1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 2: We have to be aware of bad ideas, and. 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: That's why I'm sharing with you that I cringed through 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: an article in The New York Times reviewing a new 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: book about polyamory called More So that you don't have 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: to a. 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 2: Rich lady who lives in Parkslope, Brooklyn, which is where 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: we lived before we moved to Florida, so I can 9 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: tell you park Slope is where the worst of ideas 10 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 2: are born. She goes out one night and flirts with 11 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: a man in a bar. When she tells her husband 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 2: about it, he suggests she's sleep with the man and 13 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: tell him about it. They proceed to open their marriage 14 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: and have what sounds like the most horrific experiences ever, 15 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 2: and they suggest you do the same. The husband admits 16 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: he was not at all discerning about who he slept 17 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: with when they first open their marriage, but it doesn't 18 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: really sound like the wife was either. At first, she 19 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: mostly slept with men who were cheating on their wives. 20 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: Great and then she describes people like Carl the German, 21 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 2: who pushes her to have a threesome with him and 22 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: his fiance and then never calls her again. Or the 23 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: French guy who refuses to wear condoms and likes to 24 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 2: have sex in public bathrooms and she ends up getting 25 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 2: kicked out of a coworking space because you're really not 26 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: supposed to have sex in there, and she talks about 27 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 2: a younger guy who is well endowed but can't actually 28 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: perform in bed so hot, And then there's the part 29 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: about her kids finding out that the parents have opened 30 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: their marriage that just made me. 31 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 3: Want to die. 32 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 2: The truth is that, in general, I'm very free wheeling 33 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: about what you want to do with your own life. 34 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 2: Are there people who will be happy with polyamory? I 35 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 2: don't really believe it because it discounts human nature completely. 36 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: But if that's what you're into and it works for you, 37 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: go on have fun. What bothers me is that marriage, 38 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: actual marriage where two people love and support each other 39 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: and are actually happy together, really never get the New 40 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 2: York Times treatment. It's all unhappy marriages and unhappy people 41 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: stepping out on their spouses and trying to convince the 42 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: rest of us that this is the best way. I 43 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 2: get that stories about happy people with functioning relationships and 44 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 2: non cringy sex isn't a story, but we have to 45 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,519 Speaker 2: wonder why that is. And something I think about is 46 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 2: that most people still believe that fifty percent of marriages 47 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: end in divorce, and it's completely not true. That was 48 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: at its peak in the eighties, and I would say 49 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: that part of that was cultural and portraying divorces like 50 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 2: this fun, amazing thing you should try. But that number 51 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: is actually about a third of marriages today, and that's 52 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: genuinely a sharp decline. Part of the reason I started 53 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: this show was because of all this negativity around marriage 54 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: and our culture, and the constant push of these kinds 55 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 2: of stories that portray marriage as a burden and family 56 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 2: life as something you need to shrug off into order 57 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: to be happy. I like having guests on who are 58 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: in happy marriages or hoping to get into one. I 59 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: like showing that the better path is to find a 60 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 2: real partner, to have a balanced marriage, and to get 61 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: to be your actual self and not be scouring cheating 62 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: websites to find random men to fulfill something in you 63 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 2: that just won't ever be satisfied. On this show, I 64 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 2: hope to be the antidote to stories like the ones 65 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: The New York Times shows you, and I thank you 66 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: for listening. Coming up next an interview with Anaka Rothstein. 67 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: Join us after the break. 68 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 4: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 69 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 4: My guest today is Anika hernroth Rothstein. Anika is an 70 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 4: election advisor and author, CEO of the ad Agency No 71 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 4: Mad Ghana and just all around badass. Hi, Anika, so 72 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 4: nice to have you. 73 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: So nice. 74 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:57,279 Speaker 3: We're an introduction. 