphia. The family had lost two sons 346 00:23:00,556 --> 00:23:03,276 Speaker 2: in the war. Unlike so many others, they wanted to 347 00:23:03,316 --> 00:23:08,316 Speaker 2: communicate with them through a seance. The night Shirts arrives, 348 00:23:08,676 --> 00:23:11,596 Speaker 2: they invite him to join in. He wrote about it later. 349 00:23:12,636 --> 00:23:17,556 Speaker 9: One of the daughters, an uncommonly beautiful, intelligent, and high 350 00:23:17,596 --> 00:23:22,036 Speaker 9: spirited girl of about fifteen, had shown remarkable qualities as 351 00:23:22,076 --> 00:23:26,156 Speaker 9: a writing medium. When the circle was formed around the table, 352 00:23:26,676 --> 00:23:31,596 Speaker 9: hands touching, a shiver seemed to pass over her fingers 353 00:23:31,676 --> 00:23:35,116 Speaker 9: begun to twitch. She grasped a pencil held out to her, 354 00:23:35,476 --> 00:23:39,076 Speaker 9: and as if obeying an irresistible impulse, she wrote in 355 00:23:39,116 --> 00:23:43,916 Speaker 9: a jerky way the messages given her by the spirits. 356 00:23:44,796 --> 00:23:47,556 Speaker 8: He asks that the girl call up the spirit of 357 00:23:47,636 --> 00:23:50,796 Speaker 8: Abraham Lincoln, who's just dead for a few months at 358 00:23:50,796 --> 00:23:53,636 Speaker 8: that point, and he claims that at the seance, the 359 00:23:53,676 --> 00:23:56,076 Speaker 8: spirit of Abraham Lincoln tells him that Johnson is going 360 00:23:56,076 --> 00:23:59,156 Speaker 8: to send him on an important mission. It's classic Carl 361 00:23:59,196 --> 00:24:01,516 Speaker 8: Shirts that he has Lincoln come back from behind the 362 00:24:01,556 --> 00:24:02,996 Speaker 8: grave to give him a promotion. 363 00:24:06,596 --> 00:24:09,116 Speaker 2: But now after that side trip to the spirit world, 364 00:24:09,596 --> 00:24:12,916 Speaker 2: he is a real president to meet. I asked historian 365 00:24:13,116 --> 00:24:18,116 Speaker 2: Militia Sinha about that encounter. So Shirts goes to Washington, 366 00:24:19,676 --> 00:24:22,556 Speaker 2: sits down with Johnson, or what does Johnson explicitly ask 367 00:24:22,636 --> 00:24:23,076 Speaker 2: him to do? 368 00:24:24,716 --> 00:24:27,996 Speaker 7: So Johnson asks Shirts to go to the Southern States 369 00:24:28,156 --> 00:24:30,836 Speaker 7: and says, I want you to report on the conditions 370 00:24:31,396 --> 00:24:34,076 Speaker 7: in the South right now. And I think he wants 371 00:24:34,116 --> 00:24:36,756 Speaker 7: to use Shirts. He wants to send Shirts to the 372 00:24:36,876 --> 00:24:40,356 Speaker 7: South to report back to him. Hey, everything is fine, 373 00:24:40,396 --> 00:24:43,476 Speaker 7: it's all hunky dory, and you know the South can 374 00:24:43,556 --> 00:24:44,516 Speaker 7: rejoin the Union. 375 00:24:44,876 --> 00:24:49,516 Speaker 2: Oh so, from Johnson's perspective, he's looking He's looking for 376 00:24:49,556 --> 00:24:52,396 Speaker 2: a kind of cover story. He thinks he thinks Shirts 377 00:24:52,476 --> 00:24:55,676 Speaker 2: is going to come back with something that kind of 378 00:24:55,916 --> 00:24:59,196 Speaker 2: justifies him, sort of washing his hands of the whole 379 00:24:59,196 --> 00:25:01,596 Speaker 2: thing and moving on. Why does he think Shirts could 380 00:25:01,796 --> 00:25:03,356 Speaker 2: would be such a willing dupe? 381 00:25:03,716 --> 00:25:07,756 Speaker 7: That's an interesting question. I think he's also calculating that 382 00:25:07,836 --> 00:25:11,116 Speaker 7: he wants to send someone one who would be believable 383 00:25:11,636 --> 00:25:14,796 Speaker 7: to the Radical Way and to the entire Republican Party. 384 00:25:15,996 --> 00:25:19,276 Speaker 2: In mid July, Carl Shurtz begins his fact finding mission. 385 00:25:19,956 --> 00:25:22,756 Speaker 2: He boids a steamboat from Washington to the South Carolina 386 00:25:22,876 --> 00:25:26,236 Speaker 2: Sea Islands. A US military officer takes him to a 387 00:25:26,276 --> 00:25:30,596 Speaker 2: plantation near Beaufort, far down the eastern coast, just shy 388 00:25:30,716 --> 00:25:35,156 Speaker 2: at the South Carolina Georgia border. Shirtz is excited by 389 00:25:35,156 --> 00:25:35,796 Speaker 2: what he sees. 390 00:25:36,516 --> 00:25:40,556 Speaker 9: Fields free from wheats, the cotton plants healthy, The cornfields 391 00:25:40,596 --> 00:25:45,276 Speaker 9: promised a rich shield everything, breathing thrift, order and prosperity. 392 00:25:46,076 --> 00:25:48,316 Speaker 9: We passed by a large log house in which a 393 00:25:48,316 --> 00:25:52,076 Speaker 9: colored preacher was exalting his congregation for it was Sunday. 