1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Uh that's our super producer, mister Max Williams. 4 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 2: Manja, there he is, and you're Noel Brown and I'm 5 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: big bulling' and ooh, we're doing part two of a 6 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: two part series. 7 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: And I think we got something cooking right. 8 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 3: On a slow simmer. You want those little bubbles, the 9 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 3: tiny bubbles is what you want, what we're looking for. 10 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: And you may think, hey, guys, why did you spend 11 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: so much time exploring legends about legends about one of 12 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: the world's most common staple foods. You might say, that's 13 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: prepastoris Legends of the Hidden Tai Shout out to the 14 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: thumbs down from Maxilla and. 15 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 3: The bad joke. Drum dot wave that wave. Let's jump 16 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 3: right in, guys, let's get lost in the sauce. 17 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: The legend you would hear about Marco Polo for a 18 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: very long time is that when he in his travels 19 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: in the East, when he made it to China, he 20 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: discovered pasta and he brought it back to Italy and 21 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: from there. The modern understanding of pasta, arose. 22 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 3: I'm gonna throw my money behind this one man, just 23 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: based on everything we know about Asian culture and like 24 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 3: just how far ahead they were on so many things. 25 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 3: This rings true to me. 26 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: It's weird, right, because he definitely went that way, he 27 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: definitely returned. It seems he also when he was there, 28 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: he had to eat right shout out to Checkers. 29 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 3: In Monster. 30 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: There's a There is a lot of historical disagreement about this. 31 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: We believe now that the myth probably arose from a 32 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: misinterpretation of a famous passage in Polo's travels, the Travels 33 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: of Marco Polo. 34 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 3: And now when I said I was throwing my money 35 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 3: behind this myth, and not necessarily the Marco Polo side 36 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 3: of it, just that it was probably done first in China. 37 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel you there because also it goes back 38 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: to how pedantic we want to be about the definition 39 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,399 Speaker 1: of pasta, right only Durham Wheat, you know what I mean. 40 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 3: Oh, I would not care to get that pedantic. I 41 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 3: really do stand by the whole building block of cuisine 42 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 3: kind of argument that it probably was discovered in parallel 43 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 3: from time immemorial, like you mentioned. But I just have 44 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 3: a sense that the modern kind of noodle, the way 45 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 3: it was stretched and sort of refined, probably originated in Asia. 46 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: I'm also on board with this. Not an expert, but 47 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: I got your back on this one. We know that 48 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: in Travels Polo mentions a tree and from this tree 49 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: something like pasta is created. It saghetti tree. It's the 50 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: spaghetti tree. Of course, it was probably the Sego Paul. 51 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe breadfruit, something that produces a starchy food product 52 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: that resembles but depending on how pedantic you want to get, 53 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: is not pasta. And it looks like the story started 54 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: the Great Game of Telephone started somewhere in the nineteen 55 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: twenties or thirties. We get this from Jane Grigson, an 56 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: English food writer who in her research found an advertisement 57 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: for a Canadian spaghetti company that said something like, hey, 58 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: Marco Polo brought this all the way from China. And 59 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: we also want to give a big, big shout out 60 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: to Italics Magazine. 61 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 3: Which I greatly discovered. 62 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, brief History Apasta by Timothy Santo Nostasso. 63 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely fabulous piece and a fabulous resource overall Italics Magazine. 64 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 3: I don't know, Ben, this makes sense to me too, 65 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 3: because I mean, we certainly have seen lots of things 66 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 3: that have just crept their way into the zeitgeys because 67 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 3: of successful advertising campaigns. Let's look at you know, Santa 68 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 3: Claus and Coca Cola for example, Polar bears. Coca Cola 69 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 3: invented them, too, Lucky Charms, you know, invented Lepard. Okay, 70 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 3: I'm half to the Coca Cola and Santa Claus part 71 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 3: is true. And we certainly know this, yes, one hundred percent. 72 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: And we certainly know that average tizing is very popular 73 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 3: because it's just by way of like repetition, it can 74 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 3: kind of pound its way into the cultural kind of unconscious. 75 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: And we know we know that part of this, right, 76 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: shout out to Emily Dickinson, tell the truth, but tell 77 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: it slant. Good advertising is based on an interpretation of 78 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: the truth. And this is where we this is where 79 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: we see the grain hit the mill. Civilizations in China 80 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: did historically make ground food products similar to barley flour, 81 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: and what Marco Polo mentions purportedly is definitely used to 82 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: make several things that would loosely resemble pasta. One he 83 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: describes as again lagana. And if you want to be 84 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: super pretentious, next time you go to an Italian restaurant, 85 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: why not order the lagana And if someone says, do 86 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: you mean lasagna, then put your nose up. 87 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 3: I said what I said, sir, a good day. 88 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: Also, we'll have the cheese steaks. 89 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 3: By the way. You know, I just was curious because 90 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 3: I don't know. Sometimes I just say things off him 91 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 3: because it seems like it makes sense that I just 92 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: want to double check myself before I double wreck myself. 93 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 3: But the history of wheat cultivation dates back to ten 94 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 3: thousand BC. I mean, so this, you know, when I 95 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 3: said that this was something that was just around, it's true, 96 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 3: you know. And of course, like many things developed in 97 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 3: the Fertile Crescent, the Levant region, you know, area of 98 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 3: the Middle East from Jordan to Palestine and Lebanon to Syria, Turkey, 99 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 3: Iraq and Iran, so you know, again that kind of 100 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 3: basin of civilization kind of stuff. This really is a 101 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 3: staple crop that has been around for a very very 102 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 3: very long time. 103 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And there's another you know, little sprinkling of 104 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: couscous here. Marco Polo's original text no longer exist, so 105 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: we're reading from sources that read about it, and this 106 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: gives us this vast intercultural, intergenerational game of telephone. We do, however, 107 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: know that pasta was getting pretty popular in the thirteenth century, 108 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: even if they weren't using the word yet. So while 109 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: Marco Polo may not have been lying about what he 110 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: saw in this specific instance, it is incredibly unlikely that 111 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: he was the first dude ever to rock back to 112 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: Italy and go you guys, you guys, Pizon, you will 113 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: not believe what I've found. 114 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 3: And back to the Fertile Crescent, which I just mentioned 115 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: a second ago. It is thought that that is how 116 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 3: newly dishes reached Europe. There are theories including that nomadic 117 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 3: Arabic tribes and trainers were responsible for bringing early forms 118 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 3: of pasta west. 119 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: M h yeah, one hundred percent, you can. I mean. Also, 120 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: so the Silk Road a source of endless fascination. Another 121 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: example of this would be maybe I was recently looking 122 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: at maps of where Roman currency had been discovered across 123 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: the planet, and that currency extends far past what we 124 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: consider the historical borders of the Roman Empire. So these 125 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: trade networks are moving every single good idea, And of 126 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: course this is far before the concept of the patent system. 127 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: I love that you're pointing out the levat. I love 128 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: that we're pointing out this idea of cultural transmission, this 129 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: concept that somewhere in Asia people were the first people 130 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: to create noodles thousands of years ago. It argues that 131 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: this practice, this process naturally traveled westward. Like you're saying, 132 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: we don't know how it reached Europe, we do know 133 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: that once it hit them meta terranean, they used what 134 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: they had available, right, because they didn't maybe have the 135 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: same ingredients, the same base components, but they had something 136 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: like it, you know what I mean, just like the 137 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: the prison chef may say you want filet mignon. 138 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 3: How about a right exactly? And then of course we 139 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 3: start seeing little changes that refine it and lengthen its 140 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 3: shelf life. For example, in the Mediterranean, the process of 141 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 3: making pasta was refined by adding Durham wheat because it 142 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 3: had high gluten content and increased the shelf life of 143 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 3: the product. When Durham wheat pasta gets dried, it can 144 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 3: last indefinitely, which makes it super super important for that 145 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 3: kind of staple use and sort of like hoarding you 146 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 3: know the stuff I mean, I've I don't know I've 147 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 3: never really looked, but is there an expiration date on pasta? 