1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: My name is Evil Longoria and I am Myra and 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores are 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: past and present through food. 4 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 2: On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 2: of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages from our culture. 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 3: So make yourself at home. 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: When you know, every time I open up my email 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: on a podcast day, I read the episode and I'm like, 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: how did might they come up with? 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 3: This? Mustard is something that I really leaned into. I 11 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 3: was like, tell me more. And you know, if you 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:43,919 Speaker 3: ever heard the. 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: Expression you can't cut the mustard, it means you can't 14 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: hack it, you're not meeting the expectations. 15 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 3: But where did that come from? What is that? 16 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: Why is it you can't you can't cut mustard. I'm 17 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: really good at everything, and I can't cut mustard. 18 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: Well, they don't really know where this term came from from. 19 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: The first time it actually appears is in. 20 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 3: A dictionary in Texas. 21 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: Maybe it was like you can't mustard it and then 22 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 2: somebody has said mustard. 23 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 4: So it's a very bizarre expression. 24 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: And yes, I come up with the weirdest the topics 25 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,839 Speaker 2: because I'm literally interested in absolutely everything. 26 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 3: Everything me too. 27 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 2: And mustard is one of the first domesticated crops, and 28 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: you were just in dijon. I was, indeed, So it's like, well, 29 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 2: of course we're going to talk about mustard. 30 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 3: You know, it's been cultivated for thousands of years. 31 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: It's seeds have produced mustard as for a condiment for 32 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: an oil, so of course we have to talk about mustard. 33 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 3: I love yellow mustard. 34 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: I'm actually not a fan of Djon mustard unless it's 35 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: in a vinagrette. 36 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my gosh, I love I probably have more mustards. 37 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: I have a ton of different kinds of mustards, a 38 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: ton of different kinds of salts, and a ton of 39 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: different kinds of vinegars. 40 00:01:58,120 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 3: We have spoken about this. 41 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: Coming back to me now about your mustard cabinet. What 42 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: do you mean, what does that mean? What does that 43 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: look like? 44 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 2: The mustard well in refrigerator, I have whole green mustard, Dijon, 45 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 2: different kinds of Dijon mustards. I have, of course, yellow mustard. 46 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: I have Deli mustard. I just love it. I just 47 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: use it for different things, for sandwiches, for salad dressings, 48 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: for marinades. It's so versatile and it just gives everything 49 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: a pop. 50 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: Is it your favorite condiment, probably because you don't like mayonnaise. 51 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 3: No, I don't like mayonnaise. I hate mayonnaise. So see 52 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 3: I use I'm team mayonnaise. Oh use mayonnaise on everything. 53 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 54 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, another thing we disagree about. But I will say 55 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: when I was in Djon. I was in Djon and 56 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: people think they're known for Djon mustard, which they are, 57 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: but they're known for mustard. They make all all kinds 58 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: of mustards there, and so it was fascinating because I 59 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: was in the field and the harvest was happening of 60 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: that wow seeds, and you know, when you see it 61 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: and look at it and the whole history of it 62 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: is pretty pretty amazing, I mean fascinating to me. 63 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. But you know, like if I'm eating a. 64 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: Hot dog, I like mustard, not ketchup, And my husband 65 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: likes ketchup. 66 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 3: He doesn't use mustard, which is weird. I use both. 67 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 3: Oh you use both. 68 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: See. 69 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 3: You know here's another thing. 70 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: Waterburger mustard and ketchup are the best in the world. 71 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: Like if I could have the water Burger mustard on everything, 72 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: then I would probably be a bigger mustard fan. 73 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 3: What is it about Waterburger? 74 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: Waterburger for those that don't know is like the best 75 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: burger place in Texas. 