Speaker 1: Loud and Quiet Presents Midnight Chats.
Speaker 2: Good evening and thanks for streaming or downloading this new
Speaker 2: episode of Midnight Chats. It's a dark, damp, bitterly cold,
Speaker 2: thoroughly miserable January night here in London. As I introduce
Speaker 2: you to tonight's guest on the podcast. Before I do that,
Speaker 2: thank you to all of you that tuned in and
Speaker 2: listened to Craig David on our first episode of twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: I'm pleased to report that Stewart has gone out and
Speaker 2: bought some new Rebot classics and booked his flight to
Speaker 2: spend the summer in Ibetha with Craig. So I'm glad
Speaker 2: that that's got a happy ending. Check out that conversation
Speaker 2: wherever you're listening to this right now if you haven't
Speaker 2: listened already, and do subscribe whilst you're there. It sounds
Speaker 2: like Craig has got a very exciting life, and my
Speaker 2: guest on Midnight Chats this time has just come off
Speaker 2: the back of a very exciting week a very exciting
Speaker 2: weekend to be honest. Last Sunday I was pretty thrilled
Speaker 2: to get through three loads of dirty washing. That felt good,
Speaker 2: That was the highlight of my weekend. But my guest
Speaker 2: scored a top forty position in the UK charts with
Speaker 2: his band's debut album. Right now, as I look, Songs
Speaker 2: of Praise is nestled between David Bowie and Stormsy up there,
Speaker 2: so excited he should be. He is Charlie Steen, the
Speaker 2: twenty year old frontman of South London band Shame. They're
Speaker 2: the group you've probably heard about that are here to
Speaker 2: save British guitar music, or at the very least to
Speaker 2: make it a bit more exciting. That's what people have
Speaker 2: been saying about them anyway. Their success certainly isn't an
Speaker 2: overnight thing. Some of Shane met when they were just
Speaker 2: eight years old and they went to school together classmates,
Speaker 2: and the band formed primarily when they're in their mid
Speaker 2: teens around a pub called the Queen's Head in South London,
Speaker 2: where some of their first shows took place at three
Speaker 2: am and they got up and still made it to
Speaker 2: the geography class or whatever it was the next day
Speaker 2: on time. They are an amazing live band and the
Speaker 2: five of them played an exhausting amount of shows in
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, roughly one hundred and fifty and the damaging
Speaker 2: effects of that. Charlie goes into in detail in the
Speaker 2: chat that you were about to hear. Now, Charlie came
Speaker 2: to our offices just a couple of days ago, knocked
Speaker 2: back a couple of strong coffees and smoked a couple
Speaker 2: of rollies before recording this. I certainly caught up with
Speaker 2: him in a memorable moment, because, as older artists will
Speaker 2: tell you, you only ever get the chance to experience the
Speaker 2: feeling of releasing your debut album once in your career,
Speaker 2: and Shame, by the sounds of it, have been enjoying
Speaker 2: every second of that, and so they should do. Just finally,
Speaker 2: as I sit here with the news channel on my
Speaker 2: TV scrolling silently in the background, the death of one
Speaker 2: of music's great mavericks, one of the great antagonists and
Speaker 2: unapologetic innovators, Markie Smith from The Fall. His death was
Speaker 2: announced just a few hours ago, So tonight I'll pour
Speaker 2: a drink for Mark. That seems apt. As one uncompromising
Speaker 2: band exits the world in music, hopefully it's just the
Speaker 2: start for another. So enjoy this. This is Charlie Steen
Speaker 2: from Shame on Midnight Chats. Charlie, welcome to Midnight Chats.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 2: Hopefully you're joining us at what will be a memorable
Speaker 2: period for Shame, because last week, just a few days
Speaker 2: ago in fact, you released your debut album, Songs of
Speaker 2: Praise YEP. So what was that week actually?
Speaker 3: Like, I think we were all like super fucking surprised
Speaker 3: at the reaction that we got, and it was sort of,
Speaker 3: you know, like above and beyond what we could have expected.
Speaker 3: You know, we've said this before, and we always want
Speaker 3: to have this underlying humor to the band and sort
Speaker 3: of the image and when we're on stage, and just
Speaker 3: the fact that we charted in the top forty was
Speaker 3: just so sort of funny and surreal to us, you know,
Speaker 3: especially you know, three years ago, we would have been
Speaker 3: upstairs at the Queen's Head to sort of like where
Speaker 3: we are now. I wasn't really nervous about putting out
Speaker 3: the album, and I don't think many of the people
Speaker 3: in the band were either, because it's it's been such
Speaker 3: a strange period of time leading up to it, and
Speaker 3: we've had these songs for what seems like a while,
Speaker 3: and you know, the last year played like one hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty gigs and forty seven festivals in three months,
Speaker 3: and they've been just playing these songs over and over.
Speaker 3: But it's just nice to have like it's I think
Speaker 3: the most satisfying thing is to just have like a
Speaker 3: piece of work just out there available to the public.
Speaker 3: And it does feel like quite exposed. You know, you
Speaker 3: do feel quite exposed, But then again, you know that
Speaker 3: means you're probably doing something right.
Speaker 2: So if you do look at the UK Top forty
Speaker 2: chart at the moment in between David Bowie and Stormzy
Speaker 2: his songs of praise, just why do you why does
Speaker 2: that feel so surreal? Just because you never anticipated that
Speaker 2: something like that would happen. You never thought you'd be
Speaker 2: in a band that would reach those you know.
