Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, and welcome back to Katie's crib. In this episode,
Speaker 1: we are talking guys, I can't even I can't even
Speaker 1: say it seriously because it's it's it's so shouldn't be
Speaker 1: a thing, but it's a thing. We're talking to moms
Speaker 1: over the age of forty, women who had babies over forty, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, in case you guys didn't know, if
Speaker 1: you have a baby over the age of thirty five,
Speaker 1: it's called a geriatric pregnancy, So whatever asshole came up
Speaker 1: with that name, thank you so much. Definitely a man
Speaker 1: um so more and more women are waiting to have
Speaker 1: children later in their life for a variety of reasons.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about what it's like, the good
Speaker 1: things and the challenges and some of the unique experiences
Speaker 1: that make up what it's like to be a mom
Speaker 1: over forty. So let's get started. And what's crazy is
Speaker 1: that this awesome group of women that we have collected
Speaker 1: are sort of like the Broadway women now that I
Speaker 1: am on Broadway, but sitting next to me, we have
Speaker 1: my dear dear friend Natasha Yvette Williams, who I share
Speaker 1: a dressing room with over at waitress. Those are the
Speaker 1: sweet sounds coming out of her voice because you guys,
Speaker 1: she plays Becky and waitress and she brings the entire
Speaker 1: house down every night. Um, she's really scary because I
Speaker 1: do a huge vogal warm up and I asked her
Speaker 1: how do you warm up for your big song? And
Speaker 1: she said, I have a pepsi And that's how I
Speaker 1: knew I was in big trouble now. Um. We have
Speaker 1: also here Rachel Sklar, who is also affiliated with the
Speaker 1: Broadway because she is in a BMI workshop right now
Speaker 1: on being a lyricist, which is super exciting. Hi Rachel,
Speaker 1: Hi Rachel. We met through a mutual friend, Yes, yes
Speaker 1: we did. Um Jamie Jamie Selter, who you guys. Jamie
Speaker 1: is a guest on the Milestones episode and goes way
Speaker 1: back with my husband and me. But I was emailing
Speaker 1: her like, who do you know that's like a kick
Speaker 1: ass mom in her forties and she was like, oh,
Speaker 1: hello Brooklyn, guys, Oh please don't be sorry. We're moms.
Speaker 1: We can't even remember to self, we can't Natasha's cellphones dead,
Speaker 1: Jennifer's cellphones on. Um. Yeah, I was reaching out to
Speaker 1: Jamie like I need moms in their four days and
Speaker 1: she was like, well, you have to meet Rachel. Duh,
Speaker 1: it's so nice to meet you in person. Thank you
Speaker 1: for having me. Um. And then our last amazing guest
Speaker 1: is Jennifer Bullock and she joins us today. Is also
Speaker 1: a Broadway mama. Um, and she is actually here with
Speaker 1: her sweet sweet daughter Brooklyn, who um. If you guys
Speaker 1: hear her at any point she made, Brooklyn might be
Speaker 1: coming in and out definitely screaming. She's almost too so yes,
Speaker 1: so real quick, let's go around, Natasha. How old are
Speaker 1: your kids and how old were you when you had them?
Speaker 1: My kids are seven years. I have a set of twins,
Speaker 1: boy girl twins that are seven and I've had them
Speaker 1: at four. Yes, you look incredible, Oh my god. Okay,
Speaker 1: and Rachel you Um, it's just me. I'm a single mom.
Speaker 1: I have a daughter named Ruby who's almost three and
Speaker 1: a half. And I got knocked up at forty one
Speaker 1: had a forty two. It was not planned, but it
Speaker 1: was fortuitous. And what about you, Jennifer. Um, I got
Speaker 1: pregnant after like a lot of trying at forty four
Speaker 1: via IVF and had her. Um, you know, from when
Speaker 1: I was forty three and had her when I was
Speaker 1: forty four. Ladies, let's give us all around and applause, right, um,
Speaker 1: so all three of you, Um, it wasn't a surrogate
Speaker 1: adoption situation. All three of you guys actually got Oh
Speaker 1: you had IVF you said, yeah, right, Um? How many
Speaker 1: rounds did it take? Just one? I'm super lucky. That's great. Um.
Speaker 1: And for you guys, did you for Rachel Natasha? Did
Speaker 1: you guys have challenges conceiving? And was the doctor very
Speaker 1: much like, well, you're old and that's why, or like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I may have had challenges conceiving that I
Speaker 1: wasn't aware of, but apparently not forty one years old
Speaker 1: and old fashioned. You got straight up knocked up, straight
Speaker 1: up knocked up fairly soon into the relationship, which was
Speaker 1: short lived by my account of the calendar. Um, and uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess, uh you know, what can I say? I
Speaker 1: just had the womb of a of a non geriatric woman,
Speaker 1: I guess. And you decided, I mean you wanted to
Speaker 1: keep or you wanted to be a mom, like oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, like when you got pregnant, did you know
Speaker 1: already that the relationship may not work or work in inkling?
Speaker 1: But I always knew that I want to be a
Speaker 1: mom I had had previously. This happened when I was
Speaker 1: forty one, and during my whole forty year I had
Speaker 1: this like quiet internal existential crisis about did I miss
Speaker 1: the boat? What am I gonna do? How am I
Speaker 1: going to make this happen? You need willing sperm in
Speaker 1: order for this to happen. It is difficult to come
Speaker 1: by often, um, particularly as a single, unpartnered person, And
Speaker 1: and it was expensive otherwise, and I wasn't in a
Speaker 1: position to bankroller or even really honestly think about it.
Speaker 1: It was just so this was dumb luck. Wow, the
Speaker 1: dumbest luck. Wow wow. And um really quick to go
Speaker 1: back to you, Jennifer, like you had you been trying?
Speaker 1: Were you a relationship for a really long time? You
Speaker 1: had been trying for a while. Did you start trying
Speaker 1: after forty? Yeah? So I actually got pregnant at forty
Speaker 1: and had a miscarriage, and um, then I got pregnant
Speaker 1: really soon after that again um, and had another risk carriage.
Speaker 1: And then from there nothing just went, you know, into
Speaker 1: you did have difficulties conceiving. Did your doctor along the
Speaker 1: way say blame your age? UM. Initially no, I was
Speaker 1: living in the Midwest at the time, or actually, sorry,
Speaker 1: I was in d C. And I was seeing a
Speaker 1: doctor there who was like, hey, let's do a panel.
Speaker 1: Let's figure out what's going on with your body. Let's see,
Speaker 1: you know, if maybe you have a clouding issue or
Speaker 1: if there's something going on. So they did kind of say,
Speaker 1: you know, age could be a factor, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: like this is the factor. So we went and did
Speaker 1: a panel and did find some things that were wrong.
