WEBVTT - Broken Record Presents: A Musical Episode of Solvable 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:22.556 Pushkin. Hey, y'all, this is justin Richmond. I hope you're 0:00:22.596 --> 0:00:25.796 enjoying a nice and safe holiday season. We're looking forward 0:00:25.836 --> 0:00:27.796 to coming back to you with new episodes of Broken 0:00:27.836 --> 0:00:31.436 Record in twenty twenty one, starting on January twelve. But 0:00:31.516 --> 0:00:33.796 in the meantime, we wanted to gift you an interview 0:00:33.796 --> 0:00:38.716 Malcolm Gladwell did for another podcast called Solvable. Solvable is 0:00:38.716 --> 0:00:43.356 hosted by Pushkin CEO Jacob Weisberg and occasionally Malcolm as well. 0:00:43.716 --> 0:00:46.836 In this episode, Malcolm speaks with a software engineer who 0:00:46.916 --> 0:00:50.516 solved awkward video conference calls by reducing the delay time 0:00:50.556 --> 0:00:53.796 that occurs enough that musicians can now jam over Zoom 0:00:53.956 --> 0:00:58.276 in real time. Enjoy this episode. Here's Malcolm Gladwell. Was Solvable. 0:00:59.316 --> 0:01:03.836 This is Solvable. I'm Malcolm Gladwell. Occasionally we would get 0:01:03.876 --> 0:01:05.996 to go on break out rooms on Zoom and just 0:01:06.476 --> 0:01:11.636 discuss our feelings about what's happening at the time, and 0:01:11.636 --> 0:01:15.116 when the lockdown began, we were all devastated because singing 0:01:15.196 --> 0:01:18.116 was our life. Sam is twelve years old and like 0:01:18.276 --> 0:01:21.956 many kids, he's struggling with the restrictions COVID nineteen has 0:01:21.996 --> 0:01:24.316 imposed on his life. There's a lot of talking to 0:01:24.396 --> 0:01:28.556 news about the impact of COVID on classroom education. But 0:01:28.676 --> 0:01:33.236 for Sam and his friends, what they're missing is after school. 0:01:33.756 --> 0:01:36.236 Ragotsi was like a sanctuary to go to at the 0:01:36.356 --> 0:01:39.516 end of the school day. Rogatsi is a boy's choir 0:01:39.556 --> 0:01:42.916 based in California. Sam's been singing in the group for 0:01:42.956 --> 0:01:46.996 seven years. In pre COVID times, he would rehearse twice 0:01:46.996 --> 0:01:50.396 a week for several hours each day, but all of 0:01:50.436 --> 0:01:53.276 that came to a halt when COVID arrived in the US. 0:01:53.956 --> 0:01:57.196 The choir was basically stuck. If you've ever tried to 0:01:57.236 --> 0:02:00.316 sing something like Happy Birthday during a zoom meeting, you 0:02:00.356 --> 0:02:03.516 know what I'm talking about. Making music sync up with 0:02:03.556 --> 0:02:07.836 other people in real time over the Internet is really tough. 0:02:08.396 --> 0:02:12.276 The connect he delays, what they call latency, can be 0:02:12.316 --> 0:02:16.596 pretty awkward. Give us the technical explanation of the problem 0:02:16.716 --> 0:02:21.876 your son was facing. It's rooted in latency. Fundamentally, the 0:02:21.916 --> 0:02:24.836 time that it takes the sound you make to reach 0:02:24.876 --> 0:02:28.436 another musician that you're performing with. You need to have 0:02:28.476 --> 0:02:32.716 a latency of about less than twenty five milliseconds. Otherwise, 0:02:32.796 --> 0:02:35.076 the asense of the pulse or the beat of the 0:02:35.196 --> 0:02:39.476 music is just lost across those musicians. Mike Dickie is 0:02:39.516 --> 0:02:42.516 a software engineer, and after months of seeing his son 0:02:42.636 --> 0:02:46.276 Sam bummed out about not singing, he realized he could 0:02:46.316 --> 0:02:49.396 do something about it now for far less than the 0:02:49.396 --> 0:02:52.796 cost of a year of private music lessons. Dickie created 0:02:52.836 --> 0:02:56.836 a tool that allows groups of musicians to make music online. 0:02:57.516 --> 0:03:00.916 And it might be just the beginning. So we could 0:03:00.956 --> 0:03:06.316 have real time cheering and fan reaction in a basketball game. Yeah, absolutely, 0:03:06.836 --> 0:03:09.796 Performing in rehearsing with others in real time is really 0:03:09.836 --> 0:03:12.916 difficult or even impossible for many people. But this problem 0:03:13.036 --> 0:03:21.236 is solvable. I talked with Mike Dickie about Virtual Studio. 0:03:21.796 --> 0:03:24.436 It's a low cost device that works with the open 0:03:24.476 --> 0:03:28.756 source tool called jack Trip to make remote music collaboration 0:03:29.236 --> 0:03:34.316 possible in real time. Here is our conversation. Mike tell 0:03:34.356 --> 0:03:37.796 me about the first time this that Rugazzi rehearse using 0:03:38.196 --> 0:03:40.716 virtual Studio. What was that like? At first? It was 0:03:40.756 --> 0:03:47.236 a bit terrifying progress out. Let's progress down, okay and 0:03:47.796 --> 0:03:53.436 keep go. I thought of all the things that could 0:03:53.476 --> 0:03:56.236 go wrong, and I knew that this was all very 0:03:56.316 --> 0:03:59.796 new and untested, and I was also worried just of 0:03:59.836 --> 0:04:02.636 what people would think of me and my son if 0:04:02.676 --> 0:04:06.516 this was a huge disaster. But when we when we 0:04:06.556 --> 0:04:10.236 started getting people online and it's started to work, and 0:04:10.276 --> 0:04:26.316 the boys started to sing right. It was the first 0:04:26.316 --> 0:04:29.116 time they were singing together in a long time, and 0:04:29.276 --> 0:04:33.476 I could see through the zoom the faces on the 0:04:33.476 --> 0:04:35.996 different boys start to light up. I could see the smiles, 0:04:35.996 --> 0:04:37.836 I could see it in their eyes, and I could 0:04:37.876 --> 0:04:41.636 see it in the director's eyes, thinking, hey, this actually 0:04:41.796 --> 0:04:52.516 is working. That experience of seeing people and having them 0:04:52.556 --> 0:04:59.396 so happy and having their experience with others impact their lives, 0:04:59.436 --> 0:05:01.596 that's really what led me to put more and more 0:05:01.596 --> 0:05:04.756 time into this and ultimately to devote all my time 0:05:04.796 --> 0:05:08.796 towards it. Prior to the lockdown, people must have thought 0:05:08.836 --> 0:05:11.116 about this problem and tried to solve it. Were there 0:05:11.116 --> 0:05:16.916 existing technical solutions to the problem of how to sing remotely? 0:05:17.156 --> 0:05:20.356 There were, thankfully. I looked at several of them when 0:05:20.356 --> 0:05:24.956 I started out, and I came across this small project 0:05:25.116 --> 0:05:28.796 from out of Stanford University called jack Trip, which is 0:05:28.836 --> 0:05:31.436 an open source technology that was developed over a year 0:05:31.476 --> 0:05:35.316 ago by the Computer Music department. It seemed very promising. 0:05:35.356 --> 0:05:39.276 It had a high quality, lossless audio. It focused on 0:05:39.356 --> 0:05:42.596 low latency and over the Internet, and there were a 0:05:42.636 --> 0:05:45.716 lot of people already using it. The challenge that I 0:05:45.796 --> 0:05:49.196 found with that is that it was a command line tool. 0:05:49.476 --> 0:05:52.316 You had to open a terminal on your computer. In 0:05:52.356 --> 0:05:54.396 many cases, you had to build it from the source code, 0:05:54.436 --> 0:05:57.196 the C plus plus source code, and then you had 0:05:57.236 --> 0:05:59.596 to know the command lines and figure out the right 0:05:59.636 --> 0:06:02.396 command line options in order to use it with other people. 0:06:03.036 --> 0:06:06.276 That's great for somebody who's very technically oriented, but in 0:06:06.876 --> 0:06:09.076 my son's chorus, I was trying to figure out how 0:06:09.116 --> 0:06:11.796 how can we roll this out to a large number 0:06:11.956 --> 0:06:16.116 of young boys that don't have this advanced technical expertise. 