Speaker 1: And that's what you really missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2: And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 3: Welcome to and that's what you're in this podcast. It's
Speaker 3: Jenna without Kevin.
Speaker 1: Boohoo.
Speaker 3: We're missing Kevin right now. He's actually deep in tech
Speaker 3: at spelling Bees. So I took this one. I actually
Speaker 3: stole this one from him because we have one of
Speaker 3: my childhood heroes, Adam Pascal is here.
Speaker 1: We one and only Roger from Wren.
Speaker 3: Also, one of my other favorite musicals he started was Aida,
Speaker 3: and then he also was in Chess at the Royal
Speaker 3: Albert Hall, which ironically out now Liah is in New York,
Speaker 3: so full Star called there and we have a really
Speaker 3: lovely conversation. He's a wonderful human being and I'm just
Speaker 3: so please.
Speaker 1: That I got to meet him and interview him by myself. Sorry, Kevin,
Speaker 1: enjoy the interview, Saudi. How are you great?
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good? Thank you, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry Kevin couldn't.
Speaker 3: Be here, but he sends his thanks. And we just
Speaker 3: watched the movie yesterday, so.
Speaker 2: Oh you did? OK?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: Think I've seen it literally since I went to the premiere.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Wow, that's a long time ago. Well,
Speaker 3: I'm so excited for you to be here. I have
Speaker 3: to say, if you told like fourteen year old Jenna
Speaker 3: that she'd be talking to Adam Pascal, I think I
Speaker 3: would have probably like thrown a shoe at myself or
Speaker 3: something like that.
Speaker 2: So that's very sweet if you think you.
Speaker 3: Are just an icon in the Broadway history books, and
Speaker 3: thank you.
Speaker 1: We are just wildly talented and just so I was
Speaker 1: like yesterday I was.
Speaker 3: Saying you, you and Wren and all the pieces that
Speaker 3: you were a part of like really raised me.
Speaker 1: It's so very exciting to chat with you.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. And I can tell you that from
Speaker 2: my own experience, I had a very similar upbringing with
Speaker 2: the movies of Hair and the Rocky Horror Pictures Show.
Speaker 2: So both of those movies for me were you know,
Speaker 2: And it's really it's great because it's such a full
Speaker 2: circle moment for me because because I had that experience
Speaker 2: with those shows, and specifically we're talking about the movie.
Speaker 2: So I've never seen Hair on stage. I've seen the
Speaker 2: movie about one hundred and fifty times, but I've never
Speaker 2: seen it on stage. And Rocky Horror, same thing. I've
Speaker 2: only ever seen the movie, but seen it so many times,
Speaker 2: and both of those movies had such a visceral effect
Speaker 2: on me as a kid growing up, yeah, and having
Speaker 2: never seen them on stage. And so then cut to
Speaker 2: the movie, the Rent movie. So the Rent we had
Speaker 2: a very similar well I'll backtrack, So a lot of
Speaker 2: kids coming up to me who have only ever seen
Speaker 2: the movie and they've never seen on stage, and they
Speaker 2: are affected by the film in the way that I
Speaker 2: was affected by Hair.
Speaker 3: Right, So there's like a touch point there, something that
Speaker 3: you can understand what they're yeah, holding on to.
Speaker 2: And both of those movies had a very similar trajectory
Speaker 2: in that they were both widely popular on Broadway. Then
Speaker 2: they were transferred to film and had sort of moderate
Speaker 2: success and divided the fans of like, you know, some
Speaker 2: people loved it, some people hated it. Same with critics
Speaker 2: and all the stuff. So it was a very similar,
Speaker 2: very similar reaction by the fan base that Hairhead.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Well, I we'll definitely get into more of the Rent movie,
Speaker 3: but I just wanted to backtrack a little bit. I
Speaker 3: see you're from Woodbury. I am also from Long Island
Speaker 3: as well. So hell, yeah, I'm from East Meadow, of course. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And I went to Holy Trinity High School, which had
Speaker 3: a wonderful theater department at the time, and it was
Speaker 3: just like we did a million shows a year, and
Speaker 3: I just yeah, Long Islander, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've been back there a lot. I'm actually
Speaker 2: I've been teaching at Long Island University and directing the
Speaker 2: show at Long Island University and so wow, my sister
Speaker 2: still lives at Huntington. I was just there, yeah to go,
Speaker 2: So yeah, love them funny.
Speaker 3: So you started out more as a music artist versus
Speaker 3: like a stage actor, is that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah. So I grew up on Long Island at
Speaker 2: in New York City, and I grew up playing in
Speaker 2: rock bands. Wow, yeah, I was. I spent you know,
Speaker 2: my my high school years, my college years playing in bands,
Speaker 2: playing all the all the clubs in the city, and
Speaker 2: you know, doing that whole circuit and trying to get
Speaker 2: a record deal and trying to become a rock star.
Speaker 2: You know. That was that was what I was focused
Speaker 2: on in those years, and and theater was not something
Speaker 2: that I had ever considered as a career path because
Speaker 2: quite frankly, for people like me at the time, it
Speaker 2: wasn't a career path right back in the mid nineties,
Speaker 2: you know, there wasn't a plethora of people that kind
Speaker 2: of came out of nowhere and didn't have any training
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden they're on Broadway, Like I
Speaker 2: might have been the first one. So you know, like
Speaker 2: so it just never occurred that that that would be
Speaker 2: something I could pursue. And until it happened that I realized,
Speaker 2: oh wow, this is but but you know, it's it's
Speaker 2: it became so it became such a logical extension to
Speaker 2: who I was, you know, and and and and it
Speaker 2: and also the way that I sing. I used to
Speaker 2: get from guys and bands all the time they're like,
Speaker 2: stop singing with amos vibrato, Like I'm sorry, man, that's
Speaker 2: how I sing, you know, I think you know, I
Speaker 2: always had you know, it was always that kind of
Speaker 2: rock but sort of you know, I don't want to
Speaker 2: say Broadway sounding, but you know, sort of a bigger
Speaker 2: sounding voice, you know, because those are the guys that
Speaker 2: I was attracted to as growing up as as as singers.
Speaker 2: You know, all of these you know, high tenor and
Speaker 2: I'm not a high tenor but all of these you
Speaker 2: know high tenor Freddy Likedy exactly for Mercury and Steve
Speaker 2: Perry and and you know Lou Graham and all of
Speaker 2: these guys that were my heroes, you know, and I
Speaker 2: just I just screamed my head off for hours a
Speaker 2: day for years, you know, trying to sound like them.
Speaker 3: What a perfect departure, I guess or transition into Rent, though, yes,
Speaker 3: you know, what a perfect score and like what music
Speaker 3: to sing? So how did how did Rent come to you?
Speaker 3: And what was that whole journey?
Speaker 2: Like? So, Idina Menzielle and I grew up down the
Speaker 2: street from each other. She is also a ssiasid High
Speaker 2: school graduate, Right.
Speaker 1: I forgot about that?
Speaker 2: Yes, so so I. Dina and her boyfriend at the time, Glenn,
Speaker 2: she had been cast in the show and they and
Speaker 2: and so she knew that they were having trouble h
Speaker 2: casting the role of Roger, and so they thought of
Speaker 2: me and they were like, he's a rock singer whatever.
Speaker 2: They called me up. They were like, a, Dina's doing
Speaker 2: the show. It's gonna run like four weeks off Broadway,
Speaker 2: and is it something you'd never be interested in auditioning for?
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, I've never auditioned for anything before.
Speaker 2: What do I do? They They're like, I think you
Speaker 2: just go down with your guitar and sing a song.
Speaker 2: And I was like, all right, sure. You know, I
Speaker 2: had just broken up with the band that I'd been
Speaker 2: with all of those years, and I was like looking
Speaker 2: for my next thing. I certainly never thought that, you know,
Speaker 2: I always thought my next thing would just be another band.
Speaker 2: But that's you know, but this opportunity came along and
Speaker 2: it just, you know, one thing just led to another
Speaker 2: and and it all of you know, I have four
Speaker 2: auditions in that week, and then by the end of
Speaker 2: the week, you know, they had given me the part.
Speaker 2: And you know, I often get asked like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: what what was your reaction when you got cast? Is
Speaker 2: Roger and Rent And I have to remind people that, like,
Speaker 2: it's not.
Speaker 1: Later exactly.
Speaker 2: My reaction was how am I going to keep my job?
Speaker 2: How many go to rehearsals and keep this job?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: So right, yeah, I mean there's something to that, right,
Speaker 3: Like people always ask us like did you know it
Speaker 3: was special?
Speaker 1: Or like, what was it like getting cast in the show?
Speaker 3: And you know, you can only hope that something special
Speaker 3: happens with it, but that's not really what you're hoping for.
Speaker 1: You're hoping for a really.
Speaker 3: Good time and to have a great job and you know,
Speaker 3: to do good work.
Speaker 2: And lots of experiences are very special. They don't necessarily
Speaker 2: go on to be huge successes, but they're still there.
Speaker 2: They can be equally memorable as memorable and special, you know.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 3: Now I'm curious, though, like, because you you were there
Speaker 3: from the beginning and the inception of this thing that
Speaker 3: is now rent, Like, what was it like hearing that
Speaker 3: music for the first time and needing Jonathan, and like
Speaker 3: who was he at this point to you? Like, because
Speaker 3: so few people get to talk about him and experience him,
Speaker 3: because you know, it was so tragic.
Speaker 2: But my, my, I, as you can imagine, I get
Speaker 2: asked this often and my answer is usually disappointing to people,
Speaker 2: which is that I didn't know Jonathan that well. I
Speaker 2: knew John I was cast in the show in you know,
Speaker 2: the December of ninety five, so at the end, and
Speaker 2: Jonathan passed away in January, right six, so I only
Speaker 2: knew him for like four weeks, you know, and during
Speaker 2: most of that time we were in rehearsal and we
Speaker 2: were working, so there wasn't a lot of socializing going on.
Speaker 2: So I unfortunately, like everybody else, right out on his presence,
Speaker 2: you know, in my in all of our lives, and
Speaker 2: so you know, the few times I sat with him
Speaker 2: and talked with him were great, and he was a
Speaker 2: lovely guy. I wish I knew him better, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 2: like everybody else wish they knew you know.
Speaker 1: And yeah, no, that makes total sense.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm I'm curious though, like because he became
Speaker 3: so he became so infamous after for his his work
Speaker 3: and his art, and you guys got to keep that alive, right,
Speaker 3: and you got to almost see him as the figure
Speaker 3: that he never got to see himself as. What was
Speaker 3: like that journey like after and the successive rent after
Speaker 3: you guys opened and you went a Broadway and you
Speaker 3: know that kind of like momentum went right, I mean.
Speaker 2: It was, it was. It was so much bittersweet irony,
Speaker 2: you know, like like exactly, like especially with my character
Speaker 2: in particular, because my character was the musician and you know,
Speaker 2: and my character was the character who's you know, one
Speaker 2: desire in the show, in the story was to create
Speaker 2: some something wonderful. He wanted to write a song that
Speaker 2: people would remember after he was gone, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: and that was what he was striving for. That's what
Speaker 2: kept him, That's what kept him motivated, and that's what
Speaker 2: kept Jonathan motivated. And it was it was the show
Speaker 2: that Jonathan wrote. And then he ended up in many
Speaker 2: ways living that well or not living through that experience,
Speaker 2: you know, by but but but he but he achieved
Speaker 2: what he wanted to achieve. He just didn't see it,
Speaker 2: you know. But but but again, if you think about
Speaker 2: the character, the whole thing was what to achieve it
Speaker 2: after I'm gone, you know what I mean? He literally
Speaker 2: did that. And then for me personally, you know, I
Speaker 2: always wanted to be a songwriter and an artist and
Speaker 2: a singer and all of those things. And I, through
Speaker 2: that character and that song, also achieved the things that
Speaker 2: I was striving for by by now being connected so
Speaker 2: closely with that show and that music and specifically again
Speaker 2: that song about what he's saying. So it's it's there's
Speaker 2: so much sort of intercellular connection between the show, me, Jonathan's,
Speaker 2: that song, all of that stuff. It's it's it's it's
Speaker 2: been I've thought about it a lot over the year.
Speaker 1: I'm sure, I'm sure.
Speaker 3: And then even like the the tic tic boom of
Speaker 3: it all, where you get to see that journey, but
Speaker 3: we didn't get to see him in that time. Like
Speaker 3: it's just it's really, I don't know, it's very it's
Speaker 3: beautiful and tragic and special in all the ways. And
Speaker 3: you were just so deeply connected with it, so so fascinating.
Speaker 2: But you asked before when I thought about the music,
Speaker 2: you know, when I first heard the music, I have
Speaker 2: to be honest, I was so the first thing I
Speaker 2: heard was so I went and auditioned, and and and
Speaker 2: after my first audition, they gave me, Bernie Telsey gave
Speaker 2: me a cassette copy of one song, Glory to go
Speaker 2: home and learn. And it was it was Jonathan Larson
Speaker 2: singing it, you know, and on his little t and
Speaker 2: Jonathan was not a great singer, and so and I was.
Speaker 2: I was kind of underwhelmed. I was like, this is
Speaker 2: a rock musical, quite so, and I and and and
Speaker 2: then I remember, of course, and then it grew on me,
Speaker 2: and once I started to sing it, it started to
Speaker 2: make sense to me, you know. So yeah, on an
Speaker 2: emotional and musical level. But and then I remember starting rehearsals.
Speaker 2: The first song we learned together was Seasons of Love,
Speaker 2: and I was like, these are the weirdest lyrics, all
Speaker 2: these numbers and all this stuff like it was so
Speaker 2: it was so weird to me.
Speaker 1: And then you heard love you whatever You're like.
Speaker 2: I was like, what is all this stuff? They literally
Speaker 2: gave us like a you know, an information sheet so
Speaker 2: that we would know who all of these people that
Speaker 2: we were talking about.
Speaker 1: That's funny. Yeah, the dramaturgy of it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I didn't have these references, you know, I
Speaker 2: didn't know what they were. And so, yes, the music
Speaker 2: it was it was interesting. Look, I came from a
Speaker 2: world of you know, certainly at that time, this is
Speaker 2: mid nineties, I was I was head over into Sound
Speaker 2: Garden and Pearl Jam and you know, yeah chains and
Speaker 2: all of that stuff like that was the rock music
Speaker 2: that I was listening to at the time. So when
Speaker 2: I heard rock musical, of course, I was expecting to
Speaker 2: hear something along those lines. And clearly that's not the
Speaker 2: case now.
Speaker 3: But there's just so the show is so beautifully dynamic
Speaker 3: and newtin from the sung dialogue, you know of the
Speaker 3: the opera of it all, but then there's these like
Speaker 3: beautifully melodic songs and you know, like what you own
Speaker 3: and you know, I'll cover you all. It's just it's
Speaker 3: absolutely brilliant and obviously everybody you know, that's why it's
Speaker 3: such a massive hit that lives on forever. But you
Speaker 3: guys really did like reinvent what Broadway could be for
Speaker 3: a lot of artists and a lot of producers and
Speaker 3: creatives to say, like, oh wow, like Broadway doesn't have
Speaker 3: to be Rogers and Hammerstein, it doesn't have to be
Speaker 3: you know, these insanely classical, you know, traditional music. So
Speaker 3: I'm curious, like that must have been very exciting for
Speaker 3: you as a rock artist and a rock fan, and
Speaker 3: but what would do you remember what that was like
Speaker 3: in the time when when you guys were around and
Speaker 3: when it started to really like some momentum started to hit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's only in hindsight that you can
Speaker 2: see the effect that it happened on the art form
Speaker 2: and everything that came after us. At the time, it was,
Speaker 2: you know, there was so much going on so fast,
Speaker 2: all at once. You know, I'm sure you can ask
Speaker 2: any of any of the kids that were in Hamilton,
Speaker 2: you know, and like it's just there's so much happening
Speaker 2: every night, every night, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 2: then on top of that, of course, you know, Jonathan
Speaker 2: died and so like you know, am envious of all
Speaker 2: those kids in Hamilton is that they didn't have this
Speaker 2: looming black cloud over their experience in the same way
Speaker 2: that we, you know, and the maybe self inflicted burden
Speaker 2: of need to feel to carry that weight and that
Speaker 2: message and Jonathan and what he was trying to do
Speaker 2: and all of that stuff. You know, like we internally
Speaker 2: that we really felt like we were the champions of that.
Speaker 2: And you know, and I tell you know, I work
Speaker 2: with so many students and so many kids, especially working
Speaker 2: on that show, and I always say to them, look,
Speaker 2: it is not your responsibility to carry any burden, to
Speaker 2: to to put forth any message. It's your job to
Speaker 2: have fun and tell a story. If an audience going
Speaker 2: to get a message from it, great, but it's not
Speaker 2: your job to cram it down their throat or feel
Speaker 2: like it's your responsibility to carry that because it's not
Speaker 2: for actors. And you know, and I wish I could
Speaker 2: have told the old me that thirty years ago.
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, that's profound fun fact.
Speaker 3: I was actually opening on Broadway the same year you
Speaker 3: guys open event.
Speaker 1: I was doing The King and I Danille Simon in six.
Speaker 2: Okay, So okay, I'm gonna tell you a funny story.
Speaker 2: Then you'll appreciate this. It's not my story, it's Anthony Repp, Okay,
Speaker 2: but it's one of my favorite stories, and I always
Speaker 2: make him tell it. So when Anthony was a little kid,
Speaker 2: he he was in The King and I on the
Speaker 2: national tour. I think it was like one of his
Speaker 2: first jobs. So now I don't I'm not familiar with
Speaker 2: the show. So I'm going to explain something to you,
Speaker 2: and you're gonna know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 2: At the end of the show, the King is laid
Speaker 2: out and I and I dying or he's dead or
Speaker 2: whatever it is.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's died.
Speaker 2: Yes, And a little kid comes comes and says something
Speaker 2: like mother, the ship is something like this. Some kid
Speaker 2: says something right, So that was yes, right, yeah, So
Speaker 2: he comes out to deliver his line and he goes
Speaker 2: mother and you'l Brenner is on the tour. J'l Brenner,
Speaker 2: who's lying dead goes Louder.
Speaker 3: Ah, oh my, that is brilliant.
Speaker 1: That's really good. That's really good. Thank you for that. Wow.
Speaker 1: He was the son of Yeah, that's right. Oh how exciting.
Speaker 3: Okay, So the movie, I'm curious, Uh, this was a
Speaker 3: long time after the rise of the show and everything,
Speaker 3: and I'm curious, like, what your thoughts, what, how did
Speaker 3: the movie? How was it presented to you guys, And
Speaker 3: what was the process of like revisiting that in the
Speaker 3: screen form and just the experience overall and the movie
Speaker 3: just like yeah, so as.
Speaker 2: You can imagine, very quickly, as soon as the show
Speaker 2: became popular, talk of a movie became a subject. You know,
Speaker 2: the movie, the movie. Is there gonna be a movie?
Speaker 2: Is there gonna be a movie? At some point early on,
Speaker 2: and it was in the late nineties, somebody had written
Speaker 2: a script and Spike Lee had it, and Spike Lee
Speaker 2: was going to direct it. Wow, But he didn't want
Speaker 2: any of us in it, and so it was gonna
Speaker 2: be some other version. And I always heard rumors that
Speaker 2: there was gonna be like justin Timberlake, is gonna play
Speaker 2: Roger and Christine everywhere? Is gonna play Beaming Like I
Speaker 2: don't know, if any it usually happened. That's actually true,
Speaker 2: but those, of course were the rumors at the time.
Speaker 2: But anyway, that whole thing just disappeared and went away.
Speaker 2: And and you know, literally cut to two thousand and
Speaker 2: five or four or whenever it was, and I get
Speaker 2: a call from my agent saying, the Rent movie is happening.
Speaker 2: Chris Columbus is directing it, and he's very interested in
Speaker 2: having you know, as many of the original cast as
Speaker 2: he can go meet, yeah, you know, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: So I went and went and met with him, and
Speaker 2: he was just lovely and just the biggest Rent fan
Speaker 2: and super excited, and he hired me, you know, and
Speaker 2: and I mean it was it was really exciting. It
Speaker 2: was so much fun to be able to bring it
Speaker 2: to the screen, you know. Anyway, it was you know,
Speaker 2: of course we missed some of the original cast members
Speaker 2: that weren't there. Daphne wasn't there or whatever, but they
Speaker 2: they did a wonderful job of, you know, bringing on
Speaker 2: Rosario and Tracy Toms and it felt very comfortable and
Speaker 2: natural and doing those scenes. Doing all of those scenes
Speaker 2: on screen was very similar to what we all did
Speaker 2: on stage. You know, I I would venture to say
Speaker 2: I did pretty much the same performance on screen as
Speaker 2: I did on stage. You know, you make adjustments for
Speaker 2: camera and lighting, and you know, make technical adjustments, but
Speaker 2: the performance was essentially the same.
Speaker 1: It really was.
Speaker 3: And it was so nice to see most of you guys,
Speaker 3: a majority of the cast there, because I feel like
Speaker 3: a lot of the time when they do Hollywood, you know,
Speaker 3: a movie from a stage production, they often do recast
Speaker 3: it and you're hearing and sometimes I can be very
Speaker 3: refreshing and you can hear new voices and a new
Speaker 3: take on the character. But for Ren, because it was
Speaker 3: so iconic, I guess, you know, there was something about
Speaker 3: it that I was like, I don't think I want
Speaker 3: to hear anybody else do this in this rendition, which
Speaker 3: is so nice that you guys were able to do.
Speaker 1: That was I'm curious about.
Speaker 3: Like the the removal of the opera and the obviously
Speaker 3: you know, the dialogue and bringing that dialogue to life
Speaker 3: without singing.
Speaker 1: It was that weird for you guys.
Speaker 3: Did you have any part of say, And I'm just
Speaker 3: curious because on one hand, I was like, I think
Speaker 3: the part of the magic is the opera right of it,
Speaker 3: and then on the other hand, like, yeah, you have
Speaker 3: to make adjustments for screen and that I just I.
Speaker 2: Think, you know, I have my feelings about the movie,
Speaker 2: but that I think worked great. You know, like I
Speaker 2: I don't think that that was an issue. I think
Speaker 2: it was the right choice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know I.
Speaker 2: Think that that. Yeah, I think it was the right choice.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't. It didn't feel strange at all because
Speaker 2: we because the numbers were still the numbers, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, And so there was these added scenes
Speaker 2: and there was a lot of added dialogue and stuff,
Speaker 2: and look, you know, it was it was an experiment
Speaker 2: from from from the top. Like Chris didn't go in
Speaker 2: there going Okay, I know exactly what I'm doing. Really
Speaker 2: every day it was like we would have them, not
Speaker 2: every day, but like often we would have meetings with
Speaker 2: Chris and he would say to us, and I think
Speaker 2: that the reason, one of the reasons he wanted us
Speaker 2: is because he wanted our input in terms in terms
Speaker 2: of how race because he either you know, yea. So
Speaker 2: we would sit down a lot and talk about how
Speaker 2: we were going to shoot the scene and you know
Speaker 2: what we you know, and it was a very collaborative process.
Speaker 2: He was so wonderful in in how he incorporated our thoughts,
Speaker 2: you know, into his decision making. You know, of course
Speaker 2: he was the final decider on everything that happened, but
Speaker 2: he wanted to know what we thought, you know, and
Speaker 2: that was really that was really great, you know, and
Speaker 2: and and we all very much appreciated that consideration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, definitely.
Speaker 3: It's just it's reminiscent of working on a TV show
Speaker 3: where you have guest directors weekly that come in and
Speaker 3: out of your house, and you know, these characters back
Speaker 3: front for you know, inside out, and they're coming in saying,
Speaker 3: you know, let me guide the ship, but also be respectful.
Speaker 1: Of the people who have been in this house forever.
Speaker 3: So there, I think there's a level that it's similar
Speaker 3: because you guys have done this before for a very
Speaker 3: long time and helped kind of the genesis of it,
Speaker 3: so that that definitely makes sense.
Speaker 2: There was a big dramatic scene that had a lot
Speaker 2: of dialogue and he ended up cutting it out of
Speaker 2: the movie, and I was like, oh man, that was
Speaker 2: the best scene. They might cut that.
Speaker 3: Out, but the second part of Goodbye Lhybe that's what Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's right.
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And also, look and Christmas Bells, you know,
Speaker 2: like Christmas Bells is my favorite number in the show.
Speaker 2: It's my favorite. It's my favorite number. And it's not
Speaker 2: in the movie. But quite frankly, like I didn't know
Speaker 2: what to do, Like, like the reason it's not in
Speaker 2: the movie is not because we shot it and then
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, this isn't working, let me cut
Speaker 2: it out. We never shot it. Nobody had any idea
Speaker 2: of what to do and had to shoot that number,
Speaker 2: and so it was like, it's not going to be
Speaker 2: in the movie. Yeah, And look, sometimes sometimes big changes
Speaker 2: happen in these things. I remember, you know, we were
Speaker 2: talking about Hair. The original ending of Hair was not
Speaker 2: how it ends in the movie. You know, Burger dies
Speaker 2: at the end of the movie. Claude dies at the
Speaker 2: end of the show, right, I got to be honest
Speaker 2: with you, I thought the movie was so much more
Speaker 2: effective in that ending, in the way they did that.
Speaker 2: I just thought I was like, oh my god, Burger,
Speaker 2: Like I just like, you know, I to that hit hard?
Speaker 2: So that hits so hard? It's hard?
Speaker 1: It does it does? What about Seasons of Love?
Speaker 3: Like, why did you guys move Seasons of Love to
Speaker 3: the top of the movie.
Speaker 2: I think's decision was because as it works great as
Speaker 2: an opening of the second act, but it's very theatrical,
Speaker 2: it's very of the stage, and it would have broken
Speaker 2: up the pace of the movie to all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: have this, this this performance on a stage of all
Speaker 2: of these you know, it just didn't have a place
Speaker 2: in the movie. The only place that really had was
Speaker 2: either at the beginning of the end the.
Speaker 1: End, right, Okay, no, no, I'm that makes sense. That's
Speaker 1: very enlightening.
Speaker 3: And you and Anthony have had a long journey together
Speaker 3: and now are performing shows together at like fifty four
Speaker 3: below and beyond. Can you talk a little bit about like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, you guys have worked together.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, very soon after we stopped doing Rent together,
Speaker 2: one of the things I started doing was going out
Speaker 2: and performing you know, gigs and stuff on my own
Speaker 2: and whatever. And I would always I would get asked
Speaker 2: often like, hey, you and Anthony ever do anything together?
Speaker 2: You and Anthony. Now, Anthony had put out a solo record.
Speaker 2: He wasn't out gigging, but he had a solo record
Speaker 2: out that was great. Yeah, And I think I just
Speaker 2: went literally went to him one day and was like, hey,
Speaker 2: you want to do some gigs together. You know, I
Speaker 2: have some people that are interested. And he was like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: and like honestly, that's how it started. And we've done
Speaker 2: so many different kinds of shows together over the years,
Speaker 2: like you know, different types of performances. For a long time,
Speaker 2: we would do acoustic performances where I would do a
Speaker 2: set and he would do a set, and then we
Speaker 2: would do like, you know, maybe fifteen minutes together. What
Speaker 2: we hear past couple of years was, you know, we
Speaker 2: put a full band together and we decided, you know,
Speaker 2: let's just both be on stage the whole time like
Speaker 2: a rock It's not me, it's us the whole time.
Speaker 2: And that's been the most successful. All people want to
Speaker 2: see us together and.
Speaker 1: Here are right. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's been so much fun for us to to
Speaker 2: be able to do that and and and you know
Speaker 2: sort of present our arrangements of it. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of pop and rock stuff like it's it's not you know,
Speaker 2: it's not. As a matter of fact, I would say
Speaker 2: that theater stuff is the least of what we do.
Speaker 2: And you know it's a surprise to people, but the
Speaker 2: audiences end up loving it, you know, like we we
Speaker 2: we interweave things together so it all makes a cohesive evening.
Speaker 2: You know. It's not like we're just playing sort of
Speaker 2: random rock songs, you know what I mean, Like they
Speaker 2: all have like a reason. Yeah, and then they and
Speaker 2: that and that they connect in ways to Rent and
Speaker 2: things like that, so we try and tie it all in.
Speaker 1: That's exciting. I mean, I would want to see you guys.
Speaker 2: Oh you should come. We'll be back yeah January.
Speaker 3: Good, Okay, all right, we'll definitely come back. You've done
Speaker 3: a lot aita, I mean, jazz, It's crazy. Is Rent
Speaker 3: your favorite?
Speaker 1: Or do you have a favorite project that you've worked on?
Speaker 2: Rent is not my favorite? And only because it's the
Speaker 2: first thing I ever did, you know. Yeah, And you
Speaker 2: know I've had so many wonderful experiences since then. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't say it's any less than anything else, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. It's such it was such a unique experience,
Speaker 2: and that I could really everything I've done since Rent
Speaker 2: I could sort of compare against each other. But I
Speaker 2: don't really compare Rent to any of those things, because
Speaker 2: it's just such a unique inexperience and of course became
Speaker 2: so enormously successful. Right So, but you know, over the years,
Speaker 2: I love to laugh and I love to make people laugh,
Speaker 2: and I've really you know, I love doing the musical
Speaker 2: comedy stuff, you know, Disaster and something Rotten. And getting
Speaker 2: to do things like that, you know, have been so
Speaker 2: much even I just did Drag off Broadway, like, you know,
Speaker 2: getting to do these things, to me, that's what's been
Speaker 2: the most fun and the most exciting. And getting to
Speaker 2: learn from, you know, my whole career, I've gotten to
Speaker 2: learn from so many amazing artists who are better at
Speaker 2: what they do than I am, you know, and so
Speaker 2: to watch them and you know, maybe not the singing part,
Speaker 2: but all the other stuff, you know. And so you know,
Speaker 2: I very much you know, absorbed what everybody was offering
Speaker 2: just by being around it, you know, like and I
Speaker 2: continue to do that in my life wherever whatever I
Speaker 2: venture into, if it's something new, I don't want to
Speaker 2: do it alone. I want to do it with somebody
Speaker 2: who's already done it and is really good.
Speaker 3: At you know, right right right right, you know, sure
Speaker 3: did you always have a really good voice or did
Speaker 3: it take a lot of training or like where did
Speaker 3: the voice come from?
Speaker 1: Where was the voice? Discovering?
Speaker 2: It happened, you know, I discovered, you know, at an
Speaker 2: early age. The earliest things I can remember singing were
Speaker 2: like Barry Manilow songs in the seventies as a little kid,
Speaker 2: you know, I was six seven years old. And then
Speaker 2: I remember I remember discovering like Elton John and Billy
Speaker 2: Joel like those songs when I was little and singing
Speaker 2: along to them, Simon and Garfunkel. I remember very specific
Speaker 2: things from when I was very young, and ironically enough,
Speaker 2: the cast album of a chorus line, you know, things
Speaker 2: that my parents would play in the car, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, that absorb and to this day, that's
Speaker 2: my favorite cast album. I've never seen, you know, but
Speaker 2: I can. I can sing every song I know everywhere.
Speaker 1: It is great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so so I just started singing and realized
Speaker 2: that it felt good, and I thought it sounded pretty good,
Speaker 2: you know. And then when I was like ten or
Speaker 2: eleven years old and MTV debuted and sort of that
Speaker 2: wave of like heavy metal bands that came along in
Speaker 2: the early eighties, Like I was completely entranced by all
Speaker 2: that stuff, and I started to sing along to those songs.
Speaker 2: You know, these rock bands like Iron Maiden and a
Speaker 2: guy named Ronnie James Dio and you know, all of
Speaker 2: these like powerhouse hard rock singers that I just you
Speaker 2: know that those were the guys I wanted to be.
Speaker 2: Those were my heroes, and I spent you know, I
Speaker 2: didn't have any formal training, but I would say I
Speaker 2: practiced as much as anybody ever practice, because I would
Speaker 2: sit up in my room for hours and hours a
Speaker 2: day singing onto those records, you know, not as much
Speaker 2: practice as anything else, you know. And and it's because
Speaker 2: those guys, because they sounded the way they sounded, you know.
Speaker 2: Dickinson from Iron Maiden is probably the single biggest influence
Speaker 2: on my voice, I think, certainly, very those very formative
Speaker 2: early teenage years, you know. And he has a very
Speaker 2: strong operatic sound, and I wanted to do with sound
Speaker 2: like him, and so that's where I developed. I think
Speaker 2: a lot of that sound. And and it's only by
Speaker 2: sheer luck. I think that my voice developed in a
Speaker 2: in a healthy way, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to ask about that, because you're
Speaker 3: screaming a lot of the time, but you can't be
Speaker 3: actually screaming, right, You're healthily screaming.
Speaker 2: Right, I've developed you know what I couldn't. I couldn't
Speaker 2: describe it to you. I couldn't tell you what proper
Speaker 2: technique is, only to tell you that I know I
Speaker 2: have it because because I've never lost my voice and
Speaker 2: I've never had any vocal problems.
Speaker 1: That is crazy.
Speaker 2: And as I you know, as my career had gone
Speaker 2: has gone on, I've certainly learned by being on stage
Speaker 2: and doing theater how to take care voice in a
Speaker 2: way that works for me, you know, you know, And
Speaker 2: I work with the little vocal trainer, which I love,
Speaker 2: that little thing that you know, like you blow into
Speaker 2: I'm into it. That thing has changed my life. But
Speaker 2: you know, I've I've been very lucky in that in
Speaker 2: that I know how to do what I do.
Speaker 1: Unreal, unreal. Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't know, your placement must be just perfect,
Speaker 3: you just must have instinctally found that placement for yourself.
Speaker 2: Well. Also, I do a lot of experimenting with my
Speaker 2: voice and with trying to figure out how to make
Speaker 2: certain sounds and hit certain notes and hit them in
Speaker 2: certain ways. You know, that's important for singers to do,
Speaker 2: is to go in a room by yourself and make
Speaker 2: crazy sounds and make crazy noises, and try and do
Speaker 2: crazy things with your voice, and see what what you're
Speaker 2: capable of, See what hurts, what doesn't hurt? See you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? And so that's how I have
Speaker 2: figured out how to do a lot of this stuff
Speaker 2: is just by playing around with my voice like a
Speaker 2: like an instrument. You know what, what am I capable
Speaker 2: of doing? You know what? What can what can I achieve?
Speaker 2: How can I continue to push it? You know? My
Speaker 2: upper and my lower you know what I mean? So
Speaker 2: much of my formative years trying to push the upper
Speaker 2: that I ignored the you know, the lower, my lower register,
Speaker 2: and and and it's only in the last ten or
Speaker 2: so years that I'm like.
Speaker 4: I like to stay lower now kind it yeah and
Speaker 4: so but but but it's it's been, it's been, and
Speaker 4: it always is a process of experimentation with me with
Speaker 4: my voice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I love that you're just still experimenting
Speaker 3: and still learning as an artist, you know, even after
Speaker 3: your incredible like career and all the things that you're doing.
Speaker 3: And it sounds like you're teaching a lot and so
Speaker 3: you're imparting a lot of this like learning wisdom on
Speaker 3: younger aspiring actors, Like what has that been like for you?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that that's that's the best thing
Speaker 2: I can offer is my wisdom at this point in
Speaker 2: having done this for you know, for decades. At this point,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not a trained singer and I'm not
Speaker 2: a trained actor, and so I can't I can't teach
Speaker 2: somebody technique. You know, I'm not a vocal technician. I
Speaker 2: can't I can't make somebody a good singer. I can't
Speaker 2: tell them what to do. And because I don't know,
Speaker 2: I've never done it right. So that's not my thing.
Speaker 2: So and and there's a lot of people that are
Speaker 2: really good at that and by all means do that.
Speaker 2: I think what I offer as a teacher is just
Speaker 2: is just knowledge wisdom of the of the life and
Speaker 2: the world that a lot of these kids are striving for.
Speaker 2: I think what I can offer them is to the
Speaker 2: truth about what that is, the truth about what that
Speaker 2: has been and what it is now and where it's going.
Speaker 2: You know, it's very important for kids to who are
Speaker 2: getting into show business. I have two sons and you know,
Speaker 2: in their early twenties and they're both in show business
Speaker 2: in one per or the other, you know, And it's
Speaker 2: it's super important to see that what has all had,
Speaker 2: what's come before us, is not what's in front of us.
Speaker 2: And you can't you can't go about things in the
Speaker 2: way that it's always been done. The way it's always
Speaker 2: been done is over, and we are all collectively now
Speaker 2: figuring out how it's going to continue to be done,
Speaker 2: you know. And I think that it's very important for
Speaker 2: people to realize that and to prepare for that, and
Speaker 2: to know again, know what the realities of a life
Speaker 2: in theater is like, you know. And I assure you
Speaker 2: it's it's it's not glamorous because and look, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean it's you know, you're an artist, you're an actor,
Speaker 2: you know what it's like. My perspective has always been,
Speaker 2: my job is not to be a singer or an actor.
Speaker 2: My job is to not quit this horrible business. That's
Speaker 2: my job. The payoff is what I get to work,
Speaker 2: is when I actually get a job and I get
Speaker 2: to make some money and I get to do this
Speaker 2: thing that I love to do. That's not the job,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. The job is not quitting
Speaker 2: to me. That's why I always felt That's the way
Speaker 2: I always sort of looked at it, is like, that's
Speaker 2: that's the job, and it's a hard job, and you.
Speaker 1: Know that, and so no, it's so hard, yeah, and.
Speaker 2: So and I think it's I think it's important for
Speaker 2: for for young artists to internalize that, you know, and
Speaker 2: that most of your time is going to be fighting.
Speaker 1: Yourself, knows, constant, fighting your.
Speaker 2: Ego, fighting your you know, your all of the it's
Speaker 2: that that's going to be what you're spending most of
Speaker 2: the time doing, you know. Yeah, and as an actor,
Speaker 2: the most frustrating thing as an actor. And I'm so
Speaker 2: grateful that I that I play an instrument and that
Speaker 2: I sing. You know, I encourage actors who don't sing
Speaker 2: and don't play an instrument to do something where you
Speaker 2: can practice your creativity in your art by yourself. The
Speaker 2: thing about acting is that you can't do it in
Speaker 2: a vacuum like you can do any other art form.
Speaker 2: You know, you can sculpt, you can paint, you can
Speaker 2: write music, you can sing, you can play an instrument.
Speaker 2: You can do all of these things by yourself and
Speaker 2: get for them. You can dance, right, you can't do
Speaker 2: that with acting, you need an audience. It doesn't work
Speaker 2: in a va. It doesn't work alone, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. You can't stand there and look at yourself
Speaker 2: monologuing in a mirror and get any sense of satisfaction
Speaker 2: out of that, you know, like it just so, it's
Speaker 2: it's it's a very difficult profession to be and when
Speaker 2: that's the only thing you do because you very rarely
Speaker 2: get a sense of completion.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and then once you do, you're chasing the
Speaker 3: next one. So it's tough. I think that's why it
Speaker 3: lends to like what you were talking about in the
Speaker 3: future of this business and how you can create and
Speaker 3: teach these young people to create on their own, to
Speaker 3: get people together, to do things that fuel them, that
Speaker 3: keep them going, and don't get bitter and don't lose
Speaker 3: the love because in this business, after all these years,
Speaker 3: it's very difficult to find the joy in it because
Speaker 3: it is so difficult and challenge.
Speaker 2: And we're only again as actors specifically, the only validation
Speaker 2: you ever get is from other people, you know, like
Speaker 2: we're constantly chasing somebody else's validation of our art, where again,
Speaker 2: these other art forms you can go you know, what.
Speaker 2: I'm a good singer, I know it. I don't need
Speaker 2: anyone to tell me. Or I'm a great guitar player.
Speaker 2: I'm a great I don't need other people to tell
Speaker 2: me that, because I know I could sit in a
Speaker 2: room and do it and do it really well. You
Speaker 2: can't do that act and you need that response you
Speaker 2: need And so I tell people, like listen, forget about
Speaker 2: instruments and that stuff, that that's not something you're interested
Speaker 2: in doing. Do a puzzle, Go mow the lawn. Do
Speaker 2: things that you can do to completion where you finish it,
Speaker 2: you know it's done, you know, and you know, and
Speaker 2: you know you've done a good job, and you don't
Speaker 2: need somebody else's validation to tell you that. I think
Speaker 2: it's very important in life to have that. And as actors,
Speaker 2: you never get that, you know.
Speaker 1: You never get you know, Wow, what do you do
Speaker 1: to you?
Speaker 2: I mowed the lawn. I wish I could turn this
Speaker 2: somewhereund and show you my enormous law that I'm mow
Speaker 2: you know, and especially now I'm not kidding satisfying forward
Speaker 2: to mowing the lawn. It keeps me off my stupid phone.
Speaker 2: It keeps me off of social media. Yes, and it
Speaker 2: gives me these things that you know, So I do
Speaker 2: things like that, I do outdoor things, I chop would
Speaker 2: I mow the lawn? I yes, I do the laundry,
Speaker 2: I cook all my meal. I do these things because
Speaker 2: they make me feel accomplished. And I don't need anyone
Speaker 2: else to say, good, good boy, you did a good job.
Speaker 2: You're talented, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, or waiting around for them to let you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in that life that I need that, I needed
Speaker 2: other people to pat me on the head. I just
Speaker 2: I can't stand that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a challenging part of it to find that
Speaker 3: and to for people to be waiting around for you,
Speaker 3: to wait around for other people to let you do
Speaker 3: your job exactly.
Speaker 1: That's like it's so difficult. But luckily we've.
Speaker 3: Both had very fruitful careers where we have been able
Speaker 3: to do that a lot and had a lot of
Speaker 3: time to fill as well with mowing the lawn or
Speaker 3: organizing your closet.
Speaker 1: So, but finish, that's.
Speaker 2: The that's the key. You have to finish the task.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, must complete finished.
Speaker 2: That is what we're talking.
Speaker 3: That's the Yeah, it's counterintuitive here we always ask all
Speaker 3: of our guests who have come on the show, who
Speaker 3: were affiliated with Glee and we're a part of it,
Speaker 3: what is the feeling that Glee leaves you with? So
Speaker 3: I've got to ask you what is the feeling that
Speaker 3: Rent leaves you with, given that is was such a massive,
Speaker 3: massive part of your life.
Speaker 2: Gratitude, I mean, just gratitude at everything that it gave me,
Speaker 2: everything that it continues to give me. Uh and and
Speaker 2: and gratitude at being associated with something that is so
Speaker 2: beautiful and that has moved so many people and continues
Speaker 2: to and continues to affect and influence people. I mean,
Speaker 2: I couldn't have more gratitude for being connected to something
Speaker 2: like that. It's just the most incredible feeling. You know,
Speaker 2: like people could be connected to a lot of different things,
Speaker 2: you know in show business as well, you know, but
Speaker 2: you know, and enormous hits, enormous successes, enormous things. But
Speaker 2: the combination of such an enormous success and what it
Speaker 2: is and content of what it is and the effect
Speaker 2: that it has on people.
Speaker 3: No, I mean, you guys were are a part of
Speaker 3: something so much bigger than I think anything you could
Speaker 3: probably ever grasping your lifetime, but you can grasp most
Speaker 3: of it right, you know, but it was really impactful
Speaker 3: for me.
Speaker 1: And so many of the people that I grew up with.
Speaker 3: It shaped my career, shaped the inspiration for how I
Speaker 3: went about my career. It was really just really important
Speaker 3: and just as small, you know, just a window into
Speaker 3: some of the impact you guys have had.
Speaker 1: So thank you.
Speaker 2: So of course it's my pleasure, you know. I it's funny.
Speaker 2: I have friends who you know, my age, who were
Speaker 2: did study theater and were at you know, graduate excuse me,
Speaker 2: graduating from my Carnegie Mellon at the time or whatever
Speaker 2: it was when Red came out, And now they tell
Speaker 2: me what their reaction to it was and how like
Speaker 2: it was everything and it was everywhere and all everyone
Speaker 2: wanted to do, was like and that's it's so funny
Speaker 2: to me to hear that, because I didn't know any
Speaker 2: that was going on at the time, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Like, yeah, you hear all that stuff, and
Speaker 2: it's like, for sure, Wow, that's really cool, you.
Speaker 3: Know, no, really really really amazing. Well, thank you so
Speaker 3: much for coming taking the time to chat with me.
Speaker 3: It was really such a pleasure to meet you. And yeah,
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Of course, anytime.
Speaker 3: Bye.
Speaker 2: All right, see it.
Speaker 3: What a nice, nice grounded man. They say not to
Speaker 3: meet your heroes, but here I am meeting a hero.
Speaker 3: Adam Pascal was such an iconic voice and an amazing
Speaker 3: actor singer, and he's just just such a like you
Speaker 3: could turn on any album, any cast recording and he
Speaker 3: would start singing and you'd be like, oh, that's Adam,
Speaker 3: you know. So it's just very distinctive. And Rent was
Speaker 3: so important to me. So that's such a special interview
Speaker 3: and I'm so excited that I got to chat with him.
Speaker 3: And I hope you guys enjoyed the episode and that's
Speaker 3: what you really missed.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram at and
Speaker 1: that's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write
Speaker 1: us a review and leave us five stars.
Speaker 2: See you next time.