WEBVTT - 131: The Vow & Mounds with Nikki Mayard 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.480 It's two thirty four am in the center of the 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:16.120 world and you're listening to Night Call. Hello and welcome 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:19.440 tonight Call, a call in show for our dystopian reality 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:22.840 I am Emily Oshida. I am in Los Angeles, and 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.160 with me on the other line as always are Mom 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:28.639 and Lambert and Tess Lynch. Today we will be joined 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.639 by our special guest, Nicki Mayer. We'll be talking about 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.720 the vow. We're gonna be talking about some voting stuff. 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:40.280 Uh and surprisingly shockingly more pyramids. The pyramids are coming 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.800 out the wazoo. Everybody's got a pyramid, so uh. But 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.880 first we're going to take a night call. Hi, Night Call. 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:54.000 I have a prediction. I think that Katherine Oxenberg, the 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:59.480 former Dallas actress and current Nexium mom warrior, is going 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.560 to be asked as a real housewife of Beverly Hills. 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.640 I just feels like she has the right category. I mean, 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:11.280 she looks great, so I'm wondering if we will see 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:16.400 that in Thanks by well, great question. We are joined 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:20.399 to answer this question by our friend Nicki Mayard, who 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:24.320 is a writer for Adult Swims, Laser Wolf and Netflix 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:30.360 Enter Galactic Nikki. Welcome, Hi, Hi, This question is great. 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.080 Has this occurred to you at all? No, But I 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.160 have a really weird relationship with the Real Housewives franchise. 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.280 I really love it, but I don't over the last 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.520 few years, I don't really watch TV as well anymore, 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.000 but my whole timeline does so I know things without 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.080 having to watch. It's kind of like my relationship with 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.040 Keeping Up with the Kardashians. Yes, I'm like, I watched 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.760 enough seasons that now I can just watch other people 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.200 talk about seasons. You can keep up by osmosis. It's 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:01.400 a multi platform experience. I'm planning like a mega binge 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.000 watch of like all of them if I can, like 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.800 in the deep winter, in the deep Covid winter, when 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:10.480 my brain is done. I got back into Beverly Hills recently. 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.720 I had the same thought. So they're messy. I like them. 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.800 I'm trying to get into Potomac. Oh, Potomac is the 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.120 best because I got into them last season because I 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:21.720 was like, yes anything that's like a lot of black 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:26.280 women are like fine. Potomac is amazing because they still 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.800 let their real lives be plot lines on the show, 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:33.200 where on on Beverly Hills, they like keep it. They 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.040 have to have like fake plot lines for the show 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:37.080 and then if something like something real did happen this 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:41.120 season seemingly, which was a good season where Denise Richard's 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:47.400 uh may a sexy gay affair with Brandy Glanville. But 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.560 the main reason I think Katherine Oxenberg couldn't be on 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.799 Real house Lives of Beverly Hills that they all live 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.720 in the valley now and Malibu and it's too far. 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:03.280 She's just a real housewife of Malibua. But not to 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:06.120 make this too much like the Californians, but getting from 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.200 the from the West Valley to Malibu is actually not 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.640 a huge schlap. I mean, let's be honest. They are 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.880 closer together than like Hollywood, and Malibu is like an 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.000 hour and a half away from where I would watch 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.520 The Real Housewives of Malibu if they wanted to do 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:24.320 a second l a franchise. Wasn't Yolande At some point 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.799 Yolanda was a Malibu and Yolanda is just like Catherine Oxenburg. Yeah, 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:32.480 they're the same genre of women. I feel like Cather 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:36.480 is also a royalty, right, so I'm imagining like she's 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:40.760 got that European kind of Genia favorite. I watched. I 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.600 watched with the watched with the subtitles on, and when 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:49.560 she's talking to her mom, it's just says princess, and 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:57.600 you're like, oh, Princess, Nikki. I was going to ask you. 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:01.400 We were talking before we started recording about whether or 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.960 not we have been able to actually watch every episode 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.680 of the VOW so far. Have you watched every episode? 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.280 I've watched every episode. It's eight, right, the finality hasn't 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.200 happened yet, right, Yeah, I watched every episode. We're all 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.760 in here on the VOWE, even though it is the 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.240 pacing of the VOW is so incredibly slow. I am 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:22.320 all in. I will say I'm not up to date, 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.480 but I don't mind being spoiled because I think, as 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:29.080 we'll discuss the dissemb like the the distribution of information 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.800 that the VOW is is uh you know doing, is 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.039 very manipulative. So I don't mind like being spoiled. Let's 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:40.599 talk about that. So on the most recent episode, episode eight, 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.960 to spoil you, Emily, all of a sudden, they like 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.560 revealed all the real stuff that they haven't been showing 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.680 the entire show about Keith just being a straight up 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:55.719 men's rights activists. Yeah, he's literally a living mentalist's disgusting. 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.279 It's also just like I was kind d of saying 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.599 that I liked the show even though it is edited, 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.279 super weird and the information is laid out in a 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.240 super strange way, Like they have never given us a 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.479 bio of Keith Ranieri. Even though we're eight episodes into 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.760 the show. We don't know like what his childhood was like, 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:19.000 which seems relevant for well, wasn't it he was a 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.919 judo champion at age eleven or something. We hear what 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.600 he tells people in next year hatched out of an 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:29.360 egg and was immediately good at judo. That is his biography, 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.359 long as you called it like, it's kind of like 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:35.320 the Last Dance. Be similar to the Last Dance where 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.359 it's like you're just it's like like it was birthed, 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:44.000 it was meant to be destined. That's that's like I 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:48.880 feel like Keith Vaneery like became he was born with 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:53.840 his barrel chest and rounded shoulders. No, it was like 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.360 super It's just like the Last Dance because it's edited, 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.400 the timeline makes no sense and they keep jumping around 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:03.359 back in time, so you're like, wait, I thought we 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:05.440 were up to this and then they're like, oh no, 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.960 now we're back at the beginning of doss or whatever. 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.080 It just is very confusing, but maybe that is to 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.120 emulate the feeling of being an occult. I don't know. 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.840 The first time that I noticed this, it wasn't with 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:22.960 anything so um, I don't know, Damnan or anything. It 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.480 was just the omission of the fact that, um, yeah, 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.720 Sarah Edmondson that she was married and was like married 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:33.400 within Nexium and had a partner in Nexium and none 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.000 of that. Like we spent maybe two episodes with her 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.760 before we learned that, which it's not like crucial information, 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:41.880 but it really changes the way that you think of 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.480 her within the organization, like being married to somebody within it, 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:49.240 like at an all next cum ceremony. Like up until 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.800 that point, it felt like, oh, she's just like trying 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:53.839 out this thing and she's on an adventure and she's 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.320 discovering herself. But it's like, no, this was like you 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.600 were super installed at this point. It wasn't like and 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.520 you were, you know, opening centers and stuff. This person 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:06.119 everybody making this documentary was so deep and nexing um 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:09.320 is what you find out eventually. Yeah, Nikki, you had 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:12.960 some good thoughts just about the cult in general. I 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:14.960 think I think, like what so when I first started 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:16.600 watching it, Okay, the first thing I didn't like was 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:18.680 how they made it seem like Sarah and Mark wereth thing. 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:20.320 And then they were like, oh wait, you guys were 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.040 married to separate people, and I was like, why did 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.840 we started this way to go this way? I didn't 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.920 need the weird fake relationship for an episode. And then 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.640 they're like, we're just friends, and I was like, I questioned, 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.520 Like that whole framing made me feel really weird. And 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.960 then on top of that, like you're moving through it 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.840 and you're like they're not really telling you where they 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:42.960 come from either. So like with the bio, the lack 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.000 of bio of Keith Reneering, you don't have a bio 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:46.920 on any of these people, I don't know where they're from. 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.240 I don't know what if they're really I'm assuming all 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.760 of them are rich. I just am because I'm looking 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:55.200 around at their houses and I'm like, and their ability 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.400 to travel and yeah, and it's like like it was 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:00.040 nothing like everyone was like I went to all but 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.160 I was like, you just packed up, like no questions asked. 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:08.680 So I I'm like, there's a lot of like, um, 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.480 it's yeah, it's like a very tight framework and I'm 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:13.640 like addicted to it because of that, but also like 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.600 the hell are all of you? Yeah? I mean Mark, 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:19.840 I feel like we get the most background on But 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.720 it's also because I mean you can't really talk about 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.280 Mark without talking about what the bleek doing now, so 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:27.080 we you know, and then you're like, Okay, he has 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.640 money because he is a filmmaker and had this, you know, 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.520 a couple of pretty successful movies and the pre Q 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.600 and on Zone. But yeah, like I but other than that, 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.600 it's like, oh I was an actress. It's like I 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.160 don't know, like how does she have that? I mean, 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.160 that's what I'm saying, Like where did you come from? 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:47.880 Like are you like a trust fund person who needed 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:49.120 something to do and went to l A and try 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.280 to be an actress? Are you from the Midwest and 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:53.319 you really worked your way over there? So that those 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.640 things to me make a difference in how I'm understanding 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:01.800 how you came to uh executive success program? Yeah, you 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.120 know what I mean, Like I have my ideas and 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.160 also like I didn't feel the funny thing is in 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.880 the beginning, I noticed that I didn't feel like anyone 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.240 was particularly dumb, whereas like where I'm obsessed with cult 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:16.240 stuff because I'm always like how and I always said 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.760 how like I'm always how from the Keith perspective, always 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:20.880 like how do you get people to just hang onto 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:25.199 your every word? And but when I thought about it, 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:27.200 I was like, when they first started it, I was like, Okay, 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.280 I get it. This is like a like one thousand 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.400 of those self improvement classes, you know what I mean. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.400 And I and like I could see how they got 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.120 into it like it was. I wasn't like, oh, this 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:39.600 is weird. You went out of your way and started 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:43.080 dressing and alread and moved into some weird plane in Oregon, 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.120 you know, Like I'm like, oh, this sounds like you 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.679 were taking some classes to try to get yourself together. 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.920 But like the Sashes, when we get to the Sashes, 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.719 nobody was like, is there a dweeb in charge? He 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:59.280 was acting class Like we We talked on the podcast 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.240 a few weeks ago about how the in the beginning, 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.000 in the first two episodes or so, it really looked 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.800 exactly like any kind of acting class or like a 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.200 really intense writer's group, and so you can see how 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.280 it would appeal to people in the entertainment industry. But 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:17.240 the sashes, it's true that when it's really the juxtaposition 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.440 of the visuals, you know, of them wearing the sashes 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:24.480 and them doing these strange presentations and stuff, and it's 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.920 you juxtaposed that with what's supposedly the basis of this organization, 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.720 and you're like, there's a really big disconnect here. You 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.360 guys are acting pretty cuckoo, and they act like it's 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:36.800 nothing when they started calling him vanguard. But I'm like, 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:39.559 that's the thing that made you susceptible to a cult. 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.640 I need a little more background about who you are 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.599 to help me understand why you heard the word vanguard 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.360 and you weren't. Like. I think there's a group vibe 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:49.640 thing though, and I think that's the thing that that 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:51.800 I mean, that's the cult thing in general. But I 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:53.800 think that's also something that a lot of these people 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:56.200 shares that like they wanted to be, like in a club. 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.040 They wanted to And so it's like, if if everybody 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.880 else is saying normal to Colus guy, Vanguard, it's normal 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.520 to wear a sash like you want to be you 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.600 want to be accepted by this club. And if you say, 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:09.880 L O L what's the sash business, then you might 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.760 not get to, you know, go to the volleyball. It 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.920 feels like they really they lay it on pretty thick 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:19.520 at the beginning to get rid of anybody who might 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.840 know that this was a cult. Yeah. The people that 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:26.280 stay are all like a certain type of person. And 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.240 I think I said the other day, like there's no 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.720 black people in that car, that's right, and that is remarkable, 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:37.240 like not even like one random like oh hey, you know, 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.200 how did you end up here? There was one? There 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.400 are people in the pictures there there are people in 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.880 the classes, like there are people in the classes, but 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.440 you can there's a really good one. There's one. There's 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.440 like two people. There's one lady that's in the classes, 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.200 and it kind of seems like she's a part, but 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.720 she's never shown again, so you can tell that, you know, 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.360 if she is, it's like she's still in like worker 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:58.800 B mode. And then there's a picture of a guy 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.720 at one of the like they like show a picture 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.640 and there's a black dude and he's literally made his 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:05.920 eyes are like popping out of his head, like he's 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.959 like looking at the person next to him like what deep. 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.040 But there is also there's the women. So there's the 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:17.960 anonymous source, um, the Brooklyn and she was brought in 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.720 by a black woman. She said yes and she and 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.280 she was like specifically thrown by like oh and it 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.240 was dass too. So it was like talking about the 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.760 master slave thing and her being like really like this 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:33.720 is what you're like. It's not even like but like 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:35.679 as I really feel like like when she says she's 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:37.520 in Brooklyn, I was like, yeah, this woman literally looked 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:39.199 at her. I was like, it's not even really like that, 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:41.760 Like I can hear the voice. I was like, it's 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.080 like my brother when he's like getting my mom, you know, 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:45.520 Like I'm like, I know the voice, I know the 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:47.360 voice that she used to get you to do this. 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.600 But also but also that like that I think, Um, 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.120 when I say that, it's not to say, uh, like 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.720 we're less susceptible to cults, is to say that, like 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.600 this is clearly also speaks to the class of people 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.640 that were in this group and how they like actively 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.280 we're not really trying to let in people that didn't 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.280 look like them, you know what I'm saying, Like the 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.760 reason I love the vow. It's like my favorite genre 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.760 of movie show anything, which is white people being horrible 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:15.680 to white people. It's like no one has to watch 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.560 any trauma because everyone's just like I'll keeping it inside 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.720 internal that's great, Like everyone here is privilege fantastic. That's 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.719 why kath and Oxenburg belongs on the house as of 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.319 Beverly Hills. That's like the peak of that genre. She's like, 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.160 I gotta She's like, I gotta get my daughter arrested. 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:37.160 I'm like, fascinating, fascinating, fascinating. Guy's exciting news. India Oxenburg. 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.160 She got out of next m I think also they 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.800 got a season two I don't know if here, yeah, 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.240 like season two of what. As soon as they got 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.120 up to like this woman lives in Malibu in this 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.800 beautiful palace and she was on a soap opera and 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.280 she's like a white woman whose daughter is named India, 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.400 I was like, I know these people totally. So this 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:00.240 is like an aspect of the show that I want 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:01.960 to get on that I don't think we've talked about before. 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.160 And it's sort of that like white people being horrible 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.400 to each other genre, But it's also like there's something 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.240 about the opening of the opening title sequence of the 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:13.560 show that rubs me the wrong way, like souper like 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.079 from day one. First of all, like I don't know 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.560 why the filmmaking team who makes it are are referred 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.680 to as the others, but it sounds that sounds culty 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.840 already like and it's with like and it's without the 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:30.800 last e and it's it's the tumblers tumblers. Um. So 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:33.360 there's this yeah, this thing of like Okay, there's already 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.200 this sort of like new ag wo Wou collective, it's 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:41.360 making this documentary. And then the opening is like these 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.440 images of our main subjects like Bonnie and Mark and Sarah, 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.120 like having these introspective walks and staring at the water, 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.480 and it's very much like you know, like searching stock 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:57.440 photos for like troubled woman victim something like that. Uh, 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.040 And it's all this like it feels like we're and 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:04.440 I watched this show about these people who are purely 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.800 and specifically victims healing from this trauma. Like it's a 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:13.720 very like healing from trauma like self help type imagery 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.040 and vibe and that I think it should have been 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:18.920 a red flag to me when I started watching this 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.880 because it's so much more complicated than that, and I 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.720 don't think the show is equipped to deal with that 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.600 because they are getting their story from this very specific 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:33.000 side UM that is just as culpable in many ways. 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.960 You haven't even watched episode eight yet, right, So episode 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.520 eight I was I had to pacee. That was the 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.760 one that actually like set because that one actually features 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.160 like you get to see what the abuses, like what 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.880 the actual problem with this cult was. And the thing 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:54.120 that blew my mind when I watched UM episode eight 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:56.600 was the lack of accountability. Like that was the point 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:01.400 where I was like Mark, honestly like my Like, you know, 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.160 there's a scene where there's a scene on the pier 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.080 where Nippi basically is like what are you doing? Like 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.640 why are you trying to talk yourself? Because he's being like, 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:11.520 we're good people. It was a good thing. And my 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:16.400 theory is that Mark wants to be Keith like he's 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:18.480 And I don't know how much he believes this because 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:19.960 I don't know him and I'm not his therapist, so 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:21.960 I'm not gonna conjecture too much on it, but it's 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:23.960 like I believe that he wants to be Keith. He 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.320 believes that there's a good way to be Keith, and 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:29.280 I'm like, the fact that you even want to be 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.080 this is already bad. But there's no way to make 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:35.280 wanting to be this person good. And I think, I mean, 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.320 i'd be interested to see him have a mental breakdown 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.680 from realizing that season two, that's what's going in season two, 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:45.280 I know. But he like interrupts his wife at the 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:49.000 end of episode eight, you know, she's her and Katherine 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.160 are laughing about like, you know, they're just laughing at 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.800 the absurdity of not one of them not saying anything 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.760 about how absurd some of the rituals looked like she 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:58.760 was sleeping in a dog bed or something, and he 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.840 just like fulies on the handle. And my favorite part 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:04.159 is as he's doing it, Bonnie looks up at him. 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.640 She goes, I'm fine, just so you know, I'm okay, 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:09.879 And I'm like, that's that should have been the title 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:14.320 sequence of the whole documentary. That's also very you know, 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.320 it ties in with the whole society of Protectors and 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.600 and Janess and how there's just this like rampant misogyny 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:22.760 that we're just finding. I mean, it's we always kind 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:24.520 of knew it was in there, but in episode eight 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.160 they really lay it there. And I think maybe Episode 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:28.800 eight was also where they talked about the fact that 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:34.280 Katherine Oxenberg had brought India into this organization. Hello. I 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.840 mean the whole time, you're thinking that she's, as the 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.400 caller put in a mom Warrior, where she's just been 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:41.800 horrified by this the entire time, but she dragged her 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.440 daughter into this and now is upset that India remains there. 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.040 You know, like when her mom stopped going, did she 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.760 not check on India and say, Hey, I'm kind of 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.679 cutting myself off from this because it feels something she 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.520 and her mom went together for like two years. See, 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.120 that's so fucked, Like like I don't know, I haven't 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.760 gone to this part it, but like you can still 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:07.000 lay out an interesting and complicated narrative that is surprising 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.919 about how people get involved in an organization like this 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:13.440 without withholding that degree of information like you're putting it 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:17.560 in episode eight. Yeah, it's crazy. I Mean somebody was saying, like, 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.639 why did I watch eight hours of this stuff to 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:21.480 get to this stuff? And I was like, well, that's 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.879 how a cult works. They're like all the interesting info 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.040 is gonna be a secret that will tell you At 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.560 the end, I will say this is incredibly fucked up. 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.640 But episode eight was like the first time that Keith 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:39.000 Ranieri shows like real cult leader charisma that you understand 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.600 why people got in this cult. It's like they show 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:44.520 all the Frank T. J. Mackie stuff that he does, 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:48.560 which is like you understand suddenly, like oh, he's not 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:52.440 just this like gentle fake youth pastor guy. His whole 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:56.199 thing is like you know, the cock is king, like 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.840 master the cunt stuff, which is like, okay, that is 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:03.119 a totally different thing than just like self improvement. You know, 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.600 they set it up well because the episode before that, 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.440 when the ladies talking about how he was playing, he 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.920 was like pressing her pressure point and that's how he 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:13.920 got her to stop smoking. But then when she came 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:15.240 out of the room, someone was like, you were in 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:16.879 there for two and a half hours, and I was like, 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:21.760 this man sent you into a few state what so 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.280 you know, like and like, you know, it's so easy 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.520 when you first see him on screen to be like like, 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:28.399 I think you described it so well, Molly, You're like 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.960 this camp counselor. I'm like, yeah, like everyone feels like 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.360 they know this dude, and like, if you have been 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.480 through certain experiences in your life or have you learn 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.399 certain things like that, he probably looks like a walking 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:41.000 red flag to you. Not to say if he doesn't 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.520 that you're any better or less. Trauma works differently, but 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.159 you know, it's like I'm looking at him and I'm like, 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.520 you know, but you know that there has to be 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:52.879 something like sure they look it to you, but you 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:54.320 know that there has to be something that got all 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:56.320 these people to believe in them. And you're watching episode 0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:00.480 eight and I think the most ridiculous part is when 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.400 he is talking about with a level tin like like 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.719 you made up these modules or whatever the hill right, 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.639 and he's like, you girls couldn't handle a tent. We 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.879 just sexually shocking because when he when he jumps up 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.520 and goes boom and then he has the woman go boo, 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:19.160 and he's like, no, that doesn't scare me at all. 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:30.040 I would have pushed him in the face. We have 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.719 to talk about this because Molly, you've been watching this 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:37.439 investigation discovery series about Keith Nary, which gets into a 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:39.800 lot of the stuff that the Vow has not gotten into, 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:43.439 and a Daily Mail article about like the fact that 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.920 he may or may not have literally killed at least 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.840 a few women. He may have murdered like four women 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:54.760 including um is her name, Pamela, who was referenced in 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:57.960 the documentary, a longtime girlfriend of his who dies of cancer. 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:00.719 But she's not the only person who have died of 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:05.520 cancer who dated Keith through neary Um. It's really yeah, 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.520 do you know about this? Nikki? Uh? Molly gave me 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:10.520