0:06:16.596 --> 0:06:19.076 And it was actually a challenge that I thought I 0:06:19.116 --> 0:06:22.436 was well suited for because I understood the technical side 0:06:22.476 --> 0:06:25.516 and I also had the product background in order to 0:06:25.916 --> 0:06:29.676 try to make something that was fairly difficult to use 0:06:30.316 --> 0:06:32.516 fairly easy for most of the people that were out there. 0:06:32.956 --> 0:06:38.756 So we're used to is it a normal sonic collaboration, 0:06:39.436 --> 0:06:42.596 a conversation up with people singing, We're already used to 0:06:42.596 --> 0:06:47.316 a degree of latency. We've incorporated that into our definition 0:06:47.356 --> 0:06:50.196 of normal. You don't have to you don't have to 0:06:50.196 --> 0:06:52.116 take latency to zero to make it sound normal. In 0:06:52.116 --> 0:06:55.436 other words, Yes, it's all about tricking your brain. Sound 0:06:55.476 --> 0:07:00.276 travels at roughly one foot per millisecond, and so if 0:07:00.276 --> 0:07:02.996 you're ten feet away from someone, it takes you ten 0:07:03.036 --> 0:07:05.836 milliseconds to actually hear something that they say or a 0:07:05.916 --> 0:07:09.476 note that they play on their instrument, and ours have 0:07:09.516 --> 0:07:13.036 evolved to adapt to that. And when we play music 0:07:13.076 --> 0:07:16.236 with a group, our brains are used to having people 0:07:16.276 --> 0:07:19.436 that are a certain distance away. Once they get further 0:07:19.556 --> 0:07:21.716 than twenty five feet away from you, it becomes really 0:07:21.756 --> 0:07:23.836 hard for you to stay in sync with them. So 0:07:23.876 --> 0:07:27.276 the trick here with these software solutions is simply to 0:07:27.356 --> 0:07:32.196 get under that twenty five threshold with a way that 0:07:32.276 --> 0:07:36.196 the sound is being transmitted exactly. And there's many steps 0:07:36.276 --> 0:07:38.596 along that path when you think about it. There's there's 0:07:38.636 --> 0:07:41.076 the path from let's say you're singing. There's the path 0:07:41.116 --> 0:07:45.116 from your voice your vocal chords to the microphone. Then 0:07:45.156 --> 0:07:47.676 there's the path from the microphone to your computer or 0:07:47.716 --> 0:07:51.796 whatever audio device you're using. There's the process of digitizing 0:07:51.796 --> 0:07:55.436 that audio, turning it from an analog sound into digital 0:07:55.516 --> 0:07:59.196 samples that can be buffered and transmitted electronically. And then 0:07:59.196 --> 0:08:01.756 there's the process of sending all that data from your 0:08:01.796 --> 0:08:05.476 computer to somebody else's computer and then essentially reversing the 0:08:05.556 --> 0:08:08.276 process in order to get into the headphones that someone's 0:08:08.316 --> 0:08:11.436 listening to you on. And each of those steps adds latency, 0:08:11.636 --> 0:08:15.716 and the key is just minimizing the latency of as 0:08:15.756 --> 0:08:18.836 many of those steps as possible along the way. Can 0:08:18.916 --> 0:08:23.716 you give a layperson's explanation of what we mean when 0:08:23.716 --> 0:08:27.076 we talk about buffer size? Sure? Buffer size is similar 0:08:27.116 --> 0:08:29.836 to if you're a shipping company and you're trying to 0:08:29.876 --> 0:08:32.716 send something from China to the United States. You have 0:08:32.756 --> 0:08:36.116 to load all of these containers onto a ship and 0:08:36.356 --> 0:08:40.316 then send that ship across the ocean to its destination port. 0:08:40.796 --> 0:08:44.196 All those containers then get unloaded and delivered to someone else. 0:08:44.516 --> 0:08:46.836 So each of those containers could be considered a buffer. 0:08:47.196 --> 0:08:49.716 The ship itself could also be considered a buffer. So 0:08:49.756 --> 0:08:52.556 you're kind of grouping things into these larger buckets and 0:08:52.596 --> 0:08:57.596 then transmitting them from one location to another. Describe virtual 0:08:57.636 --> 0:09:00.916 studio to make what is this thing that you have created? 0:09:01.316 --> 0:09:06.116 So the device it's basically using a Raspberry pie microcomputer 0:09:06.436 --> 0:09:08.956 or a single board computer that fits in the palm 0:09:08.956 --> 0:09:12.636 of your hand, and that this board only costs about 0:09:12.676 --> 0:09:16.396 thirty five dollars, and so I combine that with a 0:09:16.876 --> 0:09:20.756 sound card from a company called Hi Fi Berry, which 0:09:21.076 --> 0:09:24.476 is extremely low latency, and it plugs directly into this 0:09:24.756 --> 0:09:27.236 single board computer, so you don't have to go through 0:09:27.756 --> 0:09:31.396 a USB bus, which by itself adds latency by the way, 0:09:31.876 --> 0:09:35.476 it just talks directly to the CPU and other components 0:09:35.516 --> 0:09:38.276 on that board, and that allows it to achieve a 0:09:38.396 --> 0:09:41.396 latency as low as about one millisecond. But when I 0:09:41.396 --> 0:09:43.436 realized that I could do that, and I tested it 0:09:43.916 --> 0:09:48.116 and measured it and everything else, then I realized, Hey, 0:09:48.116 --> 0:09:50.676 this is really possible. We can really do something with this. 0:09:51.636 --> 0:09:53.676 Wait back up for a moment. So there is this 0:09:54.276 --> 0:09:57.716 thing Jack Trip, which comes out of Stanford. How do they, 0:09:59.236 --> 0:10:04.196 without without getting two swallowed up in the technical but 0:10:04.276 --> 0:10:08.276 explain to a computer dummy like me, how they propose 0:10:08.436 --> 0:10:12.316 to solve this latency problem. So you have this lag 0:10:12.596 --> 0:10:15.396 how does Jack Trip solve that problem? There's really no 0:10:15.716 --> 0:10:18.516 rocket science to it. What Jack Trip does is it 0:10:18.556 --> 0:10:21.796 just tries to take the audio packets, to extract them 0:10:21.876 --> 0:10:24.836 from the chip sets that are in your sound card 0:10:25.236 --> 0:10:28.196 and transmit them over the internet as quickly and as 0:10:28.276 --> 0:10:31.356 efficiently as possible. A large part of that is just 0:10:31.436 --> 0:10:35.876 having small buffer sizes, so jack Trip effectively just tries 0:10:35.916 --> 0:10:40.956 to minimize the overhead of transmitting this data over the networks. 0:10:40.956 --> 0:10:44.396 How long did it take you to build the first 0:10:44.436 --> 0:10:47.916 kind of prototype of this? Building the raspberry pie itself 0:10:48.036 --> 0:10:50.436 was fairly easy. It just took a few days to 0:10:50.476 --> 0:10:54.036 convert that over. And I had a few people helping 0:10:54.196 --> 0:10:57.276 test things with me. And I remember the first time 0:10:57.276 --> 0:11:00.596 I tested it myself, just as a loop back to 0:11:00.676 --> 0:11:03.316 the server and back to hear myself, and I was 0:11:03.356 --> 0:11:07.436 certain I did something wrong because it was instantaneous, or 0:11:07.476 --> 0:11:10.596 at least to me, it sounded instantaneous, and I thought, now, 0:11:10.676 --> 0:11:14.236 this can't possibly be sending. But yeah, the more I 0:11:14.316 --> 0:11:16.796 dug into it, the more I convinced myself that this 0:11:16.916 --> 0:11:18.796 was really happening. Were you Do you remember what? Were 0:11:18.796 --> 0:11:21.076 you singing or speaking? Do you remember why? I can't 0:11:21.116 --> 0:11:25.396 say you don't want to hear anything? No, I was 0:11:25.516 --> 0:11:29.316 just I was whistling a lot. For usually I whistled 0:11:29.356 --> 0:11:32.076 from my test. Sometimes I do try to sing if 0:11:32.116 --> 0:11:34.956 I know nobody's listening or in the room. If you 0:11:34.956 --> 0:11:36.476 do try to sing, what do you try to sing, 0:11:36.556 --> 0:11:41.876 I sing about my dog. This is like didn't what 0:11:41.996 --> 0:11:44.276 is it that Alexander Graham Bell said to his assistant 0:11:44.316 --> 0:11:47.756 on the first telephone transmission. Was it like, you know, 0:11:47.916 --> 0:11:51.316 doctor Watson, come quick or something like that? This is 0:11:51.356 --> 0:11:55.276 like up there with that? And when was that when 0:11:55.316 --> 0:11:57.196 you did that first test and you couldn't believe it? 0:11:57.196 --> 0:11:59.836 When was that? That was probably in May? Oh wow, 0:11:59.876 --> 0:12:03.476 this whole thing went really quickly. Yeah. Yeah. We shut 0:12:03.516 --> 0:12:07.396 things down here in California in mid March, late March. 