1 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Hey, what welcome in. 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 2: I'm jug Gottlieb. 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: This is Oball and oh ball is your home. 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 3: A great storytelling and some opinions on all things well 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 3: basketball but also just stick of all sports. We continue 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 3: with Josh Lucas is our part two with the former 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 3: director of player personnel with Chicago Bears, and in part 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 3: one we talked about his turbulent past as a kid 9 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 3: grown up in Ohio. Took him to Harvard where he 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,279 Speaker 3: played football but for a very short period of time 11 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 3: because his body kind of failed him, and he eventually 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 3: found his way to Jacksonville and the NFL. That's kind 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 3: of where we left off and his story starts to 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 3: take a little bit of a turn. 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 4: But before we get to Josh, let's kind of recap 16 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 4: some wild times in college basket in terms of the 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 4: actual teams. I think about the week we've had already. 18 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 4: Now you go back on the weekend with Purdue losing, 19 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,919 Speaker 4: and during the week Yukon gets not beaten but blown 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 4: out by great by Guy cash Worth splash Worth. 21 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: Steven Ashworth. It's three after three and the Blue. 22 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 4: Jays show themselves to be at least partially the team 23 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 4: that so many of us expected them to be when 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 4: the preseason rankings came out. 25 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,839 Speaker 1: And some of this is about, you. 26 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 4: Know, styles, make the fight, and you're at home and 27 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 4: you're able to set the tempo and you're able to 28 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 4: kind of play your game. Some of it is, hey, 29 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 4: look they got an older veteran team and when they're 30 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 4: started hitting shots and they're playing their game, And some 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 4: of it is YUKHN didn't play well, didn't react well 32 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 4: to the university, and they've been playing at a magic level. 33 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: Right. 34 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 4: It's hard for a college kid to get done beating 35 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 4: you know, Marquette, who they think they have to beat 36 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 4: in order to win their league. And now you go 37 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,119 Speaker 4: to Creighton, who's been a little bit disappointing, and get 38 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 4: up to that same level, especially playing on the road. 39 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 4: So there's a lot of college basketball stuff to get to, right. 40 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 4: Purdue Yukon losing both of the road but losing a 41 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 4: lot of the turbulence with transfer portal and NIL coaches 42 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 4: speaking out about it, whether it's Rick Pictino talking about 43 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 4: his team, which he since apologized for, you kind of 44 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 4: name you go through, Mike Boyton talking about where Oklahoma 45 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 4: State sits with NIL in the Big Twelve, and it's 46 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 4: led to struggles in recruiting. 47 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: Coaches kind of. 48 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 4: Speaking out and calling out and pointing out that their 49 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 4: teams might not be as good as advertised. Has it 50 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 4: necessarily landed well with a lot of fans, But there's 51 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 4: also very few, if any lies that are told. And 52 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 4: so maybe it's like a pr list. We'll circle back, 53 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 4: we'll get to that. So in college basketball you got 54 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 4: just some craziness with the ups and downs, the ebbs 55 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 4: and flows, wins, the losses. You have the coaches trying 56 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 4: to figure out the new world order, and there's been 57 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 4: varying degrees of success b throughout the season or as 58 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 4: the season goes on. Younger teams are getting better. I 59 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 4: mentioned Oklahoma State. They just beat Cincinnati for their first 60 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 4: road win of the year UCLA, although they lost to 61 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 4: Utah at home. A blind man can see that mccronning 62 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 4: with his young crew, they're starting to figure it out, 63 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 4: as opposed to a team like in Indiana, which has 64 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 4: just been a complete thud. So you got all different 65 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 4: types of teams, different types of spending. In terms of nil, 66 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 4: you have some incredible stories. Let's first give a little 67 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 4: respect to the Mountain West. Backing up Sandyo State playing 68 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 4: for a national championship. With the type of year they're having, 69 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 4: where you could very I don't want to say easily, 70 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 4: but you could definitely see six teams getting into the 71 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 4: NCAA Tournament's true. Sixteen boys started out a little slow 72 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 4: this year, but man, they've come on strong. Utah State's 73 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 4: been the surprise of the league. We know what santi 74 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 4: of the State brings to the table. They'll make the 75 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 4: tournament where you see them, that's going to be hard. 76 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 4: You got Colorado State, which of course start out with 77 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 4: such a great start, then Hit'll Ull just lost to 78 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 4: New Mexico in a great game, speaking of New Mexican 79 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 4: and Mexico, and then you get Nevada. 80 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: I mean, incredible league. 81 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 4: And the other cool part about the league so many 82 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 4: of the games played in altitude, makes road games even harder, 83 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 4: but also amazing places to go to games. You know, 84 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 4: BAHAs is no longer new, it's twenty five years old, 85 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 4: but still really cool. 86 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: The pit. 87 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 4: To me is one of the iconic spots in all 88 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 4: of college basketball. Dee Glenn's Spectrum Events Center just called 89 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 4: the Spectrum to the folks and logan at Utah State 90 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 4: awesome place and kind of finally getting it's due with 91 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 4: Stu Morrell in his name on the court. You know, 92 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 4: Boise State's not like special as an arena, but as 93 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 4: a city, it's like the coolest city you'll never visit. 94 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: And they're really good. 95 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 4: Plus I love watching Max Rice and Tyson Dagenhart go 96 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 4: at it. 97 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: That have been buddies. 98 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 4: Forever, and Max Rice is like a He's literally like 99 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 4: a grown up playing with kids, not just in terms 100 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 4: of his age and his experience, but just the way 101 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 4: he carries himself being a coach's son of being around 102 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 4: it all this time. I mean, I tell you where 103 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 4: Wyoming's arena since it's been redone is awesome. I love 104 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 4: you know. I know that they need to redo it, 105 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 4: but movie is really cool in Colorado State. I mean, 106 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 4: they still have the hoops that come down from the 107 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 4: ceiling even on the sides, you know, leach your seating, 108 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 4: but they've. 109 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: Done a lot with a little and more than anything. 110 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 4: Like the arenas don't matter when they're full, they're full, 111 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 4: they're loud. 112 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: They're really really cool. Who am I forgetting? I loller 113 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. 114 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 4: Stan as the state No, uh Fresno got that thing 115 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 4: has just been disastrous since they went to the Save 116 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 4: Mart Center. It's too big, and obviously they're not great, 117 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 4: but it's just too big. 118 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: But those top teams. 119 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 4: Are outside of Nevada, which you know, it's a tough 120 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 4: place to play team that can really shoot older teams. 121 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 4: But in terms of the actual venues, basic amazing. And 122 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 4: now you have the teams to kind of match the venues, 123 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 4: and you got incredible crowd support. 124 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 2: And I'm not sure if it's the. 125 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 4: Success of Santa or state success of the league. The 126 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 4: fact that the league, well it's on TV, it's on 127 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 4: Fox Sports One, it's on ESPN, SUM, it's on CBS 128 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 4: WORTS Network. But it doesn't feel like TV has taken 129 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 4: away from those markets the way it has some programs, 130 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 4: you know, where every game being on TV kind of 131 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 4: diminishes it. 132 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 2: I don't know, they draw really well. 133 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 4: It's a great league and it's finally getting kind of 134 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 4: its due, and you know, I don't think it has 135 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 4: a team that will win a national championship, but it 136 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 4: wouldn't stun me to see the mount and West have 137 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 4: a couple of teams in the second weekend, something that 138 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 4: struggle to do so, but there's a discussion there to 139 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 4: have six teams in probably get five, definitely get four. 140 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 4: But you know, Mike, go through the Pac twelve and 141 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 4: try and find me. Even a second team like Washington 142 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 4: State's a great story, but even a second team that 143 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 4: belongs in the field. So the mount West to me 144 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 4: is probably the second most competitive. 145 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: Conference at the top with NCAA tournament teams. 146 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: Like that's a lot. 147 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 4: It's a big sentence, Doug, I get it. I mean, like, look, 148 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 4: do I think those teams are as good as frankly, 149 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 4: you know, even though the ACC is down like Duke 150 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 4: and killing no no, and they don't have the budget. 151 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 4: But the rest of the ACC was the kids say 152 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 4: they're mid, the kind of mid, kind of mid. But 153 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 4: then you have the Big twelve, which is a gauntlet. 154 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 4: Although should be pointed out, feels like Oklahoma's taking on 155 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 4: some water here. 156 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 2: They gotta they got a big they got a week off. 157 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 4: And they got a big win at Oklahoma State, a 158 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 4: game they probably should have lost at home. And Oklahoma 159 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 4: State's won I think three home games in a row 160 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 4: and now I don't won a road game. Feel with 161 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 4: some confidence, OU is the team that one team that 162 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 4: could slip on the bubble from the Big Twelve if 163 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 4: they're not careful. They had a very good non conference. 164 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 4: The problem is the teams that they beat in the 165 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 4: non conference, from Providence to Iowa to USC haven't had 166 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 4: particularly good years, so they don't look like as good 167 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 4: wins as they really were. Still the top of that league. 168 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 4: Houston probably gonna win the league. Kansas Tech, Baylor at BYU, 169 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 4: Just Baylor, they can really shoot the basketball. Oh holy 170 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 4: calculate when it's going in TCU And then you know, 171 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 4: you look at at a team like Oklahoma, I wondering 172 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 4: whether or not they'll they'll make the field, so kind 173 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 4: of similar there in the there was talk of nine 174 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 4: or ten Case State's not getting in. West Virginia's not 175 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 4: getting in Oklhan State's not getting in. 176 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 2: Cincinnati. 177 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 4: I don't believe it's getting in, but we're kind of 178 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 4: working use Central Floor's not getting in. 179 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 2: You know, then you got Texas sitting there. They'll get in, 180 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: but how dangerous are they? 181 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 4: And Texas's scheduled because of the expectations because the name 182 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 4: of Texas kind of backload gonna be difficult. How fascinated 183 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 4: by the Big Twelve, to me, it goes Big twelve 184 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 4: to one, Mountain West two Mountain I did say Mountain 185 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 4: West too, and then you know, you got the Big 186 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 4: East at the top is very good. The Big Ted 187 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 4: has one team kind of a low at the top, 188 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 4: but and a second group which is solid fine. SEC 189 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 4: crazy talented, I mean talent wise, probably the best league 190 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 4: athletic talent. That's why they're beating up on each other. 191 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 4: We just saw Kentucky lose to LSU. 192 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 2: And then you know, like I love Tennessee. 193 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 4: They've had some uneven performances like losing the South Carolina 194 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 4: at home, and then South Carolina's fought on hard times. 195 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 4: You got Alabama, Man, can they really score? They went 196 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 4: another game at home. SEC has a lot of talent 197 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 4: and somebody's because it's it's the richest conference and they 198 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 4: turn around and use that in NIL. It's got no 199 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 4: secret there. And then speaking of NIL, if you're listening 200 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 4: to this, you're probably a basketball guy or. 201 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: A basketball woman. You're all welcome. 202 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 4: We got to have a legit discussion about what this 203 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 4: offseason is going to look like. Because when the district 204 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 4: court judge struck down the NCAA's rule where you can't 205 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 4: limit second transfers for players. 206 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 2: It's sent shockwaves in college basket. 207 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 4: Because now if you can transfer a second time. 208 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: Without penalty, when can't you transfer? 209 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 4: And now with all the numbers being thrown around, whether 210 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 4: they're real or not, and you might. 211 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: Ask yourself, well, how are these numbers not real? I'll 212 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: tell you they calculate. Some schools will calculate the numbers. 213 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 4: They almost all calculate cost of attendance, your pel grant 214 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 4: if you can qualify for one Alston money, which is 215 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 4: like I think sixty five dollars sixty five a year, 216 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 4: ten months right a year, and Alston money can be 217 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 4: determined by each school some form of academic achievement whatever. 218 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 4: And remarkably, all these guys get Ulston money. You know, 219 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 4: they're all eligible and they're all getting us money. And 220 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 4: then you know, there's some shady stuff done with cars 221 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 4: where people will calculate the value of the car that 222 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 4: they'll give you to drive. 223 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: But it's not your car to key. 224 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 4: I mean, you look, you're driving of fifty sixty seventy 225 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 4: eighty thousand. 226 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: Dollars cars, sometimes a little bit more than that. 227 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 4: It's set your car, but that's all calculated into the 228 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 4: value of the package they're putting forward, even if you're 229 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 4: not keeping that car. 230 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: So what guys actually make I got no idea. 231 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 4: But that's how it's kind of all put together. And 232 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 4: now you start to wonder, Okay, are we going to 233 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 4: have a record setting number of players in the portal 234 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 4: because they can transfer and they all think they're going 235 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 4: to get more money elsewhere, and maybe they are. 236 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: Maybe they're not. 237 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 4: We live in absolutely crazy times and absolutely and I 238 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 4: do think the best thing you can do is hold 239 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 4: on your players. So it should be about retention and 240 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 4: you building these contracts, retention bonuses. 241 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: Question. 242 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 4: I don't know the answers, And then let's let's discuss 243 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 4: the Caitlin Clark. I don't have animus towards Jay Williams. 244 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 4: I really don't. I know his ghostwrider for his book, 245 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 4: and his book was a kind of a passion project 246 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 4: of his for years, and I didn't think he went 247 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 4: through some writers and he said some fairly unflattering things 248 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 4: about me in the book. What's crazy about it is 249 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 4: like I always had a good relationship with jaywill and 250 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 4: even after the book or when the book came out, 251 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 4: you know, he send me notes how much, how badly 252 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,079 Speaker 4: he wants to work with me, because we respect each 253 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 4: other and we have no problem going back and forth. 254 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 4: That said, he kind of stepped in it with the 255 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 4: Kaitlin Clark thing, and I actually agree with him if 256 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 4: his premise was Kaitlin Clark's not the greatest of all time. 257 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 4: But that's not what he said on the set of 258 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 4: Game Day. On the set of Game Day, he said, 259 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 4: I reserved great for people who win championships, which is 260 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 4: like straight out of the first Take book, right, and 261 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 4: there's no real playbook. 262 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: They just but you watch, you assimilate, you learn. 263 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: He's a bright guy. 264 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: He he knows the drill and he's been on those 265 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 2: shows before. 266 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 4: But he was also covering the NBA for a lot, 267 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 4: and it's a little bit more of an NBA mantra. 268 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 4: You know, if you're really the one of the all 269 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 4: time grades. 270 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: You gotta win a title. 271 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 2: College sports is so different, you know, it just. 272 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 4: Is I understand, like if you stay four years and 273 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 4: your team doesn't win, like I think it's a legit discussion. 274 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 4: When Ben Simmons team didn't make the NCAA tournament, that's 275 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 4: a legit discussion, Like are you really any good If 276 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 4: you can't lead your team to the NCAA tournament, you're 277 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 4: at LSU and you have a really good roster, like 278 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 4: it's I think the answer is you clearly aren't a 279 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 4: winning player and don't know at that point time. On 280 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 4: the other hand, you know, Ben Simmons was a freshman. 281 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 4: He didn't know it, like freshmen don't know anything. But 282 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 4: we've seen another freshman coming and figure it out, and 283 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 4: Carmel Anthony win a national championship, had a lot of 284 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 4: help and played for a Hall of Fame coach. But nonetheless, 285 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 4: we've seen guys contribute more. In terms of Caitlyn Clark, 286 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 4: like we're not giving her a pass. I was fine. 287 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 4: They're a good team, you know, They've always been a 288 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 4: twenty five win team or twenty to twenty five win team. 289 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 4: They got the national championship game, they beat a way 290 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 4: more talented South Carolina team and lost to a ridiculously 291 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 4: more talented LSU team, like LSU is an all star team. 292 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 4: And then they went out and added Haley dan Lift 293 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 4: this year. So the first thing is times have changed 294 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 4: in that, especially in the women's game, even in college baseball, 295 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 4: Like LSU was so loaded last year. 296 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: In college baseball. Noo is beating them. 297 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 4: They were so loaded last year in women's basketball, and 298 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 4: he's beating them. And the only thing that can beat 299 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 4: them now is chemistry, issue, is complacency, et cetera. But 300 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 4: it's Caitlyn Clark the greatest women's basketball player of all time? No, 301 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 4: I'm okay not saying that, you know, but is she 302 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 4: great by any metric? The thing that was interesting was 303 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 4: he talked about doing things that are iconic and you know, 304 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 4: our generational will last. And I'm like, well, if you're 305 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 4: the all time scoring leader in women's basketball, Like. 306 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 2: Isn't that a historic achievement? 307 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 4: So I think where Jaywill made a mistake, I'm gonna 308 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 4: give him a little bit of a pass yere is 309 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 4: he was talking about greatest of all time and he 310 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 4: won to pump the brakes if he was talking about 311 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 4: just being a great player at all time great in 312 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 4: women's college basketball at Katon Clark. 313 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 2: This isn't the University. 314 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 4: Of Detroit where you have a guy play with three 315 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 4: point shots and play a couple of years longer than 316 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 4: Pete Marivich and still not able to break the record 317 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 4: and have to buy games in the CBI in order 318 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 4: to do that. 319 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 2: That's what happened last year. 320 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 4: No, this is the woman who's in her fourth year 321 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 4: in college basketball, and she's been helped out with a 322 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 4: three point shop. But so Kelsey Plumb played during the 323 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 4: three point era and in season like she didn't even 324 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 4: have to in less games. She's the all time scoring 325 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 4: leader of women's college basketball. And when she leave the 326 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 4: country and assists and they win. They went to the 327 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 4: national championship game last year. So by any metrics, she's great. 328 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 4: Is she the greatest of all time? That subjective, I'd 329 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 4: probably agree, you know, with Brianna Stewart. She won four 330 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 4: national titles, but she played with a loaded team. 331 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 2: And I don't know. 332 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 4: I'm old enough to remember Cheryl Miller, ham Woodard the 333 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 4: other all time greats. But I'm not necessarily a great 334 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 4: judge because I haven't watched women's college basketball. I have 335 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 4: watched recently because I like watching Caitlyn Clark play. I 336 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 4: like the way that team passes the ball. I love 337 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 4: the fact that she's basically a check version of Steph Curry. Right, 338 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 4: she's like Sabrina and Escue captured some people's attention, but 339 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 4: Kaitlin Clark has captured everybody's tach Why well, because she 340 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 4: did it last year in the Final four, which is 341 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 4: something that great players do. So I if he meant 342 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 4: greatest of all time, he actually has a friendly place here. 343 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 2: For me to give him a pass. 344 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 4: If he mentioned if he means just being great, be 345 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 4: honest them and nobody agrees to you. 346 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 2: Let's get to Josh Lucas. Here's part two, an all ball. 347 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 5: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in 348 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 5: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio 349 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 5: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to 350 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 5: listen live. 351 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 6: You're at Harvard, you graduate, What was what was next? 352 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: What was the plan? 353 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 2: So? 354 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 7: When I finished school, I went through the normal rigors 355 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 7: of investment, banking interviews, consulting interviews, kind of the mainstream 356 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 7: what most Harvard kids do when they're done. And never 357 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 7: in my life, Dougia, I felt more of an imposter, 358 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 7: more of a fraud putting on those suits, sitting through 359 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,479 Speaker 7: those interviews, I had zero interest in the banking world 360 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 7: and in finance. My ambitions and goals were, you know, 361 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 7: We're never I'm going to be this super you know, 362 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 7: financially successful person, and and I think part of it 363 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 7: was I was scared too. Could I handle this? Could 364 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 7: I the way I feel physically and mentally? Could I 365 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 7: go to New York City and really work as an 366 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 7: investment banking analyst the hours and the stress and the competition. 367 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 7: And I looked. I looked for an easier software way. 368 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 7: I really did. I thought maybe if I could get 369 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 7: into sports, something that comes more natural to me, something 370 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 7: I was more passionate about, it would be an easier 371 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 7: fit for me. And so I spent just as much 372 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 7: time sending resumes out to NFL football teams. I sent 373 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 7: some stuff out to Major League Baseball teams and basketball 374 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 7: teams as well. Football was really where I focused, and 375 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 7: I was very fortunate to get to get a six 376 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 7: week internship in Jacksonville with the Jacksonville Jaguars the summer 377 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 7: that I graduated. No guarantees that it was going to 378 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 7: turn into anything, just six weeks, come down here. It's 379 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 7: basically a football ops intern and after that you're done. 380 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 7: And I had some buddies that lived in Jacksonville Beach, 381 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 7: so I said, hey, you know, I'll go down there 382 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 7: for six weeks and then I'll just go, you know, 383 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 7: hang out with them until I figure out what's next. 384 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 7: And I was very fortunate. At the end of that 385 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 7: six weeks they asked me to stay for the entire season, 386 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 7: and so I got to be a football ops intern 387 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 7: for the entire season in Jacksonville. This is my first 388 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 7: year out of college years. This is this is two 389 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 7: thousand and two, Tom Coughlin's last year in Jacksonville. I 390 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 7: was the horn boy at practice. I stood next to 391 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 7: Tom Coughlin and would blow the horn between each period. 392 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 7: And you don't mess up the horn with Tom Coughlin. 393 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 7: So I was would walk around paranoid and scared to 394 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 7: death for two hours every day making sure I didn't 395 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 7: mess up the horn. 396 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 4: Well, okay, so what was specific horn instructions? Was there 397 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 4: a length of time that the horn was supposed to 398 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 4: be be pressed for just a. 399 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 7: Short you know, one second blow as soon as the 400 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 7: period's over and you move them to the next period. 401 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 7: Can't be any simpler, hard to mess up. But every day, 402 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 7: two hours of practice, lots of periods. You know, there 403 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 7: was probably i'd say two to three times you know 404 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 7: during the year where I got the look and I 405 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 7: got the stare and got a few choice words said 406 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 7: to me. But for the most part, I think I 407 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 7: handled it well. 408 00:21:58,119 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 6: What what was he like? 409 00:21:59,560 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: I know? 410 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 6: That was the end of that. 411 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 4: And then he came back obviously with the with the Giants, 412 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 4: and they had great success early on with the Jags, 413 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 4: right going to the AFC Championship game. But he's always 414 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 4: been seen as a disciplinarian. That was that was always 415 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 4: like his m O. The weird part about it was, 416 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 4: I remember his last couple of years with the Giants, 417 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 4: They're like the most penalized team in the league. 418 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 6: So it's like, well, is he what's he really like? 419 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 7: So just one year obviously my first exposure to the NFL, 420 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 7: so you know, I don't know shit, I don't know 421 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 7: anything what I'm what I'm seeing, if this is normal 422 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 7: or not. If he felt very military, very general ish, 423 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 7: you know, not very approachable. Was the way I always 424 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,479 Speaker 7: you know, kind of sought it, you know, when I 425 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 7: was around him, like speak when spoken to. You know, 426 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 7: there was coaches on that staff where I felt I 427 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 7: could slide into their office and have a you know, 428 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 7: have a real converce station and shoot the ship. But 429 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 7: obviously I was never going to do that with the 430 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 7: head coach. So then what So that was the entire 431 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 7: you know, my first year out of college, and that 432 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 7: ended in around March. They fired the head coach, they 433 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 7: fired the personnel people. They kind of kept me around 434 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 7: to be the caddy to drive everybody around and to 435 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 7: make sure everyone got where they needed and then they 436 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 7: kind of let me know, Okay, you're done, your time's up. 437 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 6: What did what By the way, what did you make 438 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 6: that year in Jackson? 439 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 5: Oh? 440 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 7: That's I got a free rental car and they paid 441 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 7: me five hundred dollars a week. I remember that. 442 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 4: You had to be the lowest er to come out 443 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 4: of Harvard in two thousand and two, Like right, you know, 444 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 4: like average salaries. 445 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 7: You're like, oh, man, like let's. 446 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 6: Get out the highest and the lowest. 447 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 4: Let's let's get out Lucas because that that guy, he's 448 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 4: just killing us. 449 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 7: I had I had had a rental car because they 450 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 7: needed me to drive all the players around, you know, 451 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 7: to the physicals and to the workouts. And I was 452 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 7: staying basically for free on the beach with some friends, 453 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 7: making five hundred bucks a week. Honestly, I thought I 454 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 7: was rich. I thought I was killing it. But then 455 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 7: that ended, you know that that soon ended, and I 456 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 7: was down the beach doing the same deal. All thirty 457 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 7: one teams trying to get in did not get in. 458 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 7: After the draft, you know, after that year, and Jacksonville 459 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 7: was getting ready to host the first Super Bowl in 460 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 7: the franchise's history, super Bowl thirty nine. It was Philadelphia 461 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 7: and New England, and they were going to work on 462 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 7: basically a project to help raise funds for the improvements 463 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 7: that needed to be done to the stadium in order 464 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 7: to host the Super Bowl. So part of this project 465 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 7: was packaging Super Bowl tickets hotel rooms and parties, selling 466 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 7: them to these companies and wealthy individuals. And the money 467 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 7: they raised would help, you know, all set the cost 468 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 7: to the capital improvements to the stadium. And they needed workers. 469 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 7: And they asked me if i'd be interested in doing that, 470 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 7: and they said, hey, it'll keep you in the building. 471 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 7: You're not going to be doing anything with football. You're 472 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 7: going to be managing hotel rooms and guest lists and 473 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 7: party lists and doing ops work. And I said, hell, yeah, 474 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 7: you know, if it keeps me in the building, I'll 475 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 7: do it. And so that's what I ended up doing 476 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 7: for really the next year and a half. During that time, 477 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 7: they let me intern during the summertime in the football 478 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 7: person in the player personnel, So I got to meet 479 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 7: some scouts, got to meet some people that are decision makers, 480 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 7: and it helped bridge me to eventually my first full 481 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 7: time job. But yeah, those last two years in Jacksonville, 482 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 7: it was nothing to do with football. It was all 483 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 7: just yeah, it was It was about a year and 484 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 7: a half, you know, until until they hosted that Super Bowl. 485 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 7: And so do you want to talk about not making 486 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 7: a lot of money that that that year and a half, 487 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 7: you know, because I didn't have the car, I had 488 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 7: to get an apartment pay rent. So then that's when 489 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:20,719 Speaker 7: I was really feeling more squeezed. But honestly, I felt 490 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 7: I was on the right track because I was still 491 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 7: involved and I was close, and even though I was 492 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 7: on the perimeter, I had I had some feeling that, hey, 493 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 7: this is going to lead to a job at some point. 494 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 6: Okay, so how did you get was New Orleans is next? 495 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 4: Right? 496 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,959 Speaker 7: So after that job, that Super Bowl got played, So 497 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 7: that had been Super Bowl thirty nine and so obviously 498 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 7: the games played in early February, we kind of wrapped 499 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 7: up our duties and in probably the March, and I 500 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 7: just waited for the draft because I knew the hiring 501 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 7: and firing season for scouts was after the draft, and 502 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 7: after the draft, probably two or three weeks, same deal. 503 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 7: Nothing like, lots of phone calls, lots of maybes. I 504 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 7: just wanted to be a scouting assistant and get in somewhere. 505 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 7: And it came down doug till to like second third 506 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 7: week in May, where I was starting to call some 507 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 7: of my Harvard connections to say, Hey, maybe maybe banking 508 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 7: doesn't sound so bad, or maybe consulting might be a 509 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 7: good idea for me, because I knew at some point 510 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 7: I had to like really start making money. I remember, 511 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 7: I remember it to this day, sitting in my apartment 512 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 7: getting on Pro Football Talk and reading that the New 513 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 7: Orleans Saints had just lost a bunch of scouts they 514 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 7: had left on their own, and the director of college 515 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 7: scouting in New Orleans was a personnel director in Jacksonville 516 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 7: when I was in Jacksonville for three years. His name's 517 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 7: Rick right BSh, and so I had at least one 518 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 7: person I could call. I found out through a bunch 519 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 7: of people that they were going to bring in a 520 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 7: bunch of young guys to interview. They were going to 521 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 7: hire a couple of scouting assistants and a couple scouts, 522 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 7: and I just remember like if this is if I 523 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 7: don't get this, this is it, Like this is I'm done, 524 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 7: Like I got to go find something else. And New 525 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 7: Orleans flew me out and they hired me as a 526 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 7: scouting assistant. In two thousand and five, I moved to 527 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 7: New Orleans and in July of two thousand and five 528 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 7: was there for ten days and the Hurricane Katrina hit. 529 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 7: So that was my that was my welcome to New Orleans, 530 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 7: New Orleans, Jorans experience. 531 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 6: So where were you? 532 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 7: So I was? I evacuated with the team. We evacuated 533 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 7: to out s San Jose, California because we were playing 534 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 7: our final preseason game against Oakland on a Thursday, So 535 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 7: we evacuated out on Sunday or Monday before the store hit. 536 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 7: We spent you know, a good week out in California, 537 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 7: and then we relocated to San Antonio and spent the 538 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 7: entire season out in San Antonio. And that was that 539 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 7: was that was an experience, you know, practicing on high 540 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 7: school baseball fields. The team was a mess as you 541 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 7: can imagine, you know, it was it was the final 542 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 7: year of coach Haslet and the Aaron Brooks. There was 543 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 7: a lot of talent, but you could just imagine like 544 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 7: the dysfunction and how hard it is to keep a 545 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 7: team together amidst relocating to a different city. Like in 546 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 7: the middle of the season, you know, during the season, 547 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 7: we won our first game of the season at Carolina, 548 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 7: and I remember thinking it was going to be this special, 549 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 7: magical year, and we finished three and thirteen. 550 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: Much better, just you. 551 00:29:55,320 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 7: Know, transitioning from Aaron to to Drew Brees in consecutive years, commitment, 552 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 7: putting in the time, physically had all the ability in 553 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 7: the world. I was just there for one year and 554 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 7: it was a bad year. So it's it's probably not 555 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 7: you know, I'm probably not a great person to speak 556 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,239 Speaker 7: on it. And just from what I saw, it was 557 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 7: just so loose. I just saw a lot of guys 558 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 7: that were just kind of checked out, just to be 559 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 7: honest with you, and I felt, you know, he he 560 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 7: kind of was on that side. So that that's kind 561 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 7: of all I saw. Aaron Brooks, you know, and and 562 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 7: I he had some you know, good years in the 563 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 7: league and took that team to the playoffs. 564 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 4: So yeah, that was like their first playoff appearance. Okay, 565 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 4: so but when the coach gets fired, you gotta be like, 566 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 4: all right, I am, I gonna go have to pay 567 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 4: another job. 568 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 7: I wasn't too concerned. I had felt that I had gotten, 569 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 7: you know, gotten to know all the guys really well. 570 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,479 Speaker 7: In the personnel department. It was a young staff Mickey Loomis, 571 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,959 Speaker 7: who's still the GM, and knew Orleans was the GM. 572 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 7: And as soon as I knew he, you know, he 573 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 7: was the person that was going to be hiring the 574 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 7: next head coach. You know, I felt, I thought, okay, 575 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 7: as far as having some stability in New Orleans, I 576 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 7: thought I had made a good impression that year. And 577 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 7: you know, throughout all this time, I was still I 578 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 7: still felt these people that I knew I needed to 579 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 7: ask for help. And that's the gist of the whole, 580 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 7: the whole, the whole time I was at Harvard, the 581 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 7: whole time I was in Jacksonville, the beginning of my 582 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 7: New Orleans experience, I knew the way I felt on 583 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 7: a day to day basis was not healthy and not 584 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 7: allowing me to be my best. I was so terrified 585 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 7: to ask somebody for help because I didn't want him 586 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 7: to think I was defective, you know. I wanted to 587 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 7: be known as the bright Harvard young scout that had 588 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 7: this upward track, you know. 589 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 4: And so you say, don't you don't feel right? Like, 590 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 4: what if you can give me a appeal back to layer. 591 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 7: Obsessive, NonStop frightening thoughts, constantly worrying, oh, you name it, 592 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 7: anything that would. I could read a current event, you know, 593 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:24,239 Speaker 7: the you know, climate, climate change and the hurricanes going on. 594 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 7: I could read a story in the newspaper and it 595 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 7: would sit in my mind for weeks and and paralyze me, 596 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 7: and and it made it very difficult to do my 597 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 7: work physically. I felt extremely tight and uncomfortable. I got 598 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 7: to the point early on in my career in New 599 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 7: Orleans as a scouting assistant and as a as an 600 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 7: area scout where I'd wake up in the morning kind 601 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 7: of scared that, you know, can I get through this 602 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 7: day and do all this work? Just just just the 603 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 7: watching all the film, all the typing like can I 604 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 7: handle this? And then once that fear sets in, and 605 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 7: now you're just in this constant neurosis and worrying about 606 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 7: home all the time, worrying about my dad, worrying about 607 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 7: my brother. I can't explain it any other way, Doug 608 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 7: than it was NonStop, and and I really knew that 609 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 7: at some point I was gonna need to find a 610 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 7: way to change things, because there's no way I'm going 611 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 7: to be able to continue to live like this. And 612 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 7: and I think anyone around me, you know, I I 613 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 7: just did a really good job of of of portraying 614 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 7: that I was okay, that I was doing okay, and 615 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 7: that that things were all right. And as long as 616 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 7: I had a job in the NFL, and I was, 617 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 7: I was employed, and and you know, people thought that 618 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 7: was really cool and that I was doing okay. That 619 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 7: that's just how I existed and survived for several years. 620 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 6: So when when did you medicate yourself? 621 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 7: So I I mental health brought me to my knees 622 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 7: when I was thirty one years old. That's probably how 623 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 7: I Probably we won the Super Bowl in two thousand 624 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 7: and nine. The very next year. What would happen, Doug, 625 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 7: is every summer we'd get these three months off and 626 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 7: I would make all these changes and convince myself this 627 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 7: next year, I'm going to feel better mentally and physically. 628 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,800 Speaker 7: I would acupuncture, new massage, new trainer, new dial whatever 629 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 7: I could read that could help me feel better mentally 630 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 7: and physically, I would try it. And that's what I 631 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 7: would be obsessed with. And I remember, same pattern, same routine. 632 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 7: I get on the road. It's my very first week 633 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 7: on the road. I'm thirty years old, I'm in Oklahoma, 634 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 7: and I have to drive out to West Texas to 635 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 7: this is on school calls, you know, in August, so 636 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 7: training camp for college football. And I remember being on 637 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,439 Speaker 7: that drive out to West Texas and feeling that same 638 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 7: pain again in my in my lower back, in my hip, 639 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 7: same racing thoughts in my head, over and over again. 640 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 7: This is like day one. And I had my first 641 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 7: real full panic attack when I was at West Texas 642 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,720 Speaker 7: University the very next day. I remember interviewing a coach 643 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 7: asking him about one of the players, very standard interview, 644 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 7: and I remember he was talking and all I could 645 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,720 Speaker 7: see his face was his mouth moving, but I couldn't 646 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 7: hear anything. I couldn't hear what he was saying. I 647 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 7: couldn't make out what he was saying. And I knew 648 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 7: the trainer at West Texas really nit wherell Seth and 649 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 7: I went downstairs and I told him, I said, hey, 650 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 7: I don't I don't feel right. Something's going on. They tested, 651 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 7: but they took me to like the actual nurse's office. 652 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 7: They tested my blood pressure, they gave me like a 653 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 7: granola bardi blah blah blah, and you know, I went 654 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 7: out to the practice field and and didn't feel right 655 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 7: at all, but told him I was okay off and 656 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 7: I end up leaving and I drove from West Texas 657 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 7: to Lubbock, and as soon as I got to Lubbock, Texas, 658 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 7: I drove straight to the hospital. I checked myself in 659 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 7: and said, I don't know what's wrong with me, but 660 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,879 Speaker 7: I can't go another day living like this. I don't 661 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 7: know if it's my heart, I don't know what it is. 662 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,399 Speaker 7: And they thought I might be having like some kind 663 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 7: of heart condition, so they rushed me to the back 664 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 7: and I spent eight hours in that emergency room that night, 665 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 7: and I probably know more than that. I was probably 666 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 7: ten or twelve, and went through a battery of tests, 667 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,439 Speaker 7: all kinds of tests, and doctor came to my bed 668 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 7: at two am in the morning and he looked at 669 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 7: me and he said, I got good news and I 670 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 7: got bad news. And he said, the good news is 671 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 7: you're perfectly healthy. He's like, the bad news is you 672 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 7: need a lot of help. You need somebody to talk 673 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 7: to you because there's a lot of stuff that is 674 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 7: causing this stress and anxiety. As anybody ever told you 675 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,280 Speaker 7: about the anxiety. And I said, no, I've always felt 676 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 7: like this. I just I've gotten to the point where 677 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 7: I can't deal with it anymore. And that doctor looked 678 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 7: at me and said, you need to call the New 679 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 7: Orleans Saints and tell him you're gonna need, you know, 680 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 7: four to six weeks off of work. This is what 681 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 7: I'm recommending for. 682 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 4: You. 683 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 7: Go back to Dallas because that's where my home base was. 684 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 7: Find a doctor and find a therapist. And you need 685 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 7: to get this under wraps because it's just going to 686 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 7: get worse if you don't start talking and you don't 687 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 7: start getting some therapy. And he said, I'm going to 688 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 7: give you two prescriptions, and this is just for these 689 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,280 Speaker 7: next four to six weeks. This is just a crutch 690 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 7: until you get the help that you need. And he 691 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 7: gave me a prescription of kalanapin for my anxiety. And 692 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 7: he gave me a prescription of Norco for all the 693 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 7: pain that I was having in my low back and 694 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 7: my hip when I was driving and never had taken 695 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 7: klonopin before. Obviously I had exposure to pain pills in 696 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 7: the past. And he told me, when I go back 697 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 7: to the hotel, drive back to Dallas, when you wake 698 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 7: up and and start getting some help. And I drove 699 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 7: to the hotel, got the prescriptions filled in the morning, 700 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 7: took a kalanapin, and took the Norco within thirty minutes. 701 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 7: Never felt better in my life. Drove to Lubbock, did 702 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 7: the school call, worked for eight hours, felt amazing. Drove 703 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 7: back to Dallas. Didn't say a word to anybody at 704 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 7: the Saints, didn't look for help. I just looked for 705 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 7: a doctor that would prescribe me that medication. And for 706 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,760 Speaker 7: the next eighteen months I've it was the most clear, 707 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 7: the most the most serene, the most peaceful I'd ever felt. 708 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,879 Speaker 7: I was very open to people about what I had 709 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 7: found and these are the medications I was taking, and 710 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 7: this has really helped me. To my wife, to my dad, 711 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 7: to the people you know that worked close to me. 712 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 7: I didn't hide anything from anyone, and I was a 713 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,759 Speaker 7: the impression that I was cured, that my issues and 714 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,959 Speaker 7: all this stress and all this anxiety was done. And 715 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 7: for the next next eighteen months it was you know, 716 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 7: I got promoted at work. I remember thinking like, all 717 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 7: these things that were holding me back in my life 718 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 7: are now over. And then it got to this point 719 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 7: where what they were prescribing wasn't meeting like the way 720 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 7: I needed to feel every day. And I went into 721 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 7: the doctor's office and I talked to the doctor in 722 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 7: Dallas and said, you know, hey, I need more like 723 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 7: it's not I don't feel the same as I did 724 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 7: when I first started taking it, and and she she 725 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 7: was like, no, you need to start taking less. And 726 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 7: this is where kind of for me. I, instead of 727 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 7: really bearing down and reaching out for help, I went 728 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 7: off on my own and I started buying, you know, 729 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 7: prescription paint pills on the street. 730 00:39:58,239 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 6: And how how do you do it? 731 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 7: Just through friends? Through you know, talking to people at 732 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 7: the gym, We like. 733 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 4: How like, I mean, I've been I've been to one 734 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 4: hundred gyms. No one's ever gone like a man like, 735 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 4: how do you how do you know somebody might be 736 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 4: the hook up? 737 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: Oh? 738 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 7: I mean the very first person I bought them from. 739 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 7: You know, was someone that was in Dallas that we 740 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 7: talked about it openly, you know, at the gym, because 741 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 7: I used obviously was using the Norcoe for for several 742 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 7: months prior to ever, like really buying them legally or 743 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 7: like buying them off the street. I had some friends 744 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 7: that in Jacksonville that I knew used them. You know, 745 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 7: I knew enough people that that had connection to them, 746 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,399 Speaker 7: and and that's when I started buying them. And that's 747 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 7: when my life really started to take a turn for 748 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 7: the worse. 749 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 2: And like what. 750 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:57,840 Speaker 7: You know I was. I was a functioning addict, you know, 751 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 7: from thirty one years old until May of twenty seventeen, 752 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 7: you know, for about seven eight years there where my 753 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:15,359 Speaker 7: life became how do I make sure I have enough 754 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 7: medication to function through the dame? And that's all my 755 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,720 Speaker 7: life was. I isolated, I separated from all my friends. 756 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 7: You know, I was married, and obviously you know, she 757 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 7: knew something was up. I hit her. I hit it 758 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 7: from her house. Serious it was, And that's what my 759 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 7: life became. Just a survival mode, like making sure I 760 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 7: have enough medication to feel okay and make sure I 761 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 7: can get my job done. That was the bottom line, 762 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 7: Like I disassociated from a lot of friends and through 763 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 7: all this, you know, was a promotion to become the 764 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 7: personnel director with the Bears. 765 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,920 Speaker 4: All right, that's it for Josh lucas Part two. We'll 766 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 4: drop part three very very soon. I remind you can 767 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,280 Speaker 4: listen to the Doug gottlib Show three to five Eastern. 768 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 4: We also have an hour pod on that. So just 769 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 4: happened Doug Gottlieb. And if you like this stuff, if 770 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 4: you like this content, there's a lot more of it. 771 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is Zubble.