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Speaker 1: The volume callin Coward Podcast presented by FanDuel Sports Book.

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Speaker 1: Please use the promo code Colin so they know we

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Speaker 1: sent you. Please use the promo code Collins c O

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Speaker 1: l I in FanDuel Sports Book App. Sign up. Hi everybody,

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Speaker 1: and welcome in to our Wednesday podcast. We're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: a little hoops today with Marcus Thompson, who wrote a

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Speaker 1: great book on Kevin Durant, and Steph Curry, Bay Area

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Speaker 1: columnist for the Athletic Warriors, best team in the league.

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Speaker 1: He's always a fascinating listen. Plus a lot of insights

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Speaker 1: two football topics. Let's start with this. The Giants have

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Speaker 1: fired Jason Garrett and the Giants have given Freddie Kitchens

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Speaker 1: the job as coordinator for Daniel Jones, and it reminds

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Speaker 1: me of something about the quarterback position. Years ago, I

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Speaker 1: went to a Sun Bowl. I worked for a local

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Speaker 1: affiliate in Portland, Oregon KGW, and I had to cover

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Speaker 1: an Oregon football game. I think they were playing Minnesota

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Speaker 1: Glenn Mason and the Golden Gophers, I believe. And I

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Speaker 1: went down to El Paso, which is on the border

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Speaker 1: next to Warez, and Warez is a pretty hard scrabbled town,

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Speaker 1: a lot of crime and you know, not always the

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Speaker 1: safest place in the world after dark. And so I

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Speaker 1: went to a restaurant one night and Al Paso it

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Speaker 1: was on the border. And I remember going to this

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Speaker 1: restaurant and somebody who lived there said, I'm gonna take you.

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Speaker 1: It's not the best part of town. It's pretty rough,

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Speaker 1: but it's got good food. And I remember going for

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Speaker 1: a drive and it was like an industrial district and

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Speaker 1: then we got to the restaurant and it was it

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Speaker 1: looked like a former tire center. The servers were old,

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Speaker 1: it was a family, wasn't the fastest serve us and

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Speaker 1: it kind of smelled, especially in the bathrooms. But I

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Speaker 1: sat down with about four guys and it was the

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Speaker 1: best Mexican meal I'd ever had in my life. I

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Speaker 1: think we stayed there for two hours. And what it

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Speaker 1: made me think is if you get the food right,

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Speaker 1: nothing else matters. In restaurants. You can be a dive bar,

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Speaker 1: you can have dark lighting, slow, not the greatest part

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Speaker 1: of town. If the food's great, you'll go. I have

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Speaker 1: buddies that live in Detroit and Chicago and they go

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Speaker 1: to these dive burger places and they've taken me to them,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, this is it, and they're like spending

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Speaker 1: your thirty two years why. They're like, you'll know after

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Speaker 1: you have dinner, you'll figure out why. It's the same

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Speaker 1: with quarterback. If you get the quarterback right, nothing else matters.

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Speaker 1: If you look in the NFL standings today outside of

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Speaker 1: the NFC South, where Brady is in first place, and

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Speaker 1: there really is no second great quarterback in division, every

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Speaker 1: other division the two best quarterbacks are in first or

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Speaker 1: second place. Josh Allen mac Jones, Ryan Tannehill, Carson Wentz,

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Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Jeff and Herbert go

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Speaker 1: over to the NFC Dak and Jalen Hurts. Jalen Hurts

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Speaker 1: right now is the second best quarterback in that division.

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Speaker 1: Kyler Murray and Matt Stafford, Aaron Rodgers and Kirk Cousins

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Speaker 1: say what you want, Kirk's the second best quarterback in

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Speaker 1: that division. It doesn't matter. Get the quarterback right, nothing

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Speaker 1: else matters. And the Giants didn't get Daniel Jones right.

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Speaker 1: He reminds me of the quarterback Jake Locker out of Washington.

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Speaker 1: Despite having a quarterback as his head coach, Steve Sarkisian,

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Speaker 1: he couldn't complete fifty five percent of his throws in college.

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Speaker 1: He went eight to Tennessee and I called it. He's

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Speaker 1: a bust. Got to be able to make the throws.

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Speaker 1: Daniel Jones, despite having David Cutcliff a quarterback whisper at Duke,

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Speaker 1: he completed under sixty percent of his throws in a

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Speaker 1: bad conference. You can blame everybody with the Giants, but

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Speaker 1: if Daniel Jones was justin Herbert, everybody, including Jason Garrett,

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Speaker 1: would keep their job. Second thing I want to talk about,

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Speaker 1: and this is a real thing. Every profession requires a

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Speaker 1: certain attitude or aptitude to be really successful. For doctors,

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Speaker 1: you can go to Harvard be a brain surgeon. But

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Speaker 1: if your bedside manner is terrible, if you don't emotionally

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Speaker 1: connect with pay in their families, you're gonna lose business.