Speaker 1: I had did have a clouding disorder. I had UM.
Speaker 1: Also an ability folic acid I can't it's antif hr
Speaker 1: luck right g mutation, So I had that too UM
Speaker 1: And then I thought, okay, well we'll fix those problems.
Speaker 1: Started trying again and nothing, and then I finally went
Speaker 1: to see a specialist who specializes in mini IVF, which
Speaker 1: is actually four older women. The theory behind it is
Speaker 1: that IVF gives you a whole lot of drugs, which
Speaker 1: creates a whole live eggs. Like shaking an apple tree.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get unripe apples. You're gonna get apples. That
Speaker 1: apple You're just gonna shake it, and everything's gonna fall
Speaker 1: on the ground and that's what you're gonna get. Um,
Speaker 1: And he was saying that a lot of what you
Speaker 1: get in an IVF cycle and an older woman is
Speaker 1: unusable eggs. So he said, rather than give you all
Speaker 1: of that medicine, we're gonna give you just a couple
Speaker 1: of drugs to create the best eggs possible. And even
Speaker 1: though we'll only get a couple, those will be the best.
Speaker 1: So yeah. So um, anyway, so that was our journey
Speaker 1: and uh and yeah, and it was pretty awesome. And
Speaker 1: like I said, we got pregnant right away. Um, we're
Speaker 1: really lucky. And what about you, Nitasha, I had lots
Speaker 1: of problems. I miscarried as well. It's not that part,
Speaker 1: but I miscarried twice and I, um, but my doctor
Speaker 1: did not tell me it was my age. She don't
Speaker 1: my weight because I'm overweight. Um, she talked about my weight.
Speaker 1: And then we also I also got tested and I
Speaker 1: found out I had a blocked ovary. Only one of
Speaker 1: my ovaries worked or whatever or was open um. So
Speaker 1: then we did some flushing and we did a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of other stuff. Um. But I had gotten pregnant
Speaker 1: prior to that and miscarried so I knew that I
Speaker 1: could get pregnant, but just carrying it was the thing
Speaker 1: for me. And then it took like seven years and nothing.
Speaker 1: We were trying and nothing. So then I took some um,
Speaker 1: something called cloe mid trying to some kind of drug
Speaker 1: that fertility drug to help your eggs come out UM,
Speaker 1: and that's I think. So yeah, but I you know,
Speaker 1: I was having such difficulty for that stretch that I
Speaker 1: thought they weren't going to run in this family. I
Speaker 1: had a miscarriage to at thirty five, and the doctor
Speaker 1: was definitely she only said it once, but you won't
Speaker 1: forget it, which is she said, like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: there is just sometimes splitting gets I guess when the
Speaker 1: embryo or the chromosomes are splitting or that. She's like,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't know for sure yet, but like
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem to go as easily or smoothly when
Speaker 1: you're older. And I was like, say what, um, especially
Speaker 1: because I feel like, you know, we are coming into
Speaker 1: this time where there's just there's a lot I mean,
Speaker 1: we're just not getting married off at thirteen. We're just
Speaker 1: not We are told, you know, but we're told like
Speaker 1: you can have it all, you know, So you're like,
Speaker 1: hold up, if I'm supposed to have it all and
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to have this career and I'm supposed to
Speaker 1: focus on me and be a badass and get this
Speaker 1: whole career happening, than marry the right person, find a
Speaker 1: partner and all of these things, Like how am I
Speaker 1: going to get that all done by a certain age
Speaker 1: to then be a mom? I mean, it's just it's
Speaker 1: a lot. Can we go around and talk about how
Speaker 1: your pregnancy was as as being in you like, did
Speaker 1: you feel I mean, I think you can feel like
Speaker 1: shit at any age pregnant, but but were you told
Speaker 1: or do you think your pregnancy was different in any way?
Speaker 1: I know that they do actually do different sort of testing,
Speaker 1: right and watch you differently? What do you Rachel's give
Speaker 1: me if you're looking at me? So I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: go first. I'm short. I had a shockingly uneventful pregnancy.
Speaker 1: For my first time in the office, I you know,
Speaker 1: I was told I was geriatric. I found that amusing,
Speaker 1: But that was literally the only time that I was
Speaker 1: treated like I was old. I'm in New York. I
Speaker 1: went to downtown O b G Y n uh down
Speaker 1: in Soho. They were completely unfazed. Nobody treated me like
Speaker 1: I was anything other than what they had seen many times. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just everything. I had a very I was very lucky.
Speaker 1: I had a very good, happy, easy pregnancy. I you know,
Speaker 1: I just I had this adorable bumps it was. I
Speaker 1: was before I have told myself, like, don't get crazy
Speaker 1: if you put on weight, like, don't get like, just like,
Speaker 1: whatever happens, you're going to deal with it, like you
Speaker 1: have this baby, You're so lucky. But also for the
Speaker 1: through the first trimester, like every day, I just like,
Speaker 1: please just make it through the day. Please just make
Speaker 1: it through the day, because I knew what the risks
Speaker 1: for and I knew I was lucky. I knew this
Speaker 1: was a miracle baby. And by the time, I mean
Speaker 1: I like, I was not no longer with or on
Speaker 1: very good terms with with my child's father, sort of
Speaker 1: probably halfway through the first trimester. So this was the one.
Speaker 1: There wasn't there wasn't there were no more kicks that
Speaker 1: this particular can with this particular persona so um so Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I just I did. I had a really wonderful,
Speaker 1: lucky pregnancy, and I didn't you know. The only the
Speaker 1: only thing that that um went awry was when it
Speaker 1: came time for delivery, and uh, you know, I had
Speaker 1: to vary a diva cervix that didn't you know, I
Speaker 1: just didn't want to open, and so I ended up
Speaker 1: having a c section at the last minute. But I
Speaker 1: mean otherwise everything was great, you know, knocking all the
Speaker 1: wood all about. I had a horrible time. I was
Speaker 1: sick every day from the first day I even know
Speaker 1: I was pregnant, un till the child until they took
Speaker 1: the babies out. Um, I was on my floor in
Speaker 1: the bathroom because the tie was cold. Um, just sleeping
Speaker 1: every day almost I was on it every day, but
Speaker 1: I was in the majority of the time. I mean
Speaker 1: my husband would come home and know where I knew
Speaker 1: where I was on the bathroom floor, and he was
Speaker 1: like good. I was like, yep, I'm good, and I
Speaker 1: just sort of stayed there. Um. Do you think that
Speaker 1: had anything to do with age or just well? No,
Speaker 1: I think well I think looking back now, mind, you
Speaker 1: haven't never carried a baby up until except for the twins,
Speaker 1: for any length of time, and I think it was
Speaker 1: because it was twins. I had a horrible doctor as well,
Speaker 1: who made me feel awful and everything that I called
Speaker 1: and said, oh my vagina is clicking, I'm okay, you're
Speaker 1: I'm fifteen weeks. I was fifteen weeks because yes, at
Speaker 1: that first tribemester, I'm just especially after having a couple
Speaker 1: of misscaverages, I'm like, just please, can I just get
Speaker 1: to twelve weeks? You know? Um? So I got to
Speaker 1: fifteen and then my body started clicking. I was walking
Speaker 1: and making noises and a little bit of pain, and
Speaker 1: so I called the doctor and she would be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're pregnant. That's basically it, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: that kind of that's the I had. So um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I should have left, but I didn't even know enough
Speaker 1: to leave, you know what I mean. So at thirteen weeks,
Speaker 1: she said, oh, we're gonna have a c section. There's
Speaker 1: I mean, I had maybe one test prior to that,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, but can we just she said, no,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have twins, and so we're just gonna You're
Speaker 1: gonna have a C section. And I was like, oh, okay, um,
Speaker 1: because I didn't again, I didn't know enough to ask
Speaker 1: any questions. Older mom, but ignorant you know, in terms
Speaker 1: of my body and what it does, because I really
Speaker 1: didn't even want kids for until I turned that thirty
Speaker 1: eight maybe, and then all of a sudden it was everything,
Speaker 1: you know, it was I woke up, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm yes, and is this all there is? Basically, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm doing what I want to do. I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I'm having my career or whatever. But this is there
Speaker 1: got to be more to it than this. And then
Speaker 1: from that moment on it was about me giving to
Speaker 1: someone else, you know. Um so, but yes, the pregnancy
Speaker 1: itself was very difficult, and as my body changed weekly,
Speaker 1: I did not have a doctor that helped me through
Speaker 1: that and understand that and all the stuff I was findings,
Speaker 1: Oh this means you're you have diabetes or this meslah blah,
Speaker 1: and I didn't have any of those things. But I
Speaker 1: did have um, morning sickness every day, um every day.
Speaker 1: And yes, what about you, Jennifer, how do you feel
Speaker 1: how your pregnancy? Um? My pregnancy was pretty smooth and easy. However,
Speaker 1: I was pregnant in the Midwest, so I did not
Speaker 1: have the same kind of yeah cool whatever experience. They
Speaker 1: were you treated old like scared where they like by
Speaker 1: like this is like a miracle if you survive kind
Speaker 1: of Yeah. I mean my doctor was great. I don't
Speaker 1: mean that I had a bad doctor, but the general
Speaker 1: kind of energy. Yeah, the general like feeling when I
Speaker 1: went in there, I was like, whoa, She's alive, still here,
Speaker 1: still kick in. Um. So that part was did they
Speaker 1: have you do extra testing? Yeah? They did. They considered
Speaker 1: me just super high risk because I had the Linen
Speaker 1: factor five, I had the m f mt h f
Speaker 1: r G mutation, so and I was I V Yeah.
Speaker 1: So those three things together was like, were you so
Speaker 1: scared the whole time? I mean that must compound on itself,
Speaker 1: like you know I was, and I wasn't just because
Speaker 1: I was like you know what, I'm a Broadway chick,
Speaker 1: like we keep good like we we're young at hard
Speaker 1: We're not you might I might be like physically old,
Speaker 1: but I'm feeling like I'm okay. Plus I was in
Speaker 1: the fitness field, so I was you know, I had
Speaker 1: been working out regularly but prior to my pregnancy, and
Speaker 1: I was working out through my pregnancy, so I was
Speaker 1: doing things to help myself. Um. But yeah, so anyway,
Speaker 1: there were lots of extra tests. Um. There was just
Speaker 1: a general kind of theme of let's cross our fingers
Speaker 1: and hope that you get through it. And um, I
Speaker 1: did have morning sickness, but it kind of waned after
Speaker 1: the three months, which was good. And then after that
Speaker 1: I felt pretty well. I didn't have any complications of
Speaker 1: any sort. Um. My doctor threw a curveball at me
Speaker 1: at like thirty eight weeks, was like, we're going to
Speaker 1: induce you next week. And I had been like I
Speaker 1: wanted to go into labor naturally, like I was trying.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be naturally, wanted to go into labor naturally.
Speaker 1: I wanted to just kind of try to not have
Speaker 1: any drugs. So that one was a little like I had.
Speaker 1: The same thing happened, and it was because of my age. Again,
Speaker 1: I think I think there's I think actually, and I
Speaker 1: don't know because we don't have a documents episode, but
Speaker 1: I think there is. I think there are Actually, when
Speaker 1: you're above thirty five, certain insurance companies do require you
Speaker 1: to do extra testing. I think that that come with
Speaker 1: your insurance package of being pregnant or whatever above a
Speaker 1: certain age. I'm pretty sure, but that yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: thirty five geriatric test that could hurt your baby too,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean that they amniotic strongly recommend
Speaker 1: you take and right do you remember? I did not.
Speaker 1: I felt like the other tests had made me sufficiently confident.
Speaker 1: I mean, who could be confident in anything? But I
Speaker 1: sort of made my piece with that that I didn't.
Speaker 1: I I felt I was so shaky about that first
Speaker 1: trimester and you know the delicate balance of just getting
Speaker 1: through it, that I was like, I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: interfering with that ecosystem. Yeah. I I was told around
Speaker 1: thirty eight or nine weeks that Albie's stomach was not
Speaker 1: growing at the percentage rate that they wanted him to.
Speaker 1: And so they said the same to me, like you're
Speaker 1: not going a day over forty weeks, we're gonna induce you.
Speaker 1: And I was so pissed because I of course had
Speaker 1: this birth plan in my head of like, the baby's
Speaker 1: going to go into labor naturally and he's going to
Speaker 1: decide his birth date, dime into astrology, all this hippie
Speaker 1: dippie crap um. But he said the specialist in l A,
Speaker 1: like the number one guy, was like, oh no, no,
Speaker 1: you're thirty five, You're not going a day over over
Speaker 1: your forty week mark, um, which you know that's like
Speaker 1: a super you know, in in Europe and Canada and
Speaker 1: things like that, they actually have like labor windows where
Speaker 1: it's like they're they're good within three weeks early or
Speaker 1: forty two weeks late, whatever. But here in the States,
Speaker 1: it's very much like this date. Um, So, I was
Speaker 1: induced and it was totally because of my age, um
Speaker 1: because he came out completely fine. But um so, um
Speaker 1: did you guys? Yeah, I got yes, I had a
Speaker 1: like a surgery, like I went to sleep. Oh yes,
Speaker 1: she had one of those labors that we talked about
Speaker 1: on this podcast. Yeah. In season one are my Obi
Speaker 1: was like, oh yeah, it could even get so bad
Speaker 1: that they knock you out for your favor for a
Speaker 1: twelve hours. And I met the person that they did
Speaker 1: that too, and it's Natasha. I didn't meet my babies
Speaker 1: until twelve hours later. But um, and I didn't find
Speaker 1: out that's how you story boy, a boy and a girl.