Speaker 3: No, I think when we started we weren't, you know,
Speaker 3: we were very much like a natural band. We were
Speaker 3: never manufactured where we sort of sat down and decided
Speaker 3: what image we wanted to project, what music we wanted
Speaker 3: to make, and we've only ever sort of taking it
Speaker 3: kind of like one step at a time, with the
Speaker 3: exception probably being that we've always wanted to do bricks
Speaker 3: and academy. That's sort of like the dream of the band,
Speaker 3: But we just never you know, it never sort of
Speaker 3: really crossed our mind. I can't say why, Like probably
Speaker 3: just because of what popular music is at the moment
Speaker 3: and the sort of like state this in we just
Speaker 3: thought it wouldn't have been achieved. But it's weird that
Speaker 3: it's happened, and it just sort of like felt really
Speaker 3: surreal and it was a good night. But that whole week,
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, like it was just one abnormality
Speaker 3: after the other, like when we got on the front
Speaker 3: page of the Guardian and like, you know, all these
Speaker 3: different things happened, and the response has just been amazing
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: So is it hard not to get carried away with
Speaker 2: that stuff? Or do you You already mentioned that you'd
Speaker 2: maybe take it with a pinch of salt.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think we always try and walk
Speaker 3: the tightrope between like degrading ourselves and praising ourselves, and
Speaker 3: you know, we don't want to lean too far to
Speaker 3: either side. We just want to kind of keep it
Speaker 3: in the middle. But yeah, very much. I think I
Speaker 3: think the most important thing is being being in a band.
Speaker 3: For anyone, you can sort of get so wrapped up
Speaker 3: in your own wall and the world and just sort
Speaker 3: of be like, you know, staring at the painting too close,
Speaker 3: and it's important to sort of like take a step
Speaker 3: back and just sort of like, you know, seeing our
Speaker 3: mates who just sort of like do not you know,
Speaker 3: like you know, have jobs or go to UNI or whatever.
Speaker 3: It makes you feel a bit more like human and
Speaker 3: realizes that, you know, what you're doing is very much
Speaker 3: its own little world.
Speaker 2: Do you think it would be easy to get carried
Speaker 2: away with that stuff?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can see, you know kind of. I think,
Speaker 3: you know, I think this period of like you know,
Speaker 3: at the moment of being in a band is so
Speaker 3: maybe unlike unlike anything before, just probably because of like
Speaker 3: you know, money in terms of like record sales and stuff,
Speaker 3: like to be in the top forty now you only
Speaker 3: need to sell a few thousand records, whereas in twenty
Speaker 3: years ago you'd sell a few you know, you'd sell
Speaker 3: tens of thousands of records or one hundred thousand records
Speaker 3: in a week. And I think that's changed. You know,
Speaker 3: I said it before, I've said it before in an interview,
Speaker 3: but that isn't this like preconceived image of like a
Speaker 3: rock star lifestyle anymore. You know, we're not being driven
Speaker 3: around No, people aren't getting in limos and lights, staying
Speaker 3: in five star hotels less of like the Arctic monkeys
Speaker 3: or food fires or whatever. So I think it's I
Speaker 3: think that's good because you're sort of so close to
Speaker 3: reality at the same time, and I think that's the
Speaker 3: most important thing.
Speaker 2: Did you celebrate when the result came in? Then when
Speaker 2: you did make it into the top forty, did you
Speaker 2: allow yourself a moment just to sort of be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that was an achievement.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we did, But that was also the day, the
Speaker 3: day that news came in, was it had been a
Speaker 3: whole week since our album came out. I mean, we
Speaker 3: basically celebrated every single day that week, but that yeah,
Speaker 3: that Friday was like the heaviest we sort of got
Speaker 3: and it got pretty messy, but yeah, it's a great
Speaker 3: I mean, we got kicked out of the Spoons that
Speaker 3: night because we turned up at the Crown and Steps,
Speaker 3: which is on Brixton Hill, and we thought it would
Speaker 3: be funny to like post on our Instagram story that
Speaker 3: you know, like our table number and the Spoons were
Speaker 3: in and see if anyone. So this guy comes over
Speaker 3: with like he comes over, what do you come over?
Speaker 3: With first a pot of peas, and then he came
Speaker 3: back over with a Friday Egg and he's all right, listen, mates,
Speaker 3: I don't know what the fuck you think you're doing,
Speaker 3: but this isn't funny. And we were like what and
Speaker 3: he was like, I've got fifteen orders to roch a sauce,
Speaker 3: four pints of milk, and like three bud light and
Speaker 3: seven more pots of tea and this has all happened
Speaker 3: in four minutes. He was like, I'm gonna bring you beers,
Speaker 3: but that's it. And then he brought us like a
Speaker 3: bud Light or something like that, and he was like,
Speaker 3: I've just had twenty more orders through for milk, and
Speaker 3: he was like, get the fuck out of the pub,
Speaker 3: and we were just kind of, you know, we were
Speaker 3: already pretty fucked and we were like, you know, just
Speaker 3: couldn't be wanted to argue and probably being a bit unfair.
Speaker 3: On that guy's Friday night.
Speaker 2: We had Wesley Gonzerliz to the podcast for and he
Speaker 2: did something similar on his birthday where he posted his
Speaker 2: table number in the Wetherspoons and you can go on
Speaker 2: their app and order.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's wherever you are in the world.
Speaker 2: So he was saying that it would be like a
Speaker 2: tray full of shots of whiskey or something. We turned
Speaker 2: up and it'd be like, oh, Tony and Chili's just
Speaker 2: brought you. Yeah. Yeah, it might even have been the
Speaker 2: same weather since, but he definitely left the night worse
Speaker 2: the way you said.
Speaker 3: We didn't even get that far. I don't think the
Speaker 3: people who are ordering it were like generous enough to
Speaker 3: give us shots of whiskey. It was all just you know,
Speaker 3: we literally had five minutes of it and there was
Speaker 3: like forty orders for all of these different things. Yeah,
Speaker 3: only one of the fried eggs, milk peas, sa sauce,
Speaker 3: only one of them was a pint and it was
Speaker 3: bud Light, And so we just had to leave, like
Speaker 3: and just like delete it off our story.
Speaker 2: People have obviously heard the album now, but in the
Speaker 2: run up to it, there were a lot of really
Speaker 2: positive reviews, like I haven't seen a debut album review
Speaker 2: like that for quite a while. What does that feel like?