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Speaker 1: Patients are nervous. They want somebody to comfort them, make

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Speaker 1: them feel safe and taken care of, make their families

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Speaker 1: feel safe. That's why for a doctor, bedside manner, empathy

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Speaker 1: and patience is incredibly important. The doctors sued are not

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Speaker 1: the worst doctors read freeconomics. It's the doctors with the

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Speaker 1: poorous bedside manner. Navy Seals. You think it's about bravado encourage,

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Speaker 1: but it's not. They go on dangerous missions with a

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Speaker 1: team of other men. The bottom line is loaners do

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Speaker 1: not work with the Seals. You need guys who are

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Speaker 1: on teams in high school or college. Can you trust them?

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Speaker 1: Do they have your back? It's not about bravado encouraged.

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Speaker 1: That's just an element to it. The number one priority

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Speaker 1: is team players, trustable teammates and dangerous crises where I

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Speaker 1: think Baker Mayfield fails. Quarterback is very political. You have

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Speaker 1: to be conciliatory, You have to be a lubricator. Jay

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Speaker 1: Cutler had great talent, but he was an agitator. He

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Speaker 1: was a loaner. He didn't make people feel special. He

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Speaker 1: was the opposite of political Jim McMahon Baker Mayfield. That's

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Speaker 1: Baker's issue. Brady's greatest asset. He falls on the sword

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Speaker 1: at a press conference. He makes the young players feel

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Speaker 1: included and the veterans at the end of their career

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Speaker 1: feel important. That's being quarterback. You have to make Antonio

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Speaker 1: Brown feel like he matters because the rest of the

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Speaker 1: league acts like he doesn't. You have to make sure

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Speaker 1: that Mike Evans feels like a number one, but keep

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Speaker 1: Chris Godwin as a number two, feeling like he could

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Speaker 1: be a number one. On certain Sundays, you have to

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Speaker 1: elevate the offensive line. You got to keep your tight

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Speaker 1: ends happy. Brady's gift as any twenty year old or

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Speaker 1: twenty one year old who's ever gone to the Patriots,

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Speaker 1: you ever noticed Tom Brady comes up and introduces himself

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Speaker 1: and says, hi, I'm Tom Brady. Why everybody knows his name?

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Speaker 1: He wants to make the young players feel they're on

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Speaker 1: even footing. It's a team. I'm not above you. Baker's

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Speaker 1: got talent, So did Jim McMahon. So did Jay Cutler.

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Speaker 1: I don't think Baker has the right personality for the position,

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Speaker 1: and it will ultimately be his undoing. Marcus Thompson for

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Speaker 1: The Athletic. A Bay Area columnist, He's written the books Golden,

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Speaker 1: The Miraculous Rise of Steph Curry, KD, Kevin Durant's relentless

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Speaker 1: pursuit to be the Greatest. His latest book is Dynasties,

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Speaker 1: The Ten Goat Teams that Change the NBA Forever. I

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Speaker 1: haven't read that yet. I'll get to that in a second.

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Speaker 1: We got to start with this. There was a sense,

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Speaker 1: I mean, my sense from outside of the Warriors was Okay,

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Speaker 1: Steph is healthy, Clay will come back, Draymond. Draymond's getting older,

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Speaker 1: KD is gone, Jordan Pool appears to be interesting, fourth

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Speaker 1: or fifth seed, kind of two young draft picks not

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Speaker 1: ready to play. Wiseman's not available. So I thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: they'll get back into the playoffs. And all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: you watch about twenty games and you're like, hell, this

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Speaker 1: is the deepest best team in the league. So but

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Speaker 1: I'm an outsider, You're not. Has their success caught you

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Speaker 1: a little off guard? Oh? Hell yeah, I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: thought I was being radical by predicting a three seed.

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Speaker 1: I was like, you watch, you watched it into the

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Speaker 1: top three. But I thought with Clay, right, you at

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Speaker 1: Clay Wiseman looks better, man, this team could be scary.

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Speaker 1: They could be a three seed. Otherwise, I'm like, Steph

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Speaker 1: gets you. Steph gets you into the mix of four

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Speaker 1: or five. Right, That's what I thought. I'm looking at

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Speaker 1: a team that's not just fifteen to two. They're blowing

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Speaker 1: the doors on teams like it is crazy. It's just

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Speaker 1: not that they're winning, it's how they're doing it. They're

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Speaker 1: winning with defense and rebounding, which is it's nuts. They

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Speaker 1: gave up defensive players, they went got shooting. They added

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Speaker 1: the Eliza and Outo Porter who's like seventy four. It

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Speaker 1: looks like Wilt Chamberlain and moves like him too, But

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Speaker 1: somehow he's rebounded and playing defense. Like, I don't understand

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Speaker 1: his team. I've been saying for the longest time, Yo,

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Speaker 1: chill college. Everybody's like this feels like twenty fifteen, sixteen,

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Speaker 1: it's seventy three and nine. I'm like, yo, relaxed. I

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Speaker 1: was there for that. This is not this. But I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you every game, I'm like, hold on, hold on,

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling like the idiot, what Clay will we get?

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Speaker 1: What are you here? And what do you see? Super hungry?

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Speaker 1: Like you know Clay has been he's eager, he's on

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Speaker 1: the sidelines. He looks really good. I think they're at

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Speaker 1: the point now where it's like conditioning and just caution.

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Speaker 1: He hasn't played for two years. You don't know what's

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Speaker 1: gonna happen when he goes full thronto. Right, he could

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Speaker 1: go full throtto, and you know you can have soredness

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Speaker 1: and tightness and swelling. Who knows, but man, when you

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Speaker 1: watch him, he looks pretty good. He'll be able to

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Speaker 1: do this one thing, right, this one thing he'll probably

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Speaker 1: be able to do until he's eighty. He'll be able

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Speaker 1: to stand in the spot behind the three point line

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Speaker 1: and he'll be able to hit that shot, like, no

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Speaker 1: matter what, he will be able to do that. And

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Speaker 1: if they're this good with nmana be Eliza right, if

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Speaker 1: they're doing this with Gary Payton a second, what do

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Speaker 1: they do when it's Clay now, who's gonna hit fifty

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Speaker 1: six percent of those corner threes? So they don't even

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Speaker 1: need that much of him, Colin, that's the crazy part,

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Speaker 1: Like they don't need that much of them, But I

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Speaker 1: think you'll get about an eighty eighty five percent clay Well,

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Speaker 1: as you noted earlier the six or seven games i've watched.

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Speaker 1: Their defense is the separator. So Draymond Greene, who's old,

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Speaker 1: has been the bouncer at this sort of finesse. Bar

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Speaker 1: is a better offensive player than I think, like last year,

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Speaker 1: like something. I mean, there are limitations on his ability

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Speaker 1: to hit the three, but his game feels a little

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Speaker 1: different to me this year when I've watched, it's a

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Speaker 1: little more dynamic. Explain it to me. He's not playing

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Speaker 1: offense scared. He's There was a time in like twenty twenty, fifteen,

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Speaker 1: sixteen where Draymond was a central part of the offense.

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Speaker 1: He would get you double digits. He had the assists,

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Speaker 1: He's running the pick and row with Steph, and he

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Speaker 1: mattered a lot and if you didn't play him right,

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Speaker 1: he was going to make you pay. And for the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years he seemed to get really timid

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Speaker 1: and offense he couldn't make the three, which kind of

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Speaker 1: impacted the rest of his game. I mean, he still

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Speaker 1: kind of can't make the three, but he makes them

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Speaker 1: in spots like he makes them win his money on

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Speaker 1: the table, right, he makes those the big three, he

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Speaker 1: loves those. But he's also attacking the rim like he's

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Speaker 1: getting to the line. He's trying to punish bigger players.

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Speaker 1: He's just aggressive, and he's not playing to him at

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Speaker 1: on offense. And I think he spent the whole summer

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Speaker 1: looking at that lab he missed against Memphis in the

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Speaker 1: playing game that would have won it. And he's got

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Speaker 1: this wide open lane and he tries his runner and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't even come close. I think he looked at

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Speaker 1: that and saw he just can't be half harder on offense.

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Speaker 1: He's got to go all out. Well. I also think

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Speaker 1: Kevin Durant marginalized him. Durant and Curry are viewed as

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Speaker 1: the world's best small shooter and big shooter. Clay's the

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Speaker 1: best catch and shoot shooter, and I think Draymond's a

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Speaker 1: smart enough player to know at best I was optioned five, yeah,

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Speaker 1: whereas Andrew Wiggins is wildly inconsistent, Clay's not healthy, Kadie's gone.

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Speaker 1: So I think also Draymond feels a confidence that they

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Speaker 1: do need twelve a night from me. Like and by

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Speaker 1: the way, he's always been a very good passer. He's

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Speaker 1: always somebody that gets the ball up the floor, good

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Speaker 1: outlet guy. I do think some of it is when

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Speaker 1: when Katie arrived, Marcus, there was a sense like this man,

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Speaker 1: we just needed to be the tough guy. We don't

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Speaker 1: need your points. And you can't hear that day after day,

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Speaker 1: watch it night after night, and that not seep in.

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Speaker 1: It's like a it's like an old trick right, like

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Speaker 1: that just sat on the shelf forever, like he just

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Speaker 1: didn't he never needed it. And when you got three

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Speaker 1: dudes who can get you thirty? Like, why is Draymond? Right?

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Speaker 1: I think he learned that, like, yo, you, Steph needs you.

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Speaker 1: Last year, Steph needed him. Steph is putting up. He's

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Speaker 1: thirty two years old, he's averaging thirty. He's playing against

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Speaker 1: double and triple teams and boxing ones, and he just

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Speaker 1: needed one other person to kind of relieve the pressure. Wiggins,

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Speaker 1: like you said, was inconsistent. He needed Draymond. Draymond couldn't

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Speaker 1: provide it, and that I think that was a big deal.

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Speaker 1: But now they just have to have it. They can't

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Speaker 1: go without Draymond at least at least not being like

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Speaker 1: there's twenty feet between him and a defender and he's

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Speaker 1: just standing there looking for a pass, like he's got

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Speaker 1: So as Jordan Pool emerges as a good sixteen point

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Speaker 1: a game guy. The initial belief was when Andrew Wiggins

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Speaker 1: came over, he was a trade piece. But I really

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Speaker 1: look at him now and I'm like, God, if you

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Speaker 1: can have four guards or wings in this league, Pool, Wiggins,

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Speaker 1: Clay Staff, I don't see him as a piece or

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Speaker 1: is that still on the table. Nah, He's He's not

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Speaker 1: a trade piece at all. Nah. They The thing is

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Speaker 1: they would have to give up something with him in

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Speaker 1: order to move him, because he is making thirty plus

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Speaker 1: a million over the next two year. That's a lot

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Speaker 1: of money to trade, so it's not the most movable contract.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to give up Wiggins straight up. They

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Speaker 1: definitely not putting a pick with him or another player

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Speaker 1: with him, or John Thinkaming or nothing. So he's he's

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Speaker 1: staying and they love them. I mean, Wiggins is like

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Speaker 1: the trophy for the Warriors away, right, we bring bring

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Speaker 1: us your bring us your overlooks, right, bring us are

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Speaker 1: down trotten, bring us your forgotten stars, and will show

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Speaker 1: them how to play our way and they will resurrect

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Speaker 1: their career. He is the poster shout for that for

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Speaker 1: what they can do when they get a guy next

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Speaker 1: to Steph Curry with Draymond and in their system. So

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Speaker 1: they love him. He's not going anywhere well, you know. Also,

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Speaker 1: he was always thought of as a one or a

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Speaker 1: two in Minnesota right to cap. Now there are nights

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Speaker 1: he can be a four. And I think Andrew's always

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Speaker 1: been a willing defender. But I also think there is

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Speaker 1: Andrew's personality isn't hyper aggressive, and I think when he

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Speaker 1: drives to the arena knowing maybe I'm hot, maybe I'm not,

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Speaker 1: but there's no pressure for him to give them twenty six.

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Speaker 1: I think in Minnesota he was their perimeter player, right

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Speaker 1: like that. He was it like Kat was the inside,

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Speaker 1: he was the outside. And so I think in their culture,

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Speaker 1: there's no he's up. Listen, we could argue this. He's

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Speaker 1: the most talented three in the league. He's definitely the

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Speaker 1: most talented four in the league, and I think he

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Speaker 1: fits that right and what Clay gets there, he will

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Speaker 1: be the four, he won't be the three. I think

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Speaker 1: that is that is it right there. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you think about the one time Minnesota made the playoffs

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Speaker 1: with Wiggins, Jimmy Butler was there. Jimmy Butler took the

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Speaker 1: pressure off of him. Right, he is the ideal third

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Speaker 1: player because he is actually good. That's where the things

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Speaker 1: we forget about Wiggins. While we spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time criticizing him, it's only because of his salary in

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Speaker 1: his draft position. You take all that away, Wiggins is

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Speaker 1: a good basketball play like he's got a nice bag,

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Speaker 1: he can shoot the ball, he plays defense. He's a

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Speaker 1: really good player. So if somehow you can stomach the

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Speaker 1: thirty three million dollars like you're actually getting great returns.

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Speaker 1: He's with no pressure, and we gotta account for this.

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Speaker 1: The third or fourth best defenders Gardener Steps has taken one,

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Speaker 1: maybe two of the best defenders. Clay will take another one,

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Speaker 1: right like Draymond is gonna take one because he has

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Speaker 1: the ball so much, and that's why his aggressive them matters.

