1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power colli 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:11,159 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: Emily Jay Him Emily Chang in San Francisco, and this 4 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Technology coming up in the next hour. A 5 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: conflict that will only get more brutal. US officials warn 6 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: more indiscriminate tactics coming from Russian forces in an attempt 7 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: to suppress the Ukrainian resistance. We're live from the White House. 8 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: Plus Apple stopping all products sales in Russia, saying the 9 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: company stands with all of the people who are suffering 10 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: as a result of the violence. And Airbnb says it 11 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: will help shelter one thousand Ukrainian refugees who fled their 12 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: country as Russian forces continue their assault. My converse station 13 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: with AIRBNBC O Brian Chesky. Later this hour, Twitter announcing 14 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: that it's now labeling tweets affiliated with Russian state media, 15 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: and effort the company says to quote significantly reduced the 16 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: circulation of content pushed by the Russian government. Twitter also 17 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: saying it will put labels on other state affiliated media 18 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: outlets in coming weeks. My next guest says this is 19 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: an important step as we examine the role of disinformation 20 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: on social media. Joining me now Renee Arresta. She is 21 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: a research manager at the Stanford Internet Observatory. She spent 22 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: years studying disinformation and even testified before Congress on these issues. Rene, 23 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: great to have you back with us, so talk to 24 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: us about the significance of labeling state affiliated media and 25 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: is labeling enough or should it be blocked entirely to 26 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: stop the spread of disinformation? These are really hard questions, Emily, 27 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: thanks for having me on UM. First of all, the 28 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: labeling state media initiatives actually begin at an early when 29 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: we started to see accounts out of China, Chinese state 30 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: media using Facebook, using Facebook ads in particular to push 31 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: false and misleading claims about COVID to audiences worldwide. That 32 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: was one of the initial events that kind of precipitated 33 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: the idea that people who are receiving information should know 34 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: what the source is, particularly if the source is from 35 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: an account link to a foreign government. A lot of 36 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: the conversation about disinformation on social media focuses on the 37 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: bots and the trolls and the kind of covert chatter 38 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 1: that comes and goes. You know, we see waves of 39 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: accounts come and then get taken down, and those accounts 40 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: are interesting. Those accounts can potentially shape a conversation, maybe 41 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: participate in making something trend. But ultimately, state media accounts 42 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: have standing audiences in the tens to hundreds of millions 43 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: of followers. And these are the mouthpieces, the very overt 44 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 1: attributable broadcast mouthpieces that governments have built up over time 45 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: to put their view of events out to the world. 46 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: Uh in a conflict, Sorry, go ahead, what do you 47 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: let's let's talk about that in the current conflict. What 48 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: are you seeing from Russian state run media that is 49 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: particularly alarming? And how widespread is it on bague social platforms? 50 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: So what we're seeing is is states using their media 51 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: outlets to target different types of messages to different people 52 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: depending on where they are. So Russia has not really 53 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: done a whole lot targeting Western audiences in this particular conflict. 54 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: We are not the the keep the audiences that they 55 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: consider most relevant. They're really focusing their communication domestically on 56 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: their own citizens, trying to create support for a conflict, 57 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: and then they're focusing near to the conflict itself, trying 58 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: to mislead the people of Ukraine, trying to make them 59 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: think that their government is leaving, that their fighters are 60 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: giving up, that that you know, that that the that 61 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: the resistance is collapsing to demoralize the public there, and 62 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: that is where, and particularly in a situation like this, 63 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: some of the false and misleading information, including that put 64 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: out by state media, can have a significant degree of 65 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: harm in the conflict area itself. So Western audiences or 66 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: non regional audiences are a wholly separate issue. They may 67 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: be trying to shape public perception, but ultimately the thing 68 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: that is the real concern that platforms are trying to 69 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: be aware of is information from Russia targeting people in 70 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: Ukraine or targeting people in the immediate region, because they're 71 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: trying to use the information more to bolster the shooting war. 72 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: And to your understanding, what has the impact of that been. 73 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we've heard reports from folks in Russia, 74 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: folks who have family in Russia that they don't many 75 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: of them don't have any idea the extent of what's 76 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: really going on. We've seen the same the same commentary 77 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: from people from even captured soldiers who say we were 78 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: told that they would welcome us, we were not told 79 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: that this is that this is what we were going 80 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: to be going there for us. There's a whole lot 81 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: to kind of unpack and and and try to understand 82 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: in that dynamic. But one thing that's been really remarkable 83 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: about this is the Ukrainian government, Ukrainian ministers constantly on Twitter, 84 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: constantly on social platforms, on Telegram and other places, telling 85 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: the world what is actually happening, actively pre bunking. You 86 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: have President of Atlanski uh regularly streaming himself, you know, 87 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,679 Speaker 1: reinforcing the fact we are here, we are fighting. And 88 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: so in that, in that action, in that that quite 89 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: visible use of social media from the Ukrainian government, from 90 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: the people of Ukraine, you are seeing a pretty remarkable 91 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: pushback against against Russia's efforts here. And this is where 92 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: this question of what should be blocked, what should be allowed, um, 93 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: you know, the people are spending a lot of time 94 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: actually kind of flooding the pages of Russian state media, 95 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: leaving pro Ukraine comments at this point. So I think 96 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: the decision to to respond to governments in Europe and 97 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: others who want to see content either made inaccessible or 98 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: um or or temporarily blocked in certain regions makes sense 99 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: in a particular part of the world that maybe is 100 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: more directly impacted by certain to misinformation versus what we're 101 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: seeing in the West, where you know, American audiences can 102 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: still go and see this content if they're so inclined. Absolutely, 103 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: the way that presidents has been communicating with his people 104 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: and with people around the world have been incredibly powerful. 105 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: What do you think the platform should be doing? I mean, 106 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: Meta announced it stopped recommending Russian state media to Facebook 107 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: and Instagram users. Is that enough enough to do it now? 108 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: Should it be you know, you know, last beyond uh, 109 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: you know, when this war, hopefully this war is over. 110 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: That's a really challenging question. For a long time, We've 111 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: had this idea, you know, in America, UM that under 112 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: something like the Foreign Agent Registration Act, we should know 113 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: what foreign governments are saying, we should be able to 114 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: receive that information, that communication. But in a time of 115 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: crisis such as this, in a time in which life 116 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: and death decisions can come about as a result of 117 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: people seeing incorrect information. Uh, there are rules that are 118 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: being put into play in the short term that need 119 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: to be more carefully considered as we evaluate where to 120 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: go in the long term. Now you talked about how 121 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: difficult it is to discern misinformation on TikTok in particular. 122 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: Is there something different about TikTok that makes it more 123 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: of a minefield when it comes to misinformation and why? 124 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: Look is you know, most people consume TikTok in their 125 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: app it's um. You know, I opened up my TikTok 126 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: the other night and my the very first video that 127 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: began to play was a video game and it had 128 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: a nameless account. It was a shooting video game, first 129 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: person shooter, UM. And they were claiming that this was 130 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: a scene of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. And 131 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: you know Twitter has been pretty good about either labeling 132 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: or throttling these you know Facebook as well, But on 133 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: on TikTok, there it is with you know, kind of 134 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: a million likes, and it's right there that the first 135 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: thing that that place and so the other thing that 136 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: TikTok does not have is actually that that very basic 137 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: state media labeling. UM. So when there is content that 138 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: is produced by propagandists, the audience doesn't know. So this 139 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: combination of content being repurposed, UM, content being put out 140 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: by a you know, by an unverified or actively um, 141 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: you know, incentivized to harm kind of sourced. UH. The 142 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: the people who are receiving the content on the platform 143 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: can't tell that. It takes them a lot of extra 144 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: time to go and try to reverse image search a 145 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: clip from a video, which is not something that is 146 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: native or easy to do on a mobile phone when 147 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: the information is being pushed to you. So I think 148 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: that TikTok really lads it's partners in the social media 149 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: of the big social media players in not having these 150 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: policies in place. And more importantly, we're seeing Meta and 151 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: we're seeing Twitter reacting very quickly to UH to either 152 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: take down networks that they've found or to come up 153 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: with these new labeling policies that are specifically tailors with 154 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: the current events on the ground. And we don't really 155 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: see TikTok following suit in that regard. Interesting that you 156 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: see TikTok being behind there. Thank you for helping us 157 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: navigate some of these really thorny issues. Were NAT arrest 158 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: or to arrest a researcher at the Stamford Internet Observatory. 159 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: Good to have you with us. Coming up is the 160 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: Zoom Glory over. We're gonna talk with Zoom CFO Kelly 161 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: Stuckelberg after the company's projected sales this quarter fell short 162 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 1: of Wall Street estimates. How it can earn back investor confidence? 163 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: That's next? This is Bloomberg. While as more employees returned 164 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: to work in their offices, questions loom about whether Zooms 165 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: appealed during the pandemic era will fade. Zoom shares have 166 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: declined by more than from their October high. How will 167 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: the company sustain growth beyond the pandemic boom? CFO Kelly 168 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: Stuckelberg with a spell for more. Kelly, I have to 169 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 1: ask you, given the geopolitical situation, your reaction to what 170 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: we're seeing in Ukraine. Obviously there's a humanitarian concern, but 171 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: how are you viewing the impact on the economy and 172 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: to potentially Zoom's business. So, first of all, of course, 173 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: our how our hearts go out to everyone impacted by 174 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: this unfortunate situation. We feel feel lucky as an organization 175 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: in a company that we don't have any employees that 176 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: are directly impacted me the region. We do have some 177 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: of their family members that are there, so we're doing 178 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: everything that we can to help, and we have very 179 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: minimal exposure from a revenue perspective in either of the 180 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: two regions. So in terms of the impact that we're 181 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: we expect directly on our business, it's really dimonimous. So 182 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: let's talk about Zoom. You know, as I said, there 183 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: are questions about whether the glory days are over, and 184 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure that you will disagree. You're planning to stop 185 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: reporting the number of customers with overten employees, pivot to 186 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: reporting just the number of enterprise customers. Can you explain 187 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 1: that change and what it means for this bigger picture? Sure? 188 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: So first of all, I just want to high that 189 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: we were very pleased with our results for f y 190 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: twenty two that we reported yesterday, growing year over year 191 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: over four point one billion dollars, and as you highlighted, 192 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: we really have seen tremendous growth into parts of our business, 193 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: which is the enterprise, which is that that it's touched 194 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: by our direct our channel and our I S D partners, 195 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: and then our online business, which is now protect prigical 196 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: cent of our business. So we are shifting metrics as 197 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: you mentioned, to focus on the enterprise, which is this 198 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: is really where we see the long term sustainable growth 199 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: of our business, and we saw strong performance here with 200 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: you know, customers with more than um hundred thousand dollars 201 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: of tradeling Twelveland revenue accelerating. We saw strength with Zoom 202 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: Phone that had a record quarterer with over five fifty 203 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: seats added, and so we're really excited about the future. 204 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: We also last week announced Zoom Contact Center, which is 205 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 1: our cloud contact centered solution, which is fully integrated into 206 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: the Zoom platform. So this is really a big year 207 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: of transition for Zoom, as we're moving from being a 208 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: killer meing app to a platform for communications and collaborations. 209 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: Right now, I'm curious if you can clarify zoom stance 210 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: on Ukraine. I noticed that some parts of the country, 211 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: the separatist Aias, Crimea, etcetera, and not serviced by Zoom, 212 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: but Russia is not on the list of banned countries. 213 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: Can you explain that? So we do have some business 214 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,239 Speaker 1: in in the region of Russia that is mostly through resellers, 215 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: and we will continue, of course to comply with all 216 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: the US laws and sanctions and we're very closely monitoring those. 217 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: Is there any consideration of self sanctioning. Obviously, we saw 218 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: Apple take a dramatic move today forward as well, We 219 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: certainly internally keep discussing all the options in how do 220 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: we best support everyone that's in you know, ukn Ukraine region, 221 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: and how do we do what's appropriate and what should 222 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: we do as a good corporate citizens. So as this 223 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,719 Speaker 1: is a you know, very quickly evolving um situation, as 224 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: you well know, we keep discussing it and monitoring it 225 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: and trying to make decision in real time basis. And 226 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: you know, to this big ut question you mentioned zoom 227 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: phone earlier, talk to us about how well these ancillary 228 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: ancillary businesses are doing and whether you see that sort 229 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: of padding, you know, any lack of growth you might 230 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: see in the core part of the business over the 231 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: longer term. You know. So our strategy has been from 232 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: the beginning to start resoom meetings and then continue to 233 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: expand our share of wallet from our customers by selling 234 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: them additional services, and zoom phone is a perfect example 235 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: of that. We also see zo zoom rooms as organizations 236 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: are thinking about welcoming their employees back to the office. 237 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: The conference room strategy is really key to make sure 238 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: that as they have employees working remotely, that it's inclusive 239 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: and that they're bringing them together in a way that 240 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: works for everybody, those are inside the room and those 241 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: that are without. Also, just as we expect if you 242 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: work to be hybrid, we also expect events to be 243 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: hybrid as well. And our new product, Zoom Events when 244 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: g a last year and that's really as we look 245 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: forward to these large events and people want to come together, 246 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: but they also want to have that virtual complince. Okay, 247 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: sooom CFL Kelly Steckleberg. Always great to have you here. 248 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: Thank you Kelly for taking the time to join us. 249 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: Airbnb is offering free shelter for up to one hundred 250 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: thousand Ukrainian refugees fleeing the Russian invasion of their country. 251 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: CEO Brian Chesky telling me he plans to work with 252 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: neighboring European states to provide long term stays as well. 253 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: Take a listen to my conversation with him earlier today. 254 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: We announced yesterday that Airbnb and partnership with airb dot 255 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: org and our host community have a goal to house 256 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: up to a hundred thousand refugees fleeing Ukraine. Now, since 257 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: we made that announcement, we've had over thirty thousand people 258 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: visit the page to learn about how to be a 259 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: host or to donate, and we're just trying to get 260 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: more word out because basically the name of the game 261 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: is the more houses we have, the more refugees we 262 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: can house. What's the feedback are getting from governments from 263 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: border crossings about the situation that these refugees find themselves 264 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: in and the crosshairs of a war. Yeah, I mean 265 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: we've reached out to fourteen different governments in Central Eastern Europe, 266 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: governments like Poland and Hungary and Romania and Germany, and 267 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: what they're telling us is mostly thank you, because there 268 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: are last reports I heard over six hundred thousand refugees 269 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: that have been fleeing Ukraine, and so these governments need 270 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: to find a way to house them, and we can 271 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: provide as an infrastructure. You know, we've housed fifty four 272 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: thousand refugees for free since we started air VnB, and 273 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: we've housed over a hundred thousand people in need for 274 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: all different events for free. So I think we can 275 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: be We're being viewed, I hope, as a solution to 276 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: a problem that they have. We can be a great partner, 277 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: and I think they're appreciative of the support and the help. 278 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: What's been the response from in these countries. Has there 279 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: been an outpouring of support. Yeah, I mean it's just 280 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: starting obviously in the last point for hours, but we 281 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: have we have had a large response so far. And 282 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: just to give you a point of reference, two years ago, 283 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: when the pandemic initially of course broke out, um, we 284 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: were we worked with the French government for example, to 285 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: provide housing for workers in the front line. Tens of 286 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: thousands of hosts stepped up. We had thousands of tens 287 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: of thousands of hosts step up provide housing for Afghan refugees, 288 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: and we're expecting a pretty big response. Again. The main 289 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: thing we need to do is just make sure that 290 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: in the kind of flood of all the noise going on, 291 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: that people who have homes that have availability in these 292 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: countries know that they can take in refugees. Now, I 293 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: know AIRB, B and D has a significant number of 294 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: listings in Ukraine given the number of short term rentals 295 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: I see in Kiev and livid in Odessa. Do you 296 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: have employees in Ukraine and what is the status of 297 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: your operations and hosts there? Yeah, we we we we 298 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: don't have employees. We don't. We don't have a meaningful 299 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: number of employees in Central Eastern Europe, were primarily in 300 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: certain hubs. Um Now, as you imagine, we have thousands 301 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: of listings and countries in all over Central and Eastern Europe, 302 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 1: and so our our big focus right now. Right now, 303 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,239 Speaker 1: we're focused on two big priorities. Number One, we were 304 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 1: trying to make sure that our hosts and our community 305 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: is stage. So we're doing a lot of outreach to 306 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: our hosting guests in countries all over central Eastern Europe. 307 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: The second focus we have is trying to house as 308 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: many refugees as probably as possible. And this entire refugee 309 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 1: effort Emily really started three days ago. You know, it 310 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: was Thursday Friday, it became apparent that there were going 311 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: to be hundreds of thousands of people fleeing Ukraine, and 312 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: so we've worked all weekend through yesterday to be able 313 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: to mobilize this effort. Now, several companies have been self sanctioning, 314 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: pulling back their business operations in Russia. We just saw 315 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: Apple pause all products sales in Russia. I know Airbnb 316 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: also has a number of listings in Russia. You consider 317 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: halting business there what kind of conversations are you having. Yeah, 318 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: I mean, as you can imagine, we have a handful 319 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: right now because we made this huge commitment to house 320 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: up to a hundred thousand refugees. That being said, I'll 321 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: say two things. Number One, um, you know we are 322 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: so we are going to cooperate with the US government. 323 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: We're in constant contact with them and support of whatever 324 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: sanctions that they intend to impose. Number Two, as a 325 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: practical matter, a lot of the sanctions have imposed on 326 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: the Russian banks in Russia have limited our ability to 327 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: do business, the ability of people in Russia to receive 328 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: money and the ability of people in Russia to pay. 329 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: So as a practical matter, a lot of our business 330 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: is probably going to be un paused just from the 331 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: inability to be able to pay. But we are looking 332 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: at other steps. As you can imagine, we're just triaging 333 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: right now. So on that note, how are you expecting 334 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: the war to impact travel overall across Europe? I mean, 335 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: what are you bracing for here? Hard to know. I 336 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: don't really know what is going to unfold over the 337 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: coming weeks and months, But what I will say is 338 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: that whatever happens in Europe, our business is incredibly resilient. 339 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: I mean, we have nearly every type of home and 340 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: nearly every type of community at nearly every price point. 341 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: And I think with the last two years have shown 342 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: is however the world changes, our business can adapt. And 343 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: so you know, we're continue to ask ourselves how can 344 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,719 Speaker 1: we help in this time and need. The most important 345 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: way we can help right now is housing people that 346 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: need a place to stay. But you know, I'm sure 347 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: this is going to have a disruption on European travel, 348 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: but we'll be able to adapt to whatever that disruption is. 349 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky. There you can catch more of 350 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: my interview with Chesskey at Bloomberg dot Com. Time now 351 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: for our crypto report. I want to bring in our 352 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: crypto Contributortionale Bostick. As we see bitcoin surging for a 353 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: second day. We've seen bitcoin decoupling from traditional markets here, 354 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: beginning to trade on its own. And is this being 355 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: influenced by what's happening and yeah, the there's a few 356 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: really interesting things happening in the market here, Emily. Have 357 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: bitcoin prices themselves getting closer now to forty four thousand 358 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: dollars really getting lift here. The last couple of days, 359 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: and if you'll take a look at the prices here, 360 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: you take a look at a bitcoin price that's risen 361 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: over the last two or three days, really much higher 362 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: than four days ago, while stocks in that period over 363 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 1: the last two days have dropped. Where there's a correlation 364 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: just about a week or so ago that looks like 365 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: it's starting to break off. I also want to take 366 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: a look here at etherorium prices, because you have a 367 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: theorium here now reaching about three thousand dollars uh, and 368 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,959 Speaker 1: it also has had a significant lift last couple of days. Now, 369 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: when you take a look at volumes, you see that 370 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: ethereum also closely tied to a lot of stable coins. 371 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: A lot of discussion around stable coins and the value 372 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: of them in this new era where there's a lot 373 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: of uncertainty. Besides ethereum, you're seeing a lift in stable 374 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 1: coins like financial US dollar and tether, and so let's 375 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: see when volumes are really very high in those assets, 376 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: how much of this consistent in the next couple of days. 377 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: All right, Shanali, stick with us. I want to continue 378 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: this conversation about crypto and the role in the Ukrainian war. 379 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: Now with our next guest Lee Droken from star Killer Capital. Lee, 380 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: You've been tweeting furiously about some of these issues, and 381 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 1: I'm curious what you read into the rise in crypto 382 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: is a surely to do with what's happening in Russia 383 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: and Ukraine? Is it because they're simply more demand there? 384 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: There's definitely a spot that that's independent of other risk assets, 385 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: and you know, as you just pointed out, the correlations 386 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: have definitely broken off. Specifically, you know, we still have 387 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: a vix equity VIX above thirty, which historically has led 388 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: to incredibly high correlations between crypto and equities. We've also seen, 389 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: you know, on chain analytics as well as spot flow 390 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: coming from different exchanges that basically says there's there's something 391 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: between three and four times the amount of volume in 392 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: ruble to BTC or these pairs on these centralizing exchanges, 393 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: and that's that's a one way trade obviously right now. 394 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: So there's definitely a bit coming out of that area 395 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: of the world for obvious reasons. People are trying to 396 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: get the hell out of rubles. How long that last 397 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 1: is definitely a question, because the Russians are cutting off, 398 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: you know, all that X flows out of the country, 399 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: and at some point you're just not going to be 400 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: able to use a card or a bank account to 401 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: put any more money into these exchanges. So look, certainly 402 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: we're seeing crypto we used to support the Ukrainian resistance 403 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: effort in incredibly powerful ways. There's also this major concern 404 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: that the Russians could use cryptocurrency to circumvent sanctions. Do 405 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: you see that as a real risk? I don't think 406 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: it's a reasonable scenario today. Come back in three or 407 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: four years from now, maybe sooner, and may be the 408 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: market is liquid and large enough to the point where 409 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: it could support that kind of evasion, but today it 410 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: just it wouldn't be possible. Basically, one, they have capital 411 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: controls on everything at this point, so you've got to 412 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: try and get it out of a bank account and 413 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: onto a centralizing exchange. That's hard enough, and in that 414 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: part of the world, there really aren't that many DEFY 415 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: direct on ramps either, and so getting into defy isn't 416 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: really that easy. But even if you were able to 417 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: get it into a ci FI exchange. So you're gonna 418 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: do this in bitcoin, which really is a great medium 419 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: of transfer given its volatility, and there really aren't enough 420 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: defy stable coin pairs between the rouble and USD or 421 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: eu R to make this a viable solution for getting 422 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: around these types of things. And so it's really up 423 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: to the CEI FI exchanges to make sure that they 424 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: are complying, you know, with all of the sanctions and 425 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: regulatory issues, and it seems like they have been so far. 426 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: It's hard to believe that somebody could get enough money 427 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: into defy at this point to really evade what they're 428 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: what they're attempting to. And I'm really curious here you 429 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: make this point on capital controls and Russia's ability to 430 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: really clamp down on people who are the ordinary citizens 431 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: who are trying to move their money into crypto, and 432 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: I'm wondering what that says more broadly about a government's 433 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: ability to stop people from transacting and cryptocurrencies when they 434 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: need to. Yeah. Well, look, there's a very good reason 435 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: why people like me deeply believe in what's going on 436 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 1: and defy, uh. And it's not for some crazy libertarian reason. 437 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: It's it's because of things like this. You know, the 438 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: United States is only one country on this earth, and 439 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: there are a lot of other places where you don't 440 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: want to be holding your entire net worth in some 441 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: you know, kangaroo currency, and the ruble has been terrible 442 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: for a decade now, so um, I think it's a 443 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: very important, you know, concept that this ecosystem ends up flourishing. 444 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: What you're also seeing right now is this battle between 445 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: centralized stable coins and decentralized algorithmic stable coins. Tera. Luna 446 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: is going crazy right now because there's a massive inflow 447 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: of capital into that protocol. Because it's a decentralized stable coin, 448 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: there is no fiat bank account that a government can 449 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: regulate and clamp down on and and take your you know, 450 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: stable coin, whereas USDC or some of these other centralized 451 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: stable coins, they can absolutely do that. There's literal dollars 452 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: sitting in a vault somewhere. So I think there's a 453 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: very interesting difference between you know, those two frameworks. Yeah, 454 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: it's interesting. Luna is definitely worth discussing at some point 455 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: against soon. But I do want to also get your 456 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: thoughts here, Lee on this idea of what you called 457 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: the cryptoization of four acts, and this idea that there 458 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: really are only a couple of currencies here that convert 459 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: easily to what extent do we see what's going on 460 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: in the world today accelerating that move from traditional foreign 461 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: exchange as we know it to crypto. Yeah, this is 462 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: absolutely inevitable. And there are a lot of things in 463 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: crypto that I don't think are completely inevitable. This is 464 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: one of them. Trading with a bank where they're taking 465 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: this huge spread for you to move dollars into euro 466 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: or yen or whatever is absolutely going to go away, 467 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: no matter how big that is. There's gonna be a 468 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: curve pool for every one of these pairs, and firms 469 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: like ours are going to provide liquidity to those pairs 470 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: and and be the capital um. It's inevitable. The spreads 471 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: will be smaller, the fees will be smaller, You'll be 472 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: able to do it instantaneously. All of the framework for 473 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: this at scale is in place today. It's literally just 474 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: a matter of liquidity in the system at this point, Lee, 475 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: you have been tweeting furiously about what's been going on 476 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: in Russia. You said earlier that you were speaking with 477 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: your family there, that your family had no clue what's 478 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: going on, zero idea what's about to happen to the economy. 479 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: All they get is government propaganda. It's scary and the 480 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: worst or wellying way. What do you think about big 481 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: text responsibility? Here? We're seeing Apple pull products from the 482 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: country forward as well. We assume there will be more. Um, 483 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: but you know, how how else can businesses step up? Yeah? 484 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: It's said my my wife's parents are sixty odd sixty, 485 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:53,640 Speaker 1: They've lived in Russia their entire lives. They're not digital natives, right, Um, 486 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: And so they're very much dependent on the specific flow 487 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: of information as is much too that country. The concept 488 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: that everybody has access to a VPN and uh, you 489 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: know good sources of information is completely false obviously. Uh. 490 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: And to expect everybody to do that would be would 491 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,120 Speaker 1: be false as well. Do big tech companies have an 492 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: obligation No, Look, their companies, they don't have an obligation 493 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: to do anything but make money. That's just the reality 494 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: of it. Do they have a moral obligation at some point? Um? 495 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: I would say that you know, each of these individual CEOs, 496 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 1: it would behoove them too at this point attempt to 497 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: do the right thing. Apple makes how many tens of 498 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: billions of dollars in profit a quarter? I mean, yeah, look, 499 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: I think at some point they have to put some 500 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: values above making. You know, what's the margin that they're 501 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: gonna lose off of clamping down on certain things to 502 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: attempt to move this along a little faster. I think 503 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: that may be smart. All right, Well, thank you for 504 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: sharing that personal experience in our hearts. Go out to 505 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,719 Speaker 1: your wife's parents. Thank you for joining us as well. 506 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: Lea drog in star Killer Capital along with Bloomberg, Shinali 507 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: Bassk appreciate it well. He made headlines and caused a 508 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: few headaches by tracking Elon Musk's jet. Now, nineteen year 509 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: old Jack Sweeney is at it again, but this time 510 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: he's tracking jets owned by some of Russia's richest oligarchs 511 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: following the invasion of Ukraine. We don't know for certain 512 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: if the millionaires and billionaires are the ones on board, 513 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: but thanks to Sweeney's programming and Twitter bots, we can 514 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: track the planes movement around the world. Join me now, 515 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: Jack Squeene, himself founder of Ground Control and tracker of billionaires. 516 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: I'm also joined by our at Ludlow. Jack, why did 517 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: you go from tracking Elon Musk's to Russian oligarks? What 518 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: are you trying to achieve here? Well, people, asked. They 519 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: knew I had the tracking ability of all these aircraft, 520 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: and I found the list of these oligarchs and putment 521 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: on and all that, so I just started tracking them 522 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: because people wanted me too. Well, it's a pretty straightforward answered, Jack. 523 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: Give us a sense of the technology that goes into this. 524 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: How do you make this happen? Yeah, so every since 525 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 1: every since like nine eleven, there's this new technology called 526 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: a sp where all these planes, all the planes are 527 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: required to transmit their location through the transponder. So there's 528 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: all these websites and companies that received this data, and 529 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: I get that data and I'm able to analyze it 530 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: in my program posted to Twitter. Now, we've noticed quite 531 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: a few of these jets going to interesting places. Are 532 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: you seeing any trends? Where? Where are they right now? 533 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: They're pretty much all over the world, Um, you know, 534 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: the United States and a few of them, i'll you know, 535 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: just from Russia to Russia, but no specific trend of 536 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: leaving Jack, you kind of answered pretty straightforward. You did 537 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: this because people asked you to do it. Right. We've 538 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: been following you a little while now in terms of 539 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: you tracking elon must jet. But what's in it? For you. 540 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: I mean you're a young guy, respectfully. What's the Russian 541 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: oal here? Uh well, I just have a lot of 542 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: interest in aviation, and now there's some good attention to 543 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: everything I'm doing, so it's fun to attrack these planes 544 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: and codes and stuff and create the Twitter accounts. Do 545 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: you feel like you have some sort of moral obligation here? 546 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,479 Speaker 1: Does that play into this at all? Uh? Well, people 547 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: wanted it, so, I mean they can do whatever they 548 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: want with it. There's people that seem to think that 549 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: these people shouldn't be allowed in the United States or 550 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 1: other countries, so there's seems to be some interested in 551 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: it that way that they don't want these type of people. So, Jack, 552 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: previously you've had some engagement with Elon Musk about your 553 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: tracking of his jet. Do you mind to give us 554 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: an update on where you kind of left that. Um well, 555 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: he seemed to no longer be interested in anything, and 556 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: then he ended up blocking me after all the media 557 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: about the whole account and everything when our public and 558 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: he got further higher level of blocking. Would seem to 559 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: give up on that. Now he doesn't really seem to 560 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: care anymore. So to that point, it sounds like You're 561 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: going to continue to do this no matter what Ellen 562 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: has to say about it or not. Yeah, is there 563 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: somewhere you want to take this, Jack? I mean, what's next? 564 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: I'd like to like grow a website rather than just 565 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: beyond Twitter, so I have more options than just creating 566 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: Twitter posts. Jack, tell me a little bit about you. 567 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: What's your background? How did you learn to to program 568 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: in this way? And and program these Twitter bots too? 569 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: Because it's very specific, right. You get a lot of 570 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: data from the system in terms of where a plane is, 571 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: its location, but you've set this up in a really 572 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: specific way basically based on take off, landing and the 573 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: city of origin for that plane. Walk us through it. Yeah, 574 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: so there. I had. I had some aviation experience. My 575 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: dad works in aviation, and I knew a little bit 576 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: of coding, and I just had interested in all of it. 577 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: And during COVID I had a lot of free times, 578 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: so I just started messing around with it, especially with Ellen. 579 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: You know, I had an interest in him and I 580 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: knew he had a private jet. So I just had 581 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: the idea to create a Twitter brought because there's a 582 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: lot of different type of bots on Twitter, and I 583 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: created the plane tracking more, What do your parents think 584 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: about all this? Since you mentioned your dad, I think 585 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: it's pretty cool. And all their friends don't know about it, 586 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: and they think it's pretty cool too. All right, well, 587 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: we'll keep watching those trackers. Jack Sweeney, founder of Ground 588 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: Control UM, and are at ludlow ed. You know, obviously 589 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: this is a story that you've continued to follow for 590 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: a while. What do you make of Jack's determination here? Yeah, 591 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: there's two sides this. First of all, the reason I 592 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: love this show, Emily, and I love working with you, 593 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: is that this is about technology, right, and nineteen year 594 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: old that told himself these skills, and he's basically giving 595 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: a lens into the life of billionaires, rich people that 596 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: you wouldn't otherwise have. And then you have the moral 597 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: side of it, right. There's a lot of outrage in 598 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: Europe about several oligarchs, what they're doing, how they're speaking, 599 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: where they're conducting business, so it kind of gives you 600 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: a lens into that as well. Well. And certainly interesting 601 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: seeing where these planes are. I know you've been looking 602 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,760 Speaker 1: very closely at the maps. Are there any interesting trends 603 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: that you've pulled out? Yeah? I think it's interesting that 604 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: The debate right now is over no fly zone. Right 605 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: So we just had news aftermarket on Tuesday that United 606 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: will stop flying over Russian airspace. That's a commercial carrier, 607 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,320 Speaker 1: of course, but we're tracking the movements of several oligards billionaires, 608 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: one being Roman Abramovitch, for example, the owner of CHELSEAFC 609 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: in UK, because he might be involved in peace talk 610 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: somewhere along the way. All right, we'll keep watching. Thank you. 611 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: That does it for the sedition of Bloomberg Technology. We're 612 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: gonna be joined tomorrow by Brett Taylor, Salesforce coach EEO 613 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,839 Speaker 1: off the back of the company's earnings results, and Anthony Nodo, 614 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 1: CEO of Sophar. You won't want to miss those conversations. 615 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg