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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Steffone

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Speaker 1: Never Told your production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome to another edition of the minist Around the World.

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Speaker 2: I'm just gonna go ahead and let you all see

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Speaker 2: behind the curtains a bit. It's been a rough several

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Speaker 2: days due to some things that has happened in my family,

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Speaker 2: which I'm going to talk about for the Happy Hour.

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Speaker 2: So if y'all stay tuned this week or whenever y'all

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Speaker 2: want to do this, you may understand why. But so

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Speaker 2: with that, I'm kind of cheating on this one, Annie,

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Speaker 2: because I've been kind of in a brain fog. I

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Speaker 2: actually did choose a specific person that I was going

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Speaker 2: to come to, but I've just been, you know, in

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Speaker 2: that level of like chaos emotional state. Also, just like

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Speaker 2: for me, when I get into a specific place where

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Speaker 2: it's sadness and depression and like emergency situations, I go blank.

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Speaker 2: I am the freeze, but it looks like I'm being stoic.

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Speaker 2: So it's like I don't necessarily cry, but I don't

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Speaker 2: emote well. My tone of voice goes down and octave,

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Speaker 2: which has always been funny to me, like why do

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Speaker 2: I do that? And I think you can hear that

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Speaker 2: a little bit now.

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Speaker 3: But with that, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Doing a little cheating with this episode specifically because I

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Speaker 2: wanted it to come back and talk about the four

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Speaker 2: Be movement, which is the South Korean feminist movement that

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Speaker 2: we talked about previously on an episode. In the feminist

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Speaker 2: movement in South Korea, because I've seen a lot of

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Speaker 2: things that's popping up on tiktoget is really like rearing up,

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Speaker 2: especially in the US, about what this movement is and

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Speaker 2: how indicative it is to everyone, all women essentially in

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Speaker 2: all people marginalized communities when it comes to finding the patriarchy,

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Speaker 2: and it's kind of gogotten its own type of legend

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Speaker 2: behind it because as we I think said previously, it's

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Speaker 2: actually a small sect when it comes to what's happening

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Speaker 2: in South Korea. Not a lot of people in South

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Speaker 2: Korea are talking about it, and that's kind of one

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Speaker 2: of the big things that TikTok creators have been talking about.

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Speaker 2: Who are Asian or know a little more about this,

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Speaker 2: they will tell you immediately it's not as big as

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Speaker 2: you think it is.

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Speaker 3: A b there's.

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Speaker 2: A lot of problems within this movement that you have

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Speaker 2: to consider, and I want to take time to talk

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Speaker 2: about that part because we also talked about the declining

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Speaker 2: birth rate, which is like South Korea has the lowest

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Speaker 2: birth rate at this point in time and continues to

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Speaker 2: go lower. And we did talk about the fact that, yes,

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Speaker 2: a part of this is because of the patriarchy and

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Speaker 2: sexism within South Korea, but also another big part of

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Speaker 2: that is because it's unaffordable and unattainable to have children

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Speaker 2: and live a life that is not impoverished essentially, and honestly,

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Speaker 2: like I want to link that to my own conversations

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Speaker 2: about adoption and why adoption even started in South Korea

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Speaker 2: and why it became such a big movement in South Korea,

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Speaker 2: and how all these children were just pretty much exported

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Speaker 2: out because they were a product. But this is that

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Speaker 2: same level of conversation. It never really has helped at all,

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Speaker 2: and then the people who are responsible for child bearing

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Speaker 2: and child bearing are not helped in any way. So

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Speaker 2: that's part of the big reason. But when we talked

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Speaker 2: about the four bing movement, we're talking about you know

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Speaker 2: the four nos, which is no sex, no marriage, no relationships,

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Speaker 2: no child bearing, all of that. So with that, which

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Speaker 2: sounds like a great idea. But one of the conversations

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Speaker 2: that have been happening within TikTok community, within feminist community

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Speaker 2: is the fact that when it comes to the trans

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Speaker 2: community in South Korea, they are not welcomed as in fact,

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Speaker 2: there has been accusations that this depth of radical feminists

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Speaker 2: that have happened within South Korea are pretty much turfs,

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Speaker 2: and that's exactly who they are. There is a group

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Speaker 2: of radical femin is called the Womed, which is like

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Speaker 2: putting women in nomad together who have been accused of

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Speaker 2: a lot of things that I'm not sure exactly everything.