Speaker 2: Basically does that kind of give you like a feel
Speaker 2: good factor?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I'm not going to say that, you know,
Speaker 3: I think we'd be lying to ourselves, and like'sly to
Speaker 3: myself if we sort of like dismissed all of that
Speaker 3: and sort of you know, like didn't didn't take it
Speaker 3: into consideration because it was you know, as much as
Speaker 3: you know you can say what you want about critics,
Speaker 3: it is sort of a feeling of confirmation for someone
Speaker 3: to actually, you know, like what you've created and it
Speaker 3: is all well and good to say, you know, whatever
Speaker 3: I've done, I don't care because I'm happy with it.
Speaker 3: But you know, if everyone's saying your album's shit, it's
Speaker 3: probably gonna get you down a bit. But no, I mean,
Speaker 3: it was just I mean, that was happening in sort
Speaker 3: of like the weeks the week's like the week or
Speaker 3: weeks leading up to the album coming out, and it
Speaker 3: was just fucking weird. I mean. We also we got
Speaker 3: a grant fifty grand, which we didn't have to pay back,
Speaker 3: so we were able to put up like billboards and
Speaker 3: Chube posters and like all the central stations like Waterloo
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. I think that was fucking weird
Speaker 3: because it's.
Speaker 2: Sort of like you know, seeing your face and the tube.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I think it's just like the confirmation
Speaker 3: that you know, because we you know, we work so
Speaker 3: fucking hard. Like, and yes, there are a lot of
Speaker 3: factors of luck. And I'm not saying that we're the
Speaker 3: only band who works as hard as we do, because
Speaker 3: there are certainly others who do just as do just
Speaker 3: as much work. But it was nice to just sort
Speaker 3: of see it like finally paying off, like after years
Speaker 3: and years of doing like you know, all the slogs
Speaker 3: and all the fucking shitty gigs.
Speaker 2: And I think also four out of five features I've
Speaker 2: read about Shame in the last three or four months
Speaker 2: have described you as Britain's most citing new guitar band. Yeah,
Speaker 2: does that sit well with you?
Speaker 3: Well? I mean, you know that's temporary, isn't it. That's
Speaker 3: gonna be the nextperience of new guitar band or like
Speaker 3: Tomorrow's they Paper or whatever, like I think, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: I think I think the thing that's the most funny
Speaker 3: about that is like some of the comments being like
Speaker 3: this is an original, like this has been done before,
Speaker 3: and you know you're kind of reading it like obviously,
Speaker 3: Like you know, we always say that our music is
Speaker 3: like derivative, and we know it's not original. We know
Speaker 3: we're not sparking a new fucking genre of music. That
Speaker 3: for some reason nobody else has been capable of doing
Speaker 3: for the past thousands of years. So, like I think
Speaker 3: the difference is is like at the moment, all the
Speaker 3: music you could argue in this sort of like incestuous
Speaker 3: London scene at the moment, or you know, further out
Speaker 3: across America and UK and European Europe. It's so like
Speaker 3: unique in how derivative it is because it's so influenced
Speaker 3: by we have such a large amount of like background
Speaker 3: of music to draw from and you know, loads of
Speaker 3: other things and you know, sort of shape it into
Speaker 3: what it is at the moment. And for you know,
Speaker 3: for all this type of music we can you know,
Speaker 3: being this age that I'm twenty, Like I can listen
Speaker 3: to the Stooges, I can listen to Bowie, but I'll
Speaker 3: never live through it like ever. And so you know,
Speaker 3: for us to be able to go to gigs and
Speaker 3: experience like a simile similar level of like passion and
Speaker 3: like you know, heightened adrenaline is you know, it feels
Speaker 3: new to us. Like you know, I remember seeing I
Speaker 3: remember seeing Fat White Family for the first time when
Speaker 3: I was fifteen, and I was just like a stone
Speaker 3: of kid I was actually just walking through to leave,
Speaker 3: like because I went there to see King Crawl at
Speaker 3: the Queen's Head and it was just like, you don't
Speaker 3: you almost don't think that music like that can exist
Speaker 3: anymore because of how sort of like driven out it is.
Speaker 3: But that's why it's so interesting, you know, it's fascinating,
Speaker 3: you know, the psychology behind nobody who starts a guitar
Speaker 3: band depending on their ego. I don't think, certainly for
Speaker 3: us sort of imagined like financial stability or like success
Speaker 3: or all of the things that came along with the
Speaker 3: image of like the seventies. But you still do it
Speaker 3: because you know, you're driven by passion and by interest
Speaker 3: and and that sort of like speaks for itself. Like
Speaker 3: there are a lot of bands we know who do
Speaker 3: like amazing music and still have like a Saturday job
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, like you know, weekend job and
Speaker 3: still work and still struggle to pay the rent. And
Speaker 3: for that for that reason, it's you know, it's fucking horrible.
Speaker 3: And that's sort of another subject to go into that
Speaker 3: there's no funding from like the UK for the majority
Speaker 3: of artists in comparison to Europe, and I think, you know,
Speaker 3: I think that's a major problem because like UK.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, that's fine. I think that's actually a topics
Speaker 2: like come up before though, how there's a different type
Speaker 2: of appreciation for the arts in the UK. There's not
Speaker 2: so much financial support. Benjamin Clemensine, who won the Mercury
Speaker 2: a few years ago, was on our podcast talking about
Speaker 2: how he feels that when he's performing in places like France,
Speaker 2: there's just a general there's more of a respect that
Speaker 2: goes along.
Speaker 3: It's fucking amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you are creating art, then you automatically demand
Speaker 2: a certain level of respect, whereas perhaps that doesn't automatically
Speaker 2: come in the UK.
Speaker 3: I don't even think it's I don't even think it's
Speaker 3: respect anymore. It's just like it's like human rights, like
Speaker 3: you know, like I remember, there is like if you're
Speaker 3: in a band in the UK, you can never or
Speaker 3: America maybe you can never beat that moment of going
Speaker 3: and playing a European show for the first time. I
Speaker 3: remember we got well first European show. We're playing an
Speaker 3: Amsterdam London Calling Festival and we got twelve hour megabus
Speaker 3: there with all of our gear and within Amstam for
Speaker 3: eight hours before.
Speaker 2: We guitars, drum get everything on the bus.
Speaker 3: No, they had a drum kit and they had apps,
Speaker 3: but it was like guitars and like you know, pedals
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. And we had eight hours once
Speaker 3: we got there before we had to get the Mega
Speaker 3: bus back. There's also the time I had scabies as well,
Speaker 3: and I remember we were turned up to the venue
Speaker 3: and we were all, you know, like fucking knackd and
Speaker 3: sleep deprived. But and we sort of walked in and
Speaker 3: they took us to a green room and we were like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, is there like any chance like a beer
Speaker 3: And they were like, yeah, yeah, it's in the fridge.
Speaker 3: And we were like, oh cool, so do we get
Speaker 3: like tickets or is it shared whatever? They were like no, no,
Speaker 3: that the fridge is yours. And it just sort of
Speaker 3: like you can't believe it because it's all like it's
Speaker 3: taxed in across like France and European countries. They all
Speaker 3: have a different percentage of tax that will be taken
Speaker 3: out of the band's pay and go back into funding
Speaker 3: independent venues and making sure that you know, they can
Speaker 3: get artists that they want to be there, and making
Speaker 3: sure the rider's good and that you can pay for
Speaker 3: hotels for the bands to be in and it doesn't
Speaker 3: you know, you can't understand why that hasn't happened in
Speaker 3: the UK, but you know, there might be something to
Speaker 3: be said about the fact that even though that's never happened,
Speaker 3: the UK has like undeniably had the most amazing music
Speaker 3: come out of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, considering the size of the population, and
Speaker 2: it's British music throughout history is punched above its weight
Speaker 2: when it has to be able to rejuice innovative new artists.
Speaker 2: I think that's that's something that would be really proud of.
Speaker 2: But I do agree that you can go other places
Speaker 2: and experience something very different. The feel can be very different.
Speaker 2: You mentioned the London scene, the kind of South London
Speaker 2: scene that has been pointed towards in various press, and
Speaker 2: I'm sure you get asked about it in interviews a lot.
Speaker 2: How real and how like tangible is that? Do you
Speaker 2: know a lot of the bands does it feel like
Speaker 2: a genuine, like real community, Because often these things are
Speaker 2: scenes can be created in a press world to effectively
Speaker 2: just group like minded artists that are close together into
Speaker 2: one place. But genuine thing is that, right?
Speaker 3: The thing is about we all, like everyone involved sort
Speaker 3: of like hates that sort of like coin term of
Speaker 3: the scene or whatever, even though I can understand it
Speaker 3: from like, you know, someone's perspective. I mean, I went
Speaker 3: to I did Drama with Lotti, lead singer of Goat
Speaker 3: go At sixth form. I went to I did a
Speaker 3: Foundation in Fine Art at Camelwell with Asher singer Sorry.
Speaker 3: I think we're us in Goat Girl are the only
Speaker 3: band actually from South London, you know, like other people
Speaker 3: from North and East, like everyone is just friends. And
Speaker 3: I think the difference with other like quote unquote scenes
Speaker 3: you know in the past, is that every band in
Speaker 3: this category has their own like different unique sounds, you know,
Speaker 3: going from like happy Meal to Sorry to Goat gol
Speaker 3: and so I think the only thing that links us
Speaker 3: together is our age. You know, when we started their bands,
Speaker 3: like Childhood, the Fat White Family, like they were still
Speaker 3: like new when we were when we were young, but
Speaker 3: we weren't the same age as some when we were
Speaker 3: experiencing like different things because when we were seventeen, they
Speaker 3: were off touring, you know, like they were doing the
Speaker 3: festival circuits and stuff like that. And when we found
Speaker 3: you know, we started this night at the women are
Speaker 3: called Chimney Shitters when we were when we were like
Speaker 3: it must have been like seventeen or eighteen, and that
Speaker 3: was when we just decided to get like all of
Speaker 3: our mates down like and you know, like majority of
Speaker 3: our friends don't like I'm music. But we started meeting
Speaker 3: bands like Shark Dentists, Monk Goat Girl played like go
Speaker 3: Gogley that played our first night, our second night, and
Speaker 3: it was just it then became this thing of we've
Speaker 3: known each other, all of us. Everyone everyone doing music
Speaker 3: around sort of like the Wimmill area that's now moved
Speaker 3: to the Five Bells in New Cross, like that's where
Speaker 3: the new bands are coming, like Peeping Drexels, like everyone. Yeah,
Speaker 3: everyone's just good mates and we've kind of like grown,
Speaker 3: you know, like grown through this period together. You know.
Speaker 3: We started out playing those same nights and now everyone's
Speaker 3: like doing an album or touring or like doing the
Speaker 3: same festivals. So it's good, you know. I think the
Speaker 3: nicest thing is when you can turn up to a
Speaker 3: festival and you actually have like friends there that you
Speaker 3: know and you can like share something with them rather
Speaker 3: than like you know, with your mates, back home in London.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about twenty seventeen and playing
Speaker 2: all the shows that you did, but before I do
Speaker 2: in terms of the dynamic of shame, people that don't
Speaker 2: necessarily know you are old school friends, like you know
Speaker 2: some of the guys in the band since you were
Speaker 2: eight years old. Yeah, So what was it like back
Speaker 2: in the school days? Was it a similar dynamics it
Speaker 2: is now? Is there still like the gobby one and
Speaker 2: still like the kind of like shy one and what
Speaker 2: was it like?
Speaker 3: Every everyone in the band has like very individual personalities.
Speaker 3: They we're all pretty different to each other, but it
Speaker 3: all kind of works when we're together. Like that's what important.
Speaker 3: That's you know, that's what's so important when it comes
Speaker 3: to writing our songs. I don't do any of the
Speaker 3: I don't do any of the music. I only do
Speaker 3: the lyrics. But everyone has to be in the same
Speaker 3: room at the same time writing together and sort of
Speaker 3: like you know, Sean is the one who probably brings
Speaker 3: in like the most ideas, but like you'll start off
Speaker 3: and like Sean or Eddie or Josh playing something and
Speaker 3: it always has been the same. And I think that's
Speaker 3: you know, like the strongest and weakest point of the band.
