Speaker 1: We hope you'll enjoy this episode from the archive.
Speaker 2: An affirmation that I just say because I'm trying to
Speaker 2: make myself feel better is different than when I'm saying
Speaker 2: something authentically because I believe it.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the one you feed Throughout time, great thinkers
Speaker 1: have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes
Speaker 1: like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you
Speaker 1: think ring true, and yet for many of us, our
Speaker 1: thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity,
Speaker 1: self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't
Speaker 1: have instead of what we do. We think things that
Speaker 1: hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not
Speaker 1: just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent,
Speaker 1: and creative effort to make a life worth living. This
Speaker 1: podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in
Speaker 1: the right path, how they feed their good wolf. Christine
Speaker 1: Hassler left her a successful job as a Hollywood agent
Speaker 1: at twenty five years old to pursue a life she
Speaker 1: could be passionate about, but it did not come easily.
Speaker 1: After being inspired by her own unexpected challenges and experiences,
Speaker 1: she realized her journey was indeed her destination. In two
Speaker 1: thousand and five, she wrote the first guide book written
Speaker 1: exclusively for young women, entitled twenty something twenty Everything. Her
Speaker 1: newest book is Expectation, Hangover, Overcoming Disappointment and Work, Love
Speaker 1: and Life. It's a guidebook for how to treat disappointment
Speaker 1: on the emotional, mental, behavioral, and spiritual levels. Today we
Speaker 1: discuss her challenges with divorce, depression, and disappointment and how
Speaker 1: to carry on and thrive in the face of challenges.
Speaker 3: Hi, Christine, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Eric, thank you for coming on. So we're going to
Speaker 3: talk about your new book, Expectation Hangover, which I sent
Speaker 3: you an email earlier where I said I was just
Speaker 3: sort of getting through the book. I I was delayed
Speaker 3: and getting to it. So I've been reading a lot
Speaker 3: of it, and this morning I was just like, this
Speaker 3: sounds so like your way of thinking about things, sounds
Speaker 3: so much like the way I approach the world. So
Speaker 3: I was really there were a lot of things in
Speaker 3: it that were pretty striking to me. So I'm looking
Speaker 3: forward to talking about.
Speaker 2: Those cool me too.
Speaker 3: So our show is called The One you feed. And
Speaker 3: it's based on the parable of two wolves, where there's
Speaker 3: a grandfather who's talking with his grandson and he says,
Speaker 3: in life, there are two wolves inside of us. One
Speaker 3: is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and
Speaker 3: bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf,
Speaker 3: which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And
Speaker 3: the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second.
Speaker 3: He looks up at his grand and he says, well, grandfather,
Speaker 3: which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed.
Speaker 3: So I'd like to start off by asking you what
Speaker 3: that parable means to you in your life and in
Speaker 3: the work that you do.
Speaker 2: At first, I love that parable. It's one of my
Speaker 2: very favorites. And I love that we're starting there because
Speaker 2: I think it gives us a great context. And what
Speaker 2: comes to me first is, you know, I think control
Speaker 2: is one of the master illusions that we have as
Speaker 2: human beings, and we never have complete control over what
Speaker 2: happens or doesn't happen in our life, but we do
Speaker 2: have choice and how we respond to it, and to me,
Speaker 2: that parable is really illustrating how we have choice. You know,
Speaker 2: we don't have control, but we have choice, and whatever
Speaker 2: we choose to think about, whatever we choose to give
Speaker 2: our energy, it tends to grow inside of us. So
Speaker 2: if we want to feed thoughts about how grateful for
Speaker 2: we are, how appreciative we are, how accepting we are,
Speaker 2: that tends to grow. And if we want to entertain
Speaker 2: thoughts about lack or fear or worry, then that tends
Speaker 2: to grow in our life. But I think it all
Speaker 2: comes back to choice. You know. I love Man Search
Speaker 2: for Meeting Victor Frankel's books. It's one of my favorite books.
Speaker 2: And I don't think I'm quoting exactly what he says
Speaker 2: in the book, but he says, in between stimulus and
Speaker 2: response is a window, and in that window lies our freedom,
Speaker 2: and that window, to me is choice.
Speaker 3: That's one of my favorite quotes too. So I got
Speaker 3: to ask you, then, what are some of the books
Speaker 3: that have been most inspiring to you over the years,
Speaker 3: Because I think Man Search for Meaning was certainly one
Speaker 3: for me. What else is in there for you?
Speaker 2: I'm sitting next to my bookshelf, my first the books
Speaker 2: that got me on the path and really turned me
Speaker 2: on to all this and just blew my mind. I
Speaker 2: read at the same time. So my first two were
Speaker 2: The Celesting Prophecy and The Alchemist. Okay, so those were
Speaker 2: two books that just like was like WHOA, just kind
Speaker 2: of opened my mind to what was possible, you know,
Speaker 2: And I think that I you know, I was very
Speaker 2: much raised in a traditional family, grew up Catholic, and
Speaker 2: so my belief system was was kind of limited, and
Speaker 2: I didn't really have a very expansive mindset, and so
Speaker 2: those books just completely blew my mind. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: think of other you know, I'm a big fan of
Speaker 2: Mary and Williamson. All her books have really touched my
Speaker 2: heart in my life. And then you know, I don't
Speaker 2: know if you've read The Science of Getting Rich by
Speaker 2: Wallace Water Wattles. It was written in nineteen twelve, and
Speaker 2: it talks about wealth consciousness and that really shifted things
Speaker 2: for me in terms of wealth and money and my
Speaker 2: relationship with money. And then speaking of relationships, so I
Speaker 2: have all different boxes. I love David Data's books the
Speaker 2: Way The Superior May, I think is a must read
Speaker 2: for any man and woman to really understand men. And
Speaker 2: then his other book, Intimate Communion, is about the different
Speaker 2: kinds of relationships that we have in the different stages
Speaker 2: we evolve through as men and women. So I really
Speaker 2: love books on spirituality, thoughts of conscious creation, relationships. Those
Speaker 2: are all the books that I dive into. I would
Speaker 2: say most of my books are nonfiction.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I read a lot of nonfiction too, although I
Speaker 3: grew up loving fiction and I occasionally go back to it.
Speaker 3: And there's something about experiencing the world and emotions through
Speaker 3: somebody else's eyes that can be very I think it's
Speaker 3: very good for empathy.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. I was such a nerd growing up, and
Speaker 2: I would build these furniture tents, like furniture fords. Did
Speaker 2: you ever do those? Like you move your furniture together
Speaker 2: and get like blankets and things.
