1 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: Last week, the view host Sonny Hoisten did one of 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: those in depth genealogy shows called Finding Your Roots, and 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: she discovered she was descended from slave owners. 5 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 2: You can see on her face. 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: That she's devastated and upset by the news. She really 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: doesn't know how to react. Media picked up the story 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: that Sonny's mom cried to learn about the family slave 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: owning past. 10 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: She was deeply disappointed. 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 1: It's bizarre to me disappointment in your family history. Disappointment 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: is a failure to meet expectations. You expected everyone in 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: your family story to be a good person with modern morals. 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: Maybe it's the Russian in me. I have no such expectations. 15 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: But more than this, you cannot change the past. You 16 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: can't change where you came from or the people who 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: came before you. What has always been the glory of 18 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: America is you get to start from scratch here. I 19 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: lived in Britain for a few years during college in Scotland, 20 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: and I was asked with some frequency what my father 21 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: did for a living. They wanted to know how to 22 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: categorize me. But in America, I never got asked that ever, 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: and the idea always was that every generation gets to 24 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: start anew. The problem is that Sonny had bought into 25 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: this idea that we can't shake off the proverbial shackles 26 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: of the past. We're supposed to carry all of it 27 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: around with us all the time, and we're certainly supposed 28 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 1: to carry the blame of what people who may share 29 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: our skin tone did. So now she's tarred by her 30 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: slave owner relatives. She brought the shame onto herself. On 31 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: this show, we talk about living a better life, and 32 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: a lot of that is letting go, letting go of 33 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: bad things that happened to you, for example, and moving forward, 34 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: but also definitely letting go of things that happened generations 35 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: before you were born and over which you have no control. 36 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: You cannot be happy if you carry around every mistake 37 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: made not only by you, but every one of your lineage. 38 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 2: Who ever lived. Don't be like Sonny. 39 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: I enjoyed collecting your stories to help our single friends. 40 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: So let's try this again. I'm collecting stories for next 41 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: Monday's episode. If you listen to the show, you know 42 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: that I ask all of my guests to offer their 43 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: best tip on how to improve their lives. Give me 44 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: your tip, write to us at Carolmarcowitz Show at gmail 45 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: dot com, or tweet at me at. 46 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 2: Carol on X. I'll read some of. 47 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: The responses on the show, so definitely tune in. 48 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 2: Thank you. Coming up next and interview with Neil Pollock. 49 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: Join us after the break day and welcome back to 50 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is 51 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: Neil Pollock. Neil is the author of twelve very important 52 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: books of fiction and nonfiction, a freelance writer who contributes 53 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: to many publications, including most currently The Spectator and Observer, 54 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: a three time Jeopardy champion, and the editor in chief 55 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: of Book and Film Globe, which you can find at 56 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: Book Andfilmglobe dot com. 57 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: Hi Neil, how are you well, Carol? 58 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so nice to talk to you. 59 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 4: We've we've been a social media acquaintances for a long time, 60 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 4: but we've never actually. 61 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 3: Seen yes person. 62 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on. Twelve books. That's 63 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: a lot. Which one is your favorite? 64 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 3: I mean, you know. 65 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 4: There are you know, you have several children, so you 66 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 4: know it's hard, it's hard to favorite. I always I 67 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 4: always tend to like the most recent one, right, but 68 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 4: I'm you know, my most recent one was a like 69 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 4: a sci fi satire of COVID politics, so well, I 70 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 4: do love it, it didn't exactly find a huge audience. 71 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 4: Before that, I wrote a memoir about quitting marijuana, which 72 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 4: I'm quite fond. 73 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 3: I've written several books about yoga. 74 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 4: But really I think most currently I wrote a book 75 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 4: a few about a decade ago called jew Ball, which 76 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 4: is about Jewish basketball players in Philadelphia in the nineteen 77 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 4: thirties fighting Nazis. 78 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: So that's awesome. 79 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I feel like that one, that one really 80 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 4: rings true to me these days, given you know, the 81 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 4: current political situations, I'll pick Jewball. 82 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: I feel like I have to check out some jew Ball. 83 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really good. 84 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: So what's your like, how long does it take you 85 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 1: to write a book? 86 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: I only have the one book. I say. 87 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: It's my first and last book. So the idea of 88 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: twelve books is really crazy to me, and I just 89 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: want to know more about it. 90 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 3: When I'm rolling, I can knock one out in about 91 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: six months. I you know, I have one. I have 92 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 3: a novel that. 93 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 4: I've currently been working on for a lot more than 94 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 4: a year, and it's going slowly, largely because I spend 95 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 4: a lot of time playing competitive poker, and that. 96 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 2: Just seems we'll get to that. 97 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 3: It consumes a. 98 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 4: Lot of my brain space, so I don't my creativity, 99 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 4: you know, doesn't isn't always flowing, but when I'm going good, 100 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 4: and my books most are pretty short when I'm going good. 101 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 3: Though about about interesting? 102 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because I think of poker as a 103 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: completely different side of my brain, like more practical, more 104 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: like I don't know, just not the artsy, you know, 105 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: kind of fiction part of my brain that that I 106 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: would need to write fiction books. I see it as 107 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: like math more than writing. I don't know, But yet 108 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: you say that you it's. 109 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 2: In your way. 110 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 4: Well, it's like math and it's like sports, right, so 111 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 4: you know, it's an intellectual activity. So I just find 112 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 4: myself thinking about it a lot, and the what, Yeah, 113 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 4: it's different parts of the brain, but you know, I 114 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 4: only have so I have so much brain, so so 115 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 4: if the neurons are firing in that direction, I tend 116 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 4: to get distract. 117 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: So we originally connected. I think over the fact that 118 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: we both play poker, even though it's unfair and the worst. 119 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: What do you actually enjoy about the game. 120 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 4: Well, well, like you said at the outset, I won 121 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 4: some games on Jeopardy, right, so like I had that 122 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 4: feeling of like winning big, you know, of like of 123 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 4: being the champion, of hitting the jackpot. 124 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 3: Because of my mental acuity. 125 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 4: And you know, poker, while the edges are a lot smaller, right, 126 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 4: Like I'm a really like good competitive trivia player, and 127 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 4: you know, can could be like ninety nine point nine 128 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 4: percent of the population in a trivia competition, whereas in 129 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 4: poker it's like, yeah, it could be fifty two point 130 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 4: three percent of population. 131 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 3: Sometimes. 132 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's like you just there's a lot 133 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 4: more They're a lot more variable. So what I mean 134 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 4: what I I like the idea of like somehow like 135 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,119 Speaker 4: just walking into a car room with one hundred bucks 136 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,119 Speaker 4: and walking out with four thousand bucks, which happens, but really, 137 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 4: yeah it does. You could also walk in with a 138 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 4: thousand bucks and leave with zero, which also happens. But 139 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 4: I like the I like to win it. 140 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you keep track of your wins and losses? 141 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 3: I have a spreadsheet? 142 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I think that's really important, and I've I've 143 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: like put a lot of kind of younger poker players 144 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: onto that idea because they've like never even considered tracking it. 145 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: You know, it's just like in their pocket that day. 146 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 3: I have a spreadsheet. And I also, like, I'm extremely. 147 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 4: Parsimonious. I guess that's the word. You're really careful with 148 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 4: my money. So you know, I have a poker fund 149 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 4: that I keep in a secret place like. 150 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: Kids call that a bank roll a bank like. 151 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 4: I keep it in the wall like Matt Damon and Rounders, 152 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 4: and I pull it out when I have to. And 153 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 4: I other than like occasionally like going to the bank 154 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 4: and getting twenty. 155 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 3: Bucks to pay a fee or like an entry something 156 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 3: I don't. 157 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 4: I don't use my actual money to play. 158 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 3: So I have, you know. 159 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 4: And then I have an online thing where I played 160 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 4: for petties just to kind of get the hand reps in. 161 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: You know, how long have you been playing? 162 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 3: I start well, on and off for about twenty years. 163 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 4: I can only imagine where it was like to play 164 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 4: me in the Commerce casino in LA in two thousand 165 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 4: and fourtant I mean, I was. 166 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 3: Stoned out of my mind. I had no idea what 167 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 3: I was. 168 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 4: Doing, so was everybody else those everybody else, but I 169 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 4: was like playing for I was like buying in these 170 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 4: cash games are like forty bucks and always losing. I've 171 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 4: been playing, I would say, somewhat seriously since about twenty nineteen. 172 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 2: Do you think you could support yourself with it if 173 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: you had to? 174 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 3: I don't know. It's hard to say. 175 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 4: It's hard to say because I had a sixty thousand 176 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 4: dollars win in twenty twenty two. 177 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 3: You know, I finished second in a six hundred dollars 178 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 3: buying tournament, and you know that's a ton of money. 179 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 3: And I walked out. 180 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 4: I walked out of the card room in Round Rock. 181 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 4: I live in Austin, Texas, and the Round Rock is 182 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 4: a suburb just north here. I walked out of the 183 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 4: card room at like five in the morning with a 184 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 4: Manila envelope full of Franklin. Greg went home, and I 185 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 4: dumped some one. My wife was sleeping in bed when 186 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 4: I went dumped him on it, and well she did, 187 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 4: although she was like, no, I can never I can 188 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 4: never tell you can't go play poker again. You know, 189 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 4: we you know, we bought a car with it. We 190 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 4: went to we went on vacation to Mexico City. We 191 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 4: were able to do some house repaired stuff we were. 192 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 3: Waiting to do. 193 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 4: But uh so, yeah, but then since then about even 194 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 4: you know, I'm about five hundred. 195 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 3: After that, I went on the seven thousand dollars down 196 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 3: swing and then I quit for a while. I started 197 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 3: up again and I won a few thousand. I lost 198 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 3: a few thousand. 199 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 4: So it's like I would have to like have a 200 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 4: big starter chunk of money in order to even try 201 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 4: to make a living at it. 202 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,719 Speaker 3: I like playing tournaments, and that's variance is. 203 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think. 204 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, I think the only way to I mean, 205 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 1: and I know I know that a lot of poker 206 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: players would disagree with this, but to me, the only 207 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: way to make a living playing poker would have to 208 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: be cash games, because when you're up, you have to 209 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: walk away from the table because you've got bills to pay, 210 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: and you can't just you know, you can't just ride 211 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: it out and see where it goes, like and the 212 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: way you would have to in a tournament. 213 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 4: So well are cash game player because they get real 214 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 4: nervous about money. 215 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 3: So if I get up, then I often blow it 216 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 3: and if I get. 217 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 4: Down and get really depressed, and I just just the 218 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 4: way that people play in cash games is not doesn't 219 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 4: really register with my brain, whereas in tournaments. 220 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 3: I like the sort of ebb and flow of the strategy. 221 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 4: Yeah, and so I just I just prefer that kind 222 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 4: of game, even though the variance is just absurd, right. 223 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: I think the the just emotional rollercoaster of poker is 224 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: it is hard to maintain. 225 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: I don't know how people do it, but I've done it. 226 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: I've done it. 227 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: I've been through periods of my life where I supported 228 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: myself playing poker, Like I used to work on campaigns, 229 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: and in between campaigns, I would play and I was 230 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: always like a one two cash game player, which people listening, 231 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: that's like the one of the lower levels. 232 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 2: And I never want yeah, and I never wanted to 233 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 2: move up. 234 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: I like a lot of people would get really good 235 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: at one two and then move up to two five, 236 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: and I'd be like, why would I want to play 237 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: better players? 238 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 2: Like I want to play the. 239 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: People who are here at the one two table that 240 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: I've gotten good at. I never quite understood the need 241 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: to move up to higher levels if I've gotten good 242 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: at the one that I'm at already. 243 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and I played tournaments because again, like 244 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 4: tournaments is about not about making money as much as 245 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 4: it's about winning trophies and bracelets and rings. And I've 246 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 4: like I've driven up to Oklahoma to play at the 247 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 4: World Series of Poker Circuit events at the Chalk Taw 248 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 4: Casino and like, you know, gotten two couple final tables 249 00:11:57,640 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 4: and gotten pretty close to those rings, and you know 250 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 4: that that would be that would be really great. 251 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 3: Uh, to accomplish. Just it's like the like the intellectual. 252 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 2: Accomplished and of it, right, and also the money, The 253 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 2: money is. 254 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 4: Good, sure, sure, yeah, I mean I like, I like money. Yeah, 255 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 4: I'm also realistic, you know that the real goal is 256 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 4: just to kind of stay in the game and then 257 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 4: it totally and then if I hit if I hit a. 258 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 3: Jackpot like I did a couple of years ago. 259 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 2: Mm hmm, do you feel like you've made it? 260 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 4: You know, that's an interesting question because like I've written 261 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 4: twelve books, and I've I've written for like pretty much 262 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 4: every English language publication under the sun except for The 263 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 4: New Yorker. 264 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 3: I mean, there was a time a few years ago. 265 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 4: Where I had satire columns going simultaneously in Salon and 266 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 4: The Federalist. You couldn't, yeah, right, Like you couldn't ask 267 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 4: for like a wider ideological range of publications. 268 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 3: Invanity Fair. 269 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 4: You know, I was Jeopardy, I was a guest on 270 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 4: The Daily Show back when, like my writing career was 271 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 4: really booming twenty years ago. So I've really kind of 272 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 4: like accomplished most of what I set out to do 273 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 4: in life. 274 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 2: You know, Let's say, you haven't managed to ban kids 275 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 2: from restaurants, which I know is one of your big, 276 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 2: you know, big issues that you care about. 277 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, I just I don't have the time and patience 278 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 4: to set up a foundation, you know what I mean. 279 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 4: I would like to see that happen, So no, so yes, 280 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 4: So of course I have disappointments like that. 281 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 3: So yes. 282 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 4: In some ways, like I've pretty much accomplished at all. 283 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 4: And if I were to die tomorrow, which I'm not 284 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 4: going to do, more more than likely, I think, you know, 285 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 4: you could say that it's kind of been complete, right, 286 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 4: But on the other hand, like I find myself thinking, like, well, shit, 287 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 4: you know, I haven't done that. I haven't you know, 288 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 4: I've never gotten to make a TV show or a 289 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 4: movie my career. While it's I'm still in the game 290 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 4: amazingly enough, considering that you know, the just attrition in 291 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 4: this business. 292 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 3: I'm still in the game, but you know I was. 293 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 3: I was much I had a higher. 294 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 4: Status let's say, fifteen twenty years ago than I do now, 295 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 4: you know, I'm not. Just kind of like a guy 296 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 4: who's still kind of playing around in the ecosystem. 297 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 3: So sometimes I have those disappointments. So it's like, yes, 298 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 3: I've made it. On the other hand, and maybe I'm not. 299 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 3: I could. I'd like to get back to where I 300 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 3: was in some. 301 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 2: Way to So what kind of movie or TV show 302 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: are you looking to make? 303 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 3: Probably something in the realm of comedy would be good, 304 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 3: you know I would. Yeah, right, you know. So what 305 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 3: was it? 306 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 4: It was about, well, not quite twenty years ago, I 307 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 4: had this book called Alternadad about being a hipster parent, 308 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 4: which was a thing among gen xers. 309 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 3: Uh back back in the day. 310 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 4: There is this there is a sort of a when 311 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 4: gen X started to reproduce, I was obsessed with making 312 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 4: sure that my son was cool and was into cool 313 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 4: gen X things, which I think was a sentiment that 314 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 4: a lot of people of my age in general sociological 315 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 4: background shared, And so I wrote a comic memoir about it, 316 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 4: and it got some press attention. You know, I w 317 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 4: I did the Tory Circuit and I uh, it was 318 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 4: optioned by Hollywood, and so, you know, we moved to 319 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 4: Los Angeles to try to turn it into a movie 320 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 4: or you know, we like we sold our house and 321 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 4: because like it was looking good, right, and so I 322 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 4: had you know, there were moments where it looked like 323 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 4: it was going to get made into something and. 324 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 3: It just it just kind of fell apart on me 325 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 3: and then we had to we lost all our money. 326 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 3: We had to move back to Austin in. 327 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 4: Shame, and you know, so that was that was kind 328 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 4: of rough. And then since then, there hasn't been a 329 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 4: lot of opportunities. I am sort of vaguely thinking that 330 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 4: it would be interesting to make something funny about poker. 331 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 3: M hm. 332 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 4: Poker does occasionally pop up in in uh in film 333 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 4: and TV, but there hasn't There haven't been a it 334 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 4: hasn't been a good There hasn't been a good show 335 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 4: or movie about like contemporary poker. I guess there was 336 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 4: that Jessica Chastain Molly's Game thing. 337 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was good, but it wasn't funny. 338 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 3: It was fun to watch the Poker. I went back 339 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 3: and I watched it again. 340 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 4: Like the poker there's a whole subplot with that, like 341 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 4: the rag at the commerce casino who got bluffed by 342 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 4: an idiot in a home game and then lost his 343 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 4: mind and died. 344 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 3: I was like, well, yeah, I actually. 345 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: Seen that was was that the guy who folded the nuts, 346 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: which is the nuts is the best possible second nuts? No, 347 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: I think there was also a hand like where somebody 348 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: folds the actual nuts like something. 349 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 4: I think what happened He had these second nuts and 350 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 4: there's this idiot who always blot who doesn't know what 351 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 4: he's doing, had absolutely nothing, and this good poker player 352 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 4: folded and lost one hundred thousand dollars or something in 353 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 4: a hand and then like that sent him on some 354 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 4: kind of spiral anyway, So that that's you know that 355 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 4: that game, that game, that movie was was good, but 356 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 4: it was like there's also a lot of scenes of 357 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 4: Jessica Chesska skiing, So so I don't want to make 358 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 4: a so I'd like, I'd like to try something in 359 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 4: that realm maybe. And also I've been for years these 360 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 4: screenwriters and I have been had these two novels. 361 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 3: About a a l a private eye who was also 362 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 3: a yoga teacher, and we've been sending fusing with that 363 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 3: and seeing if we can adapt that into a show. 364 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 3: You know, I feel like. 365 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 4: Yoga, the yoga world is is always right for satire, 366 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 4: something mockery, mockery, mockery and also but also like I 367 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 4: practice yoga so mockery. 368 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 3: And you do I have. I've been practicing now more 369 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 3: than twenty years. 370 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 2: That's really interesting. I would not have imagined that. 371 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm a certified Ashtanga Vignyasa instructure. In twenty ten, 372 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 4: I moved to Colorado for a month and I studied 373 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 4: with this I guess you call him a man. He's 374 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 4: more modeled in that it's like a yoga master. And 375 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 4: I went to his intensive workshop and studied with. 376 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 3: Like it was like serious but chanting in Sanskrit. Wow, 377 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 3: and like anatomy. 378 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 4: And I mean we did a lot of physical stuff, 379 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 4: but I took a Buddhist meditation course at the Shambala 380 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 4: Center and Boulder and so like. 381 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 3: You know, so there's a I mean, I take yoga seriously, 382 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 3: but it's also quiet. 383 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 384 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Markowitz Show. A question I ask 385 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: all of my guests is what do you consider the 386 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: largest societal or cultural problem and do you think it's solvable. 387 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 4: Well, we talked about this a lot on Book and 388 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 4: Film Globe. I think that we have there's a censorial 389 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 4: attitude in our culture that, uh, I think is really damaging. 390 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, on the left, for instance, 391 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 4: in England, they're like Vodable Rising, PG Woadehouse, Rdyard Kipling, other, 392 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 4: Agatha Christie, other sort of classic authors rolled all and 393 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 4: they're they're there have these sensitivity readers that they're change, 394 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 4: They're like changing the books in certain small ways. 395 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 3: I just think that's ridiculous. 396 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 4: And then you know, during COVID especially, you saw how 397 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 4: intolerant liberals, specifically liberals I would even say the left. 398 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 4: The liberals were about ideas that they didn't agree with. 399 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 4: You know, there were there was a lot of there 400 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 4: were a lot of That's what the whole Twitter files. 401 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 3: Thing was about. There are a lot of efforts. 402 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 4: To just shut down dialogue and uh and just control 403 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 4: the discoorse. 404 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 3: I didn't like that. 405 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 4: And I will say I know you, I know you 406 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 4: lean towards the conservative end of things. I will say 407 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 4: that there there's also that attitude to some extent on 408 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 4: the right, particularly what do I think, Well, in Texas recently, 409 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 4: right where I live, the state tried to get bookstores 410 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 4: to bookstores, not not middle school libraries. It's one thing 411 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 4: if you're like, well, maybe a middle school library shouldn't 412 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 4: be putting comic books about gender transition on the shelves. 413 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 4: I kind of feel like anything's fare game. But I 414 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 4: can understand that point of view. But they were saying 415 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 4: that bookstores, like independent bookstores, had to put like warning 416 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 4: labels on books that had like sexual content in them, 417 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 4: and I'm like, that's just that's just like Tipper Gore, 418 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,959 Speaker 4: you know, trying to you know, band run DMC or 419 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 4: whatever from the eighties. That's just that's just such a 420 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 4: moral majority crap. So I don't have any time for 421 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 4: that either. So I feel like people just need to 422 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 4: like stop censoring and stop thinking that censoring anything is 423 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 4: a solution, you know, with like this country, the society 424 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 4: is it is built. 425 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 3: On the foundations of the First Amendment. 426 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 4: It is sacred and it is inviolable, and I feel 427 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 4: like people just need to if something defends them, you 428 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 4: have to forage. 429 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 3: They have they have to deal with it like adults, right. 430 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. It used to be getting offended was just part 431 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: of life. Now it's like something we need to like curtail. 432 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 3: Well, you know, there's always been this puritanical strain in 433 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 3: American culture. 434 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 4: I mean there's there was the Hayes Code in Hollywood, 435 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 4: There's the Comics Code. You know, there were there were, 436 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 4: there's more majority of the eighties that, like I said, 437 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 4: Tipper Gore trying to put warning labels on records. There's 438 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 4: always this strain, but it doesn't ever seem to go away. 439 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 4: And so if you think something is too sexual tough, 440 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 4: if you think something isn't woke enough tough, expression is 441 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 4: is fine, you know, I mean even you know, I 442 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 4: mean I remember when the A c L. 443 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 3: Remember the seventies, the A c L. 444 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 4: You defended Nazi Nazis marching in scope of Illinois. Yeah, 445 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 4: that's not They wouldn't do that now they would try 446 00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 4: to know, they wouldn't. 447 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 3: They were trying to ban it up. I don't I'm Jewish. 448 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: I don't want to see Nazis, right, I mean, I'm. 449 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 4: Horrified that like the anti Jewish sentiment in the culture 450 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 4: right now, it just drives me, striving me crazy. But 451 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 4: I would never for a moment say don't let them 452 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 4: express it. We have to let all the we have 453 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 4: to air out all all that stuff. So anyway, yeah, 454 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 4: so that's our to me, that's our. Look, there's a 455 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 4: lot of problems in society, but that, to me, that's 456 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 4: that's the one that I feel like is the most 457 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 4: easily solvable. 458 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 2: Interesting, easily solvable. 459 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 4: Well, I mean easily solvable if everyone would just stop 460 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 4: censoring or thinking that censoring was good. I mean, you know, 461 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 4: because because the law, the First Amendment is there, it 462 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 4: hasn't been repealed. 463 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 3: You know, it's like it's right there, so just right there. Yeah, 464 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 3: it's not it's not like it has to. It's not 465 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 3: like we have to. 466 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 4: It's not like we have to you know, institute, freedom 467 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 4: of speech is a new value in our society. Literally 468 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 4: is the fact owning value of America and possibly America's 469 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 4: greatest contribution to the history of world culture. Right. 470 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: But I would say that it's become at least, you know, 471 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: the kind of bigger problem that I've seen with this 472 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: in the last you know, decade. I'm sure you've seen 473 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: the same is that people get targeted for their kind 474 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: of mainstream sometimes opinion that people just don't like and 475 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: they get fired. And you know the story of Jennifer's, say, 476 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: getting fired from Levi's or you know, being forced out 477 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: at Levi's for saying that. 478 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 2: Schools should be opened during you. 479 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: Know, COVID is just the classic story of that for me, 480 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: which is, you know, it's not First Amendment, right, It's 481 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: not like it was more, but it wasn't the government 482 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: shutting down her speech. It was like being targeted for 483 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: thinking the wrong thing. And that's like a scarier and 484 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: more difficult thing to solve. 485 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 4: I think, right, it's not a government problem, but it's 486 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,360 Speaker 4: still it's the same principle, right. And I know Jennifer say, 487 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 4: I'm part of a group, like a COVID, this sort 488 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 4: of COVID. 489 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 2: Skepuy, don't talk about the group, Neil. 490 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 4: I know her like a check okay to talk about that, there's. 491 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 2: Like no, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. It's like you know, 492 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 2: it's bike club, you know, talk about it. 493 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 3: I know her and like, you know, and I experienced 494 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 3: the same thing during COVID. I mean I didn't have it. 495 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 3: I'm I'm not getting getting. 496 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 4: Fired from my job by my boss for talking for 497 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 4: saying that movie theaters should be open. That was my 498 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 4: during COVID, is like movie theaters should be open. You're 499 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 4: not getting in movie theaters. 500 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 3: I went on and on and on. 501 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 4: You know, I have lost some contributors to my side 502 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 4: for over those opinions, and I you know, I lost 503 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 4: some marginal friends. 504 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I have to admit that I remember you 505 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: going to the movies, and I was very anti COVID 506 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: regulations and all that, but I was still like, ew, 507 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: I would never go to the movies right now, Well, 508 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: the movies. 509 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 2: I definitely remember thinking like that does not seem like 510 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 2: a good idea. 511 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 3: It was fine, it. 512 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 2: Was no, it was fine. Obviously it was fine. 513 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: But I was say, like, even me who was opposed 514 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 1: to all the regulations, I remember thinking like I wouldn't 515 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: go play poker because poker is always like the grossest, 516 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: you know, place in the whole casino. And I just 517 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: you know, and I wouldn't go to like various conferences 518 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: like Seapack is a conference I go to a lot 519 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: and everybody always comes homestick from the seapack, And I 520 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: was like, no way am I going during COVID and 521 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: movie theaters. I just thought, you know, they're kind of 522 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: always a little gross. And I I am a germa phobe, 523 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 1: I'll admit. So I remember you go to the movies, 524 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, I remember thinking, like, I wouldn't 525 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: do that. 526 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 3: I'm not a German. Stuff off the kitchen counter that's 527 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 3: been sitting there. 528 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 4: But yeah, so I wasn't My wife wouldn't let me 529 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 4: go play poker at the card room until after I 530 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 4: got vaccinatede whatever. 531 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 3: I mean, I really didn't care. Like I was out 532 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 3: in about. I went to I went to parties, I 533 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 3: went to bars. 534 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 4: Any if I knew anyone who was willing to do anything, Yeah, 535 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 4: I did it during COVID. And so I was living 536 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 4: living in Austin, and you know Greg Abbott like reopened 537 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 4: the state before COVID even got here, ye May first. 538 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 3: Twenty twenty. 539 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 4: He you know, he's got like a he doesn't have 540 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 4: the the he didn't have the guts of like DeSantis 541 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 4: and Florida to like actually channel the politics. And he 542 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 4: he did. He reopened and including reopened movie theater. 543 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 3: So they opened some movie theater at an entertainment complict 544 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 3: in Kyle, Texas. 545 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 4: It was like twenty miles south of my house, and 546 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 4: I was running this website about film and books. 547 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 3: So I got in. 548 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 4: My car and twenty miles. That told me about ten 549 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 4: minutes that day because there was no there were no 550 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 4: other cars on the road right, And I went to 551 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 4: see Vin Diesel in Bloodshot. 552 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 2: How was that? Had? 553 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: Not great? 554 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 4: But it's like everything else that was playing I'd already 555 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 4: seen before before they started shutting shuit down. 556 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 3: So I it was me as I walk in, I'm 557 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 3: wearing a mask, I have. 558 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 4: To, and there are all the signs, the six signs, 559 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 4: and everything's under plexiglass, and like there's a photographer from 560 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 4: the Austin American Statesman taking photos like like I'm like 561 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 4: like like a refugee, like arriving on the shores, and 562 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 4: I'm like, don't, don't take my picture. 563 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 3: I'm working here. And so I went. 564 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 4: I went to the movie with my little box of 565 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 4: Junior Mints that I bought at Walgreens, and I was 566 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 4: like lifting my mask down and surreptitiously nervously putting the 567 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 4: mints enough. And then there are like four working class 568 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 4: Mexican guys in the back round, not wearing mask, eating popcorn, 569 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 4: not not giving a shit. 570 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 2: You know, they hadn't heard about COVID. 571 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 3: Whatever respect to them. And then and then I didn't. 572 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: Die, and you not dying was a big step forward 573 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: for people like doing stuff Again, I feel. 574 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 3: Like it's true. I agree in a small I mean 575 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 3: in a small way. It's not like it was front 576 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 3: page news or anything. Right, So so that I kept going, 577 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 3: Like there. 578 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 4: Was that weird Russell Crowe movie, that revenge movie Unhinged 579 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 4: that came out that they debuted that I went to 580 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 4: see that, Like there were three other people in the 581 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 4: theater I went to. So they did a revival of 582 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 4: Blade Runner at the Paramount Theater down I'm kind of 583 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 4: going to see Blade Runner on a summer night in 584 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 4: twenty twenty. 585 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 3: That was that was about. Its just in an empty downtown. 586 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 4: That's what It's just tooking as you can get it with, 587 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 4: you know, Tenant all that, and I just kept going 588 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 4: to movies and I went to see There's a Freaky 589 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 4: Friday horror remakes darring Vince Vaughn who like swung bodies 590 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 4: with a cheerleader. 591 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 3: I went to see that, and I wrote about that. 592 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 3: People got fear, We're furious at you. I was just 593 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 3: fuck it, I want to go to the movies. I'm 594 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 3: going to keep going. 595 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 2: You were you were the hero we needed at the time. 596 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:29,959 Speaker 3: We just didn't know it. 597 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 2: We didn't know it then. 598 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, and no one remembers now. But it's okay, I remember, 599 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 3: right man. I appreciate that care. 600 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: So end here with your best tip for my listeners 601 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: on how they can improve their lives. 602 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 2: Well, let's circle back, you know stuff. 603 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's circle back. Let I would say, look, if 604 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 3: I can do yoga, me like a. 605 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 4: Middle aged schmuck you know in suburban Texas can do 606 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 4: yoga every day for twenty years. I mean, you can 607 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 4: do yoga too. It's it's you know, I practiced yesterday. 608 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 4: My legs are sore today, but I feel good. 609 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 3: And I woke up. 610 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 4: You know, I'm fifty almost fifty four years old. I 611 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 4: woke up feeling not a day over fifty one. 612 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 2: Nice. 613 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, So you know it's really good just for sort 614 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 4: of maintaining a baseline of mental health, insanity, and just 615 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 4: physical fitness. 616 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 3: You're you're not gonna get like ripped unless you're doing 617 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 3: it all day, every day. 618 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 4: It's some it's some cult in Los Angeles, but you're 619 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 4: it will help you. 620 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 3: Like get through the day with a calmness and a clarity, 621 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 3: will help your sleep, it'll help you your digestion, all 622 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 3: that stuff. So I would I would recommend to yoga. Yoga. 623 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 4: Yoga practice is really good, you know, and you don't 624 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 4: have to It doesn't have to be. 625 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 3: You know, hippy dippy religion. You know you don't feel 626 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 3: you know, you don't, there's no need for any of that. 627 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 4: You can go that route if you want, and I 628 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 4: have occasionally gone that route just to the part of 629 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 4: the world, but. 630 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 3: You don't have to. 631 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 4: It can be very practical, and there are lots of 632 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 4: examples of people who have lived very long and healthy 633 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 4: live just by doing yoga and not eating that craft 634 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 4: all the time. 635 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: So interesting. 636 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: You're my Yeah, you're my second unlikely guest to have 637 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: been into yoga. 638 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 2: Kevin McCullough was the first. 639 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: And it's just it's very interesting because I really would 640 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:36,959 Speaker 1: not have guessed it with either one of you. 641 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 4: So I like that it's not you know, yoga gets 642 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 4: this bad rap as being like something that like rich, 643 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 4: dumb coastal liberals do right, and. 644 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 3: It does well for a good reason because they do 645 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 3: a lot. But they're also all of those people are 646 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 3: very physically healthy. 647 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 2: They are, yeah. 648 00:30:55,480 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 4: And maybe insane, but mentally you know, so you know 649 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 4: there's a reason for that because of their practice. So 650 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 4: it's like, but yoga itself does not like, it's not 651 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 4: about politics. 652 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 3: You know. It's like there's lots of right wing Indian 653 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 3: people who do yoga. 654 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 4: No India is run by it right wing populous, you know, 655 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 4: and so you know, it's so it's not there's no 656 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 4: there's no require, there's no age requirement, there's no politics requiredment, 657 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 4: there's no idiot. 658 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 3: It's not about an ideology. 659 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 4: It's really just about like focusing on your breath and 660 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 4: like doing basic movements and like, you know, not not 661 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 4: stealing from people, unless you're playing poker, in which. 662 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 2: Case the last one seems like you might have just 663 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 2: added that on. 664 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 3: But there's one of the one of the presents, all right, 665 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 3: not being a huge, huge. 666 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: Ass like that, that's a good that's a you know, 667 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: that's a really good ending there. 668 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, don't be a huge ass. 669 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 2: Thank you all right, Thank you so much, Neil. It 670 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 2: was really nice having you on. Thank you. 671 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 3: Let's let's do this in for sometimes. 672 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on The Carol Markowitz Show. 673 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.