00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. 00:00:01 Speaker 2: I'm Joel. I'm Matt. 00:00:03 Speaker 1: Today, we're answering your listener questions. 00:00:12 Speaker 2: You know what, buddy? Hope you had a fantastic, did you have a fantastic weekend, my friend? It was fine. It was fine. 00:00:19 Speaker 3: Oh, dude. 00:00:20 Speaker 2: Of course it was great. It was good. It was good stuff. Are you sore? We rained yesterday and my calves are torched. I woke up this morning, I was just like, ah. No, I'm fine. 00:00:32 Speaker 1: I can barely walk around. But I use those muscles more than you do. 00:00:34 Speaker 2: Yes, you do. 00:00:35 Speaker 1: You use your upper body muscles much more than I do. 00:00:37 Speaker 2: And I use my lower, I use like, I don't know. I don't want this to sound like bro gym talk. I use my quads and my glutes when I'm back squatting and stuff like that. But in the garage, I don't do a whole lot of like calf workouts. I need to skip rope more often than I do. I bet if I did that when I would run with you, it wouldn't feel nearly as debilitating the next day. After my backpacking trip, it was like a seven mile hike, 3000 feet of elevation with my 40 pound pack on. And my, there's this one spot of my glutes that was so sore. And I was like, I guess I just don't use that muscle very often. And there's these micro muscles sometimes when you're hiking or you're bracing yourself. 00:01:18 Speaker 1: And it's like, okay, all right. That's a place where I'm deficient. 00:01:23 Speaker 2: Exactly. Like you do something that you don't normally do. And you realize, were you telling Emily, you're just like a little bit, a little bit higher, a little bit higher on the massage. She'll always help me work it out. Are you signed up for a race yet? What's your next race that you're going to run? Speaking of running. 00:01:39 Speaker 1: I don't know. 00:01:40 Speaker 2: I don't think I've, I haven't signed up for one. I just right now. Still waiting to see if you actually signed up for that 50 K. That's all. 00:01:46 Speaker 1: We'll see, man. We'll see my, I'm focused on my girls running season and I'll focus on me at a later date. 00:01:53 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:01:53 Speaker 4: All right. 00:01:55 Speaker 2: We kick things off oddly today for today's Ask How to Money episode, but we are taking a list of questions. We're going to hear from a young investor who's potentially interested in early retirement. Another listener is wondering if this life insurance policy that she has, if it's worth it, if she should be keeping it around or she should just drop it. And we'll take a quintessential home buying question as well, among other topics that we'll get to today, my friend. But we hope to hear, yeah, we want to hear from more listeners out there. If you listen to the show, send us your voice memo. There are easy, simple to follow instructions over at howtomoney.com forward slash ask. But literally all you do is record a voice memo on your phone. Sounds really good. I will say, I dress it up a little bit. I kind of make them sound even nicer, make it sound like studio quality. Run through a filter. Yeah, I do. What's it called? 00:02:51 Speaker 1: And great thing is your question might not, only be taken on the podcast, but also because it's the same thing on the video podcast now on YouTube. And you can see our lovely faces answer your question. Lovely might be an overstatement, but still go on over there, check it out, and we'll answer your questions in both formats. 00:03:11 Speaker 2: That's right. But since we already did a little banter, Joel, let's go ahead and jump straight into the questions. We're going to hear from a listener. Let's do it. and she is wanting to make sure she is essentially optimizing dollars that are currently being spent towards life insurance. 00:03:27 Speaker 4: Hi, Matt and Joel. This is Lori from Meridian, Idaho, and I have a life insurance question for you. I currently have a cash value life insurance policy that my parents took out for me when I was a kid, and the value is around $ 15, 000. My question is, am I better off continuing to pay those premiums, which are around $ 54 every three months to maintain the policy, or am I better off moving these funds into my high yield savings account to pad my emergency fund? There's an additional wrinkle to this question, which is I'm currently paying off some student loans that are Parent PLUS loans for my daughter with a pretty high balance and I'm on the public service loan forgiveness plan for these loans with about nine years to go on payments. Any additional income that I bring in, including this life insurance policy, would increase my income for purposes of calculating my payments as well as my taxes, and I'm really trying to avoid that. As an aside, I max out my 401k, and I also almost max out my 403b through my employer, and my children are both grown, yet not fully self-sufficient at this point. Any information that you can provide would be much appreciated. If you're ever in the Boise or Meridian area, there's some great breweries that you should check out. 00:05:01 Speaker 2: Thanks. All right. And on that note, Joel, are you enjoying anything to drink? She just mentioned breweries, and I didn't mention the beer that I'm enjoying. 00:05:11 Speaker 1: During this episode you're drinking a local one no I'm not drinking any beer Matt I have one in the fridge I could run and get it real quick I. 00:05:17 Speaker 2: Don't want you to feel bad but I'm drinking an automatic by Creature Comforts which is such an awesome daily drinker that's a really good beer Actually, when you say daily drinker, it makes it sound unhealthy, but I don't have one of these every single day. 00:05:30 Speaker 1: It's a great beer in the morning, right, when I wake up. 00:05:33 Speaker 2: Maybe my calves wouldn't feel like trash if I stopped drinking one of these every single day, Joel. Or a few every day. 00:05:40 Speaker 1: So, okay, Lori's question, there's a lot. She mentioned there's a wrinkle, right? And that wrinkle, I think, is a really important part. It is all about the wrinkle. 00:05:48 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:05:49 Speaker 1: We don't have any wrinkles, but Lori has a wrinkle in her question. 00:05:52 Speaker 2: And so. 00:05:53 Speaker 1: I think it's always important to consider the secondary consequences of money moves, right? And you don't want, oftentimes you don't want the, like a tax tail to wag a dog of the financial decision that you're making. But there are some times, right, where you really do have to take that into strong consideration. It's like, to me, this has similarities to like a Roth conversion, which can be a great move if you do it in the right way. over the right span of time. I remember there was this Wall Street Journal article, Matt, that we scoffed at at one point on a Friday flight because it basically made it sound like, hey, if you want to do a Roth conversion, why not do it all at once? Even if you have a giant sum of money, just do it in one fell swoop. That actually has similar results. And the truth is, for most people, no, it doesn't. It was poor evidence was presented in that article. And most people would be better off to do it over a number of years in order to reduce the tax drag and the overall amount that they have to pay to the government for turning that money into, you know, from post-tax into pre-tax or vice versa, whatever. My brain's skewered right now. But I think this matters a lot because when this decision influences what's going to happen with your student loan payment, you want to be even more careful. 00:07:16 Speaker 2: It's true. It depends on to the extent that it impacts our finances, though, right? 00:07:21 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:07:22 Speaker 2: And before I feel like you're setting me up to kind of launch into it, I just wanted to kind of address this life insurance policy, which you don't hear about these that much these days, right? And that's just because people aren't taking them on quite as much because more and more folks are taking on level term life insurance. which is what we want, which is that you have a predictable set amount that you're going to pay in for a predictable set amount of time where you have that policy. And were you to die, it pays you a guaranteed predictable set amount as well. And that's the kind of life insurance that we want to see people, that we wanted to see people purchase as opposed to something. Yeah, that feels more like a gift. Like back in the day, it was something that was, I don't know. People were slapping the life insurance label on lots of different things and co-mingling funds, mixing it with universal life and you had the ability to invest. And that's not the kind of life insurance that I like. I like the life insurance that's going to pay a set benefit were you to pass in some days depending on your income. 00:08:26 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:08:27 Speaker 1: The level term life insurance makes the most sense for the vast majority of people. 00:08:31 Speaker 2: It's the cheapest. 00:08:32 Speaker 1: It covers you for a set term before you reach essentially financial independence. And depending on kind of where you're at in life, a 20 or 30-year level term policy is the best thing for most people, right? But these sorts of policies that Lori's talking about, I had one of these. My parents bought one for me when I was a kid. And I still remember making this decision. I don't think I knew that. You had like a Gerber life insurance, like one of those Gerber? 00:08:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 00:08:58 Speaker 1: I think it was one of those things that parents, especially back in the day, were... And this might be the wrong, I want to say tricked into buying. 00:09:07 Speaker 2: It was just marketed. It was in vogue. 00:09:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, marketed into buying something as like, this is the smart financial thing to do for your kid because you love your kid. So buy a life insurance policy on them. 00:09:18 Speaker 2: Don't you love your kid? 00:09:19 Speaker 1: And one of the things they would say is like, if you're, I don't think they would actually, There was at least a hint that if your child were to pass away, it would help pay for funeral costs. I mean, this could be a necessity, right? But you and I know the reason for life insurance is to protect income if income were to be lost. 00:09:39 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:09:40 Speaker 1: Isn't making any income unless you've got like a child star on the Disney Channel or something like that, in which case you might want a life insurance policy on them. But for the most part, you don't want life insurance on a kid. It's a big, giant waste of money. And so now Lori is saying, what do I do with this policy that's been around for a long time? Should I keep it around? Or is it something that's better? Should I just take the cash essentially for the value that's been built up over the years? 00:10:09 Speaker 2: Exactly. 00:10:09 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:10:10 Speaker 2: And so that's what she's asking. And so at the end of the day, this is more of one of the nuts and bolts questions, right? And so what she needs to do is to figure out how much her income is going to increase were she to cash this thing out. Because yes, that will impact your public service loan forgiveness. So there are calculators out there, right? 00:10:31 Speaker 1: Moving forward. 00:10:32 Speaker 2: Exactly. Although for that next year, right? Because in the same way that it's going to reevaluate her income from the past year, it's not like this is something that's going to peg you to a high watermark that you're then forced to pay forever. It does re-evaluate every year. So that's one of the reasons I'm less concerned about Lori taking this, just stop paying on this potentially, taking that cash and doing smarter things with it. But it also has to do with the fact that Lori, like in order to figure out how much you're going to, how much income you're actually going to realize by cashing this thing out, you got to figure out your cost basis as well. And so you're not going to be taxed on that full $ 15, 000. I'm assuming she, you know, she said $ 15, 000. I'm assuming that's the cash value. You are only taxed on the amount beyond what you've paid in. So let's say you've paid $ 11, 000 into it, $ 15, 000 payout. Well, that's going to increase your income by $ 4, 000. You're only going to be taxed on that $ 4, 000. That's not a super significant amount. It might, yes, it might have an impact, on the your new adjusted monthly payment amounts when it comes to that income driven student loan repayment. But it's not so much that I wouldn't be I know, there's a part of me that hears Lori speak, and she's just like, I'm just kind of afraid of what that's going to do. But there's a way you can just put some of those fears to rest by crunching these numbers, looking at your your statement from this life insurance, and it'll have on there how much you've paid into it, it'll have It'll have the death benefit even, right? Like, were you to die? Because that's something else to consider. We were talking about life insurance as well. Like, what's the potential benefit? But you need to look at all of these numbers, kind of run the numbers and compare that to, what'd she say? $ 54 quarterly payment, right? That goes into it. 00:12:26 Speaker 1: That's a good highlight is that the stakes are actually probably lower than she thinks, which is one of the things you're saying is like that because... of the cost basis, well, actually how that's going to impact your taxes and then your student loan payment is probably more minimal than you think. And the truth is too, $ 54 a quarter is not all that much for a life insurance policy, but how big is the death benefit? Because if it's significant, then maybe you have a decent deal on your hands and you want to hold onto that life insurance policy. I don't, it sounds like her kids are getting older and then maybe she doesn't need the policy in the same way, but it's really important to assess, well, how much insurance do I need? And is this the best policy to suit my needs? Maybe a five or 10 year level term policy is even cheaper to get and provides more death benefit coverage in case something were to happen to her kids who haven't like fully flown the coop, it sounds like. But those are questions as well, because if you ask this life insurance policy, you got nothing else covering you if you were to die and covering your survivors, then that's something you might want to consider as well. 00:13:32 Speaker 2: That is true. But I mean, at the end of the day, if it was me and I was sitting in her situation, like when you do crunch those numbers, you can compare what your additional payment is going to be for that next year. You can calculate how much you're going to owe additional in taxes perhaps. But then you compare that to the extra, obviously the cash that you receive from that, but then the quarterly $ 54 that you can then stick into a high yield savings account And I think she doesn't want to feel the sting, like that upfront ripping the Band-Aid off. But once you do that, this will be, I think, a better decision moving forward as these dollars are eventually or initially put in a high yield savings, but then eventually even invested. Again, initially, it might sting a little bit, but the long term is going to be, I think, a better move. It's what I think I would be leaning towards. Again, you got to crunch the numbers. But I would be more interested in ditching this sort of inferior financial product and setting yourself up like on a healthy track for the long run as opposed to wanting to minimize the short-term pain. Does that make sense? 00:14:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I agree. And I think that's what I did with my life insurance policy, Matt, when I found out about it. 00:14:48 Speaker 4: Nice. 00:14:49 Speaker 1: Kind of went through some of the same calculations. And I realized, one, it's simplifying my finances by not having this thing around. I've got enough life insurance over here that, and with the term life policy that I have, that I don't need this additional paltry policy. And I don't need these premiums in my life anymore. 00:15:06 Speaker 2: And guess what? 00:15:06 Speaker 1: I can take the cash value at the same time and do something better with it. I think those are all kind of good ways for Lori to be thinking. She should run the numbers for herself. But I think when it comes down to it, the stakes are low and the chances to simplify and do something better with this money without impacting her taxes significantly. And while also not massively inflating her student loan payment, um, I think that probably is going to be the best move for her. 00:15:36 Speaker 2: That's right. Uh, I do want to also just quickly, there's sort of like a subtext here going on as well. And it made me think of a joke because you were talking a little more about the, uh, life insurance death benefit potentially, um, to survivors, like folks who might be depending. She mentions that they are adult children, but she kind of helps them out. Obviously, she's helping out with the life insurance. The sort of subtext question to address here is that, Lori, I want to make sure that you're having healthy conversations with your kids as well as to how much it is that you are supporting them, what that's going to look like moving forward. Sounds like your retirement savings are great. She's maxing out multiple accounts. That is awesome. But what kind of impact is this having on your ability to kind of live the life. And she, you know, it sounds like maybe it's just her. So it doesn't sound like she has to like talk with a partner and figure out what it is that they're looking for. So Lori, maybe this is just you thinking through, all right, what do I want the next five, 10 years to look like? I want you to look beyond sort of the needs, the immediate term needs, because I don't, Your ability to move towards some bigger goals, I think, is really important. And once you have identified those, having healthy conversations with your kids to, you know, not be like, hey, guys, I'm cutting you off, but just to share some of your own goals. And I think that they would naturally then understand, oh, okay, yeah. probably should hop off a family plan. You know, maybe it's time to get my own cell phone. I guess it's not that expensive. Like there's just certain things like that that are residual as kids sort of ease into adulthood as opposed to like this hard, you know, we don't live in a culture where there's like these hard mile, like what do you call them? Like rites of passage. And so because of that, childhood can kind of like extend off into your 20s and 30s even if you don't take intentional steps with this. And so that's something that I was kind of Maybe reading between the lines a little bit, Laurie. I don't know. Maybe not. Maybe everything's fine and dandy there, but I just wanted to have mentioned that as well. 00:17:36 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:17:36 Speaker 1: And there are ways as a parent that you can kind of help push them out of the nest in a healthy way, right? That also doesn't add. And you can even like teach them at the same time. 00:17:46 Speaker 2: Hey, guess what? Self-inservice. 00:17:47 Speaker 1: We're on the family plan. It's actually cheaper if we all go on our solo thing. Here, let me send you this link. Here's how you sign up. Make it happen this weekend. And that, yeah. So I'm not sure if that's what's going on either, Matt, but I heard a hint of that. So I'm glad you addressed it. We've got more questions to get to, including how do you ditch a financial advisor and what's the best way to sell a car as an individual these days? We'll get the questions about both those things and more right after this. 00:18:20 Speaker 2: All right, buddy. We are back. We've got more listener questions to get to. Let's see. Oh, in a minute here, we'll hear from a listener who reached out to an elected official and made some things happen as far as her money goes. Before we get to that one, though, let's hear from a listener who's about to go on a nice vacation. 00:18:38 Speaker 3: Hi, Matt and Joel. My name's Corey from Waseen, Wisconsin. I'm in money gear number seven, and my craft beer equivalent would be travel. Me and my girlfriend are looking forward to our first trip to Australia next month. I have two questions for each day. My first is regarding my Roth IRA. I set it up when I was 19 and just did it through the same financial advisor that my parents use. I'm now looking to transfer it over to Vanguard and handle it all myself. My question is, I know there can be certain fees, but is it just as easy as opening up the Vanguard account and telling them to switch the money over? Or is there anything else I need to know with doing that? Second, I am a firefighter, and in that I have a 457 retirement account as well. With that 457 is my belief that as soon as I retire, I can start withdrawing from that account. Luckily, I'm able to retire as early as 53. So my question for you would be if you see any benefit in maybe prioritizing that account more. given that that money will be available to me as soon as I retire, whereas with the Roth IRA, even though it is tax-free, I will not have access to that money other than the contributions until I'm 59 1⁄2. Just wondering what kind of thoughts you had on that. Thank you guys for all you do. Best friend out. 00:20:09 Speaker 1: He got clipped there. He got clipped there at the end, Matt. I didn't hear the very end. 00:20:13 Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know what happened there. He definitely was supposed to have said best friend out there. That's what he was leading into. 00:20:18 Speaker 1: What do you think about Corey going down under? 00:20:21 Speaker 2: Oh, to Australia? I'm pumped for him, man. I've never been there. You've been there. I know that's where you fell in love with flat lights and driving along the whatever highway. I remember you had a great ad for Australia when Australia came to us and they're like, would you guys be potentially interested in voicing an ad for the Australia Tourism Board or something like that. And you were just like, yes, please sign me up. I've wrestled a Tasmanian devil. Can I talk about that? And they were like, no, you can't. That's not allowed. So I punched a kangaroo in the face one time. Tasmanian devil is like one of the most mythic sort of Warner Brothers cartoons, right? Like you got the Tasmanian devil, the roadrunner, coyotes commonplace. But like, I don't know. There's a couple of those animals that they ran with that are out of left field. captured my imagination. This is kind of like an early retirement question, though. Yeah. 00:21:13 Speaker 1: I'm actually pumped about this one. There's two fronts here. Maybe let's start off talking about the advisor, because that's kind of where Corey started. And I just want to say, first off, I think it's a good thing, especially where it sounds like he's at in his investing journey to kind of take the reins. And it's pretty. 00:21:31 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. The Roth IRA part of the question. 00:21:33 Speaker 1: Yeah. And do you need someone else managing that on your behalf, paying them money? 00:21:39 Speaker 2: Probably not, right? No. 00:21:41 Speaker 1: There are, I think there are, probably when Corey gets closer to that retirement age, it might be the time that he has big money questions that he needs professional help with. But right in this wealth building phase of life, most people... are able to and should consider going without an advisor because of how advisors charge and how that eats into your overall returns and the amount of wealth you're going to have when you get to that time and place when you're ready to retire. So switching this over is pretty easy. You can open a Roth IRA at Vanguard and then you basically say, hey, transfer my old one to you. You enter in the information for your existing IRA and Vanguard initiates the transfer on your behalf. It should You know, take five, six, seven days for Vanguard to kind of fully populate your current Roth IRA into their system. And pretty easy. Like, it's not very hard. You can do it online at Vanguard.com, get the process started, and your IRA is back in your hands pretty quickly. 00:22:43 Speaker 2: That's right. I guess I missed this. Did he say it's with an actual advisor? Like, in my mind, I pictured, like, an old school brokerage maybe that was just not one of the good ones. Which it could be. Yeah. I thought he said advisor. You're probably right. I probably wasn't listening. Either way, though. 00:22:59 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:23:00 Speaker 1: We have an article, by the way, on our site about how to break up with a financial advisor, and it's worth looking at that. We'll maybe put that in the show notes. He mentioned fees. The only fee I can think of, Matt, that might be charged for this, it won't be from Vanguard. Vanguard's not going to charge them any money. But there could be some sort of outgoing transfer fee, which is for. 00:23:19 Speaker 2: Sure- Yeah, annoying. Or like an account closure fee, something like that. They might try to stick you on the way out, essentially, and they're just like, all right, here's our last chance to stick it to Corey. But otherwise, it is really easy. What you're describing is the trustee-to-trustee transfer. 00:23:36 Speaker 3: Right. 00:23:37 Speaker 2: Do that. Don't get the check where they cut it to you and then you redeposit it within a certain amount of time. You don't want to run that risk. 00:23:43 Speaker 1: If you don't do it within 60 days, you owe the tax man money and it ain't fun. Who was it we talked to? on the show not too long ago where that happened to them. They got, that was one of their biggest mistakes. I can't remember the guest off the top of my head. 00:23:57 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. 00:23:57 Speaker 1: But yeah, she was like, man, when I first was starting out, like this was one of the big mistakes I made. I got the check cut to me and I meant to do it and I didn't do it in enough time. And then boom, it's like a slap to the face come tax time. 00:24:09 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:24:09 Speaker 2: So Corey, you shouldn't have, that's going to be super easy. That's a very easy nuts and bolts sort of question that we're answering here. The next part I think is way more interesting because Yeah. And this is why I think it's kind of like an early retirement question here, because what he has outlined so clearly is that he is thinking very practically and pragmatically off into the future as to what it is his life is going to look like, right? Like he has tied this to a specific date. Like he has tied this to the calendar, which makes me think that it is more of an early retirement question. And what he said is true, by the way, he mentioned the 457. And you can, quote unquote, retire at any age, if you have a 457. And by retire, I mean, like if you have to leave, you have to like part service with that employer. And once you do that, and you're no longer there with that employer, in this case, Corey with the fire department, You have access to those funds without any sort of early withdrawal penalty, right? You're not getting hit with that 10%. Which normally with the workplace, traditional workplace retirement accounts, it's 59 and a half. And so if you say, I want to retire early and I want to tap my 401k. Or even sooner. 00:25:24 Speaker 3: Right. 00:25:24 Speaker 1: I mean, there are a couple of different semi-obscure rules that we could talk about in regards to those funds that you could use to get money from something like a 401k early without paying an additional penalty. 00:25:35 Speaker 4: Right. 00:25:36 Speaker 1: But for the most part, it's 59 and a half or you're paying an additional 10% penalty. Not the same though with Corey's retirement account. 00:25:43 Speaker 2: A 457, exactly. And that's also true. Let's say if you happen to sock away enough to retire, there's nothing magical about 53. He said that because he's running the numbers and he's just like, oh my gosh, he's projecting. This is why, Corey, I love the way you think. This is how I think. 00:25:59 Speaker 1: I'm also wondering if that's when his pension kicks in. And that's why he's thinking of 53 as the date, less just like projection and more like, hey, that's when I get the pension. 00:26:09 Speaker 2: He didn't mention the pension. I don't know. I think it has to do with him mapping out the numbers and just being like, I should have enough on hand at that point in time. So he's looking to early retire potentially. But essentially, he's looking to potentially use that 457 to bridge until full retirement age. And I would say if that is... like a number one goal of yours, I think it could be really smart to consider the 457. It depends on a number of things. It depends on, gosh, we were just talking about advisors and fees. It depends on what kind of investing options you have within that 457, because if they're pretty crummy, oh man, okay, there's a lot more number crunching that needs to take place to see if it's worth it to be able to get your hands on that money early on, as opposed to your ability to, sock money into your Roth IRA over with Vanguard where the fees are virtually non-existent. 00:27:07 Speaker 4: Right. 00:27:07 Speaker 2: Um, that's something to consider, but man, I think this, I just, I think this is smart thinking because he's identified something very specific as opposed to just saying, Oh, I need to save and I need to invest for some sort of far off nebulous retirement. Well, he's like thinking through, well, how do I actually arrive at that point? And I think that I just think that that's smart. And I like how, um, Yeah, just how specific that core he's getting. 00:27:33 Speaker 1: And just identifying the 457B specific loophole that he has access to and how that can help him achieve the retirement that he wants is just forward thinking. I would say that the fees are really important to consider. And if the fees near 457B are high, higher, they're going to be higher than Vanguard. I can almost guarantee it. But if they are significantly higher, then I think you might want to lean towards the Roth IRA. And that's for a couple reasons. I think one, you might not want or need the money at 53. And you might, one, you might not necessarily want to retire then. And two, you might have, let's say a pension that kicks in that provides most of your cost of living needs. And you can invest for, you can allow that money to stay, continue compounding for years or decades for later years of retirement. So that's just one thought. And my question too is, are you investing enough to fund a potential 40-year retirement? That's a really important question, which means if you're going to retire at 53 and start taking money out of your 457B, how much have you set aside and can you afford to start taking money out that early in your life? Two, it's important to know that you can take contributions early from your Roth IRA. So let's say you've been investing diligently, maxing out your Roth IRA for $ 30 years, Matt, at the current annual contribution limit, that is something like $ 225, 000 worth of contributions, your Roth IRA will be much, much larger than that, you'll probably have close to a million dollars in your Roth IRA total. But you can start to take those contributions out. And so let's say from the age of 53 to 60, you're using those contributions as a way to fund some of those early retirement years while continuing to let the rest of the money in that Roth IRA compound and grow. So that is another flex that the Roth IRA has, another reason that we love it. So yeah, the Roth IRA, that's not how people think of using it, but it's totally one way that you could use it until you're able to start tapping that Roth IRA all the way. And the other reason the Roth IRA can make sense here, Matt, too, is because I'm not, I don't know how much Corey's making as a household, but think about that too. There's kind of a tax incentive with where tax rates are right now to put money in the Roth IRA, to pay the tax man now, And then to never pay tax on that money again. 00:30:02 Speaker 2: That is true. I'll push back on your second point. I agree with your first point. Our goals are always changing, right? So we're not totally sure if you actually want to stick with that. So are you kind of tying yourself to the mast of this less efficient investing vehicle because of the fees that you're going to be paying in the 457 when you might not necessarily want that goal off in the future? I can get behind that. The only problem with a Roth is that if you truly are, it all comes down to if you really want to early retire. Because if you want to early retire, I mean, a quarter of a million dollars sounds like a lot, Joel. And it is. 00:30:36 Speaker 1: But that might only cover like three or four years worth of living for Corey. And that's not half a year living the way you live, you know? 00:30:44 Speaker 2: That may not. get them from 53 to full retirement age. Like that, that would be more of a bridge of like, and like that money can't like, it will grow, but you can't withdraw more than the contributions. 00:30:55 Speaker 4: Right. 00:30:55 Speaker 2: So even though you're leaving the rest of the growth untouched and it's continuing to compound, those contributions stay the same. And so even with inflation and everything else, you are limiting yourself to just a few years of living leading right up to that retirement age. And so if you're looking at 59 and a half, I'm like, okay, I would feel comfortable saying 55, 56. That sounds like contribution living territory at that point. 00:31:21 Speaker 1: And I will strongman against myself real quick along with you. And I will say that even if your income is reasonably low, your effective tax rate is fairly low. Well, it could be lower in the future. As you early retire. 00:31:35 Speaker 2: That's the third point. 00:31:36 Speaker 3: Right? 00:31:36 Speaker 2: We don't know where tax brackets are going to be in the future. And hey, get this, Corey's going to Australia like next week. I know you can probably get a deal, but like, Going to Australia is more expensive than like a picnic in the park, right? Like Corey's living life a little bit right now, which tells me he's making some money, right? He's living life. He's enjoying it a little bit. And if you foresee like, yeah, I'm probably, you know, when I'm 55, I'm probably not going to be doing as much world travel as I am when I'm young and robust. I'm a healthy young man. You know, you're getting out there having a lot of fun doing fun stuff. I don't know. A picnic in the park sounds like a very... Hey, I recently went on a picnic in the park, but it does feel like a 55, you know, age 55 kind of thing to do. So, yeah, to the tax point, it just depends on where you foresee your career going and what kind of work you might want to take on. 00:32:32 Speaker 1: So I guess when it comes down to it, that's a lot of food for thought. But I think this is kind of a choose-your-own-adventure and maybe, just maybe... Once you look at the fees, you're like, gosh, an S & P 500 fund has an expense ratio of 0.8 inside my 457B. My goodness, that's too much to stomach. I'm going to go the Roth IRA route. Or maybe you say, man, my 457B is with a low-cost provider. The costs are just as good as they are with Vanguard. I'm going to go all in on that. It's going to give me maximum flexibility. But without those details and without... perfect knowledge of the future, you're really kind of just doing your best. You're looking at the facts on the ground and you're projecting off into the future of what you're likely to need and how that's going to play out. But think through all of those things. Then I think you can come to the best solution for you. 00:33:18 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right. 00:33:19 Speaker 2: I was thinking, I thought I had something else, but I don't, Joel. So let's move on to our next question. This is from a listener who has a home buying question. 00:33:27 Speaker 5: Hi, Matt and Joel. Savannah here from Hatfield, PA. My husband and I are planning to move our family out of state this time next year. since we've outgrown our starter home and we're looking for a lifestyle change. We bought our current home in January 2020 and have gained a significant amount in equity. We recently cashed in a couple paper savings bonds that we were gifted in the 90s, which totaled $ 39, 000, and we plan to use that toward a down payment on a new house. As a side note, there was an episode recently about someone having trouble with cashing in paper savings bonds. It was a huge headache for us also that took almost four months. I finally called my local senator for help, and they inquired about the status of the bonds on my behalf, and then we received the money a couple days later. Anyway, now that we finally have the money, it is currently in our high-yield savings account earning 3.6% interest. So my question is, is it smart to keep it there since we plan to use it within a year, or are there better options that we should consider? We're in our early 30s and have four kids ages 6 and under, so money is tight right now. We have a fully funded emergency savings and we contribute toward our 401ks, IRAs, and NHSA account with each paycheck. We don't have any debt other than our mortgage. And after our monthly bills, we have very minimal money left to save for a down payment. So we want to maximize the seed money from the bonds as much as possible. 00:34:44 Speaker 4: I would love to hear your thoughts. 00:34:45 Speaker 5: I love the show and I've learned so much from you guys. Thank you. 00:34:48 Speaker 2: Okay, I was glad to see that Savannah didn't get cut off there. Because I was bragging earlier about how I go in there and I polish up the files and then I accidentally trim. 00:34:57 Speaker 1: Corey's outro. I was nervous for a second, but is, is there any time for people? I don't know that there's been any time in my financial life that felt more difficult or trying than when I was in kind of Savannah's face that multiple young kids that aren't yet school age. And you're kind of trying to do all the above. You're trying to build a career. You're like trying to still care for your spouse and your family, but it feels like there's even more just pressure on you because you're on the come up, you're building in every facet, what feels like every facet of life. And you're trying to make these smart moves to your future and trying to. 00:35:37 Speaker 2: Buy a home. 00:35:38 Speaker 1: Like you're trying to do these medium short-term goals as well as the long-term goals. And it just feels like you can't do it all. And the truth is you can't do it all. But most people can't do it all, right? Because most normal folks And, and so I just want to say, I identify with that Savannah. I remember that time in my life and it is, it is truly difficult, but the fact that you're aware of it and you're, you're trying really hard and you're asking good questions goes a long way. 00:36:05 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think we figured it out, Joel. Like the reason she doesn't have enough money is because she's had those dang kids, you know, like. 00:36:12 Speaker 1: It'll, it'll, it'll cost money, right? 00:36:14 Speaker 2: Four kids. Plus the fact that they're maxing or contributing at least to three different retirement accounts. Yeah. Um, I mean, it sounds like y'all are killing it, Savannah. But I mean, yeah, like as you're talking about that, Joel, like broadly speaking, I think, gosh, I rarely ever say this, but it might be worth considering. Like you said, this is where your bandwidth is at its lowest level because of all the things that are pulling on you. And I would even consider, I don't want to say this, but even consider potentially not contributing to some of these retirement accounts, right? 00:36:46 Speaker 1: Like if you needed to have a little more cash. I didn't know what you were going to say there. If you would consider giving one of your children up for adoption. Selling one to the kids. Seeing if, like, can they actually start working at age six, perhaps? They're in the PA. Not in this country, but in some other countries. 00:37:03 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:37:04 Speaker 2: No, obviously we're just kidding. But no, Savannah's looking at moving. Oh, yeah. She said one thing that I noticed, Joel. She said that they're planning to move out of state. And I'm glad she shared that very important piece of information because that would keep us from saying, Savannah, have you considered being a landlord? Because I'm pretty sure you've got this house that you call your starter home that's going to be the perfect size to be a rental. We don't have to go through all of that because you've got that locked in 30-year low mortgage and you want to keep that thing forever. Fact is, she does have four kids. Fact is, she is moving out of state. She's not interested in being a landlord. She wants to take that equity out and use that to... Which again... Piggies back with what I was just saying, like finding a way to bolster lifestyle and quality of life a little bit in what is most likely going to be one of the most taxing stages of you being a parent. 00:37:57 Speaker 1: And I get kind of where this question is coming from too, Matt, because the goal is, hey, how can I turn $ 39, 000 into a bigger sum of money so that I have more money to put down on this home so that from an ongoing monthly basis, this mortgage isn't as much of a thorn in my side as it otherwise could be. The more money I can put down means lower monthly payments, smaller obligation, less money going to the mortgage company in terms of the interest I'm paying. Totally understand that. Here's the problem, though. If you're working on a limited timeline, which it sounds like Savannah is, there really isn't much risk you can take on to try and increase this principal amount that won't keep you up at night. 00:38:41 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:38:42 Speaker 1: There are all sorts of things you could do, but they would look more like gambling than they would investing. And even investing, Matt, we talk about investing as a smart, long-term play to grow your money. But if you look at investing on a short-term timeline, it really is akin to gambling. 00:39:01 Speaker 2: It looks a lot more like gambling. 00:39:02 Speaker 4: It does. 00:39:02 Speaker 1: If you've got less than a year, it looks more like going to the roulette table in Vegas than it does investing. Actually making intelligent decisions because we know the stock market is this weighing mechanism over a long term, but over a short term, a small, short time span, big moves can be made by political pronouncements, by a random act of God event. that happens in some part of the country. There are all sorts of things on the short term that have a big impact on you. Let's say back in 2020, Matt, there was this thing called the coronavirus, right? And if you had said, great, I'm saving up for my down payment, and it was short-lived, but how much would that have freaked you out if you had your $ 39, 000 that was supposed to be there for your down payment And boom, it's cut down to $ 22, 000 within a matter of months. And you didn't know it was going to rebound quickly. Go back to 2008. There are all these situations in which you could find yourself completely hosed in terms of your ability to deploy that capital to buy the home that you want because you were thinking, I want to maximize returns, but you only had a limited. 00:40:13 Speaker 2: Amount of time. It's just unwise. 00:40:14 Speaker 4: Right. 00:40:15 Speaker 2: That's true. 00:40:16 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:40:16 Speaker 2: So the name of the game for you, Savannah, at this point in time is to not maximize your returns, but to maximize liquidity and maximize the accessibility that you have to that money. That being said, you know, so your high your high yield savings account is pretty solid. 3.6 is really good right now. 00:40:35 Speaker 5: It is. 00:40:36 Speaker 2: Yeah. And by the time this comes out, it's probably going to be even higher with the Fed increasing rates. But I was going to say it's something banks are usually a little bit slower to adjust when it comes to rates because I'm assuming this is how it works, right? They see the rate and they're like, oh, we should have a meeting. And then they schedule the meeting. Everyone fills out the doodle poll. They have the meeting. Then they decide, okay, let's increase it by this much and blah, blah, blah. It takes a while. It's up to the bank. Whereas if you look at- You think they're doing a doodle poll? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how it works. I doubt it. 00:41:10 Speaker 1: They hop on Slack and take care of business immediately, Jill. 00:41:12 Speaker 4: I don't know. 00:41:13 Speaker 2: As opposed to like the government money market accounts with Fidelity or Vanguard, they're looking at that basically like on a daily basis. And so it's constantly changing. And so- if you were looking for a little more upside while also maintaining maximum flexibility and liquidity, if you don't have a government money market account with one of our two favorite brokerages, that might be something worth considering. But even still, that's just, I mean, that's in the margins as opposed to what it is that I think you're talking about. And, you know, catch Joel on a Tuesday and he might tell you to go all in on Bitcoin and go ahead, catch the upswing guys. Like I say it all the time. We're a couple of years out from the next halving. Let's let's go. 00:41:56 Speaker 1: If you haven't been listening for long, I pump that almost every episode. 00:42:00 Speaker 2: Yeah. But ultimately Savannah, like I do not envy the position y'all are in because no, and this has nothing to do with the kids. Like man, savor these moments. Like I look back at, you know, like on the iPhone, it's like pops up the pictures and it's like this day four years ago. And Man, I tell you what, when the kids are around kindergarten age and pre-K age, they don't get any cuter than that. So like, oh my gosh, savor those years, absolutely. But I don't envy the financial position you're in because you said that you got this house in 2020. You built up a lot of equity. I'm assuming you've got a low locked-in rate mortgage. And you are going to be facing some financial headwinds for the next while with mortgage rates taking up. And man... You just need to be the person that's okay with fighting that fight. There are certain decisions that we make and we enter into them with our eyes wide open and we know that this is what's going to be best for us. Maybe you're moving closer to where there's family, right? And so you're like, yeah, guys, financially might be a little bit more difficult, but we're talking about the four kids. That's where the folks are. They're going to help with childcare. You just think about some of the decisions. I think about decisions we've made as a family where we're just like looking at the next 18 years of our life and are thinking, We need to make some changes so that it doesn't feel like a constant uphill battle. I'm afraid that that might be what you're entering into if you buy a house in the next year or two, given where rates are. I just want you to do that with your eyes wide open and just know the kind of impact that's going to have on you. Joel, I was just talking to a buddy who works for McKinsey over the weekend. And he's not, he's kind of miserable. He, this is like my one consultant management friend or whatever. And he, but he was just like, gosh, I'm really hating it. Or he didn't say hating it, but he was just frustrated. It's taken a lot out of him. But, you know, he's just like, but what he, and I didn't like prod him on or ask him or anything. He mentioned, he's like, you know, the thing though that takes the pressure off, the fact that we bought a home in 2013 and We've got a locked in low rate mortgage. And so their expenses are low. So if they end up asking him while he's on vacation and he's not answering his phone and he's not taking his laptop with him, he's like, this is the first time I'm not taking my laptop. He's like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And he cited that one expense as one of the things that helps sort of take the pressure off from a, are we going to be able to be okay standpoint. So just, it's a big expense. It's a big expense. 00:44:30 Speaker 1: I wondered when I heard Savannah's question was, are they moving to a cheaper cost of living area? 00:44:34 Speaker 2: I hope so. 00:44:35 Speaker 1: Because that's one of those kind of things that can really kind of change your financial trajectory too. If you move from, let's say, an expensive city in Pennsylvania, you're in the heart of Philly or Pittsburgh or something like that, and you're moving to a more rural Midwestern location, you might find that that $ 39, 000 goes a whole lot further. Plus, you're pulling out the equity from your home that you can do great stuff with, whether it's paying down the mortgage more quickly that you're about to take on. But there are all sorts of ways. And it's, I mean, Sounds like they are in the right headspace. I think more than anything, when it comes down to it, though, I just don't want her risking the biscuit in terms of this down payment. I want that to be kind of risk-free and in a very steady place, humdrum, boring place, the high-yield savings account. At least it's not with one of the big giant banks, Matt, that pays people nothing. 00:45:27 Speaker 2: That's true. All right. We've got more personal finance content to get to. Let's talk about talk about buying and selling cars. I feel like that's been a topic we've been on recently. We'll get to that more right after this quick break. 00:45:51 Speaker 1: Making faces at you, Matt. Okay, let's get to the Facebook question of the week. This one comes from Jennifer. She says, are there any other good sites besides Facebook Marketplace to sell a used car? Can I question the premise of the question? I don't know that Facebook Marketplace is a great place to sell a used car. 00:46:09 Speaker 2: It just depends. It does. You can get a decent, yeah. I'm picturing myself in the purchaser. She's talking about selling it. When's the last time you sold a car, Joel? I haven't sold a car in over a decade. 00:46:24 Speaker 1: No, I did because remember when I bought the 4Runner. 00:46:27 Speaker 2: Oh, that's right. You got rid of the old Acura. 00:46:30 Speaker 1: I sold my super duper old Acura and I did sell it on Facebook Marketplace. 00:46:35 Speaker 4: Hey! 00:46:35 Speaker 1: And it was a frustrating experience. It was not fun fielding all sorts of idiot comments and responses and no-shows. And so I guess in some ways, it feels like there are few other options, especially when you're selling something that's like really old and not worth very much money like my car was. I think I sold it for like 2,500 bucks. That's, I mean, it was not a lovely car. But the nicer your car is, the more willing I would be to spend a little bit of money to list it on a more premium site. So that in auto trader is the best one. But if you've got a cheap car, I think you just have to go through the Facebook marketplace rigmarole. But if you have a nicer car and you want to find buyers who are actually responsive, I think auto trader is probably the best place to land. 00:47:30 Speaker 2: I think it just depends, too. I mean, either way, it depends on the amount of work you're willing to put into it, right? Because you're going to make the most money if you DIY it, if you take the good photos, if you list it. You have to be willing to take on... Like you said, Joel, it's a hassle, right? You need to think of it as almost like a side gig. 00:47:51 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:47:51 Speaker 2: And I would say... What was her name? Jennifer. The number one... number one piece of advice I would give her is it's not the site. It's not the listing. It's not the type of people who are on those sites or who are looking at those listings. It's your willingness to put up with the hassle. And so that is going to make or break your ability to get an extra 10 to 20% from selling that vehicle yourself. And so to that end, how do you ensure that you're willing to do that? I would only list that vehicle as, when you know you've got the patience and a little bit of extra time, a little bit of margin to be able to list that thing yourself, to be able to stay on top of responses. Because you could do... My neighbor, he had a pretty nice 4Runner, like a newer 4Runner. Sold that thing. And he got multiple quotes from places nearby. And Carvana was actually the best quote that he received. And so they're like, oh my gosh. It's the best quote. And on top of that, they're making it super easy. He didn't want to list it and do the DIY thing. So, you know, as far as that goes, they came and they came and got it. You know, he's just like, this is awesome. He didn't want to go through all the hassle of listing it. But if you're looking for top dollar, man, ensuring that you have the margin to be able to do this yourself, that's how you're going to get the top dollar. 00:49:12 Speaker 1: And I got, I sold my Nissan Leaf back in the day to Carvana and they made that an easy experience and they paid me somewhere close to what I thought I could get. full market value based on selling it to another seller. So I do think Carvana, CarMax, it's worth getting the quotes from both of those places just to see what they'll pay you. Because if that's the easy button and you're not really giving up much money, but you're trading a lot of hassle, I think it's probably worth it. We just see more and more people, Matt, are trading their cars in now because it's easy and simple, not realizing how much money they're often giving up and what they could get. And that's where Kelley Blue Book is a great site to turn to. Hey, do the research. Find out how much your car is worth before you do something like that. You want to know how much you're giving up and whether the hassle avoidance is worth the tradeoff, right, of less money. 00:50:02 Speaker 2: It might be, it might not. 00:50:03 Speaker 1: I think it's a personal decision that everyone has to make. But I do think Carvana and CarMax have come in, Carvana in particular, in a way to try to get rid of that hassle for people and make it easier for people to say, good, easy button. 00:50:18 Speaker 2: Let me sign that. 00:50:19 Speaker 1: Let me go do it. I'm not giving up as much as I would if I were to go straight up to a dealership. But at the same time, they're going to come pick it up and make it easy for me. I think Carvana is worth looking into. I will say I miss the days– I miss the days where you could, there was a lot more buying and selling between individuals. And now it's become third-partyized. And people used to park them. You knew the parking lots around town where people would park their stuff every, you know, or Craigslist. Man, Craigslist, nobody uses Craigslist anymore. 00:50:50 Speaker 2: It's super sad. The last car I sold, yeah, I was trying to think. And it was our VW. You remember our Volkswagen Passat wagon? 00:50:57 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:50:58 Speaker 1: That awesome, beautiful, old gray wagon. 00:51:01 Speaker 2: Gosh, I loved it. I love that thing. It smelled like crayons. All Volkswagens smell like crayons. I don't know what it is about Volkswagens. I know I'm not the only one who thinks that. 00:51:11 Speaker 1: I don't know if I remember. I don't remember that. But, dude, now I've got to sit in one and smell it. 00:51:17 Speaker 2: If you agree with me, email us at howtomoneypod at gmail.com. Volkswagens do, in fact, smell like crayons. But, gosh, I missed that thing. Anyway, here, let's do this. We've got one more. We've got an email. It's a long email. So let's make it a short, a quick answer. I'll read it. This is from A. Hi, Matt and Joel. I'm reaching out on behalf of my parents who are in their late 70s. My dad is still working in a career he loves, but is hoping to retire soon. He is the one who wisely told me about investing in the S & P 500 many years ago. He's managed their investments himself up to now. He's talking about getting a financial advisor to help him. I've pointed him in the direction of WealthRamp. 00:51:55 Speaker 4: Yes. 00:51:55 Speaker 5: Yes. 00:51:56 Speaker 2: And tried to steer him towards fee-only advisors. However, he is leaning towards hiring an advisor that takes 1% yearly because he is concerned that if something happens to him, my mom won't know what to do, and he wants someone who can oversee everything for her. Mom's got zero interest in money management. Dad also seems to be sold on the idea that this kind of advisor can help him save as much or more on taxes than the 1% fee with tax loss harvesting. and other things that he doesn't know how to do. Is there truth to this? And if so, how can I help him navigate finding the right person? They've worked so hard all of their lives and just worry about someone taking advantage of them. Thanks for your help, A. What do you think, Joel? 00:52:39 Speaker 1: I mean, I love that A is looking out for her parents. I'd be worried about them too. I wouldn't want anyone to take advantage of my parents. You want them to be able to use the money they've saved and invested for many, many years. and enjoy their retirement years. And you don't want any undue stress on your mom or dad. And I do think WealthRamp is still the best choice for your parents. That's partly because of the fee structure and the fiduciary responsibility, but it's also because of the vetting that WealthRamp does. And I just think you want your parents to do business with an advisor who, they run the gamut, right? They run the gamut from people who have harmed their clients in the past, to people who just do not have any obligation to do what's in your parents' best interest, to people who have that obligation, to people who have that obligation and then also have an incredible reputation in the industry. And even to the point where they help specific kinds of clients. When you look at WealthRamp's site, Matt, and you can go to, if you're interested in looking at these advisors, howtomoney.com slash advisor is the place to go. But they even list people who have different specializations in WealthRamp. And one of those is widows or widowers. And so if that is your dad's keen concern, go to WealthRamp, click on that, and you find the advisors who specialize in helping people who are in that kind of scenario. And that's the kind of advisor I would want to be doing business with. I would be less concerned about, I'd be concerned about the fees and how those fees get levied, but I would be more concerned about How good is this advisor? How long have they been doing it? Who do they help? 00:54:23 Speaker 2: And are they going to be. 00:54:24 Speaker 1: Able to help me? 00:54:25 Speaker 2: That's right. I do want to clear the air a little bit, too, because I was talking about seem to be talking about the 1% yearly. So what you're talking about there is assets under management. And you might hear that and think, oh, man, they're totally trying to take advantage of my parents. The most important thing is that they're a fiduciary fee only advisor. WealthRamp has advisors whose fee model is assets under management. There's nothing inherently bad about that. They also have advisors that operate on a flat fee or an annual retainer sort of model. That's also another approach. Both of those are fee only, right? Because it's fee, whether it's assets under management fee or whether it's just a flat annual fee. What you don't want and what you want to completely avoid is and karate chop, that's what I'm doing here on the video, is... Oh, I lost my train of thought once Joel started karate chopping. Commissions. You don't want any sort of commission-based advisor because then all of a sudden your interests are not aligned. You want a fiduciary fee-only advisor. As far as the tax loss harvesting, it sounds like. 00:55:31 Speaker 1: You don't want them selling your parents' products that they don't need because it makes them money. 00:55:35 Speaker 2: Exactly. And as far as the tax loss harvesting, I think that that might just be... like an excuse perhaps for your parents to go with something that they don't necessarily need? Do they even have money in a taxable brokerage? Do they have all of their money in retirement accounts? If so, they're going to realize zero benefit from something like tax loss harvesting. But again, you can figure all of this out by meeting with somebody who is just really good at their job and who takes care of people. That's the kind of advisors that you can find over at WealthRamp. 00:56:04 Speaker 1: I remember the first time I heard about tax loss harvesting and I was like, oh, have I never heard about this before? This is the coolest thing ever. And it's not uncool or stupid or not worth mentioning. It's just that when you look into it, yeah, we're not talking about retirement accounts. We're talking about taxable brokerage accounts. Also, well, how much money can you tax loss harvest in a given year, Matt? You know, 3,000 bucks, right? How big are the stakes here? In tax loss harvesting, they're actually smaller than most people give it credit for. So it's kind of like when people talk about the mortgage interest deduction, and it's like, but did you even take it or did you take the standard deduction? And I think a lot of people overblow some of these things that are actually pretty minimal when it comes to finances. And so the most important thing is a trustworthy advisor, like we said, fee-only fiduciary who works with people like your parents. That's the most important thing, not whether they're going to... And any advisor you do business with, whether it's some... They're going to be able to help you with tax loss harvesting. 00:57:06 Speaker 2: I think. 00:57:07 Speaker 1: I love that your dad taught you about investing. And I love that your dad is trying to be thoughtful about his own investments. I think he just needs a little bit of a guiding hand here to find the right person to help given the situation they find themselves in. And by the way, last thing, I want her mom involved in this too, Matt. I know usually it's one spouse takes over most of the finances is probably the truth for how her dad handled things. And her mom was able to just kind of sit back and let her dad take control. And she doesn't have to become like 100% involved. But I do think she needs to become 10% to 15% involved because it's her money too. And a financial advisor. 00:57:45 Speaker 2: Can help. 00:57:46 Speaker 1: But when it comes down to it, it's your money, it's your future. It's her money, it's her future. And she needs to participate in some of these combos. 00:57:52 Speaker 2: Totally agree. 00:57:53 Speaker 4: All right. 00:57:54 Speaker 2: That it? That's it. 00:57:56 Speaker 4: All right. 00:57:56 Speaker 2: I'm not going to talk about my beer because you didn't get to enjoy it as well. Dude, we have to occasionally have a craft beer on the show. We can't just be sitting here sipping our beer. sipping our cold brew and me drinking my latte and you know what the. 00:58:10 Speaker 1: Karate chop made me think of by the way that scene in is it toy story where he's hitting the button on butt on the back of buzz light years uh thing he's just karate chop karate yeah yeah. 00:58:22 Speaker 2: That's what i was trying to do maybe that's what i saw out of you when i saw you do it and i was just like in my mind just went elsewhere and i couldn't think of the word commissions That's what I was looking for. Well, that's going to be it. Smash that like and subscribe button over on YouTube if you haven't checked us out over on YouTube. But that's going to be it for this episode, buddy. So until next time. 00:58:41 Speaker 1: Best friends out. 00:58:42 Speaker 2: Best friends out.