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Speaker 1: Call Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to ikidapp Here Podcasts, where here is the rapidly

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Speaker 2: encroaching rise of fascism. My name is Mia Wong, and

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Speaker 2: one of the major vectors of fascism that we have

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Speaker 2: been covering on this show has been the increase in

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Speaker 2: just effectively straight up black baggings by ICE and Immigration's

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Speaker 2: enforcement in general. We have spent a good amount of

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Speaker 2: time covering a bunch of different angles of this, but

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Speaker 2: there is another incredibly distressing angle that we have not

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Speaker 2: covered as much yet, which is their targeting of labor organizers.

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Speaker 2: And with me to talk about that is Mark Medina

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Speaker 2: from Portland Jobs with Justice and the Coalition of Independent Unions.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, Mark, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Hi, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad to have you on. So one of

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Speaker 2: the most pressing sort of black baggings that's happened fairly

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Speaker 2: recently is ICE's kidnapping of a freight Wharezy for Reno

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Speaker 2: otherwise known as Lailo. Can you tell us about sort

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Speaker 2: of his work and the projects that he's been doing

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Speaker 2: and Famulus you need us Justicia.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's been a very disheartening and scary couple

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Speaker 4: of weeks since it's happened, because this opens up a

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Speaker 4: new path for the state to go after organizers, to

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Speaker 4: go after workers and the most underprivileged in our society

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Speaker 4: in a way that I suppose we all expected. But

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Speaker 4: now that we see it, now that we see it happening,

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Speaker 4: now that we see it happening to people that we

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Speaker 4: know in our community, it's becoming a parent. There is

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Speaker 4: no turning back from the idea that we have to

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Speaker 4: be able to take this on head first. We as activists,

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Speaker 4: as organizers, have to look at this and then see

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Speaker 4: it as an actual thing in our day to day

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Speaker 4: that we have to combat and incorporate into our organizing.

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Speaker 4: So maybe it might be a little helpful to start

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Speaker 4: off with a little bit of a backstory on So

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Speaker 4: I mean I need us by Lassa. Yeah, So the

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Speaker 4: Union has its origins going back to twenty thirteen. The

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Speaker 4: area in which they organize, the Bellingham or the Washington

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Speaker 4: Walkins scadged areas, has the very particular type of immigrant

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Speaker 4: community there. Lelo himself is of Meteco background. There's a

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Speaker 4: lot of indigenous Mexican populations in the region. It's also

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Speaker 4: one that has long routes a lot of these people

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Speaker 4: go back generations, have been here for quite some time.

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Speaker 4: This area also happens to be a very particularly with

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Speaker 4: the non Hispanic population, particularly the white population, a very conservative,

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Speaker 4: particularly conservative for the area. It's one of the very

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Speaker 4: few areas of Northwest that Donald Trump came to visit.

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Speaker 4: It's an area that has had repeated attacks on then

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Speaker 4: imbric community. And so it's in this context that workers

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Speaker 4: are organizing in twenty thirteen for this first independent union.

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Speaker 4: And two it's important to mention the independent part of it.

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Speaker 3: A lot of the.

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Speaker 4: Organizers from the start of this of the union came

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Speaker 4: from a tradition of the United farm Workers in California.

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Speaker 4: They some of them worked with Seef Javis in the

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Speaker 4: heyday of the United farm Workers. And in the years

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Speaker 4: and decades since then, since the Delana voidcotts and other things,

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Speaker 4: there's been a growing rift of what the next steps

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Speaker 4: should be. And I think that for a lot of

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Speaker 4: farm workers, because they don't organize under the general labor

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Speaker 4: law that we have for most workers, there is a

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Speaker 4: sort of patchwork system for how farm working organizing happens

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Speaker 4: in the United States that's dependent upon different states and legislatures,

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Speaker 4: and for the most part, with the exception of only

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Speaker 4: two states, farm workers don't have the same kind of

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Speaker 4: protections that regular workers generally in the society have for

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Speaker 4: union recognition, for collective bargaining. Only Washington and New York

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Speaker 4: at the moment, I believe have the laws that allow

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Speaker 4: for elections for farm worker unions, and there is a

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Speaker 4: very particular reasons for that being the case. Farm workers

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Speaker 4: were excluded from the Wagner Act for having general labor

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Speaker 4: rights in the nineteen thirty because precisely it was seen.

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Speaker 3: As immigrant labor.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and immigrants were not seen as meriting the same

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Speaker 4: rights as white Americans in the same way the domestic

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Speaker 4: workers were removed because I was seen at the time

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Speaker 4: as black labor.

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Speaker 3: So it has its roots and racism.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, and that's something that you know, like you

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Speaker 2: can tie that exclusion, like there's a straight line between

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Speaker 2: that and Japanese and tournaments, which also to a large extent,

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Speaker 2: is about land seizure and this sort of like fusion

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Speaker 2: of racism, specifically racism in the farming sector with the

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Speaker 2: tax and labor rights and with this desire to just

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Speaker 2: sort of seize literally the lands and labor from non

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Speaker 2: white people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's a long and bleak history.

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Speaker 4: No, absolutely, and I'm sure your audience is well aware

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Speaker 4: of a lot of these subject matter. It is a

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Speaker 4: bleak history, and it wasn't until groups like the United

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Speaker 4: farm Workers in the sixties and the seventies, I think,

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Speaker 4: began to create the possibility for something new for the

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Speaker 4: Hispanic community. It was United farm Workers that built not

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Speaker 4: just a lot of solidarity with other immigrant groups in

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Speaker 4: the California area, but they also built a sense of

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Speaker 4: pride and identity and belonging for a lot of communities.

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Speaker 4: I grew up in Boro Heights, East Los Angeles, says

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Speaker 4: such Travis and the Knight farm worker murals are everywhere.

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Speaker 4: You know. Me and my friends would often joke as

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Speaker 4: seb Jravis is like the Patron Saints. It's Los Angeles,

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Speaker 4: even though it's nowhere near Delano.

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Speaker 3: And there's a reason for that.

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Speaker 4: I think that a lot of us looked up to

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Speaker 4: the United farm Workers, We looked up to the farm

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Speaker 4: worker Union movement, and we saw in them our heroes,

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Speaker 4: our modern day heroes.

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Speaker 3: We saw them.

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Speaker 4: We saw people who said be proud to be brown.

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Speaker 4: You know, there's a courage that comes from that history.

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Speaker 4: The union movement that then sprung up in twenty thirteen

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Speaker 4: in the Bellingham, Northern Washington area was coming out of

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Speaker 4: that milieu. They understood that background, they understood that history,

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Speaker 4: but they also understood that there was very little organizing

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Speaker 4: in the region. There was a lot of fear in

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Speaker 4: the region. It's very difficult to organize farm workers to

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Speaker 4: have access to a lot of these areas. You have

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Speaker 4: to cross just private property for quite some time before

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Speaker 4: you reach the first farm workers, and it becomes very,

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Speaker 4: very difficult to have organizing happen.

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Speaker 3: And it's intentional that way.

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Speaker 4: The rise in farm worker unions that happened in the

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Speaker 4: sixties and seventies had a massive plummet by the time

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Speaker 4: the beginning in the nineteen two thousands, and so these

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Speaker 4: workers had heard these stories, had heard by this legacy,

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Speaker 4: but had been essentially delivered with increasing frustration, racist behavior

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Speaker 4: by bosses, lower and lower pay, and the use of

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Speaker 4: certain types of immigrants to try to scab their jobs.

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Speaker 4: It be the capitalist class using one type of worker

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Speaker 4: against another type of worker, picking them against each other.

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Speaker 4: It's in this context in twenty thirteen that this union

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Speaker 4: starts to form, they go public at that time period,

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Speaker 4: they call for recognition and they started taking action directly,

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Speaker 4: and they organized this years and years long boycott campaign

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Speaker 4: to gain recognition, to get the employer to start bargaining.

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Speaker 4: And after years and years of this, I court battles

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Speaker 4: and the employer trying to lay everyone off and hire

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Speaker 4: certain types of newer immigrants coming in to replace all

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Speaker 4: of them, putting one worker against another, all these types

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Speaker 4: of maneuvers. By twenty seventeen, these workers win a contract,

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Speaker 4: and the philosophy of the union since then has been

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Speaker 4: not just to grow this union, but also for them

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Speaker 4: to be able to stand on their own two feet.

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Speaker 4: Their idea is that they are very proud of their

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Speaker 4: independent nature of that union. They're not part of, you know,

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Speaker 4: the AFL CIO, they're not part of the UNICE farm workers,

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Speaker 4: They're not part of any other organization.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: When I spoke to some of their leaders last year,

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Speaker 4: one of the things that came to mind was they

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Speaker 4: brought up a quote from Eugene Debts, the notion of

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Speaker 4: like if we were to lead you into the promised land,

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Speaker 4: someone else would just lead out. And the notion of

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Speaker 4: their union is we have to be able to stand

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Speaker 4: on our two feet. We can't rely on anyone else

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Speaker 4: because if we, if they promises things today tomorrow, they'll

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Speaker 4: hold something over us. And so the notion that farm

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Speaker 4: workers lead this movement and leave this union is an

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Speaker 4: incredibly powerful statement of what working class people can do.

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Speaker 4: The kinds of workers that everyone else kind of looks at.

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Speaker 3: They could never do it.

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Speaker 4: These you know, these workers could never handle this kind

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Speaker 4: of level of struggle and couldn't do this kind of

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Speaker 4: organization have built one of the most powerful inde kind

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Speaker 4: of farm worker unions in the West Coast. Lelo Alfredo Lelo,

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Speaker 4: was a founding member of this union. He was a

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Speaker 4: farm worker studying at the age of twelve, and since

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Speaker 4: then devote his entire life organizing to helping workers, to

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Speaker 4: being the kind of person who commits himself to the

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Speaker 4: work of making the world a better place than you

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Speaker 4: found it. You know, at twenty five, he is significantly

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Speaker 4: younger than me. And when I think of people who

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Speaker 4: I look up to, who I think of, Wow, when

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Speaker 4: I grew up, I want to be stione like that,

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 3: Of Leloe little many of times over the years.

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Speaker 4: He's a very soft spoken, very thoughtful type of person.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I think that the labor movement owes him

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Speaker 4: a bit of a debt. Now it is time that

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Speaker 4: we as a whole stand up for him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we are going to go to ads regrettably, and

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Speaker 2: then when we come back, we are going to start

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Speaker 2: talking I think a bit more about the repression we

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Speaker 2: are back. So obviously, then this is this is a

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Speaker 2: part of the story that you've been telling, the sort

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Speaker 2: the sort of capitalist class out in Bellingham, and you know,

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Speaker 2: the sort of I mean, this has been true of

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Speaker 2: the broader capitalist class since it's kind of organizing starting

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Speaker 2: like has been trying to break these unions this entire time.

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Speaker 2: You know, that has been a major focus of everything

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Speaker 2: that they've been doing. And you know, what we're seeing

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Speaker 2: right now seems like a massive sort of escalation in

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Speaker 2: the degree of for So, yeah, can we talk about

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Speaker 2: the recent black bagging Alilo and yeah, and sort of

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Speaker 2: what happens and where we go from there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the weaponization of the state to go after immigrants

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Speaker 4: and go after activists is I'm sure your audience is

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Speaker 4: well known, is nothing new, and it knows party affiliation,

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Speaker 4: the Democratic administrations have been doing this to immigrant communities,

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Speaker 4: and I've been using it to silence political activists. The

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Speaker 4: Chump administration, however, is now doing this on a level

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Speaker 4: that is at least to a lot of us unheard

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Speaker 4: of in the modern day, which is to go after

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Speaker 4: specific union leaders in the labor movement, to go after

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Speaker 4: civil rights leaders. You've seen this happen also when it

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Speaker 4: comes to Palasini rights activists around the country. The idea

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Speaker 4: is pretty simple, to silence the loudest voices, to cut

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Speaker 4: to leadership from the movement.

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Speaker 3: On March twenty fifth, Alfredo Lelo Barres.

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Speaker 4: Waspping off his girlfriend at a nearby farm for work

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Speaker 4: and was accosted by ICE agents as he was exercising

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Speaker 4: his rights or what he thought his rights were at

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Speaker 4: the time because of the regime. Who knows what your

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Speaker 4: rights are. They broke his window, they dragged him out.

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Speaker 3: Of his car.

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Speaker 4: You know, this was obviously a very traumatic incident, but

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Speaker 4: also it was a real shock to the union to

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Speaker 4: see to see the community group that works with the

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Speaker 4: union and to the local Hispanic community in the area.

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Speaker 4: Within hours of that, workers organizers community went to move

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Speaker 4: to try to carry a response. Knowing that time was

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Speaker 4: of the essence. He was then taken to a local

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Speaker 4: Heights facility. He's now since been moved to a detention

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Speaker 4: center in Tacoma, Washington. A large rally of hundreds took

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Speaker 4: place calling for his immediate release. What we know now

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Speaker 4: seemingly is that at the very last minute apologies, I

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Speaker 4: forget the exact day, but it was within a couple

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Speaker 4: of days of the kidnapping, Lelo was pulled off. He

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Speaker 4: has an automatic stay of deportation in place at this point,

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Speaker 4: no longer has any legal authority to remove Lelo. If

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Speaker 4: this came at the last minute, he was in line

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Speaker 4: for deportation and was removed at the.

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Speaker 3: Very last minute.

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Speaker 4: However, while this is good news, this is not good

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Speaker 4: for someone's personal health and well being. These are massively

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Speaker 4: cramped facilities, underfunded facilities. You know, there's horror stories around

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Speaker 4: the country of the conditions in some of these places.

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Speaker 4: Every day that Lelo is stuck behind these prison walls

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Speaker 4: is an injustice to our movement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think. The thing it immediately reminds me

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Speaker 2: of is the story of Thomas Paine, who was like

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Speaker 2: slated to be executed in the French Revolution and they didn't.

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Speaker 2: They didn't execute him because his door was opened, so

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Speaker 2: they didn't see the slash line on the cell that

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Speaker 2: I was supposed to execute him. And then like the

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Speaker 2: next day, the rate of terror ended with the coup

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Speaker 2: against the Jacobins. There rids me a lot of that,

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Speaker 2: but you know, but on the other hand, here's the thing.

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Speaker 2: We have gotten the stay of the deportation, but we

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Speaker 2: have not we have not brought down the rate of

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Speaker 2: terror yet.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, and I would hope it has the way

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Speaker 3: four more years for that one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good lord, good lord, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So

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Speaker 2: let's let's talk a bit about So. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 2: you know what we're seeing here and this this is

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Speaker 2: you know, the connection that you made is we're seeing

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Speaker 2: just on a sort of broad scale, the use of

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Speaker 2: the state and of the sort of black bagging and

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Speaker 2: of these deportations as a way to target organizers from

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Speaker 2: Palestine to label organizers. That's only going to expand as

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Speaker 2: this goes on. And I think something critical about you know,

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Speaker 2: one of the first things you were saying here about

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Speaker 2: the fact that they're targeting sort of the loudest voices

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Speaker 2: in the community. And I think a big part of

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Speaker 2: this is that they know that their position isn't as

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Speaker 2: strong as they're making it out to be. Right, Like

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Speaker 2: they have just detonated a nuke across the entire economy.

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Speaker 2: They are systemically going through and individually fucking over every

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Speaker 2: single group of people who are supposed to be their base.

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Speaker 2: And I think part of what they're doing is they're

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Speaker 2: trying to spread sort of raw terror and spread fear

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Speaker 2: and you know, and and attack the critical infrastructure of

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Speaker 2: organizing because they want to make it look like resisting

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Speaker 2: them as impossible, and that's just not true. They can be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 4: I think that oftentimes, particularly fascistic power wants and needs

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Speaker 4: to present itself as inevitable, as overwhelming, and impossible to defeat,

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Speaker 4: in part because it's meant to hide the ultimate weakness

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Speaker 4: of some of these powers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The actual power that these farm workers showed against the

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Speaker 4: Sukuma farms when they went on strike and boycotted for

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Speaker 4: years and years and years out in the fields, talking

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Speaker 4: to workers for years and years and years, it showed.

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Speaker 4: But no matter how powerful some of these companies are,

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Speaker 4: some of the CEOs are that the power of workers

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Speaker 4: overwhelms and the power solidarity overwhelms and they know that

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Speaker 4: going after leadership, going after some of the most some

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Speaker 4: of the bravest people in our movement is a way

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Speaker 4: of trying to hit the movement at the knees and trying.

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Speaker 3: To convince folks that struggle list is impossible.

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Speaker 4: But I think it is important to remember that what

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Speaker 4: we're doing, the struggle now, the response. This is how

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Speaker 4: we show the population the world, you know, our communities,

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Speaker 4: that they are not inevitable, it is not insurmountable and

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Speaker 4: so and by taking action responding to the kinds of

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Speaker 4: specistic behaviors of the state, we show how feeble the

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Speaker 4: state can be at times, even when it seems it's

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Speaker 4: most treacherous and awful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think a lot of times when we

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Speaker 2: win fights, it can be very very hard to actually

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Speaker 2: see our victory because we don't see the world that

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Speaker 2: could have been if we didn't fight. And that's the

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Speaker 2: thing I think about what the administration we're in, the

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Speaker 2: first Shomp administration, they absolutely wanted to be doing this

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Speaker 2: kind of shit, and they were able to do a

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Speaker 2: lot of terrible stuff, but they weren't able to sort

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Speaker 2: of go this far because of the kind of mass

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Speaker 2: mobilizations that shut down a lot of the kinds of

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Speaker 2: things that they wanted to do. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: a kind of victory that is hard to kind of

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Speaker 2: like process because all all we see is, you know,

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Speaker 2: the suffering that did happen, and we can never see

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Speaker 2: an image of like all of the people you know,

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Speaker 2: who got to continue living their lives because we stop them,

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Speaker 2: And that I think is another sort of powerful tool here.

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Speaker 2: But also we do have an opportunity to make sure

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Speaker 2: that we can beat them right here and right now

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Speaker 2: in a way that's very, very public and visible.

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Speaker 4: And that's a question mark about that in my mind,

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Speaker 4: because you know, my entire adult life, I've heard stories

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Speaker 4: of the state repression against union organizers in the twenties

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Speaker 4: and the thirties and the forties. You hear the stories,

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Speaker 4: if you're in argier about all the violederas and how

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Speaker 4: hard it was in the past, and we forget that

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Speaker 4: a lot of that does continue on is just not

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Speaker 4: where you would imagine it where a lot of American

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Speaker 4: workers imagine it, and so they don't see it in

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Speaker 4: their shops and their factors, in their unions.

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Speaker 3: But this right here is an attack on the labor movement.

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Speaker 4: Had this been the head of you know, the Electricians Union,

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Speaker 4: the head of the SCIU. Had this been an attack

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Speaker 4: on what a lot of Americas wol view as the

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Speaker 4: mainstream labor movement, this would be headlines.

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Speaker 3: The fact that it isn't shows and that it has been.

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Speaker 4: So much work to try to get attention to a

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Speaker 4: union leader being picked up and kidnapped by the state

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Speaker 4: should be you know, a blaring red light on the

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Speaker 4: labor movement to take action immediately. I hope that what

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Speaker 4: we're doing is the first steps to that, because you know,

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Speaker 4: this is one of those moments if you know, they

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Speaker 4: went after the trade unions unionists and I was not

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Speaker 4: a trade unionist.

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Speaker 3: Well, going after the farm work. I am not a

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Speaker 3: farm worker.

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Speaker 4: It isn't common upon us morally to stand up one

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Speaker 4: another at this point in time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think there's been a real kind of

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Speaker 2: real cowardice and a real sort of appeasement of power,

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Speaker 2: and a real sort of demonstration of where a lot

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Speaker 2: of these union's politics are. I mean, we saw the

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Speaker 2: way that the Teamsters like leadership just I mean just

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Speaker 2: you know, openly went to speak at the R and

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Speaker 2: C right. We've been seeing the UAW, which traditionally has

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Speaker 2: had better like immigration politics in the last few years

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Speaker 2: than a lot of these other sort of mainstream unions,

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Speaker 2: but it's also been sort of going to bat for

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Speaker 2: Trump's tariff, Like I've been calling you the turf tariffs

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Speaker 2: tariffs because of their wages of transphobia. But you know,

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Speaker 2: they've been going to bat for like the turf tariffs, right,

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Speaker 2: And that I think is like part of why they've

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Speaker 2: been sort of unable to like respond to this moment

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Speaker 2: and why they've been unable to respond to the past

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Speaker 2: fucking fifty years of moments, which is that like, if

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Speaker 2: you're sort of like labor politics is rooted in this

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Speaker 2: sort of like American now nationalist like American jobs for

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Speaker 2: American workers stuff, right, and it's not actually based in

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Speaker 2: the power of workers and the power of workers everywhere,

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Speaker 2: then you're going to lose. It's not just sort of

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Speaker 2: reactionary politics, so so it is it's also bad politics,

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Speaker 2: and we're seeing it right now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that the history of the labor

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Speaker 4: movement has been an interesting one in my adult life

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Speaker 4: because you know, I'm.

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Speaker 3: As pro liber as they come.

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Speaker 4: However, the history of the labor movement in the modern

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Speaker 4: day has been a fascinating one. It is one that

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Speaker 4: when it came to large strikes, with that it's nadier

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Speaker 4: At the mid and late two thousands, I think at

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Speaker 4: one point it was just over a dozen strikes over

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Speaker 4: two thousand workers. And you compare that to the high

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Speaker 4: of the labor movement in the forties and the fifties

385
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Speaker 4: when it was in the hundreds, and you've had strike

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Speaker 4: actions all the time, and that is what built so

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Speaker 4: much of what we call middle class for some and

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Speaker 4: it was this really historic moment at the time, and

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Speaker 4: we're in a historic moment now where I think the

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Speaker 4: labor movement for so long from that point has been trying.

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Speaker 4: Workers in the rank and file have been trying to

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Speaker 4: kind of reshape the labor movement in the thoughts and

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Speaker 4: the ideas of the new but it comes with its

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Speaker 4: own regressive setbacks, and it comes with its own shortcomings

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Speaker 4: of leadership. You know, the teams to is making statements

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Speaker 4: around immigration rights was a very unfortunate thing to be

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Speaker 4: said in the modern day. In the modern context, I

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Speaker 4: think that you know, other unions seemingly looking to you know,

399
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Speaker 4: circle the wagons rather than take the risks that need

400
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Speaker 4: to happen in this current time. Has really shown a

401
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Speaker 4: lack of imagination from some of the mainstream unions. And

402
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Speaker 4: the thing is, I hope for the best for them.

403
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Speaker 4: I want them to succeed and I want them to

404
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Speaker 4: get better because the world is a better place for

405
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Speaker 4: having these larger unions. However, if the independent movements, the

406
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Speaker 4: independent unions like Familias who need this po Thesia, like

407
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Speaker 4: these other unions in the region, that can be the

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Speaker 4: kind of canary in the coal mine, the kind of

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Speaker 4: labs of experimentation that can be the first people out

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Speaker 4: to do some of the most radical and interesting and

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Speaker 4: worker centric type of movement building and messaging.

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Speaker 3: Like I think there is the reason why.

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Speaker 4: It was the coalition of independent unions here in the

414
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Speaker 4: Pacific Northwest that came up with the notion of having

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Speaker 4: transity of solidarity, this idea of patterning contracts together to

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00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 4: have inclusive and protections for trans workers and having that

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Speaker 4: be a thing that unions take up together. I think

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Speaker 4: that it's incredibly notable that it's group's life for means

419
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Speaker 4: we need this that carry out this long years long

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Speaker 4: boycott and created a model by which other workers in

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Speaker 4: the region can not just organize themselves, but organize themselves

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Speaker 4: on a low cost, member led democratic model. I think

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Speaker 4: it's important to see that sometimes the large unions have

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Speaker 4: to start looking at some of the radical pragmatism that

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Speaker 4: comes from the necessities of these smaller independent campaigns.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean before we go to ads, I

427
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Speaker 2: think the last thing I want to say there is, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, the the other option they have is to

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Speaker 2: do the option of what the unions didn't during the

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Speaker 2: rise of the Nazis, which is like dreaming the rise

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Speaker 2: of the Nazis. The unions fell online, right, they fell

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Speaker 2: in line because they were scared and they thought that

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Speaker 2: they could fucking win benefits from it. And you know,

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Speaker 2: it saved some of them, like they were a few

435
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Speaker 2: of those people like just became Nazis, but the rest

436
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Speaker 2: of them got fucking liquidated. Anyways, So those are your options, right,

437
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 2: You either stand and fight now with the independent unions,

438
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Speaker 2: or you become part of the regime and eventually get liquidated.

439
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Speaker 2: When you know, Trump in like fucking two and a

440
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 2: half years science executive order that says unions are illegal

441
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 2: or whatever.

442
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, and what does that do at the end of

443
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 3: the day, even if it stays, even if you're the

444
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 3: head of some of these larger unions. And by working

445
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 3: with the administrative, the administration today, by selling your soul,

446
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 3: by selling the movement out, you give up the moral

447
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 3: high ground of our movement, of our working class democratic movement.

448
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, you give it up for another generation. Then when workers,

449
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 4: when people like myself growing up looking at images of

450
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,479
Speaker 4: the United farm Workers, there are similar I presume there

451
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 4: are similar people in the United States growing up who

452
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 4: look that way up to the United Lado Workers, look

453
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 4: that way up to the Teachers Union. What happens to

454
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 4: those children, to those kids, those young people who want

455
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 4: to be the next the next leadership, the next era

456
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 4: of the labor movement, they will not look at us as.

457
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 3: Having the moral high ground. We give that up. We

458
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 3: give our role in history, our moral role in history

459
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 3: to fight for the working class when we do things

460
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 3: like this.

461
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what you become and set is just another

462
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 2: extension of the state. You become like one of like

463
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 2: the national syndicates and like Franco of Spain. And what

464
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 2: and what that does to you is people people don't

465
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: look at you in a generation as a labor movement,

466
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 2: they look at you as just another arm of a

467
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 2: fascist regime. And it doesn't have to be like that.

468
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:47,479
Speaker 2: It really doesn't.

469
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, it does not.

470
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 4: I took no pleasure in saying this, you know, I

471
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,199
Speaker 4: take no pleasure in saying this. But it's an unfortunate reality.

472
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 4: And hopefully the turnaround can come from anywhere. It can

473
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 4: come from from unexpected places, and I hope there is one,

474
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 4: and things like.

475
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 3: Solidarity for Lelo. I hope it'd be a small link in.

476
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 4: The chain that moves the pensulum right back into the

477
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 4: direction of an ethical and moral superiority that comes with

478
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 4: fighting for working class folks.

479
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to take an ad break, and when

480
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 2: we come back, we're going to talk about what we

481
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 2: can do for Lilo. Right now, as as you are

482
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 2: listening to this, we are back. So let's talk about

483
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 2: both the operation I mean, just immediately, the plans to

484
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 2: sort of put pressure to free Lilo, and also what

485
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: then I guess we'll get into, sort of more broadly,

486
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 2: the kinds of fighting that we need to be doing

487
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 2: in order to resist this.

488
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 3: Sounds good, So, like I mentioned earlier, and you need.

489
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 4: An aftermath of lelo is kidnapping by ice, workers in

490
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 4: the region began organizing and unions came together and support

491
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 4: a Lelo and help a rally in front of the

492
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 4: tention center in Tacoma. Now, what we're trying to do

493
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 4: is trying to spread the word further. There are other communities,

494
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 4: particularly here on the West coast, that can't stand solidarity,

495
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 4: that should stand in solidarity. And when we heard this

496
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 4: needs to go down, activists within the CiU ask themselves

497
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 4: we can't stand idly by while a leader in our

498
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 4: movement is kidnapped by the state. We need to take action,

499
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 4: and so we did. And the point was to move

500
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 4: as quickly as possible to try to build a larger

501
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 4: voice for Lelo while he is in detention. So there

502
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 4: is a good number of activists here in the Portland area.

503
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 4: We can be of service to the farm Workers Union.

504
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 4: You know, we have a strong core of independent unions

505
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 4: here in the Pacific Northwest, particularly in the Portland area.

506
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 4: We can do what other unions are hesitant to do,

507
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 4: which is take action immediately. It stands firmly with our

508
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 4: brothers and sisters. Are monos up in northern Washington. So

509
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 4: what's happening is the call from the union is workers individually,

510
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 4: for people individually to call into the Attorney General in

511
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 4: Washington State and call to the release of Lelo, also

512
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 4: calling the new governor up in Washington State to call

513
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 4: for the release, bring a wider attention, making me known

514
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 4: that this person is someone who is important to the community,

515
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 4: cannot be expirited away to another country where they are

516
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 4: not from, where.

517
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 3: That is not their home, and taken away from their family,

518
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 3: the community and from the good work that they do.

519
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 4: And the other thing that we're trying to do is

520
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 4: we're trying to get local officials to also use their

521
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 4: voice to maximize the pressure to give more attention to

522
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 4: this issue.

523
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 3: So that's the call so far.

524
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 4: This rally that we're having in front of city Hall

525
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 4: on Saturday, April twelfth at two pm is the beginning

526
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 4: of what we hope is a larger campaign that will

527
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 4: not end until Lelo is free and until these raids

528
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 4: stop attacking the labor movement in the Pacific Northwest. You know,

529
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 4: just because we in Portland, you know, are not farm workers,

530
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 4: because we don't work with farm workers.

531
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 3: Because a lot of the workers who who work here

532
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: had maybe never met a farm worker.

533
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 4: It does not mean that we should not stand shoulder

534
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 4: and shoulder and arm and arm and support the farm

535
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 4: workers Union up in northern Washington to the hilt. And

536
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 4: this begins this fight of building that kind of level

537
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 4: of solidarity. It begins by showing up for them doing

538
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 4: what they can do right now. They don't have the

539
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 4: resources to go stay by stay in city by city

540
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 4: to bring its tension and awareness to one of their

541
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 4: leaders being attacked. But we can do it, and if

542
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 4: we can do it, we should do it. It's a

543
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 4: moral imperative that little be free.

544
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I mean statistically there are a lot

545
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 2: of you in Portland listening to the show, but statistically

546
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 2: most of you are not in Portland. Are there are

547
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 2: there things that people in the rest of the country,

548
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 2: and I guess the rest of the world. I know,

549
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: I know there's so Sally statistically don't live in the US. Yeah.

550
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,239
Speaker 2: Are are there things that people in other places can

551
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: do to put pressure specifically for Alala, but also just

552
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 2: can do in their own communities to you know, I

553
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 2: mean put pressure to stop these raids?

554
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 3: Yes?

555
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 4: Absolutely, So this is very similar I think to the CiU,

556
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 4: the Coalition of Independent Unions is Coalition of Independent Unions

557
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 4: here in the Pacific Northwest. It was trying to do

558
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 4: and it's trying to do with TRANSI of solidarity. The

559
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 4: idea is, we are trying to make this work here

560
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 4: in the Pacific Northwest, and if it's useful, if it's good,

561
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 4: if people are paying attention to it, then we can

562
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 4: export this to other cities in other areas to bring

563
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 4: more attention to these causes. And so with that one

564
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 4: pavan earning contracts together, particularly on this one issue of

565
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 4: transgender healthcare and trans influencive language and contracts, and codifying

566
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 4: that between unions and having that a demand of labor

567
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 4: movement that they not walk away from this. We want

568
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 4: to also do the same thing with this fight for

569
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 4: freedom for the farm workers union and their leaders and

570
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 4: workers everywhere. And the tax will comes soon soon enough,

571
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 4: I suppose, I would imagine from this regime in Washington.

572
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 4: If this works, we want workers in other cities to

573
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 4: start assisting the farm worker and take them up the

574
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 4: call of action and fighting for not just let up

575
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 4: whoever comes afterwards, because there will be levels in the

576
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 4: future unfortunate as they may be. So if this works here,

577
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 4: workers here as they hear more updates, we would hope

578
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 4: and we would love if workers elsewhere, if organizing groups

579
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 4: elsewhere would want to take up this fight and bring

580
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 4: attention to the cause.

581
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, yeah, And I think there is a lot

582
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 2: of you know, potential and sort of mobilizations. There's a

583
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: lot of potential in getting people to understand that this

584
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: stuff's happening, and there's a lot of potential in cross

585
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: uniting organizing. And also, and I will say this too

586
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: because like you know, obviously statistically like there are a

587
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 2: large number of people listening to this who are like

588
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 2: union staffers, but also like most of you are not.

589
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: That also doesn't mean that whatever kind of organizing that

590
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 2: you're doing doesn't overlap with this and doesn't have capacity

591
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: that they can bring to bear to stop the entire

592
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: deportation regime that we're facing right now. And that's something

593
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: that you have to do both on the level of

594
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: solid on a moral level, and also on a strategic level,

595
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: because again, he is going to come for you two.

596
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, you know, without making it too personal,

597
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 4: like I know level personally, I have met a little

598
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 4: many times over the years, He's a fantastic person.

599
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 3: The reason why a lot of us as organizers.

600
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 4: Why we do this kind of work to begin with,

601
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 4: is because we believe, as as bizarrely as it may be,

602
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 4: that we could be a link in the chain that

603
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 4: makes the world a better place, that we can leave

604
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 4: the world better off.

605
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 3: Than we found it.

606
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 4: And we also believe in what we're doing because when

607
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 4: we look at people who have been attacked by corporations

608
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 4: and attacked by the state, we feel a moral compulsion

609
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 4: to help. And what I would say to folks who

610
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 4: are outside of Portland who are hearing this story, who

611
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 4: hear the calls to call the Attorney General in Washington

612
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 4: State and demand that they'll be released, to follow up

613
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 4: with the union, but media further direction on how they

614
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 4: can and potentially holding their own rallies and support and

615
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 4: solidarity and bring attention to the issue.

616
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 3: I would hope that they do this.

617
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 4: Imagine if Letlo were your brother, Imagine if Letlo were

618
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 4: your cousin, your father, your friend, Act as if they

619
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 4: were them, because it requires that level of empathy to

620
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 4: have the kind of solidarity that we need in order

621
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 4: to fight this fastiest regime and everything that it does.

622
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 4: It is easy to say I will wait for someone

623
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 4: else to do the work. I will, someone else will

624
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 4: come along and it'll get resolved that way. No, if

625
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 4: you don't do the work, it just will not get done.

626
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 4: And so we have to go in every day as

627
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 4: part of civic engagement and assisting the working class, as

628
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 4: part of our daily routines, and using the kind of

629
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 4: the kind of sense of moral necessity and of immediate action.

630
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 4: It requires that you would do for someone that was

631
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 4: close to you, because this person is you just by

632
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 4: another name. This person is your fan, even if you've

633
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 4: never met them. We were all in this together as

634
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 4: working class people. And if we start coming up with

635
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 4: boundaries and reasons for a while we shouldn't stand up

636
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 4: for one another, those reasons then become excuses for everyone else.

637
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 4: So I would hope that when people hear this, they

638
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,719
Speaker 4: look and see the struggle of this person, and they

639
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 4: can imagine what would happen to them in the future,

640
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 4: and they say, I would want someone there for me

641
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 4: in my corner, in my time of me, So I

642
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 4: will be there for them and theirs.

643
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it reminds me a lot of this line from

644
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: Peggy Seeger, who wrote wrote an anti fascist song called

645
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: Song of Choice, and one of the verses that's always

646
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: stuck with me is today the soldiers took away one.

647
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 2: Tomorrow they may take away two. In April, they took

648
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: away Greece, but surely they will never take you. And

649
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, that's the thing that people in

650
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 2: the thirties woke up to, right is you know, if

651
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: you're in this country and this is the thing that

652
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 2: you're waking up to now, is that, yeah, the soldiers

653
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 2: are taking people away, and every day they're taking away

654
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: more and more people. And day you wake up and

655
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 2: they've taken entire countries. And the only way that you

656
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: can stop this is by making sure that the action

657
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: that you're taking is not just waking up and going

658
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: back to sleep. Right, Yep, you have to take a stand.

659
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 2: You have to fight because no one is coming. The

660
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: only person who was coming for these people, the only

661
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: person who is coming for the people coming next to them,

662
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 2: and inevitably the only people who is coming to save

663
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: you when they come for you is going to be you.

664
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: And you know there are enough of us to stop them,

665
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 2: right There always have been, That's always been a thing

666
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,239
Speaker 2: about fascism is that it relies on us not fighting them.

667
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: It relies on us on our passivity, It relies on

668
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 2: us not caring enough about the people that they take first,

669
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 2: you know, to sit back and do nothing and think

670
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: that we can wait, and you can't have You have

671
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: to start right now, and you have to stop them

672
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: before they advance any further, and you have to roll

673
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: back what they've already done. And this is our opportunity

674
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: to do that.

675
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, I think that says that encapsulates the

676
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 4: sentiment perfectly.

677
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, do you have anything else that you want

678
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: to add before we head out? And we will put

679
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 2: links to a whole bunch of things in the description

680
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 2: to this. Yeah.

681
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 3: Yeah.

682
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 4: I suppose to those that would want to know more

683
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 4: about not just the struggle of the farm workers Union,

684
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 4: but also the general experiments in independent unionism here in

685
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 4: the Pacific Northwest, I'd highly encourage that folks take a

686
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 4: deep dive and see that to organize your workplace to

687
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 4: have the kind of solidarity with your coworkers, you need

688
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 4: not be dependent upon someone else and other organizations that

689
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 4: come in and sort of.

690
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 3: Rescue you from the mystery and drudgery. Of non union workplaces.

691
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: You can do it too. You can create.

692
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 4: You have it in your head, in your own mind

693
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 4: and your own ends, the ability to organize, the ability

694
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 4: to fight with your coworkers. You have the kind of

695
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 4: clever problem solving skills that every work or has in

696
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 4: order to come back the boss and create a better

697
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 4: world than the one that currently exists. And also that

698
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 4: when it comes to issues like standing up for this

699
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 4: struggle now and struggles in the future, I would say

700
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 4: you have it now, the creative capacity to in whatever

701
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 4: city you're in, to make connections, to build inroads with

702
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 4: the labor movement, to build inroads with working class people,

703
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 4: and to try to create those bonds that happen. We

704
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 4: here are trying to build closer bonds with city workers

705
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 4: and farm workers out in the country. It's an important

706
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 4: struggle because one it's going to be more and more

707
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 4: important in the future. You don't have to wait for

708
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 4: anyone else to tell you how to do that. You

709
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 4: yourselves can show solidarity and work together to build those

710
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 4: kinds of bonds now so that in the future you

711
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 4: can create working class movements, whether that takes the form

712
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 4: of collective bargaining or something else, organizing for the common

713
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 4: good is useful no matter in what legal capacity it happens.

714
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, you know, last one I want

715
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 2: to add about that in terms of looking at like

716
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 2: you not needing help to do things, like you know,

717
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 2: I know a lot of the people who you know,

718
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 2: like are the organizers who are hired by places like

719
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 2: the UAW like AFLCIO unions. Right, they're good people, like,

720
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 2: they are good people. They're good organizers. They don't know

721
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 2: anything that you can't learn, Like, a lot of these

722
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 2: people are just literally college students, right, who are recruited

723
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: like from college campuses and are thrown with no training

724
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 2: into organizing these things, right, and you know, and again

725
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 2: these are people who are just like stepping out of

726
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: classrooms into like into these organizing scenarios with very minimal training,

727
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 2: and they've been able to do it. And if those

728
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: people can do it, so can you, Like, I know you,

729
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: I know, I know these organizers And the only difference

730
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 2: between them and you is that they spent some time

731
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 2: learning some things and then they apply the same tools

732
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 2: like they apply in some ways worst versions of the

733
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 2: same tools the independent union organizers use, and they're all

734
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:02,919
Speaker 2: tools that you can learn.

735
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, And if any of the people listening want to

736
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 4: learn sim of these tools, yeah, or you help with

737
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 4: education and training, or just want to make connections in

738
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 4: interroads with workers elsewhere, contact the coalition independent.

739
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: Units and seeing how we can build these bonds together.

740
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 4: Because I think that we will problem solve how to

741
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 4: defeat this regime one way or another. But I think

742
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 4: that we, particularly in the independent union space, provide a

743
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 4: unique possibility for how this can happen. Because since we

744
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 4: are not tied to larger established contracts, we're not tied

745
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 4: to you know, jurisdictional disputes, we're not tied to a

746
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 4: lot of the legacies of some of the larger unions,

747
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 4: God bless them. We can create and fashion a labor

748
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 4: movement that doesn't have to live by those rules.

749
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

750
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 3: You know, if you imagine the idea of what it.

751
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 4: Would look like to refound the CIO in the nineteen thirties,

752
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 4: if you could imagine the worst aspects of labor movement

753
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 4: and excising them, and what is the best aspect of

754
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 4: labor move that you would want to see, we can

755
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 4: create that together today.

756
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 3: And today it takes the form of standing up in

757
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 3: solidarity with LELO and farm Workers Union up to northern Washington.

758
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 4: Not because we get anything from it, not because it's easy,

759
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 4: but precisely because it is difficult, and precisely because it

760
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 4: is a moral compulsion on us to take action today

761
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 4: for it.

762
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 3: We don't have to wait for anyone to tell us

763
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 3: what to do.

764
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 4: As part of an independent labor movement, we get to

765
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 4: decide our future and our faith, and we get to

766
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 4: decide our struggles.

767
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if and when we beat them here, we

768
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: can beat them today, we can beat them tomorrow, we

769
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 2: can beat the next day, and one day you know

770
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 2: we will. We will have one one victory too many

771
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 2: for them to hold on to power. And that's the

772
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 2: only way forward.

773
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 4: Absolutely, fascism wants you to believe in a nihilistic perspective

774
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 4: of the world. They want you to believe in which

775
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 4: it is hopeless to fight back. They want you to

776
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 4: believe just doom scroll forever and don't take any action

777
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 4: and focus on yourselves and naval gaze indefinitely.

778
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 2: No.

779
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 4: No. The way that you find out the kind of

780
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 4: person that you are and the way that you build

781
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 4: the kind of future that you want for yourselves, your families,

782
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 4: for your communities, for the people that you don't even know,

783
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 4: Oh I never will meet. What you want a good

784
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 4: life for them. The way that you do that is

785
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 4: you take action. Now, you start organizing, You do what

786
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 4: you can, you build what you can.

787
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 3: That's how we do this.

788
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 4: Like we said earlier, they want you to believe that

789
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 4: the fighter is already over, the history has already been written.

790
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 3: They only say that because they know it's not true.

791
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 4: Yep, and me and other people who talk like this,

792
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 4: who are as optimistic and as hopeful and is fight ready,

793
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 4: we don't believe this out of nowhere.

794
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 3: We believe this because we truly do see that the

795
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 3: better world is possible if we fight.

796
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think I think that's a spectacular place

797
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: to end. Mark, thank you so much for coming on

798
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 2: the show. Yeah, thank you, and everyone else who's listening

799
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 2: to this, go out and fight.

800
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 1: It could happen. Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

801
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

802
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

803
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

804
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 2: You listen to podcasts.

805
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: You can now find sources for It could happen here,

806
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening,