1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio. 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 2: News, breaking news. Here the former President Trump. He has 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 2: been ordered to pay three hundred and sixty four million 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 2: dollars for fraud in a New York civil trial. The 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 2: former president also barred from running his New York company 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 2: for three years, his sons have been barred from serving 7 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 2: as New York executives for two years, and the defendants 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: of the case have lost on all claims in that 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: New York civil fraud trial. Let's now bring in Bloomberg 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: News reporter Greg Farrell, who joins us on the phone, 11 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 2: and also Bloomberg News legal analyst June Grosso. Greg I 12 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: do want to. 13 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 3: Start with you? 14 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: This was this verdict widely expected, especially that three hundred 15 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: and sixty four million dollar figure in general. 16 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 4: Yes, okay, given that the judge had found in favor 17 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 4: of the age a couple of months ago before the 18 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 4: actual trial, and some of the comments and observations that 19 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 4: he made leading up to it, it was clear that 20 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 4: who's going to hit him fairly hard? 21 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 2: And what do you make of the like the put 22 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,639 Speaker 2: the scale in the of the defeat on this for us, 23 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: for Trump, because as we know, the president is a 24 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 2: former president excuse me, has moved much of his life 25 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: to Florida at this point, So does it matter that 26 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: the state of Yeah, go ahead. 27 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 4: A the age was seeing a lifetime ban. He only 28 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 4: got three years, so that actually went in his favor 29 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 4: and his sons. They sought a five year ban against 30 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 4: running or being an office for a company in New York, 31 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 4: only two years, so that was relatively light on that front. However, 32 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 4: the businesses, it's not just as easy as you know, 33 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 4: carrying up the paperwork and then reconcept, you know, filing 34 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 4: to establish the same businesses in Florida. That's something that 35 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 4: has not been resolved yet is whether or not Trump 36 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 4: will have to as the business cerpertificates will be canceled, 37 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 4: whether or not these properties will have to go into liquidation. 38 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 4: So that's not clear from today's ruling. That's that's a 39 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 4: big you know, to be determined. 40 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I want to bring in Bloomberg News legal 41 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 2: analyst June Grossa, who's got a thick stack of paper 42 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: covering the keyboard right now, and she's made her way 43 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: through quite a bit of it. 44 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 3: June, what are you learning? 45 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: I have not made my way through quite a bit 46 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: of it. I just went to the back. I went 47 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: to the back to look at what he actually what 48 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: he actually ordered. What Greg said is absolutely true. What 49 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: I think the worst that could have happened is what 50 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: they call the corporate death penalty, which didn't happen here. 51 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: So as Greg said, you know, he is not allowed 52 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,119 Speaker 1: to do business for three years, his sons for two. 53 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: And I think I'm looking for the part that I 54 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: found interesting. Now there's a there's already a judge in 55 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: place as an independent monitor. That judge is going to 56 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: continue as an independent monitor. And also the court is 57 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: ordering an independent director of compliance be installed at the 58 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: Trump organization who shall be responsible for ensuring good financial 59 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: and accounting practices, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And 60 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: the court mentioned that there was an appeal. Trump was 61 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: making an appeal from some of his findings about the 62 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: license of the company, and he said that you know 63 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: I can't find it right. 64 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 3: Now, be fair. 65 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: I just want to paint the picture for everybody listening 66 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: right now, literally a stack of. 67 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: What jims it's ninety ninety pages, ninety eight, ninety two. 68 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: Not to lie, it's only ninety two. 69 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 2: I'm impressed with both of you have been able to 70 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: come up with at this point, Emily take it away. 71 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 5: What does this mean for the election. I'm really curious 72 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 5: what if there's any implications on this results on question? 73 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I mean this unless he was 74 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: going to, you know, use his own money for the election, 75 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: and this will stop him from uh doing that. There 76 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: really is nothing in this having to do with the election. 