76 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,839 Speaker 3: It was born in Corpus Christi dix Is, by the way. 77 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 3: I didn't love that. 78 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: The headquarters were an corpus uh. And they have spicy ketchup, 79 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: which I buy. My mom buys me and sends it 80 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: when she comes to visit in La. She brings me 81 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: spicy Ketchup. You've never had Waterburger spicy ketchup. Of course, 82 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: I've had Waterburger. It's the best. I mean, it's way 83 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: better than in and Out, I think, but I don't. 84 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 2: I'm way better picture. I can't picture their mustard the 85 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: their ketchup. But their mustard is really I mean it's 86 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 2: really tangy. It's like it hits you right here. 87 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 3: In the and the jaw. 88 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 2: Oh okay, I need to go when I go back 89 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: to Texas, I'm going to go and taste it. But 90 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 2: They're mustard is very distinct, right, It's a yellow mustard, 91 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: but it's I don't know what they do with it, 92 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 2: but it's it's definitely it has it has a pup. 93 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 3: I get to the bottom of it. Potato salad cannot 94 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 3: survive without mustard and a vinaigrette. You have to put 95 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 3: a little bit of mustard in a vinaigrette. 96 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: You'd put djon. You can't put yellow mustard in a 97 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: no djon mustard, Okay. Mustard is one of the first 98 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: domesticated crops, meaning we learned how to cultivate it. 99 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 3: When was that? 100 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: How long ago? Was that? 101 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: Thousands of Like everything is like thousands of years ago. 102 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 2: So the mustard family consists of about thirty six hundred 103 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: different species. 104 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: Most of them are wild and they're related. 105 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: They're in the cabbage f family, so they're related to 106 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 2: kale and collared greens, but only three of them make mustard. 107 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: And again it's been domesticated for thousands of years, and 108 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 2: they come from different parts of the world. So the 109 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: white or yellow mustard is native to the Mediterranean, like 110 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: the mediterrane basin like North Africa and Europe, and then 111 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 2: the brown mustard native to India, Nepal and parts of 112 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 2: South Asia. And then the black mustard is also native 113 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 2: to the Mediterranean and to the Middle East. And so 114 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 2: through ancient trade routes, these mustards, these these three different 115 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: types of mustard plants that make seeds became a staple 116 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 2: all over Europe, in Asia, and eventually in the Americas. 117 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: What do your mean three thousand, six hundreds, that's that's 118 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: a lot. Like I told you, in Dijon, they make 119 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: all mustard, and there were so many different kinds, and 120 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I thought you only made Dijon 121 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: mustard Indijon, So did I? 122 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 3: Actually I didn't. We make think about it. 123 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: They make every They make all of it, white, yellow, brown, black, 124 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: all of it. So let's talk about how mustard is made, 125 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: because it's a simple process. It's just you know, you 126 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: have to soak the seeds overnight in a blend of 127 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: vinegar and water, and then you grind them into a 128 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: paste and you can add salt or flavorings like tumeric 129 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: or garlic. Some people add honey, and then you have 130 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: to let it rest before enjoying it. And you know, 131 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: there's all these different flavor profiles of the three main mustards, 132 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: which is white slash yellow mustard, which is weird because 133 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: I had never seen white mustard. But like white white 134 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: yellow mustard, which is the mildest, it's a little bitter, 135 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: a hint of sweetness. That's probably the one that Americans 136 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: are most familiar with, right. 137 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's the white yellow mustard. It's the seeds 138 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 4: are white or yellowish. 139 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 3: Oh, the seeds are white or yellow, okay. 140 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: And then the brown mustard seeds created like a spicier pepper, 141 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: peppery bite. 142 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 3: That's one that's really. 143 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: Common in Dijon and also in Indian It's in many 144 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: Indian pickles and curries. 145 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 3: Is the brown mustard. 146 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: And then the black mustard, which I've never seen or tasted, 147 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: have you black mustard? 