Speaker 3: How long we've known each other for it's sort of
Speaker 3: I know this might sound cheesy and like, and it
Speaker 3: might be, you know, for lack of belt, for lack
Speaker 3: of a better expression, but it kind of has gone
Speaker 3: beyond friendship now, and it's sort of like at that
Speaker 3: stage where we're just like, you know, you can say
Speaker 3: whatever you want to each other and you don't even
Speaker 3: need to speak to sort of be able to communicate.
Speaker 3: Of course, we fucking like argue, and of course they
Speaker 3: are like sometimes we're getting fist fights and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: but like that's only natural when you're on the road
Speaker 3: as much as we were last year. You know, the
Speaker 3: music industry is sort of like the like keeping mental
Speaker 3: illness alive. You know, you're just like always like sleep deprived,
Speaker 3: like always like hungry, like always drinking, like and obviously
Speaker 3: this is a choice of like immaturity. You might drink
Speaker 3: to sort of like get over it or do other
Speaker 3: things to like sort of deal with it, but you know,
Speaker 3: obviously you're gonna go a bit mental. But it always
Speaker 3: you know, we've never we've never had an argument so
Speaker 3: bad we can't resolve it, and it wouldn't be you
Speaker 3: know what. I was with Larry Love, the lead singer
Speaker 3: of the Alabama Free, the other day in the pub
Speaker 3: and he said the best line, he said, never trust
Speaker 3: a happy band.
Speaker 2: Right he was. Was he one of the wise old
Speaker 2: stages that you got to meet in the Queen's Head
Speaker 2: in South London? He was, it would be there with
Speaker 2: a sort of a wise word.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well we always joked it. It was like he
Speaker 3: was like the great because it would be like me
Speaker 3: because it was me Lis and Larry Love in the
Speaker 3: pub and I'm like, you know, I was like first generation.
Speaker 3: Lis is second. We say Larry's fourth, which he hated.
Speaker 3: But yeah, Larr was definitely one of those people because
Speaker 3: with Adamama Free, they like the first of all their
Speaker 3: old school fucking characters. They can handle more than any
Speaker 3: you know, you think the fucking you think like bands
Speaker 3: like you know, fat Whites or whatever, like do a
Speaker 3: lot of drugs and have a lot of heavy nights,
Speaker 3: or nobody can do as much as a nobody, nobody
Speaker 3: can touch it. Like they are old school hard and
Speaker 3: fucking like musicians and workers and like they they definitely
Speaker 3: like gave a lot of insight and they were also characters.
Speaker 3: And also they've been a band for twenty years and
Speaker 3: are still playing and you have to, you know, like
Speaker 3: the amount of respect to have to anyone who still
Speaker 3: drives that passion and still works at it. And they
Speaker 3: were doing you know, like they were doing stuff like
Speaker 3: they blend in electronic music with guitar music and country music,
Speaker 3: which was quite for at that time. Like I might
Speaker 3: be speaking ill informed, but something that's quite new you
Speaker 3: and like you know, genius. But the yeah, there was
Speaker 3: definitely a load of but I'd say it was like
Speaker 3: people like Larry Love was the person we saw the most,
Speaker 3: but there was also Segs who was in the Ruts.
Speaker 3: He was the basis for the Ruts. There was me
Speaker 3: and Sean once had a night with the basis for
Speaker 3: Stiff Little Fingers okay, who we used to which was
Speaker 3: so surreal for us because we used to listen to
Speaker 3: Stiff Little Things when me and Sean were ten in
Speaker 3: his room and then we you know, we just had
Speaker 3: a night with him with the queens in the kitchen
Speaker 3: and just could sort of like chat and chat and chat.
Speaker 3: And yeah, there were there were like other characters, but yeah,
Speaker 3: it was you got a lot of insight into the
Speaker 3: dark wide world of the music industry.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you're going into it maybe with your eyes
Speaker 2: more open than others with Yeah, how many shows Reckon
Speaker 2: you played last year?
Speaker 3: In the end, So we did forty seven festivals in
Speaker 3: three months, and I'm going to say, I mean we
Speaker 3: must have been touching like one hundred and fifty gigs
Speaker 3: including the festivals.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, you mentioned like the preservation of your own
Speaker 2: mental health a moment ago. Yeah, how do you? I mean,
Speaker 2: where did you get to at the end twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: presumably pretty well exhausted?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, as I was telling you earlier, I
Speaker 3: had this. I had this month going from November into December,
Speaker 3: where you know, I was in America, Canada, eight different
Speaker 3: cities in Europe like all the time, playing shows and
Speaker 3: doing constant press like this was like ten interviews a
Speaker 3: day kind of press. And then we went on tour
Speaker 3: in Germany supporting a band called Girl who were like
Speaker 3: I just have to like quickly give them credit for
Speaker 3: being like the most understanding band we could have been with.
Speaker 3: But you know, like I was saying, it's weird because
Speaker 3: it's the only job where this was you know, it's
Speaker 3: the only job where you can be sort of like
Speaker 3: crying in a corner, like pale in Germany in the darkness,
Speaker 3: and like hungry, and you've thrown up twelve times that
Speaker 3: day and a promoter comes over and like pokes you
Speaker 3: in the chest, like move monkey, like get on stage,
Speaker 3: like you know, it's kind of like what are you doing?
Speaker 3: Like so I think, you know, like I was saying
Speaker 3: towards the end of we had to we had to
Speaker 3: cut that tour to like cut that tour short because
Speaker 3: I started having panic attacks. And then I came back
Speaker 3: and I just sort of like it took me a
Speaker 3: little while to get back into you know, getting my
Speaker 3: mental health back and sort of like feeling human again.
Speaker 3: But I think it's just more. I think that was
Speaker 3: necessary to happen so that it can be prevented in
Speaker 3: the future, you know. I mean, I'd rather know more.
Speaker 3: It taught me a lot about myself as well, because,
Speaker 3: like I was saying to you, in summer, I was
Speaker 3: having a period where when We're doing all of those festivals,
Speaker 3: I'd be throwing up like from four to fourteen times
Speaker 3: in one day, and I just couldn't digest in the
Speaker 3: thing and it wasn't due to acid reflux. It was
Speaker 3: just due to like nervous exhaustion and anxiety. And so
Speaker 3: I kind of like found that out about myself and
Speaker 3: found ways to deal with it. I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: it gets to a point where we will drink a
Speaker 3: lot as a band and all sort of go out
Speaker 3: a lot, but you can't. You know, it's all well
Speaker 3: and good to sort of like have that image, but
Speaker 3: you can't do it, you know, you like, I don't
Speaker 3: know how you can do that for a year straight,
Speaker 3: like whilst you're on the road. It's fine if you
Speaker 3: can just sort of you know, like go back home
Speaker 3: and have a cup of tea and like go to
Speaker 3: bed or whatever. You know, you'd be out. You know,
Speaker 3: you go in Bristol to lock in at a pub
Speaker 3: after your gig and be up until nine in the
Speaker 3: morning and then get straight in a van and drive
Speaker 3: to leads and then sound check and then play. And
Speaker 3: that's sort of like what our tours were like for
Speaker 3: a period, for like quite a long period of time
Speaker 3: until it came to that like moment where it's like okay,
Speaker 3: you know, and especially for me, I was just like
Speaker 3: I just can't, like there's nothing I can do. I
Speaker 3: can't do the show, like I just can't like get
Speaker 3: up there. But you know, since then, like the show,
Speaker 3: you know, the shows have been doing in London and
Speaker 3: great and like it is, Yeah.
Speaker 2: What would you like to see happen with that? Because
Speaker 2: it is something that people seem to be talking more
Speaker 2: about in the music industry, like it's sort of more
Speaker 2: of an open debate that perhaps people didn't talk about
Speaker 2: in years gone by. So do you think I mean, one,
Speaker 2: obviously an important thing is to recognize what's happening to yourself.
Speaker 2: But also do you think that there should be more
Speaker 2: I don't know, understanding training from people that you know,
Speaker 2: if you're a tour manager or if you're a manager
Speaker 2: or press agent or whoever it might be that works
Speaker 2: directly with the band, just to be more aware that
Speaker 2: it can be incredibly full on and have a negative
Speaker 2: effect on the mental health.
Speaker 3: I mean, like with the team that we work with
Speaker 3: booking in just a acc and like our press at
Speaker 3: Dead Oceans, it's like, you know, they're all like amazing people.
Speaker 3: I really get on with them really well, and after
Speaker 3: sort of addressing the situation when I came back, they
Speaker 3: sort of understood, but it is kind of a thing.
Speaker 3: For them, it's just sending an email or clicking yes.
Speaker 3: But for us that's a day of traveling and a
Speaker 3: gig and sort of another night where we're not going
Speaker 3: to be home. But on that, you know, on the
Speaker 3: subject of mental health, like I was actually having I
Speaker 3: was talking about I was talking about this yesterday with
Speaker 3: my girlfriend about how at the moment it seems to
Speaker 3: be every second person you meique suffers from anxiety or
Speaker 3: suffers from depression. And it's whether or not this has
Speaker 3: always been the case and we're only starting to address
Speaker 3: it now or it generally is becoming a more increasing
Speaker 3: problem at the moment because of like you know, social media,
Speaker 3: like likes on Instagram and this whole obsession. Ever have
Speaker 3: to be this, I have to be that, So I
Speaker 3: don't know, I mean, like I remember studying Missus Dallaway
Speaker 3: by Virginia Woolf when I was when I was in
Speaker 3: a levels and that was like that talks a lot
Speaker 3: about like the stiff upper lip. It was just it
Speaker 3: set just after Second World War and because that was
Speaker 3: shell shock was when was when either England or the
Speaker 3: UK first acknowledged mental health like before that it wasn't
Speaker 3: a thing, you know, especially being this age like twenty.
Speaker 3: Like with the album, what we tried to do was
Speaker 3: like capture a moment of the three years of being
Speaker 3: from seventeen to twenty and as well as like the
Speaker 3: absurd things that we experienced through being in a band
Speaker 3: and being you know, invited into this weird world. It's
Speaker 3: just all the things that happened to you anyway when
Speaker 3: you're going through that, you know, transition into sort of
Speaker 3: like being an adult or whatever, like you know, moving
Speaker 3: out or going through relationships and dealing with like different
Speaker 3: mental health problems. But I think, like now with the
Speaker 3: new music that we're writing, I think we just want
Speaker 3: to show the sort of like a sign of like
Speaker 3: maturity because we're not that age anymore. I think when
Speaker 3: people like compare our music to sort of like first
Speaker 3: of all, like we hate the word like laddish or
Speaker 3: that sort of title, you know, we want to like
Speaker 3: dissolve any preconception of that. But we can understand completely
Speaker 3: where it comes from because we were teenage boys, so
Speaker 3: it's inevitable that that comparison is going to be made.
Speaker 3: But now, I mean, like I guess you know, there's
Speaker 3: one new light, there's one new song that we're working on,
Speaker 3: like the lyric to its human sacrifice, because that's what
Speaker 3: I felt like in that period of Germany, Like you know,
Speaker 3: you're just people are coming to watch you sort of
Speaker 3: like almost destroy yourself. You know, people are so naturally
Speaker 3: drawn to that. I mean, I am guilty of this
Speaker 3: as well. You're naturally drawn to in guitar music, you're
Speaker 3: drawn to the idea of chaos being controlled and sort
Speaker 3: of someone who looks like that on the brink and
Speaker 3: someone who, like you know, doesn't really have a place
Speaker 3: to sleep and as you know, are they going to
Speaker 3: collapse on stage while they going to do a backflip
Speaker 3: kind of thing? Like that whole thing is so provocative,
Speaker 3: and I can understand why. It's because you want to
Speaker 3: live your life with someone else. You want to we
Speaker 3: want to hear the stories of what it's like to
Speaker 3: go on a four day bender in like La, like
Speaker 3: you know, with like models and celebrities. But that's not
Speaker 3: your reality. And the reality is it's probably something that's
Speaker 3: quite damaging. There's no way it couldn't be. But I
Speaker 3: think that that issue definitely is being addressed and I
Speaker 3: think there's like there's a lot of issues. I know,
Speaker 3: like especially one person that we really like and support
Speaker 3: in the band as Princess Nokia, who addresses and like
Speaker 3: talks about load of a lot of issues that I
Speaker 3: think are important, and especially like with guitar music, it's
Speaker 3: such like a sort of certain demographic, it seems that
Speaker 3: a lot of issues might not be like talked about.
