WEBVTT - Bums & Free Speech.  Bart Director Debora Allen talks to Armstrong & Getty

0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:02.960
<v Speaker 1>We'll talk about the homeless situation on the West Coast

0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:07.040
<v Speaker 1>a lot because well, it's because it's it's incredible. I

0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:11.520
<v Speaker 1>mean it's it's awful. It shocks the conscience and the nose,

0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:16.000
<v Speaker 1>scares people. It's I'm safe, it's disgusting. A lot of

0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:19.400
<v Speaker 1>us have had incredibly frightening situations like my family had.

0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:21.840
<v Speaker 1>It's you deal with it. Depending on where you live,

0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.840
<v Speaker 1>you deal with it every day. Every day I come

0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.920
<v Speaker 1>into work or walk out of a building pretty much. Um,

0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:28.639
<v Speaker 1>we got this text. My family and I live in

0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Monterey County, and as a twenty nine year old, I've

0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.479
<v Speaker 1>personally watched our town be ravaged by homelessness, illegals, gangs,

0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.280
<v Speaker 1>and overcrowding. That's what I said in the city council meeting.

0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:39.520
<v Speaker 1>I said, it didn't used to be this way twenty

0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.280
<v Speaker 1>years ago when I was here. Does anybody think this

0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:45.800
<v Speaker 1>is better? Does anybody like the direction it's going? Well,

0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.320
<v Speaker 1>then we got to do something different. Sometimes it's on

0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.440
<v Speaker 1>your way to work that you're beset by various characters,

0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.960
<v Speaker 1>and the question of panhandling on public transit is front

0:00:56.000 --> 0:01:00.400
<v Speaker 1>and center at the Bay Area Rapid Transit District. Deborah

0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:02.680
<v Speaker 1>Allen is a director Park District. Once she's been on

0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.360
<v Speaker 1>the Armstrong and Getty Show before, and she is trying

0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.240
<v Speaker 1>to rain in that sort of behavior. Debora joins us, Now,

0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:12.440
<v Speaker 1>how are you good morning? I am doing great. How

0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:14.880
<v Speaker 1>are you excellent? We're fine and dandy. We're glad you're

0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:17.960
<v Speaker 1>trying to get something done. Um. Now, listen, there are

0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.880
<v Speaker 1>varying ways to approach this around the country. I know

0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.800
<v Speaker 1>some places will let somebody strum a guitar and take

0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:30.040
<v Speaker 1>tips in in a designated area. Um, what's the problem?

0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.880
<v Speaker 1>What are you trying to get done? Well? So? Um?

0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:38.160
<v Speaker 1>That is true. Five Transits, the five of the ten

0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:43.800
<v Speaker 1>largest transit systems in the United States, actually have panhandling

0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:50.320
<v Speaker 1>ordinances that prohibit the panhandling inside of their system. Uh

0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.600
<v Speaker 1>for example, once you go through the fairgate. But they

0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:57.080
<v Speaker 1>do provide areas outside of the faregates and plazas and

0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:03.480
<v Speaker 1>designated areas for artistic oppression of various sorts. At BART, UM,

0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.560
<v Speaker 1>we don't have an ordinance. And for the last almost

0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:11.400
<v Speaker 1>three years I've been a BART director and people complain

0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.519
<v Speaker 1>a lot about a lot of things on BART, but

0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:18.320
<v Speaker 1>panhandling is one of you know those items that the

0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.320
<v Speaker 1>average writer going to work every morning and coming home

0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.399
<v Speaker 1>each night, they just are tired of it. So, which

0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:28.280
<v Speaker 1>is for folks not familiar. Are people allowed to hit

0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.160
<v Speaker 1>me up for money in the cars as I ride

0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:36.880
<v Speaker 1>to work at home? Yes, there is a penal code

0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:42.000
<v Speaker 1>section that prohibits aggressive panhandling, and so you can imagine

0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:46.079
<v Speaker 1>how hard it is to draw that line. But essentially,

0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.639
<v Speaker 1>even though that penal code section is in place, our

0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:55.079
<v Speaker 1>own Bart police department was handed a policy a couple

0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:59.440
<v Speaker 1>of years ago that further defined when they could actually

0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:03.560
<v Speaker 1>act up on a complaint of aggressive panhandling, and essentially

0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.079
<v Speaker 1>it's never. Well that that's pretty interesting. I mean when

0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:10.320
<v Speaker 1>San Francisco's own mayor, former Mayor Gavin Newsom, you know,

0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.960
<v Speaker 1>he had his big uh, he had his big push

0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:15.640
<v Speaker 1>for a while for not given change to beggars. But

0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.560
<v Speaker 1>it's allowed on the Bart. And part of the reasoning

0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.480
<v Speaker 1>was the there there's their programs out there for people

0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:24.680
<v Speaker 1>who are actually down and out for food and beds

0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:26.800
<v Speaker 1>and all that sort of stuff. These people are begging

0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.080
<v Speaker 1>for booze and drug addicts, so it's allowed for drugs.

0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.160
<v Speaker 1>So people on Bart are allowed to walk around and

0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:38.440
<v Speaker 1>gather money for more booze or drugs. That's what's going on, yeah,

0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:43.280
<v Speaker 1>or or actually, in a lot of cases it's it's

0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:47.080
<v Speaker 1>a different scenario. It's actually people who have learned to

0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.600
<v Speaker 1>do this every day, and it's it's sort of like

0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.360
<v Speaker 1>they're living, actually making an income on it. And professional

0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:57.080
<v Speaker 1>beggars yeah, fantastic. Yeah. And we have three main categories

0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:01.040
<v Speaker 1>of the most common people who ask for money. One

0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:05.360
<v Speaker 1>is the dancers, the performers, the singers. Um. They come

0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:10.480
<v Speaker 1>onto the trains regularly, almost every day and they do

0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.600
<v Speaker 1>a short performance in between stations, and then they go

0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:17.279
<v Speaker 1>around and pass the hat. The second one is there

0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.440
<v Speaker 1>there is a group of women who carry around uh,

0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:26.160
<v Speaker 1>infants to two year olds, and they're always sleeping. For

0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:31.000
<v Speaker 1>some reason. People notice that children are and they walk

0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.520
<v Speaker 1>to sign ask for money. Um. And then the third

0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:37.119
<v Speaker 1>one is we have what we call the tissue people

0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:41.440
<v Speaker 1>who walk around in hand each writer a little package

0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:44.240
<v Speaker 1>of tissues with a note that tells their sad story

0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.960
<v Speaker 1>and ask them for money. Well, that that's interesting that

0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.320
<v Speaker 1>you've broken it down to those three categories. I've always

0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.159
<v Speaker 1>kind of enjoyed the performers, but um, you know, I

0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.680
<v Speaker 1>suppose you start codifying this stuff and it gets difficult. Well,

0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.840
<v Speaker 1>has anybody isn't there a mandatory wellness check on all

0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:03.839
<v Speaker 1>the as kids to figure out what's going on there? Yeah,

0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.400
<v Speaker 1>it's within the transit system. Well there, I would think

0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:11.520
<v Speaker 1>there'd be enough men. Men. What do you call mandated reporter?

0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:13.680
<v Speaker 1>If you're a therapist of any kind of if you're

0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:15.640
<v Speaker 1>a doctor, if you're in any kind of law enforcement.

0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.440
<v Speaker 1>I think teachers, all kinds of people are mandated reporters.

0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:20.880
<v Speaker 1>I think there'd be wellness checks on these children just

0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:25.080
<v Speaker 1>walking around with always sleeping babies or toddlers. I wouldn't think.

0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:29.160
<v Speaker 1>But anyway, Yeah, there are actually local reporters that have

0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.599
<v Speaker 1>um done investigative work on this, and they've followed these

0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.679
<v Speaker 1>people out to their Mercedes and outies in the parking

0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:42.359
<v Speaker 1>lot um. And then even one reporter followed the people

0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:46.600
<v Speaker 1>who were doing this regularly out to their luxury condos

0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.440
<v Speaker 1>in the Bay Area, so they're not so you know,

0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.840
<v Speaker 1>this is sort of the conversation is around, well are

0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.359
<v Speaker 1>these poor people or are these just people who have

0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:57.720
<v Speaker 1>learned how to make a decent living off of this

0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.840
<v Speaker 1>type of activity. Listen, Devor Deborah Allen is a barrier,

0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.640
<v Speaker 1>rapid transit director from District one. You know, you probably

0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:11.400
<v Speaker 1>know this from us. But the the super compassionate crowd

0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.200
<v Speaker 1>lets their own desire to be enlightened blind them to

0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.279
<v Speaker 1>the simplest bits of logic and the idea that you

0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.000
<v Speaker 1>can abandon all order in the name of compassion have

0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.600
<v Speaker 1>a society is It's just well, it's it's unrealistic. And

0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:28.480
<v Speaker 1>the simple reality of it is, if I'm sitting and

0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:33.839
<v Speaker 1>particularly if I'm a woman or a slightly built guy

0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.920
<v Speaker 1>or whatever, I'm sitting there in my personal space, they're

0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:41.760
<v Speaker 1>looking at me and they're asking for money. With your kids,

0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:46.280
<v Speaker 1>all right, you have tremendous vulnerability. There is an element

0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:51.240
<v Speaker 1>of vulnerability there, and I better comply um that people

0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.760
<v Speaker 1>should not be subject to every single day as they

0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.720
<v Speaker 1>ride to and fro work. It's just not right. I

0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:58.720
<v Speaker 1>don't mind if you have got some guitar, strum and

0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:01.039
<v Speaker 1>zonn er, somebody can do their dance or whatever in

0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.479
<v Speaker 1>the station or what have you. I'm okay with that.

0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:05.680
<v Speaker 1>I've wanted to take my kids on bart I haven't

0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.479
<v Speaker 1>for these very reasons. How likely would I encounter some

0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:10.760
<v Speaker 1>of these situations you just described If I ride Bart

0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:15.239
<v Speaker 1>with my kids. If you ride on the weekends, very likely.

0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:18.440
<v Speaker 1>If you ride in the afternoons in the core between

0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.840
<v Speaker 1>San Francisco and um, you know they out of parts

0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.840
<v Speaker 1>of Oakland, very likely. They tend to not do it

0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.480
<v Speaker 1>on the really super crowded trains, uh, during the commute

0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.760
<v Speaker 1>hours as much in the in the heaviest part of

0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.680
<v Speaker 1>the community. Yeah, there's no room for my cello. Yeah,

0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:39.760
<v Speaker 1>they're packed in there, you know, and there's really not

0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.280
<v Speaker 1>much room to jump to move. All right, Well, Devorah,

0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:46.320
<v Speaker 1>keep fighting the fight for decent, hardworking, tax paying people

0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.880
<v Speaker 1>who just don't want to be bothered by professional beggars.

0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.680
<v Speaker 1>We're with you. Thanks for the time. Well thanks, I

0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.160
<v Speaker 1>hope that if any of that your listeners are from

0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.640
<v Speaker 1>the Bay Area. There. This is coming to our board

0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.120
<v Speaker 1>meeting at nine am on the day. If you can

0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:06.040
<v Speaker 1>be there, be there. It makes a difference. Do go there. Yeah,

0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.200
<v Speaker 1>Bart dot gov. All right, Debra Allen, thanks a million.

0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:10.640
<v Speaker 1>Good to talk to you and to be a b

0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:15.040
<v Speaker 1>a RT dot gov. So Gavin at least his theory

0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:16.720
<v Speaker 1>back in the day. I don't know what the current stances,

0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.640
<v Speaker 1>but when switch away the wind blows. When he was

0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:21.960
<v Speaker 1>mayor of San Francisco. He said, look, this is how

0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.840
<v Speaker 1>many gazillion dollars we're spending on beds and food and

0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:29.800
<v Speaker 1>water and medical care. So don't give money to beggars.

0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.640
<v Speaker 1>So her categories of I don't know if they're poor

0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.240
<v Speaker 1>or just professional beggars, doesn't matter. There's money for them

0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.520
<v Speaker 1>somewhere else. They don't need to get it there. There's

0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:44.559
<v Speaker 1>no excuse for allowing it, right, they're just beggars. Hey, yeah, yeah,

0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I live in Crazy Hill without going

0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.640
<v Speaker 1>crazy myself. How does the society end up like this

0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:52.680
<v Speaker 1>and put up putting up with this? I'd like my

0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:54.680
<v Speaker 1>kids to ride the bart and get the cool experience

0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:56.760
<v Speaker 1>of you know, mass transit and just the views and

0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.439
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of fun, but not not with that crowd

0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:01.400
<v Speaker 1>loves no freaking way