1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: On this episode of newts World. The citizens of Iran 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: began protesting in late December over runaway inflation that has 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: imposed widespread hardships on the people. As protests grew, demands 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: shifted from economic relief to calls for the overthrow of 5 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: the Islamic Republic, Iran's theocratic dictatorship in power since nineteen 6 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: seventy nine. The Iranian dictatorship, led by Oditola Ali Khameni, 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: has tried to crack down on the protesters by arresting 8 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: them or killing them. They shut down the internet, which 9 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: has made it difficult to confirm death toes, but in 10 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: reports that have managed to get out, eyewitnesses say government 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: forces have begun opening fire and on armed protesters, killing 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: more than three thousand people across the country since the 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: protests began. Now President Trump is weighing options on whether 14 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: the United States should get involved in supporting the protesters. 15 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: Here too discuss everything going on around. I'm really pleased 16 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: to welcome my guest and friend, somebody I've worked with 17 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: off and on now for almost twenty years, Colorisa jeffers Ade. 18 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: He is the deputy director of the US Office of 19 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: the National Council of resistance of Iran and the author 20 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: of the Iran Threat Colorisa. Welcome and thank you for 21 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: joining me again on neut. 22 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: World Speaking and rich I thank you. I have always 23 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: a pleasure to be on your show. I appreciate everything 24 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 2: you have done for decades, not just for the people 25 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: of Iran, but around the world, with your wisdom, with 26 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: your leadership, and with your direction. 27 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 3: Appreciate that. 28 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: Well, thank you. Let me start with how we got here. 29 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: In the recent past. There are reports suggesting that the 30 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: collapse of the Ayenda Bank, which wiped out the savings 31 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: of millions of Iranians, was the incident that triggered the protest. 32 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: Do you think that was the key moment or whether 33 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: other things building they were even bigger. 34 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 2: Iran has been in a very volatile situation for many years. 35 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: The society is an explosive society, so it all depends 36 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: like where the trigger comes from. And of course economy 37 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: is a very foundation and just for the audience to 38 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: get a sense of how bad things are. Just a 39 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 2: few years after Dietolos came to power, in order to 40 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: get the dollar, you had. 41 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 3: To provide eighty reels to get a dollar. 42 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 2: Right now you have to provide one and a half 43 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: million reels to get the dollar. 44 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 3: It's even hard to calculate. And things are getting worse. 45 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 2: Unemployment, there's nothing working from electricity to water. 46 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 3: And on top of all of that is the lack 47 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 3: of freedom. 48 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: There is absolutely no freedom for anybody, whether it's like 49 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: their personal freedoms or the political freedoms. So when you 50 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: have that explosive situation, it just takes a trigger. And 51 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 2: that trigger came as a result of deteriorating value of 52 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: the currency in bazaar, which is the small businesses, the merchants. 53 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: This used to be the bedrock of support for the 54 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: aetolos for decades, and when they stand up and raise 55 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: their concerns, their protests, you know, things are very troubling 56 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: for the regime. And then it expanded quickly to other 57 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: sectors of the society, the poor they deprived, the workers, 58 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: smaller towns and cities, and the students then joined and 59 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: added voice. So suddenly the whole thing expanded all over 60 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 2: the country to thirty one provinces of the country. And 61 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: the call of the nation was death to the dictator, 62 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: Death to comedy, who's a supreme leader of the Iran regime. 63 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: Death to the oppressor with the Shaw or the Supreme Leader, 64 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 2: making it very clear that the call in Iran is 65 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: to go forward for freedom and democracy, not to settle 66 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 2: with the current theocracy or go back to the Shaw's dictatorship. 67 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: One next thing began to break up, and as I understand, 68 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: this is the first time we've seen the businesses actually 69 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: out there. Up until now they've supported the regime, but 70 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: now you have the small business owners all over the 71 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: place helping the other side. Is that accurate. 72 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, for a while they have been very dissatisfied with 73 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 2: the circumstances, but until now they wouldn't really get in 74 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 2: an active position. So that's a significant sign. And the 75 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: fact that others join. So it's a very unique situation 76 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 2: that you have different sectors of society all involved opposing 77 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 2: the regime. 78 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: And you get the impression that the protests have actually 79 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: spread across the entire country. 80 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: Now, yes, absolutely, even though it started in Tehran and 81 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 2: then expanded to other parts of Tehran. 82 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 3: But soon my Chad for instance. 83 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 2: Which is the second most populated city of Iran, got 84 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 2: evolved in major protests in a matter of days. Shadow 85 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 2: but almost a million people showed up protesting the regime 86 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 2: and then the same situation in all thirty one provinces 87 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: of the country. Now what is important is the things 88 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 2: don't just happen by themselves. Obviously there's trigger, there's foundational problems, 89 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: but you need to have an engine that drives things 90 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: into a certain direction. And the engine came from the 91 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 2: organized opposition. You know, the mk the Menudinian opposition movement 92 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 2: that has been fighting the dietolosiss it is almost day one, 93 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 2: are very active. 94 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 3: They also have what they call. 95 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 2: Resistance units on the ground, mostly consisted of young people, 96 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: and they got active in Mashad, in other cities, in 97 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: two hundred and thirty cities in all thirty one provinces 98 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 2: of the country. You saw the protests and the role 99 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 2: of the EMICAI resistance units were very significant. 100 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: When that was going on, the dictatorship stepped in and 101 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: cut off the internet. I thought, for the purpose of 102 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: stopping local people from organizing. How significant was that and 103 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: just slowing down the process. 104 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 2: Well, of course, when you cut off internet nowadays, that 105 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 2: disrupts communication because a lot of it is relying on that, 106 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 2: and certainly within it's intended to block the information from 107 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 2: leaking out, but also communications, but the regime wasn't really 108 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: all that successful because our movement, the network inside Iran 109 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 2: is not relying only on the Internet, and actually most 110 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 2: of it is done in other ways because to have 111 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: a reliable, sustainable network, you cannot rely on something that 112 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 2: the regime can easily cut off and paralyze you. That's 113 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: why the MIKA has managed to build these resistance networks 114 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: that have their own network, their own way of communications. 115 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 3: A lot of it is just basically done locally. 116 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: So even though that couldn't really help much the regime 117 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: to slow down the process, but it did help them 118 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: from getting the information out, and it took a while 119 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 2: before all the information was exposed to the outside world. 120 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: Given your Reachion, I know from years of working with 121 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: you that the MEKA has amazing sources inside the country. 122 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: There are reports that as many as fifty thousand people 123 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,239 Speaker 1: have been arrested since this began on December twenty eighth. 124 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: What is yours, Jivni feel for both the number of 125 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: rusted and the number killed. 126 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 2: Yes, you know, we have always been as you said, speaker, 127 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: you know, we've always very careful to put out accurate 128 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: information and based on the information we were able to 129 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: compile from all thirty one provinces from our own network, 130 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: adding to it the reports from hospitals, morgues, local people families. 131 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 2: Our estimate is that over three thousand have been killed, 132 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 2: and I know the other numbers are out there that 133 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 2: are much higher. And among those who have been killed, 134 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 2: many of them were actually members of the emicaid resistance units, 135 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 2: mostly young people. I was just looking at some of 136 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: the names of those who have been killed that. 137 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,599 Speaker 3: Were released very young. You know. One of them I 138 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 3: mentioned Zara bo Lulipur. 139 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 2: She was only eighteen years old gen Z student at 140 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 2: the University of Tehran and she was killed on January 141 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 2: eighth in Tehran. And there were two workers who belonged 142 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: to the MK seventeen years old resort Ambadian Rasule Kadi Varian, 143 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 2: both killed in kerman Shaw the first early days of 144 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: the protest January third, both of them in Kermanshaw. 145 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 3: And you look at all. 146 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: The names that come out, you see the younger generation. 147 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 2: But the role that these resistance units have played, and 148 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: the fifty thousand you mentioned is accurate. The fifty thousand 149 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 2: people at least have been arrested. This is in addition 150 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 2: to a lot of the people that they just did 151 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 2: the group arrests and then they released some of them, 152 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: but those they have kept is actually fifty thousand, and 153 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: the regime has threatened that they're going to go after 154 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: them and. 155 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 3: Eventually put them on trial. 156 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 2: You know, with most of the time it takes just 157 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 2: a few minutes and then deal with them. And they 158 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 2: describe them as a whole as mohare, meaning waging war 159 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 2: against God, which is punishable by execution. They're trying to 160 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: frighten the population with killings, and but I think if 161 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: none of that is going to work as a g 162 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 2: english because the regime has done everything to frighten the population. 163 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 2: This is a generation that has no fear because they 164 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 2: have nothing to lose, but they have a lot to gain. 165 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: The prospect for change is so powerful, the message of 166 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: freedom is so powerful that just gives them the encouragement. 167 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: I think two days ago, the regime announced that there 168 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: will be no more hangings. I think this was an 169 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: effort to appease President Trump, and I wrote a column 170 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: and argued that anybody who believed that is very foolish. 171 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: The regime cannot survive, doesn't keep killing people. Now, can 172 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: you imagine them giving up killing people and still staying 173 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: in power. 174 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 2: If the regime gives up killings and the declarers that 175 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 2: there will be no killings even for one day, this 176 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: regime cannot survive. Since day one, they have thrived on 177 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 2: two pillars. Number one, repression and killings inside Iran and 178 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: second their export of terrorism and warmon green and development, 179 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 2: nuclear weapons, missile and drone program. 180 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 3: These two are. 181 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 2: The essential elements of keeping the regime in power, and 182 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 2: that's how the whole thing started. You know, just in 183 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: the summer of nineteen eighty eight, as many as thirty 184 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: thousand political prisoners I'm not talking about regular prisoners talking 185 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 2: to political prisoners in a matter of a few weeks 186 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 2: were executed by the regime. At that time, the first 187 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 2: Supreme Leader Commandity was alive, and it was based on 188 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 2: a fatwa, a religious degree is saying anyone who has 189 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 2: anything or any association with the emy K must be killed. 190 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 2: And ninety percent of the people who were killed were 191 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: AMIK members. Hoping that this will wipe them out and 192 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 2: ensure the survival of the regime. 193 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 3: That hasn't worked. 194 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 2: You know, nowadays, those who you see in the streets 195 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 2: of Iran, they are the grandchildren, the brothers and sisters, siblings, friends, 196 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 2: family members of those who the regime thought that destroyed 197 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 2: and killed the movement for change. None of that is 198 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: working and will ever work. 199 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: This is very important for people to realize that the 200 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: Iranian dictatorship's habit of slaughtering its political opponents goes all 201 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: the way back to the founder, Ayatola Homeni, who was 202 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: extraordinarily ruthless once he was in power. And I think 203 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: people don't appreciate that this is the core of the dictatorship. 204 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 1: They can't function without. 205 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 206 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 2: The regime came to power not because it was popular. 207 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: There was a genuine revolution that was percolating in the 208 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 2: months before the fall of the Shaw in February nineteen 209 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 2: seventy nine, and people were entirely fed up with the 210 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 2: dictatorship of the show because he had a notorious secret 211 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 2: police Sabak that would put intellectuals in jail. The Evin 212 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 2: Prison was actually built under the show for political prisoners, 213 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 2: which is now the main prison. 214 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 3: Torture center for the Iatolas. 215 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 2: He dissolved all political parties who were allegiend to him anyways. 216 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 2: He declared that you know a single party that stopped 217 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: his party said this is my party. You either join 218 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 2: or go to jail or leave the country for good. 219 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: And then he was extremely corrupt, dominating everything under his 220 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 2: own one man control. 221 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 3: And that didn't play well with the Irnian. 222 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 2: Population, who have a very rich culture and history and 223 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 2: desire for freedom. So they stood up and swept the 224 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 2: shot out of power. Too bad that the Molas managed 225 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 2: to steal the leadership of that genuine revolution. They took 226 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: advantage of a very historic opportunity because there was a 227 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 2: vacuum of leadership at the time that existed because the 228 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: Shaw had either wiped out the intellectuals or put him 229 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: in jail and had supported the Mosque. He was giving 230 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 2: money to the Mosque because they were praising him, and 231 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: when the time came so command he took advantage of 232 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 2: that situation. He knew he cannot survive that situation unless 233 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 2: he resorted to repression and monopolizing everything, and that's exactly 234 