Speaker 3: And we don't want to be the spokesperson for any
Speaker 3: issues that, you know, like we don't want to speak
Speaker 3: on behalf of women because that would be unjust, but
Speaker 3: we want to show our support as I sort of
Speaker 3: think there's like a difference there, like we will always
Speaker 3: support these cases of you know, you know, for the
Speaker 3: fight for a quality. But yeah, I mean I think, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, getting back to the point, there is a
Speaker 3: lot of there's a lot of stuff that needs to
Speaker 3: be addressed and mental health, but that's not just for us.
Speaker 3: There's a great book if anyone listening is interested, called
Speaker 3: The Ascent of a Man by Grayson Perry, and definitely
Speaker 3: like being a guy like reading that, it's like a
Speaker 3: very important thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, good recommendation. Moving on to talk about what's
Speaker 2: happening next This week is your last week in London
Speaker 2: for a little while, because you're going to get on
Speaker 2: a plane and go to Australia and then you're going
Speaker 2: to go to America. What's going to be happening there,
Speaker 2: what you're looking forward to, and what your experiences have
Speaker 2: been to either of those places been like before.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not looking forward to a plane journey. I
Speaker 3: don't know how I want to do that. I'm just
Speaker 3: gonna have to get a load of xanax and nicotine patches.
Speaker 2: This is because you want to have a single.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want to sound ungrateful in
Speaker 3: any way because obviously we are aware of how lucky
Speaker 3: and privileged we are to be in this position. But like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, going to Australia and that's never I've
Speaker 3: never like desired it, But I know it will just
Speaker 3: be one of those places where when I get there
Speaker 3: and sort of the realization of how far we've actually
Speaker 3: sort of like traveled and how different it probably will be,
Speaker 3: I think that'll be amazing. I don't know. Also, it's
Speaker 3: going to be like it will be the hottest thing
Speaker 3: I've ever experienced, hottest places, bad we're like, we're like
Speaker 3: British to the bone, so like we never we never tan,
Speaker 3: we never, we only burn like as a band, and
Speaker 3: it's always that situation. You know, we burn like twenty
Speaker 3: four degrees in France, so I don't know how we're
Speaker 3: going to suffer in forty six degrees in Melbourne or whatever.
Speaker 3: But I'm excited to do that, and I'm excited to
Speaker 3: also be on like a touring festival. And Australia also
Speaker 3: has some of the best fucking guitar music ever. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like ever, Like Eddy Current Suppression Ring are our band's
Speaker 3: favorite band.
Speaker 2: I love Eddie Current'spression Ring. Yeah. If you listen to
Speaker 2: this and you're thinking, I've not heard of that band,
Speaker 2: like an amazing Australian garage band, put out a bunch
Speaker 2: of records, well probably what ten years ago?
Speaker 3: They think they broke up in two thousand and.
Speaker 2: Six, Okay, so you think this is going back a
Speaker 2: little bit, but very much like I mean, they were
Speaker 2: obviously informed by lots of great Australian guitar bands before that,
Speaker 2: but they've been quite influentially in a very quiet way.
Speaker 3: I think, Oh my band so fucking, so fucking quiet.
Speaker 3: I think the only thing I can sort of like
Speaker 3: relate it to is on such a smaller scale. But
Speaker 3: if anyone's ever seen that Rodriguez documentary where when you
Speaker 3: meet someone who knows any current suppression ry, you have
Speaker 3: that connection immediately, Yeah, exactly, you have that that click
Speaker 3: and you suddenly have so much to talk about. And
Speaker 3: we first when we were seventeen, when we were doing
Speaker 3: demos that are dropout studios in Camwell where we now practice.
Speaker 3: Jason Playford, he's like a great fucking friend of ours,
Speaker 3: played us them when he played us that album Primary Colors,
Speaker 3: and since that we all just got hooked on that album.
Speaker 3: And I think the interest is is like the mystery
Speaker 3: behind it, which you know, That's why I'm sort of
Speaker 3: relating it to Rodriguez, because it's on the other side
Speaker 3: of the world. There isn't actually like that many live
Speaker 3: videos or interviews or whatever, and loads of people from
Speaker 3: going around America and Europe, I've met loads of people
Speaker 3: who have sort of like a glimpse of insight into
Speaker 3: their into the context of the band, and every time
Speaker 3: you're kind of like finding out this gold. I mean,
Speaker 3: now they're obviously the guitarists went off and formed Total
Speaker 3: Control Productions. Well, yeah, you know, Primary Colors. The whole
Speaker 3: of that was recorded and produced in one day. Really, yeah,
Speaker 3: so I think going over there and there's that new
Speaker 3: ban the Chats. You did that song Smoko. It went
Speaker 3: and it went like I hate saying this, but it
Speaker 3: went viral because it's the most Australian video and song
Speaker 3: you've ever seen in your life. But that's fucking great.
Speaker 3: I mean there are loads of other bands and like
Speaker 3: you know, it's quite a shame with Australia because so
Speaker 3: much of it never sort of makes it out because
Speaker 3: of just how far away it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, geographically they're yeah, a bit more stranded. It takes
Speaker 2: that much more to get them over to the UK.
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. I mean even with someone like Alex Cameron,
Speaker 3: like he took him sort of like you know, touring
Speaker 3: America and Europe sort of like constantly, yeah exactly for
Speaker 3: sort of two years to sort of like you know,
Speaker 3: he has a great fucking following now like Kim and Roy.
