1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Suglas. Julie, 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: we were just talking before this podcast about the George 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: Michael video for Freedom. It's good stuff. Yeah, yeah, I don't, 6 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: I don't ever. I just remember seeing it on TV 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,599 Speaker 1: back in the old days, when you know, I had 8 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: nothing better to do than to watch lots and lots 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: of MTV. I think it's vintage nineties, isn't it. Yeah, yeah, 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: it was definitely vintage nineties. That would have been about 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: the right time frame. But it was, as I remember, 12 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: a pretty sexy video. And they're all sorts of sexy 13 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,959 Speaker 1: things going on in it, and uh and and at 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: one point George Michael writes a word on the back 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: of his wife's or girlfriend's back, right, yeah, actually his 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: then girlfriend's back, and the message is monogamy. And it's 17 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: interesting because, as you say, it's a very sexy video, 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who are um seem 19 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: to be expressing their sexual liberation right, which which in 20 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: a sense George Michael would do later for real. And 21 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: it's different context yeah. Uh, not not a boudoir, but 22 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: at least to the American public, it would be in 23 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: a stall, which is fine. Whatever. The point is is 24 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: that the video is interesting because it seems to be 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: about sexual liberation and yet they bring up the point 26 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: of monogamy, right, Yeah, and what is the relationship actually 27 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: between these two things. Not that we're saying that George 28 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: Michael video from the early nineties has to really have 29 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: a compact, solid message about the way the world works, 30 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: but it's fascinating in a light of this podcast where 31 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: we were discussing the topic of monogamy, yeah, which we 32 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: actually decided that we would dedicate a whole podcast too, 33 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: because we recently recorded um a podcast about same sex 34 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: pairings in the animal world or a game animals if 35 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: you read animals, right, which again carries a lot of 36 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: uh you know, anthropomorphic package with it. Yeah. And it 37 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: was interesting because we we were talking about the las 38 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: and albatrosses in oah Who, Hawaii, andty three of that 39 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: population is actually same sex female female pairings. And some 40 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: of these albatrosses or these birds have been together since 41 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: they started studying them nineteen years previous to so it 42 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 1: could have been that these birds work together for much 43 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: longer than that. But the point is just that monogamy 44 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: seems to be in nature, it seems to be in 45 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: different species, and humans really try hard, I think to 46 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: be monogamous. I'm try harder than others. This is true, um, 47 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: but we're not always very successful. So we want to 48 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: talk about that today, right, so animals, let me just 49 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: run through a few favorite examples of monogamous creatures. You 50 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: have given apes. You have wolves, termites, couties, barnet owls, beavers, 51 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: bald eagles, golden eagles, condor swan, broga cranes, sandhill cranes, pigeons, 52 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: red tailed hawks, black vultures, and apparently three percent of 53 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: the four thousand metal species are monogamous. Of course, Homo 54 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,239 Speaker 1: sapiens aren't on that list, but we'll discuss that a 55 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: little more as we go. Some of the examples that 56 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: I came across in the researcher were pretty pretty interesting. 57 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: The black vultures, for instance, discourage infidelity. All nearby vultures 58 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: attack any vulture caught philandering, and that was interesting. For 59 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: all their disgusting corpse seating there, they're they're strict moralists. 60 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: For me, one of the most amazing examples of the 61 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: mate for life species is easily the angler fish. To 62 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: refresh that, it's about the size of a teacup deep 63 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: sea animal, frightening horror show jaws with big teeth and 64 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: a lighted lure that hangs in front of its face. 65 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: It's one of those. It's like one of the favorite 66 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: deep sea fish of all like ten year old boys. 67 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: So that kind of has like a lantern. Yeah, it 68 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: has like a little lantern in front of it, and 69 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: then idea is it attracts fish and then it eats 70 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: it with its frightening jaws. So you have the female, right, 71 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: and then you have the male who's kind of a 72 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: little guy. And what he'll do is he'll come up 73 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: and he'll he will latch on to the back of 74 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: the female, but it's with his sharp teeth, all right, 75 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: and then he just keeps hanging on. Gradually he grows 76 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: into the female, like physically his skin grows into hers. 77 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: The fuse together. He ends up getting his food through 78 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: a common blood supply, His eyeballs atrophy, his his organs 79 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: waste away, and he eventually becomes a sperm producing organ. 80 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: Like the only thing that really stays intact or the testes, 81 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: so he mates for life, but it's it's really hard 82 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: to imagine. Yeah, it's because he's fused to her physically 83 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: and they become a single organism basically, and so you know, 84 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: it's up in the air whether that is a life 85 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: worth living. Yeah, I mean talk about loss of identity 86 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: and a committed relationship. In a sense, it's like like 87 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: two reactions to it. To really anthrom Morphies, It's like, 88 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: on one hand, the male Engler fish is kind of 89 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: like the ultimate do nothing husband. You know, we're always 90 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 1: he's there. It's just his He's just a pair of 91 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: testes that's feeding off of her. But then on the 92 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: other hand, it's like a he's kind of put in 93 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: his place, like all right, like he's he may not 94 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: have any other purpose, so he's just reduced to his 95 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: his one thing and just becomes basically an organ. I 96 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: was to say, it doesn't even he can't even get away, 97 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: he can't even have some me time. Um, yeah, that's amazing. Well, 98 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: this isn't quite as traumatic that I wanted to talk about. 99 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: Prairie voles, Okay, because these guys of North American prairie 100 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: vowlts spend their entire adult life with one partner, and 101 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: researchers thought that was pretty interesting. He wanted to get 102 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: in the mind, so to speak, of these prai volts 103 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: and try to figure out what made them so monogamous. 104 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: And it turns out that the monogamous males have high 105 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: levels of the hormone vassa prison in their brains, and 106 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: promiscuous male bowls have a low level of vasa prison 107 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: in theirs. And so what they began to think is that, well, 108 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: perhaps this is a good explanation, this high level of 109 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: basic person in males. What about humans? And it can't 110 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: It's not really an apples to apples things some people 111 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: like to extrapolate and say, well, maybe that's the same 112 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: thing with with humans. Um uh. And while voles are 113 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: social creatures like humans, they do have a very different 114 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: brain from ours. That's pretty obvious. And in particular, periy 115 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: vols brains are studied with receptors for vasa prison and oxytocin, 116 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: and that's really what results in that high pair bonding instance. 117 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: Um So, I think it's interesting. Again, I feel like 118 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: people extrapolate those results sometimes and try to say that 119 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: humans have the same situation going on since we also 120 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: have basic person in oxytocin. But you know, it's hard 121 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: to say at least the jury is out. But the 122 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: idea is, especially with the voles, is it's this bonding 123 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: that's taking place and it's resulting favorable chemicals in the brain. 124 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: It's almost like a drug to them exactly. That's the 125 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: they're part of. The reward center is going nuts every 126 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: time they get a little oxytose in the based person. So, yeah, 127 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: that makes sense that they would want to stay in 128 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: a you know, for lack of other terms, a committed 129 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: relationship because they're getting something out of it. And in fact, 130 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: if you look at number of the North American Poles 131 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: are monogamous, then that bears out this whole idea that 132 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: they're getting something out of it. But according to the 133 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: Population Reference Bureau, the probability of an adult a human 134 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: getting married um and and presumably being monogamous at some 135 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: point during their life is still nearly But the problem 136 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: here is the of these marriages and then divorce, which 137 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: points to this this whole idea that we really do 138 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: want to be monogamous. Maybe there are benefits for us 139 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: which will discuss, but again we're still not great at it. 140 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: We'll just leave this to another animal, that being them 141 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: the gray lag goose. Yes, yeah, also another highly social creature. 142 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: Researchers that Austria's Conrad Lorenz Research Station found that while 143 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,559 Speaker 1: some birds, some of these birds remained calm and flight, 144 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: others were extremely stressed. And they wanted to find out, 145 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: and they implanted heart rate monitors in twenty five of 146 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: the geese, and they found that the geese who were 147 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: in monogamous relationships I guess you could say, had heart 148 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: rates about ten percent lower during flights than the heart 149 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: rates of single birds here right, And again again it's 150 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: not apple staffles with humans. You can't say it works 151 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: with these geese. So this must be what's going on 152 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: in humans. But it is interesting to look at that 153 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: there they are less stressed out there and they're not 154 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: you know, I mean they know what they're doing that 155 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: evening right, Yeah, exactly pizza in a movie. But also 156 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: this is interesting. While resting, the female heart rates rose 157 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: when their mates were more than a few feet away, 158 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: but stressed them was lowered when their mates returned. And 159 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: this is from Claudio posture. She's an ethologist at Austria's 160 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: research station, the Austria Konrad Lawrence. She said, an increase 161 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: in heart rate is an investment. You'll have more energy available. 162 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: But if you don't do that, if you're in safe mode, 163 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: you'll save more energy which could have a long term 164 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: advantage for you. So in the animal world this makes sense. 165 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 1: If you're pairing up, you're probably you know, uh, safer right, 166 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: safer in numbers, and you don't have to expend a 167 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: lot of energy looking behind your back right. Well, you know, 168 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: even on a you know, on a human level, it's 169 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: like people who are paired up, they can sort of 170 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: double team problems. Um, you know that, and you can 171 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: let your guard down a little know on the other 172 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: person's looking out. I guess, I guess we don't. We 173 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: don't we tend not to sleep in shifts in human relationships. 174 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: You don't know? Oh yeah, I don't either. It would 175 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: be weird. Um, but yeah, I mean, there's there's a 176 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: lot of data out there that says that people are 177 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: on couples. Men and women who are married tend to 178 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: live longer, especially men. And some of this though, they'll 179 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: eat to the social network, social support system that's in 180 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: place that helps to reduce stress and helps to bulster 181 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: up your immune system. Actually, so in humans, there are 182 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: definitely reasons where you can see what this would be 183 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: an advantage to become part of a monogamous pair. Huh, 184 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: But then why I stop there? Why marry one person? 185 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: Why not marry several and then just read the benefits? 186 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: Oh well, we'll talk about this right after your break. 187 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: All right, we're back, and uh, we've been talking about 188 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: I mean, the podcast is about monogamy, but in attempt 189 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: to understand monogamy, we have to discuss its opposite number. 190 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: That's right, and more specifically polygyny, which is different from 191 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: polygamy in the sense that polygony is based on one 192 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: male with several females, right, Polyamory is a whole another 193 00:10:55,679 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: thing here. Polyamory is many different people participating in different 194 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: configurations of relationships. There are actually usually monogamous. But just 195 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: wanted to point that out that we're talking more about 196 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: polygyny here. In a paper called The Puzzle of Monogamous Marriage, 197 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: authors Joseph Henrich, Robert Boyd, and Peter J. Richardson said 198 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: that they wanted to try to get to the bottom 199 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: of why we are not exclusively a polygynous society, you know, 200 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: in all cultures across the world. And they say that 201 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: the anthropological record indicates that historically, approximately eight of human 202 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: societies have permitted men to more than one wife, and 203 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: both empirical and evolutionary considerations suggests that large absolute differences 204 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: in wealth should favor more poligionious marriages. Yet monogamous marriages 205 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 1: have spread across Europe and more recently across the globe, 206 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: even as absolute wealth differences have expanded. They wanted to 207 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: know why because it seems on paper like, why wouldn't 208 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: you just have a poligonous societ? Right? Those were the stakes. Yeah, 209 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: And why why doesn't someone like Donald Trump have just 210 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: multiple multiple wives? Right, I mean at one time as 211 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 1: opposed to serious right, right? Yeah? And that's particularly the 212 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: case with powerful men, right because the more wives, more 213 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 1: wealth uh u mss, the more stature. And some people 214 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: would say that women would be attracted to that powerful 215 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: man and would want to align in that configuration of 216 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 1: polignous marriage because you would reap the benefits of that. 217 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: It's just from slate dot COM's is polygamy really so awful? 218 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: Women are usually thought of as the primary victims of 219 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: polignous marriages, but as cultural anthropologist Joe Henrich the guy 220 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: we started talking about documents, the institution also causes problems 221 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: for the young, low status males, denied wives by older 222 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: wealthy men who have hoarded off women, and those young 223 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: men create problems for everybody. Yeah, so we're getting to 224 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: the meat of it right here. Well I can I 225 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: can't help, but I'm sure a lot of people have 226 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: already are already thinking of the HBO series Big Love, 227 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: which dealt with this kind of situation among an offshoot 228 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: of mainstream Mormons, a fictional group in this particular TV series. 