148 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 3: It's probably more like a best buy date. But I've 149 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 3: never had a pasta that I, you know, boiled, that 150 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 3: felt like it had gone bad or something like. 151 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to make us seem like low class folks, 152 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: but I just sort of practiced the idea that dry 153 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: pasta does. 154 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 3: Not expire to Okay, just making sure we're on the 155 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: same pitch, thank you, bads, Like if we if. 156 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: We if we're on an expedition, you know, out to 157 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: Antarctica or something, and we find preserved pasta from the 158 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds. I'm not going to cook all it 159 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: of it, all of it at once, but I'm gonna 160 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: do like a test. 161 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 3: Noodle for sure. There's the wall. See what there it is. 162 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 3: I gotta throw to you though, because you have kind 163 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 3: of like a fun little pet theory amidst all of 164 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 3: these other fun little pet theories from historians. 165 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, sir, I want uh Noel Max, I want 166 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: to see what you guys think about this. Why did 167 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: the Marco Polo story stick around? Here's what I would posit. 168 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: It's because features an historical celebrity, an already famous historical figure. 169 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 3: Like legendary already right, he's right, So he's associated with 170 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 3: so many discoveries. 171 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: Humans like a face on a story. That's the thing. 172 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: It's much more memorable, much more communicable than just abstract 173 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 1: statistics or maps of change over time. Here's the idea, 174 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: what if centuries from now, you guys, someone told us 175 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: in someone told school children Montezuma invented potato chips, or 176 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: that Ben Franklin discovered Viennetta, or that Ryl Crow was 177 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: the inventor of Dippin' dots. 178 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 3: Are that Ben Bolan is the original inventor of ninja 179 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 3: turtle shaped pasta. 180 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: Or that Noel Brown was the first guy to say 181 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: I'd like to call it a case idea. 182 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 3: That's true though it was me, thank you for finally 183 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 3: giving me my. 184 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: Do I knew it was Eufrido. 185 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 3: I don't know what then just kiss me on my mouth. 186 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: So in twenty twenty four, we can easily and safely 187 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: laugh at these examples, we can say they're not too whole. 188 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: But in thirty twenty four it might be a lot 189 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: harder to figure out who made what went. Yeah, another 190 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 1: example would be Archimedes screw. He probably made something like that, 191 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: but he was definitely not the first dude to do it. 192 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 3: That's exactly it Wasn't that a way of moving water around? Yes, yeah, 193 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 3: and elevation like moving it to higher levels. Yeah. 194 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: And this is where we go to the original idea 195 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: that you were walking through in the beginning here, nol. 196 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: While the Polo story seems to be most likely an 197 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: historical hiccup, the idea of international pasta travel is probably 198 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: correct because Italy is along the Mediterranean that has always 199 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: been a hot spot for trade, even back in the 200 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: beginning of what we would call, you know, landed civilization. 201 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: Italy's not too far from the Middle East. 202 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 3: And now we bring you our regular segment, All Eyes 203 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 3: on Italy, Maxca. We get some Mediterranean kind of sound cute. 204 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 3: Oh man, look, I feel that the breeze is blowing 205 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 3: them on a vespa, you know, with my best girl 206 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 3: right in through the countryside, believe it. And then she 207 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 3: gets in my car and it blows up. And then okay, 208 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 3: because it causes me to spy, I'm sorry, I was 209 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 3: with you thing. I'm back to the Godfather illusion. Man, 210 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 3: what a scene, What a great film series of films. 211 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 3: Didn't you say you accidentally watched the Godfather movies out 212 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 3: of order? 213 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: Yes? 214 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 3: Once? Yeah, yeah, that might be about a clever entity. Yeah, 215 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 3: especially because the second one. I don't think the first 216 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 3: one has flashbacks, but the second one is like half 217 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 3: and half. So I could see how it could be 218 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 3: confusing because you're like, like, who is this Robert de 219 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 3: Niro character? 220 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: We know, you know, Oh my gosh, she's the same dude, 221 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: the same. 222 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 3: So back to all eyes audience. Food historians have estimated 223 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 3: that the the dish pasta I mean, it's not really 224 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 3: more of an ingredient than a dish, I suppose really 225 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 3: started to take hold in Italy because of extensive Mediterranean 226 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 3: trading during the Middle Ages. 227 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we mentioned the thirteenth century earlier, right, references 228 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: to pasta dishes such as macaroni, ravioli, nocci vermicelli. These 229 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: starting yoki, uh, these start to crop up with increasing 230 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: frequency across the Italian peninsula. And in the fourteenth century 231 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: we got to go to Bicaccio, the author of De Cameron, 232 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: which is sort of the predecessor to Canterbury Tales. It 233 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: inspired Chaucer kind of like Operation Ivy inspired Rancid. 234 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 3: I suppose that's true. Yeah, they're walking down there? No, no, no, 235 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 3: it's taking a nice stroll. Was the source material or 236 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 3: the original one that inspired Truscer? Equally as body. 237 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you what, man, And I hate to 238 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: say it. I'm probably not supposed to say this, but 239 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: I didn't love it. 240 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 4: No. 241 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: I preferred Canterbury tales. I like the I like the 242 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: body parts of the Canterbury tales. 243 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 3: I know, mean too, what's the one with the with 244 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 3: the guy crawling through the window and the kids? Yeah, 245 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 3: but the butthole situation, it's anyway, the details that looked 246 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 3: at me. There's that's where the term cook comes from. 247 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 3: A cuckolds, right, isn't that kind of originated? That? 248 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: Correct? 249 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 3: I believe so. I believe that one particular Canterbury tale 250 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 3: involves someone kind of watching his wife cheating on him. 251 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 3: It's sort of a voyeuristic story. But then he puts 252 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: his butt through the window and ends up the dude 253 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 3: gives it a kiss. I'm sorry, I'm getting the details wrong, 254 00:15:58,320 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 3: but I remember that. 255 00:15:59,720 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: Lie. 256 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I do believe cuckold. It was originated in by 257 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 3: Chaucer and the Canterbury test. 258 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: I just remember the moment where in the tail the 259 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: gui ling's in through the window and he realizes no 260 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: woman has a beard. 261 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 3: H that was like the. 262 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: Banger mic drop. Anyway, So, uh, de Cameron going back 263 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: before Canterbury Tales, it has in there this story of 264 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: pasta chefs who are rolling steaming hot macaroni and ravioli 265 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: down a mountain of parmage on. 266 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 3: Cheese, like on top of old smoky or on top 267 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 3: of old meatball. And I lost my poor meatball because 268 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 3: it rolled down the hill and around down the hall 269 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 3: or whatever. This is very modern sounding. That's very interesting. 270 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: They're rolling it down to feed sinners, people have committed 271 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: the sin of gluttony, and so they're all at the 272 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: bottom of the cheese mountain. 273 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 3: It's a weird thing. 274 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: It's a weird thing. 275 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 3: Also, I'll hang out in that circle of hell. 276 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: I'll do a week I'll do a long weekend. We 277 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: also want to shout out PBS dot org a great 278 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: article by Tory Avy uncover the history of Pasta, which 279 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: mentions our De Cameron reference. There throughout the Middle Ages 280 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: until the start of the sixteenth century. The thing is 281 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: ol Max. We talked about this all the time. Pasta 282 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: dishes back then were pretty different from the pasta you 283 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: would expect today. Chef Boyard, this. 284 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 3: Is not no. But it was by the late seventeenth 285 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 3: century that Naples really started to kind of lead the 286 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 3: charge and what we think of as modern kind of 287 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 3: pasta dishes. They were so fond of the stuff they 288 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 3: even got the nickname mangia foglia in the fifteen hundreds. 289 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 3: Then in the seventeen hundreds they started to be called 290 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 3: mangia macaroni or macaroni eaters, which sounds like you could 291 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 3: probably use as a bit of an epithet today, a 292 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 3: potentially problematic use could be used to malign a person 293 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 3: of Italian descent, you know, just say. 294 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's the thing. We see this transformation 295 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: in these street names. We see this transformation from calling 296 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: people basically non consensual vegetarians mangia foglia you can only 297 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: afford to eat leaves. And then by the. 298 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 3: Seventeen I didn't even say that, it means leaf eater, 299 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 3: mangia foglia. Yeah yeah. 300 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: And then and then you later, because of the explosion 301 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: of pasta popularity, you become called macaroni eaters, and I 302 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: love I love the idea if anybody resurrects in some 303 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: way the Godfather franchise, No, they have to take your 304 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: idea of using that as a very specific epithet. 305 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 3: I think it could be fun and probably somewhere in 306 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 3: the Sopranos. By the way, sorry, just really quickly. I 307 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 3: just saw yesterday a trailer on HBO for a I 308 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 3: think a two part Sopranos documentary that's coming out, and 309 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 3: I remember the filmmaker, but it was somebody with some 310 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 3: serious documentary bona fides, and it's got David Chase, you know, 311 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 3: Michael Imperiali, all the gang is back to talk about 312 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 3: the origins and the production of the Soprano, which is 313 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 3: so storied, and I'm very excited to watch that. 314 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: Fingers crossed for her Zog. 315 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 3: You think Herzog away in Oh that it may be, 316 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, Herzog. He is a fabulous documentarian 317 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 3: and as well as a narrative filmmaker. I love me 318 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 3: some Herzog. So what what was it, Ben that made 319 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 3: pasta macaroni so incredibly popular in Italy? Yeah, there had 320 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 3: to have been some sort of like sea change moment 321 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 3: because it absolutely exploded. 322 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is this is kind of a downer. Yeah, 323 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 4: and Max if we could get some like sincere people 324 00:19:52,440 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 4: struggling to survive music, maybe not for the whole not 325 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 4: for the whole thing, just a little that's perfect right there. 326 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 4: The first possibility is pretty pretty unfortunate. Most of the 327 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 4: common folk in this area at this time were experiencing 328 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 4: a decline in their standard of living. Things were getting 329 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 4: more expensive, things were becoming less available, right, and this 330 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 4: limited their access to foods like meat. On the other side, 331 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,959 Speaker 4: as this inequality increases, the well to do upper crust 332 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 4: of the day, the ruling landowners, they start selling wheat 333 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 4: pretty cheaply because they're also trying to negotiate through this economy. 334 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 4: And if you are to anthropomorphized pasta, this is a 335 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 4: win win for you because now people are going to 336 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 4: you because you're the thing they can afford to mess with. 337 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, it kind of reminds me of like, you know, 338 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 3: how the potato was such a staple food in Ireland 339 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 3: because it was just it was very hard. You know, 340 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 3: it would last, it wouldn't go bad. You know, A 341 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 3: potato much like a carrot, maybe rot a little quicker 342 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 3: than a kara, but you can store it if you 343 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 3: store it in kind of a dark, dry place, and 344 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 3: it was very easy to harvest and cultivate. So obviously, 345 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 3: when the potato famine hit between eighteen forty five and 346 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 3: fifty two, and so many Irish people were depending on 347 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 3: that crop, it was absolutely disastrous. Don't believe there was 348 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 3: a pasta famine in Italy, but it is a similar 349 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 3: case where it was just something that was easy to cultivate, 350 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 3: easy to make, and it stored well. 351 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. It also had religion on its side, 352 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: because folks back then, in this period of history, in 353 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: this part of the world, they had a lot of 354 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: days where it was spiritually forbidden to eat meat. But 355 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: this means that pasta is a great filling replacement that 356 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: won't make God angry at you or the church at least. 357 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, gotta stay on their good side, right, especially 358 00:21:58,320 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 3: that right totally. 359 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: Then, from the seventeenth century moving forward, we see another 360 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: reason for the popularity of pasta. It's industry, industrial pasta 361 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: production factories and machines. This is so fascinating, right, This 362 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: is the kind of thing that is a dangerous rabbit 363 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: hole there was one called the Torchio that revolutionized pasta 364 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: manufacturing because it was like a mechanical press that could 365 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: make noodles. You're saving so much time. 366 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 3: If anyone wants a really satisfying YouTube, watch just type 367 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 3: in like pasta manufacturing and you can see when it's 368 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: extruders I think is what they're called, where it pushes 369 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 3: the dough through these metal things and then this really 370 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 3: like quick little knife thing automatically comes and slices them off, 371 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 3: and then it shoots them out again. I would have 372 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 3: to imagine that pasta up to the point of this 373 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 3: industrialization had to be hand pulled, and it was probably 374 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 3: more long type or more rudimentary, small bite sized ones. 375 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 3: You know that it could be fashioned by hand. But 376 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 3: this is when we start to get into the like 377 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 3: explosion of various pasta shapes that could really only be 378 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 3: created using these extruders. 379 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. And this goes to this goes 380 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: to what we were talking about earlier in our patent 381 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: episode recently, which is the idea of I think, no, 382 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: you had the question can you patent a pasta? You 383 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: patent at least as we'll find you patent the pasta machines, 384 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: those extruders and things like that that you were mentioning. 385 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 3: I guess it would be pretty hard to patent a 386 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 3: pasta shape because you know, shapes do kind of exist 387 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 3: in nature. 