75 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: I love it. I added that last bitch. 76 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 3: No, I'm like, I kind of feel like I need 77 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 3: to update my business cards. 78 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 4: I agree, I definitely like I leave that's not already 79 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 4: on your business card? 80 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 3: Honestly, No, I mean it's so it's your's. 81 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 4: You're our first international guest obviously, and you're yeah. I 82 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 4: mean it's been all people in America thus far, and 83 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 4: you're a Swedish woman in Ghana. 84 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 2: How did that happen? 85 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 4: So? 86 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 3: Oh wow? By accident is in my life? I would say. 87 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 3: The very short, the condensed version is that I had 88 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 3: just gotten back from Venezuela. Was supposed to take a 89 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 3: break because I had like an int as you now, 90 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 3: like an intense time in Venezuela. I get a message. 91 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: I remember the Venezuela years. 92 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 3: That was a lot. So I was like, Oh, I'm 93 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 3: going to chill out, like maybe write my second book 94 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 3: or do something. And then I get a DM on 95 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 3: Twitter from somebody who says want to work on elections 96 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 3: in Africa. I feel like it would be a really 97 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 3: great bit. Saw what you did in Venezuela. If you 98 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 3: can survive that, you can do anything. And because I 99 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 3: have no impulse control whatsoever thing in the city, I 100 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 3: thought to myself, that sounds wild. Let's do that. And 101 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 3: that is now four years ago. Wow, and some change. 102 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, So do you see yourself staying there? 103 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 3: I don't know. I've learned not to think too hard 104 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 3: on these things because it just tends to not work 105 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 3: out that way. I gave myself five years when I came, 106 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 3: and it ended up like being a good situation for me. 107 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 3: Initially I said five years because five years is as like, 108 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 3: after five years you live lived somewhere. Maybe that's just 109 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 3: my infernal logic, but after five years you're properly sid 110 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 3: at all. And I haven't reached my level of maturity 111 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 3: in life yet where I'm comfortable being properly settled in. 112 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 3: I think I think five years makes sense, Yeah, because 113 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 3: it just felt it felt right. So I'm thinking that 114 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 3: I'm going in six months, I'll take like a mini 115 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 3: break somewhere and think about it and figure some stuff out. 116 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 3: But that's that's the level of planning that I'm at. 117 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 3: I always and so far good kind of. 118 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 4: So Anaka's book is Exile. It's very you could see, 119 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 4: it's very well worn. 120 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 2: I read it a lot. 121 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 4: It's portraits of the Jewish diaspora, and it what it 122 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 4: is is. 123 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: It traces Jewish communities all. 124 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 4: Around the world in different places that you wouldn't imagine 125 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 4: there are Jewish communities. So what would you say was 126 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 4: your kind of most unique place that you. 127 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 2: Visited and what did you like about it? 128 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 4: Why? 129 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 3: I mean Iran is the thing that stands out, I 130 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 3: suppose because it's it's a Jewish community that a lot 131 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 3: of people think about, have opinions about, used as a 132 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 3: tool for in various debates, whether it's for or against something. 133 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 3: The Persian Jews are and the Jews of Iran are 134 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 3: are used a lot. You know, that's something I found 135 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 3: after the fact, but being there it impacted me. It 136 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 3: made me a much more art and sight and is 137 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 3: I think I mean, I was pretty cooper to courts 138 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 3: a begin Withay, but if you made me understand, like, yeah, 139 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 3: I was sort of to the to the right of 140 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 3: Genghis Khan before that, and then it just moved. But 141 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 3: most of us have never had an experience, been able 142 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 3: to figure out what life is like before Israel or 143 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 3: without Israel. Thank God, we don't know that. But being 144 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 3: in Iran made me understand what my life would be 145 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 3: like as a Jew or not for this date of Israel. 