148 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 3: Actually no, I haven't. 149 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: I was just gonna say I've tasted the black mustard 150 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: seeds and like India when I've made like Indian food. 151 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 4: But now that you said that, no, it's not the black, 152 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 4: it's the brown. But it's like it's super intense. 153 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very intense, pungent. It's almost like was sabi. 154 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: And it's usually used in South Asian cooking, some European recipes, 155 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: but mostly South Asian cookies. 156 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 3: So are the people that first cultivated mustard. 157 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: The cultivation of its super ancient mustard seeds have been 158 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 2: found in archaeological contexts dating back, you know, thousands of 159 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: years in ancient India and summer in Egypt, and mustard 160 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they 161 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. 162 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: They were thought to have medicinal and protective properties and 163 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: like ward off the evil eyes and all of the 164 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 2: things that you would need in this life and also 165 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: and then the afterlife. But then moving forward, like the 166 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: ancient Greeks and Romans used it for flavor and also 167 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 2: for health benefits. And there's this diascord, he said Turkish 168 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: born Greek physician. He wrote an early treatise on medicine, 169 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: and he wrote about the use of mustard as a treatment. 170 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 2: He would make these like compresses like poultices with mustard 171 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: seeds and use them for like for aches and pains, 172 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 2: to clear sinuses, and this kind of became a standard, 173 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 2: and you know, for thousands of years, healers would have 174 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: mustard in their bag of cures. Ancient Chinese used to 175 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 2: use mustard seeds for digestive purposes. And it wasn't until 176 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 2: the Romans that we start seeing the word mustard. 177 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, because in France it's muda that it's mod mutad, 178 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: And so I was like, oh, did it mustard come 179 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: from mutad or where did the word mustard come from. 180 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 3: It actually comes from Latin. 181 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: It has Latin roots because the Romans used to mix 182 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 2: crushed mustard seeds with unfermented grape juice, and this unfermented 183 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 2: grape cheese was called must and so they would create 184 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 2: this spicy paste and it was like a burning must 185 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 2: So the words mustard and the French mutard come from 186 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 2: this mustem ardens, which is the Latin for this sort 187 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 2: of burning must. So basically the Romans were making mustard, 188 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 2: and that's where the word comes from. 189 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 3: So it comes from the Roman. 190 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: So the Romans introduced mustard plants into what is now 191 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 2: France and England, and they gave rise to the fame 192 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: de jon mustard that they've been manufacturing there since the 193 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 2: thirteenth century. 194 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 3: Wow at least. 195 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: So, I mean, spices were huge in the Middle Ages 196 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: in Europe. I mean we talk a lot about this 197 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: in other episodes. And how you know, spices were so 198 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: big because food could not be conserved right like food 199 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: went bad. And then if food were bad, they would 200 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: just like put all these spices to make it taste 201 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: better or also to salt meat right to salt. So 202 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: so many spices available in the Middle Ages was mustard. 203 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 3: Having a moment in the Middle Ages. 204 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 2: It was and it was a plant, so it was 205 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: one of the few spices that was readily available, you know, everywhere, 206 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 2: and they loved mustard so much during the Middle Ages 207 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 2: that they created this position of the mutardier. I want 208 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 2: to be a mutardier, right, it's so specific. So it's 209 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: a crafts person, a merchant that specialized in making and 210 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 2: selling mustard. So this was a job that was created 211 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 2: during the Middle Ages. 212 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: You know that the pope had their own mutadiers. The 213 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: French monasteries of course, especially around France and Djon, they 214 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: became famous for cultivating mustard, not only as a culinary 215 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: delight and medicine. They had guild similar to bakers and 216 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: butchers at this time, with regulations and standards for quality 217 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: and ingredients and hygiene, right yeah. 218 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the mutardier they selected, they ground their they 219 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 2: mixed mustard seeds with you know, wine and vinegar to 220 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: create these mustard plants and they sold them fresh. 