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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space, It's okay

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Speaker 1: not to be okay, just don't stay there for too long.

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Speaker 1: And there are avenues and paths to get you to

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Speaker 1: your well being and to get you to a place

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Speaker 1: where you can truly experience joy and happiness and all

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Speaker 1: the things that I believe we are intended to experience

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Speaker 1: on this earth.

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Speaker 2: Hey, lady, have you ever felt like the world just

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Speaker 2: doesn't get you? Well, we do.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, the podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 3: and empowering women like you.

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Speaker 2: We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Brussard, and educator and psychologists.

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Speaker 3: And Terry Lomax, a techie and transformational speaker.

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Speaker 2: Join us every week for authentic conversations about everything from

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Speaker 2: fibroids to fake friends as we create space for black

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Speaker 2: women to just be.

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Speaker 3: Before we dive in, make sure you hit that follow

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Speaker 3: button and leave us a quick five star review.

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Speaker 1: Lady.

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Speaker 3: We are black founded and black owned, and your support

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Speaker 3: will help us reach even more women like you.

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Speaker 2: Now, let's get into this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 3: If you want more speaking engagements, collaborations, or visibility for

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Speaker 3: your brand, I gotta tell you the truth. This is

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Speaker 3: Terry Lomax and I've been a public speaker for over

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Speaker 3: twelve years. I've landed national media, a Ted Talk, and

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Speaker 3: six figure collaborations without a publicist or a big social

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Speaker 3: media following. And here's what most people don't hear. You

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Speaker 3: don't need a publicist or a massive audience to get booked.

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Speaker 3: Most people are waiting to feel established first, and that

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Speaker 3: waiting is costing them visibility. How many times have you

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Speaker 3: looked up and seeing people with less experience getting opportunities

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Speaker 3: you were fully qualified for.

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Speaker 1: Here's the truth.

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Speaker 3: Opportunities don't go to the most qualified, They go to

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Speaker 3: the people who can clearly communicate their Once I learned

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Speaker 3: how to organize my story and position my expertise using

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Speaker 3: a framework, everything changed. If you want my exact pitch emails,

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Speaker 3: word for word, my winning subject lines, and the Saucy

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Speaker 3: Solutions framework, visit get that pitch dot Com for a

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Speaker 3: limited time use cold her Space for a special listener discount.

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Speaker 3: If this is your year to stop hiding and start

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Speaker 3: getting booked, I'll see you inside. Visit get that pitch

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Speaker 3: dot com or click the link in our show notes. Lady,

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Speaker 3: Today we have a very special guest who could change

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Speaker 3: your whole life. Okay, so stay tuned. Ashley McGirt adair

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Speaker 3: is a renowned psychotherapist, international TENEC speaker, author, and the

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Speaker 3: visionary founder and CEO of the Therapy Fund Foundation, a

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Speaker 3: nonprofit focused on eliminating barriers to mental healthcare in black

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Speaker 3: and historically excluded communities. With a passion for equity and healing,

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Speaker 3: Ashley has become a sought after speaker and expert in trauma,

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Speaker 3: racial healing, leadership, health equity, mental health and self care.

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Speaker 3: Building on this work in her forthcoming book, The Cost

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Speaker 3: of Healing and Silence, Navigating Racial Trauma and the Call

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Speaker 3: for Culturally Responsive Care, which comes out March thirty first,

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty six. She blends research, personal narrative, and clinical

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Speaker 3: insight to challenge the systemic inequities and inspire collective healing.

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Speaker 3: There is so much more that we could say about Ashley.

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Speaker 3: Her bio is impressive, but we're gonna let you hear

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Speaker 3: from her words. Ashley, welcome to cultivating her space. Thank

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Speaker 3: you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: You're so welcome.

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Speaker 2: We are so looking forward to this conversation. I know

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Speaker 2: that as a therapist myself. There are lots of things

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Speaker 2: that need to be said. And I know just from

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Speaker 2: looking at your social media, looking at your websites like

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Speaker 2: it is you are, you are saying the things that

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Speaker 2: need to be said. And so this is going to

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Speaker 2: be a really good conversation. And so our quote of

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Speaker 2: the day, Ashley, this quote will sound familiar to you

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Speaker 2: because these are your words. We pulled this quote from

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Speaker 2: your post on World Mental Health Day. We need access,

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Speaker 2: equity and action that ensures healing isn't a privilege, it's

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Speaker 2: a right. So I'm going to say that one more

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Speaker 2: time for the folks in the back to make sure

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Speaker 2: that we soak that in. We need access, equity and

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Speaker 2: action that ensures that healing isn't a privilege, it's a right.

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Speaker 1: Ashley. I hear that.

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Speaker 2: Quote and for me, it fully embodies what I see

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Speaker 2: of the work that you do. But when you hear

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Speaker 2: your words reflected back to you, what comes up for you.

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Speaker 1: It's an embodiment of everything that I do. It's why

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Speaker 1: I'm here, my purpose. Initially starting out, I was really

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Speaker 1: interested in law, wanted to be a lawyer. I was

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Speaker 1: obsessed with Johnny Cochrane just growing up during that time

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Speaker 1: during the watching the oj trial. But due to my

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Speaker 1: own struggles with mental health, I was let down the

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Speaker 1: path of psychology, mental health, and therapy. And in going

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Speaker 1: down that path, I learned that it wasn't equitable. It

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Speaker 1: was a privilege. It was typically something left for the wealthy,

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Speaker 1: for white community members, and when we sought care, when

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Speaker 1: we sought to seek our own healing, there were so

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Speaker 1: many barriers and blockades. So I really live and breathe

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Speaker 1: that quote because I want it to be accessible for us.

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Speaker 1: I want it to be equitable for everybody, and it's

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Speaker 1: something that each and every one of us living and

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Speaker 1: breathing on this earth should have access to. We should

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Speaker 1: have access to wellness, to well being, to sound mental

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Speaker 1: health services. And so it's just a reminder of my

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Speaker 1: why and why I do this work. So when I

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Speaker 1: hear you repeat those words back to me, it's just

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Speaker 1: a living testament of why I'm still here, why I'm

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Speaker 1: doing this work and on my journey.

