1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: We'll talk about the homeless situation on the West Coast 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: a lot because well, it's because it's it's incredible. I 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: mean it's it's awful. It shocks the conscience and the nose, 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: scares people. It's I'm safe, it's disgusting. A lot of 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: us have had incredibly frightening situations like my family had. 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: It's you deal with it. Depending on where you live, 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: you deal with it every day. Every day I come 8 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: into work or walk out of a building pretty much. Um, 9 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: we got this text. My family and I live in 10 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: Monterey County, and as a twenty nine year old, I've 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: personally watched our town be ravaged by homelessness, illegals, gangs, 12 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: and overcrowding. That's what I said in the city council meeting. 13 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: I said, it didn't used to be this way twenty 14 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: years ago when I was here. Does anybody think this 15 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: is better? Does anybody like the direction it's going? Well, 16 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: then we got to do something different. Sometimes it's on 17 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: your way to work that you're beset by various characters, 18 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: and the question of panhandling on public transit is front 19 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: and center at the Bay Area Rapid Transit District. Deborah 20 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: Allen is a director Park District. Once she's been on 21 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: the Armstrong and Getty Show before, and she is trying 22 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: to rain in that sort of behavior. Debora joins us, Now, 23 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: how are you good morning? I am doing great. How 24 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: are you excellent? We're fine and dandy. We're glad you're 25 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: trying to get something done. Um. Now, listen, there are 26 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: varying ways to approach this around the country. I know 27 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: some places will let somebody strum a guitar and take 28 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: tips in in a designated area. Um, what's the problem? 29 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: What are you trying to get done? Well? So? Um? 30 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: That is true. Five Transits, the five of the ten 31 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: largest transit systems in the United States, actually have panhandling 32 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: ordinances that prohibit the panhandling inside of their system. Uh 33 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: for example, once you go through the fairgate. But they 34 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: do provide areas outside of the faregates and plazas and 35 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: designated areas for artistic oppression of various sorts. At BART, UM, 36 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: we don't have an ordinance. And for the last almost 37 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: three years I've been a BART director and people complain 38 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: a lot about a lot of things on BART, but 39 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: panhandling is one of you know those items that the 40 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: average writer going to work every morning and coming home 41 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 1: each night, they just are tired of it. So, which 42 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: is for folks not familiar. Are people allowed to hit 43 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: me up for money in the cars as I ride 44 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: to work at home? Yes, there is a penal code 45 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: section that prohibits aggressive panhandling, and so you can imagine 46 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: how hard it is to draw that line. But essentially, 47 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: even though that penal code section is in place, our 48 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 1: own Bart police department was handed a policy a couple 49 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: of years ago that further defined when they could actually 50 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: act up on a complaint of aggressive panhandling, and essentially 51 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: it's never. Well that that's pretty interesting. I mean when 52 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: San Francisco's own mayor, former Mayor Gavin Newsom, you know, 53 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: he had his big uh, he had his big push 54 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: for a while for not given change to beggars. But 55 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: it's allowed on the Bart. And part of the reasoning 56 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: was the there there's their programs out there for people 57 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: who are actually down and out for food and beds 58 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff. These people are begging 59 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: for booze and drug addicts, so it's allowed for drugs. 60 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: So people on Bart are allowed to walk around and 61 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: gather money for more booze or drugs. That's what's going on, yeah, 62 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: or or actually, in a lot of cases it's it's 63 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: a different scenario. It's actually people who have learned to 64 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: do this every day, and it's it's sort of like 65 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: they're living, actually making an income on it. And professional 66 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: beggars yeah, fantastic. Yeah. And we have three main categories 67 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: of the most common people who ask for money. One 68 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: is the dancers, the performers, the singers. Um. They come 69 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: onto the trains regularly, almost every day and they do 70 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: a short performance in between stations, and then they go 71 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: around and pass the hat. The second one is there 72 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: there is a group of women who carry around uh, 73 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: infants to two year olds, and they're always sleeping. For 74 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: some reason. People notice that children are and they walk 75 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: to sign ask for money. Um. And then the third 76 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,119 Speaker 1: one is we have what we call the tissue people 77 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: who walk around in hand each writer a little package 78 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: of tissues with a note that tells their sad story 79 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: and ask them for money. Well, that that's interesting that 80 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: you've broken it down to those three categories. I've always 81 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: kind of enjoyed the performers, but um, you know, I 82 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: suppose you start codifying this stuff and it gets difficult. Well, 83 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: has anybody isn't there a mandatory wellness check on all 84 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: the as kids to figure out what's going on there? Yeah, 85 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: it's within the transit system. Well there, I would think 86 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: there'd be enough men. Men. What do you call mandated reporter? 87 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: If you're a therapist of any kind of if you're 88 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: a doctor, if you're in any kind of law enforcement. 89 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: I think teachers, all kinds of people are mandated reporters. 90 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: I think there'd be wellness checks on these children just 91 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: walking around with always sleeping babies or toddlers. I wouldn't think. 92 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: But anyway, Yeah, there are actually local reporters that have 93 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: um done investigative work on this, and they've followed these 94 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,679 Speaker 1: people out to their Mercedes and outies in the parking 95 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: lot um. And then even one reporter followed the people 96 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: who were doing this regularly out to their luxury condos 97 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: in the Bay Area, so they're not so you know, 98 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: this is sort of the conversation is around, well are 99 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: these poor people or are these just people who have 100 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: learned how to make a decent living off of this 101 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: type of activity. Listen, Devor Deborah Allen is a barrier, 102 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: rapid transit director from District one. You know, you probably 103 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: know this from us. But the the super compassionate crowd 104 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: lets their own desire to be enlightened blind them to 105 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: the simplest bits of logic and the idea that you 106 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: can abandon all order in the name of compassion have 107 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: a society is It's just well, it's it's unrealistic. And 108 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: the simple reality of it is, if I'm sitting and 109 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: particularly if I'm a woman or a slightly built guy 110 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: or whatever, I'm sitting there in my personal space, they're 111 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: looking at me and they're asking for money. With your kids, 112 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: all right, you have tremendous vulnerability. There is an element 113 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: of vulnerability there, and I better comply um that people 114 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: should not be subject to every single day as they 115 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: ride to and fro work. It's just not right. I 116 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: don't mind if you have got some guitar, strum and 117 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: zonn er, somebody can do their dance or whatever in 118 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: the station or what have you. I'm okay with that. 119 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: I've wanted to take my kids on bart I haven't 120 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: for these very reasons. How likely would I encounter some 121 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: of these situations you just described If I ride Bart 122 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:15,239 Speaker 1: with my kids. If you ride on the weekends, very likely. 123 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: If you ride in the afternoons in the core between 124 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: San Francisco and um, you know they out of parts 125 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: of Oakland, very likely. They tend to not do it 126 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: on the really super crowded trains, uh, during the commute 127 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: hours as much in the in the heaviest part of 128 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: the community. Yeah, there's no room for my cello. Yeah, 129 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: they're packed in there, you know, and there's really not 130 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: much room to jump to move. All right, Well, Devorah, 131 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: keep fighting the fight for decent, hardworking, tax paying people 132 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: who just don't want to be bothered by professional beggars. 133 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: We're with you. Thanks for the time. Well thanks, I 134 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: hope that if any of that your listeners are from 135 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: the Bay Area. There. This is coming to our board 136 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: meeting at nine am on the day. If you can 137 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: be there, be there. It makes a difference. Do go there. Yeah, 138 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: Bart dot gov. All right, Debra Allen, thanks a million. 139 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: Good to talk to you and to be a b 140 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: a RT dot gov. So Gavin at least his theory 141 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: back in the day. I don't know what the current stances, 142 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: but when switch away the wind blows. When he was 143 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: mayor of San Francisco. He said, look, this is how 144 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: many gazillion dollars we're spending on beds and food and 145 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: water and medical care. So don't give money to beggars. 146 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: So her categories of I don't know if they're poor 147 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: or just professional beggars, doesn't matter. There's money for them 148 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: somewhere else. They don't need to get it there. There's 149 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: no excuse for allowing it, right, they're just beggars. Hey, yeah, yeah, 150 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. I live in Crazy Hill without going 151 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: crazy myself. How does the society end up like this 152 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: and put up putting up with this? I'd like my 153 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: kids to ride the bart and get the cool experience 154 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: of you know, mass transit and just the views and 155 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: it's kind of fun, but not not with that crowd 156 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: loves no freaking way