229 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: But you see that even in this the show, which 230 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: I found the first few seasons rather enjoyable of character 231 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: development standpoint, But you would have like one individual, like 232 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: the villain of the show, has multiple lives of varying ages, 233 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: and then at times the younger men are not I mean, 234 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: they end up having to leave because they don't have 235 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: the opportunity to claim a wife. So you end up 236 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: having like wife monopolization by the older members of a society. 237 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: Exactly right there, there's a dearth of women available, and 238 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: hen Rich and Boyd and Richardson say that when you 239 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: have unmarried men and you have a scarcity of women, um, 240 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: that is correlated with increased rates of rape, fact murder, 241 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: and substance abuse. Right because on one lover, you're gonna 242 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: you're level to uh partake of more risky behavior because 243 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: you don't have as much at stake. You know, you 244 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: don't have this, you don't have an vestment in family, 245 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: an investment in family, you don't have investment in children. 246 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: You probably don't have like a well decorated house or anything. 247 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,959 Speaker 1: You know, uh, you know it's the toilet is probably disgusting. 248 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: All these things. And and then I suppose you are 249 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: really focused on climbing up the ladder, you're going to 250 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: be more willing to take those risks to get the 251 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: kind of financial footing that you would be required to 252 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: claim one of these lovely ladies. That's right, you may 253 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: steal right to try to accumulate wealth. Um. Also, they 254 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: said that these guys would engage in crimes to not 255 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: only just a math enough wealth to attract women, but 256 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: also kidnap other men's wives, which saying that here in 257 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: the United States seems kind of crazy to say that 258 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: out loud unless you're talking about bora. But um, you 259 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: know this is is another instance why this doesn't really 260 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: work across the scales, although there are some instances where 261 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: a plug in as society could work. We know that 262 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: of the most community in China, um, and that is 263 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: a matriarchal society. And that's one where I don't know 264 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: if you would call it we actually wouldn't even call 265 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: it polygionist, very polygamous. But in that society, women have 266 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: decided that they won't pair with men. They will have 267 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: sex with men or even relationships or or have a 268 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: mate in a man, but that man does not live 269 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: with them. Um, if they have children with that man, 270 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: he does not raise them. In that society, men are 271 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: more useful as uncles. So the uncle's actually helped to 272 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: raise the children and not that the actual um father 273 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: of those children. And it's a very peaceful society. And 274 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: um it's become a bit of a something for for 275 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: tourists to to sort of ugle. But's but speaking of 276 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: the of the children's interesting, some of these studies we're 277 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: looking at the dealt with the the effect on the 278 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: children in these situations like that. More related to the 279 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: amount of attention they can get and how much how 280 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: much time has spent on the children in a poligonius 281 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: family versus a monogamous family. Yeah, yeah, children definitely suffer 282 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: in this scenario. Henrich cites a study of nineteenth century 283 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: Mormon households and forty five of them are headed by 284 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: wealthy men, generally with multiple wives, and forty five are 285 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: headed by poor men, generally with one wife. And what 286 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: they found is that the children of the poor men 287 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: with one wife actually feared a lot better than the 288 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: wealthy polgynous fathers. And the reason is that they think 289 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: that those even though they are wealthy and they had resources, 290 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: they were still spread thin the the pollagonius fathers, and 291 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: they weren't able to invest that much time in their children. Right. 292 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: I mean, if there's just the one, it's easy to say, yeah, 293 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: I'll be at your karate practice. But if they're like 294 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: fourteen of them, you might not make a single karate practice, right. 295 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: And and this is so important in children's development, but 296 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: even with their language skills, is to have that one 297 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: on one time with their parents in order to get 298 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: a hold on, you know, the building blocks of the world. 299 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: So if you don't have that attachment to your parents, 300 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: then it's possible that you would have some um issues 301 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: and actually developing. And what they found is that the 302 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: pork is actually live longer than the wealthy kids. And 303 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: then the other part of this too is that you 304 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: have women kind of getting the short stick and poligonous marriages. Um, 305 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,479 Speaker 1: that would seem obvious right right, because there they end 306 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: up they're sort of traded off at a very young 307 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: age two older men. They're they're treated like a commodity 308 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: as opposed to an individual in these cases. And and 309 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: I mean you can just easily imagine like it's going 310 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: to be a rare sixteen or even like eighteen year 311 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: old it's going to really have the like, the the 312 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 1: assurance to really stand up a to uh an older 313 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: older man in one of these societies. But then and 314 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: then be two other women that are already a part 315 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: of that family. That's true that one of the studies 316 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: we were looking at actually pointing out the like in 317 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: a In the particular study, there were there were no 318 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: examples of sister wives the lack of a better word, 319 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: the TLC show that you're referring to, Yeah, well, I 320 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: mean I think sister wife was the term, the term 321 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: but um, but there were no examples of the sister 322 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: wives all getting along well, like like the situation tended 323 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: to breed a certain amount of contempt among the ladies, 324 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,719 Speaker 1: that's right, they said. Henrich said that an ethnographic surveys 325 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: of sixty nine polygamous cultures, they reveal no case or 326 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: no cases where cowife relations could be described as harmonious, 327 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: which again would makes sense because everybody's trying to uy 328 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: for resources and time. So you know, I don't think 329 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: everybody's sitting around come each other's hair, um and and 330 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: singing come buy. I yeah, but then again, I mean 331 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: I also can't help but you know, I mean, having 332 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: not analyzed that study in enormous detail, but you know 333 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: what relationship is could be described as when everything her harmonious, 334 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: you know. So it's like, are they applying a separate 335 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: standard to these, uh, these these families, and they that 336 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be applying to a study of the monogamous. 337 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: Well see, And now to go back to monoga's relationships, 338 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: particularly in the United States where the divorce rate is 339 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: so high, there are a lot of psychologists that will 340 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: point to this and say, uh, the reason why we 341 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: can't stay monogamous is because we have these ideals of 342 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: what a relationship should be, and we can't necessarily suss 343 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: out the reality versus the fantasy. Um. And that's of 344 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 1: course not part and parcel of every divorce that happens. 345 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: But they say a lot of that is involved in 346 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: why we decide part ways. The society says that we 347 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: should be able to achieve this, but then our brains 348 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: and our behavior patterns they all end up pointing in this, uh, 349 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: this rather different direction. Yeah. So, I mean, part of 350 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: it is, you know, just genetic, right in terms of 351 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: what sort of directs our behavior on an individual basis, 352 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: I'm not saying wholesale males and females. And then part 353 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: of it is cultural, what we've leave we need for 354 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: ourselves out of a relationship and what a relationship means 355 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: to us. Yeah, I guess, I guess. The thing is 356 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: it just seems like it does seem like a no 357 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: brainer that while like a relationship between two individuals is 358 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: going to have a certain amount of complexity to it, 359 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: a certain you know, a certain amount of ins and 360 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: outs for every additional person added to that relationship, even 361 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: if they're you know, in the status they have the 362 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: status of a sister wife as opposed to like a 363 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 1: full pledge, you know, equal part of this uh, this 364 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: this unit. Uh, it's just going to breed more and 365 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: more complexity and more and more feelings of distrust or 366 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: you know, etcetera. Which is probably why if you if 367 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: you look back, um, of the human species, why we 368 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: have been primarily monogamistic. It used to be that we 369 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: thought that because we were trying to uh spread our genes, 370 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: and that men were certainly you know, going after more 371 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: women to procreate with them in order to do that, UM, 372 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: that we really run from more of a polygenous society. 373 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,479 Speaker 1: But if you look at the stats, and this is 374 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: really interesting, this is from a Life science article, it 375 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 1: says that we've pretty much always skewed monogamous. Dr Damian 376 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: the Buddha, an investor investigator at the Saint Justine University 377 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 1: Hospital Research Center, headed team that analyzed genomic data from 378 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: three population samples Africa, Asia and Europe and um completely 379 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: monogamy would yield a one to one breeding ratio right um. 380 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: The study found that the breeding ratio varied between one 381 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: point one and one point four according to population. So 382 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: one point one in Asia, one point three in Europe, 383 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: and one point four in Africa. And those stats really 384 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: don't point to an overtly polygamous um society overall for 385 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: the human species. So to your point less complex than 386 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: he is probably better, right at the end of the day. Yeah, 387 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: that doesn't you know, necessarily for the question about why 388 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: we can't always, uh stay monogamous or why some people 389 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: can um. But it's certainly a field that is ripe 390 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: for more investigation. Well, let's look forward into the future. 391 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: What does the future hold for monogamy? Okay, we've talked 392 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: about in our Birthday Candles podcast about the very real 393 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: possibility that we might live to five hundred years, the 394 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 1: ripe old age of five hundred years, maybe even a 395 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: thousand years, depending on how well we can maintain ourselves 396 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: right with the current technology, and then the technology in 397 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: the next fifty years a hundred years, right, And if 398 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: and if two individuals can grow apart over the course 399 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: of say a decade, then they're definitely there's definitely a 400 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: higher risk they're going to grow apart over the course 401 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: of five hundred years. Uh. And this assuming that the 402 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: you know, there's enough neural plasticity in play that one 403 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: is changing and that these four hundred year old individuals 404 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: are not just sort of neurologically mummified versions of the 405 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: past self. You know. But but assuming you know, life 406 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: continues and people are pursuing interest in all, and you 407 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: could easily imagine that that from century to century, or 408 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: even from half century to half century, you're growing into 409 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: new people, and then by necessity you're you're pairing up 410 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: with new people. It's I mean, think about how much 411 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 1: you change from age of twenty to thirty and imagine that, 412 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: you know, like you say, a turning five hundred and 413 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: then you know two hundred years later, Uh, you're going 414 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,719 Speaker 1: to have a completely different perspective and probably you're going 415 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: to have many different partners. Right, So does monogamy exist 416 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: in the future. I think it's what we're asking, um 417 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: And already, I mean, there have been people who say 418 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 1: we should have marital term limits. Um. You know, for 419 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: us now like fifteen twenty year contracts um in which 420 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: couples agree to invest time to sustain a family and 421 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: to be together. So the question is what does that 422 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: look like in the future, And um, you know, what 423 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: about reproduction because this is this A lot of this 424 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: is predicated on reproduction, right, like pairings get together because 425 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: there are a lot stronger together to raise a family. 426 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: This is the sort of evidence that we've been looking 427 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: into in the animal world and and uh with humans. 428 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: And so you know a lot of people are saying 429 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: that reproduction is going to start to happen in the 430 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: labs much more so than it is today. Right, I 431 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: mean it's already becoming more of a situation where I 432 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: mean reproductive choices such as artificial extamination, the use of 433 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: donor eggs, the use of surrogate mothers, and then of 434 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: course widespread adoption. Uh. These are all examples of where 435 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: the classic model I feel of of the family unit 436 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: and uh, end of reproduction has shifted somewhe So you know, 437 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: it's easy to mention the future it will continue to 438 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: shift well, and especially I mean we're talking about possibly 439 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: having a uterine replicator, so you could actually just date 440 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: a child again in the lab. So to your point, 441 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: how does that shift society if you no longer have 442 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: to pair up in order to at least accomplish some 443 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: of these aspects of life. Yeah, I mean society has 444 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: always changed with its technology, and it's gonna continue to 445 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: do so, even as the technology affects such, you know, 446 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: such basic human activities as the spreading of one's jeans. 447 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,479 Speaker 1: And as we discussed um in the Ladies on Planet 448 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: Earth podcast, that we already see a trend in which 449 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: women are choosing not to marry or mary later since 450 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: they're better educated and they have better earnings. So just 451 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: you know, present day, you know, you wonder how much 452 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: of monogamy is going to stay the same, at least 453 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: as how we perceive monogamy. So do we end up 454 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: becoming the angler fish where ladies are the man is 455 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: just basically reduced to some tests in a tube somewhere, 456 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: and it's just like a race of ferocious ladies with 457 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: sharp teeth and glowing things protruding from their forehead. I 458 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know. That's kind of living in 459 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 1: the deep ocean. I mean, I gotta say, that's that's awesome. 460 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: I mean, get me wrong, out of my husband. I 461 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: don't necessarily want him to glom onto my bath. Um, 462 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: but that that makes for a nice little short story 463 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: right there. The anglic fish one of the nature's nature's 464 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 1: wonders all right, Well, let's call over the robot. I 465 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 1: have a couple of quick messages here to read, all right. 466 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: These are both in response to our hugged Out podcast 467 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: we heard from a listener, Amanda. Amanda Ryson says, I'm 468 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: a hugger exclamation point. I grew up. I grew up 469 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 1: in a family that did not hug. My sister that 470 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: is eleven years older than me, cannot stand to be touched. 471 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: So when I came around, I was a shocker to everyone. 472 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: Me wanting hugs and touch so much got me the 473 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: nickname clean on awesome. Well that's a yeah, that's the 474 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: That's interesting that Amanda sinthing him because it reminds me 475 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: of Actually, I received a text message from my sister 476 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: related to this, and my sister Ali rideson and says, 477 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: just listen to your podcast on hugging. I have a 478 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: picture of the three of us here on my desk. 479 00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: Who's referring to herself, me and our sister Lucy, who 480 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: my sister Alex, and this calls loopers. She says, I 481 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: have a picture of the three of us here on 482 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: my desk. In it, you were giving me a side hug, 483 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: which the awkward hug that I my mom. Uh and 484 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: uh he said, and Loopers is standing a foot away 485 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 1: because she's she's not a hugger. So what about Alian? 486 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: She does she engage in like a hug hug? You know, 487 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Um, she's definitely a hugger. Uh, definitely 488 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: more so than uh than me or Lucy. Yeah, but 489 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: so so I guess you that there's three hugs, so 490 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: I mean, and you can sort of, I guess you can. 491 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: You might be able to make some argument about like 492 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: birth order there because I'm the oldest and I'm just 493 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: kind of an awkward hugger. Lucy is the middle child. 494 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: She's not a hugger at all. He doesn't really like 495 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: to be touched. And then Ali is certainly the more 496 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: gregarious of the three of us, and she's she seems 497 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: like a like a she's definitely more of a hugger. 498 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 1: She's more apt to talk about her feelings and all. Yeah, 499 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: but that might be Geneticamly, she might be the double 500 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: G variant that we're talking about, and so she's got 501 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: the receptors for it, and she might be a hug junkie. 502 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: She could be. She was also born in Canada. I 503 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: don't know, like she was she was born. What happen 504 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense at all, doesn't I don't know. And 505 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 1: we have to scar Canadian listeners if they're all there's 506 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: something in the water of well. I know that generally 507 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: the stereotype of the Canadian is that the Canadians more reserved. 508 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: Like the Canadian hug is not a thing, right, I 509 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: have not heard of I've heard of Canadian bacon, but 510 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: not the Canadian hug. Yeah, I don't know. Well, Canadians 511 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: can straight me out on us, or my sister can 512 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: straighten me out if she hears this. It's some more 513 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: texts about it. But anyway, so there you go. There's 514 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: some some feedback on the Hugs episode. If you would 515 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: like to share some feedback on hugs, on monogamy, on 516 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: angler fish and they're strange ways, then you can find 517 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: us on Twitter, where we are Blow the Mind. You 518 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: can also find us on Facebook. Just do a search 519 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: on Facebook for stuff to Blow your Mind and you 520 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: will probably find us, And you can also send us 521 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: an email at Blow the Mind at Discovery dot com. 522 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff 523 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: from the Future. 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