1
00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,640
Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Search podcast.

2
00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,360
Speaker 1: My guest today is that one and only Simon Kirk,

3
00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:21,599
Speaker 1: drummer of Bad Company and Free. Simon, how do you

4
00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,079
Speaker 1: feel about Bad Company not being in the Rock and

5
00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:25,040
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame?

6
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,680
Speaker 2: You don't hang around, Bob, do you know. I think

7
00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,640
Speaker 2: it's such travesty. Quite honestly, I mean not just that,

8
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:39,919
Speaker 2: but Free Free certainly should be because you know, I mean,

9
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,040
Speaker 2: Free has been around since nineteen sixty eight and we've

10
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,320
Speaker 2: the two bands have been responsible for influencing a lot

11
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,920
Speaker 2: of a lot of bands who are already in the Hall.

12
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,680
Speaker 2: So it's you know, I feel pretty bad about it,

13
00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,960
Speaker 2: but I'm not going to go on too much about it.

14
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,680
Speaker 2: It's just I think we should be in, certainly, Free,

15
00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,200
Speaker 2: and I think Paul Paul Rodgers should be in on

16
00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,600
Speaker 2: his own merits. I mean, as one of the great

17
00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,880
Speaker 2: rock vocalists of all time. You know, if Eric Captain

18
00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,560
Speaker 2: and Rodge Stewart and Jeff Jeff Beck and be inducted

19
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:24,119
Speaker 2: as solo artists, and certainly Paul Rodgers should be in there.

20
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,720
Speaker 2: So that's my two cents.

21
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,880
Speaker 1: I completely agree with you, certainly in both bands. I think,

22
00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 1: you know, the focus has become the Music Hall of

23
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,520
Speaker 1: Fame because you can't have a rock I've been back

24
00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,240
Speaker 1: and forth with the members. I'm not a voting member

25
00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,560
Speaker 1: or anything, but it's a travesty, as you put it.

26
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,000
Speaker 1: So what's the status of Bad Company today? Are they

27
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:48,639
Speaker 1: going to ever be any more live dates?

28
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,440
Speaker 2: I honestly I doubt it, and I'll tell you why.

29
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,200
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people now already know that

30
00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 2: Paul Rodgers has had health problems. He went public with

31
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,440
Speaker 2: it a couple of weeks ago on CBS. They flew

32
00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,400
Speaker 2: him out to New York and he came out with

33
00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,080
Speaker 2: the fact that he has had some severe health problems

34
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,840
Speaker 2: in the last couple of years, a couple of strokes,

35
00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,919
Speaker 2: quite a few mini strokes and heart troubles. And I

36
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,920
Speaker 2: honestly think that our Bad Company's days are pretty much over.

37
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,720
Speaker 1: Okay, Just on this same point, there have been conversations

38
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,120
Speaker 1: or talking about Mick Ralf's health. How is his health?

39
00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,200
Speaker 2: Oh, Mick, we'll mix uffered a stroke about six or

40
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,679
Speaker 2: seven years ago and it's paralyzed his left side, as

41
00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,600
Speaker 2: most strokes do, so he's really out of commission. He's

42
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:52,280
Speaker 2: in a home in a nursing home in England. Several

43
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,320
Speaker 2: people have seen him recently. I'm going to go over

44
00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,960
Speaker 2: next year, so he's really health is not good and

45
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,240
Speaker 2: it's certainly his playing days are over. So you know,

46
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,680
Speaker 2: we had a good run and I think we're going

47
00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,880
Speaker 2: to lay the old bad company to rest pretty soon.

48
00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,839
Speaker 1: Okay, this begs a question, how's your health? Well?

49
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:23,120
Speaker 2: Touch would? I'm great? I am cleaning sober quite a

50
00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,520
Speaker 2: few years now at last, and I don't smoke, I

51
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,760
Speaker 2: don't drink, I eat well, I do yoga and I

52
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,480
Speaker 2: have smoothies and my wife make sure that I'm living

53
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,160
Speaker 2: another twenty four hours. So thanks for asking. I'm in

54
00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:41,040
Speaker 2: pretty good shape.

55
00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,840
Speaker 1: So tell me about getting sober well.

56
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,280
Speaker 2: I think it's common knowledge that you know, I had

57
00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:53,880
Speaker 2: troubles with substance abuse for many years, and back in

58
00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,880
Speaker 2: the day, you know, in the seventies and eighties, it

59
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 2: was something that was kept. Yeah, you didn't really broadcast

60
00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:05,160
Speaker 2: in whereas nowadays you know it's part of one cv

61
00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 2: as it were, that you know you're in the program

62
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,040
Speaker 2: or you're clean and sober. It's something that is something

63
00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 2: that is to be congratulated rather than hidden under a rock.

64
00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:23,280
Speaker 2: So I've been I hadn't done blow for twenty seven years.

65
00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 2: I gave up drinking about eight years ago. Finally I

66
00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,400
Speaker 2: had a little sip down again, La la la. But really,

67
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,920
Speaker 2: to be totally clean and sober, you've got to give

68
00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,200
Speaker 2: everything up. And it's the best thing I did. I mean,

69
00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,719
Speaker 2: I you know, back in those days, the seventies and

70
00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,680
Speaker 2: eighties were really crazy days, but I was a lot younger.

71
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,479
Speaker 2: I could get away with it and it didn't never

72
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:55,560
Speaker 2: really impeded my drumming. You could just sort of get

73
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,480
Speaker 2: away with that shit, you know. But now, Nah, I

74
00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,520
Speaker 2: don't miss at all, Bob. Quite honestly, I wish I'd

75
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,640
Speaker 2: done it sooner, but you know, better late than never.

76
00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,799
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the drugs. How did you finally

77
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,280
Speaker 1: decide to stop? Oh?

78
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 2: I nearly died, to put it in a nutshell, I mean,

79
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 2: I was on a tour bus and we pulled into Nashville,

80
00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 2: and I've been taking ativan with swigging it with Jack

81
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,960
Speaker 2: Daniels and doing blow and all sorts of stuff. And

82
00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,960
Speaker 2: I was passed out in the bunk, one of the bunks,

83
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,640
Speaker 2: and they left me there. I mean, everyone was out

84
00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,560
Speaker 2: of it. We sort of staggering into They staggered into

85
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,440
Speaker 2: the hotel to get their rooms, and I was left

86
00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,120
Speaker 2: with this girlfriend of mine, who God bless her. I mean,

87
00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,280
Speaker 2: she saved my life. And she dragged me out of

88
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:54,480
Speaker 2: the bunk and walked me around, slapping me, and I

89
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,680
Speaker 2: nearly died that night, and that's when I thought, Okay,

90
00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,400
Speaker 2: now you know this has got to stop. So it

91
00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:07,799
Speaker 2: really took a near death experience to give the hard

92
00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 2: stuff up. And I say this only as a personal thing,

93
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 2: but coke exacerbates drinking and drug taking because if you

94
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 2: do a line, you want to drink five times as

95
00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,480
Speaker 2: much as you normally would. If you want to sleep,

96
00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 2: you've got to take valume or you've got to take

97
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,920
Speaker 2: something to come down. In the morning, you're sort of groggy,

98
00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 2: so you do another line and the whole thing starts again.

99
00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,320
Speaker 2: But I was at that stage. This is in nineteen

100
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:43,520
Speaker 2: ninety six. I was forty seven, and I was a lunatic,

101
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,680
Speaker 2: a functioning lunatic, because I went to the gym every

102
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,120
Speaker 2: day and I jogged, you know, and then I'd come

103
00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,600
Speaker 2: back and do a line. It's stupid, really.

104
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,240
Speaker 1: So you have this near death experience, did you stop

105
00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,080
Speaker 1: cold Turkey. Did you go to rehab?

106
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,400
Speaker 2: Nose. I went to rehab. I couldn't have done it

107
00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:07,560
Speaker 2: without rehab. I've been to several and now I'm on

108
00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,160
Speaker 2: the board of you know, I help kids with addiction.

109
00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,840
Speaker 2: I'm on the board of a foundation called Road Recovery,

110
00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:21,440
Speaker 2: which helps teenagers and adolescents with drug addiction. And I'm

111
00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,400
Speaker 2: on the board of Right Turn, which is based in Boston,

112
00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 2: and we help musicians people in the theatrical business with addiction.

113
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,920
Speaker 2: So I'm just passing it on, you know, I'm helping it.

114
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,840
Speaker 2: And I see kids, Bob. I mean, there's kids in

115
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 2: seventeen or eighteen, They've got three years sober. You know,

116
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:47,640
Speaker 2: they are sidestepping all that ridiculous black hole that waits

117
00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,920
Speaker 2: for people who get hooked, and they're getting sober in

118
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,880
Speaker 2: their late teens. And I thank people. I have to

119
00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 2: thank people like Eric Clapton. Elton Alice Cooper was one

120
00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,560
Speaker 2: of the first people in my business that got sober.

121
00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:08,000
Speaker 2: You know, he's been sober like forty five years. Because

122
00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,280
Speaker 2: you know, we were all lunatics. Everyone dragged it la

123
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,000
Speaker 2: la la la. And then suddenly someone puts a hand

124
00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,840
Speaker 2: up and says, you know, I'm Vince, Vince Fernier with

125
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,960
Speaker 2: Alice's real name, and I'm an addict. Eric puts his

126
00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,200
Speaker 2: hand ups. I'm an addict, and without people like that

127
00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:33,040
Speaker 2: to help people like myself, I probably would have been dead,

128
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,120
Speaker 2: quite honestly. So I'm just passing it on to the youngsters.

129
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,320
Speaker 2: Saying don't go down the road is a waste of time,

130
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:41,559
Speaker 2: complete waste of time.

131
00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,719
Speaker 1: Well, let's go back to the beginning in the sixties

132
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,440
Speaker 1: and then seventies, when did mean, yeah, everybody was smoking

133
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:54,560
Speaker 1: marijuana or whatever, But when did your drug increase intake increase?

134
00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,800
Speaker 2: Oh, when I started doing coke, no question, because yeah,

135
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,680
Speaker 2: the sixties, you know, we didn't have grass in England.

136
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,880
Speaker 2: We had hash. It would come over from Amsterdam and Germany,

137
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,000
Speaker 2: so grass was very very rare. But we did hash.

138
00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,079
Speaker 2: So we all smoked, we dragged beer. You know, we

139
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:19,880
Speaker 2: were teenagers. That's what teenagers did. But when I met

140
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,959
Speaker 2: some people from Brazil in nineteen seventy two, there was

141
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,840
Speaker 2: a little enclave of Brazilians living in London, and I

142
00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,080
Speaker 2: got very friendly with one of the ladies. She became

143
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,160
Speaker 2: nearly became my wife, and they turned me on to

144
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,480
Speaker 2: blow and it was fuck me. It was pure. It

145
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,720
Speaker 2: was amazing. I mean it really was amazing. But once again,

146
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,800
Speaker 2: once I did a line instead of you know, a

147
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:51,120
Speaker 2: bottle of beer would last one minute, whereas before it

148
00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,679
Speaker 2: would last maybe a couple of hours. So suddenly I'm woh, wow,

149
00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,719
Speaker 2: where is the stuff? Well drumming, Yeah, come on, let's go.

150
00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,680
Speaker 2: Boom boom boom. Everything was ramped up. It was like

151
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:08,360
Speaker 2: a Keystone Cops movie. Everything's sped up, and pretty soon

152
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,960
Speaker 2: I was I was doing a lot of it. And

153
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 2: then I went to Brazil and I got really really

154
00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,400
Speaker 2: screwed up, but I still managed to function. You know,

155
00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,200
Speaker 2: there was still there was still a part of me

156
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,000
Speaker 2: that was like, this is ridiculous. You know, you've got

157
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,920
Speaker 2: to stop this, or at least put it on a

158
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,520
Speaker 2: back burner. You got a career ahead of you, and

159
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,600
Speaker 2: no one wants to hang out with druggies except other druggies.

160
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:41,240
Speaker 2: And I started getting isolated from the general the sober

161
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,120
Speaker 2: population I would have. I would avoid people who were sober.

162
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,560
Speaker 2: I got to meet Derek Clapton at the Alba Hall

163
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,199
Speaker 2: backstage right, and I was so nervous because I had

164
00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,760
Speaker 2: a glass of wine in my head and I opted

165
00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,480
Speaker 2: out not to meet one of the great musicians of

166
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,160
Speaker 2: all time, you know, because I is embarrassed because I

167
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:08,360
Speaker 2: was drunk, you know, just stupid things like huh so, yeah,

168
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,800
Speaker 2: that's what That was the turning point doing the blow,

169
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,240
Speaker 2: and I did blow for twenty years. You know.

170
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,880
Speaker 1: The average person has no idea of what it's like

171
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,720
Speaker 1: being on the road. You have the same group of

172
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,560
Speaker 1: people you've known for years in the band, you're kind

173
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,680
Speaker 1: of tired of them. You go on on the stage

174
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,840
Speaker 1: to vast applause and it's a high that people who

175
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,520
Speaker 1: haven't done it have no idea. Then you go back

176
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,840
Speaker 1: with the same people in the bus. You can't fall asleep,

177
00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,280
Speaker 1: and then the sun comes up. To what degree did

178
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:44,880
Speaker 1: drugs help you cope with that?

179
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,800
Speaker 2: Well? What it was, Bob, That's a very good question.

180
00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,360
Speaker 2: It was pouring gasoline on a flame because you come

181
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,600
Speaker 2: off and most of Bad Company shows were great. I

182
00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:03,000
Speaker 2: mean we came off to being bay in this applause encores.

183
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,640
Speaker 2: I mean the group is the whole adulation la la lah,

184
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,199
Speaker 2: and we didn't want it to stop. We're in the

185
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,600
Speaker 2: dressing room like brah whoh man. That was great enough.

186
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,560
Speaker 2: Get the lines out and suddenly you know, we're like,

187
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:23,160
Speaker 2: we've gone to another level of euphoria. You get back,

188
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,360
Speaker 2: get on the bush. It's a four hour bus, like,

189
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,920
Speaker 2: oh god, all right, come on, get the guitars out.

190
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:35,040
Speaker 2: Another line, la lah lah. You know, just stupid, stupid

191
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:41,640
Speaker 2: stuff really but a bit nothing really, nothing compared with that.

192
00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,720
Speaker 2: A good show. And it should have stopped right there.

193
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,680
Speaker 2: You know, that should have been enough. That should have

194
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:52,280
Speaker 2: been the reward in itself, going down so well in

195
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,240
Speaker 2: ten thousand people applauding you. But as we know that

196
00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:58,280
Speaker 2: it wasn't enough.

197
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,800
Speaker 1: Okay, So how did you decide give up drinking?