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 2: what happened. He went after intellectuals, he rallied everything around 235 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: anti Americanism, and then anyone who was in any way 236 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 2: opposed to the Molas, they would get rid of him 237 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 2: and kill them. 238 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: One of the things I don't understand. As recently as 239 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: last Sunday in the Parliament they were chanting death to America. Now, 240 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: as a historian, I'm inclined to think that when guys 241 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: chant death to your country, they probably mean death to 242 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: your country. And I know you travel all over the 243 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: United States and then all over Europe. Why is it 244 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: so hard to get people who should have common sense 245 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: to understand that this dictatorship doesn't want to coexist with us, 246 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: It wants to endure long enough to destroy us. I mean, 247 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: what am I missing? 248 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 2: Well, you're not missing anything, speaker. There are people who 249 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: just don't want to look at the realities and they 250 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: either have illusions or they feel that there are ways 251 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: that they can try to bring the iatolas to sense. 252 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 2: There are actually three slogans after the Molus came to 253 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 2: power that they constantly chant at the Friday prayers at 254 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 2: the Parliament when Harmonies speaks from the podium. Number one, 255 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 2: they say death to America, death to Israel, death to 256 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 2: the Mek. For over thirty years, forty years, actually, those 257 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 2: chants have been there. And look at their actions. They 258 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 2: delivered that the war's leading state sponsor of terrorism. You 259 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: look at all the actions the terrorism the run regime 260 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: has done. And when it comes to Israel, they called 261 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: for wiping Israel off the map, and they have all 262 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 2: these proxy groups, and then when it comes to the MK, 263 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 2: they try to do exactly the same. 264 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 3: Thing to wipe them, kill them, any of their members. 265 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 3: Right now as. 266 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 2: We speak, they are going after the leadership of those 267 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 2: who were involved in the uprising and they know the 268 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 2: MEK has played a significant role. Just today HASNIM news agency, 269 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 2: which is associated with the Iranan regime, announced that they 270 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: have arrested three thousand members of what they call terrorist grouplets. 271 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 2: Now terrorist grouplet is actually the description they use for them, 272 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 2: so that shows like where their focus is. And that's 273 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 2: why I think it's so important for the world to 274 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 2: realize that there's no way you can come into terms 275 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 2: and settle things with the Iolas so long as they're 276 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 2: in power, and the Itolas are. 277 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 3: Telling the world that their number one. 278 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 2: Internal enemy is the EMIK and their resistance units, the 279 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 2: network inside Iran which THEMIK, by the way, is a 280 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 2: member of the larger parliament in exile, the National Council 281 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 2: of Resistance of Iran headed by Missus Raggeri. 282 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: The way they've approached this. I had a distinct sense 283 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: that Trump was moving towards action, but apparently Turkey and 284 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: Gutta and Saudi Arabia are urging him not to do anything. 285 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: I sort of get Turkey. Why would Saudi Arabia, given 286 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: the level of threat they sense from this dictatorship, why 287 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: would they be asking him not to intervene and get 288 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: to solved. 289 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 2: I don't know really what's on the mind of any 290 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 2: country when it comes their policies related to Iran. Obviously, 291 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 2: one of the most important factors that has really dominated 292 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 2: policy making, whether it's in the West, in the region, 293 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 2: or in the United States, was always the terrorism of 294 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 2: the Iran regime. Terrorism has been a very profitable, effective 295 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: tool in the hands of the Iran or regime threatening others, 296 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 2: so this way they can take hostage their foreign policy. 297 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 3: The good news is that the regime is so weak 298 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 3: right now. 299 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 2: They've lost much of their clouds in the region in 300 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: terms of their proxies. Their biggest ally in Syria, Ascid 301 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 2: is gone. Even their biggest ally in Western hemisphere, Maduro 302 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 2: is gone. 303 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 3: So that's one big change that's been happening. 304 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 2: And then the nuclear weapons program, which everyone was afraid of. 305 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 2: And thanks to the MK network in Iran, we expose 306 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 2: the major nuclear sites of Iran dating back to two 307 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 2: decades ago. You know the Natan's uranium enrichment facility we 308 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 2: exposed in two thousand and two that triggered the IAEA 309 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 2: inspections of Iranian nuclear size. We expose Fardo under the 310 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 2: mountains in two thousand and five, and a whole host 311 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 2: of others. So their nuclear weapons program is no longer 312 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 2: the way it was. And then you have this big 313 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 2: momentum inside Iran that is shaping up. I think they 314 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 2: need to revisit their approach, their view about Iran. The 315 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: old vision was that the Molars are in control. They 316 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 2: have all the power, they have all the proxies, they 317 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 2: have all the means to suppress the people, and there's 318 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 2: really nothing that can be done except just negotiating with 319 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 2: the Molas. 320 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 3: Don't steer the pot. 321 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 2: But the new reality of Iran is that Iran does 322 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 2: have a very powerful alternative that has both the people 323 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: on its side. It has a network inside Iran, it 324 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 2: has a clear platform outside of and it's not asking 325 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 2: for boots on the ground because a lot of people 326 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,959 Speaker 2: are concerned that you know, you're going to send troops, 327 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 2: You're going to send money, You're going to get involved. 328 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 3: How are you going to get out of that? 329 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 2: This is not what Missus radially has asked the outside world, 330 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 2: and I think that should be understood that all we 331 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 2: are saying is that the way to get involved is 332 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 2: to ay deny the regime the resources. You know, don't 333 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 2: give them money, don't give them legitimacy, don't give them 334 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: rewards for their terrorism. B hold them accountable for whatever 335 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 2: they're doing in terms of terrorism, develop a nuclear weapons 336 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 2: and the killings inside Iran and see help the regime 337 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 2: change in. 338 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 3: Iran by the people of Iran. 339 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 2: And what that means is that recognize the right of 340 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: those on the ground who are fighting the regime. Because 341 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 2: the most effective blow to the Molaws is when you 342 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 2: see the international community lining up behind this organized resistance. 343 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 3: That shifts the balance of power. 344 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 2: Because no matter what the outslid world does, at the 345 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 2: end of the day, in order to bring about change, 346 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: you need to have force on the ground, Iranian force 347 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 2: on the ground, that's the resistance, especially the country like Iran, 348 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 2: ninety two million population, very large, two three times bigger 349 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 2: than Iraq and Venezuela and all those countries. So that's 350 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 2: why I think if they line up their vectors realize 351 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 2: that change is happening by the people of Iran. But 352 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 2: it won't just happen simply by protests. You need to 353 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 2: have to strengthen and stand on the side of those 354 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 2: who are organizing the organized structure on the ground that 355 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 2: will shift the balance of power. 356 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: Let me you know, when Masa Ameni, the young lady 357 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: who was killed because she wasn't wearing the appropriate hijab, 358 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: it led to huge demonstrations in twenty twenty two, and 359 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: it was sort of a sense then that the system 360 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: was on the vergiic collapse and then it recovered. What 361 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: makes this experience different. 362 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 2: Well, you know the twenty twenty two uprising in Iran, 363 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 2: which as you correctly said, was triggered by the death 364 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 2: of a young Kurdish girl, Massa Amini. It was very 365 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 2: important development because it soon expanded to all the thirty 366 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: one provinces of the country. People were really angry about that, 367 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 2: especially women and others got involved in the protests, and 368 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,479 Speaker 2: it was a moment for the world to understand the 369 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 2: cruelty of the Iran regime. Of course, the regime managed 370 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 2: even though this protest lasted longer than the previous protests. 371 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 2: It was very eye opening to the world about the 372 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 2: nature of the regime, but also very eye opening to 373 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 2: the Iranian people. 374 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 3: They realized that the more they're. 375 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 2: Getting engaged in the protests and opposition, the regime is 376 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 2: just going to come back and kill more people. They 377 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 2: were arresting a lot of people, they put them on trial, 378 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,959 Speaker 2: and some of our members actually were arrested during that 379 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 2: period and were later executed. 380 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 3: Some of them are now on death row. 381 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 2: And I think that became a very foundational element for 382 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 2: the next round of uprising, because each time there is 383 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 2: an uprising, the whole society and the organized resistance learn something, 384 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 2: they gain experience, and every time it goes deeper, both 385 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 2: in terms of the dedication of the people, but also 386 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 2: in terms of strategy, where you're going to focus on 387 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 2: how you're going to confront them. What we saw this time, 388 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 2: the new protests that started in December twenty five, it 389 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 2: quickly became a scene of confront not just protests, not 390 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 2: just opposing the regime, but confrontation between the younger people 391 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 2: and the revolutionary guards and the state security forces. The 392 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 2: slogans were so focused not just on certain rights, but 393 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 2: focused on overthrowing the regime. The slogan death to the dictator, 394 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 2: death to Khamene became the focal slogan of these protests, 395 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 2: and you saw a lot of scenes of confrontation of 396 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 2: the young people with the revolutionary guards. So this is 397 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: just sort of like an elevation of the twenty twenty 398 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 2: protests into a higher level, and it will lead eventually 399 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: there's going to be ups and downs in you know, revolutions, 400 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 2: in uprisings. But there is no way out of this 401 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: for the molas because the foundational reasons for the formation 402 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 2: of this protests are not only there, but they have 403 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 2: been further augmented by the way that Tehran responded to 404 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 2: the protests. 405 00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: What should the United States actually do? 406 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 2: I think it's important for the US to understand, first 407 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 2: of all, who are the players in the society in Iran. 408 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: They know probably a lot about the regime, but they 409 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 2: know much less about the people because there was no 410 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 2: attention on the people the organized resistance, because they were 411 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 2: entirely focused on appeasing the regime. Number one second, understand 412 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 2: the fact that Iran is not going to go backwards. 413 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 2: Of course, there was an ally of the United States, 414 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 2: the Shaw, who was so arrogant at full support of 415 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 2: the US, but he was so detached from his people 416 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 2: started because of repression, because of corruption, that the people 417 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 2: overthrew that. You don't want to be associated with that 418 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 2: kind of a past, because, by the way, the Shah 419 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 2: came to power as a result of a kudeta and 420 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 2: his father also came to power as a result of that. 421 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 3: So realize that this is a new world. 422 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 2: This is not the time that you can ruin a 423 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 2: country like Iran allowed to have a dictatorship and then 424 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 2: build a good relationship with that. That's not going to happen. 425 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 2: So therefore they need to look at the players. You know, 426 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 2: I know, the son of the show goes around and says, 427 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 2: you know, I'm here. 428 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 3: But the problem with that is that he has no connection. 429 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 2: He's totally irrelevant to the affairs of the country. He 430 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 2: only represents his deposed father a dictatorship. He defends his 431 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 2: father and all the sabakh and the repression and whatever 432 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 2: the regime was doing. He refers to that era as 433 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 2: a golden era which the people overthrew. You don't want 434 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 2: to go that route. You want to look at the 435 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 2: people on the ground. Those young people I mentioned their 436 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 2: names today, the young generation in Iran, they're thirsty for freedom, 437 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 2: for political cruralism. You know, that's where the focus should be. 438 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 2: Congress is looking at it that way, in the bipartisan way. 439 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 2: I remember from the time you were in the House, 440 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 2: mister Gunrich, you supported this movement that is very grassroots, 441 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 2: looking at the polaristic Iran and you want to bring 442 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 2: all of the sectors of the Ranian society together to 443 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 2: stand for freedom, not those who are associated with the 444 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 2: dictatorship of the past. And that's why when missus RAJAVII 445 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 2: introduced her ten point platform. 446 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 3: Many many years ago, but over two decades ago. 447 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 2: That platform is based on ballot box as being the 448 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 2: sole criteria for legitimacy, saying only the vote of the people, 449 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: separation of religion and state, freedom of religion, freedom of 450 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 2: political parties, freedom of the press, freedom of speech, freedom 451 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 2: of religion, as I said, free market economy, recognizing the 452 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 2: rights of the minorities of Iran and a non nuclear 453 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 2: republic Iran and those minorities I mentioned is very important 454 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 2: because at least a third of the Iranian population are minorities, 455 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 2: ethnic minorities, whether they are Curves, the as Arias, the Baluchis, 456 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 2: the Arabs, the laws and all of them were badly 457 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 2: suppressed during the Patlavi dynasty, badly, whether by the Shah 458 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: or his father, and they'll be able to oppose to 459 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 2: reviving or even hinting. 460 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 3: For that direction. 461 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 2: That's where you really need to rely on unifying elements 462 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 2: that could represent all the sentiments of the Iridian people. 463 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: My interim question, though, is before we get around organizing 464 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: the post dictatorship, if the dictatorship is prepared to kill 465 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: people on the scale that we're being told, why will 466 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 1: it break down? And it does not have the capacity 467 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: just to outlast the protesters and just keep either arresting 468 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: or killing them. 469 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 2: When you have a nation that has decided to fight 470 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 2: the regime and overthrow them, that makes a huge difference. Now, 471 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 2: of course, the mulas have most of the guns that 472 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 2: control the repressive forces, but on the other side, the 473 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 2: resistance has the capacity to fight back. If during the purchase, 474 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 2: they were a lot of cases, and there are video 475 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 2: clips that shows that the young people were disarming the 476 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 2: revolutionary guards, some of them were trying to deny the 477 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 2: repressive forces of. 478 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 3: The ability to kill people. 479 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 2: But what can really help them effectively is that if 480 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 2: the International Communtee comes out and says the Irani and 481 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 2: patriots have the right to fight the regime, Okay, the 482 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 2: problem is not gone because you can obtain guns in 483 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 2: Iran and that's what they're doing people on the ground. 484 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 2: It's just the outside world recognizing the right. When they 485 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,719 Speaker 2: recognize they side with those who are confronting revolution guards, 486 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 2: that will shift the balance of power. If the United States, Europe, 487 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 2: other countries would say anyone has the right to confront 488 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 2: the guards and settle their skulls with them, that makes 489 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 2: it difference. So that wasn't the case so far in 490 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 2: the past forty years. 491 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: You're sort of, I think optimissly gun through that you 492 00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: could be close to the end of the dictatorship. 493 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 2: Absolutely, because what I'm looking at that I'm counting on 494 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 2: is especially the younger generation in Iran. Number One, that 495 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 2: the regime has tremendous problems in definitive recruiting people on 496 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 2: their side or keeping people on their side. Second, the 497 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 2: fact that there is an organized force. This regime is 498 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 2: not going to just be overthrown by itself. You need 499 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 2: to have a force on the ground. Look at the 500 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 2: history in this country. I remember once you were telling 501 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: in one of your speeches about George Washington. 502 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 3: That he seemed to have like pretty much nothing. He 503 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 3: had the rag tag army. 504 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 2: I remember you were explaining that the soldiers didn't have 505 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 2: woods and they had almost like no chance, but they succeeded. 506 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 3: And that's the real fight. In today's Iran. 507 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 2: The Emmy Kid resistance units, they have a lot more 508 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 2: capabilities now than they even had like ten years ago, 509 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 2: five years ago, the regime is much The momentum internationally 510 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 2: is shifting. I think if we are able to keep 511 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 2: the focus there, that's the only way I can think 512 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 2: of that change is going to come to Iran. Iran 513 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 2: is not Iraq, Iran is not any of those countries. 514 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 2: There's no way that US can invade and overthrow, and 515 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 2: all of those scenarios are not realistic and not desirable. 516 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 2: So that's why I'm so optimistic about the momentum that 517 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 2: has shifted in favor of people. 518 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: It's exciting because you have dedicated your life to bringing 519 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: freedom to the Iranian people. Elarisa. I want to thank 520 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: you for joining me. Our listeners can learn more about 521 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: the National Council of Resistance of Iran in the United 522 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: States by visiting your website at nc RI US dot org. 523 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: And I thank you so much for taking the time 524 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: to help explain these things. 525 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Spaghetti and Grich. You have done 526 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 2: tremendous works. A great guide. Your podcasts, your speeches, your comments, 527 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 2: your interviews are very very eye opening for not just 528 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 2: American public, but everyone who listens to that. I really 529 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 2: commend you and I'm very much looking forward to meet 530 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 2: you in a free Iran. You know, we have a 531 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 2: beautiful country, amazing country with tremendous culture and great people, 532 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 2: and hopefully when Iran is free, you will see the impact. 533 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Aloisa Jeffersonde. News World is 534 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: produced by Gangra Story sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer 535 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: is Guernsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The our 536 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: work for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special 537 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: thanks to the TM at Gingish three sixty. If you've 538 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: been enjoying Newts World, I hope you'll go to have 539 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: a podcast and both rate us with five stars and 540 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: give us a review so others can learn what it's 541 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: all about. Join me on subsect at gingrich three sixty 542 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: dot net. I'm THET Gingrich. This is neutral