WEBVTT - The Invention of the Mirror, Part 3 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.800 My Rors. Welcome to Stove to Blow Your Mind, the 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:13.920 production of My Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:16.320 to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Land, and 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:18.560 I'm Joe McCormick, and we're back with part three of 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:21.400 our talk about mirrors. If you haven't listened to the 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:23.960 first two parts, you'd probably go back check those out first. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.599 But Rob to get us started today, I wanted to 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.800 revisit one of your favorite topics are our failures of 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.600 intuition and understanding how mirrors work. So we we talked 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.519 in previous parts about uh, your point about the rogby Venus. 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.600 You know how there's that painting of Venus looking in 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:42.600 the mirror and we see her face and we assume 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:44.920 she's looking at herself, but since we see her looking 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.680 at us, she actually couldn't be looking at herself. She's 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.279 looking at us, as you know, and as you love 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.640 to point out, our misunderstandings about the physics of mirrors. 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:58.360 Don't stop there. And so so I actually came across 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.240 one recently that I really enjoyed. Rachel and I were 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.280 doing this experiment earlier today, So so you at home 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:08.360 can play along. Um, a couple of questions imagine yourself 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:10.920 standing in front of a bathroom mirror and looking at 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.319 your own reflection. You're looking at your head. You're regarding 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.000 this glorious orb of bone and meat. Maybe he's got 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.560 some hair on it. And the question is how big 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:24.000 is your reflection of your head on the mirror if 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:26.800 you were to measure it, is it smaller than your 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:31.360 actual head, bigger than your actual head, or the same size? Yeah, 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:33.400 this is It's a great question because what are you 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:35.840 gonna do. You're gonna moving closer and measure it. Well, 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.399 you could measure if your normal bathroom mirror size. You 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:40.960 could measure it without stepping forward. You can just reach 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:43.040 out and mark the places, you know, touch the mirror, 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:44.560 where your chin is and where the top of your 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.520 head is. But before you do that, just just guess 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:51.160 before you actually measure it. The second thing is after 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.680 you do that, imagine walking backwards away from a mirror, 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.280 so you take a few steps back. What is going 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:01.480 to happen to the size of your head in your reflection? 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:03.280 Is it going to get larger, is it going to 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:11.960 stay the same size, or will it get smaller. Now, 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.120 my intuitions about this were apparently exactly the same as 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.720 most people's intuitions about these the answers to these questions, 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.280 which are both wrong. My intuition was, well, I think 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.920 my head in my reflection is going to be the 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.359 same size as my real head, and I think as 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.080 I walk backward, the size of that head in my 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.720 reflection is going to be smaller. And in fact, both 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.359 of these are wrong. As intuitive as they feel, if 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.680 you actually reach out and measure it, your reflection of 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.320 your head is half the size of your real head, 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.560 and as you walk backwards away from the mirror from 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.840 your perspective, your reflected head will stay exactly the same 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:56.680 size no matter how far you get away. Very odd. 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.280 It seems totally counterintuitive until you start thinking about what's 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.080 actually happening with a mirror. If you imagine a mirror 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:06.120 as a sort of window into the mirror world, it's 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.839 a little bit easier to think about because if you're 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:12.920 looking at your reflected self as a person in uh, 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.640 you know, in that other mirror world, your reflection is 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:21.520 always at exactly the halfway point between yourself and that 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.079 reflected version of yourself. So, in fact, given the vantage 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:29.239 point of your eyes, your reflected head is always going 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.520 to appear to be half the size of your real 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:35.120 head from wherever you are, and as you move backwards 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.080 in a mirror, if someone were standing in the same 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.280 place and looking at your reflection as you moved backwards, 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:43.680 it would appear to get smaller. But since your eyes 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.960 are moving back with you as you retreat from a mirror, 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:52.320 your reflection actually never gets smaller. It stays exactly the same. Wow. Yeah, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.680 that's that's It's really mind blowing when you think about it. 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:59.640 For sure. Um again, these just strange objects in our 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.920 in our lives. But it's almost when you're talking about 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.880 the reflected world, the specular world, it's not even that 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.440 that itself is not the object that is this uh, 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.240 this this unreality, this uh, this inverse kingdom that we 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.760 seem to glimpse through the glass. You know, we've talked 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.400 a bit in previous parts here about the possible effects 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.200 on our our self image and self consciousness that could 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.599 be created by different types of mirrors, Like if you 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.560 have a culture where most mirrors are slightly convex, and 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.520 you know, convex mirrors lead to particular kinds of distortions, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.760 widening of the field around the head, and sort of 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:38.279 depending on where you hold it and how far away 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:42.000 sort of pronouncement of certain features. Uh. You you wonder 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:45.240 if slightly convex mirrors give way to a culture with 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.720 slightly convex self image. And but but it also makes 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.320 me wonder, like, what are the self image properties that 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:54.679 cause us to believe that our face in the mirror 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.040 is the same size as our real face when actually 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.640 it's half the size. It's almost kind of comical to 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.560 think of, you like, looking at this little tiny things 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.480 like a few inches, uh, and thinking that it's exactly 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:07.320 the same as your as your big old head and 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:11.000 meat space. Yeah, I mean it. It falls in line 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:14.440 with some of the other ideas we've discussed here, including, 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.400 you know, the idea that that is what I look like, uh, 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:21.080 and that it is not a flipped version of my face. Uh. 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.120 You know that that effect that we we sometimes get 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.880 when we see a photograph of ourselves and it does 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:29.680 not look like our mirror reflection, and therefore we're a 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.280 little turned off by it because you know, our right 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.120 side of our faces on the left side, that sort 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.960 of thing. Yeah. And and of course it also goes 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.600 without saying that the mirror is always staring back at us. 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:44.520 You know that um that that that can't be avoided 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.239 as well. So in the last episode we talked about 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.640 the emergence of metal mirrors in the ancient world, with 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:56.080 copper and copper alloy looking glasses in Egypt and Mesopotamia 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.200 from around the third millennium BC on. So these would 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.120 be highly polish pieces of metal people would use to 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.000 uh would you use to look at their reflections for 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.600 mundane and cosmetic purposes, but also for say religious symbolism. 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.480 Maybe in Egypt you might put a polished piece of metal, 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:13.880 a metal mirror, on the top of a staff, and 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:16.359 it might symbolize something about the sun. You know that 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:21.320 Egypt has a very solar oriented UH pantheon. But over 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.680 time the mirror technology would expand to include all kinds 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:28.080 of metals. First, so not just a later forms of 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.960 copper alloys, meaning especially bronze, you know, higher qualities of bronze, 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:34.719 but also things like gold and silver, and so in 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.680 say ancient Rome, you can find various types of silver 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.279 mirrors and things like that. So metal technology and different 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:45.360 types of metals become more available and UH and and 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:49.440 so mirrors based on those metals also proliferate. And one 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:51.719 thing I was thinking about this is noted in that 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.120 paper by j Enoch that I referenced in the past 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.880 couple of episodes, UH, is that you know, sometimes when 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:00.840 we talk about inventions, there are these techno cold developments 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.960 that stay relatively isolated in one place for a long time. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.240 Maybe you get some little like curio exported to some 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:10.560 of their culture and it gets written about. But then 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.680 there are the other ones that really just proliferate throughout 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.600 the globe, whether by trade and contact or just by 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:20.200 parallel invention. And the mirror is definitely one of these 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:25.400 technologies that proliferates. Eventually you find it everywhere. Enoch writes, quote, 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:30.520 by approximately two thousand BC, there existed dispersed utilization of 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.640 mirrors in virtually every major region of the world with 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:38.360 settled societies. This includes Central and South America. After that time, 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:42.520 mirror distribution and quality increased rapidly so but by a 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:46.280 certain point deep into the ancient world, mirrors are everywhere, 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.520 partially is a product of of parallel invention and partially 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.600 through trade in contact. And one place where it seems 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:56.200 to be that mirrors tend to take on a lot 0:07:56.280 --> 0:08:01.360 of religious and cultural significance is in China. Yeah, I was. 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:03.240 I was reading about this, and it was it was 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:07.280 really fascinating. Um, you know, like you were saying, mirror 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:13.240 technology spreads, but then also, uh technology metaphors spread as well, 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.200 and the use of of our ideas concerning mirrors. So 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.200 that's that was one of the things I was really 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:21.560 looking at when I was researching for this episode. And 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:26.280 so it led me to a wonderful article about Chinese 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:30.880 mirrors and um and um and particularly how different ancient 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.800 philosophers looked at them and used mirror or reflection metaphors. 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.199 And it was it was titled Mirrors, Minds and Metaphors, 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.720 published in Philosophy East and West two thousand and eight 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.880 by Aaron M. Klein. And Uh, this particular paper was 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.760 largely looking at a couple of different Chinese philosophers from 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:54.600 the fourth and third century b c. E and UM 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:56.840 and and dealing with like how they dealt with the 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:01.000 idea of mirrors and reflections. Um. But but I want 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:03.439 to first drive home that, Yeah, you have middle metal 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.720 mirrors that were popping up in China. Uh, certainly as 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.040 as early as this second millennium b C. And if 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.560 you look at some of the examples of of bronze 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.520 mirrors from ancient China particularly. I was looking at some 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.160 images of of some mirrors discovered in a two thousand 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.880 year old treasure trove that was turned up in recent years. 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:26.080 They're quite interesting. You'll typically see one side of them 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:30.200 photographed because they had two different sides. One side, they're 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.559 going to be more or less flat, generally circular, though 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.960 I think I've seen some that had slightly different shape. 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:41.080 Uh so flat circular um one side is going to 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.800 be featureless and reflective, but the other side is going 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.640 to be often just ornately decorated. So it can be 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.160 a bit be a little off putting when you see 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.600 a picture and and it's described as a mirror and 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.319 you're trying to figure out where you're supposed to look 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:56.840 for the reflection. This is so funny. I was actually 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.439 looking at a bunch of mirrors in the met Museum 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.040 collection just on their website. Uh and I kept noticing this. 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:05.680 I would look at it, I'd be like, what, that's 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.640 not a mirror, But then I realized they're showing me 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:09.679 the back of the mirror. I think because the back 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.320 has all the interesting decorations and everything on it. And 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.400 this was true of so some ancient Roman mirrors. I 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:19.280 was looking at some Iranian mirrors, some and some ancient 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:23.240 Chinese mirrors, where in all cases all of the beautiful 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:27.120 decorations the inlays any writing or script or imagery on 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:28.920 them that was all on the back side. And it 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.079 always looks like, yeah, how does anybody see the reflection 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:35.360 in this? Oh? Okay? Yeah? Looking at the other yeah, 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.439 but but certainly this would be the side with the 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.480 most most of the eye catching decoration. This would be 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.679 the side that had birds or dragons or depictions of deities, 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:50.320 and sometimes good luck wishes were also inscribed there. Now, 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:55.360 the two different philosophers that that Klein was looking at 0:10:55.400 --> 0:11:00.960 here were Dallas philosophers Jean Gi and Confucian philosophy for China. 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:05.920 They each had their own separate worldviews, but they seem 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.640 to come together on the idea of of how we 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:14.720 might view the shin which client translates his heart mind. 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.640 But I think we can also translate it as his 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.680 intention or center or core. But I think heart mind 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.800 is seems to be a pretty strong translation, you know, 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.640 the sort of center of being and contemplation. But both 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.080 of these philosophers tended to look at ways in which 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:35.240 this heart mind might best resemble a mirror, that it 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:38.560 might be like a reflecting pool. Oh yeah, this seems 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.840 to be something that that turns up in a lot 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.280 of thought about mirrors throughout the world is that the 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.839 mirror is often seen as a a way to see 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.480 one's true self, maybe to see the part of you 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:55.040 that is integral. Yeah. So, so Jeong Gi wrote that 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:59.520 that a sage's heart mind should quote in stillness is 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.320 the mirror of heaven and earth, the glass of the 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.760 ten thousand things. And and I'll break down what all 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.600 of this means in just a second. But but Shinja, 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.000 on the other hand, wrote that the heart mind bus 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.520 must be like a mirror in order to fully contemplate 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.320 the way. So the use of the mirror metaphor here 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.600 seems to largely revolve around, of course, the reflective qualities 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:27.559 of water um and each each of these different philosophers 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.760 kind of uses a different version of that. I think. 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.640 With in the Dallas sense, you see more of this 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.319 use of a natural body like the ocean or a 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.880 lake or a pond or something, while the Confucian model 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.719 that is employed here has more of a uh, more 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.320 of a like a man made reflective pool, like a 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.720 basin of water that you might have inside of a 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.000 house or some sort of a domicile in order to 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.480 view your reflection, something you might use for self care, 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.040 that sort of thing. Sure, so the idea here is 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.840 that the surface of the water must be still in 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:04.040 worded to more perfectly reflective viewer's face or, in the 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.640 case of something in a more natural model, the brilliance 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.760 of the sky in the mountains. Now. Client goes on 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.319 to discuss the history and understanding of mirrors and Chinese culture, 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:16.640 and I found this was this really interesting. So one 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:18.240 of the things that they point out is that while 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.080 in modern times we tend to think of mirrors as 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:25.920 passive uh, to the ancient Chinese mirrors, especially metal mirrors, 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:29.120 especially like those bronze mirrors we were discussing, they were 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:34.960 seen as quote active responsive objects. So there they are 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:39.280 things that respond to our world. Um an understanding that 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:41.480 is um you know. There was also linked to the 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:47.160 observation that mirrors had the ability to gather and produce. Oh, 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.760 this is very interesting because it reminds me of the 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.040 the alternate and you could argue physically incorrect model of 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.480 the eye, which you know, it was common to believe 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.040 in the ancient world that the eye was not just 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:02.120 a passive receptor of life, but actually sent something out 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.760 to that retrieved the image and brought it back. Uh. 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:07.440 And I guess you know, you could argue that the 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.120 eye is not in fact totally passive because the eye moves, 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:14.120 it focuses, it increases or decreases the aperture that allows 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:17.199 light in um. But but it it is at least 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:20.760 only receiving light. But it was natural for people to 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:24.160 think throughout history that the eye was going out and 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.720 getting images, it was sending something. It was like beaming 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.720 out the power of sight. Yeah, and in the for 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:36.520 the ancient Chinese, this apparently was also compounded by observations 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:38.760 of what you could do with a mirror. So on 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.800 one hand, you could take a mirror, you could focus sunlight, 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.160 and you could produce fire. And it was also known 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:50.520 that a mirror left in the moonlight would gather condensation. So, uh, 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:55.640 this is interesting because we're talking about the generation of 0:14:55.920 --> 0:15:00.240 fire or the collection of water and water and are 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.040 are the elemental essence of yin and yang, the dual 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.960 energies of the cosmos. Wow quote this is from Klein. 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.360 The fact that mirrors appeared to draw these substances from 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:14.240 the Sun and moon reinforced the cosmological power that was 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.840 already associated with them. Well, you know, this makes me 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.400 think of yet another way that that it could be 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.440 natural to assume that a mirror has a gathering and 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:27.000 production power, which is that by making a mirror, for example, concave, 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.040 you can give it magnifying power. And in a way, 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.600 it's hard not to see a lens or a mirror 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.840 that has magnifying power as in some way going out 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:40.480 and gathering, because what it is quite literally doing is 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.040 taking something that is invisible to the naked eye and 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.440 making it visible. You know. Um, not not to jump 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.600 around too much here, but this reminds me of something 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:54.120 I read in m. Geraldine Pinch's book on Egyptian mythology 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:58.840 concerning the eye of Raw. She writes, the ancient Egyptian 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:03.120 word for i uh you sounded like a word for 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.640 doing or acting. This may be why the eyes of 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:10.440 deities are associated with divine power as its most uh 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:14.360 interventional So I keep coming back to that as well. 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:15.880 That's kind of been in the background as we've been 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.000 discussing that, you know, the idea of like what is 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.560 what is a mirror doing? And is it passive or 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.160 is it active? Yeah, I mean I guess it depends 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.040 on your definition of passive or active there, because obviously, 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.600 again like a concave mirror that produces say a telescope image. 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.840 You know, most of our most powerful telescopes today are 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:37.480 not based on on transparent refractive lenses, but they're based 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.880 on mirrors. The Hubble telescope has a gigantic mirror in it, 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.480 and though I think it is meant with a slightly 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:48.480 different connotation. What even astronomers talk about these mirrors quote 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.440 gathering light, what they mean is, you know, they are 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.600 taking an amount of information that is that is too 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.480 diffuse for our eyes to make any sense of, but 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.520 then turning it into an image that is record ignizable 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.200 to us. Yeah. I guess one of the things that 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.359 that that I find super interesting about all this is 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:10.920 that if you do see the mirror as as more 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:14.720 active as opposed to passive, I feel like perhaps you're 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.800 more inclined to engage in metaphors for the self based 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.040 on that device, you know, Like for instance, we've talked 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.280 about the idea of thinking about your brain as a 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.960 in your visual system as being like a security camera. 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.920 Like a security camera is um you know, to a 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.480 certain extent, is acting passively, but it is acting, you know, 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.479 it is it is, it is doing something. And if 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.359 it is doing something in the world, then perhaps we're 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:42.000 more more inclined to compare ourselves to it, or compare 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:46.000 some aspect of our our our physiology to it um. 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:51.120 And so likewise we see that reflected in the Chinese 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:55.920 view here um geng Gi writes, perfect persons use their 0:17:55.960 --> 0:18:01.640 heart mind like mirrors, going after nothing, welcomeing nothing, responding 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.520 but not storing. Therefore they can win out over things 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:09.040 and not hurt themselves. So again, the idea is that 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:13.440 a mirror is not passive. It's active, but it's responsive. 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.280 It does not in sight uh anything, and it also 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.760 does not store the images that it responds with. It 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.800 lets them go. And this of course brings me back 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.400 to this, you know, this loose metaphor that we often 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:30.040 employ of the video camera or the camera itself as 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:32.600 a technological metaphor for how we perceive the world and 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.600 think about it and remember things. Um, you know, the 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.359 more I wonder if if ultimately that's like more of 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.639 a harmful metaphor to engage in when we think about 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.280 how we engage in the world, maybe we should think 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.639 of ourselves more as a mirror. Well, I mean, we 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.479 know that the reality is in fact somewhere in between. Like, 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.400 I agree that it's totally a harmful metaphor to think of, say, 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.240 your memory of your vision of events as like a 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.080 video camera, because the video camera is, you know, with 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.800 some constraints, you could think of it as objective in 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:05.439 a way that your memory just is not. Though then again, 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.720 your memory is real, like it is storing something that 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.640 is based on events you actually witnessed. It's just not 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.960 objective in the way that a video recording is. Yeah, 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.160 now another interesting bit here's that Jean. She also writes 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:22.359 of mirrors illuminating, and Klein writes that mirrors in early 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:26.200 China were thought to illuminate and reveal objects as well. 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:28.840 So that's another spin on the Uh, you know that 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:37.840 the active aspect of the mirror. Now, one of the 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:40.879 quotes you read earlier from Jeng Gi had something in 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.680 it that I didn't understand. It was the quote about 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.199 in stillness is the mirror of heaven and earth the 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:51.120 glass of the ten thousand things or the ten thousands things? Well, 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:55.000 what are the ten thousand or ten thousands things? So 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.920 it's possible I'm I'm missing some like more esoteric understand 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.480 ending of this, But based on reading Client's article, my 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.439 understanding is that it's the idea like, these are the 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:08.760 things reflected in the mirror, all the things of the world. 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.520 And and what's crucial here is that the more the 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.879 heart mind is like a mirror, the more one sense 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.040 of self fades away. The more I am a mirror, 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.960 the more I am just a reflection of the ten 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:27.040 thousand things in the world as opposed to myself, you know, um, which, 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.640 which I find rather beautiful, really flows into this idea 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.880 of you know, of of of losing oneself in the now, 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.960 of losing oneself in the sort of you know, unlanguaged 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:41.359 contemplation of one's immediate surroundings. Oh yeah, that sense of 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:45.200 by becoming the mirror, you become the world. That's the 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.720 sense of oneness sought after by so many different religious 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:52.159 traditions and types of mysticism. Now, shin Jo was not 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.879 a dallast. Again was it was a confusion different views 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:57.879 of the world, But again they were mostly aligned in 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:01.720 this idea of the mirror like aspect of the heart mind. Um. 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.600 The idea that perfectly still waters allow one to see 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:10.160 details of one's reflection in the water, but the slightest breeze, uh, 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:13.840 he writes, can both disturb the surface and stir the 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.040 silt that has sunk to the bottom. Uh. Tilting the 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:21.040 pan likewise can make the water and reflection murky. Uh 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.120 so Uh. Client points out that, yeah, that the pan 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:26.560 of water metaphor here is more in line with self 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.720 cultivation practices than you know, the natural world. Um. And 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:33.000 I guess that I kind of took it to mean 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.359 this is largely just sort of creative choices based uh, 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.199 you know, based in the writings of the individual philosophers, 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.639 and not necessarily something that is like Taoism versus U 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:46.119 could confusism. But I could be wrong on that. And 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:49.359 of course they're not alone in of course employing mirror 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.840 metaphors as well. Discuss a little bit more mirror metaphors. 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:56.720 It's like spread like wildfire through through our language and 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:00.680 through our philosophies and our literature. Um And also points 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:05.000 out that Western thinkers, including nineteenth century Danish philosopher sore 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:10.520 In Kyrka Guard and century American philosopher Richard Rorty Uh, 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:14.680 they all also employed similar metaphors to those of these 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:16.679 ancient Chinese thinkers. And if you want to read more 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:20.240 about how they compare to each other, I highly recommend 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:22.360 looking up that client article. I believe I was able 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:25.159 to pull it up on jay store um as you know, 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:27.840 just free access if you're logged in. But it's it's 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:30.120 funny that as much as people are trying to sort 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:33.360 of come up with metaphors to live by and uh 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:36.520 and imagery that allows them to shape their own behavior, 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:39.119 on the basis of thinking about a mirror, it seems 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.520