198
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,440
Speaker 2: Well, when I stopped doing blow, everything else tape it off,

199
00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:12,360
Speaker 2: and I still I always loved drinking wine. I love wine,

200
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,480
Speaker 2: but I have an addicted personality. And even though I

201
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,560
Speaker 2: managed to stop blowing, it was the best thing I

202
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:23,880
Speaker 2: ever did. I still like drinking wine. And one glass

203
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,920
Speaker 2: was never enough. Two was never enough. And when I

204
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,840
Speaker 2: when I remarried, I had been sober for a couple

205
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,480
Speaker 2: of years, and I remarried and I thought, well, he's

206
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,320
Speaker 2: a lovely lady, and maybe I can And I told

207
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,360
Speaker 2: her up front, you know, look, I've been in several

208
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:46,120
Speaker 2: rehabs La la Lah. So well, I experimented and thought, well,

209
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,400
Speaker 2: you know what, and you know what, for a couple

210
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,760
Speaker 2: of couple of months it was okay. And then I

211
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:57,160
Speaker 2: went to two glasses and then three and it just

212
00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,440
Speaker 2: started going as we say in England, it start going

213
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:07,960
Speaker 2: pair shaped and it was really affecting my life and

214
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,120
Speaker 2: my relationship. And I had a new wife and I

215
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:17,480
Speaker 2: didn't really want that to impinge and effect this lovely

216
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:22,600
Speaker 2: lady and my relationship with this lovely lady Maria. So

217
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,560
Speaker 2: I said, that's it. And I've been going to meetings

218
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,680
Speaker 2: for many, many years. They ow meetings. I don't mind

219
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:33,000
Speaker 2: telling people about my drug use and drinking if it

220
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,880
Speaker 2: helps other people, you know, because the landscape has changed.

221
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,560
Speaker 2: As I said, you know, fifty years ago to say

222
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,400
Speaker 2: you were an addict or an alcoholic was like whoa,

223
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,640
Speaker 2: But you know nowadays, yeah, it's no big deal. We're

224
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:49,600
Speaker 2: just helping each other.

225
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:55,080
Speaker 1: To what degree did drug use and other substance abuse

226
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,680
Speaker 1: affect the ending of your previous marriage?

227
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:05,960
Speaker 2: Oh? I mean it was a sledgehammer, because well it was.

228
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,000
Speaker 2: It was cyclical. I would get out of it, and

229
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,920
Speaker 2: I was not the faithful husband. It was a terrible husband.

230
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,320
Speaker 2: Then I get found out because drunks are not very

231
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,120
Speaker 2: good at hiding their you know, their trail, so I

232
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,560
Speaker 2: get found out. So then I'd leave the house and

233
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 2: go on some binge and it would all start again.

234
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:31,640
Speaker 2: So it ruined my marriage, no question. And it's something

235
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,120
Speaker 2: that I regret to this day. And I've been trying

236
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,360
Speaker 2: to make amends to my daughters. I have three girls, Domino,

237
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,360
Speaker 2: Jamiah and Lola, and you know, I've apologized to them

238
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:49,200
Speaker 2: and it's just an ongoing thing. But no question of it,

239
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:55,280
Speaker 2: it dealt a body blow to my marriage throughout throughout

240
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,240
Speaker 2: the marriage thirty three years.

241
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 1: Okay, I have three daughters. All of them were successful

242
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,160
Speaker 1: the arts of the role. Right, how did that happen?

243
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,840
Speaker 2: I don't know of I'm very proud of them, I

244
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 2: have to say. I mean, we've got Jemima who's film actress.

245
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,840
Speaker 2: She was in Girls and she's been in quite a

246
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 2: few movies. Lola who's done several quite a few movies,

247
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:27,120
Speaker 2: but she's now a country and Western artist and very successful.

248
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 2: And Domino, who is she had a career, a singing career,

249
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 2: but she became a mum very at a young age

250
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,440
Speaker 2: and that kind of sidelined her career. But she's a duela.

251
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 2: She delivers babies, and I'm so proud of her because,

252
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,280
Speaker 2: you know, to bring children into the world man that is.

253
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,000
Speaker 2: I think she's delivered about two hundred kids. So yeah,

254
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,760
Speaker 2: I'm just knocked out with all of them. I love

255
00:16:58,800 --> 00:16:59,440
Speaker 2: them to bits.

256
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 1: How did you come up with the names with them?

257
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,960
Speaker 1: They're sort of unique names or names that hadn't been

258
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:07,960
Speaker 1: in use for a while.

259
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:15,040
Speaker 2: Ah. It was obviously a two way street with me

260
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:21,360
Speaker 2: and my previous wife, Lorraine Domino. There was a movie

261
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:27,879
Speaker 2: called Shark's Machine with Burt Reynolds back in nineteen eighty

262
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,360
Speaker 2: and Domino was born in eighty two, and I think

263
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,200
Speaker 2: my ex had a little crush on Burt Reynolds and

264
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:39,920
Speaker 2: the star of that film her name was Domino, so

265
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,080
Speaker 2: she said, oh, that would be a lovely name. I

266
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,879
Speaker 2: wanted to call her Emily. I don't know why. It

267
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:52,360
Speaker 2: was a very English name, but no, Domino came out

268
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,280
Speaker 2: of a hat, and that's what we settled with. Jemima.

269
00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 2: There was an English series of books called mi'ma Puddle Duck,

270
00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,920
Speaker 2: and there was something that me and Lorain agreed on.

271
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,680
Speaker 2: No Jemimah. But it's a lovely name. And of course

272
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 2: we didn't know about the big fat black lady over here,

273
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:19,040
Speaker 2: Aunt Jemima so and when we moved over here in

274
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,360
Speaker 2: ninety seven, permanently everyone was like, oh, you don't look

275
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,360
Speaker 2: anything like Aunt Jemilah is Who the fuck's aren't Jamala

276
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,240
Speaker 2: and Lola? I don't know. I think maybe the Kinks

277
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 2: song Lo Lo Lo Lo Lola. So, yeah, they're cool names.

278
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 1: Okay, how'd you meet your new wife?

279
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:47,399
Speaker 2: Okay, good story. I'm a good friend of Ronnie Wood

280
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 2: and I was over in England and he said, look,

281
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,439
Speaker 2: I'm coming to New York. We're doing a tribute to

282
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,320
Speaker 2: Jimmy Reid the Cutting Room, which is a great club

283
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,199
Speaker 2: in New York City, and I lived in New York.

284
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,240
Speaker 2: I was just visiting. The said you want to play drums?

285
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,119
Speaker 2: I said, well, I'd love to run it. You know,

286
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 2: she's our cooper on Hammond. We got a great bass

287
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,960
Speaker 2: player and a couple of guests. Mick Taylor's on guitar. Yeah,

288
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,000
Speaker 2: I'm in. So I went down to the Cutting Room

289
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,640
Speaker 2: for a sound check and as I walked in, there

290
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,639
Speaker 2: was a lady, a greeter, you know, taking the names

291
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:29,160
Speaker 2: on the door, and this was Maria, Maria Figuretta, and

292
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 2: my jaw just dropped because she was so beautiful, and I,

293
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I didn't say anything. I was

294
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,480
Speaker 2: so tongue tied, and I just went down into the

295
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 2: dressing room, got ready, and I couldn't get her out

296
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,200
Speaker 2: of my brain. And then blur and behold she walks

297
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:52,399
Speaker 2: in the dressing room was the manager's office. She needed

298
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,800
Speaker 2: to get something from the office, and my first words

299
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,879
Speaker 2: to her were hallo, hello, Hello. That was the first

300
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 2: words to my future wife. And she got all flustered

301
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 2: and said, oh, I've just got to get some and

302
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 2: kind of fled the office because she said later, I've

303
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 2: kind of embarrassed him. We were kind of mutually smitten,

304
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 2: and at the end of the show, you know, I

305
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 2: got a number and I was still married. I mean

306
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 2: I was, but it was on the rocks. So we

307
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 2: started this love affair. Really that lasted for a couple

308
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,199
Speaker 2: of years until we finally got married and the divorce

309
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 2: came through and we married six years ago.

310
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 1: Okay, now, with Nick indisposed, Paul having his health problems,

311
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 1: what does that leave you?

312
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,879
Speaker 2: Aha, Well, I'm like a dog without a tail at

313
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 2: the moment. I'm but what I am doing is I'm

314
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 2: co writing a rock opera, a rock musical about addiction

315
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 2: called rock Bottom, and we're putting it together and yeah, thanks,

316
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 2: So everyone I say is that's a great name, and

317
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 2: it's about addiction, and it's I'm writing it with an

318
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 2: interventionist drug counselor and he's a drummer with the Delf

319
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 2: Fegos up in Boston. His name's Woody Geeseman and a

320
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 2: comedian called Tony Viveros. And we've done the script. We've

321
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:42,239
Speaker 2: written about fifteen songs and we're honing it as we

322
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 2: speak with We have bi weekly writing sessions. The songs

323
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 2: are pretty much recorded and it's really shaping up nicely.

324
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 2: It's taking up a lot of my time. But that

325
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:58,360
Speaker 2: being said, you know, I do miss playing. I love playing,

326
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 2: and you know, plays some shows with g Smith, great

327
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 2: guitar player who lives in Long Island, and we do

328
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 2: the occasional show together. I would never start a group again.

329
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 2: I'm too old. I don't want to go through all

330
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 2: that rigmarole. But I would happily do shows with other

331
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 2: people if they want me around. You know, I'm seventy four.

332
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 2: I don't know how much time I've got left actual playing.

333
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 2: But you look people like Ringo who still plays well.

334
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 2: I mean, he's another example. I should have mentioned him

335
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,719
Speaker 2: back in the sobriety section. Ringo is a huge example

336
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 2: of getting me sober and he still plays well. So

337
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 2: he still plays great. Actually, So I'm around and I'm

338
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 2: getting into film scoring. I really love I've scored a

339
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 2: couple of independent movies. I really love doing that. I've

340
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,959
Speaker 2: got a studio here, I've got all the you know,

341
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 2: all the toys, and I'm a big, big fan of

342
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,719
Speaker 2: movie scoring, So that's what I want to do. And songwriting.

343
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 2: I love writing song.

344
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about all this drug use and that

345
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,959
Speaker 1: eats up a lot of cash. So where does that

346
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: leave you financially?

347
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 2: Well, not just that, but also the rehabs and I

348
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 2: you know, I've written a lot of songs about about

349
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 2: getting sober and the most expensive songs out of the road.

350
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 2: Where does that leave me? Well, rehabs about fifty grand

351
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 2: a pop. Now, you know, so I've been to seven.

352
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 2: So do the math. Where does it leave me financially?

353
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 2: I'm okay, uncomfortable. I'm not rich by any stretch. I'm

354
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 2: square over the irs, that's the main thing. I mean,

355
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: a lot of my contemporaries and Beata Grant, my old manager,

356
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 2: I mean he and I found out that. I mean,

357
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 2: he was well in hock to the the Vatman the

358
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 2: VAT in England, which is pretty pretty much allied with

359
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 2: the irs. He was in hock for millions. He had

360
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 2: to sell his houselah la lah. So I always remember,

361
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 2: keep square with the irs, because they are piranas. They

362
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 2: will come after you. So I'm okay. I mean it's

363
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 2: you know, money is like sleep and sex. You can

364
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 2: always do with a little bit more. But I'm quite

365
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: happy with what I got.

366
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: Okay, in the seventies, you're recognizably famous now years later,

367
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: anybody ever recognize you when you say who you are?

368
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 1: Do they realize who you are? What's it like being

369
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: a rock star at this point in time.

370
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not a rock star anymore. I'm well known

371
00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 2: in the industry. I've had a good run. And oddly enough,

372
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 2: here's the weird thing. I got recognized in two places.

373
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 2: You would not believe. I was walking in the jungle

374
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 2: in Brazil, right on a hike while I was staying

375
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 2: with one of my daughters at a camp, some adventure camp,

376
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 2: and we're doing a hike through the jungle and there's

377
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 2: another four or five people coming the other way towards us,

378
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: and as we drew abreast, the guy says, you'll signing, Kirk.

379
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: You've got to be kidding. I swear to God. He said,

380
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: I love you playing man, Thanks God bless and off

381
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 2: he went the other direction. And then I was in

382
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: Cuba with my wife, whose father is Cuban, and with him,

383
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: and we were in this little village and we were

384
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 2: having a couple of coffee somewhere. It's about one in

385
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: the afternoon. They sitting around a table, and these guys

386
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 2: were walking carrying a guitar case and a little drum

387
00:25:54,280 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: case and they started. I said wow, and they said,

388
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 2: look with rehearsing, you want to come and play with us.

389
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 2: I couldn't say no. So it does happen very occasionally,

390
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: and it's nice. But you know, being in the drama, Bob,

391
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 2: you're always hidden by behind the symbols and the rat Tom.

392
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: No one really knows. Yeah, it's not like I'm Paul

393
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 2: Rodgers or Mick Row. It's okay.

394
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: So at this point, do you only play drums when

395
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: someone calls you, like gee, whatever? Or do you ever

396
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: play for your own fun? Oh?

397
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I I still have a kit next

398
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 2: door in my my, my basement. I'm speaking to you

399
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: from a little room next to the basement where I

400
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 2: have all my keyboards and guitar. But I'll put on

401
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: some Motis reading or Wilson Pickett or Bonnie Rait. I

402
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: love Bonnie raight, and I'll play along to her, or

403
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 2: then just to I just love playing drums. It's just

404
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 2: when you're playing drum by yourself, it doesn't really achieve

405
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: that much. It's not like playing piano where you can

406
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: really get lost. But I was never one for practicing.

407
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: I'm a field drummer. I'm not a progressive rock drummer

408
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,719
Speaker 2: who needs to do paradidls and double flams and all

409
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: that stuff. I lead that to people like Simon Phillips

410
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 2: or Dave Weckel or Vinicolo Uto who plays with Sting.

411
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 2: I mean, those guys are like whoa. But you know,

412
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: I'm a musician just happens to play a few instruments.

413
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: So let's go back to the beginning. So where did

414
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: you grow up.

415
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 2: I grew up. I was born in London, and then

416
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 2: when I was about nine, we moved to the border

417
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 2: of Wales on the English side, about one hundred and

418
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 2: fifty miles northwest of London, and I was there for

419
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 2: ten years.

420
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: What was that like? Was it like being in the

421
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: boonies or was it sophistically? No, it was not.

422
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 2: We had no electricity or running water for seven years.

423
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: You grew up in London. Why did your parents move

424
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: out there?

425
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 2: Well, I think my dad owed some money, I'll be honest.

426
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: We suddenly almost overnight. I was about seven or eight

427
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven. I was eight years old. We moved

428
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty seven and it was a big adventure

429
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,239
Speaker 2: for me and my brothers. I mean, we didn't give

430
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 2: a shit. It's great, but I'll never forget this. Bob.

431
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: And I was only eight and our dad had gone ahead,

432
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: maybe a few weeks prior, and he telegrammed, Mum, so

433
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 2: I had a house, la la lah, come on up

434
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: and we met us at the station. We had a

435
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: couple of suitcases who were a bit like the Beverly

436
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: Hill Billies, and he had the shitty old Austin seven

437
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: car and we drove and drove and drove hours to

438
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: this little cottage on a hill. It sounds very romantic,

439
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: but I'll never forget. It was dusk was falling, maybe

440
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: six o'clock in the evening, and mom he opened the

441
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: door and she scraped the wall with her hand for

442
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: a light switch, and there was no light switch. And

443
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 2: Dad said, well, I didn't tell you this, but we

444
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: have no electricity, and she said, well, you mean the

445
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: bill hasn't been paid, So no, this house does not

446
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 2: have electricity. And by the way, there's no run in

447
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: water either. We have to get water from the well.

448
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: And that was my home for about six years. So

449
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: for a kid who actually wasn't that bad. We read

450
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: by a candlelight, we had a little gas lamp, and

451
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: we walked to school. I mean, it was quite a

452
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: spartan existence, but it really taught me a lot about

453
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: self sufficiency and just being thankful for today's luxuries, you know.

454
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: But it was tough on my mom. She was only

455
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: about thirty six, beautiful woman, and she'd been dragged from London,

456
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: leaving her friends behind. I think he owed money, quite honestly.

457
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 2: He was a bit of than they're do well. My

458
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: dad but there it is. How many kids were in

459
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: the family, three brothers.

