1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch Just Live weekdays at 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then Proud Otto with the 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: With me in Washington is Mike Dorning, Bloomberg Politics reporter 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: and editor. And great to see you, Mike, to be 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 2: here to kind of assemble these two models. We're getting 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: this slow drip from both campaigns to flesh out their 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: economic policy proposals. Did we learn much new today other 11 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 2: than that corporate tax. 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 3: Rate, Well, the main thing was the Wall Street Journal 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 3: headline suggesting that Yes would for a lower tax rate. 14 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 3: But that just both what Kamala Harris did yesterday and 15 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 3: what he may do today reinforce, Unlike most of what 16 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 3: was saying today, an actual difference between the two candidates 17 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 3: when it comes to corporate taxes. Kamala Harris wants to 18 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 3: raise them, not as much as Biden wants to raise them, 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 3: but she wants to raise them back closer to where 20 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 3: they were before Trump put in his corporate tax cuts. 21 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: Trump wants them even lower than he previously lowered them. 22 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 3: He wants corporate tax rates in general to be a 23 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 3: little bit lower even than after the Trump corporate tax cut, 24 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 3: and he wants an even lower corporate tax rate for 25 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 3: companies that manufacture goods in the US. So there you 26 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 3: see a clear distinction in the economic outlook between the two. 27 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 2: Finally finding some sunlight here with specifics, that's what we're 28 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: interested in. On Bloomberg, Kamala Harris yesterday talking about capital 29 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 2: gains taxes twenty eight percent when people earning a million 30 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 2: dollars or more, compared to about forty percent that Joe 31 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 2: Biden was calling for. Does that help to to solve 32 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: some of the worry that Wall Street has about a 33 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: potential Kamala Harris administration. 34 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 4: This one hits close to home. 35 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 3: I think that it may, you know, to some degree, 36 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 3: make her Wall Street supporters and her Tech World supporters 37 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 3: more comfortable with her from a business standpoint. Most of 38 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 3: what she's been leaning into though or trying to help 39 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 3: small businesses, which fits in better with the general Democratic 40 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 3: critique of the problems with our economy. The Democrats want 41 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 3: more competition in the economy, so she's focusing more on 42 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 3: lifting up small businesses, which obviously, you know, create more 43 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 3: competition in the economy. But she is trying to scale 44 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 3: back some of the aspirations that Biden has to increase 45 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 3: capital gains taxes and. 46 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 4: Realized gains is a different matter. 47 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 2: Right, We haven't heard from her on that till her 48 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 2: day said she is pursuing that, but we don't know that. 49 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, but a lot of these changes with Harris, it 50 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 3: wasn't like she was actually going to ever be able 51 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 3: to do what Biden has wanted to do and couldn't 52 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 3: even do with like Democrats having a trifecta. 53 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 4: Realistic approach, if not a more conservative. 54 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 3: Basically, she's moderating her stance to no longer have something 55 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 3: that isn't going to happen anyway. So it's it's closer 56 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 3: to what you might actually be able to get. I 57 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 3: kind of doubt that she would even be able to 58 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: get what she wants to get. 59 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, you bring up where you refer to something important. 60 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: We're talking about all this stuff like whoever gets elected 61 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: is going to happen in Congress. 62 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 4: To make tax law. 63 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, these approaches might be impossible for both Donald Trump 64 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: and Kamala Harris if they're elected. 65 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 4: Depending on the bounce of power on Capitol. 66 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 3: Hill, I would say that Trump has a better chance 67 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: than Kamala Harris does of getting more of his program. 68 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 3: But the reason to be if he has a Democratic Senate. 69 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 3: That's not likely. But I don't see a Democratic Senate 70 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 3: as very likely if Trump wins. It's not even necessarily 71 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 3: that likely even if Harris wins. But Trump, if he wins, 72 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 3: has a better chance of a kind of a trifecta 73 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 3: number one and number two. The Republican lawmakers are mostly 74 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 3: afraid of crossing him, so he has more ability to 75 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 3: get the Republican members of Congress in line to do 76 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 3: what he wants than Kamala Harris has ability to get 77 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 3: sort of the most conservative or least liberal, depending on 78 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 3: how you look at it, members of her party. 79 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: In lawe really interesting as we spend time with Mike 80 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: Dorning with eyes on Donald Trump. If you're with us 81 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 2: on YouTube, you can see he's speaking at the Economic 82 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 2: Club of New York. This will resolve to a Q 83 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: and a session that we want to bring you live 84 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 2: here on balance power. Can we bring Rick into this conversation. 85 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: I'd love to if we can. Rick Davis of course, 86 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributor, a longtime Republican strategist and partner at 87 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: Stone Court Capital. Great to have Rick on board as 88 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 2: always as we wait for the Q and A. 89 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 4: Rick, It's good to see you. I wonder your thoughts. 90 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: On the battle of the taxes here. That's what this 91 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 2: really has turned into this week. 92 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 4: Who's winning it? 93 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, it's really pretty interesting to me that 94 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 5: both sides are trying to claim below ground on taxes. 95 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 5: You know, who can out tax cut the other, and 96 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 5: yet at the same time they're all offering these massive 97 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 5: government spending programs within their own platforms, and how they 98 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 5: don't pay for all this stuff. I mean, nobody I 99 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 5: was listening into the Trump speech, I didn't hear anything 100 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 5: about the deficits. And I've been waiting to hear from 101 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 5: Kamala Harris about government spending because they both basically are 102 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 5: taken the approach that they can write checks that bust 103 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 5: the budget and don't seem to care about that. They 104 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 5: don't seem to care about the integrity of the social 105 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 5: Security system, Medicare, Medicaid, the federal deficit. I mean, like 106 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 5: these are not insignificant issues, and by the way not 107 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 5: insignificant issues to American voters, and yet they are not 108 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 5: even in the discussion. In the first week of September, 109 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 5: in the middle of a presidential campaign. 110 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 2: Less than a week out from the big debate Rick, 111 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: he just said it out loud, companies must make products 112 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: in America to get the tax rate of yes, fifteen percent. 113 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 4: So there it is. 114 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 2: Donald Trump also making news on this idea that Elon 115 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: Musk floated in his interview, if we're calling it that. 116 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 2: On X, Donald Trump says he will create a government 117 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 2: Efficiency task Force. Pretty interesting idea here, Mike, to bring 118 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 2: someone like Elon I don't know if he would be involved, 119 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: to essentially audit the spending of tax dollars. Isn't that 120 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 2: kind of what Congress already does well? 121 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 3: In theory, that's what Congress is supposed to be doing. 122 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 3: But there's been you know, it reminds me of al 123 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 3: Gore reinventing government. It's periodically you can have like X, 124 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 3: you know, bring people in or someone inside government to 125 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 3: do a review of things that might lead to changes. 126 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 3: It might not lead to changes, but it's it's said. 127 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: It's not an it's not an unreasonable idea. It's just 128 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: a question of what would that actually accomplish. Sometimes you 129 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 3: can reorient the government. Sometimes you can't. In theory though 130 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 3: there we elect people to do that, the President and Congress. 131 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 3: And this is kind of like going to McKenzie or something. 132 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 4: If you're in a corporation, what do you think of this? 133 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: Rick? 134 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: Are we just throwing everything at the wall at this 135 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 2: point or are these real proposals? 136 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 5: You know, Look, I agree, I mean Mike's pointed. We've 137 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 5: had commissions that try to solve the deficit problem, tried 138 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 5: to cut the growth of government, tried to fix social 139 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 5: security and Medicare, and usually their reports, you know, collect 140 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 5: dust on the desk of Congress and the administration. So 141 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 5: it's not a bad concept to want to reduce the 142 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 5: size and scope of government. There's no question that it's 143 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 5: bloated over time. And and you know, and Elon Musk 144 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 5: might as well be the co chairman of this campaign 145 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 5: at this stage. I mean, I remember starting this campaign 146 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 5: wondering what will. 147 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 6: He do now he's all in the. 148 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 5: Chips are in the middle of the table, and that 149 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 5: could be a good thing or a bad thing. I mean, like, 150 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 5: I don't think it's going to help reach out to 151 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 5: union voters if you're Donald Trump, regardless of whether they're 152 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,599 Speaker 5: you know, sort of the leaders of the unions or 153 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 5: the rank and file. Because we know the first recommendation, 154 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 5: it's predictable from an Elon Musk commission, would be get 155 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 5: rid of unions in the federal government. A lot of 156 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 5: my friends would applaud that. But how you implement that. 157 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 5: These are statutory programs. You had to take them to 158 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 5: Congress if he wants to cut them. So, you know, 159 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 5: it's a really good thing to talk about, because I 160 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 5: don't think Republican, Democrat or independent or vegetarian don't agree, 161 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 5: don't disagree that the government's too big and uneffective. 162 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 6: So I think they're playing into the right concept. 163 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 5: I'm just not sure that Elon Musk is the leader 164 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 5: of the band, is going. 165 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 6: To really play the music people want to hear. 166 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 2: Okay, well, you know we heard from the group Taxpayers 167 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 2: for Common Sense on this, Rick and Mike. They actually 168 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: delivered an open letter, this being twenty twenty four, in 169 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: podcast form, an open letter to Elon Musk. They've been 170 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 2: at this for thirty years. Of course, this is on 171 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: the Budget Watchdog All Federal podcast. It's time to light 172 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 2: the fires and kick the tires on a fiscal commission 173 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 2: that will protect American taxpayers, they say. But keeping Elon Musk, 174 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, and Congress on the correct trajectory toward fiscal 175 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 2: success is truly rocket science, Mike, Are they onto something here? 176 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 3: I mean, it's hard to do. For instance, one of 177 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 3: the you know, you can look for waste here and 178 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 3: there in government, and there's probably plenty of it. But 179 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 3: the big questions that really have to do with our 180 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 3: fiscal trajectory are things like social security, Medicare, and tax rates, 181 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 3: and people know what the trade offs are there. And 182 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 3: the consensus politically is don't do anything that can help 183 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 3: the fiscal trajectory because it's either painful to raise taxes 184 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 3: or it's painful to cut Social Security or Medicare benefits, 185 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 3: and so let's just not do either, and you know, 186 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 3: see what happens in the future. That's basically what the 187 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 3: American consensus is. 188 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 2: It's interesting he's actually accusing today in the speech Kamala 189 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 2: Harris of busting social Security and Medicare by allowing illegal 190 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 2: immigrants to come and exploit the benefits. But neither campaign 191 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 2: is going to touch under these entitlements. 192 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 3: Right, Neither campaign is going to touch the entitlements back 193 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 3: in the lock box, and the Congress isn't going to 194 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 3: want to do that if neither Trump nor sure Democrat 195 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 3: is in favor of that. I would also say that, 196 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 3: you know, on the immigrants question, arguably, if you have 197 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 3: younger immigrants coming in and they are mostly younger immigrants, 198 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: that actually does help the imbalance between retiring people and 199 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 3: working people. 200 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 4: Rick talk to us about style here. 201 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: We've spent a bit of time on substance, the extent 202 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 2: that we understand proposals being thrown out there from both campaigns. 203 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 2: Donald Trump speaking of the Economic Club of New York. 204 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 2: This is not a rally in Middle America where they 205 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: chant lock her up. But he is still referring to 206 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: Comrade Kamala, calling her a communist and a Marxist, running 207 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: through a number of accusations that we tried to fact 208 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 2: check on the way out of the speech here. Remember 209 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: when he spoke to the business roundtable. Some of the 210 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: comments we heard from CEOs is is this the right 211 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: room for this approach? How's he doing with tone and 212 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: tenor if this or Joe Biden, that's what everybody'd be asking. 213 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, he isn't speaking to the room, He's speaking to 214 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 5: the media. And the reality is he could care less 215 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 5: what those guys in the room think. They're not really 216 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 5: his types. He's his base and where he's going to 217 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 5: get boats is in Middle America, rural suburban areas, and 218 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 5: it's not represented in New York's economic club. So he's 219 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 5: taken the opportunity not to pander to the crowd, and 220 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 5: this is what he does. Well, you know, he's not situationally, 221 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 5: he talks over everybody's head. I'm sure there are a 222 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 5: lot of people who are scratching their head right now 223 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 5: in the room who are very sophisticated, don't need to 224 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 5: be educated on some of these issues, and feel like 225 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 5: they're being pandered to. But that's what you have to expect. 226 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 5: I mean, you couldn't fact check this speech. 227 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 6: A little bit. 228 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 5: The half of it that I heard probably had twenty 229 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 5: lies in it, and like, so who's going. 230 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 6: To do that? 231 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 5: And so like you just have to take him for 232 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 5: what he is and apply whatever necessary filters you have. 233 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 5: But yeah, there's gonna be a lot of folks in 234 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 5: that crowd scratching her head and going for an early 235 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 5: martini this afternoon after witnessing this. But I must admit 236 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 5: it is a little bit of a deja voo, and 237 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 5: that you know, in two thousand and eight, when we 238 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 5: run the McCain campaign, we did a very similar thing 239 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 5: around the same time, and a week later we had 240 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 5: that you know, global financial crisis. And this was the 241 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 5: week that John McCain basically said, after hearing from these 242 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 5: guys you. 243 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 6: Know, assembled in that room of very similar cast of. 244 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 5: Characters, actually that you know, we're headed to a disaster, 245 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 5: and he suspended his campaign came back to Washington because 246 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 5: he thought fixing the economic problems of our country were 247 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 5: more important than running for president. 248 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 6: Well we've gone a long way since then. 249 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 4: How true? 250 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: And I can only imagine Rick Davis's first thought when 251 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 2: Senator McCaine told him that's. 252 00:13:58,160 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 4: What the plan was. Hey, let's add it. 253 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,719 Speaker 2: The voice of a Democrat to our great conversation here 254 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 2: with Rick Davis and Mike Dorning, Laura Fink is with this, 255 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 2: Democratic strategist, founder CEO of Rebel Communications. Laura, great to 256 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 2: have you with us here on Bloomberg. We've been talking 257 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 2: about some of the policy proposals that we've heard here 258 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 2: as this really seems to center around a battle of 259 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 2: the taxes. There's going to be a rewriting of the 260 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: tax code one way or the other next year. Is 261 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 2: Kamala Harris bringing enough here talking about, for instance, a 262 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 2: lower than expected capital gains tax rate for the wealthiest 263 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 2: Americans to really drive this debate that Donald Trump has 264 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: had his hands around pretty well so far. 265 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 7: Well, I think you see her gaining in terms of 266 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 7: polling on the economic issues the more people get to 267 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 7: know her. And I think this is just one more 268 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 7: example of that. When you're talking about the corporate tax 269 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 7: rate and she introduces something akin to what was in 270 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 7: place and what was backed by Ronald Reagan. That's a 271 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 7: pretty reasonable stance with respect to evening out the tax 272 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 7: code and ensuring that investors are paying their fair share. 273 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 7: That Warren Buffett secretary isn't paying more than the rate 274 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 7: of the folks making a million plus in terms of 275 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 7: their investments, and don't I think it's reasonable in the 276 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 7: sense that I don't think it's going to decrease investment. 277 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 7: You're not going to have the venture capitalists from Silicon 278 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 7: Valley taking their toys and going home. They're going to 279 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,239 Speaker 7: be on the hunt for the next the next unicorns. 280 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 7: So this is something that's reasonable. It's something that you're 281 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 7: seeing praised about. Overall, her economic policy being praised by 282 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 7: the likes of Goldman Sacks and Moody's and the pen 283 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 7: Wharton Economic analysis. That those are not liberal organizations. So 284 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 7: I think you see a real balanced approach from the 285 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 7: Harris campaign. 286 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 2: I hear you Golden Sacks not liberal. I'm not sure 287 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 2: what you mean. This is important. Let's talk about that. 288 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 2: Goldman Sachs note, Rick, your thoughts on this. The tax 289 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 2: policies had it in the election could have a big impact, 290 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 2: will one way or the other on earnings, corporate earnings. 291 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 2: We think about the trajectory the future of the S 292 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 2: and P five hundred. This is right down the middle. 293 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 2: Here is the estimate profits could shift in the ballpark 294 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 2: range of five to ten percent, depending on who's elected in. 295 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 4: Which policies are enacted. Here. 296 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 2: Donald Trump's promise to cut the federal tax rate here 297 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: to fifteen percent from its twenty one would raise S 298 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: and P five hundred earnings by four percent. Kamala Harris's 299 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 2: proposal to lift the rate to twenty eight percent would 300 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 2: cut earnings by about five percent. Does anything else matter 301 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 2: to the people in that room? 302 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 4: Rick, You know, I think. 303 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 5: That there are a few things that matter to people 304 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 5: in that room, but this is obviously something that's going 305 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 5: to have a material impact on how. 306 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 6: They look at these candidacies. 307 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 5: If you believe that it's just about earnings and that's 308 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 5: how you're going to make your political decisions, then you're 309 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 5: going to have that analysis to go. 310 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 6: And by the way, I think it's a really healthy thing. 311 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 5: In the political environment to have organizations like this doing 312 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 5: scoring like this, because I must admit, in the past 313 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 5: we haven't really had clarity around these policies and how 314 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 5: they would impact corporate America or tax payers or consumers, 315 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 5: and so I think, you know, this amount of information 316 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 5: is very helpful, but I would be surprised, you know, 317 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,239 Speaker 5: just using this is a big focus group, you know 318 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 5: here in New York during this economic speech, how many 319 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 5: people in the room would actually be motivated to vote 320 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 5: on the issue of corporate earnings alone, because remember, there 321 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 5: are a lot of things that go into that corporate 322 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 5: earning package, not just taxes, and you know, whether it's 323 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 5: political instability around the world, you know, or unemployment or inflation. 324 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 5: I mean, all those things are going to be a 325 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 5: basket of decisions that they're going to have to follow. 326 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, boy, interesting, I suspect a lot of them have 327 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 2: terminal subscriptions. 328 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens 329 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play 330 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: and then Roud Oro with the Bloom's Our Business Act. 331 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 332 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven. 333 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 4: Thirty, New York. 334 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 8: Of course, where Donald Trump is spending his day today 335 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,239 Speaker 8: is he is still speaking before the Economic Club of 336 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 8: New York, outlining some new economic policies which Joe and 337 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 8: I have mentioned, but also threatening what could happen to 338 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 8: the economy under a potential Harris administration, including what he 339 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 8: just described as facing fiscal armageddon. 340 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. 341 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 8: A lot of this is coming down, of course, to 342 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 8: the fiscal policies these two campaigns have put out there. 343 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 8: But we've spoken with a lot of economists, budget watchers 344 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 8: on this program and others here on Bloomberg. Joe and 345 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 8: we do know that if it's all about fiscal responsibility, 346 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 8: ten and a half trillion dollars worth of tax cuts 347 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 8: over the next ten years is going to be very 348 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 8: hard to pay for, that's. 349 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 2: For sure, and it's not always enough to just say 350 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 2: that you're going to grow out of it now. It's 351 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 2: interesting when you think about the notes that we got 352 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: from Golden Sachs over the past twenty four to forty 353 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,719 Speaker 2: eight hours. Here the different ways you can slice this. 354 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 2: There was one economic forecast from Goldman predicting that a 355 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 2: Trump presidency would damage gross domestic product due to the 356 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 2: tariff and immigration plans to an extent that would not 357 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 2: happen in the Harris campaign. Yet we also have competing research, 358 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 2: if we can call it that, with an eye on 359 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 2: the markets. Here at S and P five hundred earnings. 360 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 2: Donald Trump's promise to cut the federal corporate tax rate, 361 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 2: as he just said, to fifteen percent from twenty one 362 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 2: would raise earnings by about four percent. Kamala Harris's would 363 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 2: cut it by about five. Kaylee, I think we need 364 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 2: a ruling from the ref. He's in New York as well. 365 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 2: Michael McKee, Bloomberg Economics and Policy correspondent, Michael, which one 366 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 2: is Wall Street paying attention to? 367 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,479 Speaker 9: That's a good question. It's hard to ignore Donald Trump, 368 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 9: but his plans are sort of incoherent, and economists would 369 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 9: basically tell you they're not going to work. So you 370 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 9: would say, Kamala Harris, but Kamala Harris has only released 371 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,239 Speaker 9: some plans. And the problem is at this point that 372 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 9: nobody knows what will actually pass. There are a lot 373 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 9: of things being thrown around that make for good sound 374 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 9: bites and political points, but that's not what's going to happen. 375 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 9: And a prime example of that is something they both 376 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 9: agree on, which is no tax on tips. It's a 377 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,719 Speaker 9: bad economic idea. It would lead to distortions in the 378 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 9: way the economy is taxed, and it's an unfair idea 379 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 9: because minimum wage workers in the back of the kitchen 380 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 9: don't get any tax breaks. So that's not going to happen. 381 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 9: But so how do you evaluate plans that are not 382 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 9: going to have fifteen percent is not going to happen 383 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 9: as a corporate tax rate. 384 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 4: The way it means. 385 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 9: Committee and members of Congress who already made that clear. 386 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 9: So how do you evaluate these plans other than you know, 387 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 9: do they make any sense at all? Could they be considered. 388 00:20:58,760 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 4: Well? 389 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 8: And Mike yes, no, one of us can predict the future, 390 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 8: including you, me, Kamala Harris, and Donald Trump, but can't 391 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 8: we use history in the past as a guide here, 392 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 8: because we did see enacted into law tax cuts during 393 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 8: his first administration with the twenty seventeen package that he 394 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 8: would now like to make permanent. So when he makes 395 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 8: the argument that tax cuts like the ones he would 396 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 8: like to pursue again in a second term will be 397 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 8: paid for because of the growth they generate, is that 398 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 8: what we saw the first time around. 399 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 9: That is not what we saw and historically that is 400 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 9: not what we've ever seen. Tax cuts do not pay 401 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 9: for themselves. That's a well established economic fact. Growth is 402 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 9: never big enough high enough to pay for itself from 403 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 9: additional tax cuts. In the first year after Trump's tax 404 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 9: cuts took effect, we actually saw tax re seats in 405 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 9: the country go down some so it's income tax receipts, 406 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 9: and we didn't see any real increase in investments. Some 407 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 9: stuff was brought forward, but the real benefit went to 408 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 9: consumers who had a little bit more money to spend, 409 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 9: and that juiced growth a little bit. Overall, tax cuts 410 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 9: don't have the impact that all politicians like to give 411 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 9: that they are a drag on the economy. 412 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 2: Well, what are the research notes saying this morning? What 413 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 2: are the analysts thinking about this approach to capital gains 414 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 2: that we heard from Kamala Harris yesterday. Higher numbers than 415 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 2: they want to see, but not as high as Joe Biden. 416 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 2: It seems to be this attempt to moderate a slightly 417 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 2: liberal approach here, Mike, how's it washing over the street? 418 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 9: Well, I think people like the idea that she came 419 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 9: down from the Biden position, but of course it would 420 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 9: be us from where we are now. It becomes a 421 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 9: little bit of a religious discussion in the sense of 422 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 9: what's fair. Is it fair that wealthy people who make 423 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 9: their money off of investments can pay a lower tax 424 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 9: rate than the guy who has to go to work 425 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 9: and lay bricks for a living. And so that's the 426 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 9: real dilemma for Congress to decide, is do we want 427 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 9: to tax these people on a sort of equal basis. 428 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 9: If so, you're going to have to raise the capital 429 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 9: gains tax. But where you raise it is a combination 430 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 9: of a lot of things, including how much money do 431 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 9: you have to raise because you've cut taxes elsewhere. So 432 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 9: where she is hard, it's better according to the people 433 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 9: on Wall Street who would like to see a little 434 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 9: bit less taxation, but it doesn't really tell you where 435 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 9: you're going to end up. And the other thing that 436 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 9: she did propose yesterday, though, gets a lot of credit, 437 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 9: and that is the Small Business Tax Credit for businesses. 438 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 9: It's not reduction in taxes, it's a credit, so you 439 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 9: actually can get money back if you start a small 440 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 9: business and meet the conditions. And that is seen as 441 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 9: a very good way to maybe boost growth at the 442 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 9: low end of the economy. 443 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 8: Well, Mike, in addition to tax policy, before we let 444 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 8: you go, we heard Donald Trump talking about tariffs once again, 445 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 8: saying he'll use them to encourage production in the US. Tariffs, 446 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 8: of course, unlike tax policy, maybe something Donald Trump, if 447 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 8: he uses certain presidential powers when it comes to economic crisies, 448 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 8: for example, he could enact all on his own. And 449 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 8: especially considering we're analyzing jobs data today awaiting the big 450 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 8: non farm payrolls report tomorrow as a guide to tell 451 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 8: us when the FED will cut rates, or rather by 452 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 8: how much, how soon, how quickly are these kind of 453 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 8: policies he's outlining actually going to mean that the Fed's 454 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 8: cutting cycle might not last very long. 455 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 9: Well, that's one way to look at it is that 456 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 9: his policies will be inflationary. That is the conclusion of 457 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,959 Speaker 9: almost all the Wall Street firms that have looked at it, 458 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 9: because it's Americans and businesses in America who pay the 459 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 9: tariff cost and not the foreigners. So it would add 460 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 9: to inflation. How fast hard to say, and so hard 461 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 9: to know exactly what the FEDS timing would be on it. 462 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 9: But he can pose some punitive tariffs as he did 463 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 9: on China, as Joe Biden did on China, in situations 464 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 9: where there is a provable unfair trade. He can't impose 465 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 9: the ten to twenty percent universal tariff without congressional action, 466 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 9: and that's probably not going to happen. But the bottom 467 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 9: line is is even if you impose all these tariffs, 468 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 9: you can't raise much money. And whether Americans pay it 469 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 9: or foreigners pay it, it would be only a small 470 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 9: fraction of what is lost by the income taxes, So 471 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 9: it doesn't really make any sense. The US government's budget 472 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 9: was much much smaller when, as he quoted William McKinley 473 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 9: today saying that tariffs would work under McKinley's presidency, tariffs 474 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 9: raised most of the money. But that's why we went 475 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 9: to the income tax shortly after McKinley was gone, because 476 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 9: it didn't raise enough money. 477 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 8: All right, Bloomberg Economics and Policy Correspondent Michael McKee, thank 478 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 8: you so much for helping us analyze what we're hearing 479 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 8: from both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris in terms of 480 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 8: the policy they'd like to pursue. 481 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ketch 482 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Appo, CarPlay and 483 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: then Proud Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on 484 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live 485 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: on YouTube, indeed. 486 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 8: On Bloomberg TV and Radio. Live from the studio here 487 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,719 Speaker 8: in Washington. Two guests are joining us, the verse being 488 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 8: Peter Chapman I onm q CEO, which is a quantum 489 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 8: computing company, together with Democratic Congressman Glenn Ivy of Maryland. 490 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 8: He represents the fourth district, and of course, congressmen you 491 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 8: are here along with Peter. Given Peter's work in Maryland 492 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 8: and at UMD specifically, welcome to you both. Thank you 493 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 8: so much for your time. Peter, I'd love to just 494 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 8: begin with you because i think for a lot of people, 495 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 8: they hear quantum computing, they read a headline like the 496 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 8: Biden administration targeting China's development and that area, and they think, Okay, 497 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,719 Speaker 8: what do I need to know about? Why is this 498 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 8: viewed as critical technology that would require export controls? What 499 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 8: do we need to know? 500 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 10: So quantum computing, there's two aspects to it. One is 501 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 10: a national security concern. A large enough quantum computer could 502 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 10: break encryption, and so we use encryption for digital data 503 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 10: for our communications infrastructure. And if you can break that, 504 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 10: that means that you can hack into people's emails, you 505 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 10: can listen to digital conversations, and you can alter restore 506 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 10: all of our records in digital files, and that's how 507 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 10: we use them as truth and so now all of 508 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 10: a sudden you could go through and change who owns properties, 509 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 10: who owns stocks, all those kinds of things. So that's 510 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 10: one aspect. The other one is that it's expected for 511 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 10: the next fifty years that the economy will be powered 512 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 10: by quantum and so there's a global space space race 513 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 10: to see who's going to be the leader for the 514 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 10: next fifty years using this technology. 515 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 2: So here we have in a literal sense, a public 516 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 2: private partnership at the table here today, Congressman, your take 517 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 2: here as we hear from the Biden administration. I don't 518 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 2: know if you saw this coming, but it seems that 519 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 2: we're in a world with technologies like this and artificial 520 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 2: intelligence where you both need each other. 521 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 11: Right now, Oh absolutely, I think, and I think the 522 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 11: government needs the private sector more than the other way around. 523 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 4: But I think we want to. 524 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 11: Make sure that we're supportive of their efforts and make 525 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 11: sure in part that we stay out of the way, 526 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 11: but also in part that we provide the type of 527 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 11: capital and support that they need. 528 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 4: Stay out of the way, provide guardrails as well well. 529 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 11: I mean, it's a fine line, especially since most of 530 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 11: us in the government I'll include myself in that category, 531 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 11: don't know much about what they're actually doing. So when 532 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 11: you get deep into the weeds. There's a reason I 533 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 11: went to law school and didn't stay on the PhD track. 534 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 4: This is one of those. 535 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 11: But you know, I think it's important for us to 536 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 11: make sure that we're facilitating their growth and their development 537 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 11: and research because we are in competition with China and 538 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 11: other countries. To make sure that we can stay ahead 539 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 11: of the curve on this front and also maximize the capabilities. 540 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 11: As you heard, the military applications, the cybersecurity issues, and 541 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 11: just the other research possibilities are all powerful reasons to 542 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 11: do that well. 543 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 8: And part of that competition with China does reflect itself 544 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 8: and things like exports controls, but arguably it also does 545 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 8: in say legislation like the Chips Act, where the US 546 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 8: is trying to make more of this stuff on US 547 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 8: shores rather than having it be centered in places like China. 548 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 8: Do you have a relationship with that kind of legislation. 549 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 8: Do we need a Quantum Computing Act realistically or are 550 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 8: these things actually intersected. 551 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 10: Some intersection, But we definitely need more investment by the 552 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 10: US government to go to quantum industries. If you look 553 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 10: at China, they've allocated fifteen billion dollars. They've built a 554 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 10: small city in China which is just for quantum. The 555 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 10: five year Plan for China states that they will leap 556 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 10: fraud the US and the West by using quantum technologies. 557 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 10: We haven't allocated that kind of money because it really 558 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 10: is a public private partnership. So the way we compete 559 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 10: in the West is not just through government but also 560 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 10: through industry, and so we need to strengthen that relationship 561 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 10: to be able to compete against countries like China. 562 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 4: I'd like to hear from you more, Peter on cybersecurity. 563 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 4: It's what you said is important here. 564 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 2: We're calling the crowd strike event, the intense competition with 565 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 2: Palo alto the questions that we have and kind of 566 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 2: like you mentioned, congressmen falling into the arms of these 567 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 2: companies with technologies that we don't always understand. If quantum 568 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 2: computing can crack cyber defenses, can it also enhance cybersecurity 569 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 2: if used properly. 570 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 10: Yes, it's both the problem and also the solution. So 571 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 10: we're working on and others are working on quantum networks, 572 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 10: and these quantum eworks then can't be hacked by quantum computers. 573 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 10: So it's both the problem and also that's the security. Indeed, 574 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 10: it is. 575 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 8: Like kind of reminds me of diamond is the only 576 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 8: thing that can cut another diamonds kind of situation. I'm 577 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 8: just trying to think of a way to analytes that's 578 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 8: in my head. So as we talk about the idea 579 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 8: that this maybe have important implications for national security cybersecurity, 580 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 8: you obviously think of public private partnership is very important. 581 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 8: Is this also bipartisan? We know that competition with China 582 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 8: is maybe one of the few things that you and 583 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 8: your colleagues can agree on on capital. 584 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 11: Head every now and then, they're one of those that 585 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 11: pop up. This I think is one of those. I 586 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 11: think the challenge that was really going to come down 587 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 11: to the allocation of funds and my Republican colleagues, as 588 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 11: you may have heard, are you trying to move these 589 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 11: sort of funding issues in a different direction overall? But 590 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 11: I think even here we can find bipartisans. 591 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 8: So the ability for the US to be competitive and 592 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 8: quantum computing could be completely related to the spending fight 593 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 8: that's about to go down when you return to the. 594 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 4: Well, I'll see. I'll say it this way. 595 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 11: I mean, as you just heard, you've got nations that 596 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 11: are actually trying to poach US companies. 597 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 4: And get them to move there are that are in 598 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 4: this field. 599 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 11: And at the same time, you've got a gigantic investment 600 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 11: by China in the in the computing field, the quantum 601 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 11: computing field. So if we want to stay competitive and 602 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 11: stay ahead of the curve, which allows us to deal 603 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 11: with some of the other factors you were talking about, 604 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 11: like export controls. If we're behind, we don't have to 605 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 11: worry about export controls. We're trying to catch up. We're 606 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 11: still in the lead and we can maintain that, but 607 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 11: it's going to take I think, a joint effort. We've 608 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 11: left out academia as well. There's the third corner of 609 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 11: the iron triangle. But if all of us work together 610 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 11: in a coordinated way, like we should, I think we 611 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 11: can maintain our supremacy. 612 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 4: This is about education. Though it sounds like you guys 613 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 4: are on a road. 614 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 2: Show to tell people what we're talking about. We can't 615 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 2: get through a day without hearing about AI. It's quantum computing. 616 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 2: A blind spot in Washington. 617 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 11: I mean, I think AIS it's a broad umbrella. They're 618 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 11: blind spots under that rubric too. Sometimes people are talking 619 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 11: about different things. But at the end of the day, 620 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 11: I think Congress needs to focus, and we need to 621 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 11: do it by committee because you know, not everything's going 622 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 11: to fall under every category. Deep deep fakes for example. 623 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 11: That's one committee, but doesn't necessarily go to these kinds 624 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 11: of issues and challenges. 625 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 4: The military applications. 626 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 11: We haven't even talked about drones yet, but I think, 627 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 11: you know, we need to make sure we're moving forward 628 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 11: on all of those fronts in a way that allows 629 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 11: the scientists to take the lead and with support from 630 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 11: the government in academia. 631 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 10: Yeah, just these new quantum networks. So we're working on 632 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 10: quantum computing and also quantum networking. Within quantum, there's another 633 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 10: area which is quantum sensing, new ways to be able 634 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 10: to image into the ground oil exploration. Of those things 635 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 10: we're doing two out of the three quantum networks. One 636 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 10: of the places to be able to build a quantum 637 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 10: network to a drone and then the neat thing about 638 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 10: that is you can't hack the communication to the drone, 639 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,879 Speaker 10: so when you were if you were in Ukraine, there's 640 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 10: no way to block the communication between the drone and 641 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 10: the ground, and so it's maybe a really powerful way 642 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 10: to be able to control things on the battlefield. 643 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 4: Fascinating. 644 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 2: Peter Chapman, great conversation with a s HEREI, A unique 645 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 2: conversation that we've been looking forward to. 646 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 4: CEO I on CUE, thanks for sharing your expertise. We'd 647 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 4: love to talk to you again. 648 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 2: You're sitting on clearly some extremely powerful technology and a 649 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 2: great conversation with Congressman Glenn Ivy we're not done with you. 650 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 4: A couple of questions. 651 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 2: About what Kaylee mentioned the funding battle, and I know 652 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 2: that we could be talking about another potential shutdown, but 653 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 2: that doesn't happen in an election year, does it. 654 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 11: You know, I just heard one of my colleagues on 655 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 11: I listened to the counter programming every now and then 656 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 11: today I was doing that on the way in and 657 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 11: he's actually talking about this is one of the leaders 658 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 11: of the Freedom talk is who's actually talking about a shutdown, 659 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 11: And he said potential could be a week, could be 660 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 11: all the way to November fifth. 661 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 4: Is this because of the Save Act? Is that where 662 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 4: the fall connected it to the Save Act? 663 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 11: But you know they've been talking about that kind of 664 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 11: stuff since before then. But you know, at the end 665 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 11: of the day, I think obviously that's beyond irresponsible and 666 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,479 Speaker 11: damaging to the US economy at a time when things 667 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 11: seem to be moving in a better direction than they 668 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 11: had been. And I just think the government ought to 669 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 11: be able to take care of a basic function like 670 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 11: staying open and paying its debts. 671 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 8: Well, of course, your work doesn't stop there. We just 672 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 8: have a minute left, Congressman. But you, of course are 673 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 8: on the task force that's looking into the attempted assassination 674 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 8: of Donald Trump. He suggested in an interview with doctor 675 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 8: Phil just that last week that he thinks Joe Biden 676 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 8: and Kamala Harris might be partly to blame for that 677 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 8: happening to him. Have you unearthed any evidence of that 678 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 8: in the investigation? 679 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 11: No, But more importantly, the FBI hasn't either, and the 680 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 11: Secret Service hasn't either. And I'm not aware of anything 681 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 11: concrete by anybody, even the people on the fringes other 682 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 11: than Donald Trump, who've even suggested something like that. So 683 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 11: that's it's a pathetic comment, frankly, and it's unfortunate because 684 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 11: it feeds into these kinds of conspiracy theories that I 685 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 11: think continue to undermine American democracy at a time when 686 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 11: we just heard the other day that Russian some of 687 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 11: our adversaries are trying to take advantage of that and 688 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 11: use that against us. 689 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 2: Are you confident that the Secret Service will keep both 690 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 2: of these candidates safe for the rest of the campaign. 691 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 11: I am, But I think there's obviously room for improvement. 692 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 11: We need to keep really working and focusing on making 693 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 11: sure that all of the improvements get made as quickly 694 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 11: as possible. We also have an accountability issue here too. 695 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 11: Something went horribly wrong in July thirteenth, and the people 696 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 11: that allowed that to happen need to be held accountable. 697 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 6: Yeah. 698 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 8: Of course we've seen the resignation of Kim Cheatle, but 699 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 8: the question is whether or not more heads could roll 700 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 8: and what actually happens within the Secret Service in the 701 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 8: aftermath of this. Congressman, great to see you here in 702 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 8: our Washington, DC studio. We should do this more often. 703 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 8: Congressman Ple and Ivy, the Democrat from Maryland, appreciate your time. 704 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. 705 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 706 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 707 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at Noontimeeastern at 708 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com.