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Speaker 3: Love that so much, Ashley. Your work is so needed

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Speaker 3: as well. I think about just where we were with

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Speaker 3: therapy years ago, like when I was younger, therapy, like

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Speaker 3: you said, it was not something that many of us

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Speaker 3: were open and had access to like we weren't, you know,

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Speaker 3: we didn't have it accessible. It was also shunned in

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Speaker 3: any ways. Right, that's for white people and things of

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Speaker 3: that nature. So and so we're going to get into

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Speaker 3: your orgin story. But first, one of the things that

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Speaker 3: we love to do on our show is we love

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Speaker 3: to really just let the show unfold, go with the flow.

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Speaker 1: So let's spirit lead is what we say.

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Speaker 3: And so if you think about someone who's listening to

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Speaker 3: this episode, and maybe they didn't know that they needed

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Speaker 3: this conversation at this moment, it's something that you would

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Speaker 3: want them to walk away with at the end of

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Speaker 3: this conversation or by the end of the conversation.

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Speaker 1: I would want them to know that there are culturally

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Speaker 1: responsive clinicians out there doing the work, and to not

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Speaker 1: give up, and that there's more than one path to

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Speaker 1: healing and well being. While I am a therapist and

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Speaker 1: I fully promote and support going to therapy, there's other

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Speaker 1: ways to wellness, other avenues, And whoever is listening to this,

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Speaker 1: I would want them to not give up in their journey.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they're in a dark place right now and they

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Speaker 1: just so happen to come upon this podcast, this episode,

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Speaker 1: and they're hearing these words. I want them to know,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's okay not to be okay, just don't

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Speaker 1: stay there for too long. And there are avenues and

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Speaker 1: paths to get you to your well being and to

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Speaker 1: get you to a place where you can try really

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Speaker 1: experience joy and happiness and all the things that I

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Speaker 1: believe we are intended to experience on this earth.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much for that. Okay, So let's

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Speaker 2: dive into learning about who Ashley is. Like, who is

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Speaker 2: Ashley McGirt adare that sits here in front of us today?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Who is Ashley? I am really just a lover

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Speaker 1: of life And it took me some time to get

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Speaker 1: there because I didn't always love life, which that's why

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Speaker 1: I do this work, because of my experiences with grief

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Speaker 1: that turned into depression and suicidal ideation. And I'm really

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Speaker 1: just a deeply curious human. I love to explore and travel.

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Speaker 1: I've been to over sixty countries and I just you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a person who wants to meet new people, experience

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Speaker 1: new things, try new food. I love people. I love animals,

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Speaker 1: especially sea turtles. Y'all can't see right now? But all

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Speaker 1: throughout my space, I have sea turtles everywhere. In every

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Speaker 1: country that I go to, I collect some type of

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Speaker 1: sea turtle. Whether it's a small shell, replica, a shot glass,

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Speaker 1: it's always going to have a sea turtle on it,

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Speaker 1: a pin, a journal, And I feel deeply connected to

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Speaker 1: the life of sea turtles because if you don't know

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Speaker 1: anything about sea turtles, only one in one thousand actually

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Speaker 1: survives the track from land to sea and you can't

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Speaker 1: help them. Crabs eat them, people step on them. It's

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Speaker 1: a very treacherous trek from land to sea, and only

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Speaker 1: a few survive. And so that's really who I am,

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Speaker 1: a sea turtle who made the track from land to

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Speaker 1: sea and is still just swimming in the ocean and

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Speaker 1: exploring and always going to my next venture. Everything that

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Speaker 1: I do is really rooted in social justice and the

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Speaker 1: black experience, uplifting black communities and other communities that have

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Speaker 1: been historically excluded from care. That's so beautiful. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for that listening about sea turtles.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm going to go research sea turtles and I

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Speaker 3: might have my own little passion for sea turtles.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: That was such a beautiful story, And I guess when

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Speaker 3: you think about you know, you talking about you being

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Speaker 3: one of those sea turtles that was making that trek

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Speaker 3: to water. What would you say, was like one of

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Speaker 3: those experiences that you had maybe early in life or

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Speaker 3: early in your career. That was a pivotal moment that

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Speaker 3: we made you decide to do this work.

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Speaker 1: Well, the big pivotal moment was the loss of my grandmother.

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Speaker 1: So I was raised by my grandma, just a product

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Speaker 1: of the eighties, early nineties, born into a public health

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Speaker 1: crisis before it was labeled as such. I think about

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Speaker 1: things that are going on today and who's mostly impacted

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Speaker 1: by it, and they get labeled as a public health

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Speaker 1: crisis and we get all the resources. Unfortunately, the time

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Speaker 1: that I was growing up, people who were in my

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Speaker 1: situation were criminalized, you know, incarcerated, all of these different things.

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Speaker 1: There weren't resources available to people who looked like you

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Speaker 1: and I, And so that was one of the big

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Speaker 1: pivotal moments, losing my grandmother and just kind of feeling

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Speaker 1: really alone and isolated and then having to navigate this

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Speaker 1: world as a young person. I went from living with

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Speaker 1: my grandmother in Tacoma in the Hilltop, it's an area

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Speaker 1: in Washington state, which was predominantly black, and during the

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Speaker 1: early nineties it was actually murder capital of the United States.

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Speaker 1: So it was a very very small community, high crime rates,

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Speaker 1: like more than you know the places we typically hear

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Speaker 1: about Saint Louis, you know, Inglewood, all of these different

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Speaker 1: places that are historically just overrun with poverty and crime,

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Speaker 1: and so growing up in that area and then moving

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Speaker 1: to the suburbs of Bearing, and I was the darkest

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Speaker 1: person in that area. And my brother, my younger brother,

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Speaker 1: he's half white, so you know, he was phenomenaly just

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Speaker 1: mixed curly hair. So you see me, you see my brother,

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Speaker 1: and the people in the community didn't really know what

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Speaker 1: to do with us. And so here we are, young

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Speaker 1: people trying to navigate this space as people of color,

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Speaker 1: just transitioning from a neighborhood where we did see people

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Speaker 1: who looked like us, but it was a neighborhood ridden

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Speaker 1: with crimes, drugs, and poverty. And then we go to

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Speaker 1: this other neighborhood. You know, they want to touch your hair,

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Speaker 1: ask you all kinds of questions, treat you kind of

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Speaker 1: like an animal, so to speak, that's on display because

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Speaker 1: they haven't ever seen anybody who looked like you. And

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Speaker 1: so those experiences, which was from the loss of my grandmother,

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Speaker 1: really shaped the work that I am and the person

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Speaker 1: that I am today. Having grown up in two very

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Speaker 1: different environments, one that was predominantly black and then one

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Speaker 1: that was predominantly white, and having to really just educate

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Speaker 1: folks at nine years old on race relations in America,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, this can't really be life.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, wow, thank you for sharing that. And so

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Speaker 2: here you are, fast forward from those childhood experiences and

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Speaker 2: here you are today as a psychotherapist, and you have

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Speaker 2: founded the Therapy Fund Foundation. As we writ in your

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Speaker 2: bio at the beginning, you have a book coming out,

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Speaker 2: and so tell us what inspired you to found the

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Speaker 2: Therapy Fund Foundation and tell us what it is for

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Speaker 2: listeners who aren't familiar.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, the Therapy Fund Foundation is a five oh

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Speaker 1: one C three that's dedicated toward eliminating barriers healing within

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Speaker 1: black communities, and so we tackle every barrier there is.

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Speaker 1: Most people know us for providing free therapy to black

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Speaker 1: community members, especially since our name Therapy Fund Foundation, but

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Speaker 1: we also have the McGirt Adair Scholarship Fund, which provides

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Speaker 1: funding to increase the number of black clinicians in the field.

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Speaker 1: We just gave away sixty thousand dollars this month and

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Speaker 1: we as thank you. We also have a peer support

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Speaker 1: program as well, because we know that those with lived

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Speaker 1: experiences can sit with you in a way maybe I

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Speaker 1: cannot just because I have the letters and the accolades

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Speaker 1: behind my name. We really pride ourselves also in our

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Speaker 1: youth healing, our youth wellness programs. We also have the

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Speaker 1: only BIPOC led mental health conference on the entire West Coast,

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Speaker 1: which is dedicated toward improving mental health outcomes for people

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Speaker 1: of color. We host that every July during BIPOC Mental

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Speaker 1: Health Awareness Month. And the inspiration behind the Therapy Fund

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Speaker 1: Foundation came from me doing this work being in community.

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Speaker 1: I serve as the healthcare of the NAACP for Alaska, Washington,

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Speaker 1: and Oregon. And twenty twenty, when the pandemic happened, everybody

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Speaker 1: was grieving. Everybody experienced some sort of loss and was

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Speaker 1: recognizing what grief feels like. And then add that on

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Speaker 1: with exacerbated racial stressors, the George Floyd protests, and people

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Speaker 1: were seeking a black therapist. They were calling me, they

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Speaker 1: were calling my peers and being a black therapist, you're

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Speaker 1: like a unicorn. And then when folks found us, they

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Speaker 1: couldn't afford us, and that burden to provide free services

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Speaker 1: was put on clinicians, and people kept asking me what

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Speaker 1: can I do to how black people during this time

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Speaker 1: every time I had a talk on race, racial trauma,

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Speaker 1: some of the different workshops that I provide, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, you can pay for black people to

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Speaker 1: get free therapy because my community members are struggling. And

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Speaker 1: then clinicians are having to offer pro bono rates extremely

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Speaker 1: low discounted services. Let's not talk about the low reimbursement

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Speaker 1: rates from insurance companies and how they do us and

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Speaker 1: all of the difficult paperwork. And so I wanted to

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Speaker 1: make a way for this to be accessible. And this

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Speaker 1: guy he sent me ten thousand dollars and I posted

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Speaker 1: on LinkedIn. I was like, hey, I just got ten

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars to support black community members with free therapy.

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Speaker 1: And people were commenting and they were like, I want

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Speaker 1: to give as well. How can I give to you?

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Speaker 1: So I made a GoFundMe, the go fund me, and

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Speaker 1: made almost one hundred thousand dollars in less than twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours. Wow, Oh my god, that's a living And

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Speaker 1: then the Seattle storm, they reached out and they were like,

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Speaker 1: we want to honor you and give you thirty thousand dollars,

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Speaker 1: but we only support nonprofits. So we're trying to find

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Speaker 1: a way and how we can support the work that

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Speaker 1: you're doing. But typically, you know, we only give to

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Speaker 1: five oh one c threes. So of course, back to

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Speaker 1: social media, I shared that and I got so many

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Speaker 1: messages from people offering a fiscally sponsor for me. And

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Speaker 1: I do hard things. It's something I'm working on in

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Speaker 1: my own mental health journey. Don't ask me why I

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Speaker 1: continue to do hard things. So I was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I could probably start a nonprofit. Let me figure this out.

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Speaker 1: So that was May twenty twenty. We became an official

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Speaker 1: nonprofit August twenty twenty and we just celebrated our five

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Speaker 1: years and really it was just from the community rallying around,

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Speaker 1: folks wanting to support. And then when I learned, I

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Speaker 1: was I have worked for nonprofits before, and at that time,

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Speaker 1: I was actually a hospice therapist for Providence Hospice of Seattle,

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Speaker 1: which is a nonprofit, and I was like, I could

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Speaker 1: probably figure this out. You have to create you know,

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Speaker 1: your board, your bylaws, your articles of incorporation. And that's

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Speaker 1: when I was like, well, what is the mission going

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Speaker 1: to be. This has to be bigger than giving away

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Speaker 1: free therapy. And that's when I came up with I

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Speaker 1: want to eliminate barriers to healing from my people. And

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Speaker 1: then we created the programs and here we are today,

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Speaker 1: five years later. Congratulations on five years.

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Speaker 3: And just thinking about I think March twenty twenty was

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Speaker 3: a time when we all realize like, wait a second,

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Speaker 3: something's going on this COVID thing. Until three months after

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Speaker 3: that you all were launching this foundation. It sounds like

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Speaker 3: in May. Okay, So I guess the first question I have.

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Speaker 3: There's so many questions I'm sure Dom and I both have,

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Speaker 3: but the first question here is how can people tap

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Speaker 3: into the resource today? Like I'm thinking about the person

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Speaker 3: listening who's like, wait, free therapy funding, I can get

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Speaker 3: some help.

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Speaker 1: I need the help.

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Speaker 3: What do they do today to access anything that you're offering.

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Speaker 1: Well, in order to access free therapy, you have to

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Speaker 1: have a therapist. And so that's the big peace that

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Speaker 1: gets people. You're gonna have somebody to pay, so you

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Speaker 1: have to find a therapist. And we do have a

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Speaker 1: directory of clinicians on our list that have all been

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Speaker 1: verted to ensure that they're practicing from an anti oppressive

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Speaker 1: psycotherapeutic lens. We don't accept everybody. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: they try to apply. We don't want this to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, a Teach for America program where you get

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Speaker 1: to sign up and say you've served black community members.

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Speaker 1: You have to do Yeah, you have to have a

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Speaker 1: proven history of having worked with black communities, understand the

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Speaker 1: impact that racism has on our mental health. You have

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Speaker 1: to understand other theoretical approaches outside of your traditional Sigmund

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Speaker 1: Freud's PJ. Watson. Do you know about Kenneth and Mammy

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Speaker 1: Clark and the Doll studies? Do you know about doctor

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Speaker 1: Joydgruz post traumatic slave syndrome? Do you know about doctor

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Speaker 1: Beverly Tatums? Why are all the black children sitting together?

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Speaker 1: Do you know who the first black psychologist was? All

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Speaker 1: of these different things, And so we do turn folks

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Speaker 1: away clinicians who apply with us, but we give them

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Speaker 1: the tools and the resources. We often recommend they attend

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Speaker 1: the People's Institute on Undoing Institutional racism. That's one of

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Speaker 1: the best trainings that I've attended, and so it's something

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Speaker 1: that you could do. If you're a clinician who has

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Speaker 1: doesn't have any experience with that's work, you could take

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Speaker 1: that training, you know, go out do some work within

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Speaker 1: black communities and then come back and reapply. Also attend

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Speaker 1: our conferences where we provide continuing education courses. But that's

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Speaker 1: a long way of me saying, find a therapist, check

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Speaker 1: our directory. If you already have a therapist that's not

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Speaker 1: on our directory, then that therapist would then just have

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Speaker 1: to apply and go through the process and answer the

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Speaker 1: questions as well, so that we can ensure they're practicing

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Speaker 1: from the lens in which we want to approve our

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Speaker 1: providers from. So that's one particular way. We also have

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Speaker 1: virtual workshops. We have workshops that take place in San Diego,

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Speaker 1: all across Washington State as well. Sometimes we do differing

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Speaker 1: things as well. We did a conference in New York.

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Speaker 1: We go to North Carolina regularly for the Black Mental

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Speaker 1: Health Conference, and so our outreach team is all around

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Speaker 1: providing advocacy education. You can go to our website access videos.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the workshops that we do we post

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Speaker 1: on our YouTube, like we had a workshop on healing

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Speaker 1: Colorism in Black Families with doctor Sarah Webb. That's available

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Speaker 1: on our YouTube. Different things like that. We have stuff

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Speaker 1: around financial literacy with doctor Pamela Gurley, and so we

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Speaker 1: provide these and make them accessible to those who may

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Speaker 1: not be able to get direct in person access. So

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Speaker 1: that's another way you could tap in with us. In

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Speaker 1: our book club, we have a Healing Shelf book club,

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Speaker 1: and so this month we are starting off with how

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Speaker 1: Black History Can Save Your Life by Ernest Krem.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Wow, oh my gosh, Ashley, this resource, like all of

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Speaker 2: what you all are providing, is so amazing and so needed.

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Speaker 2: So a couple of quick questions. So I know that

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Speaker 2: you said that you are based in Washington and in California.

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Speaker 2: If someone is listening and they're in Alabama and they're like, well,

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Speaker 2: there's not that many black therapists in Alabama, Yeah, how

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Speaker 2: can they sign up? Are their providers that are part

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Speaker 2: of your network that are licensed nationally?

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Speaker 1: There are I'm not sure if we have any in Alabama.

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Speaker 1: I would have to type in a zip code and check,

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Speaker 1: and I would I always encourage folks to go to

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot Com. Start there, type in

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Speaker 1: their zip code, and then have that clinician apply to

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Speaker 1: be within our network that way. And then also I'm

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Speaker 1: a part of a lot of different black clinician groups.

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Speaker 1: We have our own private clinician groups. And then we'll

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Speaker 1: make a post like, you know, any therapists in Alabama

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Speaker 1: and Mobile or you know, they could be. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter where they are if they're going to provide virtual

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Speaker 1: as long as you're within that state. But it just depends.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know per se if we have anyone

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Speaker 1: in Alabama, but if we don't, you know, then of

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Speaker 1: course just have them apply to be within our network.

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Speaker 1: And then when it comes to funding outside of California

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Speaker 1: and Washington, our primary funding source is in those two locations.

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Speaker 1: So we're doing a lot of fundraising because we have

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Speaker 1: to be able to pay clinicians. And part of the

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Speaker 1: thing that a lot of people miss is that we

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Speaker 1: do not discount and provide low rates. We pay our

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Speaker 1: clinicians a very high rate, and so we have to

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Speaker 1: ensure that we could pay a market level rate across

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Speaker 1: the entire United States. Clinicians in New York, you know,

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Speaker 1: they're higher around three hundred dollars an hour, whereas in

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Speaker 1: other places the average may be eighty to one hundred dollars.

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Speaker 1: So we're looking at the market in each of these

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Speaker 1: different places, and then we're fundraising getting grants to be

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Speaker 1: able to provide those services. So right now, we only

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Speaker 1: really have a fund to support black women across the

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Speaker 1: entire United States who have been let go due to

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Speaker 1: federal government cuts in all of those things, with the

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Speaker 1: three hundred thousand plus Black women that are currently UNIMPO.

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Speaker 3: Lloyd, you were out here doing the Lord's work, Okay, Like,

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Speaker 3: oh my good, I'm blown away. And I guess one

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Speaker 3: of the other questions I want to ask you is,

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking about black women who are doing things or

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Speaker 3: who feel called to do things in the world that

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Speaker 3: have not been done before. And I've never heard of

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Speaker 3: like everything that you have going on. I'm like, I've

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Speaker 3: never heard of this before for our community in this way,

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Speaker 3: you know, the way that you're doing it. And so

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Speaker 3: what would you say were some of the maybe the

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Speaker 3: lessons you learned as you were trailblazing this path of

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Speaker 3: like nonprofit? How do I create this? How do I

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Speaker 3: create a fund? Like what was the What were some

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Speaker 3: lessons you learned along that journey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've learned so many lessons, especially when it comes

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Speaker 1: to nonprofits, where part of me is like, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be a part of the nonprofit industrial

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Speaker 1: complex and shucking and driving for dollars. I just shared

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Speaker 1: how we do this work based on funding, But how

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Speaker 1: do we get the funding. We have to explain our

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Speaker 1: community's pain and I'm not going to put our people

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Speaker 1: on a ped not a pedestal, but I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to put our people like up to just showcase all

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Speaker 1: of the trauma to say, hey, pay us because we've

434
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,239
Speaker 1: experienced this, Pay us because we are deserving of this,

435
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: because it is our birthright, because we've been denied killing

436
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: for so long. After slavery ended, Jim Crow mass incarceration,

437
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: there was never any collective group therapy after we just

438
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: watched our brothers and sisters be lynched, sold off, incarcerated,

439
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: all of these different things. So that's why it's important

440
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 1: to fund this, especially if you do have excess dollars.

441
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: We just received a donation for two hundred and fifty

442
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, So if there are people with massive amounts

443
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: of wealth, and they're looking for organizations to give I

444
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: always encourage them to support black lead organizations because only

445
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: like one percent of philanthropic dollars go to black lead organizations,

446
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: but all of the work comes to us. And then

447
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: you have other organizations who may say this funding is

448
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: going to support a specific group or community so that

449
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: they can get the grant, and then that money never

450
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: triples down to that community. So those are some of

451
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 1: the lessons that I've learned how people really operate nonprofits,

452
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 1: and how money is distributed across organizations, and how you

453
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: have to quantify your impact and all of the things

454
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: that you do, and then just in terms of incorporating

455
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: an organization that is for and by the people. But yeah,

456
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 1: I've learned so many lessons, and most importantly, I've learned

457
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: about the thousands and thousands of people we've helped. People

458
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 1: come up to me on the street they're like, you've

459
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: saved my marriage. You helped me when I was in

460
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: a dark place and I didn't know that there was

461
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: help for someone who looked like me. We do a

462
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: lot of work around gun violence, and so you know,

463
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: we have people like share. I was really upset and

464
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 1: I probably would have done something I didn't do, but

465
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: I came to one of your groups and I was

466
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 1: able to process through my anger and my rage.

467
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: Ashley, thank you so much. I can't stop saying thank

468
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: you for this work that you're doing. And so one

469
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 2: of the things that you mentioned is this term culturally

470
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 2: responsive care. Right, as a therapist, I understand what that means.

471
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: I know what that means, I know how to embody that.

472
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: But for our.

473
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: Listeners who aren't familiar, who aren't therapists themselves, who aren't

474
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: familiar necessarily with this term and how it applies to

475
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: what the work that therapists do and how a therapist

476
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 2: shows up in the room, can you explain to folks

477
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: what is culturally responsive care and how could a client

478
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 2: recognize this in their therapists.

479
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. I actually talk about this in my book The

480
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: Cost of Healing and Silence, and I had to devote an

481
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: entire chapter to really challenging the idea of cultural competence.

482
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: And I'm super intentional about this because oftentimes we as clinicians,

483
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you know you know, we're taught we

484
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: need to be culturally competent. We have the one cultural

485
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: competent course which implies that there's an endpoint and if

486
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: you take the right training, read the right books, check

487
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: the right boxes, you can fully understand someone's lived experiences.

488
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: And we know that's just not true. I'm a black

489
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: woman and I'm still learning what it means to be

490
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: a black woman in this world every single day, and

491
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: that's constantly changing from like policies, history, grief loss. I

492
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: just attended last week a documentary called The Librarians. I

493
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: always say I was raised by the library, and liberians

494
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: are being charged with felonies right now and arrested in

495
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:11,719
Speaker 1: Georgia and Florida for providing books around race, around LGBTQ issues,

496
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: and they're burning books. It's like a modern day George

497
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: Orwell Fahrenheit four fifty one right now. And So when

498
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: I think about culturally responsive care, I think about responding

499
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: true things that are happening. It requires humility, curiosity, willingness

500
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: to really change what you hear. And how can clinicians

501
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: about how can like clients or just people out in

502
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: the world recognize if someone is being culturally responsive really,

503
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: how are they responding to you? Are they asking you

504
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: to educate them? Are they doing their own work? What

505
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: practices are they implementing. I think it's important for clinicians

506
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: to be introspective and ask themselves, you know, why did

507
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: I diagnose this person with that? Did I medicalize them

508
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: too quickly? Did I minimize their pain? Do I have

509
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: pity for them? And some of my workshops, I do

510
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: this exercise where I ask people to close their eyes

511
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: and envision police cars, you know, sirens, the lights, all

512
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: of that, and there's tape and there's three young men

513
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: behind the tape with their shirt off, hands behind their

514
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: back and they're handcuffed. And I go more deeply into that,

515
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: and I'm painting a really vivid picture, and then I

516
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: asked them to open their eyes and tell me who

517
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: they saw. I never asked them to tell me, but

518
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: I'm ninety nine percent sure they didn't see a three

519
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: blonde hair, blue eyed boys. And that is part of

520
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: being culturally responsive, because that image of who we see

521
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: when we close our eyes and we imagine the three

522
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: boys with their hands behind their back and handcuffs, is

523
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: so deeply seared into our consciousness that we assume that's

524
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: who the bad guys are. And I want to break

525
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: that vision of who we're seeing and who we're depicting

526
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: in handcuffs when we see the police, and that is

527
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: part of the work of being culturally responsive because I

528
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: know when I first did that exercise, I know who

529
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: I saw. I also know why I saw the people

530
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: that I saw.

531
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: I'm speechless over here, Ashley, Oh my goodness, wow, And

532
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 3: then that's the word of the episode, wow, oh my goodness. Okay,

533
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: So I want to know your perspective on non black

534
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: therapists serving black people because I know that you support

535
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 3: you know, we have allies, and you have folks that

536
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: are added to the list based on their cultural responsibility

537
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 3: and the work they do. But I'm thinking about the

538
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: person listening who's like, well, I want a black therapist,

539
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 3: but I know that there aren't enough black therapists for

540
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 3: all of us out there right now, right and then

541
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 3: we have goals to kind of ensure that there are more.

542
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 3: But what are your I guess, what's your perspective or

543
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 3: any advice for the person who is considering a therapist

544
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 3: and they're not there's no one that looks like them,

545
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 3: and the reality is there's just not enough black therapists

546
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 3: to go around. I believe the statistic is for like

547
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 3: every one black person there's or no, for every five

548
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 3: hundred and five hundred and something black people, there's one

549
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 3: therapist to go because there's only two percent at the

550
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 3: doctorate level, and then the master's level, which is what

551
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 3: I have, there's four percent.

552
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: Of us, and so there's just not enough. And then

553
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: there's this saying we have in our community. I'm sure

554
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: y'all have heard. Not all skin folk are kinfolk. That's part.

555
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: Just because you're a black person doesn't mean that you're

556
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: not upholding white supremacist ideologies and views. And there may

557
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: be a white clinician who's done the work practices from

558
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: an anti oppressive lens who can support you more than

559
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: a black clinician who's upholding white supremacist ideology. And that

560
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: is why we have the list of criteria in terms

561
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: of accepting clinicians to work with us. So we have

562
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: a lot of allies who've been able to do this

563
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: work and they support our black community members. One of

564
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: our board members, Julie Davidson, she's a white clinician. She

565
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: actually has a group he's like European descent, where she

566
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: works with white clinicians to help them check their biases

567
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: practice from anti racist practices, and she donates all of

568
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: the money that she collects from them to our organization

569
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: at the Therapy Fund Foundation. There's a white therapist who's

570
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: doing the work, constantly reading the literature and going out,

571
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: is active in community and not in a silo. But yeah,

572
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: so those would be some of the some of the

573
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: things that I would answer.

574
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing that that is an important perspective.

575
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: Thank you.

576
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, Ashley, Let's talk about your book because we've

577
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 2: mentioned it a few times, right, Well, let's get into it.

578
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 2: So your book that's coming out in March, The Cost

579
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 2: of Healing and Silence, Navigating Racial Trauma and the call

580
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 2: for culturally responsive care. Tell us what inspired the book

581
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: and what can readers expect to find.

582
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 1: The book is inspired by my grandmother's life and women

583
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: like her. I actually tell it through the lens of

584
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: her life. She died way too early as a result

585
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: of a stroke and other factors attributed to systemic oppression

586
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: and racism. And we know the leading cause of strokes

587
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: are stressed. My grandmother was extremely stressed out, and I

588
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 1: often wonder if she had a therapist available to her,

589
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: would she still be here. Unfortunately, she was living in

590
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: an environment where there were liquor stores on every corner.

591
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 1: She was plagued with being a giver and saying yes

592
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,439
Speaker 1: to everybody. I always wonder if she wanted to say

593
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: no but couldn't it. And she gave, and she gave

594
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 1: until her last breath. And that is why I wrote

595
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: this book when I think about her life and how

596
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: she was treated. She experienced a brain bleed and was

597
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: sent home. Jamie Fox actually has a documentary on net

598
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: not a documentary, a stand up on Netflix called what

599
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: had Happened Was where he talks about experiencing a brain

600
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: bleed much like my grandmother, and was sent home much

601
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: like my grandmother. He's a millionaire, famous person, yet he

602
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: still experienced this and then his family advocated and fought

603
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: for him. My family advocated and fought for my grandmother too,

604
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, there was just a lot of things that happen,

605
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: a lot of biases and racial prejudices that she was

606
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: met with in the hospital, from being sent home essentially

607
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: to die with the brain bleed, and then when she

608
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: went when she did go back to the hospital, she's

609
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: ninety pounds. My Grandma's very tiny. She needed tube feeding.

610
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: They placed the tube feed incorrectly and it leaked, and

611
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: that's ultimately what killed her. And when you look at

612
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: the care of people who are not black or brown

613
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: in the healthcare system and how they're treated and their lifespan,

614
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 1: that's what inspired me to write this book. I shared

615
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: earlier how I did hospice therapy. I served two different communities,

616
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: one Vashon Island, predominantly white community where my patients were

617
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: well into their hundreds, and then I would go to Skyway,

618
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: a suburb in the city of Seattle, which is predominantly

619
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: black and brown, and they would be dying in their fifties.

620
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: My very last hospice patient was a twenty three year

621
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: old black woman who passed away as a result of

622
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: chronic stress, a preventable illness. And when I looked at

623
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: the life spans of the people in Skyway and the

624
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: people in Vashon Island, there was one central core thing, racism,

625
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: which was impacting their lifespans. And so I write this

626
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: book so that we may live well and live longer

627
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: like the people in Vashon Island who were well into

628
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: their hundreds. I'll never forget I had one hundred and

629
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 1: four year old white woman. I had to discharge because

630
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: in order to be on hospice, you need to be

631
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: showing signs of actively dying in order for Medicaid Medicare

632
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: to cover your care on hospice, So he actually had

633
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: to discharge her. That has never happened for any of

634
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: my black or brown patients that I served on hospice.

635
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: I would watch them die very young, and when I

636
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: would listen to their lives, all I heard was racism

637
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: prejudices embedded throughout their stories. And even my own family.

638
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: You know, my grandmother, My uncle Kenny, died at fifty

639
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: two searching for health insurance. He was actually driving around

640
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: to another state because he couldn't get insurance in the

641
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: state where he lived, and then he had a heart

642
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: attack and died trying to be insured to care for himself.

643
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for sharing, Ashley, And that is wow.

644
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: That's a lot to process.

645
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 3: And I think that your experience is so unique and

646
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 3: allows you to bring such an interesting perspective to your work.

647
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 3: And what I want to ask you is, what would

648
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 3: you say the cost of healing and silence is, and

649
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 3: like who ends up paying for that? When you think

650
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 3: about people who heal in silence. I think about a

651
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 3: lot of friends and even myself. We've gone through situations

652
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 3: and we're like, well, I want to just kind of

653
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 3: retreat and I'll come back outside me with the friends,

654
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 3: like when I'm better, you know. So I think about

655
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 3: those experiences. How would you answer that question?

656
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: I would say the cost is ourselves. I think about

657
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: my journey and my healing, which I did mostly in isolation,

658
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: and now that I speak up and I share my story,

659
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: and I think about the mass of individuals who hear

660
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: my testimony and they see themselves in it, they see

661
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: their stories. And if I didn't share that, and if

662
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,720
Speaker 1: I kept it to myself, locked up in a dark closet,

663
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: then I wouldn't be able to reach the masses. And

664
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: I always say, when we heal ourselves, we heal a generation,

665
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: and so it deprives the generation from the opportunity to

666
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: heal out loud.

667
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: Oh thank you for that, Thank you for sharing that.

668
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: And it makes me.

669
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 2: Think of what we.

670
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: Whether we are fully aware of it or not, or.

671
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 2: Are not maybe not? How do I want to say this?

672
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 2: Most of us intuitively know that there is something special

673
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 2: and magical about being in community, right being surrounded by

674
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 2: peers or people who look like you. And as most therapists,

675
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: some therapists, no culturally responsive therapists know that healing in

676
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 2: community is essential to healing.

677
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 3: And so.

678
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: For those that aren't necessarily familiar.

679
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 2: With that, what can healing in community like, especially when

680
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 2: we have already named that therapy can be inaccessible for

681
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: a lot of folks in our community.

682
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: And that's where community plays a part. I always always

683
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: pay homage to the hairstylists, the big mamas who have

684
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: been providing safe spaces and healing for community members who

685
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: don't have access to a clinician. And I know a

686
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: lot of times, you know, we shun folks who don't

687
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: have the credentials, at least in the field. You know,

688
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: there's this hierarchical thing. If you don't have the degree,

689
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: you don't have the ability. But there's people without the

690
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: degrees who've been providing healing for us in so many

691
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: ways in communities, breaking bread together, dining. I think about

692
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: the laughter, the joy that I experience just having dinner

693
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: with friends, family members, peers. We just did a retreat

694
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: with my NAACP family and I just experienced so much

695
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: joy and repair and you know, healing that we didn't

696
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: even know that we needed in that moment. And so

697
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: you don't know what you need until you're there and

698
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 1: until you're really fully embraced by community. And I think

699
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: that's so important for us to share our stories, for

700
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 1: us to fill one another in a safe embrace, and

701
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, to just laugh together and to eat together,

702
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: pray together, if you're a praying person, travel together. I

703
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: shared earlier. I'm an avid traveler and me and my

704
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 1: cousins we take big trips together. We just got back

705
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 1: from Belize, and so I just think it's so important

706
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: to get out if you can. And I also understand

707
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: that's a privilege to be able to afford to travel

708
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: and do all of these things. That there's things you

709
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: can do at a local free park that you know

710
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 1: doesn't cost anything but your transportation, your accessibility, if maybe

711
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: you could walk to the park.

712
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 3: Those are such great examples in that community healing is

713
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 3: definitely priceless. And actually, I'm thinking about the story about

714
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 3: your grandmother and your uncle, and those are absolutely devastating experiences.

715
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 3: Even when you were comparing your experience in the various

716
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 3: hospice cares, thinking about the work that you do and

717
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 3: some of the heavy topics that you are exposed to.

718
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 3: I'm assuming on a consistent basis, what do you do

719
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 3: to care for yourself and what do you do to

720
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 3: keep yourself going and keep your perspective, you know, light

721
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 3: and optimistic.

722
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: I laugh. Most of my friends are comedians. I say,

723
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: like most of my friend groups, they are either lawyers

724
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: or comedians. Yeah. One of my friends, he owns one

725
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: of the only black owned comedy clubs in the entire

726
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: United States. There's only like six black owned comedy clubs,

727
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: and one is in to call my Washington. And when

728
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: I'm low and I'm home, I go to his comedy

729
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: club all the time, or you know, I'm going to

730
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: the Laugh Factory or mic Drop. I just love to

731
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: laugh watch comedic films. Me and my husband were just

732
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: looking like, oh, we're gonna go see Kat Williams. So

733
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: that is my joy is just laughing and getting away

734
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: from the trauma porn. And I know even through comedians

735
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: they do share their trauma. Like Jamie Fox, how I

736
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: was sharing the same experience that my grandma had. It

737
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: was actually pretty painful to listen to that. If you

738
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 1: watch that stand up on Netflix, but that is also

739
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: part of my healing, my release, travel the beach. I'm

740
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: very privileged to live in two beautiful places, Seattle and

741
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: San Diego, which I navigate back and forth to. And

742
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: the summer in San Diego right now. Oh, you are

743
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: so lucky. It's called a far just experiencing the sun.

744
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 1: And I was out on my patio all day today

745
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: because I just left the Seattle rain and you know,

746
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: letting the sun hit my skin. That is that is

747
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 1: how I heal a ti state will, hanging out with

748
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: my family, my husband. I just had a sleepover with

749
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: my seven year old niece. She forced me to sleep

750
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: in her little twin size bed. It was me and

751
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: all these squishies and you know, she's showing me roadblocks

752
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: and we're just having a time. And that's where I

753
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: find my joy and my recovery and talking to the babies,

754
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 1: you know, my nieces, my nephews, other family members and

755
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: just youth in my life who show up and they

756
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: fuel me and it is so beautiful.

757
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: And I think that gives people ideas on what they

758
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 3: can tap into as well. And Ash gonna have to

759
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 3: ask you, is your for Nate Jackson body chance yes,

760
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 3: because I love has called me. I went to comb

761
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 3: I know he got his comedy club up the That's

762
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:00,760
Speaker 3: so cool.

763
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: Yes, go yes, if you're ever in that area and

764
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: he's always performing all throughout California. Yeah.

765
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: And actually, as you were sharing the things that you

766
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 2: do for care, I was like, oh, yeah, I do that,

767
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 2: I do that. Yeah, all of it sounds all of

768
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,919
Speaker 2: it sounds very familiar and what I do for care

769
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 2: as well. And so Ashley, as we are bringing this

770
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 2: this interview to a close, I can't believe like time

771
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: has flown by in this conversation. Is there anything that

772
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 2: we haven't touched on yet that you're like in any interview, like,

773
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 2: I need people to hear this thing. Is there anything

774
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: that we haven't touched on yet that you want to

775
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 2: share with the audience.

776
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: Gosh, We've touched on so so many things. I'm a

777
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: history buff and I love reading, and so I would

778
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: just say I want people to read something they wouldn't

779
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: ever read before, whether it's my book, whether it's Madness,

780
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,280
Speaker 1: one of my favorite books right now by Antonia Hilton,

781
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: which really talks about the history of insane asylums and

782
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 1: how they were built by black folks, and then black

783
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: folks were put into those very insane asylums that they

784
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 1: had to build. And or a fun book like Sky

785
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: Full of Elephants by Sebil Campbell, which it's fascinating. It

786
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: talks about how the story essentially is, one day white

787
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: folks wake up and they all unlive themselves. They walk

788
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: into the ocean and there's no more white people. So

789
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: how do you navigate this world without whiteness? And it

790
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: gets you to really think about race, especially me, someone

791
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: whose career path is very heavily ameshed in social justice

792
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: processing through racial trauma. So what does my work and

793
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,479
Speaker 1: what do I look like as a person if there's

794
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: no more need for that? And then how much of

795
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: our identities is attached to whiteness. It's a really beautiful story,

796
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: and you know, I would just encourage someone to read.

797
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: But if you don't like to read, you know, listen

798
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: to an audiobook. But I'm a person I shared earlier.

799
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: I love libraries and I'm just always reading and learning

800
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 1: and picking up something. So I would share a thousand

801
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: different books if that's what I'm asked, And I can

802
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: just go down a list of all my favorite books.

803
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: Those are good we love that.

804
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 3: We'll put your recommendations in the show notes because I

805
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 3: want to read some of those as well, So thank

806
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 3: you for that, and actually, thank you so much for

807
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 3: the work that you do. I mean, we cannot thank

808
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 3: you enough. I'm so happy that we had a chance

809
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 3: to have this conversation with you. And if our audience

810
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 3: isn't familiar, introduce you and your work to them, because

811
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 3: this is literally, this is God's work for real, like

812
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 3: this can really I'm sure it has already changed the

813
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 3: lives of so many people. What We appreciate you so

814
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 3: much and if there's anything that our community can do

815
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 3: to support you, please let us know. Definitely add the

816
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 3: link to your book or the launch or details in

817
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 3: the show notes for them as Welloks, I know we're

818
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 3: recording a little bit early, but yeah, anything that you

819
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 3: want to lead them to as we close out.

820
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: They can find me on most social media platforms at

821
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: therapy with ash or like LinkedIn just my name Ashley McGirt.

822
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 1: They can also tap into my website Ashley McGirt dot com.

823
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 1: And yeah, again just going back to the to the

824
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:32,240
Speaker 1: books check out. You know, we refuse madness Decolonizing Therapy.

825
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: The people who don't like to read. It's probably like

826
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: girl stop one of my friends. I'm always sharing with

827
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: her books and she's like, you know, I don't read. Girl.

828
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 3: We see you repping with chair with your sweatshirt too.

829
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 3: It looks good.

830
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: Yes, a social movement. I got this from a black

831
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: owned bookstore in Chicago called the Book Joint. It's a

832
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: mom and daughter owned book bookstore, and I just really

833
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: love and adore them. We love that. Thank you so much.

834
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 3: We appreciate you so much, Ashley, Thank you Banks.

835
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 2: It's doctor Do'm here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.

836
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 2: Are you currently a resident of the state of California

837
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 2: and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so, please

838
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

839
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 2: That's d R D O M I N I q

840
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 2: U E B R O U S s ar D

841
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: dot com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation. I

842
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 2: look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for tuning into

843
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: Cultivating her Space. Remember that while this podcast is all

844
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: about healing, empowerment, and resilience, it's not a substitute for therapy.

845
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 2: If you are someone you know need support, check out

846
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 2: resources like therapy for Black Girls, or psychology today. If

847
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 2: you love today's episode, do us a favor and share

848
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 2: it with a friend who needs some inspiration, or leave

849
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: us a quick five star review. Your support means the

850
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 2: world to us and helps keep this space thriving.

851
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 3: And before we meet again, repeat after me, I trust

852
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 3: myself to begin even without all the answers. Keep thriving, lady,

853
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,879
Speaker 3: and tune in next Friday for more inspiration from cultivating

854
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 3: her Space. In the meantime, be sure to connect with

855
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 3: us on Instagram at her Space Podcast.