WEBVTT - Part One: Kent Hovind: Fake Dinosaur Scholar and Accidental Child Killer

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to Behind the Bastards. Our guests for this week,

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<v Speaker 2>Molly Hunger Molly, Welcome to the Poor gam.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I'm excited. I'm excited, Molly. What do you know

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<v Speaker 3>about kent Hoven? When you first brought ken Hooven, I

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<v Speaker 3>had him mixed up with a different creation as with

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<v Speaker 3>the same initials. I was thinking of ken Ham. Oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Weird that they have the same initials.

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<v Speaker 3>So I have been to ken Ham's Creation Museum. We

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<v Speaker 3>are animatronic dinosaurs, but I have not been the kent

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<v Speaker 3>Hoven's dinosaur Land.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really weird now that you bring it up. I

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned hamm in here because he's like ham is the

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<v Speaker 2>good creationist park, right like if you've seen in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of like they put some money into that thing, Like

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<v Speaker 2>if you've been there, you've like if if you've seen

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<v Speaker 2>photos and stuff of like online, it's the one with

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<v Speaker 2>like you see like the diet there's like a stegosaurus

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<v Speaker 2>with a fucking saddle on it and stuff, and it's like, oh, Robert.

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<v Speaker 3>I will have to send you the picture of me

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<v Speaker 3>riding the trice Arato.

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<v Speaker 2>That's like a decent quality model, right Like at least

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<v Speaker 2>in the photos. It looks like they put some money

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<v Speaker 2>into that point.

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<v Speaker 3>I learned a lot about how humanity used to coexist

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<v Speaker 3>with the dinosaurs.

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<v Speaker 2>That's great, Molly, we'll be talking about that today. Kent

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<v Speaker 2>Hovend is like not even the Kirkland brand version of

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<v Speaker 2>that guy. He's the dollar General ken Ham right.

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<v Speaker 3>Signature.

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<v Speaker 2>You're right, he's he's the dollar General uh like brand

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<v Speaker 2>of that guy. Because he also has a dinosaur amusement park.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's dog shit and it killed a kid. So

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<v Speaker 2>we're gonna have fun with this guy, Mollie. We're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>have fun with this guy. So our subject to this

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<v Speaker 2>week is doctor Kent Hovind a real doctor.

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<v Speaker 3>It's never a real doctor on this show, mall.

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<v Speaker 2>Third of the time. Maybe it's a real doctor. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>He is a Christian educator with a passion for debating evolutionists.

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<v Speaker 2>He believes that evolution is a religion and arguing that

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<v Speaker 2>there were dinosaurs on Noah's Ark. He also runs, as

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<v Speaker 2>I said, a dinosaur slash Bible themed park that doubles

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<v Speaker 2>a compound for what is kind of a cult, a

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<v Speaker 2>lower case see cult. I will say, as cult leaders go.

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<v Speaker 3>He's not good at it.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe he doesn't really want that much control because he

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't seem to exercise as much of it as a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of them. But it's still pretty bad.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, I mean, if there's no automatic rifles or child marriage,

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<v Speaker 3>is it really a compound? Molly.

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<v Speaker 2>I will say there's probably automatic rifles because it is

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<v Speaker 2>an Arkansas, but as for the rest of it, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. He did get a kid killed there, so

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna say it's very good. Hey, everyone, Robert

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<v Speaker 2>here from the future, and I fucked up. I wrote

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<v Speaker 2>this both ways. The reality is that Kentovend now today

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<v Speaker 2>lives in Alabama, not Arkansas. I don't know why I

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<v Speaker 2>said Arkansas so much, other than I was very hungover

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<v Speaker 2>from a variety of gas station drugs when we recorded

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<v Speaker 2>this episode, so you can chalk that one up to

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<v Speaker 2>me being gas station sober these days. Again, Kent Hoven

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<v Speaker 2>lives in Alabama now, not Arkansas. I might argue that

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<v Speaker 2>some of this is the fault of people in both

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<v Speaker 2>Alabama and Arkansas from being two different states when we

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<v Speaker 2>all know they should be the same state, but that's

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<v Speaker 2>rather beside the point. Kent E. Hovend was born on

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<v Speaker 2>January fifteenth, nineteen fifty three. I think he was born

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<v Speaker 2>in Pensacola, Florida, but I don't feel great about my Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>not a good start.

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<v Speaker 3>He may not have been.

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<v Speaker 2>This may just be like bad AI summaries of stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>although I found it in places that are not AI generated.

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<v Speaker 2>But he seems to have immediately moved to East Peoria, Illinois,

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<v Speaker 2>and spent most of his childhood there. He's there until

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<v Speaker 2>he's like a young man. So I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>he was actually born in Illinois because I haven't really

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<v Speaker 2>found a good direct source on that, but probably born

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<v Speaker 2>in Florida, moved immediately to Illinois. I've come across basically

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<v Speaker 2>nothing solid about his childhood or his parents, except for

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that on numerous occasions he has said that

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<v Speaker 2>he accepted Jesus Christ as his savior on February ninth,

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty nine. So he's about sixteen. Yeah, yeah, that's great.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>We talk about this on the show occasionally, but it

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<v Speaker 2>bears reemphasizing that, like in our cultural memory, sixty nine

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<v Speaker 2>is like the summer of love, hippies and weed and

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<v Speaker 2>anti war protests and all that good stuff. That's a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty reductive picture of what's going on because right alongside

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<v Speaker 2>all of that stuff, the civil rights movement in Woodstock,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera, there's the birth of a subculture known as

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus People. Right, That's also a thing that's happening here.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a huge surgeon like really unhinged Christian evangelism. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>some of this is a reaction to the bad side

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<v Speaker 2>of the hippie years.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>You've got with free love comes a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>getting STDs. You have a lot of people overdosing on drugs.

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<v Speaker 2>You have swarms of young people who don't really have

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<v Speaker 2>any money crowding into San Francisco and winding up basically

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<v Speaker 2>living on the street. And a lot of these people

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<v Speaker 2>get like disillusioned and desperate. And one of the first

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<v Speaker 2>of them to get disillusioned is a guy named Ted Wise.

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<v Speaker 2>Wise was a saale maker who had a bad LSD

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<v Speaker 2>trip in nineteen sixty five and heard the voice of God.