146 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 3: That was the I could walk in their shoes for 147 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 3: a moment, and I mean, of course I could leave, 148 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 3: so it's different. But it made me understand the enormest 149 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 3: freedom that comes with even me in the diaspora, for 150 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 3: me to be a Jew feel free to speak, act 151 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 3: be Jewish, speak out, act out because I know that 152 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 3: I have a light wrap, you know, somebody watching my back. Yeah, 153 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 3: there's always a backup, right, And I was able to 154 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 3: spend two months with people who have no backup. It 155 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 3: humbled me to what they have to do, what they 156 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 3: can't do, what they have to do with, they can't say, 157 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 3: what they have to say, all of those things, which 158 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 3: is why I'm today. I must start seeking the bender 159 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 3: of them and also very sensitive to when people speak 160 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 3: about them. I would say, but it was. And then 161 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 3: of course I was able to go to the tomb 162 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 3: of Estern Mordecai, which was, you know, a tremendously emotional 163 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 3: experience to be in an ancient Jewish community and and 164 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 3: just it felt I mean, everywhere you go where there's Jews, 165 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 3: that's home, you know, to some extent. But it was 166 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 3: it's more with the political aspects of it, the the autrocities, 167 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 3: atrocities that they go through every day. But how do 168 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 3: you shabat mew and Tehran is something that will they 169 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 3: would read forever. It was like, it's it's the amazing experience. 170 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 4: So you spent a lot of time in Venezuela, and 171 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 4: I think you really quite have an affinity for the 172 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 4: Venezuelan people. 173 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 2: Is that fair to say? 174 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 4: I feel like I've heard some real warmth from you 175 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 4: about them. 176 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 2: What was that like? What was your How long did 177 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: you spend in Venezuela? Excited you were there? 178 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 3: I was there? Yeah, I was there, And. 179 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 4: I'm not like a long time ago either, like it 180 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 4: was I mean I'm saying and it wasn't like pre revolution. 181 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 3: It was like right, it was like fury half years ago, 182 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 3: I guess now that I left, or even less. And 183 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's affinity, it's passion, it's love for them, 184 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 3: and I sirened it salts like home. I guess maybe 185 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 3: that also speaks to my love of chaos from chaos 186 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 3: and noise, you know, So maybe that's between me and 187 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 3: my therapist what went on minutter, But but it just 188 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 3: I it was one of those places. And the same 189 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 3: thing with Iran. I was supposed to be there for 190 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 3: like a week and it turned into two months, which 191 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 3: was ill advised in a lot of ways. The same 192 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: thing happened in Venezuela because I was supposed to go 193 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 3: there cover. I came there right after Unguido had announced, 194 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 3: so it's like, I'm going to go there. I'm not 195 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 3: gonna write about it. Maybe go to shool and we're done. 196 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 3: And I stayed a year because I just could not 197 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 3: stop digging at it, because it's one of those places 198 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 3: where you think you get it and then something happens 199 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 3: and then you understand, oh, so it's all shit. I 200 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 3: thought that, you know, I came there. I think I 201 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 3: was I still wanted to believe that there's like a 202 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 3: good and a bad and you know that I there 203 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 3: could be just this unequivocally good side and somebody is 204 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 3: fighting in the freedom and justice thing of it all. 205 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 3: Of course we all love that on the the curve 206 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 3: of that drama is it speaks to it all of us. 207 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 2: Do you want to tell us about that? 208 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 3: Or is that a touch well if it's not touchy, 209 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 3: I mean I was deported, so I was so as 210 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 3: you are right, uh huh. 211 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 2: I love the first deported, by the way, the first. 212 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 4: Time I was deported, yes, because obviously that was not 213 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 4: the only time. 214 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 2: ANKA was deported. 