77 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: I mean, the case is that you have to look 78 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: at for the election or more. The criminal case is 79 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: one that's been set now for next month in New York, 80 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: the hush money case, and of course the case in 81 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: DC that now the Supreme Court is deciding whether or 82 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: not to put us have a stay on that decision 83 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: and so put a hold on that case while he 84 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: appeals it. So, I mean, those are the ones that 85 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: are really have anything to do with his And it's 86 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: not so much that it would stop him from runny. 87 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: It's just that people would be interested and perhaps it 88 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: would matter to people if he is criminally convicted. This 89 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: I don't think, you know, so much matters to be 90 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: But they look at it and they think it's the 91 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: Trump organization, right, you know, they look at it. It's 92 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: about okay, he overstated his income, and the Attorney General said, well, 93 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: you can't do that because that's a business records violation, 94 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: and you know, you have to disgorge the money that 95 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: you got as a result of your lies about your 96 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: net worth. So I don't think people really that will 97 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: affect them as much. 98 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 2: I understand that you and and we've seen polling that 99 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: that sort of shows that the criminal cases are certainly 100 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 2: more important, Greg, Greg Farrell, I want to bring you 101 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 2: back in her Bloomberg News reporter Greg Farrell that said 102 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: everything that June said, I understand at the same time, 103 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: it costs a lot of money to run for president. Yes, 104 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: and it costs a lot of mone And this is 105 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: a three hundred and sixty four million dollars fine. Here 106 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: is this real money we're talking about, Like. 107 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is real money. 108 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 3: He's gonna have to pay this. 109 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 4: I mean, like because we're so used to throwing a 110 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,679 Speaker 4: term billionaire around. Yeah, like everybody he has this unlimited pockets. 111 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 4: But no, And my colleague Arett Larsington an excellent article 112 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 4: about three weeks ago pointing out like some of the 113 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 4: dire fiscal straits, you know, in terms of cash access 114 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 4: to real cash that trum pass. He might have to 115 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 4: liquidate some of these buildings just to come up with 116 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 4: this money. It's not like he has like he's claimed 117 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 4: that he has four hundred million in cash available. But 118 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 4: you know, as we know, just because he claims it 119 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 4: doesn't mean it's necessarily. 120 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: So he's going to appeal this though, Greg, we have 121 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: no doubt he's going to appeal it. Then he'll have 122 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: to either put up the money plus five percent or 123 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: get a bond, secure a bond. 124 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,799 Speaker 4: It's tough, like good luck to him getting a bond. 125 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 4: It's well known in that community. 126 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 3: So well, you talk a little bit about that, Greg, 127 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 3: the challenge there, talk a little bit about that. 128 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 4: Just that you know, he'd be a difficult guy to go, 129 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 4: you know, to give a bond to. He just does 130 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 4: not have a good reputation in that community. Yes, he 131 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 4: can appeal it, but you can't just use an appeal 132 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 4: as an excuse to stop, you know, making a payment, 133 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 4: put it off for several years. So, as June pointed out, 134 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 4: he'd have to post some of that money, you know, 135 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 4: a good chunk of it I think upfront in escrow. 136 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: And also let's not forget he is appealing the eighty 137 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: three million dollar e Gene Carrol verdict, So the same 138 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: thing there, Hill and the last time, the last verdict, 139 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: the fifteen million dollar. I think it was the first 140 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: Gene Carol verts. He put up the money himself. He 141 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: put up the money himself. He put up that plus 142 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: five percent June. 143 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: Do we know if the former president is very good 144 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: at raising money? Yes, very very good at raising money. 145 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 2: He's in fact, he used some of his legal challenges 146 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 2: to raise money from supporters. 147 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 4: Is he a big boom? 148 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 3: It has been, Yeah, thank you, Greg, it has been. 149 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: Is he allowed June to actually use that money to 150 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 2: pay these spines? 151 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 3: Do we know? 152 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: I don't think he's allowed to pay the fines with it? 153 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 3: Okay? Sorry, go ahead, right? 154 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 4: He had not? Those are campaign those are funds for 155 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 4: like he could pay for his legal representation. But he 156 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 4: cannot pay like the damage's reward. That's like off limits. 157 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 2: What about like funding from like a super pac for example, 158 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 2: Could that money go for this? 159 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: I don't think it can. But but the thing is 160 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: that it's all the super pack stuff is very hazy 161 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: and things aren't enforced as much as they should be. 162 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: So but I don't think you can pay from a 163 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: super pack either. 164 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: I mean, I guess Greg, what you can tell I'm 165 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: getting at is is is Trump going to have to 166 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 2: open up. 167 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: His wallet here? 168 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 4: Yeah? Yes, and I think so absolutely. And that's that's 169 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 4: the real real pain here is the judge came up 170 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 4: at the high end of what the ag asked for. 171 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 4: I think she asked three hundred and seventy million, and 172 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 4: he got like, yeah, as you said, three hundred and 173 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 4: sixty four. 174 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 5: So what's Trump's number one priority here? What is he 175 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 5: doing in the next few hours, in the next few days. 176 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: Well, that's a good question. I think he's probably going 177 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: to have a press conference at Mara a Lago. I 178 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: think that's already been scheduled, and he's going to talk 179 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: about this. What he will say, I think is what 180 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: he has been saying in the many press conferences that 181 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: he held all during this New York Attorney General's trial. 182 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,679 Speaker 1: He's going to say that this is a witch hunt 183 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: that Letitia James has been after him. Letitia James campaigned 184 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: on getting Trump. And also he's going to say that 185 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: the people in this case, like the Deutsche Banks, the lenders, 186 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: had no complaint here, and in fact, they didn't there 187 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: weren't any you know, lenders testifying, Oh, we feel really 188 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: bad because we got swindled. So they said, well we 189 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: might have charged more. So he's going to say everyone 190 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: was very happy. Trump is a brand. It was, so 191 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: it's going to be the same thing. I can't imagine anything. 192 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: Different, he Gregor. 193 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: I want to bring you back in here because one 194 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: thing that keeps crossing my mind is the way that 195 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: the former president's sons were implicated in this as well, 196 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: and that they have been actually banned as well from 197 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: doing certain things. 198 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 3: What do we know. 199 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: About the way that the Trump family is affected by 200 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: this ruling today. 201 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 4: Well, according to the trial and the findings of fact, 202 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 4: you know, the sons in particular, not only unlike Ivanka, 203 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 4: who was severed from this and is not part of 204 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 4: this in any way, the two sons were helping to 205 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 4: run the business for many years until Trump became president, 206 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 4: and then in fact we're running the business on his 207 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 4: behalf when he was president. And that's in particular where 208 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 4: a couple of the charges involving insurance fraud came up 209 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 4: that they signed off on and were actively involved in 210 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 4: presenting numbers to the insurance companies that were not, you know, accurate. 211 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 4: They were overstated. 212 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 1: You know, here's I found the part that I it's 213 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: about the prior cancelation of the business life licenses. And 214 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: the judge writes that there was partial summary judgment and 215 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: the Appellate Division First Department has stayed this relief the 216 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: cancelation of business light licenses, penning the final disposition. He said, however, 217 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: as going forward, there'll be a two tiered oversight, the 218 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: independent Monitor and the Independent Director of Compliance of major 219 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: activities that could lead to fraud. Cancelation of the business 220 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: license is no longer necessary, so he basically took that back. 221 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 2: Hey, I just want to take a break and remind 222 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 2: everyone where we are right now, if you're just now 223 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 2: joining us. The former President Donald Trump and his real 224 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: estate company suffered a major defeat in New York's civil 225 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 2: fraud suit over his inflated asset valuations. This after a 226 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 2: judge barred the former president from running any business in 227 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: the state for three years and ordered the return of 228 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 2: three hundred and sixty four million dollars in illegal profits. 229 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:54,479 Speaker 2: That verdict Friday by Justice by Justice Arthur Engron in Manhattan, 230 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 2: is a threat to Trump's real estate empire and is 231 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 2: the latest legal setback as he campaigns to return to 232 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 2: the White House. We should notice two eldest sons, Donald 233 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: Trump Junior and Eric Trump, were also found liable and 234 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: barred from being officers of a company in New York 235 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 2: for two years. I want to bring back Bloomberg News 236 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 2: reporter Greg Ferrell joining us on the phone. Also, we're 237 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 2: joined by Bloomberg News legal analyst June Grosso here in 238 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. Greg, as we take a 239 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 2: step back and think about all of the challenges that 240 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: the former president faces legally, can textualize this one for 241 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 2: us and where this sort of falls on the uh, 242 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 2: just just how bad this is for him and his empire? 243 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 6: Well, it's very bad for his business empire, okay, you know, 244 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 6: and it's more serious I think than a lot of 245 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 6: us like presumed because criminal is worse than civil, that 246 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 6: the real danger to him was all these criminal cases. 247 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 6: But this is, you know, turning out to be far 248 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 6: more damaging, I think than many of us realized, you know, 249 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 6: both financially in terms of the public relations hit, in 250 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 6: terms of the exposureusiness practices being laid out in such 251 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 6: clear detail. And yes, we all knew about Donald Trump, 252 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 6: you know, certainly by the time he became president afterwards, 253 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 6: but this is for all the world to see factual 254 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 6: findings about the way he operated his business for you know, 255 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 6: it was only a decade that came under review by 256 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 6: the ags, obvious, but exactly much longer. 257 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 2: Greg, we heard your phone ringing. There's a lot going 258 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 2: on back there. Yeah, we're gonna I'm gonna let you go, 259 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 2: always ringing. 260 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: Thank you, sources, sources. 261 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: And not thank you enough for joining us. It's Bloomberg 262 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 2: News reporter Greg Farrell joining us on this breaking news 263 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 2: this Friday afternoon. Still what with us is Bloomberg News 264 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 2: legal analyst June Grosser. We're not letting her go quite yet. 265 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 2: We're also going to bring in Bloomberg Politics contributor Geenie Shanzeno, 266 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 2: who joins us. Genie, I want to I want to 267 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: go to you for the politics part of this. Emily 268 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 2: asked a great question a few minutes ago about the 269 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 2: political effects of this. Does it matter to President Trump 270 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: supporters that this ruling has come down in the civil 271 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: fraud trial? 272 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 7: Yeah, I think the fair answer is, we really don't 273 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 7: know the evidence we have so far is that on 274 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 7: all of these indictments and trials, he has been fundraising, 275 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 7: and as we all know from looking at the polls, 276 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 7: his support has only grown. However, we are now getting 277 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 7: I mean, this is all unturned territory politically, but now 278 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 7: that we are seeing these verdicts come down, it is 279 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 7: possible that this does negatively impact him, even with his 280 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 7: core supporters. Because we don't have any test of this 281 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 7: kind of thing in American history, we really don't know. 282 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 7: We do have some polls which say that if he's 283 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 7: convicted of a crime that people will not vote for 284 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 7: him for president, we don't know if that extends to something, 285 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 7: you know, civil like this. So I don't really have 286 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 7: a great answer for you on this except to say 287 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 7: I can't imagine a world and I hope I am 288 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 7: not being Pollyennish, in which somebody being convicted and indicted 289 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 7: this much does have a negative impact on their chances 290 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 7: of being elected president. So I think a fair thing 291 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 7: to say this is not good news for him in 292 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 7: any way, but especially politically, because it's not just this trial, 293 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 7: but the cumulative effect of all of these trials, the 294 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 7: criminal ones which we know are just starting in a 295 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 7: few weeks in New York and then continuing around the 296 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 7: country to get the four criminal ones in and of 297 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 7: course the civil ones are just the beginning. 298 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: So I just have to add to this. So he 299 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: went this week to He's been going to a lot 300 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: of these different court hearings. As he went when the judge, 301 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: Judge Mrchahn, said that set the trial date for his 302 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: New York hush money payment trial for next month. So 303 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: he went to one in Florida where it was an 304 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: in camera hearing, so it was just the defense team 305 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: with the judge Aileen Cannon, and he decided to go 306 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: and before that he alerted everybody. He said, I'm back 307 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: in court again. He sent out an context, I'm back 308 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: in court again. I think he's doing well being back 309 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: in court. I think he's campaigning the from the courthouse steps. 310 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: He's convinced his supporters that this is all a witch hunt, 311 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: that for example, classified documents, Well they didn't they didn't 312 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: go after Joe Biden for classified documents. Why are they 313 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: going after me for classified doctors? 314 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 3: Special Council's report last week? 315 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: Yes, but you know, right, But I'm just saying I 316 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: think that he does very well, because he campaigns from 317 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: the courthouse and everyone picks up his the stuff that 318 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: he says, where as if he was on the road 319 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: at a rally, everyone's not going to pick it up. 320 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: But when he comes outside the courthouse and says it's 321 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: very unfair, you know, for example, when he did it 322 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: this week, when Judge Merschaun set that trial date, he said, 323 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: this is not fair, this is not justice. So I 324 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: think he does very well. If there's a criminal verdict, 325 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: I think it might be different, But a civil verdict, 326 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: this is really beyond most people. I think, Oh, he 327 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: lied about how much money he made. I don't think 328 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: most people see that as something as bad as a 329 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: criminal conviction, because it's hard to understand. First of all, 330 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: it's hard to understand it's about business record. 331 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 2: Right, and I think perhaps people might I've heard people 332 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 2: say the same thing about the covering up the hush 333 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: money paid to Stormy Daniels, for example, like that, I think, 334 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 2: you know, I've heard the comments that some people might 335 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: find that one frivolous versus the actual criminal charges, because. 336 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: Also in that case those are normally misdemeanors, and Alvin 337 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: Bragg didn't want to bring a case with just misdemeanors, 338 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: so he upped it to felonies by hooking it sort 339 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: of to federal charges of election against election law. So 340 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the problem with that case. It's not 341 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: just Michael Cohen's going to testify, because you know, the 342 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: prosecutors are used to having witnesses with problems testifying, But 343 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: it's because of the legal theory behind it that that's 344 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: a problem. I think that case. 345 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 2: Hey, Jennie, come on in here and weigh in on 346 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: what June said. The idea that the former president is 347 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 2: energized by campaigning in quotes on the stairs of the 348 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 2: courthouses versus being out there on the campaign trail. 349 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 3: Do you agree with that? 350 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 7: You know, I think he knows he needs the money 351 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 7: to fund all these cases, and he has been fundraising 352 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 7: off of this. But I still go back to the 353 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 7: fact that we are in a situation where people are 354 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 7: going to have to make a choice if both Joe 355 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 7: Biden and Donald Trump are the nominees. Between the two 356 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 7: of them, neither of them are beloved, certainly, but the 357 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 7: reality is is this race is going to be won 358 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 7: or lost in the moderate independent middle and six or 359 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 7: seven swing states where the Bloomberg Morning Console poll has 360 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 7: been doing their research, and it is really difficult for 361 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 7: me to imagine that this is a selling point that 362 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 7: will help get Donald Trump more votes than he had 363 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 7: in twenty twenty when he lost to Joe Biden. So 364 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 7: you know, in the short term, yes, he's going to 365 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 7: try to fundraise off of it. He's going to try 366 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 7: to make the best of a situation. But by no 367 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 7: stretch of the imagination do I believe that this is 368 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,719 Speaker 7: a you know, a ticket into the presidential nomination or 369 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 7: the presidency itself. I mean, this is a man fighting 370 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 7: for his life, his businesses, and the future of his 371 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 7: children in courts around the country in both civil and 372 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 7: criminal cases. And I am hard plasked to believe that 373 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 7: the American public in the end views this as a 374 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 7: selling point and a jumping off to the presidency. That's 375 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 7: why we heard Nikki Haley say today, and she's been 376 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,719 Speaker 7: screaming from the rooftops that this man brings chaos and 377 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 7: people didn't want it in twenty twenty, and I'm hard 378 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 7: pressed to believe that they will want it, or more 379 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 7: of them will want it in twenty twenty four, which 380 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 7: will put him over the top. So does it help 381 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 7: his base and potentially you know, get in the nomination. 382 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 7: You know, maybe, but let's not forget that the nomination's 383 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 7: likely going to be wrapped up even before the trial 384 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 7: starts in the Alvin braggcase that you and June were 385 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 7: just talking about. 386 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 5: What does the Republican Party make of this? What do 387 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 5: you think how are they going to come out and 388 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 5: react to this news? 389 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 7: You know, if history is any guide, they will support 390 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 7: Donald Trump. The statement we just heard from his lawyer 391 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 7: about a witch hunt will probably be at the top 392 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 7: of their lips. 393 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 6: You know. 394 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 7: The stunning thing is, besides Nicky Haley, very few Republicans 395 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 7: in elected office have come out and said anything about 396 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 7: this case in particular, except that Donald Trump is being 397 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 7: victimized by the New York courts. So I suspect that 398 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 7: will happen. And to Tim's point, I think you echo 399 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 7: what we all feel is that this is exhausting. Nobody 400 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 7: quite can keep track even when you watch it daily, 401 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 7: as to what in case we're talking about when, and 402 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 7: you know, this is going to have an impact, a 403 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 7: cumulative effect on him in the polls, if not in 404 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 7: the short term, in the long term because it is 405 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 7: utterly chaotic, in Nikki Haley's words, and exhausting for voters. 406 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: Genie, I have some not so great news for you. 407 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 2: November is still many months away at this point. Oh, 408 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 2: don't say it, okay, Hey, really appreciate both of you 409 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 2: joining us. That, of course is Bloomberg News Legal analyst 410 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 2: June Grosso here in our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. Also 411 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 2: with us this afternoon, Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeanie shan Zeno. 412 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 2: We have with us right now. One of the reporters 413 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 2: who has been covering this trial, Patricia Hurtado, Bloomberg Manhattan 414 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 2: Federal Courthouse and Legal Enterprise reporter, joins us here in 415 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,479 Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. Pat, good to see you, 416 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 2: Thanks for coming in. I know there's a ton of 417 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 2: news today. This trial ended a while ago, right, It's 418 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 2: been some time that we've been waiting for this decision. 419 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 8: Yeah, and we also suffered through thirteen weeks of trial testimony, 420 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 8: so it's been very long. It started in October and 421 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 8: it went for weeks and weeks and weeks, and they 422 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 8: finished with testimony in mid December, and then the judge 423 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 8: camp had everyone come back after Christmas holidays for closing arguments. 424 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 8: We expected this was going to come out earlier. And 425 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 8: then there was a wrinkle in the case where the 426 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 8: judge found out that one of the witnesses proffered by 427 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 8: Donald Trump, the former Trump Organization financial officer Alan Weiselberg. 428 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 8: He understood that their DA was actually considering prosecuting him 429 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 8: for perjury. 430 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 2: I just want to bring a headline forgive me, you 431 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 2: have not seen this yet, but the Trump fraud verdict 432 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 2: exceeds four hundred and fifty million dollars with interest, this 433 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 2: according to the Attorney General. What's your response to that? 434 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 8: Well, I mean, this is a penalty that's really significant 435 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 8: for Trump. He's always apparently it's affecting him in the 436 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 8: pocketbook where it hurts the most for him. This is 437 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,959 Speaker 8: a lot of money, and it's a lot of money personally, 438 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 8: he's on the hook for more than three hundred and 439 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 8: fifty million, as well as his sons are going to 440 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 8: have to pay. And well, the ag, the New York 441 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 8: Attorney General, had sought a ban from working in New 442 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 8: York State for twenty five years for life. For him, 443 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 8: it's three years. But the guy you know, three years 444 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,479 Speaker 8: is three years, so it's all very significant and with 445 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 8: accrude penalties in all the extras added up, it's a 446 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 8: lot of money. 447 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 5: Where does it stand to in the context of other 448 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 5: cases and other fines, like can you put this into context? 449 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 5: How much money? You know, four hundred and fifty million 450 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 5: dollars with interest the other three hundred and sixty four 451 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 5: million dollars. How does that compare to other cases throughout history. 452 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 8: Well, we just it's a pretty huge rulane for a 453 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 8: family company, that is, you know, the guy prides himself 454 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 8: as being this great billionaire who's been a successful businessman, 455 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 8: who boasted when he was testified that he has four 456 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 8: hundred million dollars in cash. Now, I don't know whether 457 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 8: that number was in the judge's mind when he when 458 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 8: he was trying to factor how much money to penalize Trump. 459 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 8: It's obviously significant as well if you think that this 460 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 8: comes on the heels. Just a couple of weeks ago, 461 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 8: we have the verdict against Donald Trump. He's been ordered 462 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 8: by a Manhattan federal jury to pay eighty three point 463 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 8: three million in the Egen Carol sexual assault case and 464 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 8: defamation case. This is all adding up and it's a 465 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 8: and Trump obviously was very concerned about this case because 466 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 8: he attended it a lot. 467 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 2: Okay, a question that I'm getting over and over again 468 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 2: from people who are watching, people who are listening, is 469 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 2: they hear about big figures in cases all the time 470 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 2: that end up not ultimately being paid because they go 471 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 2: on appeal. We just had David Weston on with us, 472 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 2: who who said that, well, in New York is unique 473 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 2: in the sense that he actually does have to put 474 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 2: up this money even if he appeals this. Talk to 475 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 2: me about what happens moving forward and when the or 476 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: a president will actually have to pony up this what 477 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 2: more than four hundred million dollars at. 478 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 8: This point, Well, what will happen in a process by 479 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 8: appeal he'll have to put up He'll have to get 480 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 8: a bond. It's almost like a bail bond thing, but 481 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 8: it's a bond to basically ensure that the money gets 482 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 8: put like in an escrow account, so it'll get paid 483 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 8: and it won't get furthered away. But what's interesting, but 484 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 8: some of those other verdicts that get reduced is those 485 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 8: are damages verdicts. You know, you think a jury says 486 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 8: this person's gotten injured by two hundred million dollars in 487 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 8: a car accident, and it gets reduced down to maybe 488 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 8: thirty million or twenty million. This is different because this 489 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 8: is disgorgement. This is penel financial binds. The judges found 490 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,719 Speaker 8: that he improperly profited. So if you think about it, 491 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 8: he sold that Fairy Point golf course in the Bronx 492 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 8: made a substantial sum of money, hundreds of millions of 493 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 8: dollars in profit, so that was one of the things 494 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 8: they cited. He sold the old post office in Washington 495 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 8: and made a substantial profit. The ages argue that had 496 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 8: he not gotten these great terms and lied about his finances, 497 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 8: he would have never gotten these great find lending terms 498 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 8: from lenders like Deutsche Bank, and then he would have 499 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 8: never been able to buy it, let alone be able 500 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 8: to flip it over and make it into a luxury 501 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 8: you know, like the hotel industry. And that's what this 502 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 8: is different about. It's not like a damage is where 503 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 8: a jury verdict gets reduced. This is a judge finding 504 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 8: this is improper profits. 505 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 5: To what extent is the ruling of victory for New 506 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 5: York Attorney General Leticia James. 507 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 8: It's a huge victory because I mean having attended the trial, 508 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 8: he was very angry with her, and every day he 509 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 8: would come out that he attended the trial, he'd have 510 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 8: a little mini press conference where he'd denounce her. He 511 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 8: would say that she should be looking for migrants and 512 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 8: not prosecuting bringing this lawsuit, and there were lots of 513 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 8: mean exchanges and there was no love lost. Apparently it 514 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 8: is a victory for someone who who says that she 515 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 8: wants to hold Trump responsible for what the fraud he 516 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 8: did on the lenders and insurers. 517 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 2: Okay, pat contextualize this for me, because as of a 518 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 2: few weeks ago, the president, the former president, excuse me, 519 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 2: faced ninety one felony. 520 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 3: Charges in four separate cases. 521 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 2: They range from conspiring to defraud the US and his 522 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 2: efforts to overturn the twenty twenty election, this one to 523 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 2: falsify business records, and then also to cover up hush 524 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 2: money paid to an adult film actress. So that's sort 525 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: of the boiler plate, right, Contextualize this one for us 526 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 2: and where that kind of falls in the other legal 527 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 2: challenges that he faces. 528 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 8: Well, many legal experts I've spoken to is you know, 529 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 8: if you think about Donald Trump and who he says, 530 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 8: he is his whole foundation of his being and his 531 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 8: resume is based as this basically five star New York 532 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 8: City developer who brings you these luxury as his son 533 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 8: called them, sexy buildings. Do you know Trump Tower and 534 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 8: forty Wall Street, these marquee properties that are you know, 535 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 8: he is the consummate New York real estate baron. And 536 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 8: now he's had this huge, basically take down by the 537 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 8: New York Attorney General. But yesterday he's ordered to go 538 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 8: to trial in March in five weeks on those thirty 539 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 8: four accounts of falsifying business records. And you know, it's 540 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 8: not been a particularly good week. And you can think 541 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 8: of it that way. Many people who told me it 542 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 8: says what Donald Trump really cares about is what's his 543 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 8: bank account and what's in his wallet, and this is 544 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:35,719 Speaker 8: hitting him in the wallet. 545 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 5: We talked a lot about what this means reputationally for 546 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 5: Trump in terms of will he be able to, you know, 547 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 5: win the election with all of this news. But I'm curious, 548 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 5: from your perspective, legally, what does this mean. Is there 549 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 5: any sort of ruling that would legally bar him from 550 00:27:54,960 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 5: actually running for president and actually taking office because all 551 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 5: of these headlines, they don't seem to actually be like 552 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 5: preventing him from running and potentially winning an election and 553 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 5: then joining office. 554 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 8: One thing you have to remember is as if he 555 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 8: gets wins reelection, he could potentially pardon himself and basically 556 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 8: dismiss those indictments, the federal indictments, So the three federal cases, 557 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 8: the DC federal case, the Washington in Washington. 558 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 6: The. 559 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 8: Florida case, so he could dismiss those cases. The Manhattan 560 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 8: DA's case that was the hush money case. He couldn't 561 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 8: do that. So that still affects his freedom and his 562 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 8: peril of possibly being convicted. And if he goes to trial, 563 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 8: this trial could take about apparently could bring us a 564 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 8: verdict in mid May. And if you think about that, 565 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 8: and he could get convicted. Some people said to me 566 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 8: that he'd be a first time offender. And what a 567 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 8: judge sent in hims to prison. It's like one in 568 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 8: a third to four years for each count, depending on 569 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 8: what the judge hears. And then you know, possibly Georgia, 570 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 8: whatever happens in there in the Fulton County Georgia case. 571 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 8: But this is one of those cases. He could never 572 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 8: pardon himself. Because a state charges, you cannot there's no 573 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 8: federal oversight. 574 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: Pat we have about twenty seconds. What's the next thing 575 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 2: that you're watching? 576 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 8: Well, and next thing, I'm getting ready for the Trump 577 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,479 Speaker 8: hush money case. So and we will expect an appeal 578 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 8: out of this ruling today. 579 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 2: Okay, And what would dollar figures look like for the 580 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 2: hush money case. 581 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 8: It's not a penalty. It would be he could be 582 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 8: convicted and go to prison. 583 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 3: And that's a New York state, that's. 584 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 8: Inhattan State Supreme Okay, you guys might call it for 585 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 8: jury duty. 586 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 2: That's a good point. And you were going to be 587 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 2: busy too, so we really appreciate your time. That is, 588 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 2: of course. Patricia Hurtado, Bloomberg, Manhattan Federal Courthouse and Legal 589 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 2: Enterprise reporter, joining us here.