394 00:25:52,716 --> 00:25:56,396 Speaker 7: This is an area where the Union Army, abolitionists free 395 00:25:56,476 --> 00:26:01,556 Speaker 7: people themselves are experimenting in systems of free labor that 396 00:26:01,676 --> 00:26:06,276 Speaker 7: would replace slavery. Freed people's idea of free labor who 397 00:26:06,476 --> 00:26:10,356 Speaker 7: was linked to their own traditions of economic attime. They 398 00:26:10,596 --> 00:26:15,876 Speaker 7: envisioned free labor as sometimes even ownership of land, but 399 00:26:15,996 --> 00:26:20,436 Speaker 7: definitely control over who they labored for, how much they labored, 400 00:26:20,756 --> 00:26:22,396 Speaker 7: and what they would get for it. 401 00:26:23,956 --> 00:26:26,996 Speaker 2: But this pleasant picture would not hold up for long. 402 00:26:27,676 --> 00:26:31,116 Speaker 2: Schwartz leaves the Sea Islands and takes another boat to Charleston, 403 00:26:31,196 --> 00:26:35,476 Speaker 2: South Carolina. That's where he starts to encounter the real 404 00:26:35,556 --> 00:26:37,236 Speaker 2: devastation of the war. 405 00:26:37,956 --> 00:26:40,916 Speaker 8: He writes about how long it takes getting into Charleston 406 00:26:41,236 --> 00:26:44,316 Speaker 8: before he sees a living creature. This city that was 407 00:26:44,356 --> 00:26:48,036 Speaker 8: so kind of glamorous and sophisticated on the eve of 408 00:26:48,076 --> 00:26:51,676 Speaker 8: the war now looks like it's just completely in ruins. 409 00:26:52,076 --> 00:26:56,516 Speaker 8: He really sees the impact on urban civilian populations and 410 00:26:56,596 --> 00:27:00,116 Speaker 8: the degree of destruction, and the degree of the word 411 00:27:00,196 --> 00:27:04,516 Speaker 8: he keeps using is sullenness. The degree of anger and 412 00:27:04,636 --> 00:27:08,836 Speaker 8: resignation and frustration that he runs into among the kind 413 00:27:08,836 --> 00:27:12,476 Speaker 8: of especially the white elite Southern population who previously had 414 00:27:12,516 --> 00:27:15,476 Speaker 8: been so dominant in a place like Charleston, now will 415 00:27:15,516 --> 00:27:16,316 Speaker 8: barely speak. 416 00:27:17,196 --> 00:27:20,836 Speaker 2: Schurtz travels further into South Carolina. He rides on miserable 417 00:27:20,876 --> 00:27:24,756 Speaker 2: trains through ninety five degree heat. His mule drawn wagon 418 00:27:24,796 --> 00:27:28,596 Speaker 2: breaks down. The roads are nothing with deep sand. He 419 00:27:28,716 --> 00:27:31,916 Speaker 2: visits Columbia, the state capitol, and finds it reduced to 420 00:27:31,956 --> 00:27:36,556 Speaker 2: what he calls a confused mass of charred ruins. He 421 00:27:36,596 --> 00:27:40,276 Speaker 2: passes through the remains of General Sherman's infamous march and 422 00:27:40,316 --> 00:27:44,156 Speaker 2: sees a broad black streak of desolation. 423 00:27:45,076 --> 00:27:49,556 Speaker 8: Reconstruction has barely begun. The war is in a sense 424 00:27:49,676 --> 00:27:52,556 Speaker 8: over in that the major armies have surrendered and Jefferson 425 00:27:52,596 --> 00:27:55,436 Speaker 8: Davis has been captured, but there's no sense of order 426 00:27:55,516 --> 00:27:58,476 Speaker 8: or peace. There's just kind of degrees of chaos. And 427 00:27:59,596 --> 00:28:02,276 Speaker 8: he Trat talks a lot as he travels to especially 428 00:28:02,356 --> 00:28:05,156 Speaker 8: to kind of former Confederates and to white Southerners, and 429 00:28:05,196 --> 00:28:07,636 Speaker 8: he gets a sense that there's a consensus that the 430 00:28:07,636 --> 00:28:11,276 Speaker 8: Confederacy has lost and secession has failed, but there's no 431 00:28:11,316 --> 00:28:12,956 Speaker 8: agreement on what should come next. 432 00:28:14,316 --> 00:28:14,876 Speaker 6: They want to. 433 00:28:14,836 --> 00:28:17,836 Speaker 9: Fight the war over again, and they are sure in 434 00:28:17,916 --> 00:28:20,436 Speaker 9: five years we are going to have a war bigger 435 00:28:20,436 --> 00:28:21,436 Speaker 9: than any we have seen. 436 00:28:21,516 --> 00:28:21,796 Speaker 6: Yet. 437 00:28:22,676 --> 00:28:26,236 Speaker 9: They are impatient to get rid of this damned military 438 00:28:26,316 --> 00:28:29,596 Speaker 9: despotism they will show us what stuff Southern men are 439 00:28:29,636 --> 00:28:32,116 Speaker 9: made of. Such is their talk. 440 00:28:33,756 --> 00:28:36,396 Speaker 2: Shirts makes his way to Savannah, Georgia. He finds a 441 00:28:36,436 --> 00:28:39,396 Speaker 2: city still reeling from mob violence that broke out on 442 00:28:39,516 --> 00:28:40,476 Speaker 2: Independence Day. 443 00:28:41,036 --> 00:28:44,916 Speaker 8: In Savannah. When they hold a Fourth of July celebration 444 00:28:45,156 --> 00:28:47,596 Speaker 8: in eighteen sixty five, the war is over. It's a 445 00:28:47,596 --> 00:28:51,076 Speaker 8: Fourth of July celebration that should be fairly patriotic. Basically, 446 00:28:51,116 --> 00:28:55,196 Speaker 8: the only people that attender are Union soldiers and freed slaves, 447 00:28:55,276 --> 00:28:57,436 Speaker 8: and they're attacked by an angry white mob. 448 00:28:59,836 --> 00:29:04,116 Speaker 2: Historian Minitia Sinha says Carl Schurtz wasn't the only person 449 00:29:04,156 --> 00:29:07,716 Speaker 2: to witness this kind of thing. The patriotic holiday had 450 00:29:07,716 --> 00:29:09,036 Speaker 2: become a flashpoint. 451 00:29:09,316 --> 00:29:12,156 Speaker 7: We see evidence coming from all over the South that 452 00:29:12,196 --> 00:29:14,156 Speaker 7: the only people who want to celebrate the fourth of 453 00:29:14,236 --> 00:29:17,556 Speaker 7: July are freed people. It's not Southern whites who are 454 00:29:17,636 --> 00:29:20,916 Speaker 7: very silent and hate the Fourth of July. Interestingly enough, 455 00:29:21,436 --> 00:29:23,636 Speaker 7: at that point, and black people really sort of seem 456 00:29:23,676 --> 00:29:27,476 Speaker 7: to tie their demands and their freedom claims and their 457 00:29:27,596 --> 00:29:31,716 Speaker 7: rights to the national government, to the Union army and 458 00:29:31,796 --> 00:29:33,876 Speaker 7: to celebrating the nation. 