215 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 3: No, it was the signs of two kidnappings, one deportation, 216 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 3: one illegal entry and one warrant for my arrest by 217 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 3: being sabine, which is that's why I ultimately left after 218 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 3: a year, because I was deported and of course you 219 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 3: can't enter again technically, but it's quite easy to smuggle 220 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 3: oneself in through into Venezuela from Colombia. Usually people go out, 221 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 3: as we know, usually bye, I usually me, But I 222 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 3: actually I had the help of a rabbi. I won't 223 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 3: mention his name, but a rabbi helped me right sneak 224 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 3: into Venezuela across the bridge. So I came back. I 225 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 3: got kidnapped again for the second time after having done that. 226 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,599 Speaker 3: And then and they found out I was there illegally 227 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 3: and use that as an excuse to issue a warrant 228 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 3: for my arrest the intelligence services, does it be? And 229 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 3: then that even I realized that you don't want to 230 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 3: get disappeared in Venezuela by people who are trained by Cubans. Yeah, 231 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 3: so so. 232 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 4: I got I remember thinking I need anaka to get 233 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:24,719 Speaker 4: out of there, like right now. 234 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 3: And that's an Yeah, that was there were again, I 235 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 3: knew there were you obviously. 236 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 4: I love that there's that there's this amazing you know, 237 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 4: Jewish Swedish woman who goes to these crazy places and 238 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 4: tells us the stories. But like a lot of people, 239 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 4: I'm sure in your life you you worry me. 240 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: You definitely worry me. 241 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there was there was a time when 242 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 3: during that time, my best friend was a very calm 243 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 3: and collected woman wrote me and said, I would like 244 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 3: you to send me your funeral plans as I assuming 245 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 3: that I'm the one that didn't. 246 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 4: The foot bull fall. 247 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: And at that point I realized she sounds Russian. 248 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 3: Honestly, yes, she was very light to that is that 249 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 3: I would like to know. I'm assuming you want to 250 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 3: be clone to Israel, so please let me know how 251 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 3: I should go about that. But that was the point 252 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 3: at which when you have to negotiate your exits with 253 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 3: a foreign intelligence service, which was what I was doing. 254 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 3: I hit an abrothel for a few days and negotiated 255 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 3: my way out. The only leverage I had was my 256 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 3: Twitter following and basically putting them on blasts and and 257 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 3: basically they are anti Semitism because they believed that I 258 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 3: was much more connected than I actually am. So that 259 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 3: was because I had been accused of being as always 260 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 3: a Zionist entity, spy, et cetera. You know, the user, 261 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 3: the usual style interloper. Yeah, you know, that's just what 262 00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 3: they usually the classic the hits. I'm so so I 263 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 3: use that to my advantage and basically play that side 264 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 3: up dramatically and said, you know, if you do not 265 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 3: allow me like safe passage, you know, the Mussad will 266 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 3: come down on you, which I verish scouted at anybody. 267 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: I totally know them, but I totally know no. I 268 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 2: can tweet at method right now. 269 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 3: Actually, let me go so there, so that was it. 270 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 3: That was the end of that year, and a lot 271 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 3: of people, are you really on both sides that right? 272 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 4: I'm sure we're going to take a quick break and 273 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 4: be right back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. 274 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 2: So I don't know if I've told you this before, 275 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: but I've been. 276 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 4: To Venezuela a few times when I was young. Oh, 277 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 4: it's actually our first trip. Well, so you know, I'm 278 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 4: born in Russia. I moved to America. My parents super poor, 279 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 4: but their whole life is as soon as they make 280 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 4: any money is to travel. And our very first international trip, 281 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 4: or I think it might have been our very first 282 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 4: trip anywhere, is to Venezuela. And we get there and 283 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 4: we get to the Caracas Hilton and it is, oh 284 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 4: my god, magical a pool. I don't think I'd ever 285 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 4: swam in a pool until that point. And then we 286 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 4: take like a rickety plane to Canaima National Park, which 287 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 4: is you know, red water and piranhas and and just 288 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 4: the most beautiful thing ever. But for me, I was like, 289 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 4: can we go back to that pool. 290 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: At the Hilton, because that was way better than this 291 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 2: hut that we're sleeping in at night. 292 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 4: So I have warm, warm memories of Venezuela, and it 293 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 4: was a Russian hot spot. I don't want to say Russian. 294 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 4: I mean ex Soviet Jews who live in New York, 295 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 4: not Russians in Russia. But Venezuela was a big tourist 296 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 4: destination for a long time until until it wasn't. So 297 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 4: I hope that they get back to, you know, being 298 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 4: a country where you can be safe and I can 299 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 4: take my kids on a rickety plain to Kanaima again someday. 300 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 2: Because it is that would be the goal. 301 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 3: It's the goal. And it's also even now when I 302 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 3: live in Ghana. My favorite place in Ghana is a 303 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 3: region that lives exactly like Venezuela. So it's really what's 304 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 3: the region, the Volta region, So it has the same 305 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 3: you know, the mountain and river and rainforests, and it's 306 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 3: both slow and fast paced at the same time in 307 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 3: a very strange way. There's like an intensity to it, 308 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 3: and it's I mean, I guess there's some irony in 309 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,479 Speaker 3: The places that I love the most are places that 310 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 3: that maybe I could get into those countries again, but 311 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 3: I'm not sure how I would be allowed to lead. 312 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 3: So the list of those countries are growing, which. 313 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 2: Is really the most important part. 314 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 4: You know. 315 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 3: I found that it is I've learned through the yess 316 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,239 Speaker 3: that that leaving is really essential, or leaving on your 317 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 3: own terms, right is essential. Yeah. 318 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 4: So a question that I ask all of my guests 319 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 4: is what do you think is our largest cultural societal 320 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 4: problem in America? But obviously you're not Americans. So what 321 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 4: would you say? Is worldwide the largest cultural or societal problem? 322 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 4: And is it solvable? Oh? 323 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 3: Wow, okay, worldwide? That's a lot of responsibility. 324 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 2: I mean, I think a country if you want, well, 325 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 2: I hoppy too, you eat it. You know, Sweden's biggest 326 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 2: cultural problem. 327 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 3: Is I'd get care soled if I said yes, yes. 328 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 3: But I mean as a person. You know this, I've 329 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 3: written extensively about it that as a kid, I spent 330 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 3: my summers in Dallas and Texas and it kind of 331 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 3: started my whole love affair with the US. And it 332 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 3: was so drastically different because Sweden and like the nineties 333 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 3: early nineties was a closed country. I mean a lot 334 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 3: of socialism, a lot of like one chance from the TV, 335 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 3: one kind of ketchup that kind of thing, and right, 336 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 3: you're right, And I got to Texas As like an 337 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 3: eight year old, and I was like, whatever this is, 338 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 3: like put it straight into my vein, Like I was the. 339 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 2: Most like I'm converting to American right now. 340 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 3: It was always amazing thing I've ever experienced. 341 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 4: And that and also just to have Texas, Yeah, to 342 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 4: have Texas be your first American experience, like the most American, 343 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 4: you know. 344 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I kept going back and going back, and 345 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 3: I stayed with my dad's best friend from high school. 346 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 3: My dad went to high school in Dallas. This guy 347 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 3: was it wouldn't happen today, single man in his fifties, 348 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 3: hardcore Republican. We basically watched the news, went to the Alamo, 349 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 3: went to the school, the book depository, and like he 350 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 3: was like taking me through. We watched the OJ trial together. 351 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 3: Like there was a lot of like different wow memory. 352 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 3: But the thing that I fell in love with was 353 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 3: how unapologetic it all was. Right, Like there was clear identity. 354 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 3: I understood what it was like some of it was 355 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 3: loud and strange and a lot, but I unders added 356 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 3: what it was because people understood who they were, which 357 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 3: to me as a Swedish part so big yeah, And 358 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 3: as a European that's like Wow, people are saying like this, 359 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 3: who I am, I'm standing by I had a shirt 360 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 3: that said, don't mess it with Texas. I'm like, okay, 361 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 3: I love that, right, Like I get this, yeah, And 362 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 3: to ject the post that with Europe's dramatic lenning, and 363 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 3: I what I see today because I went through most 364 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 3: of my life assuming that everything else can change. Europe 365 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 3: changes a lot through my adults are growing into an 366 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 3: adult that has changed drastically. But I knew that the 367 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 3: US would always stay the same, I thought. And what 368 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 3: I see now in the US is very reminiscent of 369 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 3: what I've seen in Europe over the past, that's say, 370 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 3: ten to fifteen years, which is lack of identity so interesting, 371 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 3: And it's the thing that has because we've all the 372 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 3: movements you've seen in the US now all this extreme. 