388 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: I would have you a pasta tycoons that would be cool. 389 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 4: Man. 390 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 3: No, it's yeah, you're right. Like it was the same 391 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 3: as like the Industrial Revolution, people patenting certain types of 392 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 3: machines that would produce garments or what have you see again, 393 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 3: shout out to our recent episode on patents. In seventeen forty, 394 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 3: a license for the very first pasta factory was issued 395 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 3: in Venice, and during the eighteen hundreds, watermills and stone 396 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 3: grinders were used to separate semolina from the brand, thereby 397 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 3: provoking an expansion of the pasta market that actually happened 398 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 3: in parallel with the aforementioned Industrial Revolution. 399 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and sometimes you'll find people calling this period the 400 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: industry of pasta. In eighteen fifty nine, a guy named 401 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: Joseph Topitz founds the first pasta factory that uses steam machines. 402 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: He doesn't found it in Italy, he founds it in Hungary. 403 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: This is one of the first factories of its kind 404 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: in Central Europe and then in eighteen sixty seven you 405 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: see more pasta manufacturers starting to sprout up. Like you 406 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier in the nineteen hundreds, artificial drying and Prusian 407 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: innovations make it so much easier not just to craft 408 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: specific shapes of pasta, but to keep them shelf stable 409 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: and be able to send them around the world one 410 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: hundred percent. 411 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 3: And I'm sure there are some industrious chefs that were, 412 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 3: you know, making little shapes by hand. I mean, the 413 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 3: scope of this episode is maybe not necessarily to trace 414 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 3: the origins of every single pasta shape, but if you're 415 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 3: doing each one of those by hand, you need hundreds 416 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 3: of them, you know, to have anything of value to 417 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 3: be able to serve, you know, and a meal. So 418 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 3: that would just be kind of prohibitively tedious. So it 419 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 3: makes sense that this kind of explosion of industrialization led 420 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 3: to a much more scalable way of creating these delicious, little, 421 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 3: bite sized, grippy sauce magnets. 422 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I like sauce magnet. That feels like a 423 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: great name for a band or album. In the I'm 424 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: going to say late nineteen. 425 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 3: Ninety they went on tour with Monster Magnet, right. 426 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,719 Speaker 1: And ICP was not allowed to tour with them. 427 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 3: You Juggalos are apparently very nice people. 428 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: They're super nice. They're super nice. 429 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 3: I knew what I knew a Juggalo once. I knew 430 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 3: a Juggalo once. He was my favorite bartender, and he 431 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 3: didn't make a big to do about it. But then 432 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 3: one day we noticed his hatchet man tattoo and asked 433 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 3: him and he was just super nice and willing to 434 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 3: share all about his experience at the gathering of Juggles. Yeah. Yeah, 435 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 3: a fairly maligned group. I think they finally got off 436 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 3: of that terrorist. 437 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: The FBI was wrong. Yeah, the FBI was wrong in 438 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: that regard was. 439 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 3: A terrorist watch list. It was a gang watch list 440 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 3: or like a yeah, a desiccation list. Uh. 441 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: The the the Juggalos is a demographic are They've got 442 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: a lot of heart to him, and a lot of them, 443 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: to your point, are quietly spiritual, uh in their beliefs. 444 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: You ask him about stuff, they'll be glad to tell you, 445 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: but they're not going to push it on. 446 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 3: You know. And I bet some of them like pasta. 447 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: Yes, dude, most people like it's highly likely. Let's say 448 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: it that way. And with this we have to agree 449 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians. The story of Marco Polo and pasta is 450 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: a bit overblown, But the story of pasta itself is 451 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: a story of parallel thinking and ingenuity. Something like pasta 452 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: has been invented over and over and over again in 453 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: different parts of the world, across the chasms of time, 454 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: kind of like the discovery of fire, kind of like 455 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: the discovery of the wheel. But because we are a 456 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: US based show, we had to give you give you 457 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: one bit of cool historical trivia. If you enjoy pasta 458 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: in the United States, there's a president you should think. 