Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Behind the Bastards. Our guests for this week,
Speaker 2: Molly Hunger Molly, Welcome to the Poor gam.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm excited. I'm excited, Molly. What do you know
Speaker 3: about kent Hoven? When you first brought ken Hooven, I
Speaker 3: had him mixed up with a different creation as with
Speaker 3: the same initials. I was thinking of ken Ham. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 2: Weird that they have the same initials.
Speaker 3: So I have been to ken Ham's Creation Museum. We
Speaker 3: are animatronic dinosaurs, but I have not been the kent
Speaker 3: Hoven's dinosaur Land.
Speaker 2: It's really weird now that you bring it up. I
Speaker 2: mentioned hamm in here because he's like ham is the
Speaker 2: good creationist park, right like if you've seen in terms
Speaker 2: of like they put some money into that thing, Like
Speaker 2: if you've been there, you've like if if you've seen
Speaker 2: photos and stuff of like online, it's the one with
Speaker 2: like you see like the diet there's like a stegosaurus
Speaker 2: with a fucking saddle on it and stuff, and it's like, oh, Robert.
Speaker 3: I will have to send you the picture of me
Speaker 3: riding the trice Arato.
Speaker 2: That's like a decent quality model, right Like at least
Speaker 2: in the photos. It looks like they put some money
Speaker 2: into that point.
Speaker 3: I learned a lot about how humanity used to coexist
Speaker 3: with the dinosaurs.
Speaker 2: That's great, Molly, we'll be talking about that today. Kent
Speaker 2: Hovend is like not even the Kirkland brand version of
Speaker 2: that guy. He's the dollar General ken Ham right.
Speaker 3: Signature.
Speaker 2: You're right, he's he's the dollar General uh like brand
Speaker 2: of that guy. Because he also has a dinosaur amusement park.
Speaker 2: But it's dog shit and it killed a kid. So
Speaker 2: we're gonna have fun with this guy, Mollie. We're gonna
Speaker 2: have fun with this guy. So our subject to this
Speaker 2: week is doctor Kent Hovind a real doctor.
Speaker 3: It's never a real doctor on this show, mall.
Speaker 2: Third of the time. Maybe it's a real doctor. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He is a Christian educator with a passion for debating evolutionists.
Speaker 2: He believes that evolution is a religion and arguing that
Speaker 2: there were dinosaurs on Noah's Ark. He also runs, as
Speaker 2: I said, a dinosaur slash Bible themed park that doubles
Speaker 2: a compound for what is kind of a cult, a
Speaker 2: lower case see cult. I will say, as cult leaders go.
Speaker 3: He's not good at it.
Speaker 2: Maybe he doesn't really want that much control because he
Speaker 2: doesn't seem to exercise as much of it as a
Speaker 2: lot of them. But it's still pretty bad.
Speaker 3: Right, I mean, if there's no automatic rifles or child marriage,
Speaker 3: is it really a compound? Molly.
Speaker 2: I will say there's probably automatic rifles because it is
Speaker 2: an Arkansas, but as for the rest of it, I
Speaker 2: don't know. He did get a kid killed there, so
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say it's very good. Hey, everyone, Robert
Speaker 2: here from the future, and I fucked up. I wrote
Speaker 2: this both ways. The reality is that Kentovend now today
Speaker 2: lives in Alabama, not Arkansas. I don't know why I
Speaker 2: said Arkansas so much, other than I was very hungover
Speaker 2: from a variety of gas station drugs when we recorded
Speaker 2: this episode, so you can chalk that one up to
Speaker 2: me being gas station sober these days. Again, Kent Hoven
Speaker 2: lives in Alabama now, not Arkansas. I might argue that
Speaker 2: some of this is the fault of people in both
Speaker 2: Alabama and Arkansas from being two different states when we
Speaker 2: all know they should be the same state, but that's
Speaker 2: rather beside the point. Kent E. Hovend was born on
Speaker 2: January fifteenth, nineteen fifty three. I think he was born
Speaker 2: in Pensacola, Florida, but I don't feel great about my Yeah,
Speaker 2: not a good start.
Speaker 3: He may not have been.
Speaker 2: This may just be like bad AI summaries of stuff,
Speaker 2: although I found it in places that are not AI generated.
Speaker 2: But he seems to have immediately moved to East Peoria, Illinois,
Speaker 2: and spent most of his childhood there. He's there until
Speaker 2: he's like a young man. So I don't know if
Speaker 2: he was actually born in Illinois because I haven't really
Speaker 2: found a good direct source on that, but probably born
Speaker 2: in Florida, moved immediately to Illinois. I've come across basically
Speaker 2: nothing solid about his childhood or his parents, except for
Speaker 2: the fact that on numerous occasions he has said that
Speaker 2: he accepted Jesus Christ as his savior on February ninth,
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine. So he's about sixteen. Yeah, yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: We talk about this on the show occasionally, but it
Speaker 2: bears reemphasizing that, like in our cultural memory, sixty nine
Speaker 2: is like the summer of love, hippies and weed and
Speaker 2: anti war protests and all that good stuff. That's a
Speaker 2: pretty reductive picture of what's going on because right alongside
Speaker 2: all of that stuff, the civil rights movement in Woodstock,
Speaker 2: et cetera, there's the birth of a subculture known as
Speaker 2: Jesus People. Right, That's also a thing that's happening here.
Speaker 2: There's a huge surgeon like really unhinged Christian evangelism. Right,
Speaker 2: some of this is a reaction to the bad side
Speaker 2: of the hippie years.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: You've got with free love comes a lot of people
Speaker 2: getting STDs. You have a lot of people overdosing on drugs.
Speaker 2: You have swarms of young people who don't really have
Speaker 2: any money crowding into San Francisco and winding up basically
Speaker 2: living on the street. And a lot of these people
Speaker 2: get like disillusioned and desperate. And one of the first
Speaker 2: of them to get disillusioned is a guy named Ted Wise.
Speaker 2: Wise was a saale maker who had a bad LSD
Speaker 2: trip in nineteen sixty five and heard the voice of God.
Speaker 2: That'll get you, Yeah, that'll get you. I I you know,
Speaker 2: as a kid when I did drugs. You know, now,
Speaker 2: I'm straight edge except for you know, the stuff you
Speaker 2: can buy in gas stations. But as a kid, when
Speaker 2: I started doing drugs, I had this like evangelical belief
Speaker 2: that a lot of young people get that, Like, man,
Speaker 2: if we could just put this shit in the water
Speaker 2: supply and fix everything, that is not how drugs work.
Speaker 2: I was very wrong to nineteen year.
Speaker 3: Old were you in the CIA, Robert, Yes, yes, briefly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what everyone says. No, it turns out drugs
Speaker 2: can lead you in very bad directions, and that's what
Speaker 2: happens with Wise. He starts working with a bunch of
Speaker 2: pastors in the Bay Area to take in runaway hippie
Speaker 2: kids and turn them into evangelists. This thing that kind
Speaker 2: of becomes the Jesus movement starts in northern California, but
Speaker 2: soon there's coffee houses and soup kitchens, churches and farms
Speaker 2: with communal living spaces, all real bent on Jesus all
Speaker 2: over the country. Now, Kent doesn't graduate high school until
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one, which puts him at the old end
Speaker 2: of the Jesus People generation, and the evidence we have
Speaker 2: suggests he was always more in the conservative end of
Speaker 2: the Christian spectrum than some of the Eastern mysticism inspired
Speaker 2: Jesus People, because, like you get a lot of in
Speaker 2: some of the Christianity that comes out of the Jesus
Speaker 2: People movement. You get a little bit of like, we've
Speaker 2: thrown a little bit of Buddhism in here. We stuck
Speaker 2: a couple of Yo him pisses in here. Yeah, we're
Speaker 2: still hippies, you know, we are still smoking pot, right,
Speaker 2: But the cultural weight of that swing towards evangelical Christianity
Speaker 2: is definitely an influence on Ham. The preachers he's drawn to, though,
Speaker 2: are men like Jack Hiles. Hiles is an obscure figure
Speaker 2: to most Americans, but starting in the late nineteen fifties,
Speaker 2: Hyles is kind of the He kind of invents megachurches.
Speaker 2: That's who That's who Hiles is. He calls his church
Speaker 2: the Independent Baptist Church, and he it's crowned a super
Speaker 2: church by time in nineteen seventy five. Because he it's
Speaker 2: not just a place where people will go on Sundays.
Speaker 2: He builds a Bible college there, unaccredited obviously, he builds
Speaker 2: what becomes one of the largest Sunday schools in the country.
Speaker 2: So there's all these like ancillary buildings and programs attached
Speaker 2: to the bigger chure, and so thousands of people become
Speaker 2: members and it's this is kind of like the first
Speaker 2: precursor to what becomes the megachurch, right, this is like
Speaker 2: the Austrolopithecus of megachurches. Cool, So, yeah, that's Hiles's the's
Speaker 2: that's who Kent is going to be kind of like
Speaker 2: obsessed with as a kid.
Speaker 1: And like a very triggering last name. For some reason,
Speaker 1: I feel like.
Speaker 2: He should be British with that last ye, right, he
Speaker 2: should be played by the guy who played Niles in Frasier.
Speaker 1: Does it feels like it feels like there'd be a
Speaker 1: villain in some movie with that name.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so played by christ He is kind of a villain,
Speaker 2: and Christian Slater might be able to handle this role.
Speaker 2: He can handle most things. He's a great actor. But
Speaker 2: Hiles is a fundamentalist. He taught that people could not
Speaker 2: be born again unless they were brought to Christ using
Speaker 2: the King James Bible, which is that's a big thing
Speaker 2: for I don't know, like a fifth of Christians in
Speaker 2: the country today that like the King James Bible specifically
Speaker 2: is the Word of God and all of the other
Speaker 2: older or newer you know, translations and whatnot are wrong
Speaker 2: in some way. You just have God came back to
Speaker 2: do to drop like a mixtape, a remix of his
Speaker 2: old hits, and this is the only thing you're allowed
Speaker 2: to listen to now.
Speaker 3: I love this stuff.
Speaker 2: Hovind also admired a guy named Bob Jones, Sr. Who
Speaker 2: I'm gonna guess you've heard of, Oh.
Speaker 3: I've heard of Jones University. Absolutely, yeah, Well this is
Speaker 3: a fine institution.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the great college one of the great
Speaker 2: learning centers in our nation.
Speaker 3: You know, I've always said, can you really be learning
Speaker 3: if you're not wearing pantyhose? No?
Speaker 2: No, And Bob Jones Senior would say absolutely not. He
Speaker 2: was an American evangelist, one of the first Christian radio stars,
Speaker 2: and as you said, he founded Bob Jones University. He
Speaker 2: was also a segregationist and one of the people who
Speaker 2: felt like having a Catholic in the White House was
Speaker 2: going to doom this nation to papist domination.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: He's one of those guys who would like rant about
Speaker 2: the papists taking control of the government and me in
Speaker 2: every word, oh what a different time. I almost have
Speaker 2: trouble getting in the head of someone who is like
Speaker 2: specifically scared that the Catholics are going to take over
Speaker 2: this country, like we have one in there now and
Speaker 2: he's like barely holding on.
Speaker 3: Well, that's only because the power of the pope has waned. Robert.
Speaker 3: If you had a more powerful pope, I think would
Speaker 3: be would be really in trouble.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we need the pope needs a thousand blood sacrifices
Speaker 2: to get his power level back up to where he
Speaker 2: can he can cast Mammon out of the temples that
Speaker 2: we've built in Capitol Hill. I think that's right, mammon. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the God of money. So Kin's personal pastor was
Speaker 2: Lauren Dawson, whose gospel tape ministry was a groundbreaking Christian business,
Speaker 2: sending more than ten thousand taped sermons ten thousand individual
Speaker 2: tape sermons out to anyone who wanted to buy them.
Speaker 2: This is like before the Internet. This is if you
Speaker 2: want to spread your shit in an Internet like way.
Speaker 2: This is kind of how a lot of shit spread
Speaker 2: mimetically throughout the kind of what becomes the Christian right.
Speaker 2: And Kent is going to devour every one of these
Speaker 2: tapes he can get his hands on as a young man,
Speaker 2: and this is where he learns the secrets of public
Speaker 2: speaking and preaching. As a business. In fact, if I
Speaker 2: had to draw together the similarities between the different guys
Speaker 2: Kent admired as a boy, it would be that they
Speaker 2: all succeeded in turning their faith into an industry or
Speaker 2: industries instead of just a church.
Speaker 3: Right, he's.
Speaker 2: Right, money changing in the temple Jesus favorite thing.
Speaker 3: We all know. He's huge into stuff. The Word of
Speaker 3: God is for sale.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Why wouldn't it be. He didn't come back
Speaker 2: to rewrite the King James Bible for you to not
Speaker 2: make a buck.
Speaker 3: Off of it, you know.
Speaker 2: So these guys are Kent's guiding light, and he saw
Speaker 2: this like decides his future is in Christianity, not specifically
Speaker 2: as a belief system or a way of life, because
Speaker 2: he does not live a particularly Christian life, but as
Speaker 2: a way to make a living. Specifically, he decides he's
Speaker 2: going to make a living in Christian education. Here's what
Speaker 2: he writes about his development past this point in twenty
Speaker 2: twelve on a website called Creation Today, one of my
Speaker 2: favorite news sources. Molly his keen interest in math and
Speaker 2: science throughout his high school career prompted his enrollment at
Speaker 2: Illinois Central College as a science major after two years
Speaker 2: of undergraduate work there and feeling God calling him to
Speaker 2: full time Christian service, he completed his Bachelor of Religious
Speaker 2: Education degree at Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan, in
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four. For fifteen years, Hovan taught high school
Speaker 2: math and science, during which time he completed his master's
Speaker 2: degree in education. While researching and writing his doctoral dissertation
Speaker 2: on the subject of creation versus Evolution, he saw the
Speaker 2: tremendous need for exposing evolution as a dangerous religious worldview
Speaker 2: and for arming Christians with scientific evidence that there are
Speaker 2: no contradictions between true science and the Bible. In response
Speaker 2: to these needs, shortly after finishing his PhD in religious education,
Speaker 2: he began a full time ministry.
Speaker 3: Now, so he's teaching high school science. Not at all, Molly,
Speaker 3: all of that's lies. Every word I read almost was
Speaker 3: a lie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 2: No again. Seventy percent of the time. If I introduced
Speaker 2: someone on their show as a doctor, they are not
Speaker 2: in fact a doctor. And yeah, basically everything he put.
Speaker 2: He may have done two years of college trying to
Speaker 2: get a science degree, but he didn't get a science degree,
Speaker 2: which is about as impressive as the two years I
Speaker 2: spent considering getting a history degree, right, Like.
Speaker 3: You didn't get it.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter really, But let's start with the most
Speaker 2: basic claim up there, right, that he taught high school
Speaker 2: math and science for fifteen years. This seems like it
Speaker 2: would probably be true. People usually don't lie about being
Speaker 2: a high school math and science teachers. And like, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of teachers in the country, right. Teaching is
Speaker 2: not an easy job, obviously, but it's not impossible for
Speaker 2: cranks and weirdos to get teaching degrees.
Speaker 3: Right, it happens. I've had a couple of them time
Speaker 3: times and places where you don't even need a teaching degree. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: well that's exactly where Kent comes in. Right.
Speaker 2: He does do some teaching, but it's not what you
Speaker 2: or I would call high school math and science teaching.
Speaker 2: The reality is that he gets teaching gigs at three
Speaker 2: private Christian schools, none of which you're accredited, all of
Speaker 2: which you're run out of churches, and one of them
Speaker 2: is run out of a church that he founded. There
Speaker 2: is no public record of him having a teaching career
Speaker 2: or evidence that he ever taught at something the government
Speaker 2: recognizes as a school, so there's no nothing behind that. Really,
Speaker 2: he may have lectured about dinosaurs to some kids for
Speaker 2: fifteen years, but we can't prove it.
Speaker 3: The real science class is the friends we made along
Speaker 3: the way.
Speaker 2: That's right, Molly, that's right. So Kent worked as a
Speaker 2: pastor and a not really a teacher teacher from nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy five until around nineteen eighty eight. While he was
Speaker 2: still in school. In nineteen seventy three, he married his
Speaker 2: first wife, Joe. And I need to put emphasis on
Speaker 2: the word first there, because for a man who believes
Speaker 2: divorce is a sin, Kent Hoven does a lot of
Speaker 2: getting divorced.
Speaker 3: Not yet though.
Speaker 2: He and Joe are going to have three kids from
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven to nineteen seventy nine, which is too
Speaker 2: fast to have three kids us. That's quite a rate,
Speaker 2: poor Joe. Yeah. But in that time he started one
Speaker 2: private Baptist school and he worked as an assistant pastor
Speaker 2: at two others. In nineteen eighty nine, dismayed by the
Speaker 2: growth of scientific rational thought in popular culture, he moved
Speaker 2: to Pensacola and created a new ministry, Creation Science Evangelism.
Speaker 2: The goal with this ministry was to promote creationism, and
Speaker 2: he begins traveling around the world delivering lectures about how
Speaker 2: to argue with evolutionists. He also sold merch, most of
Speaker 2: it dinosaur themed, and this becomes a surprisingly successful business ultimately.
Speaker 2: But it's a slow start at first, and we're going
Speaker 2: to cover what happens next. But first, Mollie, you know
Speaker 2: what didn't get a slow start.
Speaker 3: Away? Is it these products and services?
Speaker 2: It's these excellent products and services that support our podcast
Speaker 2: and or program. Ah, we're back, and Mollie, you were
Speaker 2: just telling me that some other iHeart hosts have been
Speaker 2: getting sent allergy medicine which I could sorely use right now.
Speaker 2: Do you know what drug it is?
Speaker 3: Is that I'm being honest with you. I skip the ads,
Speaker 3: but I have the tail end of a couple of them.
Speaker 3: Some of our colleagues.
Speaker 1: No, they're not giving us money yet, don't shill for that.
Speaker 3: I know. I want to know what it is. I
Speaker 3: want them to give us. Colleges are getting allergy pills
Speaker 3: for free?
Speaker 2: Is it the stuff with methan? It because I missed
Speaker 2: that ship that was good, that was the stuff that worked.
Speaker 2: Everybody bullshit, I don't think.