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<v Speaker 2>That'll get you, Yeah, that'll get you. I I you know,

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<v Speaker 2>as a kid when I did drugs. You know, now,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm straight edge except for you know, the stuff you

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<v Speaker 2>can buy in gas stations. But as a kid, when

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<v Speaker 2>I started doing drugs, I had this like evangelical belief

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<v Speaker 2>that a lot of young people get that, Like, man,

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<v Speaker 2>if we could just put this shit in the water

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<v Speaker 2>supply and fix everything, that is not how drugs work.

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<v Speaker 2>I was very wrong to nineteen year.

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<v Speaker 3>Old were you in the CIA, Robert, Yes, yes, briefly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's what everyone says. No, it turns out drugs

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<v Speaker 2>can lead you in very bad directions, and that's what

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<v Speaker 2>happens with Wise. He starts working with a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>pastors in the Bay Area to take in runaway hippie

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<v Speaker 2>kids and turn them into evangelists. This thing that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of becomes the Jesus movement starts in northern California, but

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<v Speaker 2>soon there's coffee houses and soup kitchens, churches and farms

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<v Speaker 2>with communal living spaces, all real bent on Jesus all

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<v Speaker 2>over the country. Now, Kent doesn't graduate high school until

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy one, which puts him at the old end

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<v Speaker 2>of the Jesus People generation, and the evidence we have

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<v Speaker 2>suggests he was always more in the conservative end of

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<v Speaker 2>the Christian spectrum than some of the Eastern mysticism inspired

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus People, because, like you get a lot of in

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<v Speaker 2>some of the Christianity that comes out of the Jesus

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<v Speaker 2>People movement. You get a little bit of like, we've

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<v Speaker 2>thrown a little bit of Buddhism in here. We stuck

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of Yo him pisses in here. Yeah, we're

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<v Speaker 2>still hippies, you know, we are still smoking pot, right,

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<v Speaker 2>But the cultural weight of that swing towards evangelical Christianity

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<v Speaker 2>is definitely an influence on Ham. The preachers he's drawn to, though,

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<v Speaker 2>are men like Jack Hiles. Hiles is an obscure figure

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<v Speaker 2>to most Americans, but starting in the late nineteen fifties,

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<v Speaker 2>Hyles is kind of the He kind of invents megachurches.

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<v Speaker 2>That's who That's who Hiles is. He calls his church

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<v Speaker 2>the Independent Baptist Church, and he it's crowned a super

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<v Speaker 2>church by time in nineteen seventy five. Because he it's

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<v Speaker 2>not just a place where people will go on Sundays.

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<v Speaker 2>He builds a Bible college there, unaccredited obviously, he builds

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<v Speaker 2>what becomes one of the largest Sunday schools in the country.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's all these like ancillary buildings and programs attached

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<v Speaker 2>to the bigger chure, and so thousands of people become

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<v Speaker 2>members and it's this is kind of like the first

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<v Speaker 2>precursor to what becomes the megachurch, right, this is like

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<v Speaker 2>the Austrolopithecus of megachurches. Cool, So, yeah, that's Hiles's the's

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<v Speaker 2>that's who Kent is going to be kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>obsessed with as a kid.

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<v Speaker 1>And like a very triggering last name. For some reason,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like.

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<v Speaker 2>He should be British with that last ye, right, he

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<v Speaker 2>should be played by the guy who played Niles in Frasier.

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<v Speaker 1>Does it feels like it feels like there'd be a

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<v Speaker 1>villain in some movie with that name.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so played by christ He is kind of a villain,

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<v Speaker 2>and Christian Slater might be able to handle this role.

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<v Speaker 2>He can handle most things. He's a great actor. But

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<v Speaker 2>Hiles is a fundamentalist. He taught that people could not

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<v Speaker 2>be born again unless they were brought to Christ using

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<v Speaker 2>the King James Bible, which is that's a big thing

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<v Speaker 2>for I don't know, like a fifth of Christians in

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<v Speaker 2>the country today that like the King James Bible specifically

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<v Speaker 2>is the Word of God and all of the other

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<v Speaker 2>older or newer you know, translations and whatnot are wrong

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<v Speaker 2>in some way. You just have God came back to

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<v Speaker 2>do to drop like a mixtape, a remix of his

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<v Speaker 2>old hits, and this is the only thing you're allowed

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<v Speaker 2>to listen to now.

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<v Speaker 3>I love this stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Hovind also admired a guy named Bob Jones, Sr. Who

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna guess you've heard of, Oh.

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<v Speaker 3>I've heard of Jones University. Absolutely, yeah, Well this is

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<v Speaker 3>a fine institution.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, one of the great college one of the great

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<v Speaker 2>learning centers in our nation.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I've always said, can you really be learning

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<v Speaker 3>if you're not wearing pantyhose? No?

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<v Speaker 2>No, And Bob Jones Senior would say absolutely not. He

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<v Speaker 2>was an American evangelist, one of the first Christian radio stars,

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<v Speaker 2>and as you said, he founded Bob Jones University. He

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<v Speaker 2>was also a segregationist and one of the people who

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<v Speaker 2>felt like having a Catholic in the White House was

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<v Speaker 2>going to doom this nation to papist domination.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>He's one of those guys who would like rant about

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<v Speaker 2>the papists taking control of the government and me in

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<v Speaker 2>every word, oh what a different time. I almost have

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<v Speaker 2>trouble getting in the head of someone who is like

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<v Speaker 2>specifically scared that the Catholics are going to take over

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<v Speaker 2>this country, like we have one in there now and

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<v Speaker 2>he's like barely holding on.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, that's only because the power of the pope has waned. Robert.

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<v Speaker 3>If you had a more powerful pope, I think would

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<v Speaker 3>be would be really in trouble.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we need the pope needs a thousand blood sacrifices

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<v Speaker 2>to get his power level back up to where he

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<v Speaker 2>can he can cast Mammon out of the temples that

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<v Speaker 2>we've built in Capitol Hill. I think that's right, mammon. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the God of money. So Kin's personal pastor was

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<v Speaker 2>Lauren Dawson, whose gospel tape ministry was a groundbreaking Christian business,

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<v Speaker 2>sending more than ten thousand taped sermons ten thousand individual

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<v Speaker 2>tape sermons out to anyone who wanted to buy them.

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<v Speaker 2>This is like before the Internet. This is if you

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<v Speaker 2>want to spread your shit in an Internet like way.

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<v Speaker 2>This is kind of how a lot of shit spread

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<v Speaker 2>mimetically throughout the kind of what becomes the Christian right.

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<v Speaker 2>And Kent is going to devour every one of these

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<v Speaker 2>tapes he can get his hands on as a young man,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is where he learns the secrets of public

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<v Speaker 2>speaking and preaching. As a business. In fact, if I

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<v Speaker 2>had to draw together the similarities between the different guys

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<v Speaker 2>Kent admired as a boy, it would be that they

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<v Speaker 2>all succeeded in turning their faith into an industry or

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<v Speaker 2>industries instead of just a church.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, he's.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, money changing in the temple Jesus favorite thing.

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<v Speaker 3>We all know. He's huge into stuff. The Word of

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<v Speaker 3>God is for sale.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, Why wouldn't it be. He didn't come back

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<v Speaker 2>to rewrite the King James Bible for you to not

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<v Speaker 2>make a buck.

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<v Speaker 3>Off of it, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>So these guys are Kent's guiding light, and he saw

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<v Speaker 2>this like decides his future is in Christianity, not specifically

0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.120
<v Speaker 2>as a belief system or a way of life, because

0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.760
<v Speaker 2>he does not live a particularly Christian life, but as

0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.959
<v Speaker 2>a way to make a living. Specifically, he decides he's

0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.200
<v Speaker 2>going to make a living in Christian education. Here's what

0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.439
<v Speaker 2>he writes about his development past this point in twenty

0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.240
<v Speaker 2>twelve on a website called Creation Today, one of my

0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:31.320
<v Speaker 2>favorite news sources. Molly his keen interest in math and

0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.040
<v Speaker 2>science throughout his high school career prompted his enrollment at

0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Illinois Central College as a science major after two years

0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:39.959
<v Speaker 2>of undergraduate work there and feeling God calling him to

0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:43.200
<v Speaker 2>full time Christian service, he completed his Bachelor of Religious

0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Education degree at Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan, in

0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.160
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy four. For fifteen years, Hovan taught high school

0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.079
<v Speaker 2>math and science, during which time he completed his master's

0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.559
<v Speaker 2>degree in education. While researching and writing his doctoral dissertation

0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.120
<v Speaker 2>on the subject of creation versus Evolution, he saw the

0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.760
<v Speaker 2>tremendous need for exposing evolution as a dangerous religious worldview

0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.920
<v Speaker 2>and for arming Christians with scientific evidence that there are

0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.600
<v Speaker 2>no contradictions between true science and the Bible. In response

0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:13.160
<v Speaker 2>to these needs, shortly after finishing his PhD in religious education,

0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:15.040
<v Speaker 2>he began a full time ministry.

0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.520
<v Speaker 3>Now, so he's teaching high school science. Not at all, Molly,

0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.520
<v Speaker 3>all of that's lies. Every word I read almost was

0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:24.679
<v Speaker 3>a lie.

0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:26.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, no.

0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.480
<v Speaker 2>No again. Seventy percent of the time. If I introduced

0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:33.280
<v Speaker 2>someone on their show as a doctor, they are not

0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.920
<v Speaker 2>in fact a doctor. And yeah, basically everything he put.

0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:40.439
<v Speaker 2>He may have done two years of college trying to

0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.240
<v Speaker 2>get a science degree, but he didn't get a science degree,

0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.400
<v Speaker 2>which is about as impressive as the two years I

0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.040
<v Speaker 2>spent considering getting a history degree, right, Like.

0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:49.840
<v Speaker 3>You didn't get it.

0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.600
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't matter really, But let's start with the most

0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:54.880
<v Speaker 2>basic claim up there, right, that he taught high school

0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.839
<v Speaker 2>math and science for fifteen years. This seems like it

0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.959
<v Speaker 2>would probably be true. People usually don't lie about being

0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.680
<v Speaker 2>a high school math and science teachers. And like, there's

0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:06.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot of teachers in the country, right. Teaching is

0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:10.200
<v Speaker 2>not an easy job, obviously, but it's not impossible for

0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.360
<v Speaker 2>cranks and weirdos to get teaching degrees.

0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.400
<v Speaker 3>Right, it happens. I've had a couple of them time

0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.800
<v Speaker 3>times and places where you don't even need a teaching degree. Yes, yeah,

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.160
<v Speaker 3>well that's exactly where Kent comes in. Right.

0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.400
<v Speaker 2>He does do some teaching, but it's not what you

0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.959
<v Speaker 2>or I would call high school math and science teaching.

0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.080
<v Speaker 2>The reality is that he gets teaching gigs at three

0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.280
<v Speaker 2>private Christian schools, none of which you're accredited, all of

0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.160
<v Speaker 2>which you're run out of churches, and one of them

0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.040
<v Speaker 2>is run out of a church that he founded. There

0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:39.640
<v Speaker 2>is no public record of him having a teaching career

0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.120
<v Speaker 2>or evidence that he ever taught at something the government

0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:47.720
<v Speaker 2>recognizes as a school, so there's no nothing behind that. Really,

0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.640
<v Speaker 2>he may have lectured about dinosaurs to some kids for

0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:53.400
<v Speaker 2>fifteen years, but we can't prove it.

0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.199
<v Speaker 3>The real science class is the friends we made along

0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:56.520
<v Speaker 3>the way.

0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:00.640
<v Speaker 2>That's right, Molly, that's right. So Kent worked as a

0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.880
<v Speaker 2>pastor and a not really a teacher teacher from nineteen

0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.000
<v Speaker 2>seventy five until around nineteen eighty eight. While he was

0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.640
<v Speaker 2>still in school. In nineteen seventy three, he married his

0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.280
<v Speaker 2>first wife, Joe. And I need to put emphasis on

0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.840
<v Speaker 2>the word first there, because for a man who believes

0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.600
<v Speaker 2>divorce is a sin, Kent Hoven does a lot of

0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:18.800
<v Speaker 2>getting divorced.

0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:19.600
<v Speaker 3>Not yet though.

0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:21.440
<v Speaker 2>He and Joe are going to have three kids from

0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.200
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy seven to nineteen seventy nine, which is too

0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:28.240
<v Speaker 2>fast to have three kids us. That's quite a rate,

0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:33.160
<v Speaker 2>poor Joe. Yeah. But in that time he started one

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 2>private Baptist school and he worked as an assistant pastor

0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.680
<v Speaker 2>at two others. In nineteen eighty nine, dismayed by the

0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:42.600
<v Speaker 2>growth of scientific rational thought in popular culture, he moved

0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:47.880
<v Speaker 2>to Pensacola and created a new ministry, Creation Science Evangelism.