459 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 3: Oh Man exactly, Thomas Jefferson, Old Tommy Jeff's helped give 460 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 3: pasta a big push into popularity here in the US 461 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 3: of A. During an extended visit to Paris from seventeen 462 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 3: eighty four to seventeen eighty nine, Jefferson eight what he 463 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 3: called macaroni back then, But he also it could have 464 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 3: just referred to any other shapes, because it reminds me, 465 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 3: I believe, what is a Yankee doodle? He went to town 466 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 3: riding on a pony, stuck the feather in his hat 467 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 3: and called it macaroni. But I believe in the context 468 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 3: of that song isn't macaroni Like it's kind of evoking 469 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 3: the cheek coolness of the Italians. Yeah, it's like it's swag. 470 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 3: It's referencing riz Yeah, there we go. It's referencing a 471 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 3: sort of hipster aesthetic of the time. But this is 472 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 3: so cool, man, because this shows us that while the 473 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 3: Marco Polo example of going to China and then returning 474 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 3: to Italy and saying, you guys, you gotta try this. 475 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: While that may not be entirely true, the Jefferson story 476 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: is he loved whatever he called macaroni so much that 477 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: he came back to the United States with two whole 478 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: cases of this stuff. He said, I have to bring 479 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: this home. And then when he ran out, he contacted 480 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: a buddy from Naples, Italy and was like, hey, man, 481 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: you got any more of that macaro anymore? 482 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 3: That needs more of that macron Now it's true, and 483 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 3: the rest is history, ridiculous history in fact, But I 484 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 3: gotta ask you, Ben. You know, we always say there's 485 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 3: nothing new under the sun, and we've been talking about 486 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 3: how long pasta has been a thing? Or noodles are 487 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 3: you know, manipulating unleavened dough into various shapes and boiling 488 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 3: it is there. Where's the innovation, Ben, where's the new 489 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 3: cutting edge trend in pasta technology? 490 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: Oh yes, oh beautiful man, this is something we have 491 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: to bring up. There's a new pasta design that is 492 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: hid in the streets and the dinner plates. It's Cascatelli. 493 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: We want to give a shout out to Dan Pashman, 494 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: host of several podcasts including The Sportful, who is the 495 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: inventor or co inventor of this new pasta shape. And he, 496 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: like us, got a little i don't want to say obsessed, 497 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: but got a little centered on the idea of creating 498 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: a new kind of pasta that that improved a couple 499 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: of metrics that he invented himself. And he has a 500 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: whole five episode podcast series about this called Mission Impostable. 501 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 3: You can buy it. Actually, Svoglini Pasta makes it. It's Cascatelle. 502 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 3: Buy sporkfull an original pasta shape. And you know what 503 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 3: it kind of looks like, Ben, It kind of looks 504 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 3: like tripe. It's it has this like intestiny like waviness 505 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 3: to the top, but it also is a C shape 506 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 3: and the bottom of it is kind of hollow, you know, 507 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 3: there's these two sort of I guess you could say channels, right, 508 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 3: sauce channels. So you got the grippy bits. I know 509 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 3: I've been saying that a lot, but I really do 510 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 3: think it holds sauce literally. So you've got the grippy, 511 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,239 Speaker 3: kind of wavey bit on the top and then the 512 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 3: hollow little sauce channels on the bottom. And the fact 513 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 3: that it's a C shape means gravity's kind of on 514 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 3: your side. It's brilliant, man. And I gotta say I've 515 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 3: gotten something similar to this at our decab farmers market. 516 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 3: They make their own pasta there, and I'm pretty sure 517 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 3: it's not this exactly, but I bought something very much 518 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 3: resembling this tripe like array there. And I'm gonna go 519 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 3: find me some Swolini Pasta Cascatelli by Sport Film. Yeah, yeah, it. 520 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: Look, we haven't talked to Dad about this. We're just 521 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: fans of this particular aspect of innovation, you know what 522 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: I mean. 523 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 3: I mean, how cool is it that it could be 524 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 3: you could literally invent a new pasta shape. It gives 525 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 3: me hope for the future of the world. 526 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna finally turn this civilization around. You know Dad 527 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: also had he here the metrics you had that we 528 00:31:54,120 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: just love. He said, I've been he's been evaluated. As 529 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: he gets to this, he's been evaluating all the existing 530 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: pasta shapes and he starts to rate them on what 531 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: he calls saucibility, How well the sausage. Here's fork ability, 532 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: how easy is it to eat with a fork? And 533 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: you'll love this one. Tooth sinkability. It's very toothsome there, 534 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: it is toothsome. Actually, I'm I didn't think of that. 535 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 3: You're right, bro, there is a schematic for this thing, 536 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 3: I think. Also on the Folini Pasta website he refers 537 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 3: to it as a Bucatini, which we've already said was 538 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,959 Speaker 3: one of our favorites. Haf tube plus ruffles that create 539 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 3: a sauce trough I believe, I said, sauce channels with 540 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 3: saucetroughs even better for maximum sauceibility. And then it just 541 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 3: describes the process using a bronze dye extruder that creates 542 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 3: a rougher surface, grippy, further boosting sausibility. 543 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: Yes, please do check out Mission Impossible, and everybody, thank 544 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: you for tuning into our our series where we hopefully 545 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: corrected some one of the most popular pasta myths. 546 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 3: But what a wild ride. 547 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: If you have been a turney, if you have been 548 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: eating pasta while you're listening to this, congratulations and thank 549 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: you for joining us. Share your favorite pasta stories weird 550 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: facts on our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians. 551 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 3: That's right, And can I just say, can we leave 552 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 3: you with a little recipe? Man, I'm sure you know 553 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 3: about this. But in the new relatively new show FX 554 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 3: show The Bear, which is about the journey of a 555 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 3: chef and his restaurant from like a kind of a 556 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 3: what do they call it? A beef sandwich place, to 557 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 3: like a fine dining experience, in the season one, they 558 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 3: make a family recipe for a pasta sauce for like 559 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 3: a what do you call it? Like a gravy. And 560 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 3: the key to it, and I do this every time 561 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 3: is you get a little bit of all oil in 562 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 3: a sauce pan, get it to where it's boiling, starting 563 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 3: to simmer, and then you take basil leaves and garlic 564 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 3: and you kind of simmer them and break them down 565 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 3: in that on a low heat, and then you let 566 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 3: it cool and then you blitze it in the you know, 567 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 3: in a food processor, and I swear to you you 568 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 3: will never have more of a basially infused garlic you flavor. 569 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 3: And then you make your sauce using sandwichchano, tomatoes, tomato paste, 570 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,760 Speaker 3: et cetera seasoning, and then you add in this mushed 571 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 3: up garlic basil olive oil mixture at the end and 572 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 3: stir it in and it is incredible. 573 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: Oh. Also, if you have a tomato sauce that's feeling 574 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 1: too acidic, you can just put a piece of carrot 575 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: in there the way you put a bay leaf and 576 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: soup and then take it out. It'll repair the acidity. 577 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 3: Interesting because I mean, there is that kind of holy 578 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 3: trinity that a lot of people use. I guess I 579 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,479 Speaker 3: forget what they call it. But like you start making 580 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 3: your sauce with carrot, celery, and onion, So maybe the 581 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 3: carrot part of it is more of a balancing the acidity. 582 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 3: But if you need a little extra help at the end, 583 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 3: just throwing a little chunk of carrot, that's great. Great 584 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 3: wreck bend. 585 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: And speaking of great recommendations, we cannot recommend and thank 586 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: our super producer Max Williams enough, but we will attempt 587 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: to do so. 588 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 3: Now. 589 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:18,959 Speaker 1: Thanks Max. 590 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 3: Hey, Thanks Max, You're the best. Thanks well. 591 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 5: By the way, did you guys know this episode is 592 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 5: incredibly painful for me because I cannot eat pasta the 593 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 5: condition condition. I can't tomatoes either. 594 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 3: Jesus well mac head have mushrooms and no, I'm a 595 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 3: big mushroom fan. Oh good, it's good. Finally a thing 596 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 3: that Max can enjoy with the rest of us. Max, 597 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 3: I do hope that the condition leaves you one of 598 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 3: these days. So I know, as you said, it was temporary, 599 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 3: but we don't quite know how long. So we're we're 600 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 3: all on your corner. 601 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 5: Max, Right, this fainting couch is rent to own, and 602 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 5: I'm really hoping I don't hit the time period where 603 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 5: it becomes oh yes, you get. 604 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 3: The vapors and you just have to like fall onto 605 00:35:59,040 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 3: the fainting couch. 606 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 1: Beautiful. Thank you as well to our composer Alex Williams. 607 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: We mentioned Christopher Hasiotis. Thank you to Christopher also, and 608 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: then oh, Eve's Jeff Cooke. 609 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 3: That's right. Advice all here in spirit. Jonathan Strickland, the 610 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 3: quizz A, j Bahamas Jacobs, the Puzzler Ben, thank you 611 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 3: for this incredible research brief that you prepared, and for 612 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 3: sharing your love and obsession with pasta with me and 613 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:26,720 Speaker 3: Max and the world. 614 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: Hey it's lunchtime. 615 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,240 Speaker 3: I shed a tear into my bucatini. See you next time. Books. 616 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 617 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.