373 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 3: Isn't this sad pick in the vitriol, the bizarre identity 374 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 3: politics we lived with that, Like I've lived in this 375 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 3: story already, like I've seen the movie already. Never in 376 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 3: my wildest dreams would I think that this would take 377 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 3: place in the US. But I think it's although the 378 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 3: European lack of identity comes from a different wound in 379 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 3: my opinion, which is the Second World War and sort 380 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 3: of the lessons, the wrong lessons that were taken from that. 381 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 3: They kind of cast off nationalism and national identity and 382 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 3: all of these things. Right, I'm working very hard not 383 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 3: to make this like a Ted Talks of Skip but 384 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 3: what I. 385 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 5: But I'm like in my head, I'm like, after this, 386 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 5: I'm going to message Onnica and say you have to 387 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 5: write about this, Like, you must write something about this. 388 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 4: This is such a good point that I really don't 389 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 4: think I've seen made elsewhere. 390 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 3: Well what I saw, go on, please, Yeah, what I 391 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 3: saw is that I'm going to take one thing that 392 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: to me when I watched it as a person wise 393 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 3: strong ways to the to the Middle East and to Europe, 394 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 3: as a Jew, all of these things, although I hate 395 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 3: saying as a Jew, so it's. 396 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: Just as a Jew, right. Yeah. 397 00:22:54,000 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 3: When I saw Obama's Cairo speech, I was like, wait, wait, wait, 398 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 3: this is different. This is like a crack in the veneer. 399 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 3: This is a way of speaking about America and the 400 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 3: world that I don't and I'm not American, but somebody 401 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 3: who is like wholeheartedly adopted America and he has a 402 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 3: love affair with that country. This is not the identity 403 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 3: that I know it to be. It is apologetic. It 404 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 3: is moving away from like, oh, we're not all that. 405 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 3: We don't want to be too involved, we don't want 406 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 3: to be this, we don't want to be that. It's 407 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 3: it was distinct. He was distancing himself, and by such 408 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 3: shame the US from all the things that we desperately 409 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 3: need the US to be. Because it's applicable to draw 410 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 3: like a very very perhap strange conclusion from it me 411 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 3: as it like as a European Jew, I learned very 412 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 3: early often if I become of myself, they're gonna punch 413 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 3: me twice as hard. Nothing good will ever come of 414 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 3: me saying sorry, sorry, sorry, I don't like Israel. I'm 415 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 3: not that Jewish. I'm Jewish. Don't worry about it, right, 416 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 3: your food don't. 417 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, they don't even kill you last at that point anymore, you. 418 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 3: Know, like there are now like like my mom always said, 419 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 3: there are no first class tickets on the trains Auschwitz, 420 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 3: and I understand it's a very hard statement, but it's 421 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 3: also no, it's real. It's what it is. And so 422 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 3: what I loved about the US was like, Okay, sometimes 423 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 3: it's like that guy that we sometimes think is an asshole. 424 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 3: I'm not sure I'm allowed to say that, but way, 425 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 3: you're totally loud to yeah, okay, but we respect him 426 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 3: because he is a monopoly. We know what he's about, 427 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 3: and we also know that like if I'm back into 428 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 3: a corner, this is the guy I'm calling. So yeah, 429 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 3: we aren't your man that entity, and now none of 430 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 3: that exists anymore. So it's like the same thing that 431 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 3: I see in Europe that for fifteen years we've been 432 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 3: in a tail span nobody went past. In Sweden specifically, 433 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 3: somebody asked what is it to be Swedish? They go, well, 434 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm saying I'm Swedish. It's a compliment. 435 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 3: And if you say somebody you're so UnSwedish, that's a 436 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 3: compliment in Sweden because we have some disdain for ourselves 437 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 3: and that is But yeah, I know you probably wanted 438 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 3: to do you. 439 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 2: See the pedulum swinging? 440 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 4: No? 441 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 2: No, I love this answer. 442 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 4: I think this is like amazing and you definitely should 443 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 4: write about this and I'm going to read it. 444 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 2: And share it. But do you think the pendulum will swing? 445 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 4: Because I have to say, there was right before Brexit, 446 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 4: which you know, everybody was like no way, Bregsit's going 447 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 4: to pass, Like the polls were all like absolutely no. 448 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 4: A British lefty friend of mine posted something like what's 449 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 4: the big deal about being British? Like why do we 450 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 4: need to be on our own? Like why can't we 451 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 4: just like join, you know, join stay in the European Union? 452 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 4: Nothing makes us that special? And I swear when he 453 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 4: posted that, I was like, oh, wow, this thing is 454 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 4: going to pass. Like nobody wants to think they're not special, 455 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 4: nobody wants to think there's nothing unique about their culture. 456 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 4: Like I was like, this is passing. That was my moment, 457 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 4: and when it did, I was like, yeah, I mean 458 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 4: this is it. British people want to feel British, and 459 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 4: Swedish people, I think somewhere in there want to feel Swedish. 460 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 4: I think that's just like what's becoming and morble to say. 461 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 4: And every time, every time a right wing party wins 462 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 4: in Europe, it's like, how could this happen? 463 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you how this happens. 464 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 3: Well, Well, the problem is that in lieu of national identity, 465 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 3: everybody is the main character. Every single thing is the 466 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 3: main character with the goal should always be to have 467 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 3: a strong national identity so that we unite under a 468 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 3: certain Now we're living in a house without walls, you 469 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 3: know this, right, and everything kind of goes right. And 470 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 3: and with national identity comes sense of purpose, unity, religion, 471 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 3: most likely all of these things that are values allive 472 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 3: equal down. And when you take that away, you know, 473 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 3: a vacuum will will will long to fill itself with something. 474 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,959 Speaker 3: And it's all these little piecers that come in and 475 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 3: where everybody is the main character. Everybody needs to replace 476 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 3: us because we need that identity and it's been taken 477 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 3: from us in Europe where we gave it out rather 478 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 3: and it's the pendulum swaying. Well, I think that what 479 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 3: I see in Europe is that, yeah, we have fractions, 480 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 3: right like, there are fractions where there's very strong identity 481 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 3: in this corner over here, in that corner over there, 482 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 3: But that's not what we're looking for. I have had 483 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 3: a strong sense of paradise lost for I don't know, 484 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 3: I guess it's twenty years now, Oh God forbid. Because 485 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 3: I grew up in a place that was very, very different. 486 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 3: It wasn't the most exciting place, but I knew what 487 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 3: it was, and that I don't think I in my 488 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 3: lifetime I will ever see again. 489 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 4: We haven't talked about it, but you have these two 490 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 4: beautiful teenage sons, and you lived this exciting, amazing life. 491 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 4: You're you know, CEO of a company and you're just awesome. 492 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 4: Do you feel like you've made it? 493 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 3: I don't think it's in the Jewish nature to ever 494 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 3: feel you've made it. I feel like I hover around 495 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 3: seventy five percent on a good day, like that's a 496 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 3: really good day. On a bad day, I'm like thirty 497 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 3: four perhaps so, and I don't expect that to ever change. 498 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 3: Like I recognize that there are some aspects of my life. 499 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 3: I have moments when I think, wow, this is crazy, 500 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 3: this is amazing. But it's like, you know, you know, 501 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 3: like Jewish parents when you come home and you have 502 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 3: like straight a's and then one being jam or in 503 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 3: my case, an amping jam. Then the fun the focus 504 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 3: in the gym like nobody. 505 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 5: That's I am that Jewish parent that we flacted. The 506 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 5: joke in my house is like an a why not? 507 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 5: Like you know it's it a hundred why not one 508 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 5: hundred and five? 509 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 3: You know it works? You know it's like my dad 510 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 3: every on every birthday I've ever had, Like that used 511 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 3: to be the running joke that his only question, like 512 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 3: no happy birthday, was always it's just the year you're 513 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 3: getting a PhD. And because it's like embarrassing to be 514 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 3: the person without a PhD, so come on, get some shanza. 515 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 3: So so I think that it's kind of in one's 516 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 3: nature to not feel like because I don't expect in 517 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 3: my life like to ever feel like, Oh I made it, 518 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 3: I'm cool, now I'm good. So but if I can 519 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 3: maintain a seventy five percent where I like that that's 520 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 3: the average, I'd be very pleased with that. 521 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 4: So end here with your best tip for my listeners 522 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 4: on how they can improve their lives. 523 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 3: Well, so the tip is as well, I thought about 524 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 3: this and I was like, oh, I have to be 525 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 3: like really profound, and then I thought, no, I have 526 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,719 Speaker 3: to be like no, it's a lot of pressure. But 527 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 3: then I remember, So it's actually I'm the youngest of 528 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 3: three girls and my oldest sister gave me the best 529 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 3: advice I ever got and it changed my entire life. 530 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 3: And I was about twenty one twenty two. I was 531 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 3: in my very like naval gazing face that lasted about ten. 532 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 2: Years among us. 533 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 3: Right, yeah, it was a little, but it was also 534 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 3: like I was in the catch space where it was 535 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 3: a lot like Dad did this and mom did this 536 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 3: and won't me, and like I was really like heavy 537 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 3: into therapy and heavy into myself and heavy into what 538 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 3: everybody else owed me. And I guess she got sick 539 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 3: of it when they had coddled me for a long time, 540 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 3: because again, I'm the baby, so I expected that. And 541 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 3: then she kind of, yeah, she had a nap, and 542 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 3: she said, I'd like you to make a list of 543 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 3: the five best qualities in yourself, the fine things about 544 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 3: yourself that you're the most proud of, and I need this. 545 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 3: I really thought about it, because again I loved thinking 546 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 3: and talking about myself. So I was happy to get 547 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 3: this assignment because that was like pretty much my all 548 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 3: getting that. And I was like, oh, you know it, independence, 549 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 3: I'm intelligent, I'm a survivor, like all of these things, 550 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 3: and just said okay, and now i'd like you to 551 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 3: tell me how many of these are because you had 552 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 3: a happy childhood. And it shut me. 553 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 2: It shut me. 554 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm going to use that A happy childhood it 555 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 4: really does, right, you know, lead to a lot of 556 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 4: other good things. 557 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 3: So she looked at me, she was like, yes, so 558 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 3: things were kind of shit. Okay, dig where you stand, 559 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 3: say thank you very much. I'm an adult now and 560 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 3: I'm going to go deal with the world, deal with 561 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 3: my shit, and take my own responsibility. 562 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 2: And I like it. 563 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 4: It really it. 564 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 3: Was the slab in the face that I needed. But 565 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 3: I've applied it. I've applied it because it's I'm an adult, 566 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 3: which means that whatever goes wrong now it's on me. 567 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 3: Whatever goes right is on me, and that sent us 568 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 3: some responsibility. 569 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 2: That's the worst part of adult I hate it. 570 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's us. But what I found is 571 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 3: it helped me to get out of the place that 572 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 3: so many of us get stuck in for a long 573 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 3: time and getting back to what we spoke about before 574 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 3: and what we see going on in the US and 575 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 3: Europe and everywhere right now. I think a lot of 576 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 3: people would do well to kind of apply that in 577 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 3: one's life and to realize that, yeah, it's easy if 578 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 3: we look even for a second, we can find people 579 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 3: to blame for all kinds of things. But once you 580 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 3: get out of that business. It leads to really positive 581 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 3: placess and so that's the best advice I ever got it. 582 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 2: It's really great. Thank you so much for coming on. 583 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 3: Anka. 584 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 4: Her name is Anika Hernroth Rothstein. She's fantastic. Check out 585 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 4: her book Exile. She's truth and Fiction on Twitter, really 586 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 4: good follow. 587 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me on. It's actual pleasure. 588 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Marcowitch Show. 589 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 2: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.