460
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: And where are you in the hierarchy?

461
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: I was in the middle, middle child.

462
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm a middle kid too. Usually you're kind of

463
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: caught lost of the shovel. But I know, man hoten

464
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: dreams are in the oldest one. The other one's a baby.

465
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: So what kind of kid were you? A good school,

466
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: bad school athlete? Friend that was good.

467
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: I you know, they say I'm the people pleaser. I

468
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: don't like that. I'm a people respector. And I always

469
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: wanted to do well. Number one. I wanted to get

470
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 2: the hell out of that. It was not our you know,

471
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: we were city folk, and it became pretty apparent to

472
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: me quite quickly that we didn't really fit in there.

473
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 2: You know, this was way out in this like Idaho.

474
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,719
Speaker 2: We were way out in the boonies, and we had

475
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 2: this plumbing accent. This we stuck out like sore thumbs.

476
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 2: And even though it was a beautiful part of the world,

477
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: it just wasn't for me. And by the time I

478
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: was about thirteen and the Beatles came along in sixty

479
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: two sixty three and music kind of grabbed me. I

480
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: knew that I needed to get out of that area

481
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: in Shropshire and go back down to London and try

482
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: and make a go of being a musician.

483
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: Okay, you know English radio market's completely different. You didn't

484
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: have any electricity, so you can't play the records.

485
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

486
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: How many radio stations? I mean, how did you hear

487
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: the music?

488
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: Well, a great question. We had little transistor radios which

489
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: ran on a batteries and there was this one, thank

490
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: god for it, there was this one radio station called

491
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 2: Radio Luxembourg on the AM dial two to eight to.

492
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: And Luxembourg is a tiny country sandwich between France and Belgium.

493
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: And for some reason, I think it catered to the

494
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: the American forces who were stationed after the Second World

495
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 2: War were stationed all over Europe, so they played they

496
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 2: played black music. They pretty much played black music. I mean,

497
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 2: if you remember Good Morning Vietnam, right, remember when yeah

498
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: Robin comes on, they're playing Lawrence Welk and they're playing

499
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: in these little waltzits and shit, and then Robin Williams

500
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 2: comes on and the whole place. Well that's what Radio

501
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: Luxembourg was, and you could hear it on your little

502
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: transistor radio. And then and I keep forgetting to mention this.

503
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: The pirate radio stations took up residents just off the

504
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 2: three mile limit around England and they could play whatever

505
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: they want because they were outside, they were in international waters.

506
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 2: So Radio Caroline Radio Veronica were the two big pirate

507
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 2: stations and they started playing real albums, not just single

508
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: So you had this perfect storm of the pirate radio stations,

509
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 2: Radio Luxembourg and then the Beatles in sixty three. And

510
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 2: in sixty three I was fourteen, and my interest in

511
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: drumming took off because having played on little pots and

512
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: pans and books on my bed with my transistor radio earpiece.

513
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 2: We moved to a house that actually had electricity after

514
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: six years of living in this cottage, and we got

515
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 2: in a a dem I got a very first TV

516
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 2: and one of the first programs I ever saw was

517
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 2: it was a black and white set and it was

518
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 2: this program called All That Jazz and it featured big bands.

519
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,439
Speaker 2: And I'll never ever forget this. Seeing the curtains drew

520
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: back and there was this huge band, maybe twenty piece band,

521
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: and the drums, I was like, Wow, what is this

522
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 2: guy playing? And I'll never forget it. And I think

523
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 2: that was the lightning bolt which zap me. And that's

524
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 2: when I really that's what I wanted to do, be

525
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 2: a drummer.

526
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: Okay, then there are a couple of steps A getting

527
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: a drum kit, b forming a band. So what was

528
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: happening out there in Shropshire.

529
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 2: Well, I should write a book about this. I got

530
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: in a band, a high school band. I got a

531
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 2: little snare drum my parents bought me for Christmas and

532
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: I started just bashing on this little snare drum and

533
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: every like most high schools throughout the world, we'd have

534
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: an annual concert at the end of every year, every

535
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 2: and every school year. And I did, I don't know,

536
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 2: wipe out the Safaris Doom Doom Doom, Doom, Doom Doom do.

537
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 2: And that became a party piece. And there was a

538
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 2: little drum kit that they had in the school. Anyway,

539
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: So I'm coming back on the school bus, which you know,

540
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: back from from the school to my house about a

541
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: six mile drive, and I'm getting off the bus and

542
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: the bus driver says, oh, Simon, I hear you play drums.

543
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: I said, well, yeah, I do. Yeah. He said, well,

544
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: look do you want to come and play with me?

545
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: What what the fuck. He said, well, I have a

546
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: little This was before disco, so the word didn't come up.

547
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: He said, I have a stack of records which I

548
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 2: go around the village halls and I play on my turntable.

549
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: And I think it would be a good idea, novelty

550
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: if you brought your little drum kit and sat next

551
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 2: to me and played along with it. I said, wow,

552
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: And you know, Bob, that's what I did. For two years.

553
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 2: They got permission for my parents, and I played my

554
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 2: little drum kit, playing along to Can't Buy Me Love,

555
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 2: or the Supremes, or Jim Clark Country and Western, the

556
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 2: occasional waltz, and I played for about two two hours

557
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 2: every night, and I had to keep in time otherwise

558
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 2: it would be a train wreck. And that's where I

559
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: think I had developed this. I got a pretty good

560
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 2: sense of time. But those two years of playing along

561
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: to those records were an invaluable education for me. And

562
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 2: that really and people applauded. I mean, they weren't just

563
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 2: doing it out of kindness, because country folk can be

564
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,959
Speaker 2: pretty tough, especially when they played it hard earned money.

565
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 2: They don't want some little wet behind the ears idiot

566
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 2: ruining their dance. So you know, wherever I went, they said,

567
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 2: oh this new kids are really good and that's what

568
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 2: gave me the idea. I really wanted to be a drummer,

569
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 2: at least given my give it a shot. So a

570
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 2: quick sideline. In England, there's two tiers of education. There's

571
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 2: O level Ordinary level, these are like exams, or there's

572
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 2: A level Advanced level and with A levels you can

573
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 2: get into pretty good colleges or university. O level you

574
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: finish at sixteen and you go off and you get

575
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 2: so and so I wanted to leave school at sixteen

576
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: because I wanted to go down to London. My mum

577
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: and dad said no, because if you fail at what

578
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 2: you're doing and you come back to Shwropshire with only

579
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 2: two or three O levels, you can't get you get

580
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 2: into community college, you can't do anything. Stay another two years,

581
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 2: get A levels and then we'll give you two years.

582
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 2: You leave school at eighteen, we'll give you two years

583
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 2: to do what you want, try and be a success,

584
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: and then you come back at the age of twenty

585
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 2: with I got three A levels, you can go to

586
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: a decent college. So that's what I did. I had

587
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 2: to put my plans on the shelf for two years

588
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 2: and I stayed the extra sixteen seventeen eighteen and I

589
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: got a levels and that's when I left home and

590
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 2: fingers crossed, I went down to London to give it

591
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 2: a go.

592
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, before you go to London, you're playing

593
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: with the bus driver or on to records. Oh yeah,

594
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: did you ever form any beer?

595
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 3: Yeah?

596
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

597
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 2: I was in two bands. One was called the Maniacs,

598
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 2: which I still think is one of the greatest band

599
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 2: names ever. They have seen me at doing my little

600
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 2: disco drumming and this guy came up and he said, yeah,

601
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 2: he played really good mate for a kid. You want

602
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: to be in our band? And I said yes please.

603
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: And this band had one amp. There was four of us,

604
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: now five of us. This amp had twelve inputs, the

605
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: only the only amp ever made with twelve inputs. We

606
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 2: all went through this one app can you believe it?

607
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: Until it burst into flames on one show. So after

608
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: the Maniacs, I joined a band called the heat Wave

609
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 2: after Martha and the Van Della's song. And it was

610
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: a trio me singing Tony Lansit on guitar and Stuart

611
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 2: McDonald on bass and we got pretty good. We went

612
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 2: all over the little tri state area and that lasted

613
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 2: about eighteen months and then I got ready to go

614
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: down to the big city and give myself a shot.

615
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: Okay, the problem with the drummer is the equipment. Usually

616
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: they have a station wagon. You got a show, so

617
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: you're going to leave Shropshire. How do you get to

618
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: get your drum kit to London? And where are you

619
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: going to stay?

620
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: Well, this is where serendipity kicks in. Because my one

621
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 2: of my distatblatives, Lovely Lady, she's no longer with us.

622
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 2: Her family offered to put me up down in Twickenham,

623
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 2: which was a suburb of London, and her son was

624
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 2: a drummer. Can you believe that he had a kit?

625
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: So I could, you know, practice or whatever. And when

626
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 2: I went to auditions there were drums there, so no,

627
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 2: I didn't have to schlep you know my kit down.

628
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: I didn't really have it. I had a tiny little

629
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 2: kit in the country. So I left all that behind

630
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 2: and you know, I answered auditions, I answered ads in

631
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: the Melody Maker, disc New Musical Express, all trades and

632
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 2: nothing really for two years, you know, I just slogged

633
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 2: around doing menial jobs, construction, demolition, car washing, all the time,

634
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: answering ads, and nothing really came of it until the

635
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 2: twenty third month of the twenty four months that my

636
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: parents had given me, and I saw an ad for

637
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,919
Speaker 2: a band called the Black pat Bones, and I thought,

638
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 2: what a great name. That's a great name. And you've

639
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: got to remember, back in sixty eight, the blues scene

640
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 2: in London was huge. It was all Carric Clapton, John Mail,

641
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 2: Peter Green. It was blues, blues, blues. Everywhere you went

642
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:50,439
Speaker 2: it was blues club. So now this club was way

643
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 2: across London, like twenty miles on a subway, a long

644
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: way away. But I thought, wow, I really want to

645
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 2: go and see this band. So I tossed a coin, literally,

646
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: I touched a coin. If it comes downtails, I'll stay

647
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 2: and write some letters home.

648
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: You know.

649
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 2: I got to get up early in the morning. It

650
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 2: came down heads. I thought, screw it, and I went

651
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 2: to see this band. And I walked in. They were okay,

652
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 2: they weren't great. They were doing covers. But the guitarist, wo,

653
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: he was wonderful and he's a little fella, and I

654
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: collared him during the break. I say you know what,

655
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 2: you You're really good, mate, really good, but your drummers shit.

656
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 2: I was desperate, and he said, well, it's funny shud

657
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 2: say that, because tonight is his last night. He's leaving

658
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: us and we're holding auditions here in this pub tomorrow

659
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: if you want to come along. And that was Paul Kossof.

660
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 2: So I came back the next day, another twenty miles

661
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,919
Speaker 2: on the subway, and I auditioned. There was another guy,

662
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: another drummer there, and we played a of blues numbers

663
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,479
Speaker 2: and I got the job. So I was with Paul

664
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 2: coss Off and Black Cat Bones for about six months,

665
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: and then he took me aside one day and said, listen,

666
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 2: I've just met this singer who is so good, and

667
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 2: I fed up with playing these same old standards. I

668
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 2: want to form a band with this guy. And this

669
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: was Paul Rogers and that was the beginnings of Free.

670
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 1: Okay. So everybody was very young.

671
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 2: Very young. I was the oldest and I was nineteen,

672
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 2: you know, and we had to get andy. Well, here's

673
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: the thing. Alexis Corner was the sort of godfather of

674
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: the blues of the English, the London blues scene, and

675
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 2: he had Paul coss Off. He knew Paul, and he said, look,

676
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 2: I know this. He's a kid, by the way, He's

677
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 2: just he's just played with John mail Wow. They just

678
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: he got the sack from John Mayle. I said, well,

679
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 2: if he got the sack, he couldn't have been that good.

680
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 2: But John was always changing personnel. It was no big deal.

681
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: The fact that this kid had played with John Mayle

682
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: meant that he was good. And I said, yeah, all right,

683
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 2: and Alexis said, but he's fifteen. I said, what, he's

684
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: fifteen years old. Wow, But you got to see him.

685
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: So me and Paul cross Off and Paul Rodgers went

686
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: down to see Andy, who was playing at a show

687
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 2: in London, and he was amazing. He was incredible. So

688
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 2: we called him backstage after the gig and we said, look,

689
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: we're forming a band. You want to come in and

690
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 2: he said, well, let me think about it. You know,

691
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 2: it's very cagey. He didn't know any of us. And

692
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: we had a rehearsal the next day at that same

693
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 2: pub where I met Paul kross Off a few weeks prior,

694
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 2: and we got on so well. And during that first rehearsal,

695
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: Alexis corner came in and he was knocked out. He said,

696
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 2: you guys are amazing. You've been it's like you've been

697
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 2: playing together months and this was our first ever jam session.

698
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: And he said, well, what are you going to call yourself?

699
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 2: He said, well, hang on, are we a band? We

700
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 2: kind of looked at each other and he said, yeah,

701
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 2: why not, and he Alexis used to have a band

702
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 2: called Free at Last with Ginger Baker and Graham Bond,

703
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 2: and he said, well, you can't call yourself Free at Last,

704
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 2: how about three?

705
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: So we Alexis came up with a name.

706
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he came up with it,

707
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 2: and we thought, okay, why not. But the only trouble was,

708
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 2: you see, back in those days, Bob, you had these

709
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 2: nebulous names like Yes and Clouds and Taste and you know,

710
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, the Grateful Dead, these weird names.

711
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 2: So Free wasn't that too far removed from reality. But

712
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 2: promoters and club owners were not happy because they put

713
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 2: free and people were thinking, oh, we don't have to pay,

714
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 2: so we were getting this feedback, so they've got to

715
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,800
Speaker 2: call themselves the free oh God, which we had to

716
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 2: do occasionally. But we stuck it out and Free became

717
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:41,479
Speaker 2: a well loved band in England in the United Kingdom. Yeah,

718
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 2: I love Free.

719
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: So how long until you start playing original tunes? And

720
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: how long until you hook up with Chris Blackwell?

721
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 2: No, not long at all. We started, I mean, Paul

722
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 2: and Andy were the main songwriters. They Paul had in

723
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 2: my shadow from the get go. I mean, that was

724
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 2: one of the first songs we practiced, boom boom, bump

725
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 2: bum bum bump, barb boom, and that was one of

726
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: the first songs we played at the rehearsal. Was so

727
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 2: from the very first rehearsal we were doing original stuff.

728
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 2: Then we got a residency at the Marquee, which was

729
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 2: this hallowed club in London where all the big names played,

730
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 2: and we got a residency on Monday Night, which was

731
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,399
Speaker 2: the sort of wasteland of the seven nights of the week,

732
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 2: but it was still the Marquee. And word have gotten

733
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 2: out I think through Alexis, because Alexis was known and

734
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 2: loved in the industry and he put the word out

735
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 2: You've got to see this band Free, they really are good.

736
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: And Muff Windward, Steve's brother was the an r head

737
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: of Island Records. He came down to see us. We

738
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: didn't know he came to see us one Monday night

739
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: and went back to Chris Black and said, you got

740
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 2: to see this band because they are the next big thing.

741
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 2: So Andy, who was the sort of business manager in

742
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,439
Speaker 2: the band, got a call from Chris and said, would

743
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: you like to come and we discuss. I mean, I've

744
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 2: heard about you and like to have a chat and

745
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 2: see if we can go to the next level. Wow,

746
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: Chris blackwell, ah, you know you had traffic, Joe Cocker.

747
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: They were a big label. Island were a really big

748
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 2: label back in the day. So the four of us

749
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 2: went to the Island Records in Oxford Street and here's

750
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: the weird thing. We had to climb the stairs past

751
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 2: an organization called rack r Ak, owned by Peter Grant

752
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 2: and Mickey Mose who knew that five years later we'd

753
00:48:55,719 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 2: be inca hoots with Peter Grant anyway, and that's where

754
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 2: who work with rat Now those people don't know I

755
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: know you who were exactly.

756
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: So you go to Chris and how does that meeting

757
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: turn out?

758
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 2: Well, he said that he said, I've heard a lot

759
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: about you. You know, I trust Muff Winwards judgment and

760
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 2: he says, he says, you're great, la la lah, but

761
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 2: we've got a problem with the name. And we thought,

762
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 2: oh oh. He said, the name doesn't fly. How about

763
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 2: the heavy metal kids were what you're fucking killing? And

764
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 2: we kind of looked at each other and said, nah, nah,

765
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 2: it's got to be free or nothing. And he leaned

766
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 2: in and said, then there's nothing more to discuss ship

767
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 2: and now just reliving that, my stomach sort of goes

768
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 2: a little cold, and we will, all right. So we

769
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 2: stood up and we sort of turned on our heel

770
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 2: and left the office, and we as soon as the

771
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 2: door closed, we looked at it and said, what the

772
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 2: fuck have we done? We just turned down Island Records

773
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 2: because of the name. But deep in our hearts, Bob,

774
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 2: we knew that we'd done the right thing. We'd we'd

775
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 2: acted as a group, as a unified band, and we said, no,

776
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,280
Speaker 2: it's going to be free or nothing. That same evening

777
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 2: and you've got a call from Chris. He said, we'll

778
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 2: give you a six month contract. You go out as free,

779
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 2: see how it goes, and we'll take it from there

780
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 2: and the rest is history. We you know, we stayed

781
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:35,959
Speaker 2: as free.

782
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: Okay, so you get a record deal, you have a band,

783
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 1: how are you supporting yourself as the band playing live

784
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 1: or people working d jobs? What's going on?

785
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 2: No, we were fully professional and we we slogged around

786
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 2: the country. We had a little van, we had a costs.

787
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 2: Pul coss Off did all the driving. We played seven

788
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 2: pretty much seven nights a week, and we gathered this

789
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 2: fan base. We went all over England, Scotland and Wales.

790
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 2: Never went to Ireland and not until late anyway, a

791
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: little foray into France or Germany, but mainly we just

792
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 2: slogged around England, United Kingdom and we built up this

793
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 2: great fan base. I mean especially in the north, Middlesburn, Newcastle,

794
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 2: Durham where Paul was from Middlesbrough, so Paul Rodgers, so

795
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: we had a special connection to the Northeast. And we

796
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 2: released a couple of albums. They didn't do a lot,

797
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 2: they didn't do great.

798
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: Well that's a little bit slower. Yeah, first album. What

799
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 1: was the experience there comes out meant nothing in America?

800
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 2: What was the experience in tons of subs, tons of subs? Well,

801
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 2: basically it was just our it was our set, It

802
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 2: was our fifty minute set. You know, Chris black Will said, look,

803
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 2: I got this producer, Guy Stevens, who was a genius

804
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 2: but a little looney, and he said, I've seen your set.

805
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 2: Just play the set. And that's basically what we did.

806
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 2: It was a live set and we did a few

807
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 2: overdubs and it was great, I mean, but it really

808
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 2: didn't do It didn't make a dent. It was like

809
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 2: a musical calling card. People were aware that there was

810
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 2: a bankle Free, but it really didn't do anything. And

811
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 2: so that was a bit of a disappointment. So after

812
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 2: about six or seven months, we released another album just

813
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: called Free, which had ninety percent I believe maybe one

814
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:49,720
Speaker 2: hundred percent original material.

815
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: Okay, that album you saw on the bins in the

816
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 1: US had no impact, But you know, there's this, there's this.

817
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: About thirty years ago, they put out a compilation in

818
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: A and M Free Molten Gold, which is anybody just

819
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: got to get this. It was a double CD set, unbelievable. Now,

820
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 1: on that album, the Free album, I know I'd heard

821
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: I'll be Creeping on an A and M stampler in

822
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy called Friends Never Forgotten It. But also on

823
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: that album's songs of Yesterday Woman in broad Daylight, I mean,

824
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,240
Speaker 1: oh wow, great stuff on that record.

825
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know your stuff, boll but yeah, that's great. Yeah.

826
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 2: Well I'll be creeping songs of Yesterday. I mean that's

827
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 2: when Paul and Andy really started yelling as songwrites. Is

828
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 2: Woman broad Daylight? Well, that's that's another thing. I'm just

829
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 2: never crazy about that song. That was when singles ruled

830
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 2: the roost and you had to have a single, and

831
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,959
Speaker 2: I to this, I will go to my grade saying

832
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 2: that was the worst possible choice for a single. But

833
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 2: never mind. It kind of established us as not a

834
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,839
Speaker 2: flash in the pan. I mean, Paul and Andy were

835
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 2: writing really really good stuff. We were getting better and

836
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 2: better as we went around the country and Europe, and

837
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:27,320
Speaker 2: we started getting really really good. We just needed a

838
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 2: hit single.

839
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: Okay. Before we get to the hit single, the credits

840
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: say Chris Blackwell produced the second record? Did he really

841
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: produce it?

842
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: Look? For me, when it comes to producing, a producer

843
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 2: is someone, especially if you were wet behind the ears,

844
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 2: newbie in the studio. He you know, he controls everything.

845
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: He's the full crumb or the hinge around which everything revolves.

846
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 2: When you've written all the songs are rain all the songs,

847
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 2: and you're performing all the songs. You produced the album

848
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 2: as far as I'm concerned. Now, Chris became a producer.

849
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 2: You'd have to ask him about that, but he owned

850
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 2: the company. He was very musically astute, and he could

851
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 2: tell the hit from a non hit, and he was

852
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 2: like a dad father figure to us. So I don't

853
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,320
Speaker 2: give him producer credit. But when it comes to actually,

854
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 2: all the albums in my career we produced, as far

855
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 2: as I'm concerned.

856
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: So the only thing I'll say is I spoke with Chris,

857
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 1: and I forget how we put it. How I put

858
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: the question. I asked him about the one band on

859
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: Island that he was most excited about, and he said

860
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 1: it was Free.

861
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 2: Blessing.

862
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: So the second album comes out, as I say, very

863
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: little penetration in the US. I can't speak to the UK.

864
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: But is Chrys still excited? How do you get the

865
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: right to produce the next record in how does Fire

866
00:55:58,200 --> 00:55:59,240
Speaker 1: and Water come together?

867
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 2: Well, by the end of I have to look in

868
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 2: my notes, but after two years of slogging, we had

869
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 2: this huge fan base. I mean, they weren't just huge, Bob,

870
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 2: but they were vociferous. They were passionate. I mean a

871
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 2: free fan.

872
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: Was like whoa.

873
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,439
Speaker 2: And we could do no wrong, particularly in the North.

874
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 2: But we did one show and ironically enough, it was

875
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 2: in Durham, which is in the North, and we came

876
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 2: off to the sound of our own footsteps of the stage.

877
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 2: It was like desultory applause, which was and we had

878
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 2: to walk through the It was unusual because we had

879
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 2: to walk through the crowd to get to the dressing

880
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 2: room at the back of the hall, a different configuration.

881
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 2: So by the time we got even halfway through the crowd,

882
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 2: there was no applause. So we died of death basically.

883
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,399
Speaker 2: And we got into the dressing room and we kind

884
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 2: of threw ourselves on the benches and said, you know,

885
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 2: we need a song, a song that they can dance to.

886
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 2: We need to we need something. We we had this

887
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:11,760
Speaker 2: sort of mid tempo to go back. Bat got nothing

888
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 2: that you could really you could nod your head to,

889
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 2: but you could really dance to it. So and I

890
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 2: truly believe it all right now is born in that

891
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 2: dressing room there and then because Andy said, oh now, baby,

892
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 2: and he's bopping around the showers and the dressing room

893
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 2: of the hooks and more, and he's becomes this possessed

894
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 2: a little lad. He's only seventeen, drumming on his body

895
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 2: all right now. And he said that's it. And him

896
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 2: and Paul they took that seed and they honed it

897
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 2: and it became all right now and we rehearsed it

898
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 2: in sound checks and it became this monster literally monster hit.

899
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 1: And did you know, I mean one of the stories

900
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: on this, I remember talking to Al Cooper and got

901
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: a call saying, we want to come up to the

902
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: studio Atlanta. We got a new song first, Leonard Skinnered

903
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 1: album had just come out, and the new song was

904
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 1: sweet Home Alabama didn't come out for a year. And

905
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: I said, did you know it was a hit? And

906
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: he go, Al says it was sweet Home Alabama. So

907
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: I asked the same thing with all right now. I mean,

908
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 1: you talk about a one listed hit. You didn't even

909
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: have to get all the way through the song to

910
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: get it. Did you guys know what you had?

911
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 2: I knew it. I knew it pretty much. I'll tell

912
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 2: you how I knew because every time he played it,

913
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 2: it kind of re recharge yourself. We did that although

914
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 2: we were a lot younger back then, but we did

915
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 2: all right. Now it was about twenty seven takes and

916
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 2: I just don't but but you know, it's a physical

917
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 2: song to play, and we'd be a bright down or

918
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 2: something that would go wrong with someone with a wrong note.

919
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 2: We'd started all over again. We never got tired of it,

920
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 2: never on playbacks. So I think we used track five

921
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 2: or six, take five or six, and we we came

922
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 2: in and the engineer he looked at us and said,

923
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 2: fucking hell guys. So we said it hit that play

924
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 2: and we listened to it and I thought, wow, man,

925
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 2: this is great because it was unlike anything we'd done before. Bob,

926
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 2: you know, it was us, but in a different genre,

927
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 2: of different whatever you want to call it. It had life.

928
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 2: It had so much life. So now here's a lot

929
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 2: of people don't know this, but this was in Basing

930
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 2: Street and Island Island Records was in Basing Street, an

931
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 2: old converted church, and Chris Blackwell had an apartment above

932
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 2: studio number one. And that's just about two in the

933
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 2: morning and the engineer says, we've got to get Crystal

934
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 2: listening to this. Are you kidding? It's two o'clock in

935
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 2: the morning. The matter, get him out of bed. So

936
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 2: I said, all right, what the hell? So he the engineer,

937
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 2: called him and he said the band wanted to hear something, Chris,

938
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 2: and something like, you know what fucking time it is?

939
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 2: They really, really you got to come and hear this. Now,

940
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 2: luckily he's only a staircase away. So he comes down

941
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 2: and he says something like it's better be good. So

942
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 2: he's sitting there and we hit the plane and now

943
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 2: it's five minutes nearly nearly six minutes long. So the

944
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 2: whole six minutes, I don't want to look at him,

945
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 2: you know, we're trying not to look him and see

946
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 2: his reaction. So the end of the six minutes end

947
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 2: of the song, he said, guys, it's a hit. Wow,

948
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 2: it's a hit, but it's too long boom, And he's right,

949
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 2: I mean, as you know, it's six minutes. At our

950
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: top of the pops was ruled the roost nothing under

951
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 2: three minutes would be allowed. We had to cut a

952
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 2: huge section out of the song. Now, I'd never done

953
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 2: an edit in my life. I didn't know what it

954
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 2: consisted of, how to do it, and we were like, no, no,

955
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 2: you can't do it. Kind of Chris said, I want

956
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 2: you to leave the studio. Come back. I'll call you.

957
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 2: You know, I'll send a guy. There's an all night

958
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 2: cafe around a corner. Come back in half an hour.

959
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 2: I'll let you know when to come back. It'll be

960
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 2: about half an hour. So he's cutting up our baby.

961
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 2: And most people who are pretty you know, pretty good

962
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 2: at engineering will know that the edit on All Right

963
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 2: Now is not very good. But it did the trick.

964
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 2: It snipped out about two and a half minutes, and

965
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 2: we came back and we listened to it. It was

966
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 2: a bit clunky, but wow, it's still sounded good. And

967
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 2: he said, there it is, and I believe they released

968
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 2: it the next week. Now, we had trouble with the BBC.

969
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 2: You know, the BBC at this very strict, stern people

970
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 2: and everyone thought Paul had said let's raise the fucking rent,

971
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,439
Speaker 2: when actually he said it was let's raise the parking rate.

972
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 2: So we had to get one of their guys come down.

973
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 2: We had to isolate the vocal track. We were all there,

974
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 2: little guy with a notebook and pen, No, I just

975
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 2: want to hit the vocal track. So we did and

976
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 2: said and Paul kind of fluffed the p it's like

977
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 2: parking bar, parking parking rate. But anyway, the guy said,

978
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 2: all right, I'm satisfied, la lah lah, we can put

979
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 2: this on top of the pops And the next thing,

980
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 2: you know, it was this huge hit.

981
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 1: Okay, there was a version of the radio in the States,

982
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: and then there was the version on the album with

983
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: little Paul cast Off solo. The version on the album.

984
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: Is that the complete song? Or is that correct?

985
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 2: No? Correct? Okay, that's the full one. And I'm glad

986
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 2: you mentioned cos because I really think he should have

987
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 2: got a credit on that song because his guitar solo

988
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 2: was one of the best ever guitar solos ever recorded.

989
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 2: And I'll never forget seeing him, you know, And I

990
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 2: think we spliced together maybe two takes, but it's one

991
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 2: of the all time great guitar solos and it made

992
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 2: it made the song.

993
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 1: As far as I'm also talking to Paul, who's played

994
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 1: with Jimmy Page, who's played with Brian May so many

995
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 1: of the legends. He said, cast Off was the best

996
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 1: guitarist you ever played, was the most talented. You have

997
01:03:58,400 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: a take on that.

998
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 2: I'm not of the school of the best in anything.

999
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 2: I never you know, music to me is very nebul

1000
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 2: listened to say that someone is the best at anything.

1001
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 2: Coss when he was on, was the most satisfying guitarist

1002
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 2: to play with. Whether or not he was better than Jimmy,

1003
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 2: or Page was better than Hendricks, or Bet was better

1004
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 2: than Jimmy or La La Lai. You could go on

1005
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 2: and on. But at the time, because Coss was a

1006
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 2: dear brother and a friend of mine and I loved

1007
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 2: him to death before the drugs really took over. When

1008
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 2: he was on, he made me weep. He was just

1009
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:44,479
Speaker 2: so good. So yeah, Coss is one of the great

1010
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 2: guitarists of all time. And considering he was only around

1011
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 2: not even five or six years, the impact that he

1012
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 2: had on guitar playing is staggering.

1013
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 1: So what was it like having a world wide number

1014
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 1: one record?

1015
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 2: What do they say, be careful what you wish for.

1016
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 2: It was amazing at the time. It was everything that

1017
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 2: we wanted. Bob, You know, why does a band get

1018
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 2: together in the first place To have fun, to pull girls,

1019
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 2: to have drinking, to travel la la la. But ultimately,

1020
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 2: you want to be a success, and you want to

1021
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 2: earn money, you want to travel to different countries, and

1022
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 2: you want to play the thousands of people, and we did.

1023
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 2: We got all that, We got all that, and we

1024
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 2: you know, we got the Golden Ring. We managed to

1025
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 2: get it and then the ship Yeah tell me tell

1026
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 2: me the shit hit the fan. Well, the shit hit

1027
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 2: the fan because we couldn't follow it up. And this

1028
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 2: was not just the top fifty hit in some country

1029
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 2: or so, this was a top three hit around the world.

1030
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 2: It was huge and it was, like I said, everything

1031
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 2: we wanted, but suddenly we had to follow it up.

1032
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 2: How do you follow all right Now? You can't. It's

1033
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:13,600
Speaker 2: just impossible because you set the bar. You set the

1034
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 2: bar so high. Because we wanted a band too, We

1035
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 2: wanted a song quote that people could dance to. Well,

1036
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 2: we've ticked that box. How do you follow that with

1037
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 2: another song of that success? So we couldn't. Fire and

1038
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 2: Water was a huge success, or right Now. It was

1039
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 2: a huge success. To follow up to the single all

1040
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 2: Right Now was the Steeler, which was a great song,

1041
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 2: but it wasn't nowhere near. It didn't have the attraction

1042
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 2: that all Right Now had a highway. Although musically a

1043
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 2: beautiful album and one of my favorite free albums, it

1044
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 2: just died a death. So we came down to a

1045
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 2: very very quickly. And because of the success of All

1046
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 2: Right Now, we were playing different countries every night, not

1047
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 2: just different towns. We were going around the world. We

1048
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 2: were doing this and that, we were doing press comfries

1049
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 2: and we were getting burned out, and Ireland wanted to

1050
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 2: capitalize as businessmen, I want to do and they kept

1051
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 2: booking us more shows, more shows. We're getting bet up

1052
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 2: with it. Paul Rogers was the first to say, I

1053
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 2: want to rest. I'm tired of this. I've had enough.

1054
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,920
Speaker 2: I want to rest. But no, they wouldn't do it.

1055
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 2: So and I really think this is where the management

1056
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 2: dropped the ball.

1057
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 1: Who was the manager, Well, it was Chris.

1058
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 2: Black, Chris and John Glover, and they should have listened

1059
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 2: to us. And I've told Chris to his face that

1060
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 2: you know, they should have given us a rest. You know,

1061
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 2: six months. Six months is nothing in rock and roll.

1062
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 2: It's not a big deal. We should have had arrest

1063
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 2: and they didn't. So we came in to me and

1064
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 2: Paul Kossoff, we were living together. We came into one

1065
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 2: of the mixing sessions for my brother Jake, which was

1066
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: a single, and the atmosphere of Paul and Andy Paul

1067
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 2: Rodgers and Andy were there with the engineer and the

1068
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 2: atmosphere was terrible. Hey guys, how you doing that? Okay, oh,

1069
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,600
Speaker 2: what's up? And then he said, you know when we

1070
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 2: when we reached Australia, that's going to be our last show,

1071
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,720
Speaker 2: and me, of course went what. Yeah, we're tired, we

1072
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 2: fed up with it. I said, well, let's just have

1073
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 2: a break. No no, no, musically I forget the actual words,

1074
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 2: but we've come to the end of our road. We're

1075
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:50,719
Speaker 2: breaking up the band. And I was I was stunned.

1076
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 2: I mean wow, and we kept it. Now this is

1077
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 2: where we dropped the ball because we should have told management,

1078
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:01,640
Speaker 2: and I think there was a certain fuck you. You know,

1079
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 2: you're not listening to us, so we're not going to

1080
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:07,479
Speaker 2: talk to you. And thinking about it now, it's the

1081
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 2: first time I thought about it. We should have. I

1082
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 2: should have gone to Johnny Glover and Chris. I said, hey,

1083
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 2: you're in danger of losing this band unless you light

1084
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 2: it up. But once Paul Rodgers makes up his mind,

1085
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 2: you can't change it. So we didn't tell Johnny. We

1086
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 2: left for Japan and Australia, we didn't tell Johnny Glover

1087
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 2: that we would breaking up until we'd taken off of Japan.

1088
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 2: We were in mid air, Paul went up to and

1089
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 2: whatever he said to him, and Johnny's face fell a

1090
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 2: thousand miles. So we had to go through the whole

1091
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 2: of the Japanese tour and the Australian to knowing that

1092
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:50,640
Speaker 2: when we got to Randwick Race Course in Sydney that

1093
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 2: would be our final show. And it was until we reformed.

1094
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 2: But that's another story.

1095
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:04,639
Speaker 1: Okay, you re formed, it ultimately doesn't take Let's jump forward.

1096
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 1: How do you form bad company?

1097
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 2: Okay, so yeah, free fell apart. Coss developed this dreadful

1098
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 2: drug problem, et cetera said, and we we said enough,

1099
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 2: we can't do it anymore. So I went to Brazil.

1100
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:23,320
Speaker 2: I stayed there for a few months. Paul went to

1101
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 2: Japan when a lady married her and formed his own

1102
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 2: band called Peace.

1103
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 1: Before we get there. Had you made any money in

1104
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:36,960
Speaker 1: this whole success?

1105
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 2: No? Not really. Yeah, I mean not a lot. But

1106
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:45,759
Speaker 2: I was single. I had enough to get into trouble nicely.

1107
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:48,679
Speaker 2: But no, no, I didn't have a lot of money.

1108
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 2: I didn't write the songs. I just saved money from

1109
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 2: personal concerts and royalties. Mechanical waters, but no, not a

1110
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 2: lot of money at all.

1111
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:02,720
Speaker 1: Okay, So Paul forums piece, he forms.

1112
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:04,599
Speaker 2: Peace and they go on the road with Mot the Hoople.

1113
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:08,599
Speaker 2: He's opening for Mo the Hoople and during this time

1114
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:13,679
Speaker 2: What the Hoople are huge, huge band, all the young dudes,

1115
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 2: as you know, the David Bowie connection, a la big band.

1116
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 2: But Mick Ralphs, the guitarist, is very unhappy. He's been

1117
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 2: you know, he's not getting on with Ian Hunter, and

1118
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 2: him and Paul developed this relationship, this friendship, and they

1119
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:33,679
Speaker 2: start jamming together in the dressing room before the shows,

1120
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 2: La la lah. Mick brings him this little real to

1121
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 2: real of this song called Can't Get Enough, and he says,

1122
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 2: Ian doesn't want to do it, and Mick plays it

1123
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 2: to Paul and said, Paul says, fucking hell, this is

1124
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:49,640
Speaker 2: this is amazing, and he starts singing along with it.

1125
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 2: And Mick told me, he told me later, he said,

1126
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:55,720
Speaker 2: when Paul started singing along to Can't Get Enough, his

1127
01:11:55,920 --> 01:12:00,719
Speaker 2: heart just soared because Paul just did what Paul Rodgers

1128
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 2: does to a song. He just elevated it. So anyway,

1129
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 2: long story short, at the end of that tour, mix

1130
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 2: ses I'm leaving mat the Hoople, Paul breaks up his

1131
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,080
Speaker 2: band Peace and they formed us.

1132
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: Because it hasn't been covered. After he left Martha Hoople,

1133
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 1: they got aerie old Bender, the guy from Spooky Tooth.

1134
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 1: They never had, They never had teple a little says,

1135
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 1: did Ian Hunter care that Mick Ralph's left to.

1136
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 2: The degree, you know, I honestly don't know. I don't know.

1137
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: So in any event, Mick leaves Mark the Hoople and

1138
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 1: Paul breaks up Peace continue. Yeah.

1139
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 2: So they started this friendship and they started writing songs together.

1140
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 2: And I called Paul from Brazil just to see it.

1141
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:50,400
Speaker 2: We always got on very well. Free was dead and gone,

1142
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 2: and I just wanted to see what he was up to.

1143
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,919
Speaker 2: You've got to remember we were still in our early twenties.

1144
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:59,080
Speaker 2: I was twenty five. Paul is six months younger than me,

1145
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,960
Speaker 2: so we were both in our late you know, twenty

1146
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 2: four to twenty five. He said, well, I'm you know,

1147
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,040
Speaker 2: I'm getting a band together with Mick. You know, you

1148
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 2: want to play drums. I loved him, man, and I

1149
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:14,839
Speaker 2: flew back to England and I went to Paul's cottage.

1150
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:18,360
Speaker 2: He's got a little cottage outside London for a little

1151
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 2: get together. With Mick, and Mick was lovely and I

1152
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 2: love him to this day. He was a sweetheart. He

1153
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 2: is funny, great player, very underrated player, but he just

1154
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:34,080
Speaker 2: had this wonderful humanitarian vibe about him and nothing could

1155
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 2: be too much sub for him. He was great. And

1156
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:41,600
Speaker 2: we had this song. He had this song moving on,

1157
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 2: this thing in open Sea tuning. He had this guitar

1158
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 2: tune to open Sea and he did this wow, wow wow,

1159
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:54,439
Speaker 2: And I started playing drums for that. Wow, that's two

1160
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 2: songs we've got. Can't get enough and moving on. And

1161
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 2: then Paull had rock Steady Barn and suddenly we're like,

1162
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 2: hocking hell. We got some songs here. And then the

1163
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:11,760
Speaker 2: quest for a bass player started. But before that we

1164
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 2: needed a manager because we knew it was like you

1165
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:18,439
Speaker 2: go back five years when Free was in that little pub.

1166
01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:23,200
Speaker 2: We knew he had something. Now this was Mick Rause,

1167
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 2: Paul Rogers and myself, and we knew our road manager

1168
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:32,800
Speaker 2: who was floating road manager with Free was a New

1169
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:36,400
Speaker 2: Zealander who had a friend from New Zealand who was

1170
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 2: roading for Led Zeppelin. And this is where the tie

1171
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:44,160
Speaker 2: comes in. And Clive, who rode it for Led Zeppelin

1172
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:49,920
Speaker 2: gave Paul Rodgers Peter Grant's number, because Paul, being Paul, says,

1173
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:53,120
Speaker 2: who's the biggest ban in the world, Led Zeppelin, who

1174
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 2: manages led Zepplin, Peter Grant, Let's call Peter Grant. So

1175
01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 2: he did, and Peter Grant said, I've heard already, have

1176
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 2: heard about about you guys. What we haven't even got

1177
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 2: a bass player, so it doesn't matter. I want to

1178
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 2: come and see you. So Peter Grant came to see

1179
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:15,560
Speaker 2: us in a little village hall and he did a

1180
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 2: very clever thing. Bob. We're waiting and there's no cell

1181
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:22,040
Speaker 2: phones in those days. Peter Grant said, I'll be there

1182
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:25,680
Speaker 2: at two o'clock. Two o'clock comes, we're playing. It's just me,

1183
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 2: Paul and Mick and a bass player who actually didn't

1184
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 2: get the job. We play the same ten songs. Three

1185
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:36,160
Speaker 2: o'clock comes, no Peter, play the same ten songs. Four o'clock,

1186
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 2: no Peter. Finally four point thirty, Peter Grant walks in

1187
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:45,880
Speaker 2: and hello, and we said, well, take a seat, we'll

1188
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 2: play you the set. He said, don't worry, I've heard

1189
01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 2: it what he said. I've been in the car park.

1190
01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 2: He says, I've been in the car park listening to

1191
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,240
Speaker 2: you through the open window. He said, I knew you'd

1192
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:00,840
Speaker 2: be nervous, so I just didn't want to you guys off.

1193
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 2: I've heard what you can do, and I think you're

1194
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 2: fucking great. You want to be on our new label

1195
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:09,400
Speaker 2: called Swan Song. We said, yes. Please.

1196
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. Do you think this is,

1197
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:16,720
Speaker 1: you know, kind of obscure. But do you think if

1198
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 1: you hadn't been on Swan Song you get more respect

1199
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 1: and you might have been in the rock and Roll

1200
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame? Or did you get wrapped up in

1201
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:29,120
Speaker 1: the Hall led Zeppelin thing and therefore people didn't give

1202
01:16:29,160 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 1: you the same respect.

1203
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,599
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't No one's ever answering that before.

1204
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:38,680
Speaker 2: Short answer, I don't know. I don't want to get

1205
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:43,080
Speaker 2: into hot water here. But you know, Zeppelin were in

1206
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame. I mean, there's no way you

1207
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 2: could not have Zeppelin the Hall of Fame. Jimmy, Yeah,

1208
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 2: but I mean one of the great guitarists of all time,

1209
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:55,320
Speaker 2: Peter Grant was not a popular man. And we all

1210
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:59,600
Speaker 2: know Peter's reputation and he's no longer with us, but

1211
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 2: he had a fearsome reputation. He pissed off a lot

1212
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 2: of people in America. But I think, also, ah, what

1213
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 2: the hell I think? Because of bad companies changing lineups

1214
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:16,960
Speaker 2: over the fifty years that we've been together, it kind

1215
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 2: of devalued our currency a little bit. And you know,

1216
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:23,120
Speaker 2: you had the Brian Howe era, you had the Paul

1217
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:26,840
Speaker 2: Rodgers era one and two. When Paul rejoined the band,

1218
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 2: we had Robert Hart. So I honestly don't know why

1219
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:38,200
Speaker 2: we have not been nominated, not even inducted. You have

1220
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:41,639
Speaker 2: to be nominated first, as you know. But I never

1221
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 2: thought about the connection with the I mean, Arma Urtigan

1222
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:47,800
Speaker 2: was one of the founder members of the Hall of Fame,

1223
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 2: and him and Peter Grant were like two p's in

1224
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:54,800
Speaker 2: a bard. I mean, they were great friends. So I

1225
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 2: really can't answer that succinctly, quite honestly.

1226
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:00,759
Speaker 1: Okay, let's start for a second talk about Peter Grit.

1227
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:02,679
Speaker 1: What was up with Peter Grit?

1228
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:08,320
Speaker 2: Oh, if he was in your corner, you couldn't ask

1229
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 2: for a better friend. And I loved him. I mean

1230
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:13,679
Speaker 2: he was a father figure. Even though he was only

1231
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 2: a couple of years older than me. He was like

1232
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 2: the father figure. But he wheah. He had a drug

1233
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 2: problem up the wazoo. I mean, he was what I

1234
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 2: didn't like about the whole Swan song, the whole Peter

1235
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:37,879
Speaker 2: Grant thing was the thuggishness, the violence, the thunder and lightning,

1236
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,479
Speaker 2: the whole thing about, you know, intimidating people.

1237
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:43,799
Speaker 1: And I saw that many.

1238
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:48,719
Speaker 2: Many times with the whole Peter Grant organization. He hired thugs,

1239
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:54,160
Speaker 2: he hired violent men around him and they were all

1240
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:56,679
Speaker 2: doing blow. We all did it, and that made people

1241
01:18:56,760 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 2: even worse. And I'm just telling it. I'm telling things

1242
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:04,760
Speaker 2: that a lot of people know anyway. That you know,

1243
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 2: he had a guy called John Bindon who was a

1244
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:11,599
Speaker 2: convicted murderer. I mean he he could knock people out

1245
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 2: with one punch. He was not a nice guy. And

1246
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 2: I think it all it's calm it. It came back

1247
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:22,680
Speaker 2: on him because he developed this drug problem Peter did.

1248
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:27,880
Speaker 2: He became a recluse. He couldn't lose weight. He was

1249
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 2: very He's always a very big guy, became obese and

1250
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:33,840
Speaker 2: that was his excuse. You I don't want to eat

1251
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,160
Speaker 2: so much, so you know, I'll do blow or whatever.

1252
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:40,880
Speaker 2: But in a rage, you didn't want to be around him.

1253
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:44,599
Speaker 2: He was not a nice guy, but when he when

1254
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 2: he loved you, he was he was a great company.

1255
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 2: I have to say, you know.

1256
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 1: You've been around how sharp a guy was he is

1257
01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 1: a manager?

1258
01:19:55,760 --> 01:20:00,680
Speaker 2: I think he had this this street wise qualit to him.

1259
01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 2: You'd have to ask people who did deals with him.

1260
01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:07,760
Speaker 2: I mean, he was fiersome, he looks. He changed the

1261
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:13,600
Speaker 2: whole touring right scene. You know, where promoters got the

1262
01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:17,719
Speaker 2: lion's share of a gate. Suddenly when it was Zeppelin,

1263
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:22,479
Speaker 2: it was ninety Zeppelin ten percent for the who is

1264
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:27,000
Speaker 2: it conscious West with the big promoters. So he changed

1265
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,600
Speaker 2: that whole scene. And now I'm not saying that that

1266
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:34,320
Speaker 2: was relevant to across the board, but he did turn

1267
01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 2: things around in favor of the artists, no question. So

1268
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:41,920
Speaker 2: I think he was a very sharp business man, no question.

1269
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:44,719
Speaker 1: Let's go back. So how'd you get Barz Burrell?

1270
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:49,479
Speaker 2: Ah, well, Buzz. We had a list of sixteen bass

1271
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:52,639
Speaker 2: players and Buzz was in King Crimson. And we never

1272
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:55,880
Speaker 2: liked King Crimson except for the name. I got to say,

1273
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:58,400
Speaker 2: one of the great, one of the great band names

1274
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:01,000
Speaker 2: of all time. But it was in our cup of tea.

1275
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 2: You know, I was raised on stacks and motown and

1276
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 2: you know, soul black music. So King Crimson anyway, Bars

1277
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:11,519
Speaker 2: was at the very bottom. And we went through fifteen

1278
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 2: other bass players and none of them worked, and we thought,

1279
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:17,639
Speaker 2: fuck it, and we called him up and we met

1280
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 2: in a rehearsal place off the King's Road, and I

1281
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 2: believe he came down and he was a great looking guy,

1282
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:30,000
Speaker 2: very funny and amenable and gracious, and he said, let's

1283
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 2: not play for it, but let's go to the pub

1284
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:33,120
Speaker 2: and have a drink and get to know each other,

1285
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:35,560
Speaker 2: all right. So we went and had a couple of

1286
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:39,800
Speaker 2: pints and then we came back and we did a

1287
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:42,920
Speaker 2: little Little Misfortune, which was a B side of a

1288
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 2: Bad Company song, and mix says here Boss goes from

1289
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 2: G to sit and Boss says, no, no, no, I

1290
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:52,040
Speaker 2: don't tell me the chords. I'll figure it out all right.

1291
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 2: And he played. Yeah, he played great, and we liked

1292
01:21:56,400 --> 01:22:00,519
Speaker 2: him from the get go, and we offered him the

1293
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:02,599
Speaker 2: job at the end of the session. He was so good.

1294
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:08,880
Speaker 1: Okay, the title album, the title cut Bad Company, which

1295
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:12,599
Speaker 1: I prefer to can't get enough. You're a credited as

1296
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:16,280
Speaker 1: a Colt writer. How did Bad Company come about? Well?

1297
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:19,880
Speaker 2: The interesting thing about Bad Company was Paul came up

1298
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:24,200
Speaker 2: the piano riff, and it's an unusual rock song because

1299
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:27,720
Speaker 2: it's an E flat minor, and any keyboard player will

1300
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:29,719
Speaker 2: tell you that E flat miner was all the black

1301
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:32,880
Speaker 2: notes on a piano, and most rock songs are in

1302
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:37,720
Speaker 2: A or E or G or whatever. C can't get

1303
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:40,439
Speaker 2: enough as in C and C is what they call

1304
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:43,640
Speaker 2: the people's chord. It's kind of a common chord. So

1305
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:46,920
Speaker 2: E flat miner it was. And Paul had this great

1306
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 2: bomb bomb bomb and he played it to me on

1307
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 2: the piano. The Wow, it's nice. It's set a mood,

1308
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 2: and as soon as you hear it on it whatever

1309
01:22:56,439 --> 01:23:00,240
Speaker 2: radio or high file or sonas or whatever, as soon

1310
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:03,639
Speaker 2: as you hear then opening chords, it really clicks something

1311
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:05,599
Speaker 2: in you and still does to this day.

1312
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 1: So we just, you know, we tossed.

1313
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:11,559
Speaker 2: Ideas around and I came up with one line, Paul

1314
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 2: came up with another line, and I think we did

1315
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:17,519
Speaker 2: it in about twenty minutes and a glass of beer

1316
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:18,080
Speaker 2: and a joint.

1317
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 1: Okay, Ready for Love had been on the first Martha

1318
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:33,320
Speaker 1: Ball Columbia album, sung by Mick. How did you guys

1319
01:23:33,400 --> 01:23:36,360
Speaker 1: decide to do that? On the first Bad Company, right well.

1320
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:39,479
Speaker 2: One of one of mixed, one of the best songs

1321
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:44,320
Speaker 2: ever written. And as soon as Paul heard it, he said, well,

1322
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:46,120
Speaker 2: I want to do it, and Mix said, well, we've

1323
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:49,640
Speaker 2: done it already. I don't give a shit. I'm going

1324
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:52,439
Speaker 2: to sing this. We're gonna we're going to revitalize it

1325
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:56,720
Speaker 2: because the Mamma Hooper version is not great, but the

1326
01:23:56,800 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 2: way Paul sings it and the whole piano solo, it's

1327
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:03,560
Speaker 2: a beautiful and we were when we were playing it,

1328
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:07,599
Speaker 2: Bowie was in the next studio. We were in Olympic

1329
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 2: Studios in Barns in London and Bowie came in and

1330
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:14,840
Speaker 2: we didn't know he was there. He was just sat down.

1331
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:17,599
Speaker 2: We walked in and Bo said, he said, that song

1332
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 2: is so fucking good. So hey, if if it's all

1333
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 2: right by David, it's going on the album.

1334
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:28,960
Speaker 1: And of course one more Seagull. What can you tell

1335
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:31,720
Speaker 1: me about the Well Seagull was one.

1336
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:37,479
Speaker 2: Hundred Paul, and you know, he had this beautiful song

1337
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:40,040
Speaker 2: and it's still to this day. I mean, whenever he

1338
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:43,479
Speaker 2: plays it, people just go into raptures. It's a very

1339
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:47,400
Speaker 2: simple song in D major and he sings the hell

1340
01:24:47,439 --> 01:24:49,600
Speaker 2: out of it, and it's it's just one of the

1341
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:51,599
Speaker 2: all time beautiful acoustic songs.

1342
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 1: Okay, So from this side of the fence as a fan,

1343
01:24:57,160 --> 01:25:02,280
Speaker 1: I can't get enough hit the FM radio. The album

1344
01:25:02,479 --> 01:25:07,840
Speaker 1: comes out very shortly thereafter, huge success from minute one.

1345
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 1: That was a paradigm that was not happening back then

1346
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:16,920
Speaker 1: for something usually a percolated FM radio you played because

1347
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 1: this thing was a monster from day one. What was

1348
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:22,880
Speaker 1: the experience on your side of the fence.

1349
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:27,040
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you had this perfect storm, Bob. You know,

1350
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:32,719
Speaker 2: you had the release of the launch of Swansong Records.

1351
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:39,320
Speaker 2: Zeppelin publicity machine goes into overdrive. We had these launch

1352
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:43,760
Speaker 2: parties in Beverly Hills and New York City. We're the

1353
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:49,519
Speaker 2: first band other than Zeppelin on Swanson Records. We had

1354
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:53,800
Speaker 2: this out of the box amazing album from the get go.

1355
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:56,920
Speaker 2: I mean it just we're all good looking lads, we're

1356
01:25:56,960 --> 01:26:00,599
Speaker 2: in our mid twenties. We've all come from very well

1357
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:04,559
Speaker 2: known bands in England and to a lesser degree in America.

1358
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 2: So it couldn't really fail. And you've got to remember

1359
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:12,240
Speaker 2: that we we could back it up. It's all. It's

1360
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:14,479
Speaker 2: one thing having a great album but unless you can

1361
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:18,160
Speaker 2: go out on the stage and produce a live show

1362
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:22,120
Speaker 2: that is as good as that album, then it's going

1363
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:27,040
Speaker 2: to fall. So every book was tipped. We had the publicity,

1364
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:30,760
Speaker 2: We had Zeppelin. We were riding on their coattails. If

1365
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 2: you wish, if you will, we did a tour. We

1366
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:39,040
Speaker 2: went all over the States, opening for other people, by

1367
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:41,720
Speaker 2: the way, and at the end of the tour we

1368
01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:43,040
Speaker 2: had our first gold album.

1369
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:48,720
Speaker 1: Okay, unlike in Free you do follow it up with

1370
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 1: Street Shooter, which is actually bigger than the first album.

1371
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 1: Feel Like Making Love just takes over and feel Like

1372
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:01,880
Speaker 1: Making Love there's not sound like can't get enough. So

1373
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 1: tell me how you get that song, and tell me

1374
01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:05,280
Speaker 1: more about the second album.

1375
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:09,400
Speaker 2: Well, but Paul had Paul and Mick had these two

1376
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:12,720
Speaker 2: separate songs. I'll never forget. I think Mick had a

1377
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:18,760
Speaker 2: little country d T G B. And then Paul had

1378
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:23,880
Speaker 2: this great riff. He might be the other way around.

1379
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:26,080
Speaker 2: I'm not sure who had it, But I said, you

1380
01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:30,840
Speaker 2: know what, because neither of the ideas was going anywhere,

1381
01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:33,840
Speaker 2: So why don't you just marry the two have the

1382
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 2: versus a little country thing and have the chorus as

1383
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:40,320
Speaker 2: this riff so we ran it a few times and

1384
01:27:40,439 --> 01:27:44,400
Speaker 2: you know what, it took off. So that was feeling't

1385
01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:47,880
Speaker 2: making Love. Still to this day, I believe if you

1386
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:52,719
Speaker 2: go on Pandora, I think it's next to Bad Company.

1387
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:55,479
Speaker 2: It's the most played Bad Company song ever.

1388
01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:59,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, the only time I've sung karaoke in my

1389
01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:01,320
Speaker 1: life was on a boat, and the only song I

1390
01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:02,920
Speaker 1: sang was feel like making Love.

1391
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:06,080
Speaker 2: I want to see a YouTube of that.

1392
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:10,840
Speaker 1: God, it doesn't exist. Can you tell me anything about

1393
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:11,599
Speaker 1: Shooting Star?

1394
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:17,679
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, probably my one of my favorite songs

1395
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:21,160
Speaker 2: of Paul. Well, we were going on to our next tour.

1396
01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 2: We were in He Throw, He Throw Airport and we

1397
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:26,800
Speaker 2: all got there as the start of our second tour.

1398
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:30,800
Speaker 2: Everyone's like, well, can't wait, and Paul is sort of

1399
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 2: sequested himself away in a corner of the departure or

1400
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:40,519
Speaker 2: he's got his little guitar and he's and they're calling

1401
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:45,240
Speaker 2: the flights in flight seven three to New York. Paul,

1402
01:28:45,320 --> 01:28:48,439
Speaker 2: come on, So I'm nearly finished. I'm nearly finished, and

1403
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:53,439
Speaker 2: he's finishing the last verse to Shooting Star, which he

1404
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:58,320
Speaker 2: played when he finally arrived in New York. He played

1405
01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:00,920
Speaker 2: us and it was just John he was a schoolboy

1406
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:05,640
Speaker 2: when he heard his first Beatle song and it was,

1407
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:08,840
Speaker 2: oh man, one of the great I think, one of

1408
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:12,160
Speaker 2: his finest songs because it's still relevant today. I mean

1409
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:16,040
Speaker 2: it's fifty years later, it still rings a bell and

1410
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:20,080
Speaker 2: addiction and the price of fame and so on and

1411
01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:23,679
Speaker 2: so forth. So you feel like I'm making love, shooting

1412
01:29:23,760 --> 01:29:28,599
Speaker 2: star good, loving one bad. I mean, three stellar tracks.

1413
01:29:29,040 --> 01:29:36,759
Speaker 2: And that's why for me, what's the name? The second

1414
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:38,599
Speaker 2: album is my favorite album?

1415
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:41,600
Speaker 1: Well, the funny thing is the hits are on the

1416
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 1: first side, but once you burn that out Paul's vocal

1417
01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:51,200
Speaker 1: and deal with the preacher and then I wild fire

1418
01:29:51,240 --> 01:29:58,000
Speaker 1: a woman really astounding. Okay, Run with the Pack is

1419
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:01,519
Speaker 1: the next album I got. I ask you because this

1420
01:30:01,720 --> 01:30:03,719
Speaker 1: is my favorite Bad Company song.

1421
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:03,920
Speaker 2: You.

1422
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:06,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's any story but simple man.

1423
01:30:08,040 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 1: Oh well, yeah, freedom is the only thing that means

1424
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:13,439
Speaker 1: a damn to me, to.

1425
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:16,519
Speaker 2: Me, yeah, especially if you live in New Hampshire.

1426
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 1: What is it? Yeah?

1427
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:19,240
Speaker 2: Die?

1428
01:30:19,360 --> 01:30:19,559
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1429
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:23,800
Speaker 2: That was I think that was a definitely a fifty

1430
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 2: to fifty collaboration with Mick because Mick came up with

1431
01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:33,920
Speaker 2: that the beautiful guitar riff, that descending riff and then Paul.

1432
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:38,599
Speaker 2: When Paul sung this, I mean whoa when he hit

1433
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:44,599
Speaker 2: that that final verse, I'm but a simple man. God Wow, yeah,

1434
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:48,080
Speaker 2: I'm Yeah. Not much else I can say about it.

1435
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:49,719
Speaker 2: It's a joy to play.

1436
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:54,200
Speaker 1: Okay, you have three big hits in the album. The

1437
01:30:54,439 --> 01:31:00,840
Speaker 1: next album is Burning Sky. I like the remember Robert

1438
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:03,240
Speaker 1: Hilbert not that just because I live in LA. It

1439
01:31:03,400 --> 01:31:06,519
Speaker 1: was trashing the lyrics whatever of leaving you, but it

1440
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:09,800
Speaker 1: had Bernard's guy had an incredible sound. What was the

1441
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:13,960
Speaker 1: experience you had? Did you feel that it wasn't as successful?

1442
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:15,439
Speaker 1: Was it all blur?

1443
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:18,760
Speaker 2: What was it like? Well, it was, you know, we'd

1444
01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:22,280
Speaker 2: come full circle. Really we had three great albums and

1445
01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:25,720
Speaker 2: then we started getting tired. We were we were doing

1446
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:29,280
Speaker 2: that whole round the world thing again, and we were

1447
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:33,000
Speaker 2: we were contracted to do an album. We had a

1448
01:31:33,160 --> 01:31:38,559
Speaker 2: deadline to meet, and we were being the young rap

1449
01:31:38,640 --> 01:31:42,240
Speaker 2: scallions that we were. We were unaware. We come off

1450
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:45,639
Speaker 2: this third American tour where we'd done like one hundred,

1451
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:50,840
Speaker 2: one hundred shows in four months, something ridiculous, and we said,

1452
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:53,720
Speaker 2: oh now let's have a break. And the guys went,

1453
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:57,519
Speaker 2: uh uh, you got an album to make what yeah,

1454
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:00,800
Speaker 2: by the end of October or you get penalty of

1455
01:32:00,920 --> 01:32:08,639
Speaker 2: some bullshit. So when we convened in the chateau Ville

1456
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:14,760
Speaker 2: just outside Parish to what were what would become Bernie Sky,

1457
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 2: we only had I think four four and a half

1458
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:22,320
Speaker 2: songs and most of them weren't really that good, quite honestly.

1459
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:26,519
Speaker 2: So yeah, and we got panned. I mean the album

1460
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:29,720
Speaker 2: Bernie Sky was great, and I think that was one

1461
01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:33,519
Speaker 2: song that Paul had finished and done and that was

1462
01:32:33,640 --> 01:32:36,680
Speaker 2: really good. But there were a couple of jams we

1463
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:39,760
Speaker 2: did to make up for it, and we were we

1464
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:42,800
Speaker 2: were getting tired, a bit ragged, and it was a

1465
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:46,120
Speaker 2: lot of fun, I have to say, but we came

1466
01:32:46,240 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 2: ill prepared and it did show in that album.

1467
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 1: So it takes two years for the next album to

1468
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:55,520
Speaker 1: come out. What goes on in those two years.

1469
01:32:56,880 --> 01:33:03,080
Speaker 2: That would be Desolation Angels, right, Yeah, well same ORed.

1470
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:06,200
Speaker 2: I mean, the drugs started. I started getting into the drugs.

1471
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:09,760
Speaker 2: We all do, quite honestly, except for Paul. I'll put

1472
01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:12,880
Speaker 2: my hand up there straight away. Paul stopped doing drugs

1473
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:16,280
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy six. But me, but Mick and Boz

1474
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:20,400
Speaker 2: we were, you know, I was still in my I

1475
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:24,200
Speaker 2: was twenty eight, yeah, twenty eight, twenty nine. Boz was

1476
01:33:24,240 --> 01:33:26,720
Speaker 2: a couple of years older. Mick was maybe in his

1477
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 2: early thirties. We were still rocking, you know, partying, to

1478
01:33:31,560 --> 01:33:37,439
Speaker 2: use a euphemism, and we we were resting on our laurels.

1479
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:40,920
Speaker 2: We wanted a break. We deserved it. We had four

1480
01:33:41,120 --> 01:33:44,080
Speaker 2: platinum albums in a row, bollocks. We weren't going to

1481
01:33:44,160 --> 01:33:47,559
Speaker 2: do anything, and we had to do a tax year

1482
01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:53,800
Speaker 2: out because of the crippling taxes in in England. So

1483
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:56,880
Speaker 2: we just kind of twiddled out armas for a couple

1484
01:33:56,880 --> 01:33:59,439
Speaker 2: of years. I think we did a tour we will

1485
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:01,360
Speaker 2: you know the thing we touched. We still had to

1486
01:34:01,479 --> 01:34:04,479
Speaker 2: mind us touch, but we were getting a little burned

1487
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:10,640
Speaker 2: out and it took rock and roll fantasy to rejuvenate us.

1488
01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:16,160
Speaker 2: Paul once again came up gold with rock andron fantasy

1489
01:34:16,760 --> 01:34:20,719
Speaker 2: and Destination Angels was a pretty damn good album.

1490
01:34:21,080 --> 01:34:26,720
Speaker 1: So Desolation Angels is an incredible record. They they hit

1491
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:30,320
Speaker 1: the ship. Ratio on that album is beyond belief. It's

1492
01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:33,320
Speaker 1: you know, been forgot, It's got rock and roll fantasy,

1493
01:34:33,360 --> 01:34:35,840
Speaker 1: and it's got Atlanta. The best song on the album,

1494
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:39,720
Speaker 1: I don't get Lonely for Your Love is just incredible,

1495
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:48,280
Speaker 1: and then Evil Wind and Rhythm. I mean that album love. Yeah,

1496
01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:54,679
Speaker 1: it's labeled as bad Company goes Synth, but that's just strong,

1497
01:34:54,880 --> 01:34:57,800
Speaker 1: if not stronger in its own way than Straight Shooter.

1498
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:00,080
Speaker 1: It was a surprise. I mean I was shocked how

1499
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:02,920
Speaker 1: good it was. And I did not buy it, Unlike

1500
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:06,240
Speaker 1: the previous three albums, I bought exactly when they came out.

1501
01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:08,760
Speaker 1: I waited a little while before I bought that one.

1502
01:35:09,479 --> 01:35:14,800
Speaker 1: But there were synthesizers on that album. How did those?

1503
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:17,160
Speaker 1: It was out an argument. Everybody said, oh, this is

1504
01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:18,640
Speaker 1: the sound, We're going to go for it.

1505
01:35:19,280 --> 01:35:24,840
Speaker 3: No, I've always had a love affair with strings, and

1506
01:35:26,280 --> 01:35:28,479
Speaker 3: back on Straight Shooter, you know, I had a couple

1507
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:30,800
Speaker 3: of songs, one of which was Weep No More.

1508
01:35:30,680 --> 01:35:33,720
Speaker 2: And we used a full orchestra. So fast forward to

1509
01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:41,240
Speaker 2: to rock and roll Fantasy, I mean Desinats and Angels.

1510
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:45,200
Speaker 2: I think we used since because we just maybe got

1511
01:35:45,240 --> 01:35:47,840
Speaker 2: a little bit bored with the regular lineup. We just

1512
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:50,599
Speaker 2: wanted a little bit of a different taste of something

1513
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:54,559
Speaker 2: here and there. And Mick and Paul have always been

1514
01:35:54,800 --> 01:35:58,600
Speaker 2: decent keyboard players, so we just, you know, just for

1515
01:35:58,720 --> 01:36:00,680
Speaker 2: the shaer fun of it, of it to do it.

1516
01:36:02,280 --> 01:36:06,600
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a huge success. Next album comes out Rough Diamonds.

1517
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:11,240
Speaker 1: There is a hit electrically in but the original band

1518
01:36:11,320 --> 01:36:13,479
Speaker 1: fall support. So what goes on there?

1519
01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:16,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, we were pretty much at the end

1520
01:36:16,439 --> 01:36:19,680
Speaker 2: of our row. And I'm glad you mentioned electric Land

1521
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:23,479
Speaker 2: because it's one of Baul's great great songs. But we

1522
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:27,280
Speaker 2: were pretty much burned out by then, and we had

1523
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:34,280
Speaker 2: a fist fight. And when unless you're skinnered some Southern band,

1524
01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:37,320
Speaker 2: when an English band has a fist fight, that's pretty

1525
01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:41,439
Speaker 2: much the end of it. And we did and it

1526
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:44,040
Speaker 2: all fell apart. We were all doing way too much,

1527
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:47,280
Speaker 2: too many drugs. We were kind of screwed up. I

1528
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:52,320
Speaker 2: was drinking, and what happened. You had this one two

1529
01:36:52,479 --> 01:36:57,759
Speaker 2: punch of Lenon being shot and Bonzo dying and Zeppelin

1530
01:36:57,840 --> 01:37:01,639
Speaker 2: breaking up. Peter Grant goes the seclusion. This whole house

1531
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:08,760
Speaker 2: of cards just implodes and collapses, and you know, we

1532
01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:19,320
Speaker 2: invoked a managerial clause. Robert and Jimmy from Zepp backed

1533
01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:23,080
Speaker 2: out from away from Peter. Grant all did the same thing,

1534
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:27,920
Speaker 2: and we we kind of recused ourselves from Peter. We

1535
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:30,120
Speaker 2: wanted him to get better. We wanted us all to

1536
01:37:30,160 --> 01:37:32,960
Speaker 2: get better. Zeppelin had broken up and it was a

1537
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:38,280
Speaker 2: horrible time. Nineteen eighty was a ghastly time and that

1538
01:37:38,439 --> 01:37:39,320
Speaker 2: was it for us. Really.

1539
01:37:40,640 --> 01:37:47,840
Speaker 1: Okay, ultimately you reconstitute the band. Bud Prager is the

1540
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:53,160
Speaker 1: mean Okay, Brian Howe who comes first? Bud or Brian.

1541
01:37:56,200 --> 01:38:01,000
Speaker 2: Kind of one too? Yeah, yeah, Well, Bud managed and

1542
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:04,280
Speaker 2: Lou Graham and Mick Jones weren't getting on and Mick

1543
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:07,679
Speaker 2: wanted to groom this guy called Brian ow to take

1544
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:11,920
Speaker 2: over from Lou. Well, they kind of made up and Paul,

1545
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:16,439
Speaker 2: you know, Paul went into the Sunset and I became

1546
01:38:16,560 --> 01:38:18,559
Speaker 2: very friendly with Mick because he became a good friend

1547
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:20,360
Speaker 2: of mine. And I said, yeah, we're looking for around,

1548
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:23,240
Speaker 2: maybe someone to replace Paul, And he said, I got

1549
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:26,800
Speaker 2: this great guy well, and he introduced me to Brian,

1550
01:38:27,040 --> 01:38:30,160
Speaker 2: and Brian at the time was decent. He wasn't the

1551
01:38:30,240 --> 01:38:33,559
Speaker 2: same style of singer, but he was eager, he was hungry,

1552
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:35,760
Speaker 2: he wanted to work. He was a good looking guy,

1553
01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:40,280
Speaker 2: you know, he was. Yeah, So we took him on

1554
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:45,920
Speaker 2: board and it just nah, it didn't work. And to

1555
01:38:46,040 --> 01:38:49,000
Speaker 2: this day, I don't mind saying that my time of life.

1556
01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:52,360
Speaker 2: It was a mistake. We made some good music, and

1557
01:38:52,479 --> 01:38:55,559
Speaker 2: oddly enough, when Brian passed away a couple of years ago,

1558
01:38:56,240 --> 01:38:59,920
Speaker 2: a lot of people were introduced to Bad Company when

1559
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:03,120
Speaker 2: Brian was a singer. You have to remember we've been

1560
01:39:03,160 --> 01:39:06,479
Speaker 2: around fifty years and a lot of people who now

1561
01:39:06,520 --> 01:39:10,720
Speaker 2: are in their forties late thirties hadn't heard of the

1562
01:39:10,760 --> 01:39:14,519
Speaker 2: original Bad Company with Paul Rodgers. So for them it

1563
01:39:14,680 --> 01:39:20,080
Speaker 2: was here comes Trouble, Holy Water. That was bad Company

1564
01:39:20,160 --> 01:39:23,560
Speaker 2: for them. And he got a lot of accolades and

1565
01:39:24,240 --> 01:39:26,720
Speaker 2: tributes to Brian when he passed away, So I'm not

1566
01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:28,519
Speaker 2: going to speak ill of him, you know, I don't

1567
01:39:28,520 --> 01:39:32,320
Speaker 2: speak ill of the dead. We didn't get on and

1568
01:39:33,200 --> 01:39:36,599
Speaker 2: even though we kept the name alive, we did quite

1569
01:39:36,600 --> 01:39:39,759
Speaker 2: a few tours, We did quite a few albums with Brian.

1570
01:39:40,640 --> 01:39:42,960
Speaker 2: It just wasn't the Bad Company that I grew up

1571
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:46,320
Speaker 2: with and I came to know and love and hate

1572
01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:49,760
Speaker 2: at the same time. Does that make sense? But it

1573
01:39:49,880 --> 01:39:52,599
Speaker 2: wasn't Bad Company, nah. It was a different Bad Company,

1574
01:39:52,720 --> 01:39:54,519
Speaker 2: but not the one with Paul Rodgers.

1575
01:39:54,800 --> 01:39:59,000
Speaker 1: So what was it like having Bud priegerism minature as

1576
01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:00,640
Speaker 1: opposed to Peter Grant.

1577
01:40:02,040 --> 01:40:06,280
Speaker 2: Well, I like Bud. You know the I got to

1578
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:10,280
Speaker 2: be scared of Peter Grant, and you can't be scared

1579
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:13,559
Speaker 2: of someone who looks after you, I mean really scared.

1580
01:40:14,880 --> 01:40:18,120
Speaker 2: Bud was a straight up and up, nice Jewish guy.

1581
01:40:19,640 --> 01:40:22,599
Speaker 2: I don't know if he had You know, I won't

1582
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:24,479
Speaker 2: speak ill of him because he was always very good

1583
01:40:24,520 --> 01:40:31,200
Speaker 2: to me. He'd steered foreigner to want a great success.

1584
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:34,000
Speaker 2: He was always ready, he was always on the phone.

1585
01:40:34,240 --> 01:40:36,040
Speaker 2: I mean, you call Peter up, you'd have to wait

1586
01:40:36,160 --> 01:40:39,760
Speaker 2: days to get a response. So I liked I like

1587
01:40:39,920 --> 01:40:44,040
Speaker 2: Bud Prager. We played golf together. He was a stand

1588
01:40:44,160 --> 01:40:46,000
Speaker 2: up guy, and I was sorry to hear when he

1589
01:40:46,080 --> 01:40:51,120
Speaker 2: passed away. You play golfer, I played golf. I'm crazy

1590
01:40:51,160 --> 01:40:51,479
Speaker 2: about it.

1591
01:40:51,600 --> 01:40:53,000
Speaker 1: How did you become a golfer?

1592
01:40:54,479 --> 01:40:57,000
Speaker 2: Well, when I sobered up, I would wake up at

1593
01:40:57,040 --> 01:40:59,720
Speaker 2: eight o'clock in the morning, bob without a hangover, and

1594
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:01,720
Speaker 2: I got to wait twelve hours before I go to

1595
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:04,519
Speaker 2: the bloody concert. So I took up gold.

1596
01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:06,200
Speaker 1: How good a golfer are you?

1597
01:41:07,439 --> 01:41:08,920
Speaker 2: I'm not very good, but I love it.

1598
01:41:09,600 --> 01:41:10,680
Speaker 1: How often you play? Now?

1599
01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:14,880
Speaker 2: Not often? I haven't played this year. I just watched

1600
01:41:14,920 --> 01:41:17,600
Speaker 2: it on TV. I had you know the COVID and

1601
01:41:17,680 --> 01:41:19,920
Speaker 2: I had something wrong with my knee and I just

1602
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:22,080
Speaker 2: never got out. And you've got to remember up here

1603
01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:25,600
Speaker 2: in the Northeast, the season is only you know, like

1604
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:28,360
Speaker 2: April through October and then it was too cold.

1605
01:41:29,280 --> 01:41:33,520
Speaker 1: Okay, first record with Brian, you work with Keith Olson's

1606
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:36,800
Speaker 1: got a lot of history, especially with Fleetwood. Back then

1607
01:41:36,880 --> 01:41:40,880
Speaker 1: you worked with Terry Thomas. It's interesting because he had

1608
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:44,799
Speaker 1: a band called Charlie, had a couple of very good records,

1609
01:41:44,920 --> 01:41:47,559
Speaker 1: never broke through. Can you tell us anything about Terry?

1610
01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:51,880
Speaker 2: Well, what you don't know is that he also had

1611
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:55,720
Speaker 2: a band called Maten's Magic Mixture, and that was one

1612
01:41:55,720 --> 01:41:58,880
Speaker 2: of the bands that I auditioned with before Free came along,

1613
01:41:59,400 --> 01:42:04,240
Speaker 2: like thirty years prior. And when when I when when

1614
01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:07,240
Speaker 2: Bud told me about this guy called Terry Thomas, I said,

1615
01:42:07,280 --> 01:42:09,880
Speaker 2: don't tell me he's a guitar player. He said, yeah,

1616
01:42:10,040 --> 01:42:13,840
Speaker 2: I said, I know him. My god. Terry was very good,

1617
01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:18,479
Speaker 2: very professional, and once we got gotten over the fact

1618
01:42:18,520 --> 01:42:22,479
Speaker 2: that we'd actually played together all those years before, we

1619
01:42:23,479 --> 01:42:26,160
Speaker 2: him and Brian kind of took over the writing duties

1620
01:42:26,920 --> 01:42:29,920
Speaker 2: and he was good. I mean, he knew his way

1621
01:42:29,960 --> 01:42:33,240
Speaker 2: around a console, he knew what would work and what

1622
01:42:33,360 --> 01:42:36,360
Speaker 2: didn't work. He was, you know, he didn't drink or

1623
01:42:36,439 --> 01:42:38,479
Speaker 2: drug much yet a little drink now and again, la

1624
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:42,880
Speaker 2: la lah. But he was good for the band. But

1625
01:42:43,120 --> 01:42:46,679
Speaker 2: he formed this alliance with Brian, and the whole writing

1626
01:42:46,920 --> 01:42:49,760
Speaker 2: got taken away pretty much from Mick. And I've got

1627
01:42:49,840 --> 01:42:52,960
Speaker 2: to be honest, Mick, Mick and me were We were

1628
01:42:53,160 --> 01:42:55,760
Speaker 2: still drinking a lot, and Mick was not the writer

1629
01:42:55,960 --> 01:43:00,439
Speaker 2: that he used to be. He missed Paul terribly. He

1630
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:04,360
Speaker 2: needed someone to write with, and of course Paul wasn't around,

1631
01:43:05,120 --> 01:43:10,120
Speaker 2: So the writing duties got taken away from from Mick,

1632
01:43:11,840 --> 01:43:14,639
Speaker 2: and we made you know, we made some good albums

1633
01:43:14,720 --> 01:43:18,040
Speaker 2: with Terry. I mean, very good guitar guitarist in his

1634
01:43:18,160 --> 01:43:22,360
Speaker 2: own right. So I mean I don't really listen to those.

1635
01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:25,280
Speaker 2: I don't listen to our Bad Company albums anymore anyway,

1636
01:43:26,160 --> 01:43:30,679
Speaker 2: But I have to say take my hat off to Terry.

1637
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:33,439
Speaker 2: He did a good job with what he had and

1638
01:43:34,240 --> 01:43:36,800
Speaker 2: and I'll take my own hat off. I kept it

1639
01:43:36,880 --> 01:43:39,439
Speaker 2: together whenever I played I never played out of it.

1640
01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:43,439
Speaker 2: I never played stone. Only one time I ever did

1641
01:43:43,479 --> 01:43:47,000
Speaker 2: a line of coke, and that was in Detroit before

1642
01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:49,160
Speaker 2: I went on stage, the biggest mistake of my life.

1643
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:52,320
Speaker 2: But I kept it together and we made some good.

1644
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:55,040
Speaker 1: Albums and then why Robert Hard After that?

1645
01:43:56,120 --> 01:44:00,479
Speaker 2: Well, Robert, I don't know. We had a second guitarists

1646
01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:04,320
Speaker 2: called Dave Bucket Coldwell, who knew Robert Robert was in

1647
01:44:04,400 --> 01:44:06,960
Speaker 2: another band, and he said, you've got to hear we

1648
01:44:07,320 --> 01:44:10,120
Speaker 2: weren't getting on with Brian now. I didn't like your

1649
01:44:10,160 --> 01:44:12,720
Speaker 2: style of singing. It was getting too heavy metal and

1650
01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:16,360
Speaker 2: to Motley Crewe for us, you know, it was not

1651
01:44:16,560 --> 01:44:19,639
Speaker 2: our thing. And Dave said, I know this great guy.

1652
01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:21,599
Speaker 2: He sings just like Paul and he's a great guy.

1653
01:44:21,720 --> 01:44:25,000
Speaker 2: La la h. So whenever Brian would leave the rehearsal

1654
01:44:25,120 --> 01:44:28,560
Speaker 2: to go home, we'd call Robert and saying come on,

1655
01:44:28,720 --> 01:44:31,720
Speaker 2: get in here, and he come in and do rock

1656
01:44:31,800 --> 01:44:34,639
Speaker 2: steady and he'd been out in the car park waiting

1657
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:36,840
Speaker 2: for the call. So he do a couple of bad

1658
01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:39,640
Speaker 2: Company songs and we go ooh, this is more like it.

1659
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:43,599
Speaker 2: And Robert was great. I really liked Robert. I loved

1660
01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:47,160
Speaker 2: having him on board. But there's only so many personnel

1661
01:44:47,280 --> 01:44:51,720
Speaker 2: changes that a band can endure. And we did one

1662
01:44:51,960 --> 01:44:55,240
Speaker 2: one album, two albums with Robert and a couple of

1663
01:44:55,320 --> 01:44:58,479
Speaker 2: tours and it was good, but it just I was

1664
01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:01,880
Speaker 2: getting tired of it. It was you know, I wanted

1665
01:45:01,960 --> 01:45:05,120
Speaker 2: Paul back in the van, quite honestly, and he did it,

1666
01:45:05,200 --> 01:45:05,839
Speaker 2: came back.

1667
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:11,360
Speaker 1: Paul comes back, and then ultimately there's a concert in Florida.

1668
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:15,680
Speaker 1: The press said you had to play the maintain ownership

1669
01:45:15,760 --> 01:45:17,719
Speaker 1: of the name. Is that true?

1670
01:45:18,800 --> 01:45:22,200
Speaker 2: Well, we we would. Let me get this right. The

1671
01:45:22,320 --> 01:45:26,280
Speaker 2: record company wanted to release a compendium, a double album

1672
01:45:27,040 --> 01:45:32,360
Speaker 2: of uh Back Company's greatest hits, and there was a

1673
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:36,080
Speaker 2: time constraint which if we went over that time constraint,

1674
01:45:36,840 --> 01:45:39,559
Speaker 2: the the merchandise or.

1675
01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:44,200
Speaker 1: The the whatever you call it, mechanical.

1676
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 2: Not mechanical, the the registered trademark would expire. Oh yeah yeah,

1677
01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:55,200
Speaker 2: and people could could take could take the name. So yeah,

1678
01:45:55,920 --> 01:45:59,400
Speaker 2: there was a certain legal stipulation in there that we

1679
01:45:59,520 --> 01:46:02,920
Speaker 2: had to Anyway, it was an excuse for us to

1680
01:46:03,040 --> 01:46:05,960
Speaker 2: call Paul and say, hey, man, come on, it's been

1681
01:46:06,080 --> 01:46:09,719
Speaker 2: twelve years, and he came in. We had a rehearsal

1682
01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:12,640
Speaker 2: down in the country, and as soon as he plugged in,

1683
01:46:12,920 --> 01:46:16,519
Speaker 2: I think we did rock and off. Fancy. Wow. It

1684
01:46:16,640 --> 01:46:19,400
Speaker 2: was like slipping into a pair of old shoes again,

1685
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:23,120
Speaker 2: you know, comfortable shoes. It was just felt right and

1686
01:46:23,760 --> 01:46:26,519
Speaker 2: so we reunited and it was so good to have

1687
01:46:26,680 --> 01:46:29,920
Speaker 2: him back. There was still a little animosity. I don't

1688
01:46:29,960 --> 01:46:34,360
Speaker 2: blame him for taking on these other singers, but by

1689
01:46:34,439 --> 01:46:39,600
Speaker 2: the same token, you know, we felt justified because he

1690
01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:42,960
Speaker 2: just left. I mean there was no discussion. He just

1691
01:46:43,320 --> 01:46:45,519
Speaker 2: left and that was it. But we made up.

1692
01:46:45,960 --> 01:46:46,080
Speaker 3: Now.

1693
01:46:46,160 --> 01:46:50,040
Speaker 1: I saw the band with Howard Lease and Rich Robinson

1694
01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:53,519
Speaker 1: from the Black Crows. It was unbelievable. How did those

1695
01:46:53,560 --> 01:46:54,320
Speaker 1: two guys get in?

1696
01:46:54,560 --> 01:46:54,680
Speaker 3: Oh?

1697
01:46:54,840 --> 01:46:58,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, good players, good player. Yeah. I love Howard and

1698
01:46:58,479 --> 01:47:00,840
Speaker 2: Rich was very good, very good guitar player in his

1699
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:06,200
Speaker 2: own right. We needed Howard always wanted a second guitarists.

1700
01:47:06,400 --> 01:47:09,880
Speaker 2: You know, the original band was just Mick Boz, myself

1701
01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:13,960
Speaker 2: and Paul, but Howard just felt that his playing needed

1702
01:47:13,960 --> 01:47:16,599
Speaker 2: a little bit of beefing up. I don't know how

1703
01:47:16,720 --> 01:47:19,360
Speaker 2: Rich fitted in, but he was a southern gentleman. We

1704
01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:22,080
Speaker 2: liked him. He got on very well with him, and

1705
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:24,960
Speaker 2: he was I think they were having trouble with the

1706
01:47:25,040 --> 01:47:28,040
Speaker 2: Crows so he was out on a limb and he

1707
01:47:28,240 --> 01:47:31,960
Speaker 2: joined the band just for a tour. He was very good.

1708
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:33,559
Speaker 2: I liked him very much. Good player.

1709
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:38,800
Speaker 1: Okay, now Bad Company is playing and then Paul is

1710
01:47:38,960 --> 01:47:42,680
Speaker 1: playing with his own band. What was going on there?

1711
01:47:44,320 --> 01:47:46,160
Speaker 2: Well, he's always had this, you know, they had a

1712
01:47:46,240 --> 01:47:52,120
Speaker 2: solo career for a long long time now, and he

1713
01:47:52,280 --> 01:47:57,120
Speaker 2: managed to juggle the two. I know that we went.

1714
01:47:57,240 --> 01:47:59,280
Speaker 2: The last time Back Company played in Japan. It was

1715
01:47:59,320 --> 01:48:02,760
Speaker 2: originally going to be a Paul Rodgers' solo tour, but

1716
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:06,679
Speaker 2: quite honestly, I don't think the tickets were doing that well.

1717
01:48:07,479 --> 01:48:09,680
Speaker 2: So his manager at the time said, well, let's make

1718
01:48:09,680 --> 01:48:13,880
Speaker 2: it a Bad Company tour. So me and I was

1719
01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:17,920
Speaker 2: brought on and it became a Bad Company to him,

1720
01:48:18,040 --> 01:48:23,639
Speaker 2: it did really well. So you know, Paul has always

1721
01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:26,200
Speaker 2: had this solo career, and then we do a Bad Company.

1722
01:48:26,280 --> 01:48:30,800
Speaker 2: Then he go back out again as solo, and he's

1723
01:48:31,040 --> 01:48:33,639
Speaker 2: had a very very good career. Good for him.

1724
01:48:33,920 --> 01:48:36,639
Speaker 1: And at those times, would you be sitting at home saying,

1725
01:48:36,840 --> 01:48:39,679
Speaker 1: come on, Paul, let's go back out as far Bad Company?

1726
01:48:41,560 --> 01:48:43,760
Speaker 2: Well no, not really. I mean the one time I

1727
01:48:44,400 --> 01:48:46,599
Speaker 2: would have liked to have been involved, and I'll be honest,

1728
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:50,200
Speaker 2: he did a thing called the Free Spirit Tour in

1729
01:48:51,360 --> 01:48:55,360
Speaker 2: in England where he did all free songs and I

1730
01:48:55,439 --> 01:48:57,360
Speaker 2: would have I would have loved to have been on that,

1731
01:48:57,520 --> 01:49:02,200
Speaker 2: I have to say, But there it is. It's it

1732
01:49:02,320 --> 01:49:04,240
Speaker 2: didn't happen, and just get on with it.

1733
01:49:04,840 --> 01:49:05,920
Speaker 1: So where do you live now?

1734
01:49:07,240 --> 01:49:10,919
Speaker 2: I live. I divide my time between Manhattan and Montalk

1735
01:49:11,280 --> 01:49:11,960
Speaker 2: in Long Island.

1736
01:49:12,880 --> 01:49:16,240
Speaker 1: Why mon talk? Man Talk is the furthest out Robert? Yeah,

1737
01:49:16,600 --> 01:49:17,920
Speaker 1: Shelter Island after that?

1738
01:49:18,360 --> 01:49:22,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, that's why mon Talk. I don't know. It's

1739
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:25,720
Speaker 2: just far enough away from from the city. It's a

1740
01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:30,240
Speaker 2: three three hour drive, beautiful weather, well when it's not

1741
01:49:30,400 --> 01:49:33,040
Speaker 2: blowing a gale, and it's just lovely. It's a lovely

1742
01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:36,759
Speaker 2: golf course next door. And it's a nice, nice place,

1743
01:49:36,920 --> 01:49:40,160
Speaker 2: nice people, beautiful, clean air. I love it.

1744
01:49:40,960 --> 01:49:44,560
Speaker 1: And you're remarried, you talk about Maria, you're doing the

1745
01:49:45,680 --> 01:49:50,840
Speaker 1: musical and you're playing drums to records. Are you the

1746
01:49:50,960 --> 01:49:54,040
Speaker 1: type of guy whose networked, who's talking to all the

1747
01:49:54,240 --> 01:49:57,760
Speaker 1: people who you've ever played with run into or you're

1748
01:49:57,800 --> 01:50:00,760
Speaker 1: more of a homebody just with your wife. What's your

1749
01:50:00,840 --> 01:50:01,840
Speaker 1: life looking like now?

1750
01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:05,320
Speaker 2: I'm pretty goog garious. I mean, look, I'm a Leo.

1751
01:50:06,280 --> 01:50:08,880
Speaker 2: We don't like hiding our light under a bushel. And

1752
01:50:09,120 --> 01:50:12,000
Speaker 2: I'm not very good at the social media. I leave

1753
01:50:12,040 --> 01:50:14,600
Speaker 2: that to my wife. She's very good at that Instagram

1754
01:50:14,760 --> 01:50:19,439
Speaker 2: and Twitter or x or whatever it is now, and

1755
01:50:19,800 --> 01:50:22,679
Speaker 2: we have quite a good social life. I go into

1756
01:50:22,720 --> 01:50:26,000
Speaker 2: the city a lot, and you know, I see my kids,

1757
01:50:26,600 --> 01:50:31,640
Speaker 2: I go to little functions. So I'm not ready to

1758
01:50:31,720 --> 01:50:33,880
Speaker 2: become a hermit. I was never that sort of guy.

1759
01:50:34,120 --> 01:50:38,200
Speaker 2: I like other people, and I still love playing.

1760
01:50:39,040 --> 01:50:41,960
Speaker 1: Love playing well, Simon, I want to thank you so

1761
01:50:42,160 --> 01:50:44,559
Speaker 1: much for taking the time to talk to her audience.

1762
01:50:45,000 --> 01:50:47,160
Speaker 1: Great memories, great storyteller.

1763
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:51,720
Speaker 2: Well, an interview is only as good as the questions, Bob,

1764
01:50:51,800 --> 01:50:54,559
Speaker 2: and you've been a wonderful host. I have to say

1765
01:50:54,680 --> 01:50:56,960
Speaker 2: so thank you very much, and.

1766
01:50:57,120 --> 01:50:59,520
Speaker 1: Thank you for being so honest and forthcoming.

1767
01:51:00,080 --> 01:51:02,439
Speaker 2: All right, my friend, until the next time.

1768
01:51:03,040 --> 01:51:05,320
Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob lofstecks

1769
01:51:27,520 --> 01:51:27,560
Speaker 2: H