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Speaker 2: Everything is kind of like heresaye for me, because as

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Speaker 2: I was researching Annie, there's not much conversation about turfs

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Speaker 2: within South Korea other than yeah, obviously they're there, like

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Speaker 2: that's kind of it. But there was a conversation about

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Speaker 2: how apparently there has been they will go out fully

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Speaker 2: testing people to make sure they are quote unquote biologically

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Speaker 2: women and we I hate that term. Please don't think

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Speaker 2: that I'm trying to say that. I'm just saying this

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Speaker 2: is what they are measuring in a very turf speak,

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Speaker 2: that they are born with a vagina essentially and that

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Speaker 2: they identify as women in that level biologically, and that

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Speaker 2: they will test whether they have an Adam's apple, they

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Speaker 2: have this like birth certificate, like all these things. They

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Speaker 2: go to the extreme to make sure that they are

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Speaker 2: not trans and in that level, accusing them of being infiltrated.

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Speaker 2: So take what like again, take this with like a

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Speaker 2: little bit of what I've been reading and what I've

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Speaker 2: been seen trying to really kind of uncover to the

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Speaker 2: level like take what JK. Rowling wants to do and

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Speaker 2: then times it by five and actually happening in these small,

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Speaker 2: very small sects that have existed in South Korea.

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Speaker 3: And again this is also that same conversation.

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Speaker 2: That they are very very very anti gay when it

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Speaker 2: comes to men, so they do not want anything to

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Speaker 2: do with gay men either and are very like offensive

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Speaker 2: in every way, to the point that one group of

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Speaker 2: feminists were like, hey, this is bad. Stop using these

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Speaker 2: derogatory terms towards gay men. And they're like, now we

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Speaker 2: want to We're going to We're going to keep doing

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Speaker 2: it because they are not one of us, essentially, And

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Speaker 2: this is that conversation we've had repeatedly where history repeats itself,

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Speaker 2: and maybe because when it comes to South Korea because

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Speaker 2: we've seen them as kind of a monolithe of one,

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Speaker 2: one specific group of people that haven't had too much

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Speaker 2: diversity up until recently, and they want more diversity because

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Speaker 2: they want that money, but they don't want to change

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Speaker 2: their own backwards ideas. And again, oh my god, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna offend so much to the South Korean people and

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Speaker 2: communities and to my Asian peoples. I'm not saying this

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Speaker 2: is everyone. I am not saying that every South Korean

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Speaker 2: person is like this. I'm not saying every Asian person

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Speaker 2: is like this. Obviously I would hope that because as

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Speaker 2: a South Korean person myself, that would be awful.

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Speaker 3: But we can't deny this does exist.

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Speaker 2: So I'm talking about it as a whole in general,

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Speaker 2: as in, like, this is happening there, we have to

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Speaker 2: acknowledge it happening.

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Speaker 3: We can't look at one thing and neglect the other side.

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Speaker 2: Because what it comes down to is the lack of intersectionality,

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Speaker 2: which has been a lesson that we have learned repeatedly,

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Speaker 2: and knowing that this is important for any movement, for

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Speaker 2: any type of equality or equity to happen, intersectionality has

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Speaker 2: to be in this conversation. This is why so many

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Speaker 2: things have failed within our own system in the US.

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Speaker 3: We know this.

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Speaker 2: We know that when we were talking about the rights

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Speaker 2: to vote, women's rights to vote, they did not give

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Speaker 2: about people of color, specifically about black women. And to

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Speaker 2: this day it's still that conversation when it comes to

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Speaker 2: equitability and who gets what and why, there's a hierarchy

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Speaker 2: within feminism and within women's ranking or within those people

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Speaker 2: who are marginalized. So I say that as an overall

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Speaker 2: caveat to know not all South Korean people feel this way,

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Speaker 2: as in fact, the people that I have been looking

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Speaker 2: at or watching or seeing TikTok creators who are South

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Speaker 2: Korean are in the same conversation as I am.

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Speaker 3: I'm in.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I've got a good ranking of people

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Speaker 2: who are like, Okay, great, these are my people. My

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Speaker 2: FYP is working for me. Wonderful in that we think

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Speaker 2: that this conversation to be had, this idealized version of

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Speaker 2: the four P movement, is wonderful in that like, yes,

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Speaker 2: we want to have a call to equality and to

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Speaker 2: build a better system for not only women, but every

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Speaker 2: marginalized person ever, and that this is part of the change.

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Speaker 2: So it's interesting to see and have this conversation about

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Speaker 2: what this looks like because again, like there's that small

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Speaker 2: group of people that came through and was like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we want rights, but we need to start with only us.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of that that's not gonna work for you, boo.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna kill this movement. It's gonna kill it in

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Speaker 2: every way. But if we can do a sustainable level

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Speaker 2: of growth in understanding that, this is a good, great start,

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Speaker 2: but now you need to look at the bigger picture.

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Speaker 2: And that's again that whole like conversation when it comes

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Speaker 2: to movements like the Fourbe movement. For those who are

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Speaker 2: talking about and celebrating it, there's parts of a week. Again,

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Speaker 2: I think it's great to celebrate. I'm like, yes, stick

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Speaker 2: it to the man literally, but but we have to

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Speaker 2: look into what is behind the scenes and yeah, where

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Speaker 2: it's coming from, and what they think it is their

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Speaker 2: change impacting that community. And from what I gather, obviously

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Speaker 2: the birth rates are not great and the Korean government

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Speaker 2: isn't panic I've seen recently.

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Speaker 3: Again my TikTok feed.

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Speaker 2: Is hilarious, but a lot of Korean celebrities specifically men

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Speaker 2: trying to encourage people to have babies, like as a

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Speaker 2: side note, as if like you know, when you have

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Speaker 2: a go like a movie like go Dogs, or like

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Speaker 2: when you like are a fan of something, you just

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Speaker 2: run in there the braves or something like randomly move on.

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Speaker 2: But that's what I'm saying celebrities and have children, Like

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Speaker 2: it's like, wow, they're really desperate in this conversation and

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Speaker 2: trying to get like people to have more and more children.

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Speaker 2: Of course, the bigger conversation about like who is providing

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Speaker 2: what and what is being said, and we talked about

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Speaker 2: this again with the birth rate episode, that they're just

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Speaker 2: putting small band aids and not looking at the bigger picture,

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Speaker 2: which is a fault for both sides.

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Speaker 3: And when I say both sides, for those who.

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Speaker 2: In the government who are like, oh, women are the problem,

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Speaker 2: but you know here you go, let.

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Speaker 3: Me help you with daycare. That's it.

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Speaker 2: As where feminists are like, all right, we're gonna stop

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Speaker 2: having children, We're gonna stop getting with men.

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Speaker 3: And I do know one.

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Speaker 2: Specific founder of this movement or at least like a

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Speaker 2: spokesperson for the movements like just you know, merry women.

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Speaker 3: But it's like, yeah, let's do that.

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Speaker 2: That makes sense again, but they leave out so many

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Speaker 2: more people and so many others, And again knowing that

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Speaker 2: movements like this radical movements like this, and I use

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Speaker 2: the word radical, which it feels like a double edged

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Speaker 2: sword because it's used as a negative in so many

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Speaker 2: ways too. Because when I saw radical feminists, it didn't

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Speaker 2: hit me in my thought process of being like, oh,

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Speaker 2: there turfs, even though that's in the name right in

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Speaker 2: my ideals when it came to South Korea, because feminism

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Speaker 2: was so not new necessarily but becoming kind of growing

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Speaker 2: in the last ten years and has fluctuated much like

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Speaker 2: everywhere else that I was hoping that I don't know,

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Speaker 2: like it didn't include turfs.

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Speaker 3: But I should have known better because.

