WEBVTT - Ep 40: Shame 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:20.360 Loud and Quiet Presents Midnight Chats. 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:27.360 Good evening and thanks for streaming or downloading this new 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:33.520 episode of Midnight Chats. It's a dark, damp, bitterly cold, 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:37.680 thoroughly miserable January night here in London. As I introduce 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:42.400 you to tonight's guest on the podcast. Before I do that, 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:44.640 thank you to all of you that tuned in and 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:49.239 listened to Craig David on our first episode of twenty eighteen. 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.920 I'm pleased to report that Stewart has gone out and 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.240 bought some new Rebot classics and booked his flight to 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.520 spend the summer in Ibetha with Craig. So I'm glad 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.560 that that's got a happy ending. Check out that conversation 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.319 wherever you're listening to this right now if you haven't 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.839 listened already, and do subscribe whilst you're there. It sounds 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.039 like Craig has got a very exciting life, and my 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:16.679 guest on Midnight Chats this time has just come off 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.560 the back of a very exciting week a very exciting 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:24.800 weekend to be honest. Last Sunday I was pretty thrilled 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:29.280 to get through three loads of dirty washing. That felt good, 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.080 That was the highlight of my weekend. But my guest 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.280 scored a top forty position in the UK charts with 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:41.919 his band's debut album. Right now, as I look, Songs 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:46.880 of Praise is nestled between David Bowie and Stormsy up there, 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:51.440 so excited he should be. He is Charlie Steen, the 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.840 twenty year old frontman of South London band Shame. They're 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.000 the group you've probably heard about that are here to 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.680 save British guitar music, or at the very least to 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.240 make it a bit more exciting. That's what people have 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.639 been saying about them anyway. Their success certainly isn't an 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.720 overnight thing. Some of Shane met when they were just 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.720 eight years old and they went to school together classmates, 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:20.080 and the band formed primarily when they're in their mid 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:24.440 teens around a pub called the Queen's Head in South London, 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:29.079 where some of their first shows took place at three 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:30.919 am and they got up and still made it to 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.600 the geography class or whatever it was the next day 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:37.120 on time. They are an amazing live band and the 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.400 five of them played an exhausting amount of shows in 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:44.600 twenty seventeen, roughly one hundred and fifty and the damaging 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:48.680 effects of that. Charlie goes into in detail in the 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.400 chat that you were about to hear. Now, Charlie came 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.560 to our offices just a couple of days ago, knocked 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.320 back a couple of strong coffees and smoked a couple 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.400 of rollies before recording this. I certainly caught up with 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.960 him in a memorable moment, because, as older artists will 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:08.840 tell you, you only ever get the chance to experience the 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:12.560 feeling of releasing your debut album once in your career, 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.280 and Shame, by the sounds of it, have been enjoying 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:20.240 every second of that, and so they should do. Just finally, 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.680 as I sit here with the news channel on my 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:27.079 TV scrolling silently in the background, the death of one 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:31.320 of music's great mavericks, one of the great antagonists and 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:36.160 unapologetic innovators, Markie Smith from The Fall. His death was 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:40.040 announced just a few hours ago, So tonight I'll pour 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:44.400 a drink for Mark. That seems apt. As one uncompromising 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.920 band exits the world in music, hopefully it's just the 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:52.640 start for another. So enjoy this. This is Charlie Steen 0:03:52.960 --> 0:04:13.200 from Shame on Midnight Chats. Charlie, welcome to Midnight Chats. 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:14.560 Thank you very much for having me. 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.920 Hopefully you're joining us at what will be a memorable 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.600 period for Shame, because last week, just a few days 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.680 ago in fact, you released your debut album, Songs of 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.440 Praise YEP. So what was that week actually? 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.760 Like, I think we were all like super fucking surprised 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:31.839 at the reaction that we got, and it was sort of, 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.000 you know, like above and beyond what we could have expected. 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:36.880 You know, we've said this before, and we always want 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.280 to have this underlying humor to the band and sort 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:41.479 of the image and when we're on stage, and just 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.880 the fact that we charted in the top forty was 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:48.200 just so sort of funny and surreal to us, you know, 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.520 especially you know, three years ago, we would have been 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:52.640 upstairs at the Queen's Head to sort of like where 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:56.440 we are now. I wasn't really nervous about putting out 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:58.279 the album, and I don't think many of the people 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.680 in the band were either, because it's it's been such 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.640 a strange period of time leading up to it, and 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:06.880 we've had these songs for what seems like a while, 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:08.799 and you know, the last year played like one hundred 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.359 and fifty gigs and forty seven festivals in three months, 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:13.680 and they've been just playing these songs over and over. 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.280 But it's just nice to have like it's I think 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:19.279 the most satisfying thing is to just have like a 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.040 piece of work just out there available to the public. 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.000 And it does feel like quite exposed. You know, you 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.200 do feel quite exposed, But then again, you know that 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:29.799 means you're probably doing something right. 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.839 So if you do look at the UK Top forty 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.799 chart at the moment in between David Bowie and Stormzy 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.920 his songs of praise, just why do you why does 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.240 that feel so surreal? Just because you never anticipated that 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:44.839 something like that would happen. You never thought you'd be 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:46.880 in a band that would reach those you know. 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.120 No, I think when we started we weren't, you know, 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.000 we were very much like a natural band. We were 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.320 never manufactured where we sort of sat down and decided 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:57.720 what image we wanted to project, what music we wanted 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.400 to make, and we've only ever sort of taking it 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:02.320 kind of like one step at a time, with the 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.919 exception probably being that we've always wanted to do bricks 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:08.479 and academy. That's sort of like the dream of the band, 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.479 But we just never you know, it never sort of 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.000 really crossed our mind. I can't say why, Like probably 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:17.360 just because of what popular music is at the moment 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.920 and the sort of like state this in we just 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.479 thought it wouldn't have been achieved. But it's weird that 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:24.479 it's happened, and it just sort of like felt really 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:27.080 surreal and it was a good night. But that whole week, 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.960 I mean, you know, like it was just one abnormality 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:32.640 after the other, like when we got on the front 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:35.920 page of the Guardian and like, you know, all these 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.679 different things happened, and the response has just been amazing 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:39.080 as well. 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.040 So is it hard not to get carried away with 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.360 that stuff? Or do you You already mentioned that you'd 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:45.040 maybe take it with a pinch of salt. 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.600 I mean, yeah, I think we always try and walk 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:52.800 the tightrope between like degrading ourselves and praising ourselves, and 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:54.760 you know, we don't want to lean too far to 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:56.360 either side. We just want to kind of keep it 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:58.360 in the middle. But yeah, very much. I think I 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.480 think the most important thing is being being in a band. 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.560 For anyone, you can sort of get so wrapped up 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:06.480 in your own wall and the world and just sort 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:08.640 of be like, you know, staring at the painting too close, 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:10.360 and it's important to sort of like take a step 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.000 back and just sort of like, you know, seeing our 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:14.720 mates who just sort of like do not you know, 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.600 like you know, have jobs or go to UNI or whatever. 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:19.400 It makes you feel a bit more like human and 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:21.880 realizes that, you know, what you're doing is very much 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:22.920 its own little world. 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:25.000 Do you think it would be easy to get carried 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:25.800 away with that stuff? 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.920 Yeah, I can see, you know kind of. I think, 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.160 you know, I think this period of like you know, 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:34.320 at the moment of being in a band is so 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:40.640 maybe unlike unlike anything before, just probably because of like 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.200 you know, money in terms of like record sales and stuff, 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:45.960 like to be in the top forty now you only 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.680 need to sell a few thousand records, whereas in twenty 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.120 years ago you'd sell a few you know, you'd sell 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.760 tens of thousands of records or one hundred thousand records 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:55.600 in a week. And I think that's changed. You know, 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.520 I said it before, I've said it before in an interview, 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:03.960 but that isn't this like preconceived image of like a 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:06.440 rock star lifestyle anymore. You know, we're not being driven 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.080 around No, people aren't getting in limos and lights, staying 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.360 in five star hotels less of like the Arctic monkeys 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.440 or food fires or whatever. So I think it's I 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:16.280 think that's good because you're sort of so close to 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.040 reality at the same time, and I think that's the 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:18.960 most important thing. 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.960 Did you celebrate when the result came in? Then when 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:23.920 you did make it into the top forty, did you 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.000 allow yourself a moment just to sort of be like, yeah, 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:26.880 that was an achievement. 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.480 Yeah, we did, But that was also the day, the 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.400 day that news came in, was it had been a 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.240 whole week since our album came out. I mean, we 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.640 basically celebrated every single day that week, but that yeah, 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.760 that Friday was like the heaviest we sort of got 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.600 and it got pretty messy, but yeah, it's a great 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:44.720 I mean, we got kicked out of the Spoons that 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.559 night because we turned up at the Crown and Steps, 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:49.960 which is on Brixton Hill, and we thought it would 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:53.120 be funny to like post on our Instagram story that 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.000 you know, like our table number and the Spoons were 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:57.800 in and see if anyone. So this guy comes over 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.000 with like he comes over, what do you come over? 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:03.720 With first a pot of peas, and then he came 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.000 back over with a Friday Egg and he's all right, listen, mates, 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:07.480 I don't know what the fuck you think you're doing, 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.440 but this isn't funny. And we were like what and 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.640 he was like, I've got fifteen orders to roch a sauce, 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.480 four pints of milk, and like three bud light and 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.400 seven more pots of tea and this has all happened 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.559 in four minutes. He was like, I'm gonna bring you beers, 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:21.080 but that's it. And then he brought us like a 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:22.800 bud Light or something like that, and he was like, 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.920 I've just had twenty more orders through for milk, and 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:27.480 he was like, get the fuck out of the pub, 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:29.280 and we were just kind of, you know, we were 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.000 already pretty fucked and we were like, you know, just 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.600 couldn't be wanted to argue and probably being a bit unfair. 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:37.080 On that guy's Friday night. 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.920 We had Wesley Gonzerliz to the podcast for and he 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.320 did something similar on his birthday where he posted his 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.240 table number in the Wetherspoons and you can go on 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:46.360 their app and order. 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:48.440 Yeah, yeah, that's wherever you are in the world. 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:50.839 So he was saying that it would be like a 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.000 tray full of shots of whiskey or something. We turned 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:55.880 up and it'd be like, oh, Tony and Chili's just 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.160 brought you. Yeah. Yeah, it might even have been the 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.280 same weather since, but he definitely left the night worse 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:01.120 the way you said. 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:02.719 We didn't even get that far. I don't think the 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:05.160 people who are ordering it were like generous enough to 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.600 give us shots of whiskey. It was all just you know, 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.800 we literally had five minutes of it and there was 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.240 like forty orders for all of these different things. Yeah, 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.400 only one of the fried eggs, milk peas, sa sauce, 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:18.200 only one of them was a pint and it was 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.720 bud Light, And so we just had to leave, like 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.200 and just like delete it off our story. 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:24.160 People have obviously heard the album now, but in the 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.360 run up to it, there were a lot of really 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.360 positive reviews, like I haven't seen a debut album review 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:32.840 like that for quite a while. What does that feel like? 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.880 Basically does that kind of give you like a feel 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:35.440 good factor? 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.880 Yeah? I mean I'm not going to say that, you know, 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.840 I think we'd be lying to ourselves, and like'sly to 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.160 myself if we sort of like dismissed all of that 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.120 and sort of you know, like didn't didn't take it 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:50.480 into consideration because it was you know, as much as 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:52.400 you know you can say what you want about critics, 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.720 it is sort of a feeling of confirmation for someone 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.360 to actually, you know, like what you've created and it 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:59.160 is all well and good to say, you know, whatever 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.240 I've done, I don't care because I'm happy with it. 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:03.840 But you know, if everyone's saying your album's shit, it's 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.839 probably gonna get you down a bit. But no, I mean, 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:08.520 it was just I mean, that was happening in sort 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.360 of like the weeks the week's like the week or 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.199 weeks leading up to the album coming out, and it 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:15.920 was just fucking weird. I mean. We also we got 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.960 a grant fifty grand, which we didn't have to pay back, 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.040 so we were able to put up like billboards and 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.199 Chube posters and like all the central stations like Waterloo 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.920 and stuff like that. I think that was fucking weird 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:27.680 because it's. 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:29.559 Sort of like you know, seeing your face and the tube. 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:31.520 I think, yeah, I think it's just like the confirmation 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.360 that you know, because we you know, we work so 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:36.520 fucking hard. Like, and yes, there are a lot of 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:38.520 factors of luck. And I'm not saying that we're the 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:40.480 only band who works as hard as we do, because 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.200 there are certainly others who do just as do just 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.160 as much work. But it was nice to just sort 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:48.680 of see it like finally paying off, like after years 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:50.680 and years of doing like you know, all the slogs 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:52.199 and all the fucking shitty gigs. 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.959 And I think also four out of five features I've 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.280 read about Shame in the last three or four months 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:02.520 have described you as Britain's most citing new guitar band. Yeah, 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:03.720 does that sit well with you? 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:05.439 Well? I mean, you know that's temporary, isn't it. That's 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:07.200 gonna be the nextperience of new guitar band or like 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:13.120 Tomorrow's they Paper or whatever, like I think, yeah, I mean, 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:14.920 I think I think the thing that's the most funny 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.280 about that is like some of the comments being like 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.520 this is an original, like this has been done before, 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.719 and you know you're kind of reading it like obviously, 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.480 Like you know, we always say that our music is 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:27.800 like derivative, and we know it's not original. We know 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.360 we're not sparking a new fucking genre of music. That 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.720 for some reason nobody else has been capable of doing 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.440 for the past thousands of years. So, like I think 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.880 the difference is is like at the moment, all the 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.880 music you could argue in this sort of like incestuous 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.559 London scene at the moment, or you know, further out 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:52.680 across America and UK and European Europe. It's so like 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.080 unique in how derivative it is because it's so influenced 0:12:56.080 --> 0:13:00.240 by we have such a large amount of like background 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.040 of music to draw from and you know, loads of 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:05.600 other things and you know, sort of shape it into 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:07.720 what it is at the moment. And for you know, 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.680 for all this type of music we can you know, 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.920 being this age that I'm twenty, Like I can listen 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.439 to the Stooges, I can listen to Bowie, but I'll 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.520 never live through it like ever. And so you know, 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:21.400 for us to be able to go to gigs and 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.000 experience like a simile similar level of like passion and 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:29.640 like you know, heightened adrenaline is you know, it feels 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.599 new to us. Like you know, I remember seeing I 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.800 remember seeing Fat White Family for the first time when 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.200 I was fifteen, and I was just like a stone 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.000 of kid I was actually just walking through to leave, 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.120 like because I went there to see King Crawl at 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.640 the Queen's Head and it was just like, you don't 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.640 you almost don't think that music like that can exist 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:48.160 anymore because of how sort of like driven out it is. 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.560 But that's why it's so interesting, you know, it's fascinating, 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:55.400 you know, the psychology behind nobody who starts a guitar 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.280 band depending on their ego. I don't think, certainly for 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:04.839 us sort of imagined like financial stability or like success 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.160 or all of the things that came along with the 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.800 image of like the seventies. But you still do it 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.920 because you know, you're driven by passion and by interest 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.360 and and that sort of like speaks for itself. Like 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:17.679 there are a lot of bands we know who do 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:19.840 like amazing music and still have like a Saturday job 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.280 and stuff like that, like you know, weekend job and 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.560 still work and still struggle to pay the rent. And 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.040 for that for that reason, it's you know, it's fucking horrible. 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.000 And that's sort of another subject to go into that 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.120 there's no funding from like the UK for the majority 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.800 of artists in comparison to Europe, and I think, you know, 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.760 I think that's a major problem because like UK. 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.360 No, no, no, that's fine. I think that's actually a topics 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.560 like come up before though, how there's a different type 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.320 of appreciation for the arts in the UK. There's not 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.400 so much financial support. Benjamin Clemensine, who won the Mercury 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.360 a few years ago, was on our podcast talking about 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.880 how he feels that when he's performing in places like France, 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.840 there's just a general there's more of a respect that 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:00.520 goes along. 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:01.360 It's fucking amazing. 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.320 Yeah, if you are creating art, then you automatically demand 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.320 a certain level of respect, whereas perhaps that doesn't automatically 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:07.960 come in the UK. 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:09.840 I don't even think it's I don't even think it's 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.600 respect anymore. It's just like it's like human rights, like 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.320 you know, like I remember, there is like if you're 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.800 in a band in the UK, you can never or 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.000 America maybe you can never beat that moment of going 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.640 and playing a European show for the first time. I 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.000 remember we got well first European show. We're playing an 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:33.440 Amsterdam London Calling Festival and we got twelve hour megabus 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.360 there with all of our gear and within Amstam for 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:37.480 eight hours before. 