0:12:07.676 --> 0:12:11.556 And I started out just you know, some evenings I 0:12:11.556 --> 0:12:13.676 would look at what's out there and spend a little 0:12:13.676 --> 0:12:15.876 time here and there. And the amount of time I 0:12:15.956 --> 0:12:20.236 spent grew more and more every week, until finally I 0:12:20.276 --> 0:12:23.676 started really putting things together and building things and testing things. 0:12:23.716 --> 0:12:29.476 By may, So, walk me through how Rigazzi does their rehearsals. Now, 0:12:29.516 --> 0:12:34.196 how do you put this into practical service? Well, interestingly, 0:12:34.436 --> 0:12:37.756 Rigassi still starts all of their rehearsals with Zoom, and 0:12:38.036 --> 0:12:40.836 we still use that as a tool to carry the 0:12:40.956 --> 0:12:45.356 video and connect everyone visually with one another. And then 0:12:45.396 --> 0:12:49.316 they in parallel to running Zoom, they run jack Trip 0:12:49.596 --> 0:12:52.396 and they use jack Trip for the audio and that 0:12:52.436 --> 0:12:56.076 means that the video is very heavily delayed compared to 0:12:56.116 --> 0:12:57.996 the audio. It takes a lot longer for you to 0:12:57.996 --> 0:13:01.756 see something versus when you hear it. And one of 0:13:01.756 --> 0:13:04.596 the downsides of that is that conducting, we've learned, is 0:13:04.636 --> 0:13:08.636 just not possible. You can't conduct visually, in particular with 0:13:09.276 --> 0:13:12.196 the gesticulations that you would normally see a conductor doing 0:13:12.596 --> 0:13:17.396 throughout a performance. So what the conductors have done and 0:13:17.516 --> 0:13:21.956 learned over time is that they have started conducting through audio. 0:13:23.076 --> 0:13:26.076 They give audio cues throughout a performance to either become 0:13:26.116 --> 0:13:28.396 a little bit louder, a little bit softer, a little 0:13:28.396 --> 0:13:31.756 bit faster, and when to cut off. All these things 0:13:32.636 --> 0:13:35.396 ended up moving from the visual side to the audio. 0:13:35.996 --> 0:13:38.756 So we still we still use the video just to 0:13:38.796 --> 0:13:42.156 help everybody seeing one another, helps give them a little 0:13:42.156 --> 0:13:45.796 bit more sense of presence. So everyone does. Every boy 0:13:45.836 --> 0:13:50.156 in the choir have to have his own little virtual studio. Yes, 0:13:50.796 --> 0:13:54.076 early on a major donor that allowed us to distribute 0:13:54.076 --> 0:13:56.796 this out to the entire chorus. It's about one hundred 0:13:56.796 --> 0:13:59.636 and fifty dollars for the device, and that doesn't include 0:13:59.676 --> 0:14:03.196 the accessories, which would be the microphone and some cables. 0:14:03.236 --> 0:14:07.316 So altogether it's about two hundred dollars. Did you when 0:14:07.316 --> 0:14:09.756 you set out to solve this particular rob you quit 0:14:09.836 --> 0:14:14.396 your old job to focus on this? Was that was? That? 0:14:15.076 --> 0:14:16.836 Was that a big step? Did that seem like a 0:14:16.916 --> 0:14:20.996 rash step? It still seems like a rash step. It was. 0:14:21.236 --> 0:14:24.796 It was certainly a monumental and life changing step for me. 0:14:25.076 --> 0:14:28.156 Um I also realized that this isn't something that's unique 0:14:28.156 --> 0:14:31.396 to Ragatzi. This is a problem that's really general across 0:14:31.436 --> 0:14:34.916 the entire world. And to me that was that was 0:14:34.956 --> 0:14:38.396 one of those moments where I realized that I could 0:14:38.436 --> 0:14:41.756 do something to help, and I may not ever have 0:14:41.916 --> 0:14:44.956 an opportunity to have an impact like I could at 0:14:44.956 --> 0:14:48.276 that moment. How do people I mean, so you have 0:14:48.396 --> 0:14:51.716 this thing that's now being used by Rigazzi, how do 0:14:51.756 --> 0:14:53.996 you get the Rigazzi cam't be the only choir out there? 0:14:54.076 --> 0:14:56.236 Or people who might I mean, have I come from 0:14:56.236 --> 0:14:58.276 a family where three members of my family are in 0:14:58.356 --> 0:15:01.956 church choirs and they've been grounded since March. I don't 0:15:01.956 --> 0:15:04.596 think they think it's even possible to be able to 0:15:05.116 --> 0:15:07.796 sing together. How have you gotten the word out about 0:15:07.876 --> 0:15:11.236 virtual studio? Different mechanisms I'm certainly in the Within the 0:15:11.276 --> 0:15:13.756 Bay area itself, we had a number of connections to 0:15:13.836 --> 0:15:18.436 other choruses and performing arts organizations. We've also been working 0:15:18.436 --> 0:15:21.796 a lot with Chorus America, which is a great organization 0:15:21.796 --> 0:15:26.276 of many choruses across the country. So we're slowly getting 0:15:26.276 --> 0:15:29.036 the information and the word out that this is possible 0:15:29.156 --> 0:15:33.236 through through not just our mechanism, but different mechanisms. So 0:15:34.196 --> 0:15:37.596 it'll be interesting to see as this progresses over the 0:15:37.596 --> 0:15:40.796 next several months. But wait, I would go even further. 0:15:41.036 --> 0:15:44.036 There's a whole category of live experiences which could be 0:15:44.076 --> 0:15:47.396 recreated using this. So I'm thinking, I mean, I don't 0:15:47.396 --> 0:15:50.476 know whether you're a basketball fan, but imagine an NBA 0:15:50.516 --> 0:15:54.716 game where everyone who's watching, every fan who's watching the game, 0:15:54.796 --> 0:15:59.756 has one of these devices in their house, So we 0:15:59.796 --> 0:16:03.396 could have real time cheering and fan reaction in a 0:16:03.396 --> 0:16:06.676 basketball game. We can recreate a reel. Right now, they're 0:16:06.676 --> 0:16:11.076 just doing fake crowd noise. Right it's a total phony experience. 0:16:11.476 --> 0:16:14.236 But if I have if I elimit, eliminate the latency 0:16:14.316 --> 0:16:18.516 for fans to react to a sporting event, I've I've 0:16:18.556 --> 0:16:22.676 got a virtual I've got a realistic virtual fan experience. 0:16:22.716 --> 0:16:25.636 Do I not. Yeah, absolutely, Honestly, I haven't even thought 0:16:25.636 --> 0:16:30.236 about sports. But I think you're totally correct, Mike, Mike, 0:16:30.356 --> 0:16:33.916 this is this is you can this is the future 0:16:33.996 --> 0:16:37.076 of this, This is That's the first thing I thought 0:16:37.116 --> 0:16:39.276 about when when I was thinking of because this is 0:16:39.316 --> 0:16:42.796 this huge because every single I don't know why I'm 0:16:42.836 --> 0:16:45.996 going on like this, but every single sporting event right 0:16:45.996 --> 0:16:49.236 now and that goes on television is suffering huge ratings declines. 0:16:49.676 --> 0:16:52.276 And that is because the experience of watching sports doesn't 0:16:52.276 --> 0:16:55.436 seem real. And if you're telling me, if it's this easy, 0:16:55.556 --> 0:16:57.396 I just have to I gotta buy it. I gotta 0:16:57.396 --> 0:16:59.516 buy a device if I want to play. But people 0:16:59.516 --> 0:17:01.756 are they were they were paying one hundred and fifty 0:17:01.756 --> 0:17:04.636 bucks for their ticket to the to one game before. 0:17:04.676 --> 0:17:08.156 I mean, it's not like people aren't used to investing 0:17:08.156 --> 0:17:10.756 in a fan experience. Yeah, it's a it's a great point. 0:17:10.796 --> 0:17:13.076 I think what one challenge we have is just with 0:17:13.156 --> 0:17:15.476 the video side of it is we can make the 0:17:15.516 --> 0:17:17.956 audio very quick, but you're still going to see things 0:17:18.276 --> 0:17:21.796 delayed on the video side. Potentially, if the delay of 0:17:21.836 --> 0:17:25.236 the video is the same for everyone who's watching, that 0:17:25.276 --> 0:17:27.316 may not be an issue, like they'll still hear each 0:17:27.316 --> 0:17:31.956 other in sync with what's happening. Yeah. Yeah. What's fascinating 0:17:31.956 --> 0:17:34.876 to me is how you start with a very very 0:17:35.036 --> 0:17:39.076 specific and very very personal problem, which is your son 0:17:39.276 --> 0:17:43.116 is bombed out that he can't sing with his chorus, 0:17:43.756 --> 0:17:46.396 And now you know, we're six months later and you're 0:17:46.396 --> 0:17:51.436 thinking about recreating the way in which we experience live music, 0:17:51.436 --> 0:17:54.876 and I'm going on and on about rescuing the NBA, 0:17:55.036 --> 0:17:58.756 And is it I mean, it's this sort of funny 0:17:58.956 --> 0:18:03.076 and fascinating picture of how innovation works. It is. It's 0:18:03.196 --> 0:18:06.596 It's amazing, isn't it. Yeah, that whole process of innovation 0:18:06.676 --> 0:18:10.236 being this this thing that builds and builds and changes 0:18:10.276 --> 0:18:12.756 over time and ways you don't even expect it to. Yeah. 0:18:13.236 --> 0:18:16.476 That's That's what I've always loved about technology. It's always 0:18:16.676 --> 0:18:21.076 drawn me into the world of entrepreneurism and creating products. 0:18:21.076 --> 0:18:23.716 And now I have the opportunity to do that in 0:18:23.756 --> 0:18:26.956 a way that involves something I really love, which is music, 0:18:27.036 --> 0:18:30.036 but also is helping people. Where could you go to 0:18:30.596 --> 0:18:34.796 listen in on something that's been performance has been conducted 0:18:34.876 --> 0:18:38.956 or recorded over virtual studio. The Rigassi Voye Chorus has 0:18:38.996 --> 0:18:43.796 recorded and published a number of our rehearsals online on YouTube, 0:18:43.876 --> 0:18:46.276 so the best place to see a few examples is 0:18:46.316 --> 0:18:49.316 probably at Rigazzi's YouTube channel. One last thing, can you 0:18:49.356 --> 0:18:52.116 give us a little sense of what listeners can do 0:18:52.716 --> 0:18:55.796 if they want to make use of this new idea 0:18:55.876 --> 0:18:57.836 or virtual studio or they want to spread the word. 0:18:57.996 --> 0:19:00.836 Do you have any practical some practical words of advice 0:19:00.876 --> 0:19:04.756 to our listeners. Yes, I'd suggest going to our website 0:19:04.796 --> 0:19:07.356 at jacktrip dot org, where we have a lot of 0:19:07.356 --> 0:19:11.156 different resources and people bowl who are volunteers available to 0:19:11.156 --> 0:19:33.916 help answer questions. Mike Dickie is co founder and chairman 0:19:34.076 --> 0:19:38.316 of the Jack Tripp Foundation and the creator of Virtual Studio. 0:19:38.996 --> 0:19:43.276 And we're hearing the Ragatzi Boys Choir from California rehearsing 0:19:43.356 --> 0:19:48.276 from over thirty locations at once using jack Trip and 0:19:48.436 --> 0:19:51.796 Virtual Studio. Be sure to check out our show notes 0:19:52.076 --> 0:19:56.196 to learn more about online music collaboration and ways you 0:19:56.196 --> 0:20:01.236 can get involved. Next week, Unsolvable, just ahead of Thanksgiving, 0:20:01.436 --> 0:20:05.916 retired NASA astronaut Scott Kelly. We'll talk about how social 0:20:05.956 --> 0:20:10.516 isolation is solvable even when feels like you're trapped alone 0:20:10.596 --> 0:20:13.196 so many miles and miles away from those who love most. 0:20:13.916 --> 0:20:18.236 I hope you'll join us. Solvable is brought to you 0:20:18.276 --> 0:20:22.316 by Pushkin Industries. Our show is produced by Camille Baptista, 0:20:22.556 --> 0:20:26.996 Senior producer jos and Frank. Catherine Gerardo is our managing 0:20:27.036 --> 0:20:31.796 producer and our Executive producer is Miilabell. Special thanks to 0:20:31.876 --> 0:20:38.036 Kobe Gilford, Heather Fane, Eric Sandler, Carle Migliori and Kadisha Holland. 0:20:38.636 --> 0:20:39.516 I'm Malcolm Bobber