Speaker 3: Chris is doing one right now.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 2: I want a picture of that. But I would climb
Speaker 2: in my furniture fords with my flash like be reading,
Speaker 2: you know, my novels and books and all that I
Speaker 2: love to read. Love it.
Speaker 3: So we talked about this idea of we don't You said,
Speaker 3: we don't have control, but we do have choice, which
Speaker 3: is a really great, little, great little quote there. So
Speaker 3: let's talk about your new book, which is called uh
Speaker 3: expectation hangover, and that I think a lot of that
Speaker 3: book gets to the fact of we don't have control, right.
Speaker 3: We have these ideas of the way we want things
Speaker 3: to turn out, but we don't have control, and this
Speaker 3: the book is about how do we deal with those things?
Speaker 3: So can you maybe tell us what is an expectation hangover?
Speaker 2: Sure, it's a term I made up, and it is
Speaker 2: a right. It can be different things. It can be
Speaker 2: when a desired result or an expected result does not occur,
Speaker 2: things don't go as planned. Life throws us an unexpected
Speaker 2: curveball that just senses reeling. Or we reach a desired result,
Speaker 2: things do goal according to plan, but we don't have
Speaker 2: the expected feeling or experience that we really counted on,
Speaker 2: and we're left with hangover like symptoms. And I'm sure
Speaker 2: everybody out there has had a hangover. If you if
Speaker 2: you haven't, that that's awesome that you've avoided that. But
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone has a hangover and is like,
Speaker 2: it's awesome. I just want to feel this way forever.
Speaker 2: And the symptoms of an expectation hangover are similar. You
Speaker 2: have a headache, not necessarily physical, that that can be
Speaker 2: the case but your head is aching from all the
Speaker 2: thinking and obsessing and analyzing and wondering about, you know,
Speaker 2: what did or didn't happen. You're spinning and the room
Speaker 2: isn't spinning, but you're spinning in confusion. There's often a
Speaker 2: sense of regret, there's a lack of motivation, there's kind
Speaker 2: of being down on yourself, and there's just, you know,
Speaker 2: really wanting to crawl into bed and pull the covers
Speaker 2: over your eyes. So that's the definition of an expectation hangover.
Speaker 3: So you mentioned a couple different types of expectation hangovers.
Speaker 3: One was when we expect that something's going to happen,
Speaker 3: it doesn't and and we're disappointed by that. The other
Speaker 3: you said was when we do get something we want
Speaker 3: and it doesn't give us the feeling we like, which
Speaker 3: I think is a fascinating one. I'm really interested in
Speaker 3: that one, having experienced it a bunch of times. What
Speaker 3: was the third one?
Speaker 2: Did you say, the curveball? When life throws us a curveball?
Speaker 3: Is that the third one?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 3: And so that is it's not that I had an
Speaker 3: expectation that I was going to get a certain thing.
Speaker 3: It's said I had an expectation that my life was
Speaker 3: going along a certain path, and then a curveball comes,
Speaker 3: whether like that maybe that's something like illness or divorce.
Speaker 2: Or on you all of a sudden, like your business
Speaker 2: goes bankrupt, your house burns down. I mean, it's just
Speaker 2: kind of you know, or can just be like all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, you like, you know, we're on your
Speaker 2: way to see the grocery store and you gotten a
Speaker 2: fender bender. It's little things. And I think that the
Speaker 2: two there's there's three kinds of expectation hangovers. There's inner
Speaker 2: personal meaning someone has disappointed us, someone has let us down.
Speaker 2: There's personal meaning, the kind of the self imposed we
Speaker 2: don't meet our own expectations. And then they're situational, you know,
Speaker 2: when things just happen or don't happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So you talk about in the book that
Speaker 3: we all tend to cope with these things several different ways,
Speaker 3: and these are the ways that don't work. Could you
Speaker 3: tell us what the ways that coping with these.
Speaker 2: I won't go through them all, but so a favorite
Speaker 2: of most people is overing, over drinking, over eating, over working,
Speaker 2: over shopping, over being on the internet, just doing anything
Speaker 2: to like avoid the feelings, anything to distract ourselves, anything
Speaker 2: to numb ourselves, even like getting super involved in someone
Speaker 2: else's life over caretaking. That's an example. Another kind of
Speaker 2: coping mechanism that I see a lot, and this is
Speaker 2: sort of become more prevalent with the personal growth industry,
Speaker 2: is just trying to get to the positive right away,
Speaker 2: like giving yourself a pep talk or trying to do
Speaker 2: a spiritual bypass where you try to get to the
Speaker 2: silver line and tell yourself it's all okay and life
Speaker 2: is great and da da da da dad. And And
Speaker 2: why that doesn't work is because you know, we're humans,
Speaker 2: and even though part of us knows or has the
Speaker 2: awareness that you know, everything does happen for a reason
Speaker 2: and there's a blessing in every lesson, there's still the
Speaker 2: human feelings of sadness, anger, shock, regret, shame, guilt, the
Speaker 2: things that are normal to experience during an expectation hangover.
Speaker 2: So so trying to just get to the positive right
Speaker 2: away doesn't really work. So any kind of distraction, avoiding, numbing,
Speaker 2: any of those techniques are are common. You know, I
Speaker 2: know so many people, for example, who in the midst
Speaker 2: of an expectation, hangover, start drinking more. And with all
Speaker 2: of these coping strategies, they work in the short term.
Speaker 2: Like if I'm really sad because I just had a
Speaker 2: breakup and I go drink, I have a bottle of
Speaker 2: wine with my girlfriends, I'm going to have a moment
Speaker 2: of relief and that's going to feel good. But it's
Speaker 2: not authentic, it's not real. It's something that I've contrived
Speaker 2: through the alcohol. And then the next day I feel
Speaker 2: even worse because ocohol is a depressant and you already
Speaker 2: feel bad. So when you put any of these kind
Speaker 2: of depressants anything alcoholic drugs, TV, Internet, those kind of
Speaker 2: things that lower your brain chemistry, it's like you're already
Speaker 2: climbing a mountain of disappointment and you add those things
Speaker 2: and it's like putting a fifty pound backpack on your
Speaker 2: back and you're just making the climb harder.
Speaker 3: Right, Which is why I would just drink again the
Speaker 3: next morning and keep that, keep that, keep that rolling,
Speaker 3: which is why I don't drink anymore. So I'm fully
Speaker 3: familiar with that, that that phenomenon I do.