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.280 We guitars, drum get everything on the bus. 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.680 No, they had a drum kit and they had apps, 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:43.640 but it was like guitars and like you know, pedals 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.160 and stuff like that. And we had eight hours once 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:47.760 we got there before we had to get the Mega 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.880 bus back. There's also the time I had scabies as well, 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.960 and I remember we were turned up to the venue 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:56.800 and we were all, you know, like fucking knackd and 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.760 sleep deprived. But and we sort of walked in and 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.200 they took us to a green room and we were like, oh, 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.320 you know, is there like any chance like a beer 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:07.280 And they were like, yeah, yeah, it's in the fridge. 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:08.600 And we were like, oh cool, so do we get 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.400 like tickets or is it shared whatever? They were like no, no, 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.440 that the fridge is yours. And it just sort of 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.320 like you can't believe it because it's all like it's 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:20.760 taxed in across like France and European countries. They all 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.080 have a different percentage of tax that will be taken 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:27.120 out of the band's pay and go back into funding 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.640 independent venues and making sure that you know, they can 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:32.680 get artists that they want to be there, and making 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:34.360 sure the rider's good and that you can pay for 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.480 hotels for the bands to be in and it doesn't 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:38.800 you know, you can't understand why that hasn't happened in 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.080 the UK, but you know, there might be something to 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:45.400 be said about the fact that even though that's never happened, 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:51.000 the UK has like undeniably had the most amazing music 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:51.680 come out of it. 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.720 Yeah, I mean, considering the size of the population, and 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:58.960 it's British music throughout history is punched above its weight 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.880 when it has to be able to rejuice innovative new artists. 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.560 I think that's that's something that would be really proud of. 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.000 But I do agree that you can go other places 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.680 and experience something very different. The feel can be very different. 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:12.840 You mentioned the London scene, the kind of South London 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.960 scene that has been pointed towards in various press, and 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:17.760 I'm sure you get asked about it in interviews a lot. 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:21.520 How real and how like tangible is that? Do you 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.280 know a lot of the bands does it feel like 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.960 a genuine, like real community, Because often these things are 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:31.000 scenes can be created in a press world to effectively 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:35.080 just group like minded artists that are close together into 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.480 one place. But genuine thing is that, right? 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.280 The thing is about we all, like everyone involved sort 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.359 of like hates that sort of like coin term of 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.760 the scene or whatever, even though I can understand it 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.680 from like, you know, someone's perspective. I mean, I went 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.280 to I did Drama with Lotti, lead singer of Goat 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.879 go At sixth form. I went to I did a 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.919 Foundation in Fine Art at Camelwell with Asher singer Sorry. 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.720 I think we're us in Goat Girl are the only 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.359 band actually from South London, you know, like other people 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.520 from North and East, like everyone is just friends. And 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.160 I think the difference with other like quote unquote scenes 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.679 you know in the past, is that every band in 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.320 this category has their own like different unique sounds, you know, 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.280 going from like happy Meal to Sorry to Goat gol 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.000 and so I think the only thing that links us 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.960 together is our age. You know, when we started their bands, 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.359 like Childhood, the Fat White Family, like they were still 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:36.439 like new when we were when we were young, but 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:38.160 we weren't the same age as some when we were 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.760 experiencing like different things because when we were seventeen, they 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.679 were off touring, you know, like they were doing the 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.399 festival circuits and stuff like that. And when we found 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.320 you know, we started this night at the women are 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.679 called Chimney Shitters when we were when we were like 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.359 it must have been like seventeen or eighteen, and that 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:56.080 was when we just decided to get like all of 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.879 our mates down like and you know, like majority of 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:01.639 our friends don't like I'm music. But we started meeting 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:06.840 bands like Shark Dentists, Monk Goat Girl played like go 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:08.919 Gogley that played our first night, our second night, and 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:10.760 it was just it then became this thing of we've 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:14.200 known each other, all of us. Everyone everyone doing music 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.320 around sort of like the Wimmill area that's now moved 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:18.200 to the Five Bells in New Cross, like that's where 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:22.680 the new bands are coming, like Peeping Drexels, like everyone. Yeah, 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.439