459 00:29:34,916 --> 00:29:37,756 Speaker 2: Shirts then takes a train to Atlanta. He spends the 460 00:29:37,796 --> 00:29:41,196 Speaker 2: weekend there and finds yet more lawlessness. 461 00:29:41,596 --> 00:29:44,596 Speaker 9: The planters in that region seem to have combined to 462 00:29:44,676 --> 00:29:47,876 Speaker 9: keep the Negroes in their former state of subjection and 463 00:29:47,916 --> 00:29:50,196 Speaker 9: to kill those that refuse to submit. 464 00:29:51,676 --> 00:29:54,436 Speaker 8: There's a regular drumbeat at this time of open, regular 465 00:29:54,516 --> 00:29:59,356 Speaker 8: violence against African Americans four willion slaved people across the South. 466 00:30:03,476 --> 00:30:05,836 Speaker 8: One scar at the time estimates that there's a murder 467 00:30:05,836 --> 00:30:08,876 Speaker 8: a day happening somewhere, and Enshirt sees a lot of it. 468 00:30:09,636 --> 00:30:13,116 Speaker 9: The demoralization of the people is frightful to behold in 469 00:30:13,156 --> 00:30:18,396 Speaker 9: its manifestations. Travelers are frequently attacked on the public highways. 470 00:30:18,676 --> 00:30:22,956 Speaker 9: Cotton is stolen in enormous quantities, horses and mules are 471 00:30:23,036 --> 00:30:25,916 Speaker 9: run off whenever they are not watched with the utmost care, 472 00:30:26,636 --> 00:30:30,476 Speaker 9: and the perpetrators are almost never arrested and punished. 473 00:30:31,436 --> 00:30:34,236 Speaker 8: I'd say the general direction of the whole trip is 474 00:30:34,796 --> 00:30:37,476 Speaker 8: as he moves further south and certainly further west, he 475 00:30:37,556 --> 00:30:40,436 Speaker 8: runs into more and more chaos, and more and more violence, 476 00:30:40,476 --> 00:30:43,556 Speaker 8: and more and more kind of evil plans by former 477 00:30:43,556 --> 00:30:47,556 Speaker 8: confederates to do whatever they can to get as close 478 00:30:47,596 --> 00:30:49,236 Speaker 8: to re enslaving people as possible. 479 00:30:50,516 --> 00:30:53,196 Speaker 2: Schurtz finally reaches the end of his journey in New 480 00:30:53,356 --> 00:30:57,236 Speaker 2: Orleans in September. He's been traveling for two months through 481 00:30:57,236 --> 00:31:03,036 Speaker 2: a treacherous landscape. He is by now completely exhausted and miserable. 482 00:31:03,756 --> 00:31:07,636 Speaker 2: He writes about sweltering nights in the wretched country taverns 483 00:31:07,716 --> 00:31:11,556 Speaker 2: and about knights spend in desperate fights with ravenous swarms 484 00:31:11,556 --> 00:31:15,196 Speaker 2: of mosquitoes. He gets dengey fever, or as he calls it, 485 00:31:15,636 --> 00:31:20,396 Speaker 2: break bone fever, and he's just appalled by all that 486 00:31:20,436 --> 00:31:21,716 Speaker 2: he has witnessed in the South. 487 00:31:22,436 --> 00:31:26,756 Speaker 9: This is the most shiftless, most demoralized people I have 488 00:31:26,836 --> 00:31:30,316 Speaker 9: ever seen. If I can only make my main report, 489 00:31:31,156 --> 00:31:33,676 Speaker 9: I shall open the eyes of the people of the North. 490 00:31:36,916 --> 00:31:40,196 Speaker 2: Shirts returns to Washington, DC. He's ready to write a 491 00:31:40,236 --> 00:31:44,436 Speaker 2: report to the President documenting all the devastation and lawlessness 492 00:31:44,516 --> 00:31:48,956 Speaker 2: he's seen. This is precisely the assignment Andrew Johnson had 493 00:31:48,996 --> 00:31:52,476 Speaker 2: given him, and now Shirts has the evidence he needs 494 00:31:52,556 --> 00:31:54,836 Speaker 2: to make the President face reality. 495 00:31:55,396 --> 00:31:57,596 Speaker 8: This reconstruction thing is not going to be fast, it's 496 00:31:57,636 --> 00:31:59,116 Speaker 8: not going to be easy, and it's going to take 497 00:31:59,156 --> 00:31:59,996 Speaker 8: effort on our part. 498 00:32:00,556 --> 00:32:03,956 Speaker 2: But Andrew Johnson is no longer interested in what Carl 499 00:32:03,996 --> 00:32:05,276 Speaker 2: Schurtz has to say. 500 00:32:05,596 --> 00:32:08,036 Speaker 8: He doesn't want Shirts around anymore. He doesn't want Shirts 501 00:32:08,076 --> 00:32:10,956 Speaker 8: involved anymore. He seems to regret ever giving him the 502 00:32:10,956 --> 00:32:12,116 Speaker 8: position to begin with. 503 00:32:12,436 --> 00:32:16,436 Speaker 2: And he certainly doesn't want to publish a report. Schertz 504 00:32:16,876 --> 00:32:20,836 Speaker 2: writes it anyway. He includes everything he has seen, organized 505 00:32:20,836 --> 00:32:24,436 Speaker 2: by topic, the rampant violence against black people and the 506 00:32:24,516 --> 00:32:29,156 Speaker 2: quote utter absence of national feeling among Southern whites. He 507 00:32:29,236 --> 00:32:31,516 Speaker 2: calls for troops to stay in the South, for black 508 00:32:31,556 --> 00:32:34,596 Speaker 2: suffrage to be a condition of any Confederate state's re 509 00:32:34,796 --> 00:32:37,276 Speaker 2: entry into the Union. He says there needs to be 510 00:32:37,316 --> 00:32:41,716 Speaker 2: a reconstruction of the quote whole organism of Southern society 511 00:32:42,196 --> 00:32:45,876 Speaker 2: to bring it in harmony with the rest of American society. 512 00:32:45,916 --> 00:32:46,516 Speaker 1: This is the. 513 00:32:46,516 --> 00:32:49,756 Speaker 2: Report he delivers to Andrew Johnson, and which he gives 514 00:32:49,796 --> 00:32:51,436 Speaker 2: to Johnson's Republican enemies. 515 00:32:54,876 --> 00:32:58,196 Speaker 7: I think Johnson miscalculates enormously. 516 00:32:58,596 --> 00:33:02,036 Speaker 2: I mean, this is sort of a spectacular own goal 517 00:33:02,116 --> 00:33:05,516 Speaker 2: by Johnson. He finds this guy, thinking this guy will 518 00:33:05,556 --> 00:33:10,916 Speaker 2: be his kind of willing dupe. We'll go back and 519 00:33:10,956 --> 00:33:14,516 Speaker 2: someone with some credibility with the abolitionists will go and 520 00:33:15,156 --> 00:33:18,516 Speaker 2: give a nice whitewash for what's going on in the South. 521 00:33:18,516 --> 00:33:23,556 Speaker 2: That will justify Johnson's own agenda. And the guy returns 522 00:33:23,596 --> 00:33:26,756 Speaker 2: and he's not playing ball. He's determined to tell the truth. 523 00:33:27,156 --> 00:33:29,996 Speaker 2: And now Johnson's stuck. He created this mess, from this 524 00:33:30,076 --> 00:33:32,116 Speaker 2: political mess, for himself exactly. 525 00:33:32,756 --> 00:33:37,676 Speaker 7: And I think Johnson realizes then that Shirts's report and 526 00:33:37,716 --> 00:33:41,676 Speaker 7: other such reports coming out of the South is going 527 00:33:41,716 --> 00:33:46,276 Speaker 7: to result in the failure of his own restoration. 528 00:33:45,876 --> 00:33:51,516 Speaker 2: Plan, that plan being do as little as possible. Republicans 529 00:33:51,596 --> 00:33:55,676 Speaker 2: ultimately forced the President to formally submit Carl Schurtz's report 530 00:33:55,716 --> 00:33:59,556 Speaker 2: to Congress, thereby making it a fully public document. But 531 00:33:59,676 --> 00:34:03,556 Speaker 2: the President attaches a note in which he tries desperately 532 00:34:04,036 --> 00:34:07,836 Speaker 2: to obscure the facts. His damage control is kind of 533 00:34:08,676 --> 00:34:11,836 Speaker 2: it's of audacious in his In his note, he says, 534 00:34:12,396 --> 00:34:17,196 Speaker 2: perplexing questions were naturally to be expected. I love them 535 00:34:18,236 --> 00:34:22,156 Speaker 2: the grammatical construction of this, You know, mistakes were made. 536 00:34:22,956 --> 00:34:25,916 Speaker 2: Perplexing questions were naturally to be expected from the great 537 00:34:25,916 --> 00:34:28,276 Speaker 2: and sudden change in the relations between the two races. 538 00:34:28,956 --> 00:34:32,596 Speaker 2: But systems are gradually developing themselves under which the freedmen 539 00:34:32,956 --> 00:34:35,996 Speaker 2: will receive the protection to which he is justly entitled. 540 00:34:36,556 --> 00:34:39,756 Speaker 2: And then he celebrates the spirit of nationality which is 541 00:34:39,836 --> 00:34:43,436 Speaker 2: rapidly emerging. For the sectional animosity of the war. It's 542 00:34:43,516 --> 00:34:45,916 Speaker 2: like it's one plus one is three. 543 00:34:46,636 --> 00:34:51,156 Speaker 7: Absolutely, And especially for Johnson to talk about free people, right, 544 00:34:51,316 --> 00:34:54,276 Speaker 7: it is a bit in your faith, a bit rich, 545 00:34:54,436 --> 00:34:58,196 Speaker 7: exactly in your face rich. And you know, but he 546 00:34:58,276 --> 00:35:01,916 Speaker 7: really wants to tell nor that does Hey, the South 547 00:35:02,196 --> 00:35:05,116 Speaker 7: is no longer bitter and they're not bitter against the 548 00:35:05,276 --> 00:35:08,116 Speaker 7: Union or you that they have all accepted it. And 549 00:35:08,196 --> 00:35:11,676 Speaker 7: in fact, Shout has just witnessed the precise opposite. 550 00:35:16,836 --> 00:35:18,916 Speaker 8: I think one hundred thousand copies of it go out, 551 00:35:19,036 --> 00:35:21,916 Speaker 8: which is a huge number back then, and it shows 552 00:35:21,956 --> 00:35:24,476 Speaker 8: up in basically all the newspapers, and by the end 553 00:35:24,556 --> 00:35:27,516 Speaker 8: of the year, Shirtz's report is really influencing how people 554 00:35:27,556 --> 00:35:28,716 Speaker 8: are thinking about reconstruction. 555 00:35:29,836 --> 00:35:32,596 Speaker 2: Carl Schurtz's report ended up being the most radical thing 556 00:35:32,636 --> 00:35:35,356 Speaker 2: he ever did. He went on to have a successful 557 00:35:35,436 --> 00:35:40,036 Speaker 2: career and then faded into obscurity, but his report on 558 00:35:40,116 --> 00:35:42,836 Speaker 2: the condition of the South helped change the course of 559 00:35:42,916 --> 00:35:47,636 Speaker 2: history because the Republicans in Congress immediately begin to challenge 560 00:35:47,756 --> 00:35:51,676 Speaker 2: Johnson's policies. They put forth their own bold ideas for 561 00:35:51,756 --> 00:35:54,276 Speaker 2: how the country should be put back together and This 562 00:35:54,356 --> 00:35:56,796 Speaker 2: sparks what is really the first big battle between the 563 00:35:56,836 --> 00:36:01,676 Speaker 2: branches of American government, the White House versus Congress, who 564 00:36:01,716 --> 00:36:04,196 Speaker 2: will have the last word on the direction. 565 00:36:03,876 --> 00:36:04,476 Speaker 1: Of the union. 566 00:36:05,556 --> 00:36:08,756 Speaker 2: The following year, eighteen sixty six is one of the 567 00:36:08,796 --> 00:36:13,516 Speaker 2: most momentous years in American political history, and that's when 568 00:36:13,556 --> 00:36:30,316 Speaker 2: Frederick Douglas steps back into the fray. Here, I'm going 569 00:36:30,356 --> 00:36:34,516 Speaker 2: to turn our story back to our editor, Kai writ. 570 00:36:34,436 --> 00:36:37,916 Speaker 5: So you now have two starkly contrasting visions for how 571 00:36:37,956 --> 00:36:41,836 Speaker 5: the country should be put back together. There's Andrew Johnson's approach, 572 00:36:42,196 --> 00:36:45,276 Speaker 5: quick and easy, with everything essentially going. 573 00:36:45,076 --> 00:36:46,636 Speaker 3: Back to how it was before the war. 574 00:36:47,516 --> 00:36:50,396 Speaker 5: And then there's the approach Carl Schurtz advised in his 575 00:36:50,436 --> 00:36:54,636 Speaker 5: report make black people full citizens with the right to vote, 576 00:36:54,876 --> 00:36:57,596 Speaker 5: and use the military to enforce that right if need be. 577 00:36:58,636 --> 00:37:02,676 Speaker 5: In January of eighteen sixty six, Congress convenes a set 578 00:37:02,676 --> 00:37:06,396 Speaker 5: of hearings to debate the matter. They're considering a big, 579 00:37:06,676 --> 00:37:10,356 Speaker 5: sprawling constitutional amendment that will settle things once. 580 00:37:10,196 --> 00:37:10,636 Speaker 1: And for all. 581 00:37:11,436 --> 00:37:14,556 Speaker 5: This is what will ultimately become the fourteenth Amendment to 582 00:37:14,556 --> 00:37:19,396 Speaker 5: the US Constitution. And as all of this is consuming 583 00:37:19,476 --> 00:37:23,156 Speaker 5: the national conversation, Frederick Douglas leads. 584 00:37:22,876 --> 00:37:25,316 Speaker 3: A delegation of black men to the White House. 585 00:37:26,036 --> 00:37:28,916 Speaker 1: They managed to get this appointment. They weren't invited. 586 00:37:28,796 --> 00:37:31,076 Speaker 3: David Blaite again, Douglas's biographer. 587 00:37:31,636 --> 00:37:34,156 Speaker 1: They went in with a prepared statement. They were able 588 00:37:34,196 --> 00:37:36,196 Speaker 1: to get through part of their prepared state. They went 589 00:37:36,276 --> 00:37:39,036 Speaker 1: there to lobby the President of the United States for 590 00:37:39,156 --> 00:37:44,396 Speaker 1: the right to vote and protection and all the other rights. 591 00:37:44,756 --> 00:37:47,196 Speaker 1: They got through part of their prepared statement, and Johnson 592 00:37:47,236 --> 00:37:51,556 Speaker 1: interrupted them. He was not going to be preached to 593 00:37:51,636 --> 00:37:54,716 Speaker 1: by a bunch of black men. In fact, at one 594 00:37:54,716 --> 00:37:57,356 Speaker 1: point he said, I especially don't want to be preached 595 00:37:57,396 --> 00:38:00,636 Speaker 1: to by people like you, and he meant Douglas, who 596 00:38:00,676 --> 00:38:04,836 Speaker 1: can round out periods and put in fancy words, wow, 597 00:38:05,116 --> 00:38:06,036 Speaker 1: oh yeah. 598 00:38:05,796 --> 00:38:07,676 Speaker 3: People who know how to use their words. That I 599 00:38:07,676 --> 00:38:08,236 Speaker 3: don't want to be. 600 00:38:08,196 --> 00:38:11,876 Speaker 1: Stopped you speak to me like that. Johnson held the 601 00:38:11,876 --> 00:38:14,876 Speaker 1: floor for forty five minutes. Johnson went on and on 602 00:38:14,956 --> 00:38:19,636 Speaker 1: and on, and part of Johnson's speech, which is what 603 00:38:19,676 --> 00:38:22,636 Speaker 1: it was, this was not a discussion. He said, you know, 604 00:38:22,756 --> 00:38:26,276 Speaker 1: I once owned slaves. I want you to know I 605 00:38:26,436 --> 00:38:30,436 Speaker 1: owned slaves, but I never sold one. That's he said 606 00:38:30,476 --> 00:38:34,956 Speaker 1: that to them. I guess believing that would not offend them. 607 00:38:36,996 --> 00:38:40,236 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, no, no, he's really it's amazing. It 608 00:38:40,356 --> 00:38:44,556 Speaker 1: got worse. Douglas would try to interrupt that, you know, 609 00:38:44,596 --> 00:38:48,716 Speaker 1: like miss President may I, Miss President may I. And 610 00:38:48,756 --> 00:38:53,836 Speaker 1: then Johnson finally just said no, you will not speak 611 00:38:53,876 --> 00:38:57,036 Speaker 1: to me. And at some point there about fifty to 612 00:38:57,076 --> 00:39:00,996 Speaker 1: fifty five minutes in, Douglas said, well, we're finished here. 613 00:39:01,836 --> 00:39:04,796 Speaker 1: He asked his whole delegation to get up, and they 614 00:39:04,836 --> 00:39:05,356 Speaker 1: walked out. 615 00:39:08,756 --> 00:39:12,956 Speaker 7: John and can barely disguised his own racism. He doesn't 616 00:39:12,996 --> 00:39:15,756 Speaker 7: see Douglas the way Lincoln sees him as a black 617 00:39:15,836 --> 00:39:20,716 Speaker 7: leader and as somebody who's putting forth some legitimate ideas 618 00:39:20,756 --> 00:39:24,396 Speaker 7: about black rights and reconstruction. It's just the opposite. He sees. 619 00:39:24,876 --> 00:39:27,716 Speaker 7: He demeans Douglas and he calls him the N word, 620 00:39:27,916 --> 00:39:30,476 Speaker 7: and he says, oh, he cut my throat off, just 621 00:39:30,596 --> 00:39:31,636 Speaker 7: like any other slave. 622 00:39:32,476 --> 00:39:35,716 Speaker 1: Douglas said he heard it. I've always imagined Douglas turning 623 00:39:35,756 --> 00:39:40,156 Speaker 1: around looking at Andrew Johnson, you know, wishing he could, 624 00:39:41,036 --> 00:39:44,796 Speaker 1: you know, take his teeth out, but probably just walked 625 00:39:44,796 --> 00:39:47,836 Speaker 1: down and said, oh yeah. They went over to a hotel, 626 00:39:48,396 --> 00:39:51,556 Speaker 1: they wrote up a statement, they published it immediately. The 627 00:39:51,596 --> 00:39:54,836 Speaker 1: next morning in a Washington d c. Paper describing exactly 628 00:39:54,876 --> 00:39:57,836 Speaker 1: what had happened. And then Douglas wrote a new speech. 629 00:39:58,276 --> 00:40:03,796 Speaker 1: Douglas always did this when something big happens, go to 630 00:40:03,836 --> 00:40:06,516 Speaker 1: his desk, and he wouldn't know exactly what he thinks 631 00:40:06,556 --> 00:40:08,076 Speaker 1: about some until he went to his desk and he 632 00:40:08,116 --> 00:40:10,196 Speaker 1: wrote a new speech, and he called. 633 00:40:09,956 --> 00:40:14,596 Speaker 6: It Sources of Danger to the Republic. 634 00:40:15,436 --> 00:40:18,436 Speaker 1: And it's a barn burner. He just butchered Johnson in 635 00:40:18,476 --> 00:40:18,996 Speaker 1: this speech. 636 00:40:19,556 --> 00:40:24,236 Speaker 6: I know of no greater misfortunes to individuals than an 637 00:40:24,276 --> 00:40:29,436 Speaker 6: over confidence in their own perfections. And I know a 638 00:40:29,516 --> 00:40:33,476 Speaker 6: fewer misfortunes that can happen to a nation greater than 639 00:40:33,556 --> 00:40:37,316 Speaker 6: an over confidence in the perfection of its government. 640 00:40:39,716 --> 00:40:44,596 Speaker 5: Douglas opens this speech by warning, Look, don't think there's 641 00:40:44,636 --> 00:40:49,876 Speaker 5: something divine or almighty about the institutions that support American democracy. 642 00:40:50,156 --> 00:40:52,676 Speaker 5: Starting with the Constitution itself. 643 00:40:52,556 --> 00:40:58,036 Speaker 6: There were neither thunderings, nor lightnings, nor earthquakes, nor tempests, 644 00:40:58,116 --> 00:41:02,116 Speaker 6: nor any other disturbance of nature when this great law 645 00:41:02,516 --> 00:41:03,956 Speaker 6: was given to the world. 646 00:41:04,316 --> 00:41:08,316 Speaker 3: The Constitution is just a piece of paper, ideas on 647 00:41:08,396 --> 00:41:08,956 Speaker 3: a page. 648 00:41:09,196 --> 00:41:14,596 Speaker 6: It is simply a human contrivance. It is the work 649 00:41:14,796 --> 00:41:19,196 Speaker 6: of man and men struggling with many of the prejudices 650 00:41:19,236 --> 00:41:21,596 Speaker 6: and infirmities common to man. 651 00:41:22,756 --> 00:41:26,956 Speaker 5: And it is time to deal with those prejudices. Douglas says, 652 00:41:27,036 --> 00:41:29,156 Speaker 5: if you want this to be a democracy, it's got 653 00:41:29,196 --> 00:41:30,156 Speaker 5: to be a real democracy. 654 00:41:30,756 --> 00:41:34,156 Speaker 6: Make it a government of the people, buy the people, 655 00:41:34,356 --> 00:41:38,156 Speaker 6: and for the people, and for all the people, each. 656 00:41:38,156 --> 00:41:39,996 Speaker 1: For all, and all for each. 657 00:41:40,876 --> 00:41:46,476 Speaker 6: Blot out all discriminations against any person, theoretically or practically. 658 00:41:47,636 --> 00:41:51,236 Speaker 6: Keep no man from the ballot box or jewelry box 659 00:41:51,476 --> 00:41:52,916 Speaker 6: or the cartridge box. 660 00:41:52,796 --> 00:41:53,716 Speaker 1: Because of his color. 661 00:41:54,516 --> 00:41:57,836 Speaker 6: Exclude no woman from the ballot box because of her sex. 662 00:41:58,716 --> 00:42:03,236 Speaker 6: Let the government of the country rest securely down upon 663 00:42:03,276 --> 00:42:05,156 Speaker 6: the shoulders of the whole nation. 664 00:42:06,876 --> 00:42:09,836 Speaker 5: But really, in this speech, Douglas is here to talk 665 00:42:09,836 --> 00:42:13,956 Speaker 5: about leadership. He says, yes, we must update the Constitution, 666 00:42:14,236 --> 00:42:16,996 Speaker 5: But even then, no matter what is written in that document, 667 00:42:17,436 --> 00:42:22,876 Speaker 5: our liberty actually depends on something more active that That 668 00:42:23,036 --> 00:42:25,956 Speaker 5: is the lesson of the Civil War, He says, Imagine 669 00:42:25,996 --> 00:42:29,236 Speaker 5: if Lincoln had not been president during the war, imagine 670 00:42:29,596 --> 00:42:33,116 Speaker 5: the wartime commander in chief as the guy we got. 671 00:42:32,956 --> 00:42:40,836 Speaker 6: Now had that other embodiment of political treachery, meanness, baseness, ingratitude, 672 00:42:41,116 --> 00:42:44,276 Speaker 6: the vilist of the vile, the basist of the base, 673 00:42:44,596 --> 00:42:49,556 Speaker 6: the most execrable of the execrable of modern times. He 674 00:42:49,836 --> 00:42:56,276 Speaker 6: who shall be nameless occupied the presidential chair. Your magnificent 675 00:42:56,356 --> 00:43:01,076 Speaker 6: Republic might have been numbered with the things that were. 676 00:43:01,916 --> 00:43:03,836 Speaker 5: Douglas wants them to get rid of the veto. He 677 00:43:03,876 --> 00:43:06,316 Speaker 5: wants them to limit presidents to one term, and he 678 00:43:06,356 --> 00:43:09,036 Speaker 5: wants them to get rid of Johnson's ability to pardon 679 00:43:09,276 --> 00:43:10,836 Speaker 5: Confederates for sure. 680 00:43:11,396 --> 00:43:14,756 Speaker 3: The president, he says, has too much power. 681 00:43:15,396 --> 00:43:21,036 Speaker 6: Mister Johnson has sometimes overstepped this power in certain conditions 682 00:43:21,036 --> 00:43:26,596 Speaker 6: of his mind, which are quite frequent, and mistaken himself 683 00:43:26,836 --> 00:43:31,716 Speaker 6: for the United States instead of the president of the 684 00:43:31,916 --> 00:43:32,796 Speaker 6: United States. 685 00:43:34,276 --> 00:43:37,996 Speaker 5: There's a line in it that gives me chills when 686 00:43:38,036 --> 00:43:41,476 Speaker 5: I read it today. He says, our government may at 687 00:43:41,556 --> 00:43:44,236 Speaker 5: some point be in the hands of a bad man. 688 00:43:44,596 --> 00:43:46,396 Speaker 3: When in the hands of a good man, it is 689 00:43:46,476 --> 00:43:47,596 Speaker 3: all well enough. 690 00:43:48,116 --> 00:43:51,116 Speaker 5: We ought to have our government so shaped that even 691 00:43:51,156 --> 00:43:53,116 Speaker 5: when it is in the hands of a bad man, 692 00:43:53,236 --> 00:43:54,396 Speaker 5: we shall be safe. 693 00:43:55,276 --> 00:43:57,436 Speaker 1: Indeed, you know, can you imagine the first time I 694 00:43:57,476 --> 00:43:59,596 Speaker 1: read that? I mean, it was well, I'd have read 695 00:43:59,596 --> 00:44:01,356 Speaker 1: it before at some point, But you know, you can 696 00:44:01,396 --> 00:44:04,916 Speaker 1: read a Douglas speech six times and find something new 697 00:44:04,916 --> 00:44:09,876 Speaker 1: in it. But I used to ends. I used to 698 00:44:10,036 --> 00:44:13,756 Speaker 1: end talks on Douglas with that during Trump's first term, 699 00:44:14,716 --> 00:44:17,076 Speaker 1: then just end with that. I wouldn't mention Trump. I 700 00:44:17,076 --> 00:44:20,356 Speaker 1: mean I didn't have to. You know, it was so poignant. 701 00:44:22,516 --> 00:44:24,516 Speaker 1: But you know what he's saying there is we got 702 00:44:24,516 --> 00:44:27,196 Speaker 1: problems without our constitution. There are structural problems with it, 703 00:44:27,276 --> 00:44:32,156 Speaker 1: but we still do depend on human character on some level. 704 00:44:32,636 --> 00:44:36,796 Speaker 1: It's such a prescient warning for all sorts of political systems, 705 00:44:36,836 --> 00:44:43,196 Speaker 1: all sorts of places in the world. Democracy is a 706 00:44:43,196 --> 00:44:48,836 Speaker 1: great thing, but it first needs law and structure. But 707 00:44:48,876 --> 00:44:54,196 Speaker 1: then in these people who believe in it, and one 708 00:44:54,236 --> 00:44:56,076 Speaker 1: without the other probably won't work. 709 00:45:00,316 --> 00:45:03,236 Speaker 5: Frederick Douglas took this speech on the road campaigning for 710 00:45:03,316 --> 00:45:08,036 Speaker 5: a bold new constitution, and Andrew Johnson barnstormed across the 711 00:45:08,076 --> 00:45:11,236 Speaker 5: country with his own speech. It was an election year 712 00:45:11,356 --> 00:45:14,556 Speaker 5: on top of everything else, so the president wanted voters 713 00:45:14,556 --> 00:45:17,116 Speaker 5: to give him a new Congress, one that would support 714 00:45:17,156 --> 00:45:20,156 Speaker 5: his vision for a quick and tidy reconstruction. 715 00:45:20,876 --> 00:45:23,836 Speaker 7: He even says the real traders to the Union were 716 00:45:23,836 --> 00:45:27,196 Speaker 7: not the former Confederates, but they are the radical Republicans 717 00:45:27,196 --> 00:45:30,236 Speaker 7: of the abolitionists. These are the real enemies to the Union. 718 00:45:32,956 --> 00:45:38,276 Speaker 7: Johnson is stuck in this very rigid racist view, so 719 00:45:38,396 --> 00:45:41,476 Speaker 7: he thinks the majority will support him because he can 720 00:45:41,476 --> 00:45:44,356 Speaker 7: play the race guard, and he does that constantly. If 721 00:45:44,396 --> 00:45:47,556 Speaker 7: you give black people rights, you're taking them away from whites. 722 00:45:48,356 --> 00:45:51,956 Speaker 7: He says that constantly, and he's stunned when northern whites 723 00:45:52,756 --> 00:45:56,916 Speaker 7: do not get duped by his race guard because they're 724 00:45:56,996 --> 00:46:01,716 Speaker 7: seeing what's happening in the South. So the sympathy is 725 00:46:01,756 --> 00:46:05,076 Speaker 7: for freed people at that point. There is no sort 726 00:46:05,116 --> 00:46:08,916 Speaker 7: of racial unity between northern whites and Southern whites. And 727 00:46:08,956 --> 00:46:14,356 Speaker 7: this issue Johnson completely mistreats the political situation. 728 00:46:14,636 --> 00:46:20,356 Speaker 1: And it totally backfired on Jones. The Republicans overwhelming won 729 00:46:20,516 --> 00:46:25,236 Speaker 1: those congressional off year elections both houses and returned a 730 00:46:25,396 --> 00:46:29,036 Speaker 1: veto proof two thirds majority of both houses of Congress 731 00:46:29,436 --> 00:46:32,316 Speaker 1: that next fall. 732 00:46:31,196 --> 00:46:33,956 Speaker 5: And for the next three years from eighteen sixty six 733 00:46:34,036 --> 00:46:38,996 Speaker 5: to eighteen seventy, Congress passes law after law over andrew 734 00:46:39,076 --> 00:46:43,036 Speaker 5: Johnson's vetos. They actually grow so tired of his obstruction 735 00:46:43,436 --> 00:46:45,916 Speaker 5: that they impeach him in eighteen sixty eight. He's the 736 00:46:45,956 --> 00:46:49,596 Speaker 5: first ever president to claim that dishonor Johnson survives by 737 00:46:49,596 --> 00:46:52,276 Speaker 5: a single vote, but it hardly matters. He's a lame 738 00:46:52,356 --> 00:46:55,676 Speaker 5: duck president, a leader without a party, and with Johnson 739 00:46:55,676 --> 00:47:00,036 Speaker 5: out of the way, Congressional Republicans radically redesigned the United 740 00:47:00,076 --> 00:47:00,996 Speaker 5: States of America. 741 00:47:01,796 --> 00:47:05,836 Speaker 7: This would be a tremendous moment. It is kind of 742 00:47:05,876 --> 00:47:10,036 Speaker 7: a refounding of the republic because suddenly you get this 743 00:47:10,156 --> 00:47:14,076 Speaker 7: momentum for the first federal civil rights laws that are 744 00:47:14,116 --> 00:47:19,916 Speaker 7: pasted to this type, the constitutional amendments, especially the Fourteenth Amendment. 745 00:47:19,836 --> 00:47:21,356 Speaker 3: The Fourteenth Amendment. 746 00:47:22,796 --> 00:47:26,516 Speaker 5: Establishing the idea of universal citizenship to anyone born in 747 00:47:26,516 --> 00:47:29,996 Speaker 5: the United States, regardless of race or any other status, 748 00:47:30,236 --> 00:47:35,396 Speaker 5: with equality before the law for all citizens, the Fifteenth 749 00:47:35,436 --> 00:47:39,316 Speaker 5: Amendment establishing voting rights for black men at least, and 750 00:47:39,636 --> 00:47:41,996 Speaker 5: civil rights laws that spell out how all these new 751 00:47:42,076 --> 00:47:43,476 Speaker 5: rules are going to work. 752 00:47:43,636 --> 00:47:49,756 Speaker 7: The founding principles of an interracial democracy in the United States. 753 00:47:49,996 --> 00:47:52,716 Speaker 7: It's really an exciting moment in American history. 754 00:47:53,956 --> 00:47:56,836 Speaker 5: Black Southerners leap at the opportunity as well. 755 00:47:56,916 --> 00:48:00,236 Speaker 3: They rush to the polls to vote. Thousands of black men. 756 00:48:00,116 --> 00:48:02,756 Speaker 5: Hold public office, and they helped create some of the 757 00:48:02,796 --> 00:48:06,116 Speaker 5: most progressive state governments in the history of this country. 758 00:48:06,556 --> 00:48:09,756 Speaker 5: States like South Carolina, create the first public slace schools, 759 00:48:10,076 --> 00:48:14,436 Speaker 5: expand legal rights for women, abolished debtors, prisons, and so 760 00:48:14,596 --> 00:48:15,076 Speaker 5: much more. 761 00:48:21,516 --> 00:48:24,316 Speaker 1: They did engineer a remaking in the United States. And 762 00:48:24,356 --> 00:48:28,556 Speaker 1: it's the only time for that brief moment from essentially 763 00:48:28,596 --> 00:48:33,236 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty six to sixty eight sixty nine seventy, that 764 00:48:33,236 --> 00:48:36,556 Speaker 1: that moment when the term radical had a sort of 765 00:48:36,636 --> 00:48:38,836 Speaker 1: consensus traction. 766 00:48:40,436 --> 00:48:45,236 Speaker 3: It's hard to matter in the United States. Radical was then. 767 00:48:45,276 --> 00:48:48,636 Speaker 1: In power for three years. Yeah, by the way, the 768 00:48:48,636 --> 00:48:51,756 Speaker 1: greatest legacy of the original Republican Party. Try this on 769 00:48:52,196 --> 00:48:58,956 Speaker 1: as an irony. They believed above all in activist aggressive 770 00:48:59,836 --> 00:49:03,876 Speaker 1: use of federal power. I mean, look at the ways 771 00:49:03,956 --> 00:49:07,836 Speaker 1: they had just used federal power. That period is the 772 00:49:07,916 --> 00:49:13,716 Speaker 1: laboratory where an American government, the idea of government was reinvented, 773 00:49:13,876 --> 00:49:16,116 Speaker 1: for better or worse. You can hate it, you can 774 00:49:16,196 --> 00:49:20,116 Speaker 1: love it, you can like parts of it. But that's 775 00:49:20,156 --> 00:49:22,116 Speaker 1: the ear you got to you want to understand rights 776 00:49:22,156 --> 00:49:24,076 Speaker 1: in America, you've got to go to reconstruction. You want 777 00:49:24,076 --> 00:49:27,756 Speaker 1: to understand the role of government and society. Got to 778 00:49:27,756 --> 00:49:30,276 Speaker 1: go to reconstruction. You want to talk about what governments 779 00:49:30,276 --> 00:49:32,196 Speaker 1: other people and what people o their governments, you've got 780 00:49:32,236 --> 00:49:34,356 Speaker 1: to go to reconstruction. You want to talk about race 781 00:49:34,436 --> 00:49:37,636 Speaker 1: in America, you've got to go to reconstruction, because it 782 00:49:37,796 --> 00:49:42,476 Speaker 1: kind of all starts there in the modern sense, and 783 00:49:42,676 --> 00:49:47,116 Speaker 1: we relive it now every day, all the time. 784 00:49:48,436 --> 00:49:51,276 Speaker 2: All the time. I would add that if you want 785 00:49:51,276 --> 00:49:54,556 Speaker 2: to understand education in America, you've got to go to 786 00:49:54,676 --> 00:49:58,836 Speaker 2: reconstruction as well, because that's when public education as we 787 00:49:58,956 --> 00:50:02,036 Speaker 2: know it was established and much of it, but the 788 00:50:02,076 --> 00:50:04,236 Speaker 2: people who'd just recently been enslaved 789 00:50:11,356 --> 00:50:11,476 Speaker 6: La