Speaker 2: Can I say one more thing about that? That important
Speaker 2: for people to get is the thing about when using
Speaker 2: those coping mechanisms like you just said, is you have
Speaker 2: to keep upping the ante right and oftentimes an expectation
Speaker 2: hangover left untreated does lead to an addiction problem the
Speaker 2: it alcohol, drugs, sex, whatever it is, because in order
Speaker 2: to keep numbing the pain, you have to keep upping
Speaker 2: the ante.
Speaker 3: Yep. Absolutely. I love that phrase spiritual bypass because I
Speaker 3: think that is such a common thing, and I think
Speaker 3: you're right, particularly as it's sort of a dark side
Speaker 3: of personal development, because there is a real tendency to
Speaker 3: immediately think I should never feel bad, and if I
Speaker 3: do feel bad, then I need to do something about it.
Speaker 3: And I even think that sometimes the positive actions that
Speaker 3: we take. You know, I was in a recovery program
Speaker 3: and there was a real tendency or am in a
Speaker 3: recovery program, a real tendency that like, if you ever
Speaker 3: have a negative emotion, there is something you should go
Speaker 3: do that will make it go away. And the reality,
Speaker 3: like you say, is that those emotions need some degree
Speaker 3: of processing.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Absolutely absolutely, because we all feel things, and
Speaker 2: men too, not women are not the only ones who
Speaker 2: feel and when we don't process our feelings It's like
Speaker 2: trying to keep a beach ball underwater. You know, you
Speaker 2: struggle with it for a while, and sooner or later
Speaker 2: it's gonna pop up and slappy in the nose. And
Speaker 2: we I think we're so uncomfortable with emotions. We're not
Speaker 2: taught how to process emotions. We're not taught how to
Speaker 2: deal them. We're told to be strong. That's another coping
Speaker 2: mechanism that doesn't work. Just being strong and fighting our
Speaker 2: way through it. That's a common one for overachievers, you know,
Speaker 2: just just be strong and just plow right through it.
Speaker 2: But when we suppress our emotions that are a natural
Speaker 2: part of the human experience, not only does it lead
Speaker 2: to not dealing with an expectation hangover, but it can
Speaker 2: actually create illness in our body because emotion is energy
Speaker 2: in motion. So if we don't have healthy ways to
Speaker 2: get that emotion out, it's going to sneak up on us.
Speaker 2: It's going to come out in some other form.
Speaker 4: Yeap.
Speaker 3: And I think that is that is so true. And
Speaker 3: I think if there's one one area that I tend
Speaker 3: to go wrong with that these days, it would be
Speaker 3: with that spiritual bypass. It would be by simply finding
Speaker 3: a way, and I think that's we talk on this show.
Speaker 3: One of my one of the guests we had on
Speaker 3: wrote a great book and it was examined in the
Speaker 3: American self help industry, and she had a quote in
Speaker 3: there because she grew up with a father who was
Speaker 3: a therapist and a self help author himself, and she
Speaker 3: asked the question that I really thought was a great question,
Speaker 3: and I think it speaks right to this, which is
Speaker 3: when is it positive thinking and when is it sort
Speaker 3: of outright denial? Yeah, and that is such a tricky line.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, I think when you're trying to talk
Speaker 2: yourself into something, then it's you know, an affirmation that
Speaker 2: I just say because I'm trying to make myself feel
Speaker 2: better is different than when I'm saying something authentically because
Speaker 2: I believe it, you know, And the unconscious mind can
Speaker 2: tell when we're besing ourselves, which is why, like I
Speaker 2: call a pendulum thinking in the book, you know, to
Speaker 2: go from let's say that like you just you're an
Speaker 2: entrepreneur and your business just failed. Most likely you're naturally
Speaker 2: going to have thoughts like I failed or I'm a
Speaker 2: loser or something that's like that, to then shift to
Speaker 2: I'm learning from this and I am an amazing person
Speaker 2: and what I will thrive from this. It's like it's
Speaker 2: this huge pendulum and your unconscious mind is like no, no,
Speaker 2: like I don't believe you.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: So it's better to kind of get to the middle
Speaker 2: and go, you know, something like I accept where I am.
Speaker 2: I did the best I could. You know, those kind
Speaker 2: of like I am enough, All is okay? You know,
Speaker 2: those things that calm us down a little bit and
Speaker 2: don't perpetuate the negative. I'm not saying perpetuate negative thinking,
Speaker 2: but I think you and I are both saying, don't
Speaker 2: try to get to the silver lining when you haven't
Speaker 2: gone through the breakthrough that's right in front of you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think the other thing that's interesting about
Speaker 3: everything that you just said and your book, your your
Speaker 3: book sort of talks about this in different ways, is
Speaker 3: everything that you just described your thoughts. Yes, and it's
Speaker 3: it's the it's the emotion that we're talking about how
Speaker 3: we and I always think that's a that's an interesting distinction,
Speaker 3: is because I do think it's import at least for
Speaker 3: myself to control to some degree to work with the
Speaker 3: thoughts I'm having because thoughts. Largely, I think our stories
Speaker 3: do a great degree, but emotion is something different. There's
Speaker 3: no an emotion is an emotion. Now there's an interaction
Speaker 3: between those two things. But I think that what you
Speaker 3: just described is being in touch with what the emotion is.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, people tend to think their emotions rather than feel
Speaker 2: their emotions. And in the book I talk about the
Speaker 2: difference between releasing and recycling emotions and why the emotional
Speaker 2: section is a first part of the treatment plan is
Speaker 2: because everybody just wants to think their way through something
Speaker 2: rather than really feel their way through something, and we
Speaker 2: end up recycling so many of our feelings and our
Speaker 2: emotions because let's say, let's say I have a good
Speaker 2: cry and I don't really feel better after the cry,
Speaker 2: you know, And I have so many clients that come
Speaker 2: to see me and I'm like, well, we really need
Speaker 2: to process your sadness, and they're like, well, I've cried
Speaker 2: and cried and cried and cried, and I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: but you're just recycling. And how we recycle is while
Speaker 2: we're crying or having the feeling or whatever it may be,
Speaker 2: there's a part of us that's judging and analyzing. There's
Speaker 2: this commentary going, when is this going to stop? I
Speaker 2: hate this, I shouldn't be so sad, da da, on
Speaker 2: and on and on. And what that does is it
Speaker 2: just recycles the emotion. And why therapy or coaching or
Speaker 2: even twelve step groups to some extent really work is
Speaker 2: because someone's given permission to be vulnerable and share their
Speaker 2: feelings and other people are just holding a space of compassion.
Speaker 2: They're not offering advice, they're not judging, they're not analyzing.
Speaker 2: Like a good support group, a good coach, a good
Speaker 2: therapist will just really hold a space for someone to
Speaker 2: be able to just emote and know that that's not
Speaker 2: who they are and say things like you're doing okay,
Speaker 2: it's okay, keep going. And we need to learn how
Speaker 2: to do that for ourselves to be able to have
Speaker 2: the feeling and at the same time discover this part
Speaker 2: of us. It's like, it's okay, it's okay, you're okay,
Speaker 2: rather than having this judger analyzer trying to get out
Speaker 2: of the feeling as quickly as possible.
Speaker 3: One of the books that I loved a lot I
Speaker 3: read when my son was two. We were talking about
Speaker 3: him earlier and my wife and I split and it
Speaker 3: was a really difficult time for me. And there was
Speaker 3: an author, Pema Children, who had a book called When
Speaker 3: Things Fall Apart, and she talks very much about that,
Speaker 3: don't indulge or repress those things and drop the storyline
Speaker 3: of what's happening. And I think that's so important. We
Speaker 3: talk on the show a lot about feeling bad, about
Speaker 3: feeling bad or the second arrow, which in Buddhist term,
Speaker 3: which is this exactly what you described. Now, I've got
Speaker 3: a feeling, and now I'm telling myself what that feeling means.
Speaker 3: It means that I'm not good enough, or it means
Speaker 3: that I shouldn't have this feeling with So if I
Speaker 3: feel this way, then I'm weak And all these things
Speaker 3: that we layer on top of and if we can
Speaker 3: get back to that what that original pain was, what's
Speaker 3: this actually about, it tends to allow us to do that.
Speaker 3: I love that phrase where you said that you know
Speaker 3: it's by analyzing these things that we go into recycling.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I love that you brought up When Things
Speaker 2: Fall Apart. When my fiance dumped me in my twenty
Speaker 2: six months before our wedding, that was my go to book.
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I remember during that breakup that was like
Speaker 2: such an important emotional release from me, and I remember
Speaker 2: having to like do kind of use the temper tantrum
Speaker 2: technique that I describe in the book like every day
Speaker 2: for like days, because the thing about an expectation hangover
Speaker 2: is that you're not only dealing with that particular event,
Speaker 2: We're also dealing with everything in our past that it triggers.
Speaker 2: And so let's say you're dealing with like a loss,
Speaker 2: a breakup, a divorce, like whatever it may be. When
Speaker 2: when that happens, you're also dealing with a lot of
Speaker 2: the other breakups you haven't dealt with yet. And I
Speaker 2: saw this really when I so I got my fiance
Speaker 2: broke up with me in my twenties, and then I
Speaker 2: got married to someone else, and then in my early thirties,
Speaker 2: it was clear my husband and I were going on
Speaker 2: different paths and it was a marriage that I completed
Speaker 2: and got divorced. And I have to say, and I
Speaker 2: don't think whether you're the one who gets broken up
Speaker 2: with or you're the one who leaves, I think a
Speaker 2: breakups just suck, like they're just awful, Like no matter
Speaker 2: how you slice it, they're just awful. But I have
Speaker 2: to say that because I had done so much cleanup
Speaker 2: work when my fiance broke up with me and really
Speaker 2: dealt with so much of the grief that I had
Speaker 2: never dealt with in my life, the divorce was actually
Speaker 2: a lot easier because there wasn't so much unprocessed, uncovered material.
Speaker 2: And that's what I've really learned with disappointment. I don't
Speaker 2: know if this is true for you, Eric too. It's like,
Speaker 2: as you kind of go through each one and you
Speaker 2: learn more tools and you process each one deeper, the
Speaker 2: length of time between disappointment gets longer and the time
Speaker 2: you spend really suffering and the disappointment gets shorter.
Speaker 3: Oh, I think absolutely, And I think that's the one thing.
Speaker 3: So I told you this, you know, I mentioned that
Speaker 3: with my with my ex and my son's mother and
Speaker 3: he was two years old, and she came home one
Speaker 3: day and said, oh, I'm I want you to leave
Speaker 3: the house. I'm in love with someone else. And I
Speaker 3: was just like, holy shit, And I mean my world
Speaker 3: really did fall apart, and a lot of it was
Speaker 3: you know, I wasn't going to be living with my son,
Speaker 3: and but I what I got to in that place
Speaker 3: was I had no choice but to process those emotions.
Speaker 3: I had nowhere to go. I think, partially being in recovery,
Speaker 3: I was like, well, I can't go do this and
Speaker 3: I can't go do that. And I did a lot
Speaker 3: of the things that are in your you know that
Speaker 3: you talk about in the book, the writing of I
Speaker 3: mean angry letter after angry letter after angry letter that
Speaker 3: just got thrown away. But the interesting thing was I
Speaker 3: felt like I, for the first time ever, I really
Speaker 3: worked all the way through that. And it's interesting now
Speaker 3: because I have a pretty good relationship with my ex
Speaker 3: and there is no hint of any bad feeling or
Speaker 3: anything there. It's like it's it's over. And that's an
Speaker 3: interesting experience to have something be so totally transformed. And
Speaker 3: it was I will not say, in any way, shape
Speaker 3: or form, that was enjoyable going through it. And I
Speaker 3: think if I could have thought of a way to
Speaker 3: avoid it, I probably would have, but I couldn't. I
Speaker 3: couldn't and so and when I read your book, it
Speaker 3: brought a lot of that back me thinking about how
Speaker 3: that was an example of me really processing emotion versus
Speaker 3: doing these different things. And maybe what I've done more recently,
Speaker 3: which is more of the spiritual bypass route.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and see, I love what you're saying because
Speaker 2: what it reminds me of is that, you know, the
Speaker 2: agenda of our ego and the desire of our soul
Speaker 2: are often in direct conflict. And our ego wants things
Speaker 2: like marriage, job, it wants form, it wants outcome, it
Speaker 2: wants to check things off a checklist. But all our
Speaker 2: soul kind of cares about is our evolution and our growth.
Speaker 2: And coming back to the parable for a moment, about
Speaker 2: the one you feed. You know, I think that most
Speaker 2: people in the personal transformation spiritual world would all agree that.
Speaker 2: You know, we all start out as love. We all
Speaker 2: start out totally connected to source energy, call it God,
Speaker 2: divine nature, call it whatever you want, but we're all
Speaker 2: kind of connected to this oneness, this love. We know
Speaker 2: we're whole, we're we know we're complete. And then things
Speaker 2: happen and we move into fear and judgment and shame
Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff. And so I think
Speaker 2: we have the constant choice again, coming back to choice,
Speaker 2: is are we going to feed love or are we
Speaker 2: going to feed fear? And oftentimes we have to go
Speaker 2: through these difficult, challenging times to get us back to love.
Speaker 2: And sometimes it takes a catalyst like a divorce or
Speaker 2: an addiction, or an illness or something like that to
Speaker 2: bring us to our knees enough to surrender, to stop
Speaker 2: clinging for safety, security, control, and to eventually move out
Speaker 2: of that fear and back into love. Because I think
Speaker 2: that like our true purpose here is to come back
Speaker 2: to how we started, you know, to come back to
Speaker 2: that place of wholeness, completeness, knowing that we're nothing's wrong
Speaker 2: with us, knowing that we're loved, knowing that we're lovable,
Speaker 2: knowing we're not broken, knowing we're enough independent of anything
Speaker 2: we create.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's a wonderful place to get to. So
Speaker 3: in the book you talk about you have a treatment
Speaker 3: plan that you talk about for going through these expectation hangovers,
Speaker 3: and it's a four step plan. You say, there's an
Speaker 3: and I think it's in order, right, emotional, then mental,
Speaker 3: then behavioral, and then spiritual. So could we spend a
Speaker 3: minute and kind of walk through each of those and
Speaker 3: then I have a question about the order?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, So my when I one of my first
Speaker 2: spiritual teachers and coaches, I met her when I was
Speaker 2: twenty two. Her name was Mona Miller, and she was she.
Speaker 2: She really called me out. She saw me with love,
Speaker 2: but also could see through all my bullshit. Oh sorry,
Speaker 2: I hope I can say that.
Speaker 3: Nope, I think I've sworn several times already, so I
Speaker 3: think we're good.
Speaker 2: Okay, good, So oh sorry about that. Let me just
Speaker 2: turn this off. So that's when I really first kind
Speaker 2: of learned myself as a multi dimensional being. You know,
Speaker 2: I think that for all of us, thinking is easy,
Speaker 2: but thinking and feeling are very different, as you said,
Speaker 2: and then thinking is great in terms of awareness, but
Speaker 2: awareness without action, without changing our behavior, means nothing. And
Speaker 2: then if we're just sort of these thinking, feeling, acting
Speaker 2: beings with no higher connection, then we never feel totally fulfilled.
Speaker 2: So that's why the you know, there's those four levels.
Speaker 2: So I'll just walk through a little bit of each one. So,
Speaker 2: like I said, we start on the emotional level of
Speaker 2: an expectation hangover because that's the one we don't want
Speaker 2: to deal with. That's what we want to avoid. And
Speaker 2: the treatment plan is really about learning how to release
Speaker 2: emotions rather than recycle them. So there's things you learn
Speaker 2: like release writing like which is a way of writing
Speaker 2: that isn't like journaling that you go back and reread,
Speaker 2: but is really about an emotional release, mind dumping, burning
Speaker 2: or ripping it up when you're done, just a way
Speaker 2: to skip emotion out. And the temper tantrum technique is
Speaker 2: definitely unique, but it's a way to actually let yourself
Speaker 2: have an adult version of a temper tantrum. And the
Speaker 2: reason why this is important is because you know, if
Speaker 2: you imagine a little kid and you see a kid
Speaker 2: have a temper tantrum, if you don't interrupt them, what
Speaker 2: ends up happening is first they get really something happens
Speaker 2: and they get upset, and then first the anger revs
Speaker 2: up and they may yell and scream and kick, and
Speaker 2: then they start crying really loud, and then the crying
Speaker 2: kind of turns to a whimper, and then the whimpering
Speaker 2: kind of turns to like, you know, shortness of breath
Speaker 2: and just kind of going, you know, and then eventually
Speaker 2: they start to rock themselves and they start to self soothe,
Speaker 2: and then they're totally out of it and they're fine
Speaker 2: and they want ice cream. And what they've done is
Speaker 2: they've learned how to ride the wave of emotion, and
Speaker 2: on every level emotional, mental, behavioral, and spiritual, I have.
Speaker 2: It's something called role playing our X, where you kind
Speaker 2: of embody a role to help you understand these tools.
Speaker 2: So on the emotional level, it's that of the surfer,
Speaker 2: and you really learn how to ride your emotions all
Speaker 2: the way to the beach without trying to dive off
Speaker 2: the board to control the waves or whatever. So that's
Speaker 2: that's you know, each section is pretty deep and rich.
Speaker 2: So I'm just kind of skimming the sea.
Speaker 3: They're an ice cream stand waiting for me on the beach.
Speaker 2: Yes, whatever your favorite flavor is, it's there, a waffle
Speaker 2: cone or in a cup, whatever you like, it's there.
Speaker 2: And then moving on to the mental level, the role
Speaker 2: playing o X on this level is that of the
Speaker 2: horseback rider. And you know we can we can't control
Speaker 2: every thought that comes in our mind is like a
Speaker 2: galloping horse, but we have dominion over the reins. We
Speaker 2: hold the rains. We can stop it, we can redirect it,
Speaker 2: we can slow it down, we can speed it up.
Speaker 2: So on the mental level, you're learning how to basically
Speaker 2: rewire your brain by watching normal thought patterns and changing
Speaker 2: the neural nets in your brains by creating new ones.
Speaker 2: There's also a lot of exercises to help you realize
Speaker 2: what your story is because we all have there's what's
Speaker 2: happened to us in our life, and then there's what
Speaker 2: we've made it mean, and we all have these stories
Speaker 2: that we carry around like backpacks and collect evidence that
Speaker 2: support our story, even if our story sucks. Like you
Speaker 2: could have a story about always getting rejected. Well, that's
Speaker 2: a really sucky story, but if you keep believing it
Speaker 2: and replaying it, then you're really gonna start collect collecting evidence,
Speaker 2: and your life is going to be about continual rejection.
Speaker 2: It's really about you know, what is the story you
Speaker 2: want to tell. And on the mental level, we also
Speaker 2: work with time travel, so past hacking and future tripping.
Speaker 2: We tend to go back in our past and do
Speaker 2: things like regret things and use information we have now
Speaker 2: to go back and analyze and beat ourselves up for
Speaker 2: things we didn't know in the past, which is not fair.
Speaker 2: And then we tend to future trip and come up
Speaker 2: with worth tase scenario thinking. So there's a lot about
Speaker 2: really using your mind as your servant, not your master.
Speaker 2: And if you're going to go back to the past,
Speaker 2: go back from the perspective of what can you learn
Speaker 2: and if you're going to go in the future, at
Speaker 2: least make it good. You know, we're making up the
Speaker 2: future anyway, so like, at least make it something you want.