0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.640
<v Speaker 2>The goal with this ministry was to promote creationism, and

0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.720
<v Speaker 2>he begins traveling around the world delivering lectures about how

0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.120
<v Speaker 2>to argue with evolutionists. He also sold merch, most of

0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:02.640
<v Speaker 2>it dinosaur themed, and this becomes a surprisingly successful business ultimately.

0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.160
<v Speaker 2>But it's a slow start at first, and we're going

0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 2>to cover what happens next. But first, Mollie, you know

0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:09.359
<v Speaker 2>what didn't get a slow start.

0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:12.120
<v Speaker 3>Away? Is it these products and services?

0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.320
<v Speaker 2>It's these excellent products and services that support our podcast

0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:24.480
<v Speaker 2>and or program. Ah, we're back, and Mollie, you were

0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:26.240
<v Speaker 2>just telling me that some other iHeart hosts have been

0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.280
<v Speaker 2>getting sent allergy medicine which I could sorely use right now.

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Do you know what drug it is?

0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.760
<v Speaker 3>Is that I'm being honest with you. I skip the ads,

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.440
<v Speaker 3>but I have the tail end of a couple of them.

0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:38.040
<v Speaker 3>Some of our colleagues.

0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 1>No, they're not giving us money yet, don't shill for that.

0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:41.920
<v Speaker 3>I know. I want to know what it is. I

0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.200
<v Speaker 3>want them to give us. Colleges are getting allergy pills

0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:44.520
<v Speaker 3>for free?

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:46.960
<v Speaker 2>Is it the stuff with methan? It because I missed

0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:49.400
<v Speaker 2>that ship that was good, that was the stuff that worked.

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 2>Everybody bullshit, I don't think.

0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.720
<v Speaker 3>I don't think out of a tin treats allergies. Literally,

0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:55.200
<v Speaker 3>that was.

0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.240
<v Speaker 1>The best allergy medicine. And then and then you they

0:15:58.320 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 1>put them behind the pharmacy and.

0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.360
<v Speaker 2>Because they're plusted people doing shaken bags, it's bullshit, Like,

0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.800
<v Speaker 2>what's the harm a little bit of picher?

0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.720
<v Speaker 1>Come on, that's the best I could ever breathe, to

0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.480
<v Speaker 1>be honest. And then all of a sudden they were gone,

0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:14.280
<v Speaker 1>and or you would go and buy them and you'd

0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.720
<v Speaker 1>buy a box and those were not the right bills.

0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah a time.

0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's it's it's we need to have like, if

0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.400
<v Speaker 2>we're going to have all of these guns be legal,

0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:27.120
<v Speaker 2>we need to have a standard where if you can't

0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.920
<v Speaker 2>prove something is scarier than an AR fifteen, it has

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.560
<v Speaker 2>to be legal, right, Like shake and bake biker meth,

0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 2>like that's not nearly as dangerous as guns. Let's let

0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.800
<v Speaker 2>let it. Let people buy it over the counter.

0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.280
<v Speaker 3>Come on, enjoy.

0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, come on, guys. We probably still have seat belts,

0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 2>but maybe we get rid of air bags for those

0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.360
<v Speaker 2>weird air bag fundamentalists. I feel like that's a voting block.

0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.480
<v Speaker 2>We might be able to conquer that kind of guy.

0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Molly, that's absolutely there's about a million of

0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:58.640
<v Speaker 2>those guys in the country, and if we get them

0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 2>on our side, we can legal lies the good allergy medicine.

0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:02.320
<v Speaker 3>Again.

0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.680
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, back to Kent, hovind So. Kent starts his new

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:10.280
<v Speaker 2>ministry in between earning his master's degree in Christian education

0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.600
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen eighty eight and his PhD in Christian education

0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:17.000
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety one. Now I know what you're asking, Mollie,

0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:21.320
<v Speaker 2>because you asked this earlier. Are those real degrees? Don't worry,

0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.680
<v Speaker 2>We're getting to it. So for the first years of

0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.040
<v Speaker 2>his career, though, he lectures dozens of times at schools

0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.359
<v Speaker 2>and Sunday schools and churches and Bible colleges. He says

0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:34.159
<v Speaker 2>he lectures at public schools. It's Arkansas and Florida, so

0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:38.640
<v Speaker 2>there's a good chance he's not lying. And his focus

0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.520
<v Speaker 2>is in laying tactics out for arguing against evolution.

0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:43.040
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.919
<v Speaker 2>He's particularly obsessed with public debates and arming his audiences

0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.960
<v Speaker 2>with this arsenal of gotcha lines that they can use

0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.719
<v Speaker 2>to win public confrontations, and a lot of it has

0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 2>to do with like setting the terms of the debate

0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:56.760
<v Speaker 2>in a way where you're not really arguing about evolution

0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:59.840
<v Speaker 2>or like trying to lead people into these logic traps.

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.200
<v Speaker 2>He thinks he's built. But here's an example of the

0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:03.320
<v Speaker 2>kind of shit he's doing.

0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:05.919
<v Speaker 4>Just you're gonna say, and where did God come from?

0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.640
<v Speaker 4>I don't know, but you said twenty billion years ago

0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:11.920
<v Speaker 4>there was a big bang, and you don't know where

0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.960
<v Speaker 4>the dirt came from. So basically, I believe in the

0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:20.640
<v Speaker 4>beginning God and you believe in the beginning dirt. Don't

0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.480
<v Speaker 4>tell me my theory is religious and yours is science.

0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:27.560
<v Speaker 4>Oh no, sir, they're both religious. The news media tries

0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:29.960
<v Speaker 4>to make it look like it is religion versus science.

0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:32.560
<v Speaker 4>I did a debate in El Paso, Texas here recently,

0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.520
<v Speaker 4>and the media wrote an article they said religious and

0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.800
<v Speaker 4>scientifically to urge debate evolution. What is the unspoken message

0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:40.320
<v Speaker 4>in that title?

0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:41.399
<v Speaker 3>What are they trying to imply?

0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:44.880
<v Speaker 4>Can you catch that? They're trying to imply that evolution

0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.800
<v Speaker 4>is part of science, aren't they? No, evolution is a religion.

0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.040
<v Speaker 3>It sounds like he's about to start rapping. It does

0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.879
<v Speaker 3>sound like he's about to drop a bar. Really, I

0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:55.960
<v Speaker 3>could feel it coming.

0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.639
<v Speaker 2>No, he doesn't have that Ben Shapiro level of versatility.

0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:01.680
<v Speaker 3>He's the bench of Bureau of Dinosaurs.

0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.600
<v Speaker 1>He is, he is. The background music is such a choice.

0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:11.479
<v Speaker 3>It's fascinating stuff. But like he's he's like why did

0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:12.719
<v Speaker 3>he do that? Singer?

0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you see what he's doing there though, right, he's

0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.520
<v Speaker 2>like number one, he's starting this is he's not starting

0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:23.040
<v Speaker 2>by talking about evolution, like he's he's literally immediately taking

0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:27.000
<v Speaker 2>the rails off of the debate because evolution has nothing

0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:29.919
<v Speaker 2>to do with the Big Bang, right, Like he starts

0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.640
<v Speaker 2>by talking about the formation of the universe, and there's

0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.400
<v Speaker 2>actually always going to be a degree of unknown, right,

0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.359
<v Speaker 2>like we're never going to get perfect. Now I would

0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.760
<v Speaker 2>disagree with him. There's actually quite a bit because of

0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.280
<v Speaker 2>the way that like looking at shit in space works,

0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:44.239
<v Speaker 2>there's quite a bit that we can observe about the

0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.479
<v Speaker 2>early days of the universe that we simply cannot observe

0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:49.880
<v Speaker 2>about like his beliefs about a god. But that has

0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.359
<v Speaker 2>nothing to do with evolution, which is like again like

0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.119
<v Speaker 2>mutations and changes in time over species, you know, aggregating

0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:59.400
<v Speaker 2>over the course of incredibly long periods of time, right,

0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.320
<v Speaker 2>Like that has nothing to do with like the Big Bang,

0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.480
<v Speaker 2>and it's separate things.

0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:07.600
<v Speaker 3>But like at the end of the day, like, I'm

0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:11.800
<v Speaker 3>not an astrophysicist. I cannot tell you how dirt accreted

0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:14.760
<v Speaker 3>in the emptiness of space to form Earth because that's

0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:16.920
<v Speaker 3>not my business. That's not my business. But I can

0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.359
<v Speaker 3>tell you that a child never wrote a dinosaur. Okay,

0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:21.480
<v Speaker 3>I can't tell you a child never wrote a dinosaur.

0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:23.600
<v Speaker 2>And I can tell you that just like you know,

0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.160
<v Speaker 2>when we get into like the the arcana of astrophysics, Yeah,

0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.040
<v Speaker 2>that's a lot of that's over my head. Will we

0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.720
<v Speaker 2>get into the basics of evolutionary theory, all of that

0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:35.439
<v Speaker 2>makes complete sense. I understand that quite well, Like, because

0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:37.160
<v Speaker 2>you can see there's variance in just.

0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:37.760
<v Speaker 3>Like the people.

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:39.879
<v Speaker 2>You know, if you've had a bunch of different dogs

0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.480
<v Speaker 2>and cats, there's variants in them. And some of the

0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:46.520
<v Speaker 2>different variants that occurs naturally as animals breed are going

0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.679
<v Speaker 2>to be more adaptive to their environment than others, and

0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.479
<v Speaker 2>over time that will change the species, and that will

0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.840
<v Speaker 2>lead to like the splitting into different species. Right, you

0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.120
<v Speaker 2>can see it on a micro scale in your own

0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.600
<v Speaker 2>life if you have animals, and you can understand how,

0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:03.920
<v Speaker 2>over the course of billions of years, it would lead

0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.360
<v Speaker 2>to much more drastic changes than you see in like

0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:08.159
<v Speaker 2>a few generations of goats.

0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.760
<v Speaker 3>Are Yeah, but who invented dirt, Robert, But who invented dirt? Gotcha?

0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:18.120
<v Speaker 3>I got you. I find it very frustrating. Yeah.

0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.239
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, I want to play one more clip to you

0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:22.120
<v Speaker 2>of Kent before we move on. And this isn't him

0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:25.200
<v Speaker 2>talking about evolution, but I came across it in my research,

0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:27.720
<v Speaker 2>and I do think it sets up some things about

0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:29.080
<v Speaker 2>the kind of man he is.

0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:34.480
<v Speaker 3>This clip is called Kentoven goes Bananas. It sure is. Molly,

0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:35.720
<v Speaker 3>I was about six years old.

0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:37.800
<v Speaker 4>I was raised in East Peoria, Illinois.

0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:39.919
<v Speaker 3>By the way, I know, I'm in Tennessee. But are

0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.720
<v Speaker 3>there any more Yankees in the crowd? Any Yankees out there? Five?

0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:44.800
<v Speaker 4>Six, seven?

0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:45.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay?

0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:46.640
<v Speaker 3>How many Southerners do we have?

0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:47.960
<v Speaker 4>Ooh?

0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:50.159
<v Speaker 3>Well, just remember who won?

0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:55.879
<v Speaker 2>If you would, I know what over you.

0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:57.320
<v Speaker 3>I couldn't help that.

0:21:57.440 --> 0:21:58.639
<v Speaker 4>But I did move to Florida as soon as I

0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:00.000
<v Speaker 4>got smart enough to figure out you know this.

0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:05.200
<v Speaker 3>Again, So I just I needed to play that little bit.

0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.919
<v Speaker 2>About to sell rising again to let people know that

0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:14.119
<v Speaker 2>he's down with the Confederacy, that he didn't all wasn't always,

0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:15.120
<v Speaker 2>but now he knows they.

0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:17.920
<v Speaker 3>Were remembering who won. But it's not over. But it's

0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:20.240
<v Speaker 3>not over. It's such a weird splitting.

0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:25.000
<v Speaker 1>I enjoy his five six seven hand motions.

0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:30.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that's that's those are like workmanlike public speaking,

0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:32.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, tech tactics.

0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:34.720
<v Speaker 3>He's not bad at he's good at it. Actually you

0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:37.760
<v Speaker 3>have to give him. Yeah.

0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:40.680
<v Speaker 2>So one of the nice things about Kent, about writing

0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:42.800
<v Speaker 2>about Kent, and also one of the frustrating things, is

0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:47.320
<v Speaker 2>that he started reaching for prominence as a creationist debate

0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:49.440
<v Speaker 2>bro effectively in the nineties.

0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:50.000
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:53.919
<v Speaker 2>And if you if you remember the Internet of like

0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:57.159
<v Speaker 2>particularly the mid to late nineties early two thousands, a

0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.920
<v Speaker 2>huge thing on the Internet back then was inner atheists,

0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:04.560
<v Speaker 2>and this community sometimes called the skeptic community. It's split

0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.000
<v Speaker 2>in a number of directions. In the modern era, some

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:09.679
<v Speaker 2>of these people have gone in very heartbreaking directions.

0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:09.960
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:12.240
<v Speaker 2>We can talk about Richard Dawkins being like, now I'm

0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:15.120
<v Speaker 2>a cultural Christian because I hate Islam so much. Right,

0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:18.119
<v Speaker 2>But there was this there was this kind of not

0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:20.800
<v Speaker 2>even brief, like a decade period where like there was

0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:25.040
<v Speaker 2>an army of everyone from like forum trolls to like

0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:29.080
<v Speaker 2>guys like Dawkins who were just committed, like like pitbulls,

0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:32.639
<v Speaker 2>to like hanging on and like latching onto arguments with

0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Christians over creationism.

0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:36.000
<v Speaker 3>Right, I'm going to get.

0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:38.000
<v Speaker 2>One or both kinds of pitbull people angry at me

0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:41.000
<v Speaker 2>for that comment. Look, I've been attacked by.

0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:46.080
<v Speaker 3>Either way. Bill Maher is gonna becoming for me.

0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:49.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's another one of these guys. Right, And because

0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:52.800
<v Speaker 2>because he was so prominent during this period of time,

0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:58.320
<v Speaker 2>there was like a whole information ecosystem dedicated to attacking Kentoven.

0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:01.119
<v Speaker 2>There were entire websites that are just picking apart his

0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:05.000
<v Speaker 2>whole life and backstory with surgical precision because he pissed

0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:08.600
<v Speaker 2>off just some of these these maniac internet atheists who

0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:11.920
<v Speaker 2>I love, I have very fond memories of, but who

0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:14.800
<v Speaker 2>like clearly were the kind of damaged where they would

0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:17.639
<v Speaker 2>spend seventy hours a week writing about Kent Hovind. You know,

0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:19.920
<v Speaker 2>like it's the thing we don't really have that anymore

0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:21.960
<v Speaker 2>on the Internet, Like Kiwi Farms.

0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:24.520
<v Speaker 3>We have Kiwi Farm, but I feel like these people

0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.400
<v Speaker 3>have the same sort of mental derange the Kiwi Farms user, but.

0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:31.080
<v Speaker 2>They're not, you know, it's it's much more ethical because

0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:35.120
<v Speaker 2>they're never going after harmless people like kitimately a bad

0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:35.600
<v Speaker 2>guys the.

0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:38.680
<v Speaker 3>Same level of fixation, but targeted in a good direction.

0:24:38.800 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and targeted much more narrowly. Right, we just can't

0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:43.600
<v Speaker 2>focus the way we used to, Mollie.

0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:47.080
<v Speaker 3>So it's just information overload. Yeah.

0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:49.960
<v Speaker 2>One of the most detailed sites to pick apart Kent's

0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:54.000
<v Speaker 2>life was kenthovend dot com, run by John Steer. Today

0:24:54.040 --> 0:24:56.639
<v Speaker 2>the website is most accessible through the wayback machine, and

0:24:56.680 --> 0:24:58.720
<v Speaker 2>if you want an idea of its age, there was

0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:01.159
<v Speaker 2>a running tally at the top of every page counting

0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 2>up the total cost of the Iraq War. So it's

0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:08.240
<v Speaker 2>like again, like just for a snapshot of the time.

0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:10.200
<v Speaker 3>This was written a beautiful time capsule.

0:25:10.320 --> 0:25:10.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:25:10.600 --> 0:25:13.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's magical stuff. It really brought me back to

0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:17.240
<v Speaker 2>my teenage years. So on that website, one of the

0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:19.320
<v Speaker 2>there's like a Q and a portion and one of

0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:22.119
<v Speaker 2>the questions is is doctor Hoven a real doctor? And

0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:28.879
<v Speaker 2>Steer writes yes and no. So it turns out Hovend

0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:32.680
<v Speaker 2>did get a religious based PhD from Patriot University, which

0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:37.840
<v Speaker 2>then changed its name to Patriot Bible University. They throw

0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:40.400
<v Speaker 2>a Bible in there, Molly, how does that not work better,

0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:44.159
<v Speaker 2>it's worse. It's better because it makes the acronym PBu

0:25:44.359 --> 0:25:47.080
<v Speaker 2>instead of PU. Right, Like, that's just not great for

0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:50.399
<v Speaker 2>they should have thought about that, but I don't know.

0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:53.960
<v Speaker 2>Despite that questionable name, PBu has been authorized by the

0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:58.120
<v Speaker 2>Colorado Commission of Higher Education as a seminary or Bible college,

0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:03.200
<v Speaker 2>which means it can grant religeigeous degrees, but only religious degrees.

0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:06.960
<v Speaker 2>It wouldn't be entirely fair to say these aren't real

0:26:07.320 --> 0:26:10.040
<v Speaker 2>in the legal sense. But also Kent is going to

0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:14.560
<v Speaker 2>spend decades identifying himself as a PhD in education and

0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:19.000
<v Speaker 2>authoring scientific papers and calling himself a doctor, both to

0:26:19.080 --> 0:26:22.240
<v Speaker 2>insinuate that his PhD has something to do with science

0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:27.440
<v Speaker 2>or evolution. It does not, Steer writs quote. Patriot University

0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:31.040
<v Speaker 2>also claims to be accredited by an unrecognized American Accrediting

0:26:31.080 --> 0:26:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Association of Theological Institutions, which operates from the same po

0:26:35.520 --> 0:26:39.480
<v Speaker 2>box as a as Christian Bible College. Both AAATI and

0:26:39.560 --> 0:26:42.760
<v Speaker 2>CBC are run by Cecil Johnson, and CBC is only

0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:46.760
<v Speaker 2>accredited by you guessed at AAATI. This blatant conflict of

0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:49.880
<v Speaker 2>interest could be a litmus test for the quality of AAATI.

0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:54.560
<v Speaker 2>So I decided to look into this AATI, this accrediting

0:26:54.680 --> 0:26:59.240
<v Speaker 2>organization that accredits the organization that runs.

0:26:59.000 --> 0:27:01.360
<v Speaker 3>It, right, and it's just a diploma mill. Right.

0:27:01.680 --> 0:27:03.240
<v Speaker 2>For years, it would offer you if you wanted to

0:27:03.280 --> 0:27:06.240
<v Speaker 2>start your own Bible school, they would accredit your Bible

0:27:06.240 --> 0:27:09.080
<v Speaker 2>school for one hundred dollars plus seventy five bucks a year.

0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:13.360
<v Speaker 2>But the federal government does not recognize AAATI accreditation.

0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:17.040
<v Speaker 3>Right, didn't unders Bravik run a similar scam for years?

0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, he might, Yeah, I think he did. I

0:27:19.840 --> 0:27:21.800
<v Speaker 2>don't have much enough recollection of that to want.

0:27:21.720 --> 0:27:26.840
<v Speaker 3>To get into it. But we'd make fake diplomas, so yeah,

0:27:26.880 --> 0:27:29.040
<v Speaker 3>I mean, good company, good company. We need to get

0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:31.679
<v Speaker 3>into the fake diploma business, Molly. I'm getting a doctorate

0:27:31.760 --> 0:27:32.160
<v Speaker 3>right now.

0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:36.040
<v Speaker 2>I think I could offer degrees, and I feel like

0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 2>we should just try for medical degrees. Like, let's just

0:27:39.119 --> 0:27:42.280
<v Speaker 2>see if we can get people putting out pills. You know,

0:27:43.920 --> 0:27:47.119
<v Speaker 2>I think it's worth a shot. So if we'll debate

0:27:47.119 --> 0:27:49.840
<v Speaker 2>this in private, Molly, Molly's on my side, though I

0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:51.080
<v Speaker 2>can tell she thinks this is a.

0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:53.280
<v Speaker 3>Good speaking of idea.

0:27:53.920 --> 0:27:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Mollie, would you like to see Patriot Bible University? Because

0:27:59.119 --> 0:28:01.840
<v Speaker 2>it started as a Bible college in Dallas, Texas, but

0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:04.240
<v Speaker 2>it moved to Colorado and it is currently based in

0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:11.280
<v Speaker 2>what appears to be a double wide trailer. No, it's

0:28:11.440 --> 0:28:17.400
<v Speaker 2>it's beautiful where they have parking. Year My college didn't

0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:19.440
<v Speaker 2>have nearly this good parking situation.

0:28:19.720 --> 0:28:21.960
<v Speaker 3>This is like the front office, like where's the where's

0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:24.680
<v Speaker 3>the rest? This is a man's house, Molly.

0:28:24.800 --> 0:28:29.720
<v Speaker 2>This isn't even a front office, is uh? And having

0:28:29.840 --> 0:28:32.520
<v Speaker 2>lived in trailers, I can say this isn't a particularly

0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:36.760
<v Speaker 2>nice one. Where does the students go, Yeah, they don't, Mollie.

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:38.760
<v Speaker 2>They send their money and in letters and they get

0:28:38.800 --> 0:28:39.760
<v Speaker 2>degrees in the mail.

0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:42.480
<v Speaker 3>It's just a guy with a xerox machine. It's a

0:28:42.520 --> 0:28:45.640
<v Speaker 3>guy with a Xerox MASSIONEID. Yeah, solid, So I could

0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:47.800
<v Speaker 3>be I could be a doctor. You could be a doctor.

0:28:47.800 --> 0:28:49.680
<v Speaker 2>It costs about nineteen hundred dollars, or at least it

0:28:49.720 --> 0:28:52.160
<v Speaker 2>did twenty years ago. I'm not sure now a steal.

0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:58.000
<v Speaker 2>It's a good price. So Patriot Bible University teaches youngerth

0:28:58.040 --> 0:29:02.840
<v Speaker 2>creationism and charges monthly, which Wikipedia notes makes it unlike

0:29:02.920 --> 0:29:04.240
<v Speaker 2>most universities.

0:29:05.680 --> 0:29:08.920
<v Speaker 3>They're on the deca semester system.

0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:13.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that is Unlike most real schools.

0:29:13.680 --> 0:29:15.640
<v Speaker 3>Students can be predo decamesters.

0:29:16.520 --> 0:29:19.160
<v Speaker 2>Students can prepay for degrees, and in two thousand and

0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:22.040
<v Speaker 2>two they offered a buy three, get one free credit deal,

0:29:22.160 --> 0:29:24.480
<v Speaker 2>which definitely sounds okay.

0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:26.680
<v Speaker 3>I found a copy.

0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Of their internal magazine from two thousand and two, and

0:29:29.960 --> 0:29:31.680
<v Speaker 2>this is a little off topic, but they have a

0:29:31.680 --> 0:29:35.280
<v Speaker 2>whole page dedicated to suggested church signs. I want to

0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:37.600
<v Speaker 2>go through some of these, moll you want to.

0:29:37.480 --> 0:29:38.520
<v Speaker 3>Just read through these?

0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

0:29:39.360 --> 0:29:41.640
<v Speaker 3>I love that because you see these. You know, you

0:29:41.640 --> 0:29:45.840
<v Speaker 3>guys aren't in the South, but yeah, when you drive drive,

0:29:46.160 --> 0:29:48.520
<v Speaker 3>you drive a rural road, you know, through the country South,

0:29:48.560 --> 0:29:51.040
<v Speaker 3>and you gotta wonder, like, are they getting these from

0:29:51.080 --> 0:29:53.239
<v Speaker 3>a magazine? And I guess the answer is yes, some

0:29:53.320 --> 0:29:54.560
<v Speaker 3>of them. Yes, let's pop.

0:29:54.640 --> 0:29:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Let's let's popcorn. Read.

0:29:56.400 --> 0:29:56.720
<v Speaker 3>I'll go.

0:29:56.920 --> 0:30:04.120
<v Speaker 1>I'll go first. God answers email Jesus at.

0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:08.320
<v Speaker 3>The best vitamin for a Christian is B one? What

0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:11.520
<v Speaker 3>does that even mean? Like vitamin B one? Like B two,

0:30:11.560 --> 0:30:14.040
<v Speaker 3>B twelve? Yeah? But what is what is the put?

0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:14.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh?

0:30:14.960 --> 0:30:18.680
<v Speaker 3>Like, the best vitamin for is to be is to

0:30:18.680 --> 0:30:21.480
<v Speaker 3>be one Christian. That's not a good pun to.

0:30:21.480 --> 0:30:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Be one with Christ strawberty.

0:30:23.280 --> 0:30:25.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, is B one even one of the B vitamins.

0:30:26.720 --> 0:30:28.479
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it is. I've never heard of it.

0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:30.560
<v Speaker 2>I think I think this is just a bad joke.

0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:34.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, there is a vitamin there that's good.

0:30:34.320 --> 0:30:37.719
<v Speaker 2>That shows how much we know about vitamins. Here's another one, tithe.

0:30:37.760 --> 0:30:41.680
<v Speaker 2>If you love Jesus, anyone can honk, which seems kind

0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:45.000
<v Speaker 2>of desperate. You don't even have to love Jesus.

0:30:46.840 --> 0:30:47.160
<v Speaker 4>Wow.

0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:49.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I know they're saying, tie if you love Jesus

0:30:49.520 --> 0:30:53.000
<v Speaker 2>because honking is too easy, like you, if you're just honking. Yeah,

0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:55.360
<v Speaker 2>give us money, fuck you, give us money.

0:30:56.760 --> 0:31:00.240
<v Speaker 1>A clear conscience makes a soft hello.

0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:06.000
<v Speaker 3>Mm there you go, prevent truth decay. Brush up on

0:31:06.080 --> 0:31:06.640
<v Speaker 3>your Bible.

0:31:07.320 --> 0:31:09.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there are people who are brushing their teeth

0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:14.280
<v Speaker 2>with their Bibles that read this magazine. Christians keep the faith,

0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:20.720
<v Speaker 2>but not from others, and don't don't keep let everybody

0:31:20.720 --> 0:31:25.120
<v Speaker 2>into Christianity. And what part of thou shalt not? Don't

0:31:25.160 --> 0:31:27.080
<v Speaker 2>you understand you didn't yell.

0:31:26.960 --> 0:31:28.840
<v Speaker 1>Thou shalt not. It's in all caps.

0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:32.080
<v Speaker 3>It isn't all caps. It isn't all caps. These aren't

0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:35.040
<v Speaker 3>even good like I've seen. Of course they're not good.

0:31:35.400 --> 0:31:37.040
<v Speaker 3>I've seen a lot of these, and these ones aren't

0:31:37.040 --> 0:31:37.560
<v Speaker 3>even funny.

0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:40.600
<v Speaker 2>No, these are terrible. And it's filled with letters from

0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:43.800
<v Speaker 2>like students and graduates, this magazine and like inspirational little

0:31:43.920 --> 0:31:46.800
<v Speaker 2>essays on how if you want to be a good writer,

0:31:46.960 --> 0:31:49.680
<v Speaker 2>the best book to read is the Bible, which is

0:31:49.720 --> 0:31:53.200
<v Speaker 2>a professional writer. I have not found the Bible particularly helpful,

0:31:53.440 --> 0:31:56.400
<v Speaker 2>not saying it's not useful. It's a it's an incredibly

0:31:56.480 --> 0:31:59.520
<v Speaker 2>important historic document. I have gained value from reading the

0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Bible as historic document, but I didn't get value in

0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:07.800
<v Speaker 2>like learning how to write from it. Right you'll, yeah, yeah,

0:32:07.880 --> 0:32:10.640
<v Speaker 2>there's also a lot of bullshit like Leviticus you can

0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:13.920
<v Speaker 2>mostly cut, Like if I'm editing that thing, I'm chomping

0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:16.000
<v Speaker 2>down like half of those chapters.

0:32:16.120 --> 0:32:17.760
<v Speaker 3>Right, well, you know that what is it?

0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:18.440
<v Speaker 4>Like? What is it?

0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:21.680
<v Speaker 3>What is it from? I think it's from Proverbs about

0:32:21.720 --> 0:32:24.040
<v Speaker 3>like you know, the the idiot returns to his folly

0:32:24.120 --> 0:32:26.000
<v Speaker 3>like a dog returns to its vomit.

0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:27.880
<v Speaker 2>You know, that's that's not that that's not that's a

0:32:27.880 --> 0:32:30.800
<v Speaker 2>good line, Like you wouldn't keep some of gold? Like

0:32:30.840 --> 0:32:33.080
<v Speaker 2>if I'm I might, I might do what Thomas Jefferson

0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:35.000
<v Speaker 2>did and like do my own version of the Bible,

0:32:35.160 --> 0:32:37.760
<v Speaker 2>and we're just gonna cold open on Jesus fucking up

0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:40.240
<v Speaker 2>those money lenders in the Temple and then like freeze

0:32:40.280 --> 0:32:42.880
<v Speaker 2>frame and Jesus is like looks that look to looks

0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:51.080
<v Speaker 2>to camera and goes wondering we could make we can

0:32:51.160 --> 0:32:54.680
<v Speaker 2>make a solid nineties movie Jeremy Piven plays Jesus Christ.

0:32:54.960 --> 0:32:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Uh oh, yeah, probably shouldn't cast Jeremy Piven in anything anymore,

0:32:59.840 --> 0:33:05.880
<v Speaker 2>but I watched PCU recently, so anyway, I find this

0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:09.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff fascinating. As a young, angry atheist, magazines

0:33:09.800 --> 0:33:12.040
<v Speaker 2>like this kind of terrified me. But now it all

0:33:12.080 --> 0:33:14.320
<v Speaker 2>seems so quaint compared to a lot of what's gone

0:33:14.320 --> 0:33:16.960
<v Speaker 2>mainstream on the right. So I don't know, I don't

0:33:17.000 --> 0:33:19.360
<v Speaker 2>know where I land there. The essay that closes out

0:33:19.400 --> 0:33:22.360
<v Speaker 2>the issue is titled Age of Reasoning question Mark, and

0:33:22.400 --> 0:33:25.360
<v Speaker 2>it features a lengthy complaint that today's kids all know

0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:27.920
<v Speaker 2>about Snoop Dogg but not the Constitution.

0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:29.960
<v Speