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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Legally Brunette. I

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Speaker 1: will be your host today Emily Simpson with Shane Today

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Speaker 1: on Legally Brunette. We are going to discuss and I

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Speaker 1: have to say, this is a case that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people were dming me about, and so I think

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Speaker 1: I might have seen it, but it wasn't one of

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Speaker 1: those ones that like stood out to me. But then

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Speaker 1: after so many people were dming me saying have you

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Speaker 1: watched the Scream Murder? That I decided to watch it

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Speaker 1: and then I have to tell you, you guys were right.

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Speaker 1: You hit the nail on the head because it was

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Speaker 1: so interesting. It's on Hulu. It's called the Scream Murder

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Speaker 1: and it's three parts. But I had a hard time. Normally,

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Speaker 1: I will watch a part and then I have to

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Speaker 1: like go to bed because I can't stay up late.

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Speaker 1: But this was one of those I could not stop

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Speaker 1: watching it. I had to watch all three parts. So

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Speaker 1: let's go through it. Well, we're going to get into that,

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Speaker 1: but I will just tell you a little background is

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Speaker 1: because the two perpetrators of this crime were very obsessed

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Speaker 1: with the movies Scream, well, they were obsessed with horror

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Speaker 1: movies in general, horror, horror movies, not horror movies, not

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Speaker 1: horror movies, horrorror movies in.

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Speaker 2: General, horror, not horror or.

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Speaker 1: I know what I was trying to I was trying

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Speaker 1: to Announcie.

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Speaker 2: Saying horror or prostitute. It's horror, horror, horror movies.

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Speaker 1: They were into scary movies, and one of the movies

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Speaker 1: they were especially intrigued by or or obsessed with, was

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Speaker 1: the scream Murders with the Mask. So Cassie Joe Stoddard

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Speaker 1: was a sixteen year old high school student who was

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Speaker 1: brutally murdered on September twenty second of two thousand and six.

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Speaker 1: This was while she was house sitting for relatives and Pocatello, Idaho.

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Speaker 1: So we're back to Idaho. We go all over the map,

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Speaker 1: and now we're back to Idaho. It was deemed the

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Speaker 1: scream murder, and investigators later found that her attackers instilled

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Speaker 1: fear before making their move, like switching off the power

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Speaker 1: in the house and wearing creepy halloween masks over their faces.

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Speaker 1: They had also planned the killing in advance and recorded

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Speaker 1: videos to discussing it, reportedly drawing inspiration from the horror

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Speaker 1: film Scream. The teens were arrested within days, convicted of

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Speaker 1: first degree murder and were each sentenced to life in

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Speaker 1: prison without the possibility of parole, which is now viewed

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Speaker 1: as extremely controversial, which we will also get into because

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Speaker 1: in the third part they actually talk about a Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court decision that has to do with whether minors should

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Speaker 1: be convicted of life without parole, So we'll talk about that.

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Speaker 1: All right, Let's go through a little bit of this timeline.

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Speaker 1: So in the weeks leading up to this murder again,

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Speaker 1: this is two thousand and six, so you have two classmates,

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Speaker 1: two classmates, these are your two main characters. You have

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Speaker 1: Brian Draper and Tory Adamchick, both were sixteen years old,

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Speaker 1: and they become increasingly fascinated with horror movies, especially Scream

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Speaker 1: and violent crimes, begin filming themselves on a video camera,

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Speaker 1: discussing their desire to commit a real life murder.

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Speaker 2: And wait, hold on, what age are they now or

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Speaker 2: what grade?

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Speaker 1: They're sixteen?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so they're in high school and they're into horror movies. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then they have a video camera and they start

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Speaker 2: fantasizing about their own horror movies. But maybe real life.

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Speaker 1: Right, Like I think one of them, especially Toy, was

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Speaker 1: into making movies, but they take it so far that

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Speaker 1: they're actually not just obsessed.

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Speaker 2: With We couldn't afford the special effects, right, so they

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Speaker 2: they just had to create real right horror.

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Speaker 1: So and Cassie Joe Stoddard was actually their friend that

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Speaker 1: they hung out with and so, and it's really they

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Speaker 1: have they show in this. I think what makes this

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Speaker 1: documentary so intriguing to me is that they show the

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Speaker 1: videos that these two kids made, and some of them

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Speaker 1: are just it looks like they're sitting in the library

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Speaker 1: at school.

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Speaker 2: Oh I did see that. Yeah, it's almost at a table.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like someone just set the camera on a table. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: not even pointed properly at them, like they were kind

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Speaker 2: of cut off a little bit, Like this is them

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Speaker 2: at a table. It was really close and they were

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Speaker 2: just talking to each other and kind of in the

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Speaker 2: camera and kind of to each other, right, right.

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Speaker 1: But they were talking about like their obsession with death

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Speaker 1: and killing people.

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Speaker 2: Do you find that they were trying to record themselves

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Speaker 2: to share like as notes for what they want to

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Speaker 2: do or I think they did. They know that they

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Speaker 2: would be prosecuted one day and then this could be

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Speaker 2: used against them.

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Speaker 1: Clearly, they did not think that far in advance or

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Speaker 1: have that type of sophisticated thinking. I think they thought

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Speaker 1: that they were just really cool and they were going

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Speaker 1: to be like, you know, these cool guys that commit

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Speaker 1: murder and record it and talk about death and all right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So the pair began filming themselves on a video camera

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Speaker 1: discussing their desire to commit a real life murder. They

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Speaker 1: talk about wanting to gain notoriety and even mention surpass

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Speaker 1: saying the infamy of the perpetrators of the Columbine High

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Speaker 1: School massacre. That's the other thing. I know. They were

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Speaker 1: very obsessed with Columbine, and they watched videos of Columbine

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Speaker 1: a lot, and.

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Speaker 2: As something that was because six the Columbine happened in

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Speaker 2: ninety nine or two thousand somewhere around. It was either

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Speaker 2: nine nine or two thousand. So I wonder why what

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Speaker 2: captured them or captivated them with that school shooting and

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Speaker 2: they're all horrific.

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Speaker 1: So well, Columbine's the I guess the biggest, most famous,

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Speaker 1: most recognized, the one that's.

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Speaker 2: Actually there's you know what, the Columbine. There's I think

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Speaker 2: there's because there are school cameras. There's probably a little

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Speaker 2: bit more footage and images available on that shooting too

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Speaker 2: than there would be when you hear about a mass shooting,

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Speaker 2: then there's nothing released because maybe it happened so quick.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I do believe they watched. They like to

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Speaker 1: watch YouTube videos of like the actual.

