WEBVTT - How ICE Kidnapped A Farmworker Union Organizer 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:04.920 Call Zone Media. 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:09.440 Welcome to ikidapp Here Podcasts, where here is the rapidly 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.520 encroaching rise of fascism. My name is Mia Wong, and 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.680 one of the major vectors of fascism that we have 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:19.520 been covering on this show has been the increase in 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.160 just effectively straight up black baggings by ICE and Immigration's 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:29.280 enforcement in general. We have spent a good amount of 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:31.920 time covering a bunch of different angles of this, but 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.600 there is another incredibly distressing angle that we have not 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:39.040 covered as much yet, which is their targeting of labor organizers. 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:41.680 And with me to talk about that is Mark Medina 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:45.120 from Portland Jobs with Justice and the Coalition of Independent Unions. 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:48.120 And yeah, Mark, welcome to the show. 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:49.959 Hi, thanks for having me. 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:52.879 Yeah, I'm glad to have you on. So one of 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.480 the most pressing sort of black baggings that's happened fairly 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:01.000 recently is ICE's kidnapping of a freight Wharezy for Reno 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:04.680 otherwise known as Lailo. Can you tell us about sort 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.720 of his work and the projects that he's been doing 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:09.679 and Famulus you need us Justicia. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:15.880 Yeah, So it's been a very disheartening and scary couple 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.960 of weeks since it's happened, because this opens up a 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.360 new path for the state to go after organizers, to 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.600 go after workers and the most underprivileged in our society 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.480 in a way that I suppose we all expected. But 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:32.639 now that we see it, now that we see it happening, 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:34.640 now that we see it happening to people that we 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:39.000 know in our community, it's becoming a parent. There is 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:42.120 no turning back from the idea that we have to 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.880 be able to take this on head first. We as activists, 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.640 as organizers, have to look at this and then see 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.160 it as an actual thing in our day to day 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.600 that we have to combat and incorporate into our organizing. 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:54.960 So maybe it might be a little helpful to start 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.400 off with a little bit of a backstory on So 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.440 I mean I need us by Lassa. Yeah, So the 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.840 Union has its origins going back to twenty thirteen. The 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:06.680 area in which they organize, the Bellingham or the Washington 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:10.960 Walkins scadged areas, has the very particular type of immigrant 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:16.560 community there. Lelo himself is of Meteco background. There's a 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:20.720 lot of indigenous Mexican populations in the region. It's also 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:22.959 one that has long routes a lot of these people 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:25.359 go back generations, have been here for quite some time. 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.360 This area also happens to be a very particularly with 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:34.919 the non Hispanic population, particularly the white population, a very conservative, 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.760 particularly conservative for the area. It's one of the very 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.120 few areas of Northwest that Donald Trump came to visit. 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.760 It's an area that has had repeated attacks on then 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:48.840 imbric community. And so it's in this context that workers 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:53.360 are organizing in twenty thirteen for this first independent union. 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.200 And two it's important to mention the independent part of it. 0:02:57.600 --> 0:02:58.200 A lot of the. 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.560 Organizers from the start of this of the union came 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.399 from a tradition of the United farm Workers in California. 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.320 They some of them worked with Seef Javis in the 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:13.400 heyday of the United farm Workers. And in the years 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.680 and decades since then, since the Delana voidcotts and other things, 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.160 there's been a growing rift of what the next steps 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.560 should be. And I think that for a lot of 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.360 farm workers, because they don't organize under the general labor 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:29.120 law that we have for most workers, there is a 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:33.280 sort of patchwork system for how farm working organizing happens 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.120 in the United States that's dependent upon different states and legislatures, 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:39.720 and for the most part, with the exception of only 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:42.760 two states, farm workers don't have the same kind of 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:47.600 protections that regular workers generally in the society have for 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:53.440 union recognition, for collective bargaining. Only Washington and New York 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.880 at the moment, I believe have the laws that allow 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.440 for elections for farm worker unions, and there is a 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.440 very particular reasons for that being the case. Farm workers 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.360 were excluded from the Wagner Act for having general labor 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:09.840 rights in the nineteen thirty because precisely it was seen. 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:11.120 As immigrant labor. 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:13.839 Yeah, and immigrants were not seen as meriting the same 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.600 rights as white Americans in the same way the domestic 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.080 workers were removed because I was seen at the time 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:19.839 as black labor. 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.480 So it has its roots and racism. 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.120 And yeah, and that's something that you know, like you 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:27.000 can tie that exclusion, like there's a straight line between 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.119 that and Japanese and tournaments, which also to a large extent, 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:34.640 is about land seizure and this sort of like fusion 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:38.520 of racism, specifically racism in the farming sector with the 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:40.680 tax and labor rights and with this desire to just 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.520 sort of seize literally the lands and labor from non 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:44.040 white people. 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:44.840 Yeah. 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:46.920 Yeah, so it's a long and bleak history. 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.600 No, absolutely, and I'm sure your audience is well aware 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:52.159 of a lot of these subject matter. It is a 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:56.839 bleak history, and it wasn't until groups like the United 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.680 farm Workers in the sixties and the seventies, I think, 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.960 began to create the possibility for something new for the 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:08.200 Hispanic community. It was United farm Workers that built not 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.080 just a lot of solidarity with other immigrant groups in 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.840 the California area, but they also built a sense of 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:19.520 pride and identity and belonging for a lot of communities. 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.240 I grew up in Boro Heights, East Los Angeles, says 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.600 such Travis and the Knight farm worker murals are everywhere. 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:26.359 You know. Me and my friends would often joke as 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.960 seb Jravis is like the Patron Saints. It's Los Angeles, 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:30.279 even though it's nowhere near Delano. 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:31.919 And there's a reason for that. 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.120 I think that a lot of us looked up to 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.000 the United farm Workers, We looked up to the farm 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:39.680 worker Union movement, and we saw in them our heroes, 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:40.919 our modern day heroes. 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:42.240 We saw them. 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.719 We saw people who said be proud to be brown. 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.480 You know, there's a courage that comes from that history. 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.480 The union movement that then sprung up in twenty thirteen 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.839 in the Bellingham, Northern Washington area was coming out of 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:58.279 that milieu. They understood that background, they understood that history, 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.200 but they also understood that there was very little organizing 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:03.080 in the region. There was a lot of fear in 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.520 the region. It's very difficult to organize farm workers to 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.159 have access to a lot of these areas. You have 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.679 to cross just private property for quite some time before 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.440 you reach the first farm workers, and it becomes very, 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:17.200 very difficult to have organizing happen. 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:18.839 And it's intentional that way. 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.640 The rise in farm worker unions that happened in the 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.440 sixties and seventies had a massive plummet by the time 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.920 the beginning in the nineteen two thousands, and so these 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.320 workers had heard these stories, had heard by this legacy, 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:37.000 but had been essentially delivered with increasing frustration, racist behavior 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:42.320 by bosses, lower and lower pay, and the use of 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:47.080 certain types of immigrants to try to scab their jobs. 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:49.680 It be the capitalist class using one type of worker 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.200 against another type of worker, picking them against each other. 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.520 It's in this context in twenty thirteen that this union 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.040 starts to form, they go public at that time period, 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:03.120 they call for recognition and they started taking action directly, 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:08.320 and they organized this years and years long boycott campaign 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:12.080 to gain recognition, to get the employer to start bargaining. 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.200 And after years and years of this, I court battles 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.240 and the employer trying to lay everyone off and hire 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.520 certain types of newer immigrants coming in to replace all 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.119 of them, putting one worker against another, all these types 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:28.640 of maneuvers. By twenty seventeen, these workers win a contract, 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.800 and the philosophy of the union since then has been 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.040 not just to grow this union, but also for them 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:35.560 to be able to stand on their own two feet. 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.280 Their idea is that they are very proud of their 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.920 independent nature of that union. They're not part of, you know, 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.040 the AFL CIO, they're not part of the UNICE farm workers, 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:46.480 They're not part of any other organization. 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:47.160 You know. 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.120 When I spoke to some of their leaders last year, 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.400 one of the things that came to mind was they 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.120 brought up a quote from Eugene Debts, the notion of 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:56.160 like if we were to lead you into the promised land, 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:58.560 someone else would just lead out. And the notion of 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:00.520 their union is we have to be able to stand 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:02.800 on our two feet. We can't rely on anyone else 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.200 because if we, if they promises things today tomorrow, they'll 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.640 hold something over us. And so the notion that farm 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:12.280 workers lead this movement and leave this union is an 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.800 incredibly powerful statement of what working class people can do. 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:19.840 The kinds of workers that everyone else kind of looks at. 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:20.440 They could never do it. 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.320 These you know, these workers could never handle this kind 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.280 of level of struggle and couldn't do this kind of 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.040 organization have built one of the most powerful inde kind 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:32.320 of farm worker unions in the West Coast. Lelo Alfredo Lelo, 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.720 was a founding member of this union. He was a 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.040 farm worker studying at the age of twelve, and since 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:44.400 then devote his entire life organizing to helping workers, to 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.200 being the kind of person who commits himself to the 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:49.199 work of making the world a better place than you 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.320 found it. You know, at twenty five, he is significantly 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:54.600 younger than me. And when I think of people who 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:56.280 I look up to, who I think of, Wow, when 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:57.719 I grew up, I want to be stione like that, 0:08:58.000 --> 0:08:58.480 I think. 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:01.480 Of Leloe little many of times over the years. 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.200 He's a very soft spoken, very thoughtful type of person. 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.719 And yeah, I think that the labor movement owes him 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.200 a bit of a debt. Now it is time that 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:12.880 we as a whole stand up for him. 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:13.960 Yeah. 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.760 Yeah, we are going to go to ads regrettably, and 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.240 then when we come back, we are going to start 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:32.240 talking I think a bit more about the repression we 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.640 are back. So obviously, then this is this is a 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.160 part of the story that you've been telling, the sort 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.600 the sort of capitalist class out in Bellingham, and you know, 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.320 the sort of I mean, this has been true of 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.520 the broader capitalist class since it's kind of organizing starting 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:48.920 like has been trying to break these unions this entire time. 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.440 You know, that has been a major focus of everything 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:55.080 that they've been doing. And you know, what we're seeing 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.240 right now seems like a massive sort of escalation in 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.920 the degree of for So, yeah, can we talk about 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:07.240 the recent black bagging Alilo and yeah, and sort of 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.360 what happens and where we go from there. 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:14.040 Yeah, the weaponization of the state to go after immigrants 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:17.319 and go after activists is I'm sure your audience is 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.920 well known, is nothing new, and it knows party affiliation, 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.559 the Democratic administrations have been doing this to immigrant communities, 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.520 and I've been using it to silence political activists. The 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.559 Chump administration, however, is now doing this on a level 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:34.640 that is at least to a lot of us unheard 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:36.840 of in the modern day, which is to go after 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.680 specific union leaders in the labor movement, to go after 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.520 civil rights leaders. You've seen this happen also when it 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:49.280 comes to Palasini rights activists around the country. The idea 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:53.000 is pretty simple, to silence the loudest voices, to cut 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:54.320 to leadership from the movement. 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:59.439 On March twenty fifth, Alfredo Lelo Barres. 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:04.000 Waspping off his girlfriend at a nearby farm for work 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:09.359 and was accosted by ICE agents as he was exercising 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.719 his rights or what he thought his rights were at 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.280 the time because of the regime. Who knows what your 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.480 rights are. They broke his window, they dragged him out. 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:18.840 Of his car. 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.600 You know, this was obviously a very traumatic incident, but 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.880 also it was a real shock to the union to 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.560 see to see the community group that works with the 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:31.800 union and to the local Hispanic community in the area. 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:37.120 Within hours of that, workers organizers community went to move 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.560 to try to carry a response. Knowing that time was 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.920 of the essence. He was then taken to a local 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.680 Heights facility. He's now since been moved to a detention 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:51.120 center in Tacoma, Washington. A large rally of hundreds took 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:56.000 place calling for his immediate release. What we know now 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:00.959 seemingly is that at the very last minute apologies, I 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:02.960 forget the exact day, but it was within a couple 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:08.439 of days of the kidnapping, Lelo was pulled off. He 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:12.680 has an automatic stay of deportation in place at this point, 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:17.120 no longer has any legal authority to remove Lelo. If 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.360 this came at the last minute, he was in line 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.600 for deportation and was removed at the. 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:22.440 Very last minute. 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:26.840 However, while this is good news, this is not good 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:31.400 for someone's personal health and well being. These are massively 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:36.520 cramped facilities, underfunded facilities. You know, there's horror stories around 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.480 the country of the conditions in some of these places. 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:43.720 Every day that Lelo is stuck behind these prison walls 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.400 is an injustice to our movement. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.720 Yeah, yeah, I think. The thing it immediately reminds me 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:53.520 of is the story of Thomas Paine, who was like 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:57.520 slated to be executed in the French Revolution and they didn't. 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.439 They didn't execute him because his door was opened, so 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.079 they didn't see the slash line on the cell that 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:02.920 I was supposed to execute him. And then like the 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.840 next day, the rate of terror ended with the coup 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:07.880 against the Jacobins. There rids me a lot of that, 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.040 but you know, but on the other hand, here's the thing. 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:13.680 We have gotten the stay of the deportation, but we 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.040 have not we have not brought down the rate of 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:16.720 terror yet. 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.640 So yeah, and I would hope it has the way 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:21.760 four more years for that one. 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.600 Yeah, good lord, good lord, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.000 let's let's talk a bit about So. I mean, obviously, 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.640 you know what we're seeing here and this this is 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.840 you know, the connection that you made is we're seeing 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.200 just on a sort of broad scale, the use of 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.240 the state and of the sort of black bagging and 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.760 of these deportations as a way to target organizers from 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:46.079 Palestine to label organizers. That's only going to expand as 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.640 this goes on. And I think something critical about you know, 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.640 one of the first things you were saying here about 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.040 the fact that they're targeting sort of the loudest voices 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.320 in the community. And I think a big part of 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.720 this is that they know that their position isn't as 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.200 strong as they're making it out to be. Right, Like 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:06.079 they have just detonated a nuke across the entire economy. 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.880 They are systemically going through and individually fucking over every 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:11.920 single group of people who are supposed to be their base. 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.680 And I think part of what they're doing is they're 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.840 trying to spread sort of raw terror and spread fear 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.560 and you know, and and attack the critical infrastructure of 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:26.560 organizing because they want to make it look like resisting 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:31.560 them as impossible, and that's just not true. They can be. 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:32.920 Yeah, absolutely. 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:37.520 I think that oftentimes, particularly fascistic power wants and needs 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:41.680 to present itself as inevitable, as overwhelming, and impossible to defeat, 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.200 in part because it's meant to hide the ultimate weakness 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:47.480 of some of these powers. 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:47.920 Yeah. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:52.000 The actual power that these farm workers showed against the 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:55.040 Sukuma farms when they went on strike and boycotted for 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.840 years and years and years out in the fields, talking 0:14:57.880 --> 0:14:59.960 to workers for years and years and years, it showed. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.160 But no matter how powerful some of these companies are, 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.040 some of the CEOs are that the power of workers 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:09.080 overwhelms and the power solidarity overwhelms and they know that 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.480 going after leadership, going after some of the most some 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.000 of the bravest people in our movement is a way 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.840 of trying to hit the movement at the knees and trying. 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.239 To convince folks that struggle list is impossible. 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.000 But I think it is important to remember that what 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.840 we're doing, the struggle now, the response. This is how 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:31.359 we show the population the world, you know, our communities, 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:35.880 that they are not inevitable, it is not insurmountable and 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.800 so and by taking action responding to the kinds of 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:43.280 specistic behaviors of the state, we show how feeble the 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:45.920 state can be at times, even when it seems it's 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:47.120 most treacherous and awful. 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.120 Yeah, And I think a lot of times when we 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.400 win fights, it can be very very hard to actually 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.400 see our victory because we don't see the world that 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.000 could have been if we didn't fight. And that's the 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.240 thing I think about what the administration we're in, the 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.640 first Shomp administration, they absolutely wanted to be doing this 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.200 kind of shit, and they were able to do a 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.160 lot of terrible stuff, but they weren't able to sort 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.720 of go this far because of the kind of mass 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.960 mobilizations that shut down a lot of the kinds of 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.880 things that they wanted to do. And I think that's 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.480 a kind of victory that is hard to kind of 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.120 like process because all all we see is, you know, 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.240 the suffering that did happen, and we can never see 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:32.120 an image of like all of the people you know, 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:36.400 who got to continue living their lives because we stop them, 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:38.840 And that I think is another sort of powerful tool here. 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:43.480 But also we do have an opportunity to make sure 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.000 that we can beat them right here and right now 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.000 in a way that's very, very public and visible. 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:50.520 And that's a question mark about that in my mind, 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:54.080 because you know, my entire adult life, I've heard stories 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.240 of the state repression against union organizers in the twenties 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.400 and the thirties and the forties. You hear the stories, 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:03.920 if you're in argier about all the violederas and how 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.439 hard it was in the past, and we forget that 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.359 a lot of that does continue on is just not 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.400 where you would imagine it where a lot of American 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.640 workers imagine it, and so they don't see it in 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.080 their shops and their factors, in their unions. 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.080 But this right here is an attack on the labor movement. 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.840 Had this been the head of you know, the Electricians Union, 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.000 the head of the SCIU. Had this been an attack 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.040 on what a lot of Americas wol view as the 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.480 mainstream labor movement, this would be headlines. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.320 The fact that it isn't shows and that it has been. 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:40.919 So much work to try to get attention to a 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.480 union leader being picked up and kidnapped by the state 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.760 should be you know, a blaring red light on the 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.919 labor movement to take action immediately. I hope that what 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.720 we're doing is the first steps to that, because you know, 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:55.359 this is one of those moments if you know, they 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:57.520 went after the trade unions unionists and I was not 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:58.760 a trade unionist. 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:01.520 Well, going after the farm work. I am not a 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:02.199 farm worker. 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.800 It isn't common upon us morally to stand up one 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:06.880 another at this point in time. 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.040 Yeah, And I think there's been a real kind of 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.479 real cowardice and a real sort of appeasement of power, 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.560 and a real sort of demonstration of where a lot 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.440 of these union's politics are. I mean, we saw the 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.439 way that the Teamsters like leadership just I mean just 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:24.199 you know, openly went to speak at the R and 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:28.640 C right. We've been seeing the UAW, which traditionally has 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.679 had better like immigration politics in the last few years 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:34.960 than a lot of these other sort of mainstream unions, 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:36.399 but it's also been sort of going to bat for 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.000 Trump's tariff, Like I've been calling you the turf tariffs 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.480 tariffs because of their wages of transphobia. But you know, 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:44.600 they've been going to bat for like the turf tariffs, right, 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.920 And that I think is like part of why they've 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.760 been sort of unable to like respond to this moment 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:52.600 and why they've been unable to respond to the past 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.840 fucking fifty years of moments, which is that like, if 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.159 you're sort of like labor politics is rooted in this 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.679 sort of like American now nationalist like American jobs for 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.960 American workers stuff, right, and it's not actually based in 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.040 the power of workers and the power of workers everywhere, 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.600 then you're going to lose. It's not just sort of 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.480 reactionary politics, so so it is it's also bad politics, 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:15.760 and we're seeing it right now. 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.440 Yeah, And I think that the history of the labor 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:20.360 movement has been an interesting one in my adult life 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.119 because you know, I'm. 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:23.120 As pro liber as they come. 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.160 However, the history of the labor movement in the modern 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:28.000 day has been a fascinating one. It is one that 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.200 when it came to large strikes, with that it's nadier 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.600 At the mid and late two thousands, I think at 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:36.880 one point it was just over a dozen strikes over 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.040 two thousand workers. And you compare that to the high 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:41.840 of the labor movement in the forties and the fifties 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:43.960 when it was in the hundreds, and you've had strike 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.240 actions all the time, and that is what built so 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.879 much of what we call middle class for some and 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.240 it was this really historic moment at the time, and 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.359 we're in a historic moment now where I think the 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:57.320 labor movement for so long from that point has been trying. 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.439 Workers in the rank and file have been trying to 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.119 kind of reshape the labor movement in the thoughts and 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.320 the ideas of the new but it comes with its 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:10.560 own regressive setbacks, and it comes with its own shortcomings 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.680 of leadership. You know, the teams to is making statements 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:18.359 around immigration rights was a very unfortunate thing to be 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.040 said in the modern day. In the modern context, I 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:25.760 think that you know, other unions seemingly looking to you know, 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.600 circle the wagons rather than take the risks that need 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:34.280 to happen in this current time. Has really shown a 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.399