Speaker 3: I don't think out of a tin treats allergies. Literally,
Speaker 3: that was.
Speaker 1: The best allergy medicine. And then and then you they
Speaker 1: put them behind the pharmacy and.
Speaker 2: Because they're plusted people doing shaken bags, it's bullshit, Like,
Speaker 2: what's the harm a little bit of picher?
Speaker 1: Come on, that's the best I could ever breathe, to
Speaker 1: be honest. And then all of a sudden they were gone,
Speaker 1: and or you would go and buy them and you'd
Speaker 1: buy a box and those were not the right bills.
Speaker 3: Yeah a time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's we need to have like, if
Speaker 2: we're going to have all of these guns be legal,
Speaker 2: we need to have a standard where if you can't
Speaker 2: prove something is scarier than an AR fifteen, it has
Speaker 2: to be legal, right, Like shake and bake biker meth,
Speaker 2: like that's not nearly as dangerous as guns. Let's let
Speaker 2: let it. Let people buy it over the counter.
Speaker 3: Come on, enjoy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, come on, guys. We probably still have seat belts,
Speaker 2: but maybe we get rid of air bags for those
Speaker 2: weird air bag fundamentalists. I feel like that's a voting block.
Speaker 2: We might be able to conquer that kind of guy.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Molly, that's absolutely there's about a million of
Speaker 2: those guys in the country, and if we get them
Speaker 2: on our side, we can legal lies the good allergy medicine.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 2: Anyway, back to Kent, hovind So. Kent starts his new
Speaker 2: ministry in between earning his master's degree in Christian education
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty eight and his PhD in Christian education
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one. Now I know what you're asking, Mollie,
Speaker 2: because you asked this earlier. Are those real degrees? Don't worry,
Speaker 2: We're getting to it. So for the first years of
Speaker 2: his career, though, he lectures dozens of times at schools
Speaker 2: and Sunday schools and churches and Bible colleges. He says
Speaker 2: he lectures at public schools. It's Arkansas and Florida, so
Speaker 2: there's a good chance he's not lying. And his focus
Speaker 2: is in laying tactics out for arguing against evolution.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: He's particularly obsessed with public debates and arming his audiences
Speaker 2: with this arsenal of gotcha lines that they can use
Speaker 2: to win public confrontations, and a lot of it has
Speaker 2: to do with like setting the terms of the debate
Speaker 2: in a way where you're not really arguing about evolution
Speaker 2: or like trying to lead people into these logic traps.
Speaker 2: He thinks he's built. But here's an example of the
Speaker 2: kind of shit he's doing.
Speaker 4: Just you're gonna say, and where did God come from?
Speaker 4: I don't know, but you said twenty billion years ago
Speaker 4: there was a big bang, and you don't know where
Speaker 4: the dirt came from. So basically, I believe in the
Speaker 4: beginning God and you believe in the beginning dirt. Don't
Speaker 4: tell me my theory is religious and yours is science.
Speaker 4: Oh no, sir, they're both religious. The news media tries
Speaker 4: to make it look like it is religion versus science.
Speaker 4: I did a debate in El Paso, Texas here recently,
Speaker 4: and the media wrote an article they said religious and
Speaker 4: scientifically to urge debate evolution. What is the unspoken message
Speaker 4: in that title?
Speaker 3: What are they trying to imply?
Speaker 4: Can you catch that? They're trying to imply that evolution
Speaker 4: is part of science, aren't they? No, evolution is a religion.
Speaker 3: It sounds like he's about to start rapping. It does
Speaker 3: sound like he's about to drop a bar. Really, I
Speaker 3: could feel it coming.
Speaker 2: No, he doesn't have that Ben Shapiro level of versatility.
Speaker 3: He's the bench of Bureau of Dinosaurs.
Speaker 1: He is, he is. The background music is such a choice.
Speaker 3: It's fascinating stuff. But like he's he's like why did
Speaker 3: he do that? Singer?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you see what he's doing there though, right, he's
Speaker 2: like number one, he's starting this is he's not starting
Speaker 2: by talking about evolution, like he's he's literally immediately taking
Speaker 2: the rails off of the debate because evolution has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with the Big Bang, right, Like he starts
Speaker 2: by talking about the formation of the universe, and there's
Speaker 2: actually always going to be a degree of unknown, right,
Speaker 2: like we're never going to get perfect. Now I would
Speaker 2: disagree with him. There's actually quite a bit because of
Speaker 2: the way that like looking at shit in space works,
Speaker 2: there's quite a bit that we can observe about the
Speaker 2: early days of the universe that we simply cannot observe
Speaker 2: about like his beliefs about a god. But that has
Speaker 2: nothing to do with evolution, which is like again like
Speaker 2: mutations and changes in time over species, you know, aggregating
Speaker 2: over the course of incredibly long periods of time, right,
Speaker 2: Like that has nothing to do with like the Big Bang,
Speaker 2: and it's separate things.
Speaker 3: But like at the end of the day, like, I'm
Speaker 3: not an astrophysicist. I cannot tell you how dirt accreted
Speaker 3: in the emptiness of space to form Earth because that's
Speaker 3: not my business. That's not my business. But I can
Speaker 3: tell you that a child never wrote a dinosaur. Okay,
Speaker 3: I can't tell you a child never wrote a dinosaur.
Speaker 2: And I can tell you that just like you know,
Speaker 2: when we get into like the the arcana of astrophysics, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a lot of that's over my head. Will we
Speaker 2: get into the basics of evolutionary theory, all of that
Speaker 2: makes complete sense. I understand that quite well, Like, because
Speaker 2: you can see there's variance in just.
Speaker 3: Like the people.
Speaker 2: You know, if you've had a bunch of different dogs
Speaker 2: and cats, there's variants in them. And some of the
Speaker 2: different variants that occurs naturally as animals breed are going
Speaker 2: to be more adaptive to their environment than others, and
Speaker 2: over time that will change the species, and that will
Speaker 2: lead to like the splitting into different species. Right, you
Speaker 2: can see it on a micro scale in your own
Speaker 2: life if you have animals, and you can understand how,
Speaker 2: over the course of billions of years, it would lead
Speaker 2: to much more drastic changes than you see in like
Speaker 2: a few generations of goats.
Speaker 3: Are Yeah, but who invented dirt, Robert, But who invented dirt? Gotcha?
Speaker 3: I got you. I find it very frustrating. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I want to play one more clip to you
Speaker 2: of Kent before we move on. And this isn't him
Speaker 2: talking about evolution, but I came across it in my research,
Speaker 2: and I do think it sets up some things about
Speaker 2: the kind of man he is.
Speaker 3: This clip is called Kentoven goes Bananas. It sure is. Molly,
Speaker 3: I was about six years old.
Speaker 4: I was raised in East Peoria, Illinois.
Speaker 3: By the way, I know, I'm in Tennessee. But are
Speaker 3: there any more Yankees in the crowd? Any Yankees out there? Five?
Speaker 4: Six, seven?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 3: How many Southerners do we have?
Speaker 4: Ooh?
Speaker 3: Well, just remember who won?
Speaker 2: If you would, I know what over you.
Speaker 3: I couldn't help that.
Speaker 4: But I did move to Florida as soon as I
Speaker 4: got smart enough to figure out you know this.
Speaker 3: Again, So I just I needed to play that little bit.
Speaker 2: About to sell rising again to let people know that
Speaker 2: he's down with the Confederacy, that he didn't all wasn't always,
Speaker 2: but now he knows they.
Speaker 3: Were remembering who won. But it's not over. But it's
Speaker 3: not over. It's such a weird splitting.
Speaker 1: I enjoy his five six seven hand motions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's that's those are like workmanlike public speaking,
Speaker 2: you know, tech tactics.
Speaker 3: He's not bad at he's good at it. Actually you
Speaker 3: have to give him. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So one of the nice things about Kent, about writing
Speaker 2: about Kent, and also one of the frustrating things, is
Speaker 2: that he started reaching for prominence as a creationist debate
Speaker 2: bro effectively in the nineties.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: And if you if you remember the Internet of like
Speaker 2: particularly the mid to late nineties early two thousands, a
Speaker 2: huge thing on the Internet back then was inner atheists,
Speaker 2: and this community sometimes called the skeptic community. It's split
Speaker 2: in a number of directions. In the modern era, some
Speaker 2: of these people have gone in very heartbreaking directions.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: We can talk about Richard Dawkins being like, now I'm
Speaker 2: a cultural Christian because I hate Islam so much. Right,
Speaker 2: But there was this there was this kind of not
Speaker 2: even brief, like a decade period where like there was
Speaker 2: an army of everyone from like forum trolls to like
Speaker 2: guys like Dawkins who were just committed, like like pitbulls,
Speaker 2: to like hanging on and like latching onto arguments with
Speaker 2: Christians over creationism.
Speaker 3: Right, I'm going to get.
Speaker 2: One or both kinds of pitbull people angry at me
Speaker 2: for that comment. Look, I've been attacked by.
Speaker 3: Either way. Bill Maher is gonna becoming for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's another one of these guys. Right, And because
Speaker 2: because he was so prominent during this period of time,
Speaker 2: there was like a whole information ecosystem dedicated to attacking Kentoven.
Speaker 2: There were entire websites that are just picking apart his
Speaker 2: whole life and backstory with surgical precision because he pissed
Speaker 2: off just some of these these maniac internet atheists who
Speaker 2: I love, I have very fond memories of, but who
Speaker 2: like clearly were the kind of damaged where they would
Speaker 2: spend seventy hours a week writing about Kent Hovind. You know,
Speaker 2: like it's the thing we don't really have that anymore
Speaker 2: on the Internet, Like Kiwi Farms.
Speaker 3: We have Kiwi Farm, but I feel like these people
Speaker 3: have the same sort of mental derange the Kiwi Farms user, but.
Speaker 2: They're not, you know, it's it's much more ethical because
Speaker 2: they're never going after harmless people like kitimately a bad
Speaker 2: guys the.
Speaker 3: Same level of fixation, but targeted in a good direction.
Speaker 2: Yes, and targeted much more narrowly. Right, we just can't
Speaker 2: focus the way we used to, Mollie.
Speaker 3: So it's just information overload. Yeah.
Speaker 2: One of the most detailed sites to pick apart Kent's
Speaker 2: life was kenthovend dot com, run by John Steer. Today
Speaker 2: the website is most accessible through the wayback machine, and
Speaker 2: if you want an idea of its age, there was
Speaker 2: a running tally at the top of every page counting
Speaker 2: up the total cost of the Iraq War. So it's
Speaker 2: like again, like just for a snapshot of the time.
Speaker 3: This was written a beautiful time capsule.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's magical stuff. It really brought me back to
Speaker 2: my teenage years. So on that website, one of the
Speaker 2: there's like a Q and a portion and one of
Speaker 2: the questions is is doctor Hoven a real doctor? And
Speaker 2: Steer writes yes and no. So it turns out Hovend
Speaker 2: did get a religious based PhD from Patriot University, which
Speaker 2: then changed its name to Patriot Bible University. They throw
Speaker 2: a Bible in there, Molly, how does that not work better,
Speaker 2: it's worse. It's better because it makes the acronym PBu
Speaker 2: instead of PU. Right, Like, that's just not great for
Speaker 2: they should have thought about that, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: Despite that questionable name, PBu has been authorized by the
Speaker 2: Colorado Commission of Higher Education as a seminary or Bible college,
Speaker 2: which means it can grant religeigeous degrees, but only religious degrees.
Speaker 2: It wouldn't be entirely fair to say these aren't real
Speaker 2: in the legal sense. But also Kent is going to
Speaker 2: spend decades identifying himself as a PhD in education and
Speaker 2: authoring scientific papers and calling himself a doctor, both to
Speaker 2: insinuate that his PhD has something to do with science
Speaker 2: or evolution. It does not, Steer writs quote. Patriot University
Speaker 2: also claims to be accredited by an unrecognized American Accrediting
Speaker 2: Association of Theological Institutions, which operates from the same po
Speaker 2: box as a as Christian Bible College. Both AAATI and
Speaker 2: CBC are run by Cecil Johnson, and CBC is only
Speaker 2: accredited by you guessed at AAATI. This blatant conflict of
Speaker 2: interest could be a litmus test for the quality of AAATI.
Speaker 2: So I decided to look into this AATI, this accrediting
Speaker 2: organization that accredits the organization that runs.
Speaker 3: It, right, and it's just a diploma mill. Right.
Speaker 2: For years, it would offer you if you wanted to
Speaker 2: start your own Bible school, they would accredit your Bible
Speaker 2: school for one hundred dollars plus seventy five bucks a year.
Speaker 2: But the federal government does not recognize AAATI accreditation.
Speaker 3: Right, didn't unders Bravik run a similar scam for years?
Speaker 2: Oh god, he might, Yeah, I think he did. I
Speaker 2: don't have much enough recollection of that to want.
Speaker 3: To get into it. But we'd make fake diplomas, so yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, good company, good company. We need to get
Speaker 3: into the fake diploma business, Molly. I'm getting a doctorate
Speaker 3: right now.
Speaker 2: I think I could offer degrees, and I feel like
Speaker 2: we should just try for medical degrees. Like, let's just
Speaker 2: see if we can get people putting out pills. You know,
Speaker 2: I think it's worth a shot. So if we'll debate
Speaker 2: this in private, Molly, Molly's on my side, though I
Speaker 2: can tell she thinks this is a.
Speaker 3: Good speaking of idea.
Speaker 2: Mollie, would you like to see Patriot Bible University? Because
Speaker 2: it started as a Bible college in Dallas, Texas, but
Speaker 2: it moved to Colorado and it is currently based in
Speaker 2: what appears to be a double wide trailer. No, it's
Speaker 2: it's beautiful where they have parking. Year My college didn't
Speaker 2: have nearly this good parking situation.
Speaker 3: This is like the front office, like where's the where's
Speaker 3: the rest? This is a man's house, Molly.
Speaker 2: This isn't even a front office, is uh? And having
Speaker 2: lived in trailers, I can say this isn't a particularly
Speaker 2: nice one. Where does the students go, Yeah, they don't, Mollie.
Speaker 2: They send their money and in letters and they get
Speaker 2: degrees in the mail.
Speaker 3: It's just a guy with a xerox machine. It's a
Speaker 3: guy with a Xerox MASSIONEID. Yeah, solid, So I could
Speaker 3: be I could be a doctor. You could be a doctor.
Speaker 2: It costs about nineteen hundred dollars, or at least it
Speaker 2: did twenty years ago. I'm not sure now a steal.
Speaker 2: It's a good price. So Patriot Bible University teaches youngerth
Speaker 2: creationism and charges monthly, which Wikipedia notes makes it unlike
Speaker 2: most universities.
Speaker 3: They're on the deca semester system.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is Unlike most real schools.
Speaker 3: Students can be predo decamesters.
Speaker 2: Students can prepay for degrees, and in two thousand and
Speaker 2: two they offered a buy three, get one free credit deal,
Speaker 2: which definitely sounds okay.
Speaker 3: I found a copy.
Speaker 2: Of their internal magazine from two thousand and two, and
Speaker 2: this is a little off topic, but they have a
Speaker 2: whole page dedicated to suggested church signs. I want to
Speaker 2: go through some of these, moll you want to.
Speaker 3: Just read through these?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: I love that because you see these. You know, you
Speaker 3: guys aren't in the South, but yeah, when you drive drive,
Speaker 3: you drive a rural road, you know, through the country South,
Speaker 3: and you gotta wonder, like, are they getting these from
Speaker 3: a magazine? And I guess the answer is yes, some
Speaker 3: of them. Yes, let's pop.
Speaker 1: Let's let's popcorn. Read.
Speaker 3: I'll go.
Speaker 1: I'll go first. God answers email Jesus at.
Speaker 3: The best vitamin for a Christian is B one? What
Speaker 3: does that even mean? Like vitamin B one? Like B two,
Speaker 3: B twelve? Yeah? But what is what is the put?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: Like, the best vitamin for is to be is to
Speaker 3: be one Christian. That's not a good pun to.
Speaker 1: Be one with Christ strawberty.
Speaker 3: Yeah, is B one even one of the B vitamins.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it is. I've never heard of it.
Speaker 2: I think I think this is just a bad joke.
Speaker 1: Yes, there is a vitamin there that's good.
Speaker 2: That shows how much we know about vitamins. Here's another one, tithe.
Speaker 2: If you love Jesus, anyone can honk, which seems kind
Speaker 2: of desperate. You don't even have to love Jesus.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: Oh, I know they're saying, tie if you love Jesus
Speaker 2: because honking is too easy, like you, if you're just honking. Yeah,
Speaker 2: give us money, fuck you, give us money.
Speaker 1: A clear conscience makes a soft hello.
Speaker 3: Mm there you go, prevent truth decay. Brush up on
Speaker 3: your Bible.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there are people who are brushing their teeth
Speaker 2: with their Bibles that read this magazine. Christians keep the faith,
Speaker 2: but not from others, and don't don't keep let everybody
Speaker 2: into Christianity. And what part of thou shalt not? Don't
Speaker 2: you understand you didn't yell.
Speaker 1: Thou shalt not. It's in all caps.
Speaker 3: It isn't all caps. It isn't all caps. These aren't
Speaker 3: even good like I've seen. Of course they're not good.
Speaker 3: I've seen a lot of these, and these ones aren't
Speaker 3: even funny.
Speaker 2: No, these are terrible. And it's filled with letters from
Speaker 2: like students and graduates, this magazine and like inspirational little
Speaker 2: essays on how if you want to be a good writer,
Speaker 2: the best book to read is the Bible, which is
Speaker 2: a professional writer. I have not found the Bible particularly helpful,
Speaker 2: not saying it's not useful. It's a it's an incredibly
Speaker 2: important historic document. I have gained value from reading the
Speaker 2: Bible as historic document, but I didn't get value in
Speaker 2: like learning how to write from it. Right you'll, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's also a lot of bullshit like Leviticus you can
Speaker 2: mostly cut, Like if I'm editing that thing, I'm chomping
Speaker 2: down like half of those chapters.
Speaker 3: Right, well, you know that what is it?
Speaker 4: Like? What is it?
Speaker 3: What is it from? I think it's from Proverbs about
Speaker 3: like you know, the the idiot returns to his folly
Speaker 3: like a dog returns to its vomit.
Speaker 2: You know, that's that's not that that's not that's a
Speaker 2: good line, Like you wouldn't keep some of gold? Like
Speaker 2: if I'm I might, I might do what Thomas Jefferson
Speaker 2: did and like do my own version of the Bible,
Speaker 2: and we're just gonna cold open on Jesus fucking up
Speaker 2: those money lenders in the Temple and then like freeze
Speaker 2: frame and Jesus is like looks that look to looks
Speaker 2: to camera and goes wondering we could make we can
Speaker 2: make a solid nineties movie Jeremy Piven plays Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: Uh oh, yeah, probably shouldn't cast Jeremy Piven in anything anymore,
Speaker 2: but I watched PCU recently, so anyway, I find this
Speaker 2: kind of stuff fascinating. As a young, angry atheist, magazines
Speaker 2: like this kind of terrified me. But now it all
Speaker 2: seems so quaint compared to a lot of what's gone
Speaker 2: mainstream on the right. So I don't know, I don't
Speaker 2: know where I land there. The essay that closes out
Speaker 2: the issue is titled Age of Reasoning question Mark, and
Speaker 2: it features a lengthy complaint that today's kids all know
Speaker 2: about Snoop Dogg but not the Constitution.
Speaker 3: Then it is I'm always saying this.
Speaker 2: I will say I got a given credit. I learned
Speaker 2: something maybe from this, And because it ends with an
Speaker 2: insane story that I hadn't heard before, The story is
Speaker 2: told of Franklin Roosevelt, who often endured long receiving lines
Speaker 2: at the White House. He complained that no one really
Speaker 2: paid attention to what was said. One day, during a reception,
Speaker 2: he decided to try an experiment. To each person who
Speaker 2: passed down the line and shook his hand, he murmured,
Speaker 2: I murdered my grandmother this morning. The guests responded with
Speaker 2: raises like marvelous, keep up the good work. We're proud
Speaker 2: of you. God bless you, sir. It was not till
Speaker 2: the end of the line, while greeting the ambassador from
Speaker 2: Bolivia that his words were actually heard.
Speaker 3: Nonplus.
Speaker 2: The ambassador leaned over and whispered, I'm sure she had
Speaker 2: it coming. Now that's a fun plead story.
Speaker 3: That's true. Please tell me that's true.
Speaker 2: Unclear, Molly, because I had the same reaction as you
Speaker 2: when I read that, I was like, well, I want
Speaker 2: that to be true.
Speaker 3: That would make me like FBR so much more.
Speaker 2: But I googled around. Snopes has looked into the matter,
Speaker 2: and the answer is it's like a maybe, it's kind
Speaker 2: of right on the line right. It seems to have
Speaker 2: originated this story in a nineteen fifty three book titled
Speaker 2: The Complete Spelled in a Weird Way Practical Joker by
Speaker 2: h Allen Smith, who was a journalist and a comedy writer.
Speaker 2: And like, it's unclear if this is just bullshit or
Speaker 2: a thing he actually heard or witnessed. It may have
Speaker 2: just been a story that went around.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: My guess is this is probably not literally true, but
Speaker 2: we can choose to believe this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this could be our episode about faith, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I have faith.
Speaker 2: So back to Kent Hoven, his first PhD. He's going
Speaker 2: to get three more and all of them are equally bullshit.
Speaker 2: Did require him to produce a doctoral dissertation? Yes, these
Speaker 2: are an important part of real life PhD programs. And
Speaker 2: a key aspect of like writing a thesis, right, is
Speaker 2: that to get your doctorate you have to publish original
Speaker 2: work that expands, to some extent the frontier of human knowledge,
Speaker 2: or at least attempts to write. And it is something
Speaker 2: that is reviewed by a committee of relevant experts. They
Speaker 2: have to eventually sign off on it, and it is
Speaker 2: published somewhere that everyone can read it. Right, This is
Speaker 2: this is the basics of like how that's supposed to work?
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah, now let's see it.
Speaker 2: Because Patriot Bible University isn't a real school, no one
Speaker 2: could actually find a copy of his dissertation for a
Speaker 2: long time.
Speaker 3: Eventially double wide.
Speaker 2: Actually it was somewhere in that double wide And eventually
Speaker 2: there's now a copy. It's got posted on like WikiLeaks.
Speaker 2: Eventually it's an agree to which the internet was out
Speaker 2: for this guy, loaded for bore.
Speaker 3: Wiki leaks came. Oh, it's so funny.
Speaker 2: But eventually, like an actual scientist reviews this thing and
Speaker 2: points out a number of things that make this not
Speaker 2: a real dissertation or thesis a when a real thesis
Speaker 2: is reviewed by a committee of three to five people
Speaker 2: with relevant expertise. Kent was only reviewed by doctor Wayne Knight,
Speaker 2: who runs Patriot Bible University, and sounds like a Batman character, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a guy from the Batman cartoon.
Speaker 3: Don't tell me that man sence academic. He sounds like
Speaker 3: a guest on the fourth hour of Info Wars.
Speaker 2: There's actually there's there's a substantially higher than zero chance
Speaker 2: that doctor Wayne Knight has been on it, but Wars
Speaker 2: I didn't think to look into that. Honestly, now that
Speaker 2: I think about it, that's almost certain. Yeah, So, since
Speaker 2: Kent is going to make his career badly defending creationism,
Speaker 2: it behooves us to look at the kind of claims
Speaker 2: he made in what is ostensibly the springboard of his
Speaker 2: academic career. One academic who reviewed his thesis noted, even
Speaker 2: the undergraduate honors thesis at my institution require the signatures
Speaker 2: of two faculty members. This fellow goes on to note
Speaker 2: that misspellings are rampant in cite several examples, including Canaan,
Speaker 2: which a Bible doctor really ought to be able to spell,
Speaker 2: and Shinto he meant shinto. Other criticisms include the fact
Speaker 2: that the thesis does not have a title. It has
Speaker 2: one illustration, which was a is a diagram of the
Speaker 2: electromagnetic spectrum, literally cut out of an actual science textbook
Speaker 2: and taped badly inside the thesis. The reviewer notes it
Speaker 2: does not fit the page, and so what did he
Speaker 2: prove that evolution is a religion and creationism is great? Well, actually,
Speaker 2: we'll talk a little bit about his academic assault on
Speaker 2: the theory of molly and maybe convince you to give
Speaker 2: up your life of sin for the cleansing peace of
Speaker 2: Bible believing Christianity.
Speaker 3: But first I'm diving right into that baptismal font we
Speaker 3: come back from this break.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my only Bible and my only baptism is in
Speaker 2: the cool running rivers of commerce that supports this podcast.
Speaker 2: All right, we're back. Kent is going to build, you know,
Speaker 2: his career attacking evolutions. Let's look at how he attacks it.
Speaker 2: In this thesis quote, Hovid begins with a non standard
Speaker 2: definition of evolution that with time, things left to themselves
Speaker 2: can improve, and a ramble about thermodynamics. For the first time,
Speaker 2: evolution is described as a religion. Hang on to your hats.
Speaker 2: He then proceeds to a long pair of inaccurate definitions
Speaker 2: of microevolution and macro evolution. He finishes this section with
Speaker 2: a second misstatement about evolution by pinning the idea of
Speaker 2: evolution equals progress on the evolutionists. Now there's a lot.
Speaker 3: That's wrong there.
Speaker 2: I mean, for one thing, evolution is not things improving
Speaker 2: over the time when left to themselves. It's again like
Speaker 2: random changes, some of which are going to prove adaptive,
Speaker 2: some of which won't. And that leads to like change
Speaker 2: in differentiation in species over long periods of time. Right,
Speaker 2: it's not inherently improving. Things don't always get better. Species
Speaker 2: don't always get better because of this like that. That's
Speaker 2: not what anyone's arguing for when they're talking about No,
Speaker 2: of course not now. Despite what guys like Hoven say,
Speaker 2: the theory of evolution is simple and hard to argue
Speaker 2: with because it's such a reasonable thing. Hovend has to
Speaker 2: come Like the Catholic Church hasn't had an issue with
Speaker 2: it and longer than any of us has been alive.
Speaker 3: Right, and it doesn't preclude the existence of a creator God.
Speaker 3: You could just say, no, God invented evolution. Done.
Speaker 2: There's plenty of perfectly fine, like fucking YouTube arguments you
Speaker 2: can make for evolution being integrated with a belief in God.
Speaker 2: I don't care how convinced saying you as an individual
Speaker 2: find them. They're all more convincing than what Kint is saying.
Speaker 3: Right, you can still believe in your God without being silly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the pope does, and he believes in a lot
Speaker 2: of silly shit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but we have a woke pope now, we do,
Speaker 3: we do hu woke huge problem, a real issue.
Speaker 2: So Hovend has to come up because evolution is such
Speaker 2: an inherently reasonable concept. Hoven has to come up with
Speaker 2: his own straw man definitions of evolution to argue against,
Speaker 2: and they're always a little bit different. Later in his career,
Speaker 2: he's going to offer a two hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 2: dollars prize to anyone who can promise empirically his word
Speaker 2: that evolution is real. And here's how he defines it
Speaker 2: for the purpose of this argument. When I use the
Speaker 2: word evolution, I am not referring to the minor variations
Speaker 2: found in all of various all of the various life
Speaker 2: forms microevolution. I am referring to the general theory of evolution,
Speaker 2: which believes that these five major events took place without God.
Speaker 2: Number one, time, space and matter came into existence by themselves.
Speaker 2: Number two and it's and stars formed from space dust.
Speaker 2: Number three, Matter created life by itself. Number four, early
Speaker 2: life forms learned to reproduce themselves. Number five major changes
Speaker 2: between these diverse life forms And like, that's not evolution, man,
Speaker 2: you're wrapping a bunch of different things into like all together.
Speaker 2: Like the theory. Darwin's theory of evolution did not involve
Speaker 2: the Big Bang.
Speaker 3: No, that's a way later. It's way late. He was just.
Speaker 2: Looking at some fucking, uh fuckingches, yeah, finches and shit,
Speaker 2: and going like, oh, it looks like species differentiate over time.
Speaker 3: He tasted a bunch of different birds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he ate every animal that he could and worked
Speaker 2: out a basic theory. So far, what we've got here
Speaker 2: is with Kent is a local pastor and teacher who's
Speaker 2: built a nice business for himself lecturing at churches and
Speaker 2: Bible schools about creationism. Now that's not a good thing,
Speaker 2: but on its own, that's not noteworthy enough to make
Speaker 2: him a subject of this episode. Right, there is something
Speaker 2: that makes Kent special, which is that he is one of,
Speaker 2: if not maybe the first of these kinds of guys
Speaker 2: to realize that the internet is about to be a
Speaker 2: huge deal and how to use the Internet in order
Speaker 2: to make a shitload of money for himself and build
Speaker 2: a following.
Speaker 3: Right he is.
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's the first of this kind
Speaker 2: of guy, but he's the first I'm aware of that
Speaker 2: really starts this with a website called doctor Dino. He
Speaker 2: makes me the mid nineties, Yeah, and he starts selling
Speaker 2: and collecting and whatnot a whole archive of creationist media
Speaker 2: all over the United States.
Speaker 3: Oh, is that dinos we're breathing fire? It sure is, Molly,
Speaker 3: wait a second for that one. I don't care.
Speaker 2: His main business is himself. But he basically sees, if
Speaker 2: I film these presentations I've been giving it churches and
Speaker 2: edit them into videos and sell those videos or let
Speaker 2: people you know, eventually stream them online, that will expand
Speaker 2: my audience. And there's ways to get money out of
Speaker 2: those people. Right, I'm gonna pinish a clip from one
Speaker 2: of his Yeah, he pivots to video. He does it first. Right,
Speaker 2: here's one of his doctor Dino videos.
Speaker 4: Now, this one is called a parasofis had a weird
Speaker 4: bump on the back of his head. Some people think
Speaker 4: the parasol office was able to breathe fire. Who thinks
Speaker 4: that because that bump on his head was hollow and
Speaker 4: it's connected to his sinuses. I don't know about that,
Speaker 4: but interesting theory.
Speaker 3: It is not.
Speaker 4: I like the parasol office. But there's one thing about
Speaker 4: him I do not like so and I'm going to
Speaker 4: tell you about that in just a minute.
Speaker 2: Okay, The whole speech is like that, he like introduced
Speaker 2: a dinosaur, usually get things wrong about it, and then
Speaker 2: be like, I like this guy except for one thing
Speaker 2: about him, and then he'll move on to the next dinosaur.
Speaker 3: He didn't accept the Jesus as his Lord and savior.
Speaker 2: That is kind of where we're going here. But I
Speaker 2: do want to let you know, folks, there are not
Speaker 2: fire breathing No, no one thinks there were dinosaurs that
Speaker 2: breathed fire. That's not a thing that science believes. That's
Speaker 2: not a thing anyone has ever suggested, except for mediac phoven.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think this is part of like you get some
Speaker 2: of these weird creationist guys trying to where like both
Speaker 2: dinosaurs and myths about dragons together. Maybe that's where that
Speaker 2: comes out of. But anyway, here's how that whole speech
Speaker 2: thing culminates, right when he finally explains what he doesn't
Speaker 2: the one thing he doesn't like about all of these
Speaker 2: great dinosaurs.
Speaker 4: The one thing about all the dinosaurs I do not like.
Speaker 4: I don't like the way every time you pick up
Speaker 4: a book about dinosaurs, you open up to the first
Speaker 4: page and guess what it says, tillions of years ago
Speaker 4: dinosaurs lived on the earth.
Speaker 3: Man, that is not true.
Speaker 4: What you have to do, you have to get a
Speaker 4: little buzzer in your brain and whenever somebody tells you
Speaker 4: something that's not true, he say.
Speaker 3: Man, not true, I'm gonna have to go. Man, I
Speaker 3: can't hear, because that's not fair to the dinosaur. I
Speaker 3: like this dinosaur, except I don't like this one thing
Speaker 3: about him.
Speaker 2: The dinosaurs never said, They never concept of age, as
Speaker 2: far as we're aware, didn't write that book.
Speaker 1: Just wondering. Do you think that the costume department on
Speaker 1: Friends based Ross Guelers like work clothes off of Kent?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, they're both dinosaur scientists.
Speaker 2: Well, and I also I refuse to consume anything either
Speaker 2: of them make outside of their wheelhouse. Right, Ross is
Speaker 2: not allowed to be Ross from Friends. I'm very angry.
Speaker 2: I watched I watched some insane television show. I think
Speaker 2: it was about like climate change and ship it's on
Speaker 2: I think it might have been Netflix. And Ross from
Speaker 2: Friends is in a couple episodes because it like veers from.
Speaker 3: I've never seen him in anything but Friends. Does he
Speaker 3: still work?
Speaker 1: He was?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: Apparently, yes he was, he was. He was. He played
Speaker 1: Robert Kardashian in the o J series.
Speaker 2: There's the It's this, It's this show that sounds like
Speaker 2: a fever dream. It starts with like like climate conferences
Speaker 2: about like the impending disaster, and then like you know,
Speaker 2: the disaster really gets going in earnest and suddenly everything
Speaker 2: pivots to being I thought it was going to go
Speaker 2: like be hardcore like Zionist, but actually the point it
Speaker 2: seems to be making is that the real Jewish homeland
Speaker 2: is Miami, and there's like a synagogue they're trying to
Speaker 2: save in southern Florida from flooding, and Ross from Friends
Speaker 2: as to bribe congressman to do it.
Speaker 3: It gets arrested.
Speaker 1: Is it called Little Death?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, It's one of the weirdest shows I've
Speaker 2: ever seen.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's real.
Speaker 2: It felt like a fever dream. And then the entire
Speaker 2: show changes after the Ross.
Speaker 1: From Friends port called Little Death.
Speaker 2: It is definitely not called Little Death. Then it's called Extrapolations.
Speaker 1: Oh then what else Sissy ben in it's not on
Speaker 1: his IMDb.
Speaker 3: I think he might have funded the fucker. It's weird.
Speaker 3: He's weird in it.
Speaker 1: A few years back it, Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 3: It is an off putting show. I found it off.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, John Snow is in it.
Speaker 2: John Snow is in fact in it. Yeah, a lot
Speaker 2: of guys are in it. Edward Norton's a big part
Speaker 2: in it.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, I'll do this all my own time. Sorry.
Speaker 3: I was like, what a cast.
Speaker 1: It's a baffling show, Like, are you a guy who
Speaker 1: will always be known as playing one guy on a
Speaker 1: TV show? We'll cast you in this.
Speaker 2: We'll cast you. Edward Norton is more than that, not
Speaker 2: much more.
Speaker 1: He's Fight Club.
Speaker 2: He's in the only movie about the shitty town in Oklahoma.
Speaker 2: I grew up in Leaves of Grass.
Speaker 3: Good movie. It's also got one of the guys from
Speaker 3: Deadwood in it. Check it out.
Speaker 2: He plays himself and his twin brother. Anyway, So Kent,
Speaker 2: oh dinosaur, Yeah, we're talking about dinosaur.
Speaker 1: We got ross from Brinded.
Speaker 2: We got ross from Friended. You can't stop when you
Speaker 2: get when you get a little dose of vitamin R.
Speaker 2: So anyway, As a public speaker, Kent has a whole
Speaker 2: host of lions. He's got locked and loaded to get
Speaker 2: an audience's attention, and one of his favorite lines is
Speaker 2: one drop of water will cover the whole world if
Speaker 2: you spread it real thin. Kent states this as if
Speaker 2: it's a scientific fact.
Speaker 3: Don't worry.
Speaker 2: I found a again, because there's a lot of guys
Speaker 2: who are obsessed with Kent. I found a crazy person
Speaker 2: who seems to know math, who did a breakdown and
Speaker 2: calculates that this Kent is off by roughly a factor
Speaker 2: of one trillion here, which sounds right. I can't check
Speaker 2: that math.
Speaker 3: I don't know how to spread atoms. I don't know
Speaker 3: how big those are.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it does seem like that would have to
Speaker 2: be off by about a trillion or so. Honestly, that
Speaker 2: might be low.
Speaker 3: Guess if you're talking if you're talking about like baptismal water,
Speaker 3: I think it's more of a metaphor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's But he also there's nothing that's
Speaker 2: a metaphor for Kent. You can't have metaphors.
Speaker 3: In Kent's world.
Speaker 2: Everything has to be literally true, otherwise his entire conception
Speaker 2: of reality collapses. Kent also claims that birds are not
Speaker 2: descended from dinosaurs. Dinosaurs are also big, cold blooded lizards
Speaker 2: that live in Eden, which we know they're not. The
Speaker 2: reality is that dinosaurs really have very little to do
Speaker 2: with modern reptiles. But Kent has to deny the sweep
Speaker 2: of time necessary to allow birds to come about. So
Speaker 2: he claims, for example, that the Triceratops is just a
Speaker 2: Jackson's chameleon that got extra big because there was more
Speaker 2: oxygen back then. Like if you were to hook at
Speaker 2: Jackson's chameleon up to an O two tag, you could
Speaker 2: get to be huge.
Speaker 3: Why are we doing that? There is some some scientific
Speaker 3: credence to the idea that, like the amount of oxygen
Speaker 3: in the atmosphere. Sex used to be bigger because they
Speaker 3: break through pores in their skins, so they could be
Speaker 3: larger because of the different amount of But they're the
Speaker 3: same insects, you know, And it's like.
Speaker 5: You can't just if you just like you can't just
Speaker 5: make a common big oxygen I'm gonna I'm gonna put
Speaker 5: a pet chameleon inside of a hyperbaric chamber and I'm
Speaker 5: gonna grow.
Speaker 3: I'm going to one.
Speaker 2: Like. Look, if it worked that way, I would be
Speaker 2: psyched that the creationists were right, because then we'd have
Speaker 2: Triceratopsis to ride and that would be worth it. I'll
Speaker 2: lead a lot of crow to write a tri Serratos.
Speaker 3: Only inside your special oxygen chamber.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you would have probably have to keep the chamber.
Speaker 2: We just make the world a hyperbaric chamber. Perfect.
Speaker 1: This guy is just Christian science Alex Jones. It's very weird. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a little worse than does he start selling products.
Speaker 2: He's already selling products he's got.
Speaker 3: I'm interested in the.
Speaker 2: Merch videos and t shirts and toys, and obviously, like
Speaker 2: a lot of creationists, one of the things that helps
Speaker 2: stitch Kent's beliefs together is the existence of cryptids.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: If the Lockness Monster exists, right, it means that dinosaurs
Speaker 2: didn't die out all that long.
Speaker 3: Ago, exactly right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, Now, I know what a lot of you
Speaker 2: are asking at this point. Kent is clearly a ridiculous asshole.
Speaker 2: But is he really noteworthy? And I assure you he is.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about his his real evil shit
Speaker 2: in part two, but I want to start by laying
Speaker 2: out how much fucking money he makes doing this grift.
Speaker 2: In two thousand and three alone, Kent earned more than
Speaker 2: one point six million dollars in doctor Dino merchandise sales.
Speaker 2: From nineteen ninety five to nineteen ninety seven, his income
Speaker 2: tax bill alone was more than half a million dollars.
Speaker 2: And we know that because Kent was a tax protester
Speaker 2: and refused to pay his taxes for about thirty years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, of course he's a tax protester. I
Speaker 3: feel like, if you're truly only committed to God, is
Speaker 3: that like its own kind of sovereign citizen.
Speaker 2: He is a sovereign citizen, Molly, That's where this is headed.
Speaker 2: But yes, also he's his own kind of Christian sovereign
Speaker 2: citizen too. He does both. So in two thousand and one,
Speaker 2: he creates his first Bible based theme park, dinosauran venture
Speaker 2: land tagline where dinosaurs and the Bible meet. I've heard
Speaker 2: these described as being built in his backyard in Pensacola,
Speaker 2: but his backyard is like seven acres, so it's not
Speaker 2: like tiny. The park has an indoor science center filled
Speaker 2: with illustrated versions of the arguments Kent makes in his lectures.
Speaker 2: There's also an outdoor space with what can crudely be
Speaker 2: described as rides. One I've heard of is the jump Asaurus,
Speaker 2: which is just a trampoline next to a basketball hoop.
Speaker 2: Kids have a minute to make all the baskets they can,
Speaker 2: which will teach them that they have to be coordinated
Speaker 2: in order to spread God's message.
Speaker 3: No that's not said skid, that's nonsense.
Speaker 2: That's not all right. That's a trampoline next to a
Speaker 2: basketball court.
Speaker 5: This is.
Speaker 3: No I mean, look, I'm all for.
Speaker 2: Children risking their lives in dangerous games, but also, you know,
Speaker 2: they should be more fun than that. So for a
Speaker 2: while in the early aughts, some skeptic publications did a
Speaker 2: decent business making fun of Dinosaur Action Land. But what
Speaker 2: actually brought Kent down wasn't being wrong about everything, because
Speaker 2: that never hurts people's career. It was tax fraud. To
Speaker 2: describe what happened, and again, folks, this is a constant
Speaker 2: lesson in crime. Do whatever unethical shit you can get
Speaker 2: away with most evil things in the United States as
Speaker 2: long as you pay your taxes like just and the
Speaker 2: irs is not picky. You know, they don't care if
Speaker 2: you're a drug dealer. Just pay your taxes and you
Speaker 2: will avoid the easiest way to destroy your life as
Speaker 2: a person who is breaking the law.
Speaker 3: Because they'll get you in the end.
Speaker 2: They always say will, they will. They're actually know what
Speaker 2: they're doing. To describe what happened, next, I want to
Speaker 2: read a quote from a book by Professor Samuel Brunson
Speaker 2: called God and the IRS, which is about the difficulty
Speaker 2: the IRS has dealing with the religious right. It actually
Speaker 2: sounds very interesting. It's like seventy dollars for the kindle
Speaker 2: edition because it's a textbook, so I have not read
Speaker 2: the whole thing, but I found excerpts that yeah, because
Speaker 2: there's just a portion of it that deals specifically with Kent.
Speaker 3: Quote.
Speaker 2: Though creationism was Hoven's professional passion, it was far from
Speaker 2: his only interest. Hovind was also deeply dedicated to not
Speaker 2: paying taxes. Hovind was as dedicated a tax protester as
Speaker 2: in it he did not file a single federal tax
Speaker 2: return between nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety six. The
Speaker 2: IRS noticed and demanded that Hoven provide them with certain
Speaker 2: financial records. He refused. In fact, in his attempts to
Speaker 2: impede the IRS's investigation, Hovind went so far as to
Speaker 2: file a lawsuit against the IRS, demanding that the court
Speaker 2: order the IRS and it's a by court order, demanding
Speaker 2: that the court order the IRS and its agents stopped
Speaker 2: contacting and harassing him, and that it ordered the IRS
Speaker 2: to stay off his property. So, you know, taxes are complicated,
Speaker 2: but the IRS is a simple organization. They just want
Speaker 2: their money, and they've spent enough time as the bugbear
Speaker 2: of the Republican Party that they are leery of having
Speaker 2: public fights with religious conservative tax protesters, so they don't
Speaker 2: go hard after again. He stops paying his taxes in
Speaker 2: eighty nine, and they don't really come for him until
Speaker 2: two thousand and six, you know. And there's back and
Speaker 2: forths going on before then, in like the late nineties
Speaker 2: and early two thousands, but they don't really go for
Speaker 2: Bore until he makes it very clear that there is
Speaker 2: no other way for them to resolve this, right.
Speaker 3: I mean, he he could have just all this time
Speaker 3: but just been doing his taxes, but like doing them
Speaker 3: wrong and paying like ten dollars would have been fine,
Speaker 3: and they wouldn't and they wouldn't have wanted to come
Speaker 3: after a church. But if you go out in public
Speaker 3: and you say I don't have to pay my taxes
Speaker 3: because God said so.
Speaker 2: Right, right, And the big mistake he makes series Kent
Speaker 2: stakes the I r S's hesitation to go immediately nuclear
Speaker 2: on him as an actual victory. And so during this
Speaker 2: kind of awkward period where he's fighting back and forth
Speaker 2: with them, but they're not really coming after him, he
Speaker 2: decides he's like hacked the system, and he starts lecturing
Speaker 2: and selling book and video guides to not paying taxes.
Speaker 3: Oh, they love those times when you do that. That's
Speaker 3: the easy way to make free. There's this whole industry
Speaker 3: of guys who will like sell you their system for like, oh,
Speaker 3: if you just do this one secret loophole. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: not real, it's not real. I think the.
Speaker 2: Easiest way to make a lot of money doing unethical
Speaker 2: things would be to like become that kind of guy,
Speaker 2: but pay your taxes scrupulously, like run a business on
Speaker 2: how people can avoid taxes.
Speaker 3: But actually it's still funny to sell that shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well that's what that's what's
Speaker 2: going to happen to kin. So some of his new
Speaker 2: beliefs come to be based on the arguments of what
Speaker 2: are called sovereign citizens.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think there's a decent level of like at this point,
Speaker 2: kind of background osmosis information the average person has about
Speaker 2: sovereign citizens. But in brief, sovereign citizens are people who
Speaker 2: believe that the arcana of tax law and constitutional law
Speaker 2: is a magic spell to make the government go away.
Speaker 2: Right if you figure out the right way to cite
Speaker 2: legal precedent, then you can make the federal government not
Speaker 2: in charge of you, you know, which it doesn't really work.
Speaker 2: Sometimes the law can be like magic, but it never
Speaker 2: makes you not a subject of the state because it
Speaker 2: has a lot of guns. Ultimately, I've only ever.
Speaker 3: Seen it in person once, but I was sitting through
Speaker 3: docket call and this woman had some sort of like
Speaker 3: relatively minor traffic ticket that really got blown out of
Speaker 3: proportion because she refused to produce a driver's license. And so,
Speaker 3: you know, she comes up before the judge and she says, well,
Speaker 3: I do not contract with the Department of Motor Vehicles,
Speaker 3: and she just like every time the judge asked her
Speaker 3: a question or tried to get her to see something,
Speaker 3: she just kept saying, I do not contract with the
Speaker 3: Department of Vehicles. And it's like the judges like, it
Speaker 3: doesn't really matter if you do. No one really cares.
Speaker 2: Lady, I don't contract with the fucking us with the
Speaker 2: Department of Homeland Security. But that's not going to stop
Speaker 2: him from coming after me if I do certain things,
Speaker 2: you know, like you don't have to contract with the
Speaker 2: ATF to have to obey the rules They put in place.
Speaker 3: I do not contract with the Internal Revenue Service.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't care. They've got a lot of guns. Ultimately,
Speaker 2: it does come down to that.
Speaker 1: I kind of love that she was like, that's my line.
Speaker 3: Yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 2: I mean she got that from a guy like Kent, right,
Speaker 2: because absolutely kin gets Obviously I don't know who he
Speaker 2: gets brought into sovereign citizen. It's kind of like a
Speaker 2: decentralized cult ideology. But he starts spreading it too, like
Speaker 2: after he gets into it. Right, And here's a quote
Speaker 2: from one of the videos he puts out during this
Speaker 2: period of time that gives you an idea of how
Speaker 2: these people talk. I do not have or use a
Speaker 2: social Security number. Actually, no real person has a Social
Speaker 2: Security number. Notice on your Social Security card that your
Speaker 2: name is spelled with all capital letters. This designates the
Speaker 2: straw man business trust or corporation, not a person. Right,
Speaker 2: so you can you can sue or imprison the all
Speaker 2: caps straw man that my card is for. But that's
Speaker 2: not really me. So I don't have to go to
Speaker 2: prison for all of these crimes. Again, man, even if
Speaker 2: you were right, which you're not, this is nonsense, Like,
Speaker 2: there's not actually legal president is there. Even if there was,
Speaker 2: they all still have the guns. That's the like, as
Speaker 2: an anarchist, I also don't believe in the legitimacy of
Speaker 2: the state, but I recognize that they have more guns
Speaker 2: than me, you know, like ultimately, yeah, I'm going to
Speaker 2: try not to get them too angry at me because
Speaker 2: I don't want to get shot. I don't want to
Speaker 2: get a ruby ridge on my ass or something, you know,
Speaker 2: like the all.
Speaker 3: Caps and the all lowercase version of you neither wise bulletproof. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The one where I agree with them is that like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean the government is a big mafia, right, and
Speaker 2: I don't think it's very good. But you know, I
Speaker 2: recognize the reality that they don't care. If I can
Speaker 2: quote certain things like there's no magic spell to make
Speaker 2: them go away.
Speaker 3: Pocket constitution, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, your pocket Constitution's not going to save you on
Speaker 2: this stuff. In nineteen ninety eight, Kent filed a document
Speaker 2: with his local Clerk of Court where he claimed to
Speaker 2: be a sovereign citizen, not a citizen of the corporate
Speaker 2: government he believed was legally in control.
Speaker 3: So not real. The notary was like, I mean, I'll
Speaker 3: stamp it.
Speaker 2: But quote this, in Hoven's eyes, severed all ties between
Speaker 2: Kent Hovend and all caps Kent Hoven. In two thousand
Speaker 2: and one, nevertheless, he signed Kent Ehovend above a Kin
Speaker 2: Ehoven cap all caps signature light. So you're not even
Speaker 2: consistent about your nonsense.
Speaker 3: Kent gotta file a new form.
Speaker 2: Kent declared he and his wife immune to all previously
Speaker 2: incurred debts, including the money they owed to the irs,
Speaker 2: by revoking their power of attorney with the Clerk of Courts.
Speaker 2: They argued that Social Security was a Ponzi scheme which
Speaker 2: covered up the factor of the US government, or in
Speaker 2: their eyes, the government that ran corporation or whatever that
Speaker 2: ran the US government was bankrupt. They referred to themselves
Speaker 2: as natural citizens of America, which is sovereign citizen language
Speaker 2: that basically means I am a citizen of the literal land,
Speaker 2: not this fake thing masquerading as a government. Now, that's
Speaker 2: all pretty standard sob sit ideology. What's interesting to me is,
Speaker 2: in all the years after he filed this paperwork, he
Speaker 2: starts to mold his ideology and begins packaging it in
Speaker 2: new ways to audiences full of Christians who are just
Speaker 2: sure that can't legally be required to pay taxes for
Speaker 2: other people to use the roads right. Kent's method of
Speaker 2: justifying this was novel and a lot easier to sell
Speaker 2: to a wide audience than the kind of arcane sovereign
Speaker 2: citizen mythology that he buys into. Here's Professor Bronson again.
Speaker 2: He ultimately rests his belief that he owes no taxes,
Speaker 2: at least to the extent anything besides bald greed underlies
Speaker 2: that belief. On his status as a Christian and a minister.
Speaker 2: He believes that something about being a religious believer makes
Speaker 2: him different from the vast majority of his fellow citizens.
Speaker 2: This difference, he believes, is it self sufficient to excuse
Speaker 2: him from paying taxes. That is, in Hoven's mind, there
Speaker 2: is something about the economics of religious practice that materially
Speaker 2: alters the secular assumptions that underlie the tax law. Hoven's
Speaker 2: understanding of the difference that frees him from the clutches
Speaker 2: of the taxation that his fellow citizens face comprises two parts,
Speaker 2: one descriptive and one normative. Descriptively, he argues that he
Speaker 2: is a minister, and as a minister, everything he owns
Speaker 2: belongs to God. Normatively, he argues that he should not
Speaker 2: be subject to earthly taxation on money he earns doing
Speaker 2: God's work. True, and this is there's still a lot
Speaker 2: of people who will argue this in different ways, and
Speaker 2: they get away with that actually a lot of the time, right,
Speaker 2: Like churches do a lot of shit, they shouldn't be
Speaker 2: aga if he.
Speaker 3: Just hired an accountant, If he hire real accountant and
Speaker 3: did a little paperwork, half of that could be true.
Speaker 2: He could get away with a lot of his tax
Speaker 2: burden and the iris wouldn't be willing to fight him
Speaker 2: on it.
Speaker 3: But he just refused to do the paperwork.
Speaker 2: I think the professor gets it right. He's just too greedy, right,
Speaker 2: Like he's not. He's a smarter man would recogniz that. Like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm a greedy asshole, but my greed has a limit,
Speaker 2: and like I don't want to. I know the government
Speaker 2: can only be pushed so far.
Speaker 3: Right, Like Jim Baker at least pretended to pay some taxes.
Speaker 2: He still did go to prison, by the way, where Kids'
Speaker 2: story's at it, But Molly, that's all gonna come in
Speaker 2: part two. Do you have anything to plug here? At
Speaker 2: the end of part one.
Speaker 3: Oh, gosh, I don't really, I don't really have anything
Speaker 3: to plug. I'm on the internet.
Speaker 2: It sucks on there, Molly's on the internet. We're raising
Speaker 2: funds again here behind the Bastards for the Portland Diaper Bank,
Speaker 2: which provides diapers for free to people who do not
Speaker 2: have enough money but have babies. You can go to
Speaker 2: go fund me Portland Diaper Bank, behind the Bastards Portland
Speaker 2: Diaper Bank. Go fund me and you will find the
Speaker 2: new GoFundMe for that and you can donate money to
Speaker 2: it and help out some people who don't have enough
Speaker 2: money for diapers, which is a good thing.
Speaker 3: Diapers cost a fortune. Surprisingly are just crazy for babies. Babyhower. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like how are they getting away with this? I don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think big diaper, big diaper.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's really. That's the new military industrial complex.
Speaker 2: After Vietnam. They turned all of that body bag material
Speaker 2: into diapers and they're just making more money than ever.
Speaker 3: That's my and we had.
Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media have a couple of new shows that
Speaker 1: you should check out. The first is Offline, hosted by
Speaker 1: ed Zitron. Once or twice a week. They show about
Speaker 1: the tech industry and tech world and all things happening there.
Speaker 1: It is wonderful. And we also have a new new
Speaker 1: weekly show hosted by Jamie Loftus called Sixteenth Minute of Fame.
Speaker 1: It's all about the Internet's main characters and what happened
Speaker 1: to them after they went viral. So check that out
Speaker 1: and everything else for cool Zone at cool Zone Media. Molly,
Speaker 1: you're at Socialist dog Mom on Twitter at Craig and
Speaker 1: that's me. Did I forget anything else? Starboard? Did we
Speaker 1: do all the things?
Speaker 3: Nope?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 3: Yes, great bye, Go ride a dinosaur.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia
Speaker 1: dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.