221 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 4: They sold mustard fresh like a you know, cheese or 222 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 4: a butter cellar. 223 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 2: And then sometimes in some towns mutardier were household specialists 224 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 2: and they would you know, work with noble or wealthy kitchen, 225 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 2: so they were kind of like a like sauce makers. 226 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 3: And by the. 227 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: Fourteenth century Dijon was the epicenter of fine mustard making, 228 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 2: and Dejeon became known for their incredible mustards. Even Louis 229 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 2: the fourteenth was one of mustard's biggest admirers. During his 230 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 2: reign in seventeenth century, he granted an edict around Dijon 231 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: as the sole maker of authentic Dijon mustard, and he 232 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 2: of course had his own mutardier and there was always 233 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 2: mustard prepared by his own guy at every table. 234 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: Did it become commercial in the fourteenth century because of 235 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: this appellation that let Louis the fourteenth gave them, or. 236 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,839 Speaker 2: It had already become more of the commercial center by 237 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 2: the fourteenth century. And so there are different brands. The 238 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 2: one male how do you say, m I Mail antoine 239 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 2: Claude Mail. He opened up a small mustard chop and 240 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 2: he became wow like his reputation for like making this 241 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 2: incredible mustard, and he became popular among the French court 242 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 2: and kind of help put Dijon mustard on the map 243 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 2: in France and beyond. 244 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: And he was the first one to bottle mustard in 245 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: glass jars rather than selling it in bulk, which was 246 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: super revolutionary. 247 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 3: It was super revolute. 248 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 2: Now we wouldn't we don't even think about it, right, 249 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 2: but it is super revolutionary. 250 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: Well, I'm like when you talked about like they would 251 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: just serve it fresh, I'm like, how they would serve 252 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: it fresh? Howe? Why we wouldn't it be in a 253 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: glass jar? But that came so much later, that's amazing. 254 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: So this Mayel he became the supplier to the French court, 255 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 1: and then he became a household name in France. 256 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 2: And beyond because of his mustard. Dijon mustard gained this 257 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 2: reputation for being the finest mustard in France, and then 258 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: you know, eventually it became a global brand. 259 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: The one the global brand that I know, which I 260 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: think everybody knows is great popon? 261 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 3: Now is that from Dijon? Is that from Dijon? It is? 262 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 3: It is? 263 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 4: I remember those commercials from the eighties. 264 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 3: I love do those commercials the best? 265 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: The best? So this was these nineteen eighties commercials. Two 266 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 2: Rose Royces pull up side by side and he's like. 267 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, pardon man, do you have any great poupon? 268 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I associate Dijon mustard as like a delicacy, 269 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: sophistic hated form of like yellow Frenches mustard, you know 270 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: what I mean, Like I really. 271 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 5: Am because of this commercial. Because of this commercial. Yes, 272 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 5: it was a very very effective ad campaign. It's the 273 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 5: first Dijon mustard I ever tasted, of course. So it 274 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 5: was founded in seventeen seventy seven by Maurice Gray and 275 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 5: Auguste Poupon. 276 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 2: Maurice Gray was an inventor who developed this machine that 277 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 2: could grind the mustard seeds into really fine paste, and 278 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 2: he partnered with Aguste Poopon, who was a banker and. 279 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 3: Green that's a great white one, so that Poupon was 280 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 3: just a banker. 281 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: It was Gray who had the machine. 282 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 3: Gray was the guy. Gray was the guy. 283 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 2: Well. 284 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: They also their recipe used white wine instead of vinegar, 285 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: and so that gave Dijon mustard this like signature smoothness 286 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: and like a little bit of tang. And I distinctly 287 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: remember tasting Gray poupon for the first time and I 288 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: was like, I didn't like it, but I did think like, ooh, 289 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: that's different. 