Speaker 2: And then we get to the behavioral level, which is,
Speaker 2: you know, awareness for that action is nothing. It's just
Speaker 2: sort of like entertainment. And you start to look at
Speaker 2: what has driven behavior in the past, and you learn
Speaker 2: about things like what's been your compensatory strategy. You know,
Speaker 2: what's been the thing that you've gotten really good at
Speaker 2: that isn't necessarily good for you. Most compensatory strategies come
Speaker 2: from a wounded place, like, for example, I was bullied
Speaker 2: and teased a lot growing up as a kid. I
Speaker 2: formed the belief that I was not likable, something was
Speaker 2: wrong with me. To compensate for that, to make up
Speaker 2: where I felt less. Then I became a severe overachiever,
Speaker 2: which made me successful in life. But since it was
Speaker 2: driven by massive insecurity, it was never fulfilling. So you
Speaker 2: start to look at behavior that has maybe has made
Speaker 2: you successful or made you well liked, or made you
Speaker 2: feel safe, but isn't necessarily creating the results in terms
Speaker 2: of the feelings that you want experience. And you also
Speaker 2: look at your avoidance trap in terms of what you
Speaker 2: spend a lot of time and energy invested in avoiding,
Speaker 2: Like do you avoid rejection? Do you avoide judgment? Do
Speaker 2: you avoid upsetting people? Do you avoid feeling out of control?
Speaker 2: And how does that step you from taking action in
Speaker 2: your life? And then finally, on the spiritual level, you
Speaker 2: start to look at your life. Oh and on the
Speaker 2: behavioral level, you take on the role as a scientist,
Speaker 2: so you start observing yourself rather than judging yourself. And
Speaker 2: then finally on the spiritual level, you become the seeker
Speaker 2: and you start to look at your life lessons and
Speaker 2: you start to move into things like prayer and performance
Speaker 2: of meditation and surrender and forgiveness. I would say forgiveness
Speaker 2: is probably the most powerful tool on the spiritual level,
Speaker 2: because forgiveness doesn't mean condoning anything, It doesn't mean making
Speaker 2: things okay, it doesn't mean agreement, but it does mean
Speaker 2: letting go of the judgments that we're carrying around inside.
Speaker 2: And that truly is what sets us free, and I
Speaker 2: think what opens us up to our dharma to our
Speaker 2: purpose to really truly being guided. So that was it.
Speaker 2: That's a brief tour.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a brief tour. And I can say
Speaker 3: from having been through the book there is a lot
Speaker 3: of detail on each of those things, and you've got
Speaker 3: a lot of exercises in there and different meditations and
Speaker 3: different things to use to work through that. I'm interested,
Speaker 3: I said, I had a question about the order. What
Speaker 3: I always find interesting is I think, obviously for a plan,
Speaker 3: you have to have an order of things to go through.
Speaker 3: What I always find so interesting is the dynamic between
Speaker 3: those four areas and how in some ways the interplay,
Speaker 3: like what I'm thinking can affect how I'm feeling, how
Speaker 3: I'm behaving, can act how I'm thinking, and all those
Speaker 3: Because a quote that I use often as you you
Speaker 3: can't think your way into right action. You have to
Speaker 3: act your way into into right thinking in some cases,
Speaker 3: which is which is just a slightly different take. But
Speaker 3: I really like where you start with the emotional piece
Speaker 3: because I agree. I think that is the part A
Speaker 3: that we try and avoid and B that's the part
Speaker 3: that sets off the emotional hangover. It's an emotional yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know there's there's not a lot out
Speaker 2: there in terms of how to teach us how to
Speaker 2: deal with our feelings. There's so much out there about
Speaker 2: manifesting and manipulating our mind. I think we're so mentally
Speaker 2: stimulated and mentally obsessed that we've really got to get
Speaker 2: back into ourselves as feeling people, you know, And that's
Speaker 2: part of the human experience. And even even you know,
Speaker 2: kind of with the movement to spirituality, which I love.
Speaker 2: I consider myself a spiritual person. We can't go to
Speaker 2: spiritual bypass either. You can't just chant mantra as the
Speaker 2: rest of your life and expect to deal with deep
Speaker 2: anger and shame from your childhood. You've got to do
Speaker 2: a little investing on the emotional level in order to
Speaker 2: really clear that. You know. That's just been my experience
Speaker 2: personally and working with thousands of people at this point,
Speaker 2: is eventually you've got to feel your feelings.
Speaker 3: I've more and more been thinking we end up talking
Speaker 3: on this show about depression a fair amount. It's something
Speaker 3: I've wrestled with on and off in the past that
Speaker 3: I know a lot of our listeners have, and I've
Speaker 3: more and more become convinced that it's a you really
Speaker 3: have to have a holistic approach to it. That really
Speaker 3: and these four areas that you laid out pretty much
Speaker 3: cover that. What that means. There's it's not enough to
Speaker 3: just take care of the mental aspect of it, although
Speaker 3: it's critical to have the mental aspect of it, because
Speaker 3: and you talk about it in your book, this idea
Speaker 3: of ruminating about you know, thinking about the same things
Speaker 3: over and over again can drive us into really negative
Speaker 3: emotional spaces. So there's there's that interaction there. But I
Speaker 3: more and more become convinced that it's you need all
Speaker 3: of this working in concert together.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I Eric got put on prozac when
Speaker 2: I was ten years old, and I was on antidepressants
Speaker 2: until about thirty, so twenty years of my life. I
Speaker 2: was kind of numb. And part of my mission, you know,
Speaker 2: my big mission is to help you suffering on the
Speaker 2: planet in whatever way I can. And you know, a
Speaker 2: sub part of that mission is really bringing light to depression,
Speaker 2: because I think depression is often a result of suppression
Speaker 2: and repression, and most people that are depressed are and medicated.
Speaker 2: A lot of them don't even need it, but they
Speaker 2: need their emotion, they need their creativity unlocked. They need
Speaker 2: to be given a way to feel again. And so
Speaker 2: much of my own journey coming off the antidepressants and
Speaker 2: really healing depression inside myself because it's not something that
Speaker 2: I suffer from anymore. And ps I was told my
Speaker 2: whole life, you will always need medication. This is just
Speaker 2: the way you're wired, and this is just how it is.
Speaker 2: So I had all of that kind of belief system
Speaker 2: seated inside of me, and a huge part of finally
Speaker 2: being able to get through it and get to the
Speaker 2: other side of it was being willing to go into
Speaker 2: those really scary feelings and finally feel all of those
Speaker 2: things that I was so terrified to feel. And it
Speaker 2: was dark and it was hard, but I will tell
Speaker 2: you that once I went into that and got through it,
Speaker 2: it's like something released, you know. So for anyone out there,
Speaker 2: I'm not here to say medication is good, bad, right, wrong, whatever,
Speaker 2: Like everybody has to trust their own intuition and the
Speaker 2: people that care for them. But for anyone who may
Speaker 2: be suffering from, you know, either diagnosed depression or you
Speaker 2: just kind of feel depressed and sad, there is another
Speaker 2: there is another side to that, and so just keep going,
Speaker 2: keep going.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the medication topic is a really interesting one because
Speaker 3: it certainly has been a huge help to me and
Speaker 3: a lot of people that I know. And yet the
Speaker 3: question does become is it something that you how long
Speaker 3: do you need to continue? And is that medicine causing
Speaker 3: a numbing effect to some degree? I think that's something
Speaker 3: that people who are on depression medication, myself included, I
Speaker 3: wonder often about is there a numbing element to that
Speaker 3: and how significant is that? And that's why I get
Speaker 3: back to sort of this idea of a holistic plan.
Speaker 3: And I didn't actually start taking medicine for myself until
Speaker 3: I had really done. I was doing all that stuff,
Speaker 3: all the emotional stuff, really working deeply with what was
Speaker 3: happening when I was a kid. I was finally taking
Speaker 3: good physical care of myself. I was, I was meditating.
Speaker 3: I was like and I still feel awful and so,
Speaker 3: and then you know, the medicine sort of changed that,
Speaker 3: But things evolve over time. I just think it's a
Speaker 3: very interesting concept. But I think that we had a
Speaker 3: guest on last week, John Roderman, who's a he's a
Speaker 3: professor in Florida, and he talks a lot about depression,
Speaker 3: and he talks about depression being an evolutionary adaptation and
Speaker 3: that it's it's and he's in general his general sense is, look,
Speaker 3: it's not it's not enough to just give people medicine
Speaker 3: and send them home. And that's what I'm pretty much,
Speaker 3: very much amazed by these days is how often that
Speaker 3: is the only answer that people are given.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and and I think that again, like the
Speaker 2: personal thing, and I will say, the thing that was
Speaker 2: myker I guess you'd say, or lifeline through it. And
Speaker 2: what finally got me off is that what a spiritual
Speaker 2: connection like that? That kind of nurturing, that relationship with
Speaker 2: a higher power and faith is what got me kind
Speaker 2: of was that final step. You know, I'd done the
Speaker 2: herbs and diet and all that kind of stuff, but
Speaker 2: that having a relationship with a higher power and experiencing
Speaker 2: myself as a spiritual being, I would say, was the
Speaker 2: missing link for me personally.
Speaker 3: Interesting. So you say you don't, you don't suffer from
Speaker 3: it anymore? Do you find that you you cycle through
Speaker 3: emotion or mood or you are you fairly steady at
Speaker 3: this point.
Speaker 4: I'm a woman. I'm not steady, all.
Speaker 3: Right, That's I was going to leave that aside.
Speaker 2: But and I'm a human, you know, so I would
Speaker 2: I here's the thing. I'm really good at using my tools.
Speaker 2: I definitely have moods, I definitely have down times. I
Speaker 2: definitely have my own expectation hangovers. But I am much
Speaker 2: better at using my tools. And I'm much better at
Speaker 2: asking for help too, you know, realizing I have a
Speaker 2: support system around me. Realize I have friends and teachers
Speaker 2: and mentors and communities that I can lean on in
Speaker 2: those moments. And then I have my spiritual foundation as well.
Speaker 2: So I would say that absolutely, I still have my moments,
Speaker 2: but I never feel depressed. If I ever kind of
Speaker 2: start to feel depressed, I know I'm suppressing something. I
Speaker 2: know I need a good like yell. You know, I
Speaker 2: know I need to go box, or I know I
Speaker 2: need a good cry, or I know I need to
Speaker 2: just go dance and move my body or do something creative.
Speaker 2: So anytime I start to feel that remnants of depression,
Speaker 2: it means something needs to move.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really interesting way to think about it,
Speaker 3: because the thing that is so tricky about depression, I
Speaker 3: think is that it's a lack of feeling by and
Speaker 3: large right, it's not a Sadness is a whole different animal.
Speaker 3: Depression is that sort of deadness and that emptiness, and
Speaker 3: it's it's very difficult to say, oh, it's because of X,
Speaker 3: because that doesn't feel like it's because of X. And
Speaker 3: I think your point is that stuff just builds up
Speaker 3: over time and over time, and in a lot of
Speaker 3: cases that that suppression or that repression happened to a
Speaker 3: complete it's very it happened so long ago or in
Speaker 3: such different circumstances, it's very difficult to tie those things together.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what makes can make depression such
Speaker 3: a challenge, because being angry or being sad, it's easy
Speaker 3: to find those Oh I'm angry because I'm sad, because largely,
Speaker 3: whereas depression is like, I don't there's no emotional now,
Speaker 3: a lot of times there's an event that kicks it off, right,
Speaker 3: you go, oh, I'm I start to become depressed because
Speaker 3: you know, I lost my job, and then we can
Speaker 3: sort of see how it flows. But I think for
Speaker 3: people who've been in it a long time, it's so nebulous.
Speaker 2: Yes, totally totally, it's it's and I think that that's
Speaker 2: that's when the self judgment kicks in big time. That's right,
Speaker 2: of why am I feeling this way? What's wrong with me?
Speaker 2: I'm pathetic, which just makes it worse. So I think
Speaker 2: another huge lesson I would say that that people that
Speaker 2: suffer from depression are often high achievers and are often
Speaker 2: people that are really hard on themselves and think being
Speaker 2: hard on themselves is an effective way to kind of
Speaker 2: motivate themselves, which is so not true. And another huge
Speaker 2: lesson that came from my depression was self compassion. I'm
Speaker 2: really learning how to be with myself in a gentle,
Speaker 2: loving way and not be so freaking hard on myself.
Speaker 3: That makes a huge difference. The other thing you talked
Speaker 3: about that I thought was really important, with talking about
Speaker 3: asking for help and having friends and a support group
Speaker 3: and various things like that, because I heard somebody say recently.
Speaker 3: It was in the interview that we just put out
Speaker 3: today where the quote I think was loneliness masquerading this depression,
Speaker 3: that it's that that can be such a catalyst that
Speaker 3: it's very those those two things show up symptomatically, so similarly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they really do. Loneliness is is brutal and
Speaker 2: it's even like being in a group of people and
Speaker 2: feeling lonely.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the Yeah, that's the worst, the worst.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep. So I think we're nearing the end of
Speaker 3: our time. But I did want to talk with you
Speaker 3: about one other part in the book that really struck me.
Speaker 3: And you talk about the difference you talk about form
Speaker 3: versus essence. Can you explain what you mean by that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the kind of the thing that that
Speaker 2: I learned. So my first my first job was an agent.
Speaker 2: I was a Hollywood agent, and I would like the
Speaker 2: youngest ever female agent, and I was I was really, really,
Speaker 2: really successful at a young age. And I, you know,
Speaker 2: no matter what promotion I got, or you know, how
Speaker 2: much more money I made, it was like I still
Speaker 2: wasn't getting the feeling that I wanted. I still wasn't
Speaker 2: feeling fulfilled. I wasn't feeling happy, I wasn't feeling on purpose.
Speaker 2: And like I shared earlier, I was mostly driven by insecurity,
Speaker 2: you know, and was looking for something that would finally
Speaker 2: make me feel good about myself. And I kept attaching
Speaker 2: different forms to it, like be a successful agent, make
Speaker 2: this much money, date this person, have this size figure,
Speaker 2: like whatever it may be, I kept looking for the
Speaker 2: thing to make me feel that way, versus realizing that
Speaker 2: it was really the feeling I was after and not
Speaker 2: the thing. So form versus essence means we all have
Speaker 2: certain desires, we all have ways we want to feel,
Speaker 2: things we want to experience, and because the mind like
Speaker 2: certainty and the mind likes to know, it attaches a
Speaker 2: form onto that and then we become obsessed with that
Speaker 2: form versus really letting the essence lead us. So I'll
Speaker 2: give an example. Are most of your listeners women are men?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think it's a pretty fair mix.
Speaker 3: I can only go by the people who get in
Speaker 3: touch with us, and based on that, it's it seems
Speaker 3: like to be pretty even split.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll give an example that that's a female example,
Speaker 2: but I think men will really get it as well
Speaker 2: as a good form versus essence. So, most women feel
Speaker 2: the desire to have a baby. But really, and I've
Speaker 2: talked to a lot of women about this, what they're
Speaker 2: feeling is the desire to create, the desire to give
Speaker 2: birth things, the desire to experience unconditional love, to nurture,
Speaker 2: to take care of, to mother, and they attach to
Speaker 2: that that's the form. Boom, this must be what I want.
Speaker 2: If I'm feeling this feeling, that must be what I want.
Speaker 2: But I've challenged women, and I've had pretty honest conversations
Speaker 2: with women, and what I've seen in my own life
Speaker 2: is and with other women, is that it's not necessarily
Speaker 2: quote unquote baby, that's just the form. There's lots of
Speaker 2: ways that essence can be satisfied. Like for me, I
Speaker 2: don't have children, but I feel like my mothering essence
Speaker 2: is satisfied in creating books and nurturing people and coaching
Speaker 2: people and facilitating and having lots of creative expression in
Speaker 2: my life. And so I think that's another lesson that
Speaker 2: expectation hangovers teach us, is that we definitely can have
Speaker 2: everything we desire in terms of feeling, in terms of essence,
Speaker 2: it just might not come in the form or the
Speaker 2: package that we thought it would.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that is such a profound understand And
Speaker 3: I had an interview several weeks back. I think you
Speaker 3: quote her somewhere in your book, Danielle Laporte and her
Speaker 3: book The Desire Map. Thing that struck me about that
Speaker 3: was sort of exactly that same thing which says, look,
Speaker 3: think about how you want to feel, start there and
Speaker 3: and work your way through. And most of us do
Speaker 3: exactly the opposite. And I I do it and have
Speaker 3: done it, you know, my whole life, which is leads
Speaker 3: to that expectation hangover of oh I got what I
Speaker 3: wanted and I don't feel any different, and instead of
Speaker 3: questioning that whole mentality, it's you. My My train of
Speaker 3: thought has always been, oh, well, it's just not enough
Speaker 3: of that thing. I thought that if I had a
Speaker 3: girlfriend that I would be happy. Well, now I've got
Speaker 3: the girlfriend, and well she just must not be a
Speaker 3: good enough girlfriend. Right, It's not it's not the it's
Speaker 3: not the whole process that I'm thinking. And I really
Speaker 3: love that idea of starting with how we want to
Speaker 3: feel and making that the focus and then trying to
Speaker 3: sort of piece together being a lot more open to
Speaker 3: what that what the form? Uh is? I just that's
Speaker 3: such a profound, profoundly different way of looking at the world.
Speaker 3: And I really like the way you put that as
Speaker 3: form versus essence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we can and then we can realize
Speaker 2: we can generate that right now, you know, like we
Speaker 2: we can create experientially the feeling we would like to feel,
Speaker 2: and the more we live in that feeling, the more
Speaker 2: we attract.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: That's how a law of attraction really works. You know,
Speaker 2: That's how we attract those things that are in alignment
Speaker 2: with that feeling.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: So it's sort of like, you know, single people are like, wow,
Speaker 2: you know, I always find someone when I wasn't looking.
Speaker 2: You know, I was dating for years and then I
Speaker 2: finally just loved my life and stop looking and stop caring,
Speaker 2: and boom, you know, I met my partner. And that's
Speaker 2: just one example of how, you know, when when we're
Speaker 2: just in the wholeness and completeness and we're in like
Speaker 2: nothing's missing and we're in kind of the feeling that
Speaker 2: we want to feel, then then we naturally attract those
Speaker 2: things that align with that.
Speaker 3: I agree one hundred percent. And it's like I keep
Speaker 3: thinking I need a better podcast partner, but the truth
Speaker 3: is I just want to feel more supported. So all right,
Speaker 3: Chris's correct, All right, Oh, it would be terri. This
Speaker 3: show would have been off the air like by the
Speaker 3: fourth weeks. It was a technology helped us out when
Speaker 3: it didn't allow us to have a second microphone in here.
Speaker 2: That's hysterical. I see the Chris and Eric show coming soon.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, well, I think, like I said, we are
Speaker 3: we are near the end of our time. But thank
Speaker 3: you so much for taking the time to talk with us.
Speaker 3: I really liked the book and I've had a great
Speaker 3: time talking with you.
Speaker 2: Oh I've had a great time with you too. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much for having me on, for reading the
Speaker 2: book and just doing the work that you do in
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 3: All right, well, thanks so much. We'll we'll talk again soon.
Speaker 4: Okay, thanks bye.
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