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Speaker 2: Then they must have. Yeah, and then those guys they dressed,

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Speaker 2: it was two of them, just like these two and

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Speaker 2: the rest in trench coas they had a little bit

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Speaker 2: more of an image, So maybe they were kind of

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Speaker 2: following that, emulating that. Yeah, did I tell you?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 2: When I went to Chapman University, I took a video

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Speaker 2: editing class and this one guy in there. He wouldn't

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Speaker 2: suspect him. He like disappeared. He was like he was

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Speaker 2: supposed to be in like our team, we're supposed to

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Speaker 2: make a video or he like disappeared for a week

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Speaker 2: and we kept calling him and he's like I can't

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Speaker 2: talk right now, and he'd like hang up, Like what's

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Speaker 2: going on? What? He was a Columbine graduate and apparently

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Speaker 2: he had helped make some videos with these kids.

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Speaker 1: Wait, you have never told me.

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Speaker 2: There's lots of things I haven't told you. It's not

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Speaker 2: like one night when we're going out to romantic dinner,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you about this kid so and

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Speaker 2: so he was all paranoid and then he was Then

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Speaker 2: he finally came back to school and we're asking what's

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Speaker 2: going on. He was telling us how he had all

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Speaker 2: these lawyers and all these things going on. He was

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Speaker 2: panicky because he helped. He was not violent in any way,

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Speaker 2: but he was helping make videos. I guess with these kids.

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Speaker 1: Prior to the whole wait, the kids that he went

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Speaker 1: to school with him, So he was.

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Speaker 2: From Colorado and he was a freshman.

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Speaker 1: What kind of videos?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. His lawyers forbid from speaking to us.

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Speaker 1: Well, it couldn't.

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Speaker 2: It was not like they were making like happy No.

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Speaker 2: I think I think they were making like fantasizing about

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Speaker 2: like gun shooting and this and that. And he I

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Speaker 2: think he was more behind the camera guy, like he

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Speaker 2: was helping them. He wasn't like their friend and joining them.

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Speaker 2: It was more because he was so into movies and

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Speaker 2: so into editing and video and I always wondered what

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Speaker 2: happened to him.

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Speaker 1: But so you're saying he was supposed to be in

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Speaker 1: a group project with you. And then he disappeared, right,

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Speaker 1: this is after the Columbine shooting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well it happened. No, it happened that week. So

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Speaker 2: he got he disappeared, and then he came back and

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Speaker 2: told you. Then like a week later, we finally got

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Speaker 2: ahold of him, and he was saying that he was

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Speaker 2: like he was frantic, and he had lawyers all the place.

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Speaker 2: He said he didn't know what to do, and he

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Speaker 2: was like on the phone all the time. And that's

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Speaker 2: the end of my That's very interesting, all right.

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Speaker 1: Back to the screen murder.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it wasn't very interesting, which is and then you

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Speaker 2: wonder why I didn't tell you.

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Speaker 1: No, it was interesting. I do find it interesting. That

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Speaker 1: wasn't sarcasm. I do find it. That was interesting. Story

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Speaker 1: all right. So the teens were back to Brian and

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Speaker 1: Tory also created a death list of potential victims, which

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Speaker 1: included classmates. This actually they found this after she was murdered,

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Speaker 1: because they didn't know if it was I don't know

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Speaker 1: if she was on the list or not. But after

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Speaker 1: she was murdered and they suspected these two, they end

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Speaker 1: up finding videos and evidence against them and not.

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Speaker 2: Only they had.

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Speaker 1: They had like a whole list of classmates that they

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Speaker 1: were that were like a hit list. So I don't

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Speaker 1: think it wasn't going to end with just her a legend, right,

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Speaker 1: A friend purchases four knives from a pawnshop for them

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Speaker 1: using money the boys provided, So that's how they got

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Speaker 1: the murder weapons. Then now we get to September twenty

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Speaker 1: again of two thousand and six. This is the night

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Speaker 1: of the murder, So Cassie was actually this is a

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Speaker 1: house you can in the documentary. It's like on a

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Speaker 1: it's like on a lane called like Whispering Lane, so

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Speaker 1: they call it like the Whispering Lane House. And it's

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Speaker 1: kind of secluded. There's not like a lot of homes

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Speaker 1: around it. It's kind of set off like kind of

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Speaker 1: off off of the main not on a main road.

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Speaker 2: You know how you would picture a house to be there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a scream murder kind of house. It's

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Speaker 1: like secluded and there's not like not a lot of

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Speaker 1: things around it. And I guess she was a house

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Speaker 1: sitting for a family member, like a cousin or something.

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Speaker 2: I believe. Oh, so she's not in her house, she's

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Speaker 2: in a No.

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Speaker 1: She's not at her own house. She's at this house.

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Speaker 1: And then the boys knew that she was there because

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Speaker 1: they were friends at school, and I believe there there

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Speaker 1: was some conversation at some point about how she was

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Speaker 1: house sitting at this house, and so I guess they

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Speaker 1: had made plans for the two of them to come over,

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Speaker 1: and she wanted to show them the house and they

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Speaker 1: were so anyway, we're going to get into that. So

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Speaker 1: at six pm, this is the night.

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Speaker 2: Of the murder, is she like staying the night there?

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Speaker 1: Then? Yeah, she's like staying I think for a weekend.

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Speaker 2: Would you, like, like your sixteen year old kid. I'm not

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Speaker 2: blaming their parents, but would you let your sixteen year

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Speaker 2: old kids stay at someone's house for a weekend? A

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Speaker 2: house sit? I mean, what are you gonna do call

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Speaker 2: the cops when a burglar comes in?

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Speaker 1: Or I don't know. I didn't really understand that either,

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Speaker 1: But they didn't elaborate on it, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe there were pets or something.

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Speaker 2: Well I guess I'm guessing they elaborate because it wasn't significant.

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Speaker 1: Nonetheless, she was at that house, right, I think it

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Speaker 1: was like a cousin's house or her aunt's house or something.

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Speaker 1: So Cassie is sixteen and she's house sitting for oh,

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Speaker 1: it's for her aunt and uncle at their home in

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Speaker 1: Pocatello while they are out of town. She has a

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Speaker 1: boyfriend named Matt, and he arrives to spend the evening

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Speaker 1: with her. I believe he wanted to spend the night,

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Speaker 1: but like his mom wouldn't let him spend the night

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Speaker 1: or something. Why anyway, Then Brian Draper and Tory Adam Chick,

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Speaker 1: who are the friends of Cassie and Matt the boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: arrive at the house to hang out with them. So

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Speaker 1: there's the four of them there. So there's the two guys,

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Speaker 1: there's her boyfriend, and there's Cassie. Cassie gives them a

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Speaker 1: tour of the house, including the basement where they play

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Speaker 1: around with a workout machine. So it's like, there's a

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Speaker 1: basement to this house. I think there's like a barbell

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Speaker 1: set or something down there. They play around on that.

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Speaker 1: Then the fourteens watched the film Kill Bill Volume two

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Speaker 1: in the living room. Then around nine thirty to ten PM,

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Speaker 1: Draper and Adam Chick claim that they are leaving to

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Speaker 1: go see a movie at a local theater. Before leaving,

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Speaker 1: Draper secretly that's what he does. He secretly unlocks the

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Speaker 1: basement door so that they can re enter later without

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Speaker 1: being noticed. So while they're in the house, they get

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Speaker 1: a layout of the house, right because she gives ann tour,

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Speaker 1: and then he secretly unlocks the basement door so that

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Speaker 1: they can come back later. Then around nine to fifty pm,

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Speaker 1: while away from the house, Draper records a chilling video.

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Speaker 1: So this is this video just it's unreal to me.

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Speaker 1: They go, they're her friend, right, they recorded her earlier

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Speaker 1: in the day at school. It actually shows a video

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Speaker 1: of them recording her, like getting like in the hallway,

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Speaker 1: getting into her school locker and they're like, hey, Cassie,

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Speaker 1: and they're like joking around with her and stuff. And

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Speaker 1: then after they leave the house where she's house sitting,

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Speaker 1: they record a video. Investigators later find that he had

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Speaker 1: been recording footage for a couple of days, taking videos

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Speaker 1: of Cassie at school and showing that he and Adam

256
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,839
Speaker 1: Chick writing out their plans and describing what they were

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Speaker 1: going to do. One of the most well well known

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Speaker 1: lines is this is from what they were recording of

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Speaker 1: themselves the time is nine fifty. It's September twenty second,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six. Unfortunately, we have the grueling task

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Speaker 1: of killing our two friends, and they are right in

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Speaker 1: that house down the street. So they say this on video.

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Speaker 2: And I have two friends being the boyfriend right.

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Speaker 1: Because the boyfriend was there too at that time. After

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Speaker 1: leaving the house, they filmed themselves again and Draper said,

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Speaker 1: we just killed Cassie Soddard. This is Draper. Brian.

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Speaker 2: Draper say, unfortunately too, like they're.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well that's that is I get right. Unfortunately, we

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Speaker 1: have the task, the grueling task of killing our two friends.

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Speaker 2: Then that means they were willing to kill him if

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Speaker 2: he was there. I'm guessing he wasn't there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he ended up leaving because he I think I

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Speaker 1: believe what happened was he called his mom. They actually

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Speaker 1: messed with the lights to scare Cassie. So they cut

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Speaker 1: the lights like the outside line.

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Speaker 2: In typical horror fashion, yes, to get.

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Speaker 1: The lights to go out in the house. And this

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Speaker 1: is while her boyfriend was there. So then both of

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Speaker 1: them were scared and they wouldn't I think they wanted

280
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Speaker 1: them to go down and check the lights. That was

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Speaker 1: the purpose of cutting the lights, but they were scared

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Speaker 1: and they didn't do that. They also threw a bottle

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Speaker 1: down at those basement steps, remember where he left the

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Speaker 1: door open. They threw a bottle or something down there

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Speaker 1: to get a reaction so that they would come down

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Speaker 1: and see what it was. But they didn't go down

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Speaker 1: there either. And then I believe Matt the boyfriend calls

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Speaker 1: his mom and says, hey, Cassie's house sitting and she's

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Speaker 1: scared and the lights went off. Can I stay the night?

290
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Speaker 1: And she says, no, you can't stay the night, but

291
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Speaker 1: if you want to leave, and she wants to come

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Speaker 1: with you, she can come and stay at our house.

293
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Speaker 1: And then Cassie declines because she says, no, I told

294
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Speaker 1: my aunt and uncud i's gonna watch their house. I'm

295
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Speaker 1: gonna stay here. So then the boyfriend gets picked up

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Speaker 1: by his mom and he leaves. And I always wonder,

297
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Speaker 1: like what his thought process is. Yeah, they don't go

298
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,680
Speaker 1: into that, but I always wonder that. But anyway, so

299
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Speaker 1: I believe his mom comes and picks them up, he leaves.

300
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Speaker 1: Now she's at this home alone.

301
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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess these kids are young. He's only sixteen,

303
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,360
Speaker 1: but I feel badly that they're scared. The lights have

304
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Speaker 1: gone out, there's a crash down in the basement, and

305
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Speaker 1: then he's like.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm just gonnaorrow.

307
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go home now, see you later. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: at this point, she's now left alone in the house.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so then.

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Speaker 1: I believe they know that he left. But they end

311
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Speaker 1: up going into the house and I don't know what happens.

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Speaker 1: They do not record inside the house, which I don't

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Speaker 1: know why they didn't do that, because they're recording everything.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they're recording her at school, they're recording them

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Speaker 1: saying that they're gonna kill her, but then they don't

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Speaker 1: end up recording the actual acts. So as far as

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Speaker 1: who did what, they.

318
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Speaker 2: Didn't want to incriminate themselves.

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Speaker 1: Right, They were very careful about that. So anyway, the

320
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Speaker 1: two of them enter the house with masks on and

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Speaker 1: they stab herrea mask screen well some type of mass

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Speaker 1: I think there was some kind of home made kind

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Speaker 1: of masks. They end up stabbing her. I don't know

324
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Speaker 1: who stabs what or who. I guess at this point

325
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Speaker 1: it doesn't even matter. They both enter, they stab her.

326
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Speaker 1: She was stabbed multiple times. They leave the house, they

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Speaker 1: go back into the car and they make another video saying,

328
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Speaker 1: and it's Brian Draper that says, we just killed Cassie

329
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Speaker 1: Joe's stope. Yeah. So the two teens leave the house

330
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Speaker 1: and record another video. This is when they get back

331
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Speaker 1: in the car. Tory says, I'm shaking. Brian Draper says,

332
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Speaker 1: I stabbed her in the throat. I saw her lifeless body.

333
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Speaker 1: It just disappeared. Dude, I just killed Cassie. Oh that

334
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 1: felt like it wasn't even real. I mean, it went

335
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Speaker 1: by so fast. Tory says, shut the fuck up. We

336
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Speaker 1: got to get our acts straight. Then they go to

337
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Speaker 1: Blackrock Canyon. This is some does like desolute area where

338
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,040
Speaker 1: they attempt to burn the tape and bury the knives, clothing,

339
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:07,880
Speaker 1: and masks that were used in the crime.

340
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,400
Speaker 2: They wanted to get rid of the Yeah, so that was.

341
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Speaker 1: Their way of like trying to get rid of the murder.

342
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Speaker 2: Keep the video.

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Speaker 1: So after well, they burned the video and they try

344
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 1: and they bury it.

345
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,120
Speaker 2: Why did they make a video then?

346
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Speaker 1: Why do they why do they do anything that they did?

347
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,920
Speaker 1: So some other things that they said on the video

348
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,880
Speaker 1: was We're going to make history and people will remember us.

349
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,960
Speaker 1: They also discussed a death list of classmates that they

350
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,800
Speaker 1: considered targeting. At this time. The two boys claim that

351
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,640
Speaker 1: they went to the movie theater to see this movie

352
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 1: called Pulse. I don't remember this movie. I don't know

353
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,160
Speaker 1: have you ever heard of it? A movie called Pulse.

354
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Speaker 2: The Pink Floyd album called Oh Well.

355
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 1: Anyway, that's their alibi that they're creating, is that they

356
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Speaker 1: go they go see.

357
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Speaker 2: A movie during the crime, not after the crime.

358
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,159
Speaker 1: Well, I believe they might have even gone as far

359
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,680
Speaker 1: as buying movie tickets, which reminded me of Menindez when

360
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,560
Speaker 1: they were trying to create an alibi that they also

361
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:20,280
Speaker 1: went to the movies and bought movie tickets. Okay, So

362
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,840
Speaker 1: during this attack, Draper, this is Brian Draper is armed

363
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 1: with a dagger style knife and Adam Chick is carrying

364
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,959
Speaker 1: a hunting knife. Draper slams a closet door to frighten

365
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,960
Speaker 1: Cassie right before the attack, and then Cassie has stabbed

366
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Speaker 1: twenty eight times with many wounds considered fatal. So, and

367
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Speaker 1: we already talked about what they said. After they leave

368
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,160
Speaker 1: the house, they record another video. That's where he talks

369
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:47,800
Speaker 1: about how he stabbed her in the throat and he

370
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,760
Speaker 1: saw her lifeless body. They go to Blackrock Canyon and

371
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 1: this is where they attempt to burn the tape. I

372
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 1: think they attempt to burn the tape, but clearly they

373
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:56,520
Speaker 1: didn't burn it.

374
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,159
Speaker 2: Right because he said attempt and you've seen the video. Yeah,

375
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,439
Speaker 2: So did they burn it and say forget it and

376
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,119
Speaker 2: brought it back with them or did authorities find it afterwards?

377
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 1: The authorities found it afterwards, so they must have tried

378
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:07,639
Speaker 1: to burn it, but it must not have burned it

379
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 1: badly enough to damage it, because you can is.

380
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,680
Speaker 2: It literally a tape cassette or is it like a

381
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:14,520
Speaker 2: digital camera?

382
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:16,560
Speaker 1: I don't know because this is two thousand and six,

383
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 1: so what would it be?

384
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 2: Could more likely digital, But nonetheless they failed in trying

385
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:23,640
Speaker 2: to destroy the evidence.

386
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,000
Speaker 1: Right. So then on September twenty fourth, this is when

387
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 1: Cassie's aunt and uncle return home. They discover her body

388
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,600
Speaker 1: in the house and her aunt calls nine to one

389
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:36,119
Speaker 1: to one, and then police launch a homicide investigation. Obviously,

390
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 1: because he's the boyfriend and the last person to have.

391
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,320
Speaker 2: Seen Cassie alive, that guy's a prime suspect.

392
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, can you imagine this guy's like, he's like, no,

393
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,040
Speaker 1: my mom told me to come home.

394
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:47,879
Speaker 2: He's like, I laughed, I swear.

395
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy's got to be like the whole

396
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 1: time I was watching it and I was thinking, man,

397
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:57,320
Speaker 1: you got you almost got murdered, and then you almost yeah,

398
00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,919
Speaker 1: like that guy was murdered or murdered.

399
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 2: Right.

400
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 1: So Matt Beckham, who is the boyfriend, is initially considered

401
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 1: a person eventually, right, he's the last person to see Cassie.

402
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 1: He's at the house with her that night, and then

403
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 1: he claims that his mom picked him up, so it

404
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,600
Speaker 1: shows him. They bring him in and they're questioning him.

405
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,159
Speaker 1: So the police bring him in, they show him. He

406
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 1: doesn't have much emotion at all, and this is he

407
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 1: just found out.

408
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 2: Well, he might not know what the heck's going on,

409
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:25,399
Speaker 2: I know.

410
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,880
Speaker 1: And it's very interesting because I'm thinking he's sixteen, right,

411
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 1: he just found out his girlfriend was murdered. She was

412
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 1: stabbed at the house where he just was.

413
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,719
Speaker 2: I think it takes a while to sink in, especially

414
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,840
Speaker 2: if you're young. If he saw her, let's say he

415
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 2: came to the scene and ran into it and saw

416
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 2: I think he'd have any emotional reaction. Yeah, but when

417
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,120
Speaker 2: someone comes and tells you she's dead, you're like, wait, what,

418
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,480
Speaker 2: Like it takes a while to process. Yeah, to have

419
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 2: that image in your head that she is gone, That's

420
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 2: what I think.

421
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 1: I also thought he's probably sitting there having every possible

422
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 1: scenario running through his mind of like, like, do they

423
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 1: think I did it? I left, I wasn't there. I

424
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,719
Speaker 1: could have been murdered. Was I supposed to be murdered?

425
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine like everything that's going through

426
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 1: his mind anyway, So they questioned him. He says that

427
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 1: he left, and then they asked him to take a polygraph.

428
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,679
Speaker 1: He takes a polygraph test, and he provides investigators with

429
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,159
Speaker 1: information about Draper and Adam Chick that were also visiting

430
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,400
Speaker 1: the house that night. Okay, so that's where their names

431
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: come up. So he passes the polygraph, like passes well

432
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 1: that and.

433
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 2: He has a vowed story of these other two guys

434
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 2: came in, they walked around, so now he picked me up.

435
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 2: They talked to the mom, So it probably like, Okay,

436
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 2: this guy is less likely an issue, and let's look

437
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 2: into the other two.

438
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: I believe he passed the polygraph like there was no

439
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 1: like on the fence, like he passed. So then now

440
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 1: the other two are persons of interest, right because he

441
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 1: now names them that they were in the house that

442
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 1: night too. So five days this is five days after

443
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 1: the murder. Now we're two September twenty seventh of two

444
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 1: thousand and six. Police interrogate Draper and Adam Chick. They

445
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,680
Speaker 1: bring them in, so they're questioning.

446
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 2: Them, and then five days.

447
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 1: Later, yes, so I guess they went to their homes first,

448
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 1: interviewed them at home, probably got some basic information, probably

449
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 1: just a feel for them, and then they brought them in.

450
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 1: And I believe their parents were with them when they

451
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: brought them in to interview.

452
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 2: Them, and there's footage of that.

453
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's footage of that. So they bring them in,

454
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 1: they start questioning them. Then what they do They ask

455
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,400
Speaker 1: Brian Draper to take a polygraph. So when they ask

456
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 1: Brian Draper to take a polygraph, they pull him out

457
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: to take a polygraph, and then I believe that the

458
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 1: investigator or the lead detective or whoever's on the case

459
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 1: gets a phone call that says he wants to talk

460
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,679
Speaker 1: to them. So instead of sitting down and taking the polygraph,

461
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 1: I think he just he freaked out right, and he's like,

462
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm gonna fail. I'm just gonna unload

463
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: and tell them Wow. So they go back and so

464
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: Brian Draper eventually confesses that he witnessed Cassie's murder. He

465
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,400
Speaker 1: claims that he was.

466
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 2: There, but he didn't do it.

467
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: But he didn't do it, and he claims that it

468
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 1: was the other.

469
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 2: Video that they made after the murder. Didn't Draper say

470
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:21,239
Speaker 2: that he did it.

471
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 1: He said, I stabbed her in the throat. I killed

472
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: her out. Yeah, But in his you know, in his

473
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: confession to the police, he says that he was there,

474
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: but he didn't actually stab her. It was Tory was

475
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: the one that stabbed her. Then he tells them about

476
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: all the hidden evidence back at black Rock Canyon where

477
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: they tried to burn the tape. It's a VHS tape

478
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 1: actually they try to burn it, and they tried to

479
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: burn the clothes that they had on and bury them.

480
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: So they lead the police. So the officers recover weapons, clothing,

481
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: and a partially burn VHS tape documenting their plans. It's

482
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 1: obvious that Brian thought the VH tape was destroyed as

483
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: his original confession doesn't line up with what he says

484
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 1: on the tape. I'm sure he's assuming that they burned it.

485
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 2: Enough, right that it was not retrievable.

486
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: Right, they wouldn't be able to see what's on it,

487
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: but they were able to see it.

488
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

489
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: So then on September twenty seventh, the two thousand and six,

490
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 1: Draper and Adam Chick are both arrested in charge of

491
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. You know,

492
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 1: the other thing that's interesting was so Brian Draper. The

493
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: whole time I was watching this, his parents are in

494
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 1: the documentary, his mom and his dad, and I'm thinking

495
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: that he must be innocent somehow because his mom and

496
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: dad are both like in this documentary doing interviews in

497
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: his mom's and they're a LDS family. It shows like

498
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: the Mormon church. It shows, you know, you know, this

499
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: background of like religion and like this small town. And

500
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 1: Brian was adopted, I believe through the church. He wasn't

501
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: there iological child, but they adopted him when he was

502
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: a baby. Because the whole time, I kept thinking, he

503
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: doesn't look anything like his mom or his dad. But

504
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: then they later talk about how he was adopted. But anyways,

505
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: so the dad. If you look at the interrogation videos

506
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: of the dad when he's sitting next to Brian and

507
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 1: Brian's being interrogated by the police, this is back in

508
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 1: six he's like, like a really healthy looking, hefty guy.

509
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: He's got kind of like a full head of red hair,

510
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: and he's like, you know, kind of I don't I

511
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 1: was gonna say full figured, but what do you say

512
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: for a man. He's just like kind of you know,

513
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: stocky and right. Anyway, then when you watch him in

514
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: the documentary like present day, like talking about twenty years later,

515
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,239
Speaker 1: he I don't know if he I'm speculating, but it

516
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: looks as if maybe he had a stroke or something.

517
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: He has trouble.

518
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 2: Talking life for twenty years.

519
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, sounds like you can tell. You can see that

520
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: the twenty years of his son being in prison and

521
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: being convicted of being a murderer, and also the devastation

522
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 1: of the other family and just everything that he's dealing

523
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: with as a father just completely devastated this man like

524
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: he is. You can see it physically.

525
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: It took a toll on him. Yeah, absolutely, and he's

526
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 2: not full figured anymore.

527
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: No, it was very thin, yeah, and just and his

528
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: voice was different, which made me think that maybe he

529
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: had had a stroke. I don't know.

530
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 2: Well, either way, it took a toll on him, and

531
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 2: if he did have a stroke, maybe it was related

532
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 2: right with the stress and everything.

533
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 1: Right, And then they also interview Tory's mother. I don't know.

534
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: She just seemed delusional to me. It was just very

535
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: much like what a sweet boy is and what a

536
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: nice boy is, and how he was always such a

537
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: great boy and he's always such a sweet boy.

538
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,719
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, that murder that doesn't really describe.

539
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 2: I don't know, son.

540
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: I just I had a hard time of her. But

541
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: I think I thought maybe she should have just declined

542
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: the interview and just not done that. But all right,

543
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: So anyway, back in September, so now we're just September

544
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: twenty seventh, Draper and Adam Chick are both arrested in

545
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: charge with first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.

546
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: They go to trial in two thousand and seven and

547
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: they're tried separately. Prosecutors lay out the evidence, including the

548
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: VHS tape, Cassie's bloody clothing, the murder weapons, mass et cetera,

549
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: and both are convicted and sentenced to life in prison

550
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: without the possibility of parole. It shows them. So here

551
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: we are in twenty twenty.

552
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 2: So there's as of sixteen, they've been arrested, right, yeah, sixteen,

553
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 2: and were they in they were arrested, they were in

554
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:39,959
Speaker 2: prison in custody during the trial. Right since then and

555
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: up until today, Yes, they've never been let out.

556
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: No, so they have been in prison.

557
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: And they were sixteen for life without parole.

558
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: Right, But I do believe so they also talk about

559
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: this in the third part. So there was a Supreme

560
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: Court decision that happened during the timeframe that they were

561
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: in prison.

562
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: For life after conviction.

563
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: They were convicted, and I believe the Supreme Court had

564
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: a decision that said that putting miners in prison for

565
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: life without parole would be cruel and unusual punishment, right.

566
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 2: Unlike the murder that's not cruel in anything, right, punishment.

567
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: So, the United States is the only nation that allows

568
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 1: people who committed crimes as miners to be sentenced to

569
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: life in prison without the possibility of parole, a punishment

570
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: widely criticized under international law. Critics argue that condemning children

571
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: to spend the rest of their lives behind bars ignores

572
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: research showing that young people differ from adults in development, judgment,

573
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: and susceptibility to peer influence. Despite this, thousands of individuals

574
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: in the US have received life without parole sentences for

575
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: crimes committed as youth, and these penalties disproportionately affect black

576
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: and brown teenagers. So over the past two decades, the

577
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: US Supreme Court has limited some of the harsh sentences

578
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: for minors under the Eighth Amendments ban on Cruel and

579
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 1: unusual punishment. The most recent court case is this twenty

580
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: twenty one Supreme Court decision that reaffirmed that age must

581
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: be considered in sentencing, but allowed states flexibility and how

582
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: they evaluate youth related factors. So the way I understood

583
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: it was, they say it's cruel and unusual punishment. They

584
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: also didn't I believe in some of the earlier decisions

585
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: they didn't say whether it was retroactive or not, so

586
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: then they had to the latest decision. I believe they

587
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 1: did say it's retroactive, so you can go back and

588
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: reassess and re sentence, right, but it's.

589
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: Not automatic taking away the sentencing or lessening sensing they're

590
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: saying that they now kind of they can research and

591
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: look into it and then make a decision, right, And

592
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 2: I disagree with that. I don't. I mean, that's pretty

593
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 2: horrific stuff. And then it's like, oh, they were just kids,

594
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 2: they're still growing.

595
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: It's called permanent incorrigibility, which is a very long word

596
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: or a big word too. It refers to the legal,

597
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: yet highly debated concept that a juvenile offender is so

598
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: deeply ingrained in criminal behavior that they are incapable of reform.

599
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: They were saying that was the standard of whether they

600
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: deserve life without parole. It has to be shown that

601
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: they had permanent incorrigibility, meaning that no matter what rehabilitation.

602
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: He's going to commit the crime again. So just keep

603
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: him in jail, but if he can be reformed, let

604
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: him out.

605
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: Right. So, so that was the standard, and they let

606
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: the states decide whether there's a showing a permanent.

607
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: If they were a little bit younger, they'd probably move

608
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: more likely to get out. Oh yeah, because they definitely have.

609
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: They were eighteen and twenty one or nineteen and twenty.

610
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: From all that I remember you've described, And I'm not

611
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: getting into whether they should over or shouldn't over or whatever.

612
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 2: But all that they did in prison, knowing that they

613
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 2: were never going to get out, they certainly made some changes.

614
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, so I wanted to know. So

615
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: you think that even though someone is a minor, that they.

616
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: Should a crime like that like that, or they document

617
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: it and they have fun with it, and they scare

618
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 2: her and they they want her to die a horrific death.

619
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: You're saying without parole.

620
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah. I don't want to I don't think

621
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: they should be out. I don't think they should be

622
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 2: out somewhere smiling and having fun and having a nice meal.

623
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: Well here's the other thing too, And this is what

624
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: the judge said, and this is why they were sentenced

625
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: to life without parole is because he said also on

626
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: these videos they they and this evidence that they found,

627
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: they also found a list of other students at their

628
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: high school that were like a hit list, a kill less.

629
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: But then on these videos that they found, they also

630
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: found evidence of them stalking other girls in their class,

631
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: going to their house and watching them and making a

632
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: video talking about they could wait for them to be alone.

633
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: Because the plan was, I believe, was to commit this

634
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: type of crime multiple times. So and that's what the

635
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: judge said. Life.

636
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: That goes against this fancy word you said, right, because

637
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: it shows that they want to commit it again and

638
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 2: again it's not an isolated one time thing. They actually

639
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 2: might Yeah. Well, I don't know. This is just that's tough.

640
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: That's tough because it could be that they changed. It

641
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 2: could be that twenty years later they go from sixteen

642
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: to thirty six and that they've changed. But I don't know.

643
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: That's tough. And I would respect the family if they

644
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: said not to let him out, and I would understand

645
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 2: if they got out.

646
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: I guess I.

647
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: Don't know, but if that happened to my kid.

648
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would be at the parole hearing throwing down.

649
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 2: They wouldn't be coming out.

650
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: So the case became widely known as the Scream murder

651
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: because Draper and Adam Chick claimed inspiration from the horror franchise.

652
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: Cassie's later filed a lawsuit against the local school district

653
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: related to events leading up to the crime. The Idaho

654
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,719
Speaker 1: Supreme Court ruled that the school district was not liable

655
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: for failing to prevent the murder of Casside despite warnings

656
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: of a column bine like shooting. The justices said that

657
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: the murder, though tragic, was unforseeable and absent the benefit

658
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: of hindsight. But as far as her being killed in

659
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: a remote house, like not at school, It's not.

660
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: Like she was complaining these boys keep bothering me, they

661
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 2: keep recording me, they're stalking me, and the school did nothing.

662
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: They're making threats.

663
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, No, I mean, actually she was friends with them.

664
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: She invited them over. That's the part. That's the sad part,

665
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: is that she invited them into her home because they

666
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,479
Speaker 1: were all friends and the other reason. Just to go

667
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: to backtrack a little bit, we talked about how they

668
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: bought the movie tickets as an alibi. But then when

669
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: you watch the video of them being interrogated by the police,

670
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: the police officers said, what was the movie about? Yeah,

671
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: they couldn't well, probably remember something, yeah, but they were asking, okay,

672
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: what was like what movie? They were like, well, what

673
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: was the movie about? And neither one of them. That's

674
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: when you didn't do enough research on your alibi. They

675
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: couldn't answer a single question about the plot, about the actors,

676
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: about who was in it, about anything. So then they

677
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: changed their story and said Okay, I didn't want to

678
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: tell you this because we didn't want to get in trouble.

679
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: But we didn't really go see a movie. We were

680
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: breaking into cars. So then they said that they were

681
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: they were. They bought the movie tickets and then didn't

682
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: go to the movie. They were just out breaking into

683
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: cars they called I don't remember what they called it,

684
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: but they said they were going around seeing which cars

685
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: were open. They would steal stuff out of the cars.

686
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: Stealing from cars is what it's called.

687
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: Stealing from cars anyway. But then they were asking well,

688
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: like how many cars, what was the color of the car,

689
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: what did you take from the car? And also, I remember,

690
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: I believe this is when one of the parents when

691
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: they brought up that they were stealing from the cars,

692
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: and one of the parents was like the interviews over

693
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: like that, no more, no more questions. So, you know,

694
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: as a parent, that's also a difficult position to be in.

695
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: You're sitting in the interrogation room while they're asking your

696
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: kid question.

697
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: Well, the thing to do is, and I'm not defending

698
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 2: these kids, but the thing to do is just get

699
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 2: an attorney right away. Why would you play games of

700
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 2: kind of answering? Maybe this test mate, you know, an attorney,

701
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: and then you don't answer any questions the attorney.

702
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: Because here's the thing, everyone is apprehensive to get an

703
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 1: attorney in the beginning. They look because it thinks, because

704
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: they think it makes you look guilty. So they're like,

705
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: because it does, because it does. Absolutely. They even say that.

706
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 2: I'm say that all the time, Like, if someone doesn't

707
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 2: give you an ID, it's usual because they're hiding something.

708
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: Right, And so if someone gets an attorney, it's usually

709
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: because they that guilty.

710
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 2: But that can't be used against you in court. When

711
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 2: you go to court, you can't say we ceased questioning

712
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: because they got an attorney. They pled the fifth You

713
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 2: can't say any of that in court. So I just know,

714
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 2: get an attorney.

715
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: If if this was my child, and my child was

716
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: involved in something.

717
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: That I don't know, if it was that bad, I'd

718
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: be locked lock them up?

719
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, you would you would be like, lock them up? Yeah,

720
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: you wouldn't even get your kid an attorney.

721
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, you know what, I don't know

722
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 2: how I would act until something like that happened, and

723
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: well he doesn't.

724
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: The problem is with like, for example, Brian Draper's parents.

725
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: They probably most likely believe his story where he's changed

726
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: it was just there.

727
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 2: Every parent in the beginning, including us, is going to

728
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: be quick to side with them. Right.

729
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: He's saying, I was just there, but I'm not the

730
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: one that stabbed her. It was all Tory. Tory did it, right,

731
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: So they're probably lies.

732
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 2: These daggers and the blood on my hands.

733
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: And the video of me saying but of course they're

734
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: gonna say, Okay, then you know what, you need to

735
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: go in and you need to be honest, and you

736
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: need to tell the police the truth, and we'll go

737
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: with you. And then they're sitting in there and then

738
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: the story it's like, wait, you went to a movie. Wait,

739
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: you don't know any of the movie. Wait you were

740
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: breaking into cars, you know what I mean.

741
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: Like then, well it's like Chris Watts, remember Chris Watts

742
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: the other week when his father came in, it was

743
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 2: like you gotta you gotta fess up, you got to

744
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: tell the truth. Like that guy didn't get an attorney,

745
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 2: nor did he try to. He was just like, something's here,

746
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 2: tell us the truth, right, because I think that father,

747
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 2: when I saw it, it came off like it wasn't about

748
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 2: getting away with anything, or my son or anything. It

749
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 2: was about what happened and it needs you need to

750
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:29,919
Speaker 2: tell it and then we need to deal with it.

751
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: Right. Well, it's a good thing that Chris Watts respected

752
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: his dad and listened because.

753
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 2: I gave I remember when I first saw I gave

754
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 2: kudos to his dad for thinking there's a crime here

755
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: and you need to tell us what happened and then

756
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: we need to deal with it.

757
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: Well, while we're paying respect to dads, we also have

758
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: to remember Wade Wilson's dad. Do you remember the good

759
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: looking Oh, the guy with the skull on his face?

760
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 2: Consider that good looking? He golls on faces?

761
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: No, he he was good looking, he was charming, he

762
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: was good looking. He had ale the wives, Wade's wives,

763
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: lots of women thought he was good looking. Anyway, My

764
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 1: point was his dad. Remember he called his dad. Yeah,

765
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: and his dad was the one that asked him where

766
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: I was, got the address, told the police yeah, remember,

767
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: and then that's how they caught him. So you know

768
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: his dad did.

769
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: That's what I have to do. If my kids commit

770
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: to cry, I got to like get him to confess.

771
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's your role as dad, all right, So Draper

772
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: and Adam Chick remain have remained incarcerated and Idahope prisons

773
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: until today. They are now thirty six years old. You know,

774
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: it showed interviews with I did.

775
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 2: See those because when you were watching, I saw some

776
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 2: of that.

777
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.

778
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 2: You kind of feel for them because they were very adamant,

779
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 2: like I'm not that person anymore. This I was a

780
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 2: kid like almost like I don't remember if they said

781
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 2: this because they're like that was wrong. I'm not like

782
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 2: that anymore. I don't want to do. I'm a different person.

783
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 2: I've had twenty years since then. But it's like, well, yeah,

784
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: and I'm still did.

785
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: I know, you know, I be honest, I don't know exactly.

786
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: This is very gray. It's a very gray area for me.

787
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: It's not very black and white. I can't say they

788
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 1: deserve life in prison without parole because I do watch them,

789
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: and I feel the remorse, and I feel badly for

790
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 1: their families that they never get to have them home again.

791
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 2: And I, oh, I don't feel bad for the families.

792
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: You don't feel badly for the dad crying outside the

793
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: prison that his son devastated this family, But then he also.

794
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: I feel bad for her family.

795
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: I feel bad for both families.

796
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 2: It's tragic all around.

797
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

798
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess on the list of who to

799
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: feel bad for, it's not them.

800
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I do believe you can feel badly for

801
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: the family of the perpetrator too. I mean those that

802
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: mom and.

803
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: Day, they're all suffering. There's no doubt about it.

804
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: I mean, those kids one night acting stupid, trying to

805
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 1: you know, nact a movie and being obsessed with Columbine

806
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: led them to the rest of their life in prison.

807
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 2: I saw the father crying and really being heartbroken, and

808
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: I found it to be very genuine. Yeah, and I

809
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 2: felt bad for him because I okay, here I just

810
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: said I but I felt bad for him because he

811
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 2: was suffering, and he took on the responsibility like did

812
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: I do anything wrong? Should I spend more time at home?

813
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 2: You know, I was working, Like he knew. I'm the

814
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: parent I raised this child that did harm. So he

815
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 2: took on some accountability. But then when he said that

816
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 2: he would switch places with him in a heartbeat, which

817
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 2: I guess is what any parent would or should do.

818
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: I get that. But he was outside the prison. I

819
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: think he was in the field talking. He was crying,

820
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: and he was like he would in a heartbeat, and

821
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: he said it over and over again, and I believed

822
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 2: him that he meant it. But then it's like, but

823
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 2: your son, so you do think your son should be free?

824
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 2: You've forgotten that he's murdered this girl in such a

825
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 2: horrific manner, almost in a laughing manner, for their own enjoyment,

826
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: and then now you think he should be out. I

827
00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 2: don't know.

828
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but when he says he would take a place,

829
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: that means I think he just meant he would bear

830
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: the brunt of like whatever pain his son is going through,

831
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: like he would take that on.

832
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I'm talking about, I know, but I don't.

833
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: I don't mean avince literally that is that he means

834
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: that his son should walk free.

835
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 2: No, that's exactly what he said. He said that I

836
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 2: can go there right now and he could walk out.

837
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: I would do it right now. It is exactly what

838
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: he said.

839
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: Now, all right, Well, I.

840
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 2: Don't know, you know what there's doron. No answers. We're

841
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 2: just trying to process it and talk about it. But

842
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 2: it's tough.

843
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: Well, you know what else he did. The way I

844
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: understood it was when he was talking about when he

845
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: was younger. During that time period, I believe he said

846
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: he was gone a lot for work, and he was

847
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: working a lot. I think he was making a lot

848
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: of money. At least that's the way. That was the

849
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: way I took it.

850
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: He started questioning if he was parenting enough right.

851
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: And he was talking about how he was doing well,

852
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: and I think my interpretation was that he was making

853
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: a lot of money. Then he said after his son

854
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: committed this murder and then was put in prison, that

855
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: nothing meant anything to him anymore. He said he got

856
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: rid of all of his possessions, even real estate.

857
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 2: I remember that he gave it away.

858
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: Didn't even say to that he like, he didn't even

859
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: try to make money. He just gave everything away.

860
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 2: And I kind of I felt that to be commendable,

861
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 2: Like he realized, like, you know, there's something tragic here.

862
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 2: They're sending horrific for everyone here, and I'm gonna worry

863
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 2: about like whether I need new bedding or not, you know,

864
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 2: or I'm gonna, you know, go to work, Like what's

865
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 2: the meaning of everything?

866
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess at that point there is no meaning

867
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,439
Speaker 1: to anything anymore. I mean, money doesn't mean anything. Having

868
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: a nice lifestyle doesn't mean anything.

869
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 2: Anything beyond your basic survival.

870
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so he gave everything away. I could tell

871
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:40,959
Speaker 1: just by the way he looks, in the way he talked,

872
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 1: that he for the past twenty years had been suffering,

873
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: probably suffering more than I.

874
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 2: Found it very genuine, and I didn't really find him

875
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 2: to be selfish or anything. I found it. I didn't

876
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 2: find him to be justifying his son's knocks. No, just anyway, Okay,

877
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,439
Speaker 2: so this is the child that was adopted, right, Yes,

878
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: he was abortid nature versus nurture. That child was adopted

879
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: by another And I know this family to be good.

880
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 2: I'm not saying they're they're bad family. But if the

881
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: child was adopted, well, we know, if he moved to Idaho, Ohio,

882
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 2: it might have been the same result, right, because there's

883
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,720
Speaker 2: a lot of murders in there, really are Okay anyway,

884
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 2: Oh right, No, really, if this child was adopted by

885
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: another good family, what would have happened? What he is

886
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: he destined to murder?

887
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: I don't know that's a good question, because what you're

888
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 1: saying is he was adopted by this nice Lds family.

889
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: It's very religious family.

890
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 2: Obviously, the family very dedicated to the child, and there

891
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 2: are a lot of work to adopt a child, so

892
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 2: obviously they cared for a child.

893
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: Right. The question is if it was a different family,

894
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: would the exact same thing have happened, which means it's

895
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: it's not nurture, it's nature. He right, I know, I'm

896
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: agreeing with you. I'm saying the question is, was he

897
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: just innately evil?

898
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 2: I'm going to guess. No, I'm going to guess something

899
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 2: happened along the way, and it could have not been home.

900
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 2: It could have been getting into the horror movies. It

901
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 2: could have been his friend, it could have been the

902
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 2: building each other up. I don't know, but it reminds

903
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 2: me of the Twilight Zone episode where this guy goes

904
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 2: back in time and then he comes to I don't

905
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 2: the details escape me because I was very young when

906
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 2: I saw this, and it was the reboot of the

907
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 2: Twilight Zone, which doesn't really count because it's not really

908
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 2: Rod Serling. But nonetheless, he realizes he could stop Hitler

909
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: because he's at the time of when Hitler's born. So

910
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 2: he searches out and he finds Hitler as a baby, right,

911
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 2: and he thinks, I'm gonna basically save a human race. Yeah,

912
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 2: which is a good thing. So he goes through the

913
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 2: effort and he casts to kidnap a baby, Hitler, Hitler,

914
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 2: and then he can't come to killing the child because

915
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 2: he's not a killer. So I think he puts him

916
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: in the river or something lets him float away. Another

917
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: couple finds this baby and they think they and they

918
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 2: always longed for a child, and they're going to care

919
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: for this child. Oh yeah, that's what it was. So

920
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: then he thinks, this is better. I'll give him to

921
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 2: another family to be raised by another family. He will,

922
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: so then he'll be different, right, and then they name

923
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 2: him aid Off, the end Off, and that's the end

924
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: pretty much.

925
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so it won't change and that in.

926
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: That storytelling, Well, he pulled him out, put him in

927
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: a different family, thinking he changed the course of history,

928
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 2: and it didn't work. Well.

929
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: The thing is, I believe if you want to try

930
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: to do a psychoanalysis of these two boys, maybe Brian

931
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: had an issue with being adopted, feeling abandoned. He knew

932
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 1: he was an adopted child, growing yes, not not knowing

933
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: where he fits in. And then you have the other

934
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: kid who also was gay but was I don't know

935
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: he wasn't out, and I think as far as I know,

936
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,399
Speaker 1: this town that they were in, there were no other

937
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: He didn't have family, He didn't have anybody to relate to.

938
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: There wasn't anyone at school, there were no family members,

939
00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 1: There wasn't anyone in his life that was great.

940
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 2: Didn't know either.

941
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: No. Well, his mom claims that she knew that it

942
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: was obvious, but I don't think there was ever a

943
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: conversation or anything.

944
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 2: So from that point of view, he had no one

945
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 2: to connect with.

946
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: Right, So you have these two outcasts that don't feel

947
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: like they belong. You've got one that's adopted, one that's

948
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 1: gay but doesn't know how to articulate it or deal

949
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: with it or live that lifestyle. And then so then

950
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: they connect and they find some type of common ground

951
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: between them talking about murdering people. And then you know,

952
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: you said it correctly before when you talked about how

953
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: it's like they just excite each other and pump each

954
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 1: other up. I don't think individually, by themselves they would

955
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: have gone into that house and murdered someone. But when

956
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: you have someone saying, let's do it, let's record it,

957
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: let's talk about we're gonna do this, We're gonna then it.

958
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 2: How long they spent time together before this murder took place? Like,

959
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: were they was it like one school year where they

960
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 2: longtime friends.

961
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: I don't think they'd been friends long. I remember that.

962
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: I don't think I had been very long. But I

963
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: think once they found each other, it was like very

964
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: kind of fast and furious, like it was just they

965
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: were together all the time and always talking about scary

966
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 1: movies and horror movies and weapons and all the things.

967
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 1: So and then they probably fed into that and then

968
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: started watching Columbine videos together. I wasn't either. I don't.

969
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: I can't watch scary movies. I saw you just like

970
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: I like real murder. I don't like that fake stuff.

971
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't. I'm not into horror anyway.

972
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: Also, the kind of question I have for everyone out

973
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,240
Speaker 1: there listening, what is your thoughts on juveniles and life

974
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: without parole? I would like to know your thoughts on that.

975
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: Do you think that juveniles should be sentenced to life

976
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: without parole? Do you think because they're a juvenile that

977
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: they should be given an opportunity later in life to

978
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: see if they're rehabilitated. Do you think a crime can

979
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: be so heinous and so terrible that they deserve to

980
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: spend the rest of their life in jail. I would

981
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 1: just like to know what you guys think about that.

982
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like to know the nature versus nurture.

983
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: Or nature versus nurture, lots to talk about it in

984
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: the I think it's both.

985
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't think anyone's born or murderer, right all.

986
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: Right, thanks guys for listening to our episode today. As always,

987
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: you can follow legally Brunette, so please make sure to

988
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 1: do that. Also, we have a new spin off called

989
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: Till Death Do Us Part where we discuss husband's killing

990
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: wives or wives killing husbands. So if you have any recommendations,

991
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: please let us know. But as far as my research shows,

992
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: there's a whole plethora that's a unhappy that's.

993
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 2: Just never ending.

994
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: We'll just have lots of material for that. Also, if

995
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: you listen to us on two teas, just be aware

996
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: that not all of our episodes go into two teas,

997
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 1: so you'll have to also come over to our own

998
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: feed Legally Brunette and listen to all of our episodes

999
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: over there. But again, thank you so much for listening,

1000
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: and thank you for your DMS. I appreciate your feedback

1001
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: and thank you for your recommendations, and thank you so

1002
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 1: much for listening.

1003
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 2: M