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Speaker 1: You put a bad defender in front of Draymond, he's

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Speaker 1: got to be able to eat, which means Wiggins has

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Speaker 1: left with me and you garden him and he could

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Speaker 1: drop thirty on us any day. Right, he's at least

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Speaker 1: a definite threat. And you can see it now. He

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Speaker 1: just feels better about how he's attacking the basket. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. He ducked on car Intony Towns. It's something happened,

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Speaker 1: because he hasn't He's averaged twenty four points of like

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Speaker 1: fifty six percent students. It's knucking on Towns. So if

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Speaker 1: he's going to be this aggressive, you can you can

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Speaker 1: hang it up. He's gonna be great Marcus. It's a

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Speaker 1: really good point. I've talked to NFL GM's about this,

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Speaker 1: and there are so many good receivers and so few

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Speaker 1: good corners that if you have a good three, he's

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Speaker 1: guarded by it their third best corner. He plays like

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Speaker 1: a one. So right, and so in the NBA, Wiggins

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Speaker 1: is now guarded by your four or three. Were your

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Speaker 1: third best player. He was a number one pick. He's

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Speaker 1: a forty four inch vertical guy. Yes, absolutely, So it's

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Speaker 1: a huge mismatch, a tough cover. Yeah, so, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think it's interesting right now in the West, the

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Speaker 1: three best teams are Kerr, Monnie Williams, and Quinn Snyder,

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Speaker 1: and they all have a strong culture. And there is

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Speaker 1: this sense that the West is weaker in the middle

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Speaker 1: at the bottom, and it may be. I don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: buy the Wizards in the playoff. I think the young

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Speaker 1: guys are great in the regular season. I think Milwaukee

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Speaker 1: will be a better playoff team than a regular season team.

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Speaker 1: They're the opposite of Washington, all those big, old bodies

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Speaker 1: and experience. They're built for the playoffs. Yeah, Washington's built

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Speaker 1: for the regular season, maybe not the playoffs. But let's

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Speaker 1: talk specifically about the West. You know, I've said this

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Speaker 1: about the Lakers is that when they gave up Caruso

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Speaker 1: and KCP, they gave up a big chunk of their

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Speaker 1: ability to defend the three. Like, I don't think the

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Speaker 1: Lakers match up with the Warriors at at all. I mean,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if they match up with Phoenix Marcus.

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Speaker 1: I don't see the Lakers as a threat at all

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Speaker 1: to win a second series in the West. I really

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Speaker 1: don't do you it's a huge I mean, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to say that with Lebron and Anthony Davis, right, it

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Speaker 1: feels like in any series those two could just be

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Speaker 1: Hall of Famers and lead you there. But they that's

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Speaker 1: a huge sacrifice they gave up. It's using the NFL analogy, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, since quarterbacks is so important, what's the next

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Speaker 1: most important piece. It's a pass rusher in a league

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Speaker 1: full of guards who go out and get buckets. Especially

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Speaker 1: in the West, they literally just sacrifice their perimeter defense.

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Speaker 1: They gave it up KCP, Carusoe, Like they just gave

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Speaker 1: it up. Did a shrewder a guy who could be

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Speaker 1: pesty and they've decided, Like yo, it's Westbrook and they

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Speaker 1: got Ken Baysmore to kind of solvad some of that,

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Speaker 1: but you lose a lot of offense with that. So

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Speaker 1: it's a weird choice that they made, and it puts

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Speaker 1: them in this position where they're gonna need Lebron to

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Speaker 1: do it all again, and that is the problem. They

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Speaker 1: need Lebron to defend on the perimeter, they need him

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Speaker 1: to score, they need him to run the offense and

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Speaker 1: they're gonna need him to do that for a lot

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Speaker 1: of the regular season if they're gonna not be in

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Speaker 1: a playing game again. So the problem that they thought

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Speaker 1: they were solving by getting to Westbrook to make it

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Speaker 1: sure they're kind of secured in case Lebron goes down

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Speaker 1: and wants to sit out. You got to do with

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Speaker 1: Steph Curry, Devin Booker, Luca who's basically a guard, right,

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Speaker 1: Chris Paul like the top of the way, Mike Conley,

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Speaker 1: Donovan Mitchell, like, you want to win, you gotta guard

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Speaker 1: those dudes, And they basically sacrificed all the dudes I

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Speaker 1: could guard him. Yeah, I want to touch on Kevin Durant.

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Speaker 1: So I am not a rear view mere participant in this.

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Speaker 1: I thought leaving Steph for Kyrie, Irving was an egregiously

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Speaker 1: bad decision. I think step right, well. I think Steph's

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Speaker 1: maybe the greatest superstar teammate in the history of team sports.

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Speaker 1: Brady's probably first or second, and Steph selfless team guys,

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Speaker 1: would take pay cuts, give up shots. It's all about winning.

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Speaker 1: And he's also mature, married, charities kids. I mean, Steph's

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Speaker 1: a real adult. Kyrie's a mega talent, but is a

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Speaker 1: different cat. And I mean, now, I really about three

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Speaker 1: weeks ago, maybe it was a month ago, Kevin Durant

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00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: was asked about Kyrie and he said, I haven't talked

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Speaker 1: to him, And I'm like, oh, bro, not only haven't

400
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: you talked to him, you admitted it to the press.

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00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: So that's a message like you're sending it out there

402
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Speaker 1: like I'm done with him. I don't you know, Katie,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he retires as a Brooklyn Net. What

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Speaker 1: do you think twelve months to twenty four months, you

405
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Speaker 1: could think he's gonna sit there in that situation with

406
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Speaker 1: marginal ownership front office. Where do you think his future lies.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of that depends on if you

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Speaker 1: can win a championship. I really do that. I was

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Speaker 1: there for that scene when the Warriors are there and

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Speaker 1: in his hometown they're champ MVP for Steff right like

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Speaker 1: you were there. The Warriors fans, oh yeah, Warriors fans

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Speaker 1: literally took over the arena. It was. It was one

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Speaker 1: of the wild scenes I've seen in the last five

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Speaker 1: years where Steph touches the ball and the crowd is

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Speaker 1: rising to his feet like begging him to do something great.

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Speaker 1: It was. It was wild, and it definitely crystallized his choice,

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Speaker 1: not not just necessarily to leave the Warriors, but to

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Speaker 1: choose Brooklyn like a secondary franchise and you know, thinking

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Speaker 1: he could lift it. But I do think if he

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Speaker 1: wins a championship, especially without Kyrie, it kind of submits

421
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: him as the guy who people said he wasn't and

422
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 1: at that point, I think that changes the stakes. Right

423
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: to me, he's in the situation. He's in an ideal

424
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: situation for him. He left because he wanted his own thing,

425
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: and now he's got it and there's no dispute about

426
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: whose team it is. So if they win a championship,

427
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: which we learned last year, he could do like he

428
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: doesn't need much around him. It was like Bruce Brown

429
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: and Blake Griffin and he almost beat Milwaukee right, which

430
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: might have been the championship. But if he could win

431
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 1: a title, I think it changes everything. I don't know

432
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: if Brooklyn ever becomes this fortress of love, you know,

433
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: of reverence, you know, because his game deserves it. But

434
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 1: I just don't It's gonna be tough to turn Brooklyn

435
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: into that, like in the Shadow of the Knicks, and

436
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: I think I think Kevin Durant deserves that, so does

437
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: he go looking for it? I think if he gets

438
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: a championship and now he's free, but I don't know

439
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: if he could leave again without a title, I don't

440
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 1: think you would do that. Well. I was talking to

441
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: somebody about two years ago before he left Golden State,

442
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: and they said, trust me, Katie's a wanderer. It's just

443
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: his personality. He's a wanderer. When you look back at

444
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: the time and you covered him and you were pretty

445
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: spot on with everything, can it be said that you

446
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: were still a little shocked he left by the end? No,

447
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: but yeah, when you just kind of stepped back and

448
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: be like, wow, he really left this, Like that's that's jarring.

449
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: But by the end it was clear like he was

450
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: gonna go to everybody who was around here. Everybody knew

451
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: what was up. You know, the team knew what was up.

452
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,719
Speaker 1: But in hindsight, because of who Katie is, because of

453
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: what he appreciates, what he likes, it was jarring. And

454
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: it made a lot of sense though, that he went

455
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: to go play with his friends. To me, that always

456
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: made sense, like him and Kyrie friends. He went to

457
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: play with his friend. That stuff matters to him. So

458
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: it is a little interesting now to see him playing

459
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: without his friend, right, But it was no. I think

460
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant is constantly in search of a challenge, constantly

461
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: of a challenge, and I think it wasn't challenging him

462
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: anymore the Warrior, So it didn't. It didn't surprise me

463
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: that he left in that sense. I want to touch

464
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: on this book you have because I have touted your

465
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: previous two books and I have not read this one.

466
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: It's called Dynasties. It's behind you, the ten goat teams

467
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: that change the NBA forever. So I want I haven't

468
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: read it yet, so you've got to give me two

469
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: teases here, what's okay? So the first one is the Celtics,

470
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: right with Russell nope. Earlier, the Minneapolis Lakers with George Miken. Okay,

471
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: why did they change the league? They started it like

472
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: there is no league without them. NBA was like this fumbling,

473
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,479
Speaker 1: kind of second rate pro league. Nobody cared about pro

474
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: basketball colin they played in cage. They were called cagers

475
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: back then. It was like kind of a joke. People

476
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: cared about college basketball and AU But George Miken was

477
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: such a big draw. He was a He was a

478
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: unicorn in every sense. This was before seven footers played basketball.

479
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: This is before when you saw somebody tall in the

480
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: street and you wonder, hey, do you play basketball? Like

481
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: nobody thought that about tall people back then because the

482
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: tall people didn't play basketball like that. So so this

483
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: seven foot dude who started playing basketball became such a draw,

484
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: and the only draw, by the way, the only draw,

485
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: the only marquee figure because they were all kind of

486
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: pro teams that were popping up and failing. But wherever

487
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 1: Mike and went, that's who has success. So when his

488
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: league merged with the league that would become the NBA,

489
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 1: they won three straight. They they proved the NBA or

490
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: professional basketball in America was viable without them, It ain't happening.

491
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: They're the sugar Hill Gang of the NBA. No hip

492
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: hop without sugar Hill Gang, no NBA with out the

493
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: Miket Lakers. Okay, Now give me one of the ten

494
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: teams I'd be surprised with in modern history that I

495
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: may be caught off guard with the Pistons. Would you

496
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: be surprised by the Pistons made Yeah, the Lamb Beer,

497
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: Isaiah Rodman, Sally Mahorn Pistons. Yeah, the bad boy Pistons

498
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: made it to the chagrin of the Elijah H. Houston

499
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: Rockets and even the Lebron Wade Miami Heat. But I

500
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: definitely valued the Pistons like impact on basketball, how we

501
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: just no matter what, if, no matter where you go,

502
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: if you say bad boys, you know what we're talking about, right,

503
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: they have They They are cultural icons in addition to

504
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: being champions, to repeat champions and people forget like they

505
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: were in the running. They won two titles, but they

506
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: were in the mix for like five years. Yeah, they

507
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: just took some great ales, but that was a great team.

508
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: They changed how we view defense. They changed is how

509
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: we viewed physical players. Like they actually low key invented

510
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: the stretch five Bill Amber might have been the first

511
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: stretch five. It would be a history we think about.

512
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: Oh that is a great point there. There. They evolved

513
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: the game in a way people sleep on. The two guards,

514
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: the two little guards Isaiah and Joe Dumars to shoot

515
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: like a lot of that stuff wasn't commonplace at the time. Uh,

516
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: And they did it, and we never forget them, like

517
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: their their cultural icons. So I went with them. By

518
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: the way, you know what's interesting about that team, how

519
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: many coaches and general managers were on that roster. It's

520
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: one of the smartest, most accomplished basketball executive teams ever.

521
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: And we thought of Miss Tough and wrestlers and Dirt

522
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: Lambier coached Dumars Isaiah. It was full of really six

523
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: several Yeah, you know, it's crazy people. People talk about

524
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: their defense and all that, right, but you know what

525
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: really made them believe would they were an incredible offensive

526
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: team a matter of fact. Bennie Johnson microwaves, Yes, they

527
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: were incredible offensively. Actually they actually started as this offensive

528
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: team and they developed this defensive identity. But they were incredible.

529
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: They had two guards who could shoot the lights out,

530
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: they had a five who could shoot. They had dudes

531
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: coming off the bench to get you twenty and remember

532
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: people forget they had Adrian Dantley, who was one of

533
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: the great scorers of all time. Like, this was an

534
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: elite offensive team that learned how to play defense and

535
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: built this identity and that's how they became champions. So

536
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: in your book, do you rank them in terms of

537
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: basketball greatness or just cultural and kind of macro level greatness.

538
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: I went against my better judgment to rank them because

539
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: I feel like this conversation is a little bit more

540
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: important than rankings. I thought about the fourteen year olds

541
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: who are learning, who are following in love with the NBA,

542
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: and like educating them about it because to me, I

543
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: feel like what one thing we don't do in basketball

544
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: enough is appreciate the previous eras. So it's easy to

545
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: look at the Russell Celtics and say, man, Bob Couzy

546
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: was dribulated with his palms right like, like, we can

547
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: look at that and say it's not a big deal.

548
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: But I feel like I wanted to create a more

549
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: of an appreciation for them. I wanted to create something

550
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: that was greater than just ranking. So my bit was

551
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: to kind of follow the growth of the league through

552
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: the eyes of the dynasty, so you could see how

553
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: the league started, how it evolved, how it advanced, and

554
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: how it infiltrated itself into culture and society, but through

555
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: the lands of the dynasties. So you start with Mike

556
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: and you probably go to the Celtics. And there's this

557
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: sense that there was a gap in the seventies with

558
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: the super teams. It was the Sonics, it was the Sexers,

559
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: it was the Blazers, the mix. So did you go

560
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: from like the sixties to the eighties. Was there a

561
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: gap with no dynasty? There was a gap. There was

562
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: a gap, but I did talk about the gap. But

563
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: there was like this power vacuum in a sense where

564
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: there was a lot of good teams and they all

565
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: kind of won by the way. The Blazers, the Sonics,

566
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: the Knicks, they all had their time. They just didn't

567
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: dominate the era. And then the next domination comes with

568
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: like the Showtime Lakers, right as when Magic and Kareem

569
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: team up. But that era, that's one of the things,

570
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: that's why I wanted to write this. But we don't

571
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: know about the seventies era. We all know about any

572
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: of these teams we talk about the Willis Read game.

573
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: We don't know that that was. Clyde Fresche was incredible

574
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: that Game seven in the nineteen seventy finals. So it's

575
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: stuff like that where it's like, I just want people

576
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: to know about it more than debate about it. Well,

577
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: I grew up loving basketball in the seventies and I

578
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: liked the Washington Bullets and the Sonics, where the Bullets

579
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: had Kevin Greevy, Phil Shaner West Unselled, Elvin Hayes, Kevin

580
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: Lockery I think was their coach, and they faced the

581
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: Sonics in back to back final. Sonics had Gus Williams,

582
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: who I think, next to Bernard King's the most under

583
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: player in league history, Dennis Johnson, John Johnson, Lonnie Shelton,

584
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: Jack Sigma, those teams both. You know, if Seattle wins two,

585
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: we think of them differently. If Washington I think only

586
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: one one as well. I think they split. And so

587
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: the seventies did not lack great basketball players. Yeah, what

588
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: happened is they just all took turns doing. The Sixers

589
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: were really good in the seventies, Man Sixers, Tony, Steve Mix,

590
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: George mcguns. They were loaded loaded. So the Sixers kind

591
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: of hurt, like like they hurt my heart, right, Like

592
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: I feel like that was a great team that gets

593
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: zero love, like none. You never even hear about them,

594
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 1: and they were so good. Yeah, we know about Cowen

595
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: and the Celtics, we know about Bill Walton and the Blazers,

596
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: we know about the Knicks. We even know about downs Hown,

597
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: Freddy Brown and Link is right, we know nothing about

598
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: that six team, which was incredible, Like it really it

599
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: really kind of hurts a little bit. And then you

600
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: go like, you know, think about this. They end up

601
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 1: having Doctor Jay Andrew Tony Moses Malone and they were

602
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: in all of those wars with the Lakers itself. Yeah,

603
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: but we don't even but like with one goal differently,

604
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: we're talking about them absolutely not maybe one of those

605
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: other teams, but they just kind of get X out

606
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: of history because Magic and Bird were the most but

607
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: they were right there. Yeah, it's the Sixers, man. The

608
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: Sixers are like the great basketball franchise that nobody ever

609
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: talks about, Like it's it's unbelievable and I feel like

610
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: we should know about this, but we don't. Yeah. Billy

611
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: Cunningham was the coach, the firing coach so no, I ha, Listen,

612
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: I grew up with those in that era and those

613
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: Sixers teams. You know, I don't even know what they

614
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: missed because their forwards could score. You know, Caldwell Jones

615
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 1: was more of a defender. They really did have it all.

616
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: It's really crazy. They should have been a two or

617
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: three time champ. They really, I would The construction of

618
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 1: that team was much better than the Heatles. It really

619
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: was bigger, the guard play, more depth. They just Lebron

620
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: was so special. He overcame and he completely dominated the

621
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: Eastern Conference, so the path to the finals was easy.

622
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: They lost what one, two, three, four, five finals. It's like,

623
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: I mean, it's cold blooded when you think about it.

624
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: They're the greatest runner up team like that. Nobody ever

625
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 1: talks about. It's unbelievable how good they were. And obviously

626
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: a lot of us know that. You know, the whole

627
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,479
Speaker 1: beat La chance started because the seventy six Ers beat

628
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: the Celtics and like a war of a seven game

629
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: series and Boston fans were like, all right, now, you

630
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 1: gotta take care of the Lakers. But those teams, I mean,

631
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: they had Darryl Dawkins like as the sit like some

632
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: of these teams were so loaded and so good and

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Speaker 1: so right there. They just happened to run against Magic

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Speaker 1: and Larry Bird, which is cold bloody. Okay, I can't

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00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: wait to read this Dynasties, the ten Goat Teams that

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00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: change the NBA forever. Get your publisher to send me

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Speaker 1: a copy. Marcus Thompson is always, buddy. I love talking

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00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: to you. I'm saying you one and it will have

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00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 1: penmanship inside of it. How about that? You're the best,

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Speaker 1: Love your stuff. Thanks, thank you so much, appreciate you

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Speaker 1: all right. I hope you enjoyed Marcus Thompson. Check us out,

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00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: sign up and subscribe please to the Volume Sports YouTube channel.

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00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: Just push subscribe. You get all of our interviews, all

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00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: my stuff. I think you'd like it, and I think

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Speaker 1: you'll love Marcus Thompson, The Volume