Speaker 1: I didn't know their sexiest prior to two. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to know their sexiest so um because I was
Speaker 1: waiting on the doctor to say it's a boy, it's
Speaker 1: a girl. I really wanted that, sure, and I did
Speaker 1: that to happen. But anyway, so that didn't happen because
Speaker 1: my epidural didn't work. So because I have a my
Speaker 1: spine is bent or something. So anyway, they couldn't get
Speaker 1: the epidural to work because I wanted drugs. I did
Speaker 1: want drugs and I wanted to just be awake to
Speaker 1: hear them say what was But anyway, Um, but anyway,
Speaker 1: that didn't work. So then they had to put me
Speaker 1: to sleep. But did they ask you? Did they say
Speaker 1: we're going to be putting you under I mean I don't.
Speaker 1: They said they have to. They told me they have
Speaker 1: to put me to sleep because the door didn't work
Speaker 1: and we had waited too long for anything else I
Speaker 1: think to work. So um, but the day prior to that,
Speaker 1: my I had them at thirty seven weeks. Um, but
Speaker 1: I had a scheduled c section at forty weeks. But
Speaker 1: when I went in, you know at that time, you're
Speaker 1: going in weekly or whatever, and um, one of them
Speaker 1: was sitting on the other or smushing Baby A, was
Speaker 1: smushing baby B. And then they so then they said
Speaker 1: tomorrow you have to come and let's take her out,
Speaker 1: take them out now, um, tomorrow. So that was my
Speaker 1: So they induced you give you that you tried to
Speaker 1: do it and no, no, no, they didn't induce me.
Speaker 1: They I didn't try to do it. I was always
Speaker 1: going to do a C section from thirteen weeks, not
Speaker 1: by choice, but that's what my doctor told me that
Speaker 1: I had to do because as I was having twins.
Speaker 1: That's what she told me. Um. So I knew I
Speaker 1: was having a c section, but it was just supposed
Speaker 1: to be two weeks later than me going in and
Speaker 1: send them saying, oh no, this baby is you know,
Speaker 1: getting smashed, so let's take them out, um at thirty
Speaker 1: seven weeks. Ever, fine, they were fine. They stayed in
Speaker 1: the nick for a while. But I'm saying, you know, so,
Speaker 1: what kind of um like going from what I also
Speaker 1: think is crazy about having a baby in your forties
Speaker 1: and thirty five. I'm just gonna let myself in with
Speaker 1: you guys, UM is that you've already been an adult
Speaker 1: doing your own crap for like a really long time,
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean? Like I think there
Speaker 1: are people who have babies in their early twenties or
Speaker 1: they were mid twenties, and like, come on, let's be honest,
Speaker 1: they still don't even like really, I mean, you're they're
Speaker 1: just becoming adults themselves, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 1: we're sitting here and like we all had careers when
Speaker 1: we were working double the adult time, double the adult time.
Speaker 1: So like was it's such a shock for you guys,
Speaker 1: like to all of a sudden, you're forty years around
Speaker 1: the sun and now we are high Brooklyn. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: talking about you and how awesome you are. You're forty
Speaker 1: years around the sun. Like now all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you you're not the center of that anymore, or like
Speaker 1: your life is drastically changing because you've been an adult
Speaker 1: for longer. Like well, I do actually think that there's
Speaker 1: a distinction here between being in your being five you'r
Speaker 1: late thirties and being over forty because of the sort
Speaker 1: of like the intense emotional journey that takes place between
Speaker 1: you know, at thirty five, at least for me, you're
Speaker 1: just being treated like a real adult as a woman, right,
Speaker 1: Like women are so diminished and marginalized and just naturally
Speaker 1: like it's so career wise, you're sort of like just
Speaker 1: hitting your stride. You're just that That was my experience um,
Speaker 1: and you know, but also like people change how they
Speaker 1: approach you, like when you're when you're thirty five, they're like, so,
Speaker 1: when are you gonna have kids? I turned forty, people
Speaker 1: stopped asking me even if I wanted kids, everyone just
Speaker 1: to seem even my parents, the conversation just ended. So
Speaker 1: they're like there, like there's no chance. But there's like
Speaker 1: a personal internal grappling if you do want children, or
Speaker 1: if there's something that you have been sort of thinking about,
Speaker 1: if you're if you just think, you know, like I'm
Speaker 1: gonna meet this person or whatever. Maybe you're in a
Speaker 1: long relationship that doesn't work out, whatever happens, because there's
Speaker 1: a lot of things that can't work out or that
Speaker 1: go you know, as you have not expected. Let's be honest, like,
Speaker 1: you know, the life that goes according to plan is
Speaker 1: kind of a boring life. Um. But the so that
Speaker 1: you you also there's like a coming to grips with it.
Speaker 1: So for me, I didn't by the time I realized
Speaker 1: I was pregnant, there was there the window for I
Speaker 1: haven't done this, I haven't done that, like that had
Speaker 1: firmly passed. And so I think that for me, even
Speaker 1: though career wise, I've definitely given up a lot by
Speaker 1: being a single mom and just I just can't attend
Speaker 1: the same things. I can't show up in the same way.
Speaker 1: But you know, I always in my head, I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I had all that, I had all that, the freedom
Speaker 1: to like run around and do everything, but I didn't
Speaker 1: have Ruby. Now I have Ruby, and that's sort of
Speaker 1: that's everything. Yep, yep, yeah. I think forty is this
Speaker 1: huge looming number because my girlfriends in l A like
Speaker 1: that are single or you know, they have that number
Speaker 1: drilled into their mind of like, well, us external it
Speaker 1: has to be like if I'm thirty seven and I
Speaker 1: don't meet the guy by thirty eight and then get
Speaker 1: married by thirty nine, if we want to date for
Speaker 1: a year and then get pregnant, like I'm never going
Speaker 1: to make it in under the forty market's never gonna
Speaker 1: happen for me. And then what happens after forty is
Speaker 1: it just my vagina drives up and is dead, Like
Speaker 1: clearly not in Rachel's case, clearly not Natasha's place, and
Speaker 1: clearly on Jennifer's case. So really hope it's still going
Speaker 1: strong and you're good to go, Like I am single.
Speaker 1: I mean, oy, that portion of the podcast on my
Speaker 1: bumble profile fantastic Katie's Crib and the crib knows you
Speaker 1: will be finding Rachel Sclars bumble Um. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know what, Like, I don't know where in society
Speaker 1: that number, Like, if thirty five is the geriatric pregnancy,
Speaker 1: what is it about forty that is the fucking thing? Um? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I believe that you're in the same way that
Speaker 1: I had an experience with Gosh, let's hope you live. Um.
Speaker 1: A lot of doctors just don't believe the pregnancy. I mean,
Speaker 1: and you know there is you know, your body's aging,
Speaker 1: it's changing. But I know so many women that have
Speaker 1: gotten pregnant over forty that I start to wonder if
Speaker 1: these beliefs that your potential is one percent or whatever
Speaker 1: there's two percent, is actually factual. I just don't I
Speaker 1: just don't know. Well, they say that over thirty five
Speaker 1: your eggs come out faster. You know, you're produce see
Speaker 1: more eggs after because the eggs are just trying to
Speaker 1: get out. You got all these million, a million eggs,
Speaker 1: and right they're coming out faster because your body's like okay,
Speaker 1: we're taking what's going on. You haven't done anything with
Speaker 1: me yet, you know what I mean? So they're they're
Speaker 1: kicking out faster, so you actually can get pregnant easier.
Speaker 1: I'm not easier, but with more eggs ratio after thirty five,
Speaker 1: because they're coming out at a doubled rate. Did you
Speaker 1: the um? Your body can make babies because it's that's
Speaker 1: what it's designed to do. Let's talk about disadvantage and advantages,
Speaker 1: which Rachel touched on, which was, you know, we got
Speaker 1: to live some awesome adult years. Um. I always think
Speaker 1: about the disadvantage of like, you know, my mom was
Speaker 1: twenty six when she got pregnant with me, and we've
Speaker 1: had this beautiful, incredible adult relationship for a really long time,
Speaker 1: and she, god willing, is going to be around for
Speaker 1: a lot of my son's life. You know, she's sixty
Speaker 1: two years old, and um, do you guys I sometimes
Speaker 1: think about you know, like my friend that's dad is
Speaker 1: forty seven and has a newborn, right, it's hilarious, Brooklyn, Um,
Speaker 1: But like what happens at their college graduation when the
Speaker 1: dad is seventy seven? You know, Like, do you guys
Speaker 1: think about that? Do you care yes, I think about
Speaker 1: you do because you're a one year old. You're forty
Speaker 1: four and you have a one to year so, but
Speaker 1: initially it never I never really thought of it until
Speaker 1: I was at a Walmart in Kansas and the lady
Speaker 1: was like my grandma, and I just was my ward.
Speaker 1: If you don't know, just don't ask. And I just
Speaker 1: discovered other people making a bigger deal out of it, like, oh,
Speaker 1: look at you, you know, just you know, how are
Speaker 1: you feeling? How's it keeping up with the tither? I'm like,
Speaker 1: what do you think? Like, I don't know. So I
Speaker 1: felt like society kind of made me feel that way.
Speaker 1: I didn't feel that way initially, but society, please don't
Speaker 1: eat my shoe. But society was making me feel that way.
Speaker 1: And then as a result, all of a sudden, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, no, you know, I'm an old mom.
Speaker 1: Am I gonna miss? Like? Am I going to be
Speaker 1: there for my daughter when she's older and going through
Speaker 1: some difficulties? You know? So I started to think of
Speaker 1: it after society made a big deal of it, which
Speaker 1: was kind of a drag because it didn't really even
Speaker 1: dawn on me until that point. What about um, I
Speaker 1: think about it a lot, and I thought about it
Speaker 1: because my my mother had me at thirty two, which
Speaker 1: at that time, I think she's old. Because everybody in
Speaker 1: my class that I went to school with, all their
Speaker 1: moms were younger than my mom and my dad. So
Speaker 1: I always felt like I had an older parent. UM,
Speaker 1: and my brother is thirteen years younger than me. My
Speaker 1: mother had him at forty two. Forty two and she
Speaker 1: was dead to the world in the bed she could
Speaker 1: not We were in North Carolina, UM and had her daughter.
Speaker 1: Her daughter was great, but just society and our environment,
Speaker 1: our community was very judgmental of her. I think, um,
Speaker 1: and she's married, now married and had a baby, but
Speaker 1: it was it was a surprise to her and UM.
Speaker 1: But my brother said something to me about UM because
Speaker 1: they were forty two when he was born. He has
Speaker 1: because my mother passed in November. He said he was
Speaker 1: always expecting them to not be around because they were older,
Speaker 1: and that was his position as a person who was
Speaker 1: born to a forty two year old mother. So so yes,
Speaker 1: I think about it. But because he said that to me,
Speaker 1: I think about it because I'm like, oh, I've done
Speaker 1: the same thing, and now my kids, my mother's gone
Speaker 1: and she didn't. I mean, she met my my children,
Speaker 1: but they don't have the same type of relationship with
Speaker 1: a grandmother that I, you know, would have wished for them.
Speaker 1: So that's certainly a downside. What do you think for me?
Speaker 1: I think about it all the time too. I mean
Speaker 1: I thought about it a lot prior to Ruby. My
Speaker 1: parents didn't have grandchildren, and I you know, that was
Speaker 1: a big part of wanting a child was also to
Speaker 1: give them that it was just part of the package
Speaker 1: of um. And you know, we our family, it's I
Speaker 1: have a sister, we had a brother who passed away early,
Speaker 1: and sort of we like in the family. I it
Speaker 1: was like this feeling of like, oh, there's this like
Speaker 1: peace that isn't happening. And then when Ruby was born,
Speaker 1: it you know, our family was a family of five again,
Speaker 1: and you know that the joy like there's no guarantees
Speaker 1: on anything, there's really like I think about that even
Speaker 1: like honestly getting anytime, like getting into a getting into
Speaker 1: the uber today, like I walking into the house, I'm like,
Speaker 1: like the not to be like really like a downer,
Speaker 1: but just I often think about when I get on
Speaker 1: the FDR, like I hope it don't get into an
Speaker 1: accent like this thing makes a more life or death cycle.
Speaker 1: Until being I never had so many thoughts of like,
Speaker 1: when I'm driving a car, just all of you owning me,
Speaker 1: and because you're so you just really feel part of
Speaker 1: this sort of human flow cycle. Well particularly and yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean you you particularly have been part of enterprises
Speaker 1: that have contemplated death in many forms. So I mean
Speaker 1: it's just you. Yeah, So I do I think about that.
Speaker 1: I don't think about it in terms of me that much.
