1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. We do want to 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: stick with energy twenty eight Democratic California lawmakers writing a 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: letter to the Trump administration condemning plans to boost oil 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: drilling along the state's coastline. US Interior Secretary Doug Bergham 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: joins US now Secretary Burgram, thank you so much for 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: being with us. I want to start with just how 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: important it is right now for the United States to 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: increase energy supplies across the board, not just with drilling, 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: but across the board the face of the demand coming 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: from AI. 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: Well, good morning, Lisa. 12 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 3: Yes, it's absolutely essential, and this is part of the 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 3: just announced National Security Plan that the White House has released. 14 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 3: That Security plan mentions energy twenty three times. There's an 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 3: entire section about energy dominance, and folks should think about 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 3: energy dominance as the ability for the US to sell 17 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 3: energy to our friends and allies so they don't have 18 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 3: to buy it from adversary. Is particularly those adversaries that 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 3: are either funding terrorism or are funding wars, actively funding 20 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 3: war machines, and so it's core to the strategy right now. 21 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 3: But it's also, as you've talked about on the show, 22 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 3: is about with AI because never before in a history 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 3: have we been able to convert a kill a lot 24 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 3: of electricity into intelligence. The demand for that, regardless of 25 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 3: stock prices or stock movements, the demand for AI for 26 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 3: intelligence applied to every job, every company, every industry is 27 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 3: going to continue to increase the demand for electricity around 28 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 3: the world. The US as an energy dominant country, now 29 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 3: the largest oil producer in the world, largest LNG exporter 30 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 3: in the world, and growing quickly with that strategy. It 31 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 3: bodes well for the future of the US, both in 32 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: terms of peace and in terms of prosperity. 33 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 4: Secretaire, I'm sure you're aware WTI is under sixty dollars 34 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 4: a barrel. What's the impetus for the oil and gas 35 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 4: companies in the United States to continue drilling wells at 36 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 4: this price level, which potentially could be a loss for them. 37 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 3: Well, I think one thing that we know that in 38 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 3: Trump administration, we're cutting red tape so rapidly. We think that, 39 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 3: you know, one of the early targets we had was 40 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 3: cut ten percent of the cost away from those producers 41 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 3: just by cutting red tape. So if you think about, 42 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 3: you know, sixty bucks a day might be what sixty 43 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 3: seven bucks was a year ago because of our ability 44 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 3: to take cost out. 45 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 2: For those producers. 46 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 3: And there's example after example, whether it's from the EPA, 47 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 3: the Department of Energy, Department of Interior, where we've been 48 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 3: able to help reduce costs. And of course this industry 49 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 3: has been better than almost any in terms of gaining 50 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 3: you know, productivity. The shale producers now drilling three mile 51 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 3: laterals instead of two mile laterals, up to four mile 52 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 3: laterals in many places offshore. We've seen examples overseas of 53 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 3: people driving building ten mile laterals when they're getting after 54 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 3: the shale rock, all with the same small well pad 55 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 3: on the surface. So, you know, great for great for 56 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 3: land management, and great for energy production. 57 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 2: And kudos to this industry. 58 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 3: This, the entire shale revolution has occurred through innovation, and 59 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 3: that innovation is going to continue, and with AI applied 60 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 3: to that, it's going to even get even better. So 61 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 3: I see the leading companies are getting their costs down 62 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 3: even as demand is going up. 63 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 4: But Baker Hughes is talking about drilling reactivity has fallen 64 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 4: sixteen percent since Trump took office this year. The President 65 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 4: loves to talk about drill, baby, drill. Do you expect 66 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 4: that to change those numbers to change next year. 67 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 3: Well, I think again, I have to take a look 68 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 3: at the at the numbers. When we talk about drilling activity. 69 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: In my home state of North Dakota, we had a 70 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 3: number of the well count was going down, but the 71 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 3: miles of lateral productive rock could be going up. And 72 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 3: so you know, analysts have got to make sure that 73 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 3: they're actually keeping up with how fast this industry is changing, 74 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: because we've got again record production occurring right now and 75 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 3: we expect to see records through twenty twenty six. 76 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: One area where you have seen price increases has been 77 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: natural gas. Natural gas prices rising to the highest levels 78 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: in the US going back to twenty twenty two, and 79 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: a real question on how much the US can continue 80 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: to export to places like Europe in the face of 81 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: significantly higher prices here in. 82 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: The United States. 83 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: How do you plan to sort of set policy so 84 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: that the US can be a big exporter to places 85 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: like Europe while not allowing prices to go up so 86 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: significantly in the future. 87 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 3: Well, again, the key is its supply and its infrastructure. 88 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 3: We have places in the US right now where again 89 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 3: there's not one price for gas in America. As you know, 90 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 3: I mean, even though we've got the markets and we've 91 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 3: got Henry Hub, but we've got we've got. 92 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:40,239 Speaker 2: Widely raging prices. 93 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 3: I mean even in the difference of price in Pennsylvania 94 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 3: versus in New England because the lack of natural gas 95 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 3: pipelines that have been blocked into places like New England. 96 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: And when we think about we think about markets, you're 97 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: talking about AI and the capital span and going against 98 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,679 Speaker 3: AI where we're an AI factory, where we're actually creating 99 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 3: in manufacturing intelligence, those plants are going to go to 100 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 3: the places where states have low electricity prices, and policies 101 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 3: are setting price, not just markets, and we've got policies 102 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 3: in blue states around our country. California. You mentioned California. 103 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 3: Sixty three percent of California's oil is being imported from 104 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 3: foreign countries because of blocking of pipelines coming into that state. 105 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 3: They have a record number of internal combustion cars in California. 106 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 3: They have more internal combustion cars than any other state 107 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 3: as cars. And yet two refineries have announced that they're 108 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 3: shutting down in California because of policies, not because of 109 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 3: lack of demand, not because of lack of consumers, and 110 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 3: so what's. 111 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: Going to happen. 112 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 3: You're going to have oil tankers and refined products coming 113 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 3: into San Francisco Bay and coming into Long Beach and 114 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 3: record numbers in California because of policies, they will have 115 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 3: higher gas prices than virtually any other state. So again, 116 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 3: we have a strategy in America to help every state. 117 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 3: The Trump administration wants to have low affordable energy prices 118 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 3: for everybody, whether it's heating your home or driving your car, 119 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 3: or producing electricity for AI. 120 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: But we're going to need the collaboration from states to 121 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 2: make sure. 122 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 3: And if states don't want to collaborate on that, then 123 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 3: you're going to see this trillion dollars at AI, a 124 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 3: historic amount of spend, all going towards states that have 125 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 3: pro energy policies that drive down prices. 126 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 4: Secretary, we've seen a significant increase in energy costs, especially 127 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 4: for individuals who live near data centers. How is the 128 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 4: US going to do both at once, both support these 129 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 4: AI inities but also make sure consumers energy prices remain affordable. 130 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 3: Well, if you said on the show, I mean these 131 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 3: prices are in electricity are local, not national. And so 132 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 3: there are the examples that you think we're driving that 133 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 3: analysis right now and we're going to be publishing that 134 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 3: from the White House to the National Energy Dominance Council, 135 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 3: the Department of Energy doing great work on that. But 136 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 3: a lot of the higher prices that you're seeing are 137 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 3: not related to the AI data centers. A lot of 138 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 3: the day A data centers are going to be off 139 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 3: the grid, behind the meter and then producing adding more energy, 140 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 3: and then and putting some of that energy onto the grid. 141 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: So we could be actually increasing. 142 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 3: The supply in some of those areas where we've got 143 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 3: increased pricing, it's because of the policies they pursued the 144 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: last five years of having unreliable, intermittent and highly subsidized 145 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 3: and projects, including things like offshore wind where people were 146 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 3: spending eleven billion dollars to create one gigawatt of intermittent 147 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 3: you know, versus spending one or two billion dollars to 148 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,239 Speaker 3: create one gigawat of assured seven by twenty four hour power. 149 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 3: So the policy choices of the last five years, driven 150 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 3: by sometimes climate extremists, were the ones that were that 151 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 3: were that are. 152 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: Driving up the prices that you're seeing. 153 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 3: I mean, electricity costs three times as much in New 154 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 3: England as it does in North Dakota. That is not 155 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 3: that is not because of data centers. That's because of policies. 156 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: US Interior Secretary Doug Brogham, thank you so much.