Speaker 3: But it is a far far away land. But there's
Speaker 3: also like you know, when we go to America, America
Speaker 3: is weird, you know, it's sort of you know, that
Speaker 3: sort of like definitely adds to like the mental instability.
Speaker 3: You know, you'll be dry, You'll be on this highway,
Speaker 3: this like stretch of like unanimous American land, and you'll
Speaker 3: like stop off at service station and you'll drive for
Speaker 3: like three hours just stop off, and you're at the
Speaker 3: exact same fucking service station with the same people working there.
Speaker 3: It's all kind of a bit like disorientating. And we
Speaker 3: had we had a weird time there. But I really
Speaker 3: know what, like the place I'm most excited to go
Speaker 3: to is LA have been before, no, never been?
Speaker 2: What is what's your what image of you got in
Speaker 2: your mind?
Speaker 3: Just just I think, like you know, a place where
Speaker 3: only reigns one time of the year and it has
Speaker 3: sort of like the history that it has. And I
Speaker 3: think the British, the British humor, I think sort of like, uh,
Speaker 3: it's quite attracted to the La personalities of that sort
Speaker 3: of like fakeness, you know, like that it's that it's
Speaker 3: like that they're so genuinely fake and that I'm stereotyping
Speaker 3: and generalizing now, but like from what I've heard in
Speaker 3: the stories and stuff like that, and I think it
Speaker 3: just I mean New York was New York was great,
Speaker 3: but like it was quite it was was just like
Speaker 3: London on crack. Like it didn't it didn't feel like
Speaker 3: didn't feel like when we went to Austin and we
Speaker 3: were like for south By Southwest and we're like, whoa,
Speaker 3: We're in America. New York just kind of felt like,
Speaker 3: you know, you were just walking on a film set
Speaker 3: you've seen like a hundred times before. That's not to
Speaker 3: say I didn't like it, but apparently it's you know,
Speaker 3: changed massively as well. But I mean, you know, for
Speaker 3: for us as a band, as individuals, it's our first
Speaker 3: time going to all these We'd never been to New
Speaker 3: York as people. You know, we've never been to La
Speaker 3: We've never been to so many other places. So we
Speaker 3: get to experience like all of these different things for
Speaker 3: the first time. And I think, like definitely, like the
Speaker 3: truest thing is if you go as a tourist, you're
Speaker 3: gonna have a completely different experiences if you go as
Speaker 3: a band, yeah, because you just get sort of thrown
Speaker 3: into whatever you're doing, you know, like you get thrown
Speaker 3: into a different sort of side of the side of
Speaker 3: the city.
Speaker 2: And when is your next day off and when we
Speaker 2: be back in London, like at home Home.
Speaker 3: Well, we're going to be back on the twenty fifth
Speaker 3: of March, so we're gonna longest we've been away before.
Speaker 2: Is like, it's going to be spring when you get back.
Speaker 3: I know, I know, I know people are going to
Speaker 3: you know, pairs will grow and you know, bellies will change.
Speaker 3: But so it's going to be it's going to be weird.
Speaker 3: But I think I think it's definitely exciting. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, being in this band, we never we never
Speaker 3: had a gap year or anything like that. We get
Speaker 3: to go and experience all of all of these things.
Speaker 3: So you go on holiday, yeah, basically work. I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't even know what the fucking
Speaker 3: description for being in a band is anymore, like some
Speaker 3: sort of like mutated work holiday.
Speaker 2: It's all merged together.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, poison.
Speaker 2: When you get back, it will be and in March
Speaker 2: should be kind of going into summer. What are your
Speaker 2: have you thought about what you like to achieve and
Speaker 2: what might happen like this year in twenty eighteen, the
Speaker 2: album's out. Now you've already been playing those songs for
Speaker 2: like eighteen months, two years, but a lot of shows
Speaker 2: in a weird way. This is the beginning again because
Speaker 2: the album's out there. So do you have any goals ambitions?
Speaker 2: Do you want the Mercury Prize nomination to top it
Speaker 2: all off or something like that.
Speaker 3: No, I think if we can play you know, probably
Speaker 3: won't happen this yet, but in the future, if we
Speaker 3: were able to play Bricks and Academy and sellout like
Speaker 3: that sort of like the main ambition for the band.
Speaker 3: But going to America and going to Australia and Canada,
Speaker 3: all of these different countries, you are starting as a
Speaker 3: band all over again, maybe have a little foot up
Speaker 3: than a band who's just started out. But that's what's
Speaker 3: quite like appealing to us as well, having this sort
Speaker 3: of like clean slate, Like when we toured America, it
Speaker 3: was literally like, you know, doing our first UK tour
Speaker 3: again apart from in New York. That's something that's quite attractive.
Speaker 3: I think we just want to write. We just want
Speaker 3: to ensure that we have time to write new music
Speaker 3: as well, and we know that that's you know, the importance,
Speaker 3: so that we don't just want to you know, we'd
Speaker 3: be one of those bandsy tours a lot and release
Speaker 3: as a ship second album and maybe maybe that might happen,
Speaker 3: but you know, hope, hopefully we'll try and avoid it.
Speaker 3: But I think one of the goals as well is
Speaker 3: just sort of like we've always wanted to do. Like
Speaker 3: an I think touring for us is like a is
Speaker 3: a great form of release because we are primarily a
Speaker 3: live band. We've always been like that. And like the
Speaker 3: next the UK tour that are going on like is
Speaker 3: basically like all the dates are going to sell out
Speaker 3: by the time we get you know, we've already had
Speaker 3: loads have sold out three months in advance, so I
Speaker 3: think that will be like, I think that's like something
Speaker 3: that will sort of be like a moment where you're like,
Speaker 3: we're like, you know, a moment of joy in Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well listen, thanks for coming on Midnight Chats. We appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Good luck with the tour Australia and America. We'll see
Speaker 2: you back in the world Europe, in the world taking over.
Speaker 2: So yeah, officially Britain's most exciting new guitar band today.
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Charlie.
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