Speaker 1: And maybe it's because I'm I'm a single mom. I
Speaker 1: live in New York. I sort of I roll with
Speaker 1: whoever I'm rolling with. I mean, I'm I don't feel
Speaker 1: like the old mom in in the mom group I am,
Speaker 1: but I know you the oldest I am. I am,
Speaker 1: but it and sometimes I'm like, wow, I'm like a
Speaker 1: decade old than you, um you know, to like some
Speaker 1: of my mom friends. But I don't know, I feel
Speaker 1: I like I'm I'm Ruby's mom. Ruby. I don't think
Speaker 1: Ruby would look around and be like I wish I
Speaker 1: had a younger mom. I mean, I'm sure when she's thirteen,
Speaker 1: she'll look at other moms and be like mom, the
Speaker 1: other moms are so much cool. I mean, thank you.
Speaker 1: But your kid at thirteen, I'm pretty sure she's not
Speaker 1: going to think it, but would be an age probably,
Speaker 1: But I mean, I do I think about that. I
Speaker 1: just you know, we're so lucky that we can take
Speaker 1: like so many like photos and videos like we can,
Speaker 1: we can. I have enough, And I think about I
Speaker 1: have enough sort of digital stuff to preserve, like like,
Speaker 1: at least my daughter will be able to know her
Speaker 1: family members of God forbid, somebody is not there at
Speaker 1: least people to say, look at how much they loved you,
Speaker 1: even though you can't not do it if you want,
Speaker 1: if you want to do it, yeah, it's not I mean,
Speaker 1: even even at my loss, I don't think I do
Speaker 1: it any differently, you know, I don't. I don't think
Speaker 1: I do it any differently because the joy of them
Speaker 1: is worth even the price is. Oh I hope I'm
Speaker 1: around for longer to help them become who I want
Speaker 1: them to be. So there's this rush to get all
Speaker 1: that information in sometimes, but um, the choice that there
Speaker 1: was no other choice, you know, no other choice, no otherwise,
Speaker 1: and they had to had to happen regardless of how
Speaker 1: you know, if I had been fifty or however old
Speaker 1: um Janet Jackson just like fifty right now? Damn? Can
Speaker 1: we what about advantages? Because I think, I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel like there are definite advantages. Definitely being more established,
Speaker 1: hopefully you know, hopefully enabled to in terms of care
Speaker 1: for your child or do some things that you know
Speaker 1: you would like to do, and having traveled or done
Speaker 1: whatever you wanted to do, had time to do that
Speaker 1: makes you more I mean I was like in twenties,
Speaker 1: I had zero dollars, like zero, I mean, I was
Speaker 1: a waitress. And yes there's that thing like you don't
Speaker 1: need money for a baby, you just need love and
Speaker 1: like fine, but yeah, but like I literally having in
Speaker 1: one room and I could have done it, but it
Speaker 1: would have looked very different. And I have to say,
Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time and career and valued
Speaker 1: time on my career to get to a place and
Speaker 1: have health insurance. And I have to say, like these
Speaker 1: worries about whether or not I'm going to be around
Speaker 1: for his whole thing or whatever. It's like yeah, but
Speaker 1: then in my twenties, I would have been completely worried
Speaker 1: about him having fucking health insurance. So it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: I yes, And I traveled a bunch, which was great,
Speaker 1: and I got to spend a lot of really lovely
Speaker 1: quality time with my husband, who I haven't seen in
Speaker 1: the entire year of Albi's life except on stage at waitress. Um,
Speaker 1: but what do you guys advantages for you have them? Um?
Speaker 1: I kind of agree with what you were saying Rachel
Speaker 1: before how like I didn't really know myself until I
Speaker 1: turned forty. I didn't know who I was or what
Speaker 1: I mean I was. I stellf still feel like I'm learning,
Speaker 1: but I definitely kind of established myself as a human
Speaker 1: being somewhere around the age of forty. So like Natasha
Speaker 1: was saying, like I was more suited, more capable of
Speaker 1: taking care of a child because I was comfortable with
Speaker 1: who I was. I was not wishing that I was
Speaker 1: doing other things like getting my nails painted or club nine.
Speaker 1: Actually never clubbed, you know something like that. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: I just was happy being me and I knew what
Speaker 1: I would be able to offer a child. And I
Speaker 1: think that nature has ad percent got it wrong. I
Speaker 1: think that women in their forties are in something not
Speaker 1: for everybody. Obviously, you can be supermature and be sixteen.
Speaker 1: But a lot of women in their forties are just
Speaker 1: more capable, more suitable, more able to be the mom
Speaker 1: my daughter's on the phone, um, more capable to be
Speaker 1: the mom that you know I wanted to be, you know,
Speaker 1: and um, So I think there's a huge advantage to waiting,
Speaker 1: in a huge advantage to really being secure in yourself
Speaker 1: and knowing who you are and having done all those
Speaker 1: things I've done nationally, tours like I've had, I've traveled,
Speaker 1: I've done it, and now it's her. It's everything about her.
Speaker 1: So I think, like the the identity piece that you're
Speaker 1: talking about, right is um for me. I get a
Speaker 1: kick out of being known as Ruby's mom. Like I
Speaker 1: don't feel like, oh, you don't feel resented, Like I
Speaker 1: don't feel like my I don't have an identity or
Speaker 1: or it's being subsumed in the mom thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm in a lot of mom groups. I love mom groups.
Speaker 1: I stand for mom groups. So do I. But I
Speaker 1: and so I see I see so like you know
Speaker 1: a lot of women who really struggle with their identity
Speaker 1: being seemed into that of their children, particularly if they're
Speaker 1: if they're staying home and so I mean the first
Speaker 1: A lot of my friends told me, like, the first
Speaker 1: few years are gonna be hard. They're gonna be hard.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be hard to see the career things that
Speaker 1: you want to do, you're not gonna be able to
Speaker 1: do them. And it's just it's just powerful, of course,
Speaker 1: and I and I really did see like a turning
Speaker 1: point when Ruby was around like two two and a half.
Speaker 1: I just was able to do more things. And then
Speaker 1: I was able to do the b and my musical
Speaker 1: theater workshop and just you know, you have a whole
Speaker 1: other life. But um, you know, when when you talk
Speaker 1: about being forty, being more established, like I was definitely
Speaker 1: more established in my career, but I was also an entrepreneur, freelancer, creative.
Speaker 1: So in my twenties, I was a lawyer. So if
Speaker 1: I had gotten pregnant as a lawyer in my twenties,
Speaker 1: I would have had far fewer financial concerns. When you
Speaker 1: talk about living in a room, I was in a
Speaker 1: room I was my first year with Ruby was in
Speaker 1: my studio apartment on the Lower East Side. That was
Speaker 1: my like you know, like my I'm in my thirties.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm not going to move when I get
Speaker 1: into my forties apartment. Um, and it and it worked.