290 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 4: Because it's like when you're a kid it's like, well, 291 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 4: this is a little too strong. 292 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 2: And it was brought to the US in the nineteen forties, 293 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: and in the nineteen eighties it became this phenomenon when 294 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 2: Craft Foods bought it and launched this super memorable ad campaign. 295 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: So when did mustard arrive in Latin America and Mexico. 296 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: The seeds were brought in the fifteen hundreds, right the 297 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: Spaniards bus to musters plants, and they used it as 298 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 2: a spice and as a medicine, just like they had 299 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 2: been in Europe. 300 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 3: And then in the late eighteen hundreds, during the. 301 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 2: Portfiitiato, Mexico City's elite was sort of fell head over 302 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 2: heels with French cuisine and we started seeing jon mustard 303 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 2: gray seeing banquet tables. But it was in the twentieth century, 304 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: especially along the US border, like in states like Sonarda, 305 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 2: i'm Bacha and Tamauripas, American yellow mustard jumped from the 306 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 2: American ballpark hot dog to the sonda on hot dogs 307 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: and tortas and elotes. And even before that, actually you 308 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: see the mustard seeds in traditional pickled halapang. So it's 309 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 2: this condiment that has crossed oceans and galleons, and you know, 310 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 2: dined with the leads, and now we see it on 311 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 2: our street foods. You know, even nelote has a little 312 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 2: bit of mustard just to give it a little bit 313 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: of pop. 314 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: Well, it's not used in our cuisine very much. 315 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: More like in tortas and stuff and the street hot 316 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 2: dogs and stuff like that. 317 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 4: But yeah, not a lot, not a lot. 318 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 2: But there's some companies like Costagna makes a mustard, make 319 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 2: some there's some companies that make their own mustard, but 320 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 2: it's much milder, even than. 321 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 3: American yellow mustard. 322 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 2: But what I think is so interesting that most mustard 323 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 2: seeds all over the world, most mustard seeds comes from Canada. 324 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: They produce ighty percent of mustard seed experts, even Maela 325 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 2: and Gray Poo Pond have been using Canadian grown seeds 326 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 2: for decades. 327 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 3: What I know they have. But that's like Mexico. I mean, 328 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 3: that's like vanilla. 329 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: It all comes from Madagascar, not Mexico. 330 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 3: And so, but who consumes the most mustard in the world. 331 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 3: I think France. 332 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, France is the largest consumer of mustard. 333 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 3: Wow. 334 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 2: So when we come back, how many types of mustards 335 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 2: can you name? 336 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 3: I'm putting eve it to the test. 337 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: After the break, none, I can name two. 338 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 3: We're going to do a quiz many shades of mustard, 339 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 3: all right. 340 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 2: So it's gonna be multiple choice. Because I was looking 341 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 2: at R and I was like, this is so hard. 342 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: So which mustard made its debut at the nineteen oh 343 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: four Saint Louis World's Fairest Cream Salad? 344 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 3: Mustard? Oh, cream salad? What does that mean? Cream salad? 345 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 3: That's how they marketed it. I'll give you. I'm gonna 346 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 3: give you three choices. Okay, go ahead, go ahead, give me. 347 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 2: Graye Houpon, Dijon mustard. French is yellow mustard? Are kernel mustard? 348 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 2: What year did you say? 349 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 4: Nineteen oh four at the Saint Louis Ville was in Vijon. 350 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: Because it didn't come till nineteen forty. I was paying attention. 351 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 3: You were paying attention. Say French is yellow. 352 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: Yes, French is yellow mustard. 353 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it right, Oh my god, it right. Definitely 354 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 3: not Colonel Mustard either. He was from Clue, so it 355 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 3: was from Clue. 356 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: I was like, he had a mustard. I had a mustard. 357 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: French is yellow mustard, created by George and Francis French, 358 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 2: two brothers and they introduced it as cream salad mustard. 359 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 2: At the time, cream you know, salads were basically everything 360 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 2: from it was like a cold it could be like 361 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 2: dainty tea sandwiches. But they introduced a mild, tangy, turmeric, 362 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 2: bright yellow mustard that was perfect for hot dogs that 363 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: were also gaining popularity at the time. 364 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 3: Okay, can you. 365 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 2: Name the mustard granted a royal warrant by Queen Victory 366 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 2: Corry in eighteen sixty six A mister mustard worth b 367 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 2: Sir Kensington's mustard See Coleman's English Mustard. 368 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 3: Coleman's English Mustard, Coleman's English Mustard. Yeah, oh, God of God, 369 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 3: and the other ones do exist. I didn't make them up. Oh, 370 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 3: I was like, the other one sound fake. 371 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 2: Mister Mustards was is fake. But the other one I did, 372 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 2: Oh that counted, Fae Kensington does exist. Yeah, so Coleman's 373 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 2: it was. The British mustard industry arose in Tewksbury in 374 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 2: the sixteenth century, and mustards from that area became knowns 375 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 2: for its strength, and in seventeen twenty a woman named 376 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 2: Missus Clements of Tewksbury discovered how to make how to 377 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 2: dried mustard seeds enough to form a powder, and in 378 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 2: eighteen fourteen this man named Jeremiah Coleman he perfected a 379 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 2: blend of brown and white mustard seeds, grunting to a 380 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 2: fine powder that was mild with super spicy when mixed 381 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 2: with water. It became a Victorian kitchen staple, and Queen 382 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 2: Victoria said. 383 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 4: This is fit for a royal household. Okay, which mustard got? 384 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 2: It started in the US thanks to German and Jewish 385 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 2: immigrants in the late eighteen hundreds. Golden spicy brown mustard, 386 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 2: Ingelhoff for mustard and Zadi's deli gold. 387 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 3: I would say the first one, golden spicy mustard. 388 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 5: You got them all, Oh my god, you got them mustard. 389 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a deli stable. Immigrants brought their mustard making 390 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 3: traditions with. 391 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 2: Them, and this is this really coarsely ground brown mustard 392 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: speeds that's really, you know, spicier than its yellow counterpart. 393 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 2: And sometimes it has horse reddish. So it's used in 394 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 2: pastrami and roast beef sandwiches. I love this my on 395 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 2: my sandwiches. 396 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: So I think mustard is as iconic as ketchup. I 397 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: think you can't say ketchup without mustard. But how did 398 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: it make its way into American pop culture? Obviously hot 399 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: dogs had something to do with it. But like, who 400 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: introduced mustard to like the nation of the US. 401 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, so Ben Franklin, he helped introduce mustard to this 402 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 2: young nation. 403 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 4: Benjamin when the Benjamin Franklin, the Benjamin Franklin when he 404 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 4: was a French ambassador, yep, and he loved classic French 405 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 4: mustards when he was there. 406 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 3: He praised them in letters. 407 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 4: He wrote so many letters praising them. 408 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 409 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 2: He brought mustard seeds with him back in the US, 410 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 2: and he's credited with helping start America's first mustard mills 411 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 2: and igniting the country's taste for mustard. And then when 412 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 2: Thomas Jefferson served as minister to France after him, among 413 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 2: the foods he brought back in those eighty six crates 414 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 2: was prepared mustard from dj On And so he and 415 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 2: George Washington grew mustards, you know, in Monticello and at 416 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 2: Mount Vernon, and they experimented with making mustard prepared mustards. 417 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 3: And today mustard is everywhere. It's globally diverse. 418 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 2: We have super spicy Chinese mustard you know, you go 419 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,719 Speaker 2: to Chinese Russiant that's super hot mustard, and then our 420 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 2: mild American one, the grainy hold seed. I love the 421 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 2: grainy whole seed mustard on salmon. 422 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: Oh well, I'm glad we did the mustard episode because 423 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: you don't like mayonnaise, so I feel this was appropriate. 424 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 2: I think this little teeny weeny seed tells a very 425 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 2: interesting story and it packs a punch. 426 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 3: It packs a tangy punch. Thanks everybody for listening. 427 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 4: Bye. 428 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: Hungry for History is a Hyphenet Media production in partnership 429 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: with Iheart's Michael Pura podcast network. 430 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 2: For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, 431 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 2: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.