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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 2: is Robert Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick, and we're back with part

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Speaker 3: two in our series on Future Shock, an example of

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Speaker 3: that most interesting class of artifacts. A book of predictions

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Speaker 3: about the future written more than fifty years ago, which

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Speaker 3: is always fun. So if you haven't listened to part

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Speaker 3: one yet, you should go back check that out first,

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Speaker 3: but to briefly refresh here, Future Shock was an extremely influential,

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Speaker 3: best selling futurology book published in the year nineteen seventy

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Speaker 3: by an author named Alvin Toffler, and though only Alvin's

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Speaker 3: name appears on the copy that I read, a lot

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Speaker 3: of retrospective sources attribute these works to Alvin and Heidi Toffler.

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Speaker 3: Alvin was Heidi's husband, and they were apparently major collaborators

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Speaker 3: in developing ideas for the book, so a lot of

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Speaker 3: retrospective looks at it credit both Alfin and Heidi, so

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Speaker 3: we might say Toaffler or the Toafflers. Like most futurology books,

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Speaker 3: Future Shock contains a lot of predictions about the future,

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Speaker 3: some quite prescient, others that sound absolutely absurd with hindsight.

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Speaker 3: But the real core of the book is not its

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Speaker 3: specific predictions about what's going to happen twenty or thirty

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Speaker 3: years down the road, but in its description of a

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Speaker 3: mass psychological condition that the authors say is already evident

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Speaker 3: at the time of the book's writing, brought on by

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Speaker 3: the technological environment of what the Tafflers call super industrial society,

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Speaker 3: and this would be the next technological leap forward after

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Speaker 3: the Industrial Revolution. This is the technology environment beginning in

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Speaker 3: roughly the mid twentieth century, and we got into more

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Speaker 3: detail about this last time. But basically, according to the Tofflers,

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Speaker 3: future shock is a way of experiencing a world in

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Speaker 3: which technology, and downstream from that, economics and culture are

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Speaker 3: all themselves changing and changing the world at an ever

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Speaker 3: accelerating rate, and this leads to a variety of mass

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Speaker 3: psychological distress similar to what has been called culture shock.

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Speaker 3: Culture shock is when a person is plunged into a

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Speaker 3: foreign culture and they don't understand the customs, don't know

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Speaker 3: how to communicate, don't know how to interact with or

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Speaker 3: make sense of the world around them, and suffer increased

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Speaker 3: anxiety and other symptoms of psychological distress until they either

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Speaker 3: become acclimated to the culture and figure out how to

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Speaker 3: interact with it, or go home. Future Shock is like that,

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Speaker 3: but it's for one's own culture and the way it

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Speaker 3: is changed around us by technology. Except with the future Shock,

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Speaker 3: you can't fix it by going home. The past is

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Speaker 3: gone and the world is just going to keep changing,

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Speaker 3: and it's just going to keep changing faster and faster.

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Speaker 3: And this leads to, according to them, this feeling of

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Speaker 3: widespread distress. People feel that there's something wrong about modern life.

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Speaker 3: It's everything's too hurried. Something is just like something about

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Speaker 3: the world is just bugging and harassing me, and I

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Speaker 3: never feel safe for at home or like I can

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Speaker 3: figure out what's going on. And of course, they say,

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Speaker 3: of course, if this were true, it would have negative

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Speaker 3: downstream effects on physical and mental health, which they talk

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Speaker 3: about by creating this state of heightened stress and the

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Speaker 3: other symptoms brought on by future shock. So we wanted

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Speaker 3: to revisit this book and give it a look fifty

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Speaker 3: years on. What do we think they were right about?

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Speaker 3: What do we think they were wrong about? What are

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Speaker 3: some of the interesting insights in the book. What are

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Speaker 3: some of the funny things about the book. Last time

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Speaker 3: I think we ended up. Do we get into the

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Speaker 3: predictions about how children are going to have to learn

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Speaker 3: how to pilot submarines in school?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think you brought up the submarines. This

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Speaker 2: was definitely something that had been jettison from my brain

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Speaker 2: since my my original reading of the book. Tell us

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Speaker 2: about the submarines, Joe, I don't.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's just a bit. One of the big

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Speaker 3: predictions for the future is that more and more of

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Speaker 3: human life is going to take place on and underneath

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Speaker 3: the ocean because there are a lot of natural resources

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Speaker 3: to harvest there, which in a way is true. There

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Speaker 3: there are a lot of natural resources there, but we

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Speaker 3: haven't really shifted to ocean based cultures the way the

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Speaker 3: book predicts. And in the chapter about education, I do

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Speaker 3: recall there's a paragraph where it says something about how,

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Speaker 3: you know, obviously children in the future it might be

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Speaker 3: more advantageous for them to learn the skills of navigating

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Speaker 3: a submarine environment and maybe maybe like piloting submarines and stuff.

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Speaker 3: Then it will be to learn the learn the you know,

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Speaker 3: the dead languages of the past or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it turns out the Sea Lab future hasn't

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Speaker 2: really caught on like they thought it might.

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Speaker 3: But like we said, there are other parts of the

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Speaker 3: book where they offer insights that at least I thought

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Speaker 3: we're pretty on target and do describe things that have

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Speaker 3: happened in the last fifty years quite well. So maybe

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Speaker 3: today we're going to start off by getting into some

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Speaker 3: of the features of this future shock world that they

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Speaker 3: describe and predict. And so the Toplers identify three big

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Speaker 3: characteristics of super industrial society that they think will play

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Speaker 3: a major role in inducing this state of future shock.

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Speaker 3: Those elements are transience, novelty, and diversity. Basically, the world

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Speaker 3: brought on by these changes in technology is going to

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Speaker 3: be a world in which things just kind of situations

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Speaker 3: arise more quickly and fade away more quickly without giving

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Speaker 3: you time to adjust to them. That's the transience also,

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Speaker 3: but there's a physical transience of things around us and

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Speaker 3: of relationships between people. So there's a faster coming and

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Speaker 3: going of the situations of life. That's transience. There is

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Speaker 3: not which is obviously just like new things that you're

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Speaker 3: not used to are going to be constantly coming into being,

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Speaker 3: and you will have to get used to them somehow.

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Speaker 3: And this includes everything from you know, technology and consumer products,

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Speaker 3: to business and economic relationships, to things in culture like

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Speaker 3: the family arrangements and social groups and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: And then finally diversity. There will just be more and

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Speaker 3: more different kinds of things in the world for you

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Speaker 3: to keep track of and select between and try to understand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so let's let's break it down a little

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Speaker 2: bit here, Yeah, because it definitely helps to sort of

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Speaker 2: single in on some of the key examples they bring up,

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Speaker 2: because they ultimately bring up so many different examples and

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Speaker 2: illustrations of what future shock is that it's it's easy

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Speaker 2: to just sort of think of it as this big

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Speaker 2: amorphous thing. So one of the key concepts that the

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Speaker 2: toplers bring up a lot is that of over choice quote,

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Speaker 2: the point at which the advantages of diversity and individualization

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Speaker 2: are canceled by the complexity of the buyer's decision making process.

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Speaker 2: So in this freedom becomes unfreedom as one suffers from

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Speaker 2: a kind of hyper decision fatigue. And they also offer

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Speaker 2: that there may be a social variation of over choice

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Speaker 2: as well, as one suffers from an inability quote to

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Speaker 2: create a sensible integrated and reasonably stable personal style. Now,

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Speaker 2: I don't know about that last part personally.

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Speaker 3: If I understand this idea right, it's that you know,

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Speaker 3: when there's just like too much freedom and variety to

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Speaker 3: choose from in how to style yourself, like to decide

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Speaker 3: to like, hey, am I a biker or am I

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Speaker 3: a hippie or am I a whatever, that it's actually

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Speaker 3: kind of paralyzing to have all these options.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, I would be very interested to

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Speaker 2: hear from listeners out there as far as personal style

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Speaker 2: is concerned. Here if you've ever felt over choice or

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Speaker 2: something like over choice concerning your personal style, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I think of my own experience and I look around

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Speaker 2: in the world around me, and it seems like people, yeah,

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Speaker 2: have more choices than ever, but they still seem to

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Speaker 2: figure it out. If they're paralyzed by over choice regarding

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Speaker 2: whether to be a biker or not, they don't seem

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Speaker 2: to express it. I was just just saw somebody's social

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Speaker 2: media post the other day and they had like a

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Speaker 2: picture of their boyfriend there and they like were clearly

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Speaker 2: decked out like a nineteen seventies biker, and I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: they chose something and they're committing to it. They don't

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Speaker 2: seem to be paralyzed by choice.

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Speaker 3: Here a seventies biker, So this is a were wolves

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Speaker 3: on wheels biker, not like a fifties biker.

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Speaker 2: Total yeah, total seventies biker. Look. And you know because

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Speaker 2: even now, like if you choose biker, you do get

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Speaker 2: to choose which decade. Right, there are multiple choices, but

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Speaker 2: not necessarily overchoice.

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Speaker 3: Do I want to be like Roger Korman biker, like

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Speaker 3: a Marlon Brando biker, or do I want to be

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Speaker 3: a were wolf on.

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Speaker 2: Wheels exactly psychomania? You have your choice.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the big differences is that the

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Speaker 3: earlier bikers bathe more.

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Speaker 2: They do get grevier. In the seventies, everything get a

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Speaker 2: little gravier, all right, now, as far as decision fatigue goes,

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Speaker 2: this being related to this concept of over choice, A

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Speaker 2: lot has been written about decision fatigue over the years.

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Speaker 2: I know it was particularly hot as like a buzzword,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe ten to fifteen years ago. I don't

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Speaker 2: think everything has been quite worked out concerning decision fatigue.

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Speaker 2: I think we all know that feeling when we have

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Speaker 2: trouble making yet another decision in the day, often late

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Speaker 2: in the day or laid in a shopping trip, and

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Speaker 2: we often wind up making questionable purchasing decisions, or that

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Speaker 2: seems to be the case. That's the argument of decision fatigue.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I haven't checked in on the empirical research on

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Speaker 3: decision fatigue, but I can say from personal experience it

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Speaker 3: seems to be a real thing. I mean that there

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Speaker 3: is an increasingly sort of taxing cumulative effect on the

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Speaker 3: mind of having to make decisions over and over, and

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Speaker 3: your desire to continue making decisions definitely goes down, and

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Speaker 3: the more you have had to do it, and probably

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Speaker 3: also your ability to use your rational faculties when making

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Speaker 3: those decisions goes down as part of that cumulative effect,

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Speaker 3: which may be a reason that you know, like certain

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Speaker 3: sales interactions are structured a certain way that like, you know,

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Speaker 3: you've already had to make a bunch of decisions about

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Speaker 3: investigating these cars and stuff, and then right at the end,

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Speaker 3: when you are just like weary of this process, they

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Speaker 3: hit you with upsells and stuff, and you're just like

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Speaker 3: trying to get this done and get out the door.

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Speaker 3: And so maybe you give in, even if it doesn't

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Speaker 3: make sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it does seem to either be a reality

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Speaker 2: or touch on a very firm reality when it comes

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Speaker 2: to sales interactions, because it has become something that that

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Speaker 2: various salespeople depend on now in terms of just over

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Speaker 2: choice more generally, you know, as far as my own

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Speaker 2: experiences go, I guess I have felt something like over

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Speaker 2: choice at times. Given, especially when you're thinking about extensive

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Speaker 2: digital catalogs of movies or books. There have been plenty

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Speaker 2: of times where I have my e reader device out

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Speaker 2: and I'm looking for something to read, and I end up,

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Speaker 2: you know, just browsing a lot, downloading some samples, and

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Speaker 2: then eventually I get sleepy and go to bed and

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Speaker 2: I haven't actually read anything I've In the past, I

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Speaker 2: had this experience with some of the big digital catalogs

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Speaker 2: of movies online where I'll go on there and I'll

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Speaker 2: start looking around at interesting looking films, looking at posters,

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Speaker 2: looking at who's in them, and then seeing what are

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Speaker 2: some like related films, and I end up spending like,

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Speaker 2: you know, an hour even looking around at films, never

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Speaker 2: pick out something to watch, get sleepy, go to bed. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and even Reno reached the point where I'm just like

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Speaker 2: I just can't decide, and I realize I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to make a decision and I just need to do

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Speaker 2: something else.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is an extremely common thing with browsing movie

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Speaker 3: selections on streaming services. I've also really noticed this with music,

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Speaker 3: and in a way, this makes me very sad. I

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Speaker 3: cannot help but conclude my connection with music has become

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Speaker 3: less deep and less fulfilling. I think as a result

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Speaker 3: of streaming services just having available anything I want to

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Speaker 3: listen to. I know I had a deeper and more

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Speaker 3: enjoyable relationship with music when I had a more limited

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Speaker 3: selection of music to choose from, and it was hard

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Speaker 3: to find things I wanted to listen to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely remember back when I had to buy

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Speaker 2: an album, even if it was a digital album, Like,

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Speaker 2: all right, i've spent my ten, twelve bucks whatever it

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Speaker 2: is for the week. I can't rationally buy another album

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Speaker 2: this week or maybe even this month. So this is

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Speaker 2: the one I'm going to listen to, and I'm either

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Speaker 2: going to like it or I'm going to find reasons

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Speaker 2: to like it. I'm going to rationalize this purchase. But nowadays, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you can try anything, and you and I find myself

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Speaker 2: off in giving the new material just little or no

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Speaker 2: time to impress me, and it's got to really impress

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Speaker 2: me otherwise I just you know, it stays tagged, stays

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Speaker 2: in the list, but I might not listen to it

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Speaker 2: again for another year.

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Speaker 3: I hate that this is true about me, but I

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Speaker 3: think it is now.

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Speaker 2: I will say that with movies in particular, I find

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Speaker 2: it I'm encountering it less these days for a couple

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Speaker 2: of reasons. First, I think the monolithic selection that was

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Speaker 2: originally provided by some of these big, big box streaming platforms,

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Speaker 2: there's been a you know, there's been a fracturing, there's

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Speaker 2: been a contraction of their offerings. And also we've seen

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Speaker 2: the resurgence of physical media. So I find myself going

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Speaker 2: to like Atlanta's own videodrome more often these days, looking

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Speaker 2: around there, and you know, I can feel overwhelmed by

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Speaker 2: the physical selection as well, But there's something different about

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Speaker 2: that physical selection and knowing that, like, Okay, in maybe

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Speaker 2: fifteen minutes, I need to leave here, and I'm either

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Speaker 2: leaving empty handed or I'm leaving taking a chance on something.

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Speaker 3: I think it may well be that your decision to

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Speaker 3: go to videodrome and get the physical media. Might be

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Speaker 3: kind of like the person who chooses says I'm a

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Speaker 3: biker or I'm a hippie. You know, it's part of

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Speaker 3: your personal style. You are in a way a movie nerd.

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Speaker 3: You're a guy who goes to videodrome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I would be interested to hear from

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Speaker 2: everyone else out there on this. Do you feel over

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Speaker 2: choice or something like over choice or even just doing

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Speaker 2: decision fatigue in any area of your life that relates

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Speaker 2: to what we're talking about here, all right, now, the

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Speaker 2: next big one, this is something that, of course, you know,

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Speaker 2: we could easily talk at length about. And that's the

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Speaker 2: idea that it's a world of accelerating change, The idea

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Speaker 2: that you know, one just feels simply overwhelmed by the

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Speaker 2: rate of change in the world social, technological et cetera,

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Speaker 2: with of course, all the additional avenues of change brought

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Speaker 2: on by both. So the rate of change outstrips our

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Speaker 2: ability to adapt. And meanwhile, the book argues, old stabilizing

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Speaker 2: institutions fall away or become less important, so the guide

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Speaker 2: rail you've been following through this storm of change might

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Speaker 2: suddenly just not be there. Anymore or it gets shakier.

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Speaker 2: And and you know what am I supposed to do now?

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Speaker 2: Because I've been depending upon this system to get me

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Speaker 2: here Now, they write that humans are famously grad at adapting, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's like humanity's thing. We can adapt to

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Speaker 2: all sorts of situations and events in life, and we've

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Speaker 2: adapted a great deal as humans have have have taken

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Speaker 2: over the world. But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: they say, we're still organisms. We're still quote unquote biosystems,

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Speaker 2: and quote all such systems operate within inexorable limits, they write,

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Speaker 2: quote we might We may define future shock as the distress,

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Speaker 2: both physical and psychological, that arises from an overload of

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Speaker 2: the human organism's physical adaptive system and it's decision making processes.

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Speaker 2: Put more simply, future shock is the human response to

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Speaker 2: over stimulation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and in some ways I see this as overlapping

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Speaker 3: with what we were just talking about. So in a

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Speaker 3: world where there is so much diversity of things to

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Speaker 3: choose between, and so many decisions you can or have

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Speaker 3: to make, that of course is a type of stress.

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Speaker 3: But also increasingly accelerating changes in the culture around you

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Speaker 3: force you to make new choices because they are they're

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Speaker 3: essentially they're obliterating the stable habits that you establish for

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Speaker 3: yourself that allow you to go through life without having

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Speaker 3: to make too many choices. Habits in a way are

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Speaker 3: just a way of alleviating choice stress, you know, like

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Speaker 3: I don't have to think about what I'm going to

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Speaker 3: do now I know what comes next. And we do

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Speaker 3: this with all kinds of things in our lives. When

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Speaker 3: the world around you is just changing faster and faster,

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Speaker 3: it's harder for you to stick to habits, and thus

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Speaker 3: it's just forcing new decision stresses onto you all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean even you know with technology obviously, you know,

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Speaker 2: in user interfaces, even as they make changes with various

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Speaker 2: interfaces to make it easier or supposedly make it easier,

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Speaker 2: like you still then have to adapt to it. And

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Speaker 2: I think we all encounter this all the time, like,

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Speaker 2: oh now my phone screen is different. Now this interface

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Speaker 2: is different, and maybe it's actually going to be better,

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Speaker 2: but I still have to learn it all again, and

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Speaker 2: there's no telling when this will happen again, and then

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Speaker 2: I have to relearn it once more. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And one of the examples they talk about in the book.

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Speaker 3: This kind of relates to their discussion of planned obsolescence,

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Speaker 3: the fact that there are all kinds of consumer choices

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Speaker 3: people are forced to make, essentially because the you know,

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Speaker 3: manufacturers want to find a way to sell the new thing,

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Speaker 3: even if the new thing isn't actually all that better.

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Speaker 3: They've just they're trying to find ways to keep the

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Speaker 3: economic activity churning, which is still forcing you to learn

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Speaker 3: something new and make new decisions. Maybe maybe they can

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Speaker 3: convince you that, oh no, this, actually this new thing

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Speaker 3: is actually better. I do want the new thing, but

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Speaker 3: is it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it seems so rare these days. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is where this aligns up with a lot of truth.

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Speaker 2: It's so rare these days where you find a product

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Speaker 2: where it's like, oh, this works really well and I

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Speaker 2: don't think I'll ever have to replace it. There's no

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Speaker 2: way they could improve upon it. It seems almost bad

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Speaker 2: for business when that's the case. You know, Like I

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Speaker 2: have a coffee making device that I use all the time,

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Speaker 2: and I did manage to break it once whilst bringing

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Speaker 2: in on a flight, but otherwise it's simple, it doesn't break.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing really new you get for it, except for filters,

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Speaker 2: you know, or if you do lose or break apart.

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Speaker 2: And at times I'll wonder, it's like, wow, what's the

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Speaker 2: plan with this company? Like how can they you can

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Speaker 2: only like expand usage of this so much? How are

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Speaker 2: you going to sell additional ones to people who use

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Speaker 2: the product?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well this ties into one of the next things

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Speaker 3: that they talk about, which is which is transience and

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Speaker 3: the economic or connsumer. One of the big economic or

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Speaker 3: consumer manifestations of transience is just everything around you being

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Speaker 3: more and more disposable, physically coming into your life for

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Speaker 3: a shorter and shorter period of time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And so they talk about this at length in

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Speaker 2: terms of products certainly, and you know, we've always heard

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Speaker 2: bits of this like oh, the furniture of these days,

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Speaker 2: this is not meant to last old days. We had the

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Speaker 2: same furniture our whole lives and that was passed down

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Speaker 2: to us from our grandparents, that sort of thing. But

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Speaker 2: in the book they also apply it to things beyond products,

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Speaker 2: like relationships, jobs, cultural institutions, and more. And I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of these examples do ring with a certain

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Speaker 2: amount of truth. For instance, people having to reskill, you know,

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Speaker 2: to keep pace with changes in technology, you know, people

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Speaker 2: having to change careers multiple times during the course of

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Speaker 2: a lifetime and so forth.

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Speaker 3: There was one part in this section of the book

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Speaker 3: that I actually found quite interesting where it made me

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Speaker 3: think about how there are different types of materialism of

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Speaker 3: you know, one material goods, whereas you know, usually when

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Speaker 3: you think about materialism, that's just like, oh, I want

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Speaker 3: to buy something, I want to own something and have it.

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Speaker 3: But there is a big difference. There's a big emotional

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Speaker 3: and psychological difference between wanting to buy something that you

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Speaker 3: will keep and form a relationship with versus wanting to

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Speaker 3: buy something that you will use and then discard and

375
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Speaker 3: get a different thing that feels different. And they use

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Speaker 3: the example of dolls that like, traditionally, you know, a

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Speaker 3: child might form a strong emotional connection with one doll

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Speaker 3: and then keep that one doll over many, many years.

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Speaker 3: And then they talk about the idea of toy companies

380
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Speaker 3: trying to introduce new models of relationships with dolls where

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Speaker 3: you would like, trade in your old doll, maybe trade

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Speaker 3: in your old barbie to get a new one, to

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Speaker 3: introduce this idea that you don't just have one doll

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Speaker 3: and have a relationship with it for years, but you're

385
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Speaker 3: always getting newer, better dolls.

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Speaker 2: In a way, it's almost hard to process that because

387
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Speaker 2: it's just how everything is now, you know. I mean,

388
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 2: it's like, except for maybe the trade in factor, that

389
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 2: actually sounds more sustainable than just having a drawer of

390
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Speaker 2: old barbies with like their hair all missed up and

391
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Speaker 2: no clothing on anymore.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think, yeah, I think that the old barbie

393
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Speaker 3: is what you do with them now is you make

394
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Speaker 3: them look weird, right, you like cut their hair in

395
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Speaker 3: strange ways and like draw on them and stuff.

396
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that sort of thing. But yeah, like I actually

397
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Speaker 2: kind of like the idea of, oh, when you're done

398
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Speaker 2: with this doll, with this toy, whatever the thing happens

399
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Speaker 2: to be, let's trade that in, let's pass that on.

400
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, I become more of a minimalist with

401
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 2: the sort of thing.

402
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 3: So I guess while we're discussing things that I think

403
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 3: the book does get largely right. One of the most

404
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Speaker 3: interesting and persuasive sections of Future Shock, in my opinion,

405
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 3: was the Toffler's discussion of how people use and understand

406
00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 3: their time and how that's changing due to the technological environment.

407
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Speaker 3: For example, I thought there was a really interesting observation

408
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 3: about how fundamental duration expectation is to the character of

409
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Speaker 3: our lives. We are creatures that we have no choice

410
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Speaker 3: but to live in time, and most situations that we

411
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Speaker 3: are involved in or affected by, come with an unspoken

412
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 3: expectation of a certain duration in time. We expect it

413
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Speaker 3: to take a certain amount of time to make dinner,

414
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Speaker 3: a certain amount of time to complete the workday, a

415
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 3: certain amount of time to travel here or there. And

416
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 3: also for longer situations. There are duration expectations for business

417
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 3: and employment relationships, length of time at a particular residence,

418
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Speaker 3: length of a friendship or another type of social relationship,

419
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Speaker 3: length of a marriage, and sometimes we get these expectations wrong.

420
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Speaker 3: You know, you can't always predict, but we have to

421
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Speaker 3: be able to predict the duration of most of these

422
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 3: situations with some reasonable degree of accuracy, or we cannot

423
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 3: navigate our lives. Everything feels totally out of control. And

424
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Speaker 3: I think the Tofflers advance a pretty convincing case that

425
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Speaker 3: in general, in the twentieth century, especially the later twentieth

426
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Speaker 3: century and superindustrial society, most situations in life are evolving

427
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 3: to become shorter and change faster, and this acceleration is

428
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 3: too fast for people to adjust their duration expectations accordingly,

429
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Speaker 3: and this contributes to a widespread feeling that life is

430
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Speaker 3: overwhelming and out of control and causes people to feel

431
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 3: helpless and confused and alienated. And for the most part,

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Speaker 3: I think this diagnosis is largely insightful and correct.

433
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Speaker 2: This is fascinating. Yeah, getting into how we think about

434
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Speaker 2: our time, how we estimate the time duration of things

435
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 2: we are going to be involved in, and then yeah,

436
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 2: I think we can all think of time just in

437
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: our regular day to day where you get something wrong

438
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: and yeah, before long, you maybe you don't feel just

439
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 2: like overwhelming anxiety, but you do feel that feeling of well,

440
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: there's a sense of narrowing, there's a sense of things

441
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,479
Speaker 2: slipping a little out of your control, moving faster than

442
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:17,959
Speaker 2: they should.

443
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 3: So, because their comments on time use were one of

444
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 3: the most interesting things about the book to me, I

445
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 3: was wondering, Okay, has anybody looked at this empirically. Do

446
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 3: we have like a retrospective that has tried to evaluate

447
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 3: their claims and said how do they stack up? I

448
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 3: actually did find a paper on this subject. So there

449
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 3: was a paper published in the year twenty ten in

450
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 3: the Journal of Future Studies by an author named Mika Pantsar,

451
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 3: and it's called Future Shock, discussing the changing temporal architecture

452
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 3: of daily Life. So, Mika Pantsar is an economist based

453
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 3: at the University of Helsinki in Finland. And so this

454
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 3: article assesses some of the claim that are put forward

455
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 3: in Future Shock that feel correct, but are kind of

456
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 3: presented in the book without rigorous empirical backing. They're just

457
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 3: sort of asserted, specifically, claims about changes to the rhythms

458
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 3: of everyday life. Pants Are writes quote. The main purpose

459
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 3: of this article is to examine, in the light of

460
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 3: time use research, to what extent and in what ways

461
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 3: Tofler's claims about the quickening of life rhythms have come true.

462
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 3: And pants Are begins by noting a seeming paradox in

463
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 3: the research on time use. Since the time Future Shock

464
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 3: was published in nineteen seventy, studies in Western countries have

465
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 3: shown that, on average, the amount of leisure time in

466
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 3: people's lives has slowly but steadily increased. I think it's

467
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 3: not a huge difference, but there's been a gradual increase

468
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 3: of a little bit with the exceptions of the United

469
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 3: States in Great Britain, where it seems leisure time has

470
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 3: actually somewhat decreased in the same period, at least up

471
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 3: to the point of the studies pants are sites which

472
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 3: are from nineteen ninety two in two thousand and four,

473
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 3: can't be sure if the trend continues after that. But

474
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 3: even in the rest of the Western countries where people

475
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: have on average had a little bit more free time,

476
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 3: surveys have found people report consistently increased feelings of hurriedness

477
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 3: in their lives. So of course it makes sense why

478
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 3: people would be feeling more hurried and stressed out in

479
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 3: the US and Great Britain on average if people actually

480
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 3: have a little bit less free time, But why would

481
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 3: they be feeling that in countries where they have more

482
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 3: free time than they did a generation ago? And the

483
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 3: author argues that quote, the paradox of increased leisure time

484
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: and feelings of hurriedness become understandable when the focus is

485
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 3: shifted from the total amount of free time and duration

486
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 3: of activities to qualitative changes in rhythms resulting from various

487
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 3: interdependencies between mundane activities. So it may be not so

488
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 3: much how much time we have, but how time is

489
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 3: structured in our lives. So, first of all, just to

490
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 3: review a few interesting empirical findings on people's time use

491
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 3: in general. And again remember this was published in twenty ten,

492
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 3: so findings coming in after that could change the picture somewhat.

493
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 3: But first of all, as a note, it should be

494
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 3: said that accounting for people's time use has presented more

495
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 3: methodological difficulties than you might at first imagine. So time

496
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 3: youse studies are often structured so that you sort your

497
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 3: time use into episodes of activity that fit into various

498
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 3: categories like paid work or housework or rest or free time.

499
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 3: But studies found that there were some uses of time

500
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 3: that were kind of difficult to sort into categories, and

501
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 3: some events recognized as episodes by the subjects that researchers

502
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 3: didn't anticipate, such as Swedish researchers in the nineties discovering

503
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 3: that lots of people regard quote coming home as a

504
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 3: unique time use episode in the day. Where does that

505
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 3: fit in? You know, the time you're arriving at your

506
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 3: house and getting settled. So this kind of research isn't

507
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 3: as easy as it might sound. Still, there were a

508
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 3: selection of interesting findings I wanted to mention. One was

509
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 3: that international comparative studies in the seventies and early eighties

510
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 3: found that time use varied a lot more based on

511
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 3: the level of economic development than on the economic system.

512
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 3: So people might have imagined, going, you know, your hypothesis

513
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 3: might be that time use is very different on different

514
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 3: sides of the Iron Curtain. But instead they found that

515
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 3: superpower countries both communists and capitalists, had similar patterns of

516
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: time use. People used their time much the same way

517
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 3: as in the United States and the Soviet Union, but

518
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: these patterns were much different than how people spent their

519
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 3: time in less developed economies on both sides of the

520
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 3: Cold War divide. And I think that would kind of

521
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 3: stack up with the future shock claim that changes in

522
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 3: technology filter down to changes in the rest of culture

523
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 3: and in work and in family life, and this is

524
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 3: largely what's guiding changes in how people experience time. Okay,

525
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 3: there's also some research indicating that in Western countries time

526
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 3: use is converging on more uniformity across different demographic categories.

527
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 3: So like it used to be that men and women

528
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 3: spend their time in more different ways, some studies apparently

529
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 3: find that their patterns are coming closer together, though, and

530
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 3: the same would be true of differences between social classes.

531
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 3: Though even though there might be a trend in the

532
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: direction of more similarity over time, differences remain and Pantsar

533
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 3: also cites research finding that on average, men still had

534
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 3: more free time than women, and the rich still had

535
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,479
Speaker 3: more than the poor, But overall time use studies of

536
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 3: this sort revealed that changes between nineteen seventy and this

537
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 3: paper in twenty ten are fairly modest in terms of

538
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: overall time use, with one major exception one big change,

539
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,479
Speaker 3: which is TV. One of the biggest changes that can

540
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 3: be tracked since the time of Future Shock is the

541
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 3: average change in the amount of time daily spent watching television.

542
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 3: People on average across all Western countries spend a lot

543
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 3: of their free time watching TV. Quote in almost all

544
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 3: Western countries, the share of television from the roughly six

545
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 3: hours of daily free time is nowadays about a third,

546
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 3: that is over two hours. Increasingly, TV watching serves as

547
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 3: a kind of indicator of the flexibility of daily schedules,

548
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 3: So when there is more free time, TV watching sort

549
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 3: of expands to absorb that time, and when people have

550
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 3: more things to do and they have less free time.

551
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: TV watching is cut to make the time.

552
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: I mean we do, or at least we have been

553
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: living in an age of prestige television though, I mean

554
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,719
Speaker 2: the golden age of television with so many great shows.

555
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 3: Surely that is what we're all spending our time on.

556
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 3: We're watching the great shows.

557
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, you get Yeah, you gotta make fun make time

558
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: for the fun shows too.

559
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. But Pantzer also says that the inner, of course,

560
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 3: is changing these patterns. Again, this was twenty ten, so

561
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 3: it seems very likely that the Internet is increasingly filling

562
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 3: time that used.

563
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 2: To be devoted to TV.

564
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: So maybe today people spend a lot of the time

565
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 3: that used to be devoted to TV scrolling social media instead.

566
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: Step up. I don't think so.

567
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: However, these types of studies have real limits because, for example,

568
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: they give an oversimplified picture of what each of these

569
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 3: classes of activities really means. What about when you are

570
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: doing work, like your paid job work on a laptop

571
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 3: and you're texting with a friend and watching TV at

572
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 3: the same time. What about when you're watching TV while

573
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 3: you're cooking dinner for your family. What about while when

574
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 3: you're like trying to relax and so you're trying to

575
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 3: have rest or free time, but you're constantly being interrupted

576
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 3: every few minutes by pings from work, email, or a

577
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 3: crying baby that needs to be soothed back to sleep.

578
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 3: How do you measure or categorize these types of time

579
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: use and and understand their qualitative effect on life? So

580
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: Pantsar says it's probably more important to look at quote

581
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: the quality of time spent, and especially the inner structure

582
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 3: of time use or the architecture of time. So the

583
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 3: author here says that there are a lot of studies

584
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 3: indicating that when people feel stress related to their time use,

585
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 3: a lot of it seems to come from dissatisfaction with

586
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 3: the way time is organized, rather than like just how

587
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 3: much free time you do or don't have. People seem

588
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 3: to feel more stressed when their time is spent in

589
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 3: a way that is quote externally directed, being largely reactive

590
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 3: to continual surprises. So I'm imagining you know when your

591
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 3: time is spent in a way that you did not

592
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 3: deliberately and autonomously choose, it's taken up by a bunch

593
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 3: of unpredictable stimuli or tasks or bids for your attention,

594
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: that you feel like you are obligated to react to

595
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 3: and don't know what they're going to be ahead of

596
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 3: time or when they're going to come in. This can

597
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 3: of course be true of the work life, especially for

598
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 3: certain professions, but also true of home life, especially for

599
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 3: people responsible for home and childcare and time use. Organize

600
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 3: this way creates a sense of urgency and sometimes a

601
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 3: lack of autonomy, leading to feelings of hurriedness and stress.

602
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 3: You know, for a hyper streamlined version of this, I

603
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 3: know my own brain reacts exactly this way. It work

604
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 3: like My sense of stress with work is almost perfectly

605
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 3: correlated to like how many unexpected emails and extra kinds

606
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 3: of tasks are coming in asking me to focus on

607
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 3: something other than like my main work. And likewise at home,

608
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 3: I feel a lot less stress about one big housework

609
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 3: project that I chose to do, versus like a bunch

610
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 3: of problems that keep popping up without warning that I

611
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 3: have to do something about immediately.

612
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: That's a problem about about home ownership. Though. All you

613
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 2: do is you get all those little pop up problems

614
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: one after the other in addition to the big ones

615
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 2: that you know are coming.

616
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 3: So Pantser calls this the number of quote action episodes

617
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 3: that our daily time use is broken up into, and

618
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 3: that the number of action episodes is likely to just

619
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 3: keep increasing. The differences in these numbers already correlate with

620
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 3: differences that we see in people's level of stress about

621
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 3: time use.

622
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: Quote.

623
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 3: At present, women's time is divided into more pieces than men's,

624
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 3: which perhaps explains why women are more stressed than men

625
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 3: about their time use. This trend is strengthened by the

626
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 3: fact that the overlapping of episodes has increased, especially with women.

627
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 3: And so when we look at this idea about the

628
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 3: quality or the inner structure of time use, we can

629
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 3: find empirical research documenting several changes, and Pantser summarizes them

630
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: into a table of five main trends. First of all,

631
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 3: studies find that in the recent decades, time use is

632
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: becoming more irregular. Just one example of time use becoming

633
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 3: more irregular a shift on average from predictable established meal

634
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 3: times to unpredictable ad hoc sessions of eating or snacking,

635
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 3: which occur at different times and last for different amounts

636
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 3: of time. I will say this is certainly true in

637
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 3: my life. I think when I was younger, I ate

638
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 3: at more predictable meal times. And I don't know, maybe

639
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 3: just that this is something personal, but certainly my eating

640
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 3: schedule is way more irregular than it used to be.

641
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I don't know. I feel my mine's

642
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 2: pretty We run a tight ship around here. Things are

643
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: pretty solid. But that being said, with a child, sometimes

644
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: it does take a long time to finish these meals.

645
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, they're still working out exactly why this

646
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: is the case, but like, sometimes it's like a fifteen

647
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,919
Speaker 2: minute meal. Other times it's like, all right, we're about

648
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 2: the inner hour two of dinner. We don't have time

649
00:35:59,640 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 2: for this.

650
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 3: Another example I thought of, I think people used to

651
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 3: have more regularized news consumption sessions on average. On average,

652
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 3: people used to have more likely like a standard time

653
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 3: for reading the newspaper or watching the evening news. Now,

654
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 3: following the news has become a more irregular, ad hoc

655
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 3: activity that occurs at less predictable times throughout the day

656
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 3: and fills in other bits of free time.

657
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 2: Which is, for a lot, if not most, people, not

658
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 2: a good model. I mean, sometimes your profession requires you

659
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 2: to stay on the pulse of the news twenty four

660
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 2: to seven. But I know for a lot of people,

661
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: like one of a big bit of like therapeutic advice

662
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,479
Speaker 2: has been, hey, just pick a certain time to check

663
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: the news, or find a way where you're getting your

664
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 2: news via say a newsletter or something to that effect,

665
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: so that it's not just you're just constantly dipping in,

666
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: constantly diving into your news app feed or or worse,

667
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: you know, your social media related news feed, whatever the

668
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 2: case may be. Like setting aside a particular time and

669
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 2: saying this is when I will get the news, and

670
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: then I will get it again tomorrow.

671
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 3: I am not a mental health professional, but I think

672
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 3: that is really solid advice. I think confining your news

673
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 3: consumption to regularize time periods rather than just like looking

674
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 3: at the news in idle moments, is much better for

675
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 3: your brain.

676
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: I know in my experience, a big one has been

677
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,959
Speaker 2: cutting out this whole model where if I'm in the car,

678
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 2: I'll probably have the news on and listen to the

679
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 2: news for a bit. You know, there are a lot

680
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 2: of great news programs on the radio and on public

681
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: radio that I enjoy a lot, and I still may

682
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: listen to them occasionally. But I felt myself evening out

683
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,959
Speaker 2: a bit when I started leaning more into like, okay,

684
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 2: I'm I'm gonna listen to music, or I'm gonna put

685
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 2: on an audio book. If I need something that's non musical,

686
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: let's do an audiobook instead and set aside time for

687
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: checking out on the news some other time.

688
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 3: I think that's a very good strategy. Okay, so that's

689
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 3: the first thing. Studies find time use becoming more irregular.

690
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 3: Second empirical finding time use is becoming more fragmented. We

691
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 3: are spending less unbroken time devoted to single activities. There

692
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 3: is more frequent switching between different activities and intrusions of

693
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 3: one activity on another. I think about myself, and again,

694
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 3: it's totally possible this may have more to do with personal,

695
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 3: individual life changes unique to me than changes in the

696
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 3: broader culture. I don't know. But still I'm reminded of how,

697
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 3: like ten fifteen years ago, I would really often, just

698
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 3: frequently sit down and watch a whole movie. I would

699
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 3: just watch it through from beginning to end, with no interruptions.

700
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 3: And in recent year, I mean, obviously now I have

701
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 3: a child, but even before I had a child, in

702
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 3: recent years, I don't know, the past five years, that

703
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: idea just seems ludicrous, like it's just a given, and

704
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 3: that there will be interruptions of some sort to the

705
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 3: movie watching experience. I'll need to break the viewing into

706
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 3: multiple sittings. Maybe I'll need to go focus on something else.

707
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 3: I'll get an email or text or something I need

708
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 3: to respond to, or just something happens that prevents me

709
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 3: from sitting down for two hours and paying attention to

710
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 3: one thing.

711
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes I found this sometimes in my own experience,

712
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 2: And I certainly don't mind breaking up a movie watching

713
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 2: one half one day and one half the next. Sometimes

714
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: it's broken up a lot more than that. But at

715
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 2: times where there have been times where I've watched an

716
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 2: entire movie or the majority of a movie in one setting,

717
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 2: And it's a notable experience when that happens, Like generally,

718
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 2: it's a testament to how good the movie is that

719
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: it was able to like suck me in enough that

720
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: I was able to not get distracted by various other tasks.

721
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels. It feels significant when it happens now.

722
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 3: And the author of this paper relates this finding about

723
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 3: time use becoming increasingly fragmented to studies comparing something comparing

724
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 3: a couple of concepts called casual leisure versus serious leisure,

725
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 3: and the idea here is that they're actually different types

726
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 3: of leisure activities. There's casual leisure, which does not require

727
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 3: serious concentration, can be easily interrupted, broken into pieces, and

728
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 3: there's serious leisure, which requires concentration and has some hierarchical elements.

729
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 3: In my own case, I think of like scrolling junk

730
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 3: on my phone as casual leisure versus playing and recording

731
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 3: music as serious leisure. I get much much more enjoyment

732
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 3: and fulfillment from the latter. I would really rather be

733
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 3: spending my time doing that, but I often default to

734
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 3: the former, to the scrolling, because I know that I

735
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 3: only have a short amount of free time and I

736
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 3: expect to be interrupted by something, so I really can't

737
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 3: get into the committed concentration state necessary for music.

738
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I also find this in my own life.

739
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 2: Like for me, casual leisure is often something like painting

740
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 2: a little bit on some minis, which are often on

741
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 2: a like a tray next to my work computer. So

742
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 2: I'll find on a good day, I may find, you know,

743
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 2: a couple of moments to sort of switch seats and

744
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 2: do a little bit of painting and then clean everything up,

745
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,439
Speaker 2: let that dry go back to what I was doing,

746
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 2: you know, And I like that. I like having a

747
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 2: casual leisure activity that I can dip in and out of.

748
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 2: It certainly fits in with like a you know, busy lifestyle,

749
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 2: but yeah, that serious leisure when you can is sometimes

750
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 2: the kind of thing you you kind of fantasize about,

751
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 2: like you imagine yourself locked in a room with your

752
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: casual leisure activities where you can only do that one thing. Goodness.

753
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: I think I think of things like, you know, reading

754
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 2: a good book on a beach being in a way

755
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: kind of a serious leisure activity where it's like, what

756
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 2: am I doing for the next hour or two? This?

757
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 2: This is what I'm doing.

758
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 3: I think when we mentioned in our Weird House Cinema

759
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 3: episode on The Never Ending Story that the thing about

760
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: the movie I remember from childhood being even more exciting

761
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 3: than any of the fantasy elements, was just the idea

762
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 3: that this kid takes a book and he goes and

763
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 3: hides in a room and nobody knows he's there, and

764
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 3: he just reads the book all day and nobody comes

765
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 3: in and tells him that he has to go do

766
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 3: something else. And I remember at the time that just

767
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 3: feeling magical, and it still does make me feel that way.

768
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 2: I guess one of the problems that arises out of

769
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: all this is what you're probably not dealing with just

770
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 2: a this this division between casual leisure and serious leisure

771
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 2: and having to pin more on casual leisure. But also

772
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 2: it's like casual work versus serious work, right, and the

773
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 2: day ends up getting broken into like a bunch of

774
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 2: like short bursts of activity as opposed to like kind

775
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 2: of like deep focus, deep research sort of work that

776
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 2: many many jobs require in one form or another.

777
00:42:52,080 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, but anyway, that's time is becoming more fragmented

778
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 4: this second finding third empirical finding.

779
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 3: Time time use is becoming more overlapped. People are increasingly

780
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 3: trying to do multiple different things at the same time.

781
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 3: And there may be a few exceptions, but for the

782
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 3: most part, if you're trying to do multiple things at

783
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 3: the same time, you're probably not doing either one of

784
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 3: them very well.

785
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean at the same time, it's like

786
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: you want to catch up on your podcast listening. I mean,

787
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 2: what do you do You've put those earbuds in whilst

788
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 2: you're doing other things, right.

789
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well, and that does highlight actually I mean,

790
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 3: there are certain things that are easier to do simultaneously

791
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 3: than others. Yeah, like listening to an audiobook or a

792
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 3: podcast or something while you're say, cleaning up the kitchen

793
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 3: that's something I do often, or doing other kind of chores,

794
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 3: wrote chores around the house. I think that's a different

795
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 3: kind of brain division, where you know, the divided attention

796
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 3: doesn't suffer too much. I think where it really does suffer,

797
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 3: at least in my case, is like, I don't know,

798
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 3: trying to work on something while also paying attention to

799
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 3: something else.

800
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 2: Like yeah, just like you're cooking, say you're cooking at

801
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 2: the same time while also trying to research for something

802
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 2: you know, where you're like, okay, that has fifteen minutes

803
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 2: put on that timer. Now I have fifteen minutes to

804
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,439
Speaker 2: do this other task. But you're never really completely into

805
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 2: that other task because you know, you have the stove

806
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 2: running that sort of thing.

807
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 3: Now, a lot of times in people's lives, it just

808
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 3: seems like you have no choice but to multitask because

809
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 3: you know you've got two things you've got to do

810
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 3: and you only have a certain amount of time. So

811
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 3: this is just something that is increasingly true about modern life.

812
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 3: Apparently more and more tasks are taking place simultaneously. Another

813
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 3: change that studies have found, which is that time use

814
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 3: and everyday routines are shifting to new places. Just one

815
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 3: example here, people are increasingly trying to do certain time

816
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 3: use activities in the car while commuting that maybe used

817
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 3: to take place in the home or somewhere else. And

818
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 3: then finally last the fifth finding here is quote productivity

819
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 3: gains and rationalization achieved by new technology does not generate

820
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 3: free time, but rather heightens standards. So I think the

821
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 3: illustration here as you imagine some new labor saving device

822
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 3: that makes it easier to get your work done faster,

823
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 3: or makes it easier to clean your home. Maybe you

824
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,439
Speaker 3: get a new appliance that does some kind of chore

825
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 3: for you that you used to have to do with

826
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 3: your hands. Does this generate more new free time in

827
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 3: your life? The answer is generally no. Instead, it increases

828
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 3: how much people report that they are expected to accomplish whatever,

829
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 3: you know, whether that's like paid work or housework or whatever.

830
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 3: So there's just sort of like an increasing standard of

831
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 3: what you feel you have to do.

832
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the robot is cleaning the floor now,

833
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: and now I owe it to the universe to work

834
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 2: more to make up for like my laziness or something,

835
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, like sometimes there's kind of

836
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 2: this weird like element of guilt associated to it, you know,

837
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 2: like if I'm not working, if I'm not fixing something,

838
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 2: then I'm somehow like cheating the universe somehow.

839
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 3: So there are some other sections of this paper that

840
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 3: are kind of interesting, but I'm not really going to

841
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 3: get into stuff about like rhythm analysis and relationship of

842
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 3: like biological rhythms to time use in life and stuff.

843
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 3: But one of Panther's points here is that while the

844
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 3: Tofflers may have gotten plenty of things wrong, their core

845
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 3: predictions about coming changes in time use are essentially borne

846
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 3: out by the empirical research. They were pretty good at

847
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 3: predicting what was going to happen with time, the increasing

848
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 3: fragmentation of our time, increasing multitasking, increasing irregularity, shortening of

849
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 3: time intervals for doing things that this is basically what

850
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 3: has been found by most of the research on this subject.

851
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 3: Our time use has become more irregular, more fragmented, and

852
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 3: more overlapped. And this it does correspond roughly with people

853
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 3: saying that they feel more hurried and stressed out about time.

854
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 3: And I think it's quite plausible that changes in technology,

855
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 3: and then downstream from that, changes in the economy, downstream

856
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 3: changes in culture, the culture of work and of home

857
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 3: life and all that are plausibly to blame for this. Now, interestingly,

858
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 3: here the author does point out one thing about these

859
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 3: time you studies that they do think that the Toffler's

860
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 3: got wrong. So Panser says, quote on one point, Toafler

861
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 3: was clearly wrong, according to our present knowledge. He expected

862
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 3: the society of urgency would kill human interaction and in

863
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 3: particular lead to a weakening of the position of the family,

864
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,720
Speaker 3: the home, the children, and the spouse. In fact, however,

865
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 3: and rather surprisingly, both time you studies and value studies

866
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,280
Speaker 3: conducted over the past few decades tell us about distinct

867
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 3: growth of family and home centeredness in the Western world.

868
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,760
Speaker 3: And then a number of studies are cited here. Furthermore,

869
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 3: the new information technology has not moved time use away

870
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 3: from the home either. It has done the opposite. So

871
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 3: I thought that was really interesting. The Tofflers thought that

872
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,760
Speaker 3: the technological environment of the super industrial age would weaken

873
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 3: family connections and get people to spend more and more

874
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 3: time coming and going outside the home. Empirically, people are

875
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 3: spending more time at home than ever. Perhaps it did

876
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 3: weaken some relationships, Like I think there might be some

877
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 3: research indicating a weakening of friendships outside the home and

878
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 3: maybe made people less likely to see friends in places

879
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 3: outside the home. And maybe now people instead are spending

880
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 3: more of their free time like at home with the

881
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 3: internet instead of going out and seeing friends and doing

882
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 3: things with friends. But I thought that was interesting that

883
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 3: it didn't change, It didn't weaken the home based relationships

884
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 3: the way they.

885
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 2: Predicted, right right, That is interesting.

886
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 3: But in the end of this paper, Panther says that

887
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 3: the empirical studies on time use show that Tofler was

888
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 3: mostly correct about our time quote. In the future, if

889
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 3: we believe in Toafler, many of our repetitive everyday life

890
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 3: routines will disappear as our weekly rhythm of work breaks

891
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 3: up with the new communication technology accelerating our pace rather

892
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 3: than relaxing it. The duration and number of episodes, their

893
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 3: overlaps and mutual couplings, their construction and placement in time

894
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 3: and space, and opportunities to affect the placement of activities

895
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 3: are to the greatest extent, well being issues. So pointing

896
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 3: out again that like this isn't just sort of like

897
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 3: neutral information, that like studies about how we use our time,

898
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 3: the quality of time spent, and how time relates to say,

899
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 3: our expectations about time use. This affects our quality of

900
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 3: life and our mental health.

901
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are. It kind of comes back to this

902
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 2: idea that, yeah, that we we are adaptive, but we

903
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: are not so adaptive that we can change in you know,

904
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,839
Speaker 2: in real time to anything like there are there are

905
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 2: hard limits in place. It would seem to just what

906
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 2: we can roll with as as creatures.

907
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 3: So I feel somewhat vindicated in that one of the

908
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 3: parts of the book that felt strongest to me does

909
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 3: seem to be in an at least large part born

910
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 3: out by subsequent empirical research. But we could come back

911
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 3: to the submarine schools and the organ transplant murder gangs.

912
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 2: Oh yes, the modular temporary humans yeah, and social yeah. Yeah,

913
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 2: There's a lot lot more to talk about in that vein,

914
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 2: and and also in the next episode, I do want

915
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 2: to talk a bit about some of the maladaptive coping

916
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 2: strategies that they lay out in the book, which I

917
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 2: thought we're very insightful, like talking about, well, how do

918
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 2: we how do we find ourselves or potentially find ourselves

919
00:50:55,360 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 2: dealing with future shock without actually dealing with it in

920
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 2: an actual beneficial manner. So yeah, we'll be back with

921
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 2: at least a third episode on future shock, and yeah,

922
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: in the meantime, we'll look forward to hearing from anyone

923
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 2: out there if you have thoughts on this general concept

924
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 2: or some of these related topics we've talked about, like

925
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 2: time usage, leisure, activity, and so forth.

926
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 3: I agree that the section about the coping strategies is interesting. Yeah,

927
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 3: I'm excited to get into that.

928
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: All right, Well we'll go ahead and close it out here,

929
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: but yeah, right in, we'd love to hear from you.

930
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 2: Just a reminder that we are primarily a science podcast

931
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 2: with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. But you know,

932
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 2: we got a lot, a lot of days to fill

933
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 2: up with content these days, constantly working, going from one

934
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 2: topic to the next, So we've got listener mail on Mondays,

935
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 2: we have a short form Monster Factor artifact on Wednesdays,

936
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 2: and on Fridays, we set aside most serious concerns to

937
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 2: just talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema.

938
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

939
00:51:58,200 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

940
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,280
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

941
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

942
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

943
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

944
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

945
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

946
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.