Speaker 1: It was fine. I mean, I you know, slapping her
Speaker 1: in the car seat with everything up four flights of
Speaker 1: stairs whatever, everybody makes it work. I and but then
Speaker 1: also having Ruby or Funny, and I was pregnant, just
Speaker 1: was the fire needed to light under me. I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm a single mom. I'm gonna response for this child.
Speaker 1: I guess I have to start putting making money, you know,
Speaker 1: ahead in the priority list. And as a creative you
Speaker 1: you're always like money. You know what I wanted to
Speaker 1: I want to do my art. I mean there's nobody
Speaker 1: who can say more definitively like I prioritize my creative
Speaker 1: life over money than a person who left law to
Speaker 1: be a freelance writer. I mean, had I stayed in law,
Speaker 1: things would have been very different right now. Um, but
Speaker 1: for you, part of me not meant for you know,
Speaker 1: but but I do think that there is something about
Speaker 1: no matter where you are, there is something very clarifying
Speaker 1: about when I touched I said before is said, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm responsible for another person. It's not about me anymore.
Speaker 1: Are time to get the financial house in order, so
Speaker 1: a couple more questions, how did your um. We talked
Speaker 1: a little bit about this, Rachel, But did any of
Speaker 1: you guys have and you talked about this in the
Speaker 1: Midwest Doctor's feeling some way, But did you guys have
Speaker 1: any family or friends that reacted poorly or wonderfully to
Speaker 1: you guys? Being pregny into the age you are like,
Speaker 1: my dad was nervous. Like I'd be like, Dad, are
Speaker 1: you excited. He'd be like, well, I'm anxious. I'm like,
Speaker 1: are you but anxious and excited. He'd like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: excited and anxious. Um, but you know, but otherwise, my
Speaker 1: my family's is amazing. Yeah, my my sister has been
Speaker 1: a godsend. I mean I really I often don't feel
Speaker 1: like a single parent, Like I like, I started something
Speaker 1: called the Luckiest. I always say I'm so lucky. To Ruby,
Speaker 1: I'm always say we're the luckiest. I feel really lucky.
Speaker 1: I am very supported. I have a great sister, she
Speaker 1: comes and visits all the time. My family, my parents
Speaker 1: are amazing. My cousin Jacob, who lives in New York,
Speaker 1: always comes like we have I have a great village. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a UM. I don't remember right, you have
Speaker 1: to have a village. I don't think I've had anybody unsupportive.
Speaker 1: I did have people a little nervous for me, just
Speaker 1: because of my losses, um and because um when my
Speaker 1: second mischaracters were very soon after my first UM, so
Speaker 1: I got right back on the horse and they were like, look,
Speaker 1: can you just stick ammitted? And then there was this
Speaker 1: dry spell and I was like, no, we gotta go,
Speaker 1: we go, you know. Um. But I didn't have anybody
Speaker 1: that was really unsupportive. I just had a few people
Speaker 1: that were a little nervous for me. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: think I would say the same people were definitely cautious around.
Speaker 1: You know. How's how you how you feeling everything? Okay?
Speaker 1: I mean, do you guys feel that like the support
Speaker 1: system that you guys are talking about is it. Do
Speaker 1: you feel like it's different or more involved than other
Speaker 1: less involved because everyone's like, oh, you're old enough, you
Speaker 1: were you're you're you're good to go. And I will
Speaker 1: say to that same extent, um, my father is no
Speaker 1: longer alive and my mother is too elderly to help
Speaker 1: with my daughter. So I don't have that same kind
Speaker 1: of you know, oh, mom will come over and watch.
Speaker 1: You know, my mother in law is some more than capable,
Speaker 1: but they lived down in North Carolina, so it's far away.
Speaker 1: So my family, my you know, my my older brother,
Speaker 1: he has kid, he's had his kids. They're one of
Speaker 1: them in college already. So that was the weird thing
Speaker 1: for me was just having this like nobody really available.
Speaker 1: My younger brother just recently, who's forty five, just recently
Speaker 1: had a child. It's six months older than Brooklyn. Wow.
Speaker 1: So but we live about an hour and a half apart,
Speaker 1: so that makes it a little bit challenging to But yeah,
Speaker 1: so for me, like the support system is there in theory,
Speaker 1: but not in my every day and my every day
Speaker 1: it's in her all the time, no nanny, no sitters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's here right now representing My own support system is
Speaker 1: mostly friends and a few family members because I don't
Speaker 1: have any family near me. My husband has a brother,
Speaker 1: a couple of brothers here and so they're family helps
Speaker 1: out and reaches out. But I missed because I'm from
Speaker 1: North Carolina in a big family, and I really miss
Speaker 1: everybody chipping in. And my sister lives in Virginia and
Speaker 1: it's just so far, but we make sure the kids
Speaker 1: are together every summer and um, but but I would
Speaker 1: love a little bit more village, you know, um, just
Speaker 1: for my own sanity. And you're very good at like
Speaker 1: you have a really good nanny, syt today today the
Speaker 1: nanny is great. Um. But yeah, it's it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's but it has not stopped in seven years. It
Speaker 1: had not stopped in terms of me searching and trying
Speaker 1: to find what is right. Yeah, yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: created one. I created my village. First of all. Living
Speaker 1: in New York, you have a village of helpers in
Speaker 1: the form of apps. Right, I can get food delivered
Speaker 1: to me, you know, Amazon Prime. I can get what
Speaker 1: I need very easily, which is helpful. That's still, I
Speaker 1: don't want to sugarcoat what it is to be a
Speaker 1: single mother, or even just to be a mother, like
Speaker 1: like just having a child, having the responsibility of a
Speaker 1: child and the needs of a child. It's not like,
Speaker 1: I mean, Brooklyn is being extraordinarily right now, but it's
Speaker 1: you know, there were many many times I would bring
Speaker 1: Ruby with me to a conference or whatever, and like
Speaker 1: a lot of times even when I'd be I I
Speaker 1: do tv UM here and there and I'd be asked
Speaker 1: to do a remote segment and it would just be
Speaker 1: me and her, and I'd be like, the only way
Speaker 1: I can be sure that she's going to be quiet
Speaker 1: is if I nurse her on camera. So f y
Speaker 1: I if she comes off the boob, we might have
Speaker 1: to end the segment. But I did segments like that
Speaker 1: a bunch of times. It was totally fine. Um, it
Speaker 1: just it does requires just some doing. But um, I
Speaker 1: will say that when I put her in daycare, it's
Speaker 1: such a fruitful relationship with the other moms. I these
Speaker 1: are her friends. These are best friends. I mean, and
Speaker 1: I love the moms like we have the greatest time,
Speaker 1: it really and so that that has been a definite
Speaker 1: benefit to me. So I have this great village because
Speaker 1: I do my family. They live in Toronto, and um,
Speaker 1: it can be hard sometimes it's but um yeah, it's
Speaker 1: really everything seems really easy when you're sitting talking about it,
Speaker 1: when you're like you have a deadline and your child
Speaker 1: is screaming or whatever, just pooped all over the place.
Speaker 1: Like it's not always. I've had some people like like
Speaker 1: talking about this social media or whatever. I don't know
Speaker 1: that we were talking about it but I'm talking about now,
Speaker 1: like you know, like you say, when you're when you're
Speaker 1: having those moments where, um, your child is throwing macaroni
Speaker 1: across the room or whatever they're doing being children, and
Speaker 1: then you have the judgment of people like say I said,
Speaker 1: I tweeted one day, Oh my god, somebody helped me.
Speaker 1: My child just put macaroni all over blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: And then to have attacks I've had attacks this way. Um,
Speaker 1: you should be grateful you have those children. And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I'm grateful, but I don't want mcaroni,
Speaker 1: yes and cheez it's all in the furniture. I'm grateful.
Speaker 1: But to have that type of um mentality come thrown
Speaker 1: at you and to say, you know, you should know
Speaker 1: better and you should blah blah blah. I think we
Speaker 1: as women need to help and parents just give ourselves
Speaker 1: a little bit more of a break, you know, um
Speaker 1: for the human side of Yeah, that's a huge guilt
Speaker 1: in this in this podcast because we have so many moms.
Speaker 1: Is yes, the judgment and surrounding yourself with people and
Speaker 1: loved ones in your village, whoever that may be, whether
Speaker 1: it's chosen or blood or whatever. But like people who
Speaker 1: support you and don't judge you. And and um, I
Speaker 1: want to go around really quickly while we before we end,
Speaker 1: and just say, do you guys have any words of
Speaker 1: wisdom or advice to a either women who are in
Speaker 1: their forties and may not have a kid but really
Speaker 1: want one, or maybe a new mom who's in her
Speaker 1: forties and just had a baby. Doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: rocket science, can just be like good luck whatever, say
Speaker 1: that you can. You can be a mom. There are
Speaker 1: millions of ways to do it. Um. I have so
Speaker 1: many friends who had performing careers who chose to become
Speaker 1: mothers later in life, and whether they did it with
Speaker 1: their own eggs, a donor egg, they adopted a child,
Speaker 1: they used to surrogate. Um, you know, I know literally
Speaker 1: a woman that has done every one of those roots
Speaker 1: and they are all so happy and in love with
Speaker 1: their children. So I don't think that you ever have
Speaker 1: to write motherhood off. UM. I feel that I can
Speaker 1: always be something that can be in your life if
Speaker 1: you choose for it to be there. I love that.
Speaker 1: That's great, Rachel, all of that for sure, I think, Um.
Speaker 1: I always I always say that I'm a cautionary tale.
Speaker 1: Because I just got so lucky. I would never say
Speaker 1: you can't plan for luck. Luck is not a strategy.
Speaker 1: If you want to have children, then definitely do as
Speaker 1: I say, not as I did, because I flailed for
Speaker 1: years and and wanted it, didn't want to articulate it
Speaker 1: this there's still this sort of feeling like shame in
Speaker 1: admitting that you haven't found the partner to have the children,
Speaker 1: like you know, and this was this was all what
Speaker 1: I had, bottling me up and feeling like, what's wrong
Speaker 1: with me? What am I? Am I going to be
Speaker 1: able to do it? Doing that calculus of like am
Speaker 1: I gonna like when I meet him? How soon is
Speaker 1: it to be able to be impregnated? Like that's a
Speaker 1: crazy way to think in relation and you don't even
Speaker 1: you don't need the relationship. I have been a very
Speaker 1: happy single mom. I am delighted that she has a
Speaker 1: good relationship with her father. I am delighted that we
Speaker 1: were never legally bound, and I am pretty sure that
Speaker 1: he feels the same way. Uh, and so I think.
Speaker 1: But I will say also is in terms of legality,
Speaker 1: is if there's no shame in in asking for help
Speaker 1: and support the you know, the the villa kind. Thank
Speaker 1: you Hillary Clinton for that phrase. Um and uh and
Speaker 1: the legally obligated kind too. I see so many women
Speaker 1: again in these mom groups and my single mom groups
Speaker 1: who say that they didn't want to ask for helper.
Speaker 1: That I mean, it's it's it's paying for your child.
Speaker 1: It's that's what we do. That's what we all do,
Speaker 1: what all parents should do. I love that. I just
Speaker 1: have advice for just dotting everything that has been said before.
Speaker 1: If you want children, do it, just do it. Do
Speaker 1: like Nike. I'm a supporter of Nike. Um, just do
Speaker 1: it um. Because and that doesn't mean you have to
Speaker 1: birth them or whatever. It doesn't doesn't mean anything. It
Speaker 1: just means see a child that that needs and you
Speaker 1: can go and parent and help and help that parent
Speaker 1: or mentor or do whatever you can to sort of
Speaker 1: feel the need or the emptiness that you might feel
Speaker 1: inside of your that's what you're feeling for being a mother.
Speaker 1: If you want to be a mother, be a mother,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't have to be a child that comes
Speaker 1: from you. Um. And then if you are an older mother,
Speaker 1: I want to say, just leave all the shame, the guilt,
Speaker 1: the judgment and all that stuff. Out the door. I
Speaker 1: love your child. Do the best you can every day,
Speaker 1: get up, do the best you can, try to do
Speaker 1: better than you did yesterday, and that's all you can do.
Speaker 1: Cannot thank you guys. Thank you, thank you, Natasha, thank you, Rachel,
Speaker 1: thank you, Jennifer, thank you, Brooklyn, Thank you guys so much.
Speaker 1: This is so inspiring. I can't even tell you and
Speaker 1: I like Brooklyn says bye bye, say bye Katie's Crib.
Speaker 1: Can you say that bye? Thank you guys so much
Speaker 1: for listening and for your amazing feedback and tweets and
Speaker 1: messages and reviews and sharing Katie's Crib with your friends
Speaker 1: and your family. It means so so much to me,
Speaker 1: So please keep it coming and check us out on
Speaker 1: shawanda land dot com. Make sure to subscribe so you
Speaker 1: never miss an episode. We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher,
Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts. Do I love you
Speaker 1: want it Where I want to want you? I love
Speaker 1: you want to get you where I want you. I
Speaker 1: don't you want it where I want to want you.
Speaker 1: I lot to get you where I want you