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Speaker 2: We also know that the queer community in places like

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Speaker 2: South Korea are not widely accepted. It's still taboo. Is

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Speaker 2: still one of those things that you should be a secret.

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Speaker 2: They're not gonna outright like crucify you. I guess it's

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Speaker 2: a better way to say, although I'm not necessarily true

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Speaker 2: that they do. They people get are in violent situations

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Speaker 2: and get a used and are taking advantage by the

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Speaker 2: system because they're queer, but.

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Speaker 3: Knowing that they are just like, shit, no, it's not

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Speaker 3: that bad here.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of the same thing where they say, no, no,

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Speaker 2: there's no racism in South Korea.

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Speaker 3: What are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: What?

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, and then you're like, no, you are

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Speaker 2: appropriating and then essentially just stealing content or stealing things

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Speaker 2: from the black community of the US because you like

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Speaker 2: it so much, but you don't want to give credit

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Speaker 2: and you want to make.

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Speaker 3: Money like you're stealing.

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Speaker 2: But that's you don't think that's racism, which is an

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Speaker 2: odd flex just pretending like it doesn't exist, like yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: it's still it still does you're being racist. Or when

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Speaker 2: you say you don't you don't know about black people,

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Speaker 2: and then you do a really bad stereotypes of what

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Speaker 2: you think because you saw it from a racist film

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Speaker 2: in the US. From the US, it's just so many

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Speaker 2: double edged swords. But just because you pretend like it

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Speaker 2: doesn't exist there, or they don't talk about it as

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Speaker 2: as much as there, that it doesn't exist, then that's

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Speaker 2: a problem. And that's kind of that level of what

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Speaker 2: I've seen within that four Be movement, which again, according

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Speaker 2: to many, many many, is not that big it's again,

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Speaker 2: I think it's growing more popular internationally than it is

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Speaker 2: anywhere else. And you know, and because many of those

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Speaker 2: who understand not to appropriate, they leave the original term

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Speaker 2: as is. Although I want to say, take off your

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Speaker 2: corset was a movement that was essentially like westernized with

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Speaker 2: the whole corsets uh binding women, and that was a

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Speaker 2: movement essentially similar to that burning the bra all those

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Speaker 2: to the flour bee movements.

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Speaker 3: So it's something to remember.

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Speaker 2: But I'm saying all this because I think it's important

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Speaker 2: that we look at every aspect, because if we ignore

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Speaker 2: the bad, then we allow for history to repeat itself

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Speaker 2: where it's like we eat our own essentially, and that's

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Speaker 2: going to be a problem, and I don't want to

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Speaker 2: see that happen. I would love again for equality in

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Speaker 2: itself and equity in itself to come through, but also

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Speaker 2: to remember who we're fighting for, and it's not just

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Speaker 2: us as individuals or our own small community.

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Speaker 3: And I'll say, I say small and very like.

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Speaker 2: You know, our very niche community as opposed to realizing

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Speaker 2: the bigger picture.

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Speaker 3: Once again, Yes, yes.

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Speaker 1: It's important to talk about this stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'll just bring all the bad. I'm like I'm the

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Speaker 2: I am again the sad sack Sam over here. You're

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Speaker 2: welsome And for those of you who may because I

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Speaker 2: think I've gaining a little few more Korean listeners and

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Speaker 2: I'm loving that.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hi, if you.

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Speaker 2: Want to tell us about if you want to send

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Speaker 2: us some more information, we would love that. Obviously we

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Speaker 2: are very us centered. I was had a hard time

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Speaker 2: finding anything outside of for be movement yay, so we

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Speaker 2: would love to know the ends and outs what you think.

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely well listeners. If you would like to contact

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Speaker 1: us about that, you can. You can email U at

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Speaker 1: Stephanie and mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can

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Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on

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Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok at stuff Whenever told you. We have

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Speaker 1: a tea public store, and we have a book you

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Speaker 1: can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as always too,

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Speaker 1: our super producer Christina, our executive producer My and our

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Speaker 1: contruder Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for listening

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Speaker 1: Stuff I Never told you. Ins direction of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check

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Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows,