1 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not Me? 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide? Hosted by Tony Mantor, 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. 4 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories. 5 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears. 6 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 2: These real life journeys inspire, connect and remind you that 7 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower 8 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness 9 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: on wavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health. 10 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the world, one. 11 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 1: Story at a time. 12 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: Time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me? 13 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 2: Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide. Welcome to our special event, 14 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 2: crafting justice Empowering autism and mental health through legislation. Yesterday's 15 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 2: conversation was so engaging and packed with so many topics 16 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 2: that we just did not have time to cover them all. 17 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 2: He's graciously given us his time to come back today. 18 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: Joining us today is Patrick Kennedy, former US Congressman and 19 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: passionate advocate for mental health reform with a legacy of 20 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 2: groundbreaking legislation, including the Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act. 21 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: He has reshaped how we address mental health and addiction 22 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 2: in America. He joins US as he shares his personal journey, 23 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: the challenges of pushing for systemic change, and why mental 24 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: health advocacy is more critical now than ever. It's great 25 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: to have you here for the second straight day. I 26 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: really appreciate you taking the time. So let's jump into this. 27 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: Given your work with the Kennedy Form to advance integrated 28 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: care models, what specific policies can Congress prioritize, do better 29 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 2: coordinate mental health services with primary care, especially for underserved communities. 30 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 3: We need to have the strategy. Sounds obvious, but we 31 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 3: don't have a strategy. We don't have a blueprint. You're 32 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 3: gonna build a hash you gonna have the blueprint. Then 33 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 3: you gotta know what your materials are. We're just buying 34 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 3: materials haphazardly. How many housing units do we need? I 35 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 3: don't know how many housing units? Well what's your challenge? Well, 36 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 3: we don't know. And by the way, if you did 37 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 3: have enough housing us, how much money could that save 38 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 3: you on law enforcement and all the costs that are 39 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 3: encouraged from over hospitalization and overincarceration. 40 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 4: Well I don't know. 41 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 3: Well how many medical clinicians, Well I don't know. My 42 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 3: point is is that we don't have the strategy. We 43 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 3: haven't said, okay, we have this challenge. Because we have 44 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 3: this challenge, people are going to need these things. If 45 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 3: they don't get these things in a coordinated way, we 46 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 3: know the costs are going to be. These costs because 47 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,839 Speaker 3: if we're not creating that three leged stool, and we're 48 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 3: only buying two legs of the stool and it keeps 49 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: falling over, we're going to be wasting a lot of 50 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 3: money without getting the effect of the combined three legs 51 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 3: of the stool. And so if you don't have the strategy, 52 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: you're never going to be able to implement effectively a 53 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 3: way to address the challenge that people are having in 54 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 3: America where they're living. So many are living on the 55 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 3: streets and locked up in jail, are isolated and miserable 56 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 3: and suffering in their own homes and their families. 57 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: So what do we do. What's the answer. 58 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: Here's the problem, here's the cost to that problem. If 59 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 3: we took that cost and we appropriated what we're spending 60 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 3: already to better approach this problem. What could we get 61 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: We could dramatically address this problem if we knew we 62 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 3: were spending things in the way that would mitigate costs 63 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 3: by actually spending on things that would benefit the people 64 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 3: and in turn reduce the costs. Again, it all comes 65 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 3: back to aligning the financial incentives of the system. In 66 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 3: that way, you wouldn't have to micro manage all of 67 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 3: the proposals in Congress saying oh, you need. 68 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 4: To do this, and you need to do this, and 69 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 4: you need to do this. No. 70 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 3: No, the system will do all the things that it 71 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 3: needs to do if it's in its own self interest 72 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 3: to do it. And so we need to do is 73 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 3: create the financial models for it to be in its 74 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 3: own self interest to do the things that it needs 75 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 3: to do. And the way we do that is not 76 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 3: silo budgets, because that way, the housing person couldn't care 77 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 3: less for the fact that if they don't have enough 78 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 3: supportive housing, all those people who could benefit from supportive 79 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: out how and not end up in jail because they 80 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 3: had it and the right kind of clinical supports around it, 81 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 3: they would have eyes on that they would know, oh line, 82 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 3: part of the strategy what does HUD need to do 83 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 3: to comply with the presidential strategy to reduce the number 84 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: of Americans living in the streets, in jail and hospital ers. 85 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 4: And so forth. We know what to do, We know 86 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 4: what to do. 87 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 3: We just have not tasked each of the federal agencies 88 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: to do what they need to do to take their 89 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 3: mission and appropriate that mission to addressing the national mission. 90 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: Okay, you wrote a book. 91 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: It emphasizes reducing stigma around mental health and addiction. How 92 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,799 Speaker 2: can future legislation build on this to promote mental health 93 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 2: literacy and early intervention, especially in schools and workplaces. 94 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 3: So I think that clearly the current system restigmatizes people 95 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 3: because if you go to go down the hall, the 96 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 3: proverbial hall, to get your mental health as opposed to 97 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 3: having a part of your overall health care, you start 98 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 3: to think, well, what's wrong with getting healthcare for your brain? 99 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 3: Like why is that so underpaid, why is it so difficult, 100 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 3: and why is it part of the rest of my 101 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 3: medical chart? 102 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 4: And it's not. 103 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 3: So you can do all of the trying to change 104 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 3: social attitudes, but the best way to change social attitudes 105 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 3: is to change the norms so that people don't think twice. 106 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 3: You know, they're not just checked for their scoliosis. They're 107 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 3: checked for their hearing and their eyesight. When they go 108 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 3: to school, they're checked for learning challenges. They're checked for 109 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: kind of emotional and mental health challenges. You know, just 110 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 3: the facts, you know, not making any judgment on people. 111 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 3: We're all going to have a very continuum of various challenges. 112 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 3: Let's start with that supposition. And then we're not going 113 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 3: to be all self conscious. So I don't want you know, 114 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 3: I've got some differentiated diagnosis that makes me look like 115 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 3: I'm different. That's where we change things. You can't just 116 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 3: change attitudes but not change the structure of the system 117 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 3: that creates the attitudes that we're trying to change. 118 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: Right now, the latest thing is telehealth and digital mental 119 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: health platforms. What legislative measures do you believe are necessary 120 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: to ensure these tools are accessible and effectively integrated into 121 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: existing mental health care systems. 122 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: Well, we clearly need to address the youth mental health 123 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 3: problem that's going upstream. We can't just treat our way 124 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 3: out of the challenges we have on a public health level. 125 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 3: The number of people with severe mental illness, with severe 126 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 3: suicide ideation, with severe addiction, if we don't go upstream 127 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: and mitigate and minimize the enormity of the size of 128 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: the increase in all of these and so it all 129 00:07:54,880 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 3: is grows upstreams. Prevention and pre emption of illnesses is 130 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 3: the model for all the rest of the physical health system, 131 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 3: So why shouldn't it be true with brain illnesses? 132 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 4: And the fact of the matter is we could go upstream. 133 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: And in the area of telehealth, we know that you 134 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 3: go where the kids are, where the kids' schools, that's 135 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 3: where you reach everybody. Of course, there's home schooling you 136 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 3: have to deal with, but you could deal. 137 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 4: With that too. 138 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 3: The issue is how do we change the makeup of 139 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 3: what we understand to be education, because no one can 140 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 3: learn if you know kind of their migdalists are fire 141 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 3: and they're traumatized, and they come from families that have 142 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 3: these problems distracting. Then you need to start the very 143 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 3: earliest stages to educate on brain literacy, how people can 144 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 3: learn how to mediate their thoughts, their feelings and hence 145 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 3: their actions, and so that they can get the tools, 146 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 3: the coping mechanisms, tools, the problem solving tools, you know, 147 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 3: as I said, in a graduated way, with greater skill 148 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 3: sets as people move on, just like they would throughout 149 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 3: their numerous journey from addition to you know, multiplication to 150 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 3: geometry to you know, with English, with language, with history, 151 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 3: you know, you just it's. 152 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 4: The same with this. 153 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 3: We need to just graduate people up so that they're 154 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 3: very have a lot of agency, because what's the point 155 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 3: of education to create the opportunity for people to take 156 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 3: those skills and deploy them in a world which they 157 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 3: will be able to succeed and navigating. They can't do 158 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 3: that today if they're missing the set of skills. So 159 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 3: we first have to embed this in terms of our education. 160 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 3: And two, while people are struggling, we have to bring 161 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 3: them the therapy that works, and kind of behavioral therapy 162 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 3: works if it's targeted for the types of diagnoses that 163 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 3: each kind of behavioral therapy has been shown to be 164 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 3: effective on. So that needs to be delivered and telehealth 165 00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 3: can do that. 166 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: What have been the issue in getting this going stronger? 167 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 3: Problem is obviously it's all about word to pay for it. Again, 168 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 3: we need to recognize that an ounce of prevention is 169 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 3: worth a pound of cure. If we took all the 170 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 3: dollars that we're going to spend in the future because 171 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,839 Speaker 3: we haven't addressed kids challenges now where it can be 172 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 3: a lot more effective through preemption and prevention, we're going to. 173 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 4: End up spending down the line. 174 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 3: We got to make again make sense of that mathematical 175 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 3: paradigm so as it would justify that intervention earlier on. 176 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 3: And frankly, we could in the meantime fight to make 177 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 3: sure that all payers reimburse for this in schools. But 178 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 3: right now, schools in most states are not designated as 179 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 3: side of service for the healthcare delivery system. 180 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 4: But the schools are where the kids are. 181 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 3: You don't want to have to wait for their parents 182 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 3: after they pick them up to drive them across town 183 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 3: to some clinic. Why not change what we define as 184 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 3: the school nurse's office. Have therapists, by the way, who 185 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 3: are not having to be just from that state because 186 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 3: that's where the clinical licensure is. We ought to have 187 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 3: much broader licensure so that if it's telehealth, whether the 188 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 3: therapist who's perfect for that patient's particular diagnosis and delivers 189 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 3: the best care cog of behavioral therapy before that, whether 190 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 3: they're from Massachusetts or California, who cares? We need to 191 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 3: know at nine am at ten thirty am on Tuesdays 192 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 3: can they deliver this in this school and there's a need. 193 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 4: For a child to get that care? 194 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 3: You know, why should we forego that based on some 195 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 3: bureaucratic state licensure barrier when in fact, all the clinicians 196 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 3: out there have more than enough work to have to 197 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 3: be battling over whether someone from out of state gets 198 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 3: to take their job. 199 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 4: Guess what, we're barely scratching the service of the need 200 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 4: out there. 201 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 3: So if we're fighting over who gets to take care 202 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 3: of a population that is one hundred times bigger than 203 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 3: we could ever take. 204 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: Care of, that just makes so much sense. What do 205 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: we do? 206 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 3: The insanity of the current system is breath taking. We 207 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 3: need to change a lot of things to facilitate the 208 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 3: delivery in an effective and universal way in telehealth to 209 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 3: the country. Breaking down these very obtuse, antiquated licensure barriers 210 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 3: was one thing in the payment that goes with them, 211 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 3: in terms of making sure that therapists can get reimbursed 212 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: for the therapy that they're delivering in a way that 213 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 3: attracts the number of therapists we need and that they 214 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 3: deliver that therapy and the evidence form a manner that 215 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 3: is matched with the diagnosis that a child or anyone 216 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 3: else has, and that that venue doesn't necessarily need to 217 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: be in the. 218 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 4: Current clinical model. 219 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 3: It could probably be, as they said, in the schools 220 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 3: where the kids are, but we have to change the 221 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 3: kind of regulatory, financial reimbursement infrastructure to facilitate that to happen. 222 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 3: That's why the Alignment for Progress through the Kennedy Forum 223 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 3: has mapped out, you know, a very comprehensive but lengthy 224 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 3: strategy to solve this global problem. You've got to tackle 225 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 3: it from another different perspectives, as they say, you know, 226 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 3: how do you eat an elephant, and it's one bite 227 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 3: at a time. You've got to tackle different pieces of 228 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 3: this and you can do it all concurrently. But everyone 229 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 3: needs to know their role and they all need to 230 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 3: know that there's a global goal and vision that goes 231 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 3: back to our ninety ninety ninety by twenty thirty three. 232 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 2: Okay, So in closing, we've touched on several subjects here 233 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: and it's just a tip of the iceberg. What do 234 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: you think that the listeners need to hear that is 235 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 2: very important that we might not have touched upon today. 236 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 3: Well, I think that again, the basic thing is we're 237 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 3: faced with lack of human connection. It's a phenomenon that 238 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 3: stretches the whole age span. We are isolated, you know, 239 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 3: by technology. Then of course we're isolated by all hosts 240 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 3: of other kind of embedded kind of bureaucratic approaches in 241 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 3: our communities. And of course we've gradually retracted from the 242 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 3: institutions that used to connect us to one another in 243 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 3: the past, and so now makes it so easy to 244 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 3: just shop online to you know, do this in this 245 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 3: small cohort of people, to you know, not engaged in 246 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 3: a community the way society is to be built around, 247 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 3: you know, organized religion or you know these social clubs, 248 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 3: these fraternal groups, these community organizations and workplace where people 249 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 3: are now remote as well. In other words, we have 250 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 3: just basically undermined one of the principal kind of foundation 251 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 3: blocks for our all collective mental health, which is the 252 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 3: social connection. So we have to come up with a 253 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 3: way to build that social connection in an environment which 254 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 3: no longer supports social connections. 255 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 4: So what does that agenda look like we need to 256 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 4: do that. 257 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 3: We need to also understand that AI, Well, it's going 258 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 3: to be a huge value, as I said, to delivering 259 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 3: personalized medicine to each person, especially in the field of 260 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 3: idd SMI s U D is that we can get 261 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:28,479 Speaker 3: a lot more specific to dress your particular set of challenges, 262 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 3: which is there's a heterogen at eight to all of 263 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 3: these illnesses. There's overlapping characteristics, and so you can't just 264 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 3: pigeon old people into these bigger buckets when we're all 265 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 3: in a spectrum. 266 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: Yes, I totally agree. 267 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 4: You need personalized approaches. 268 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 3: It's not a one size fits all, and AI will 269 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 3: give us that personalized approach. 270 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 4: But here are the things to be cautious about. 271 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 3: And that is in the wrong way, AI could really 272 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 3: divert us from doing things that are in our own 273 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 3: personal and collective self interest. Obviously, we're influenced by all 274 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 3: of the environment, and of course if we're spending all 275 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 3: of our time on technology and all these other devices 276 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 3: embedded with AI, it's not going to be long before 277 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 3: the continued kind of isolation and potential fragmentation is going 278 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 3: to be made even worse than it is today and 279 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 3: we'll be prey to kind of this technological ecosystem which 280 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 3: is going to be calling the shots on how we 281 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 3: think and how we act and what we do, and 282 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 3: if we have seed our autonomy to that, you know, 283 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 3: our agency, because we think we're in charge, but we're not. 284 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 3: We're really being influenced by these outside factors that are 285 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 3: driven by some other interests. That is principally only worried 286 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 3: about us consuming more bad food, consuming more addictive technology, 287 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 3: consuming and buying more of things that are making us 288 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 3: more empty inside. There's just an existential I think challenge 289 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 3: writ large for the world that we're going into right 290 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 3: now with AI, where frankly, we're also going to displace 291 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 3: a big portion of the economy which will no longer 292 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 3: be needed in a world where AI can supplant a 293 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 3: lot of current jobs out there from even the most 294 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 3: educated of our workforce. So that's going to create an 295 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 3: economic destabilization which I think is clearly going to contribute 296 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 3: to a mental health destabilization. So there's a lot that 297 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 3: we have to look forward to, a lot that we 298 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 3: have to be concerned about, cautious about. 299 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 4: What we need to do is be in. 300 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 3: It to try to manage this rather than to sit 301 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 3: back and think it's going to be managed for us. 302 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 3: This requires our involvement and what I mean by that 303 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 3: is not just an the political system, but just in 304 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 3: our lives and be part of the community, and we 305 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 3: all impact in our own spheres of influence, you know, 306 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 3: the way the world shakes out, and we all have 307 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 3: to take responsibility for doing our part. 308 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 4: We don't have to worry that we've got to solve 309 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 4: all the world's poms. 310 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 3: Just try to do our part and be content knowing 311 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 3: that that's all we can do. 312 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 4: And if all of us do. 313 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 3: What we can do, then the world will be so 314 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 3: much better than if we just check out, which I 315 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 3: think is a worry that I have because it's so 316 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 3: overwhelming in terms of the world's challenges that the default 317 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 3: is to hide and that's going to only kind of 318 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 3: exacerbate the current isolation that we all live with. 319 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 2: You know, you brought up a great point there, and 320 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 2: I'm curious to know what your thoughts might be on this. 321 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: You brought up the employment situation with many throughout the 322 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 2: country working remotely while only a few are working together. 323 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 2: How do you think this will affect them mentally? The 324 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 2: workplace is a very important part of our mental well 325 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 2: being in this country. 326 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 3: Well, you know, the bottom line is if AI can 327 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 3: totally replace legal advice, if AI can totally replace medical 328 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 3: advice from a doctor, if an AI can make a 329 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 3: better diagnosis than someone who's been through unpteen years of 330 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 3: medical school and so forth. 331 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 4: You know, if. 332 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 3: AI can you know, basically supplan any financial analysts out 333 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 3: there because it can make better decisions on how to 334 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 3: manage your investments. 335 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 4: I mean, there's no end to it. 336 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 3: Like what I'm saying is even people who are software 337 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 3: engineers are going to be put out of business by 338 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 3: AI that they're creating. 339 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 4: So think of that a. 340 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 3: World where literally an enormous section of our current employment 341 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 3: base is going to be rendered obsolete because of AI. 342 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 3: And think about the mental health toll that that will 343 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 3: have on a country, on any human being who has 344 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 3: now lost their sense of purpose, which for many is 345 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 3: tied to their ability to provide for themselves and their 346 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 3: family and have a contributing role to make in society. 347 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 4: So we're going to have to evolve what are the 348 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 4: jobs of. 349 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 3: The future, what do we expect, and then we have 350 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 3: to train for those jobs so people don't get displaced, 351 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 3: And then we have you know, a third of our 352 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 3: population unemployed and not have you know, something that builds 353 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 3: productivity and helps solve the challenges that now AI can solve. 354 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 3: So that's a lot of change, and change involves stress 355 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 3: and the level of change. 356 00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 4: Hence the level of stress. 357 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 3: Is going to be enormous, and that's going to put 358 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 3: enormous tests on everybody's ability to manage and cope with 359 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 3: that change and stress. So it's not too much to 360 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 3: say that a big mental health challenge is going to 361 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 3: be directly related to the economic challenges that are going 362 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 3: to come as a result of the technological changes that 363 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 3: are going to be wrought as a result of AI. 364 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: Yes, I see AI taking over and becoming very big. 365 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 2: Just in what I do here in the music field 366 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 2: in Nashville. It's kind of a sad situation, even though 367 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 2: there are good parts to it. But on the flip side, 368 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 2: in the music field and I'm sure other things as well, 369 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 2: it takes a tremendous amount of creativity out of the 370 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: building process of a song. 371 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 3: Whatever we do, we need to focus on our ability 372 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 3: to manage in an ever more stress full and toxic world, 373 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 3: which is politically but you know, disparities and wealth and income. 374 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 4: There's just going to be so many structural. 375 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 3: Challenges, and we're going to need to build resilience in 376 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 3: our people to manage, survive, and thrive. And we're not 377 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 3: going to have the wherewithal to use our brains to 378 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 3: think creatively and imagine possibilities for new ways of coexisting 379 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 3: and living and surviving if we're locked in our a 380 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 3: makedala as opposed to being able to operate in our 381 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 3: prefrontal cortex. 382 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 4: So it, at the end of the. 383 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 3: Day, a lot of our national security challenges, technological challenges, 384 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 3: creative challenges all rest on our ability to mediate those 385 00:22:53,880 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 3: challenges by having healthy brains that can cope and manage stress. So, 386 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,959 Speaker 3: at the end of the day, mental health is going 387 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 3: to be a key aspect in any solution for going forward. 388 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I truly believe that we are on the same 389 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 2: page on that subject. Well, this has been great, incredible conversation, 390 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 2: insightful information. It's been a true pleasure. Thanks so much 391 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 2: for joining us for these two fantastic episodes. Your time 392 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 2: and perspective have truly made this a very special episode. 393 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 3: Listen, Tony, thank you for giving me the opportunity and 394 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 3: now as a former politician, I need some platform. You're 395 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 3: giving me the platform Thank you so much, Tony, It's. 396 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: Been my pleasure. 397 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 2: Thanks again, thanks for taking time out of your busy 398 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 2: schedule to listen to our show today. We hope you 399 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 2: enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. 400 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 2: If you know someone who has a story to share, 401 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: tell them to contact us at why notmt World. 402 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: One last thing, spread the word about why 403 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 2: Not me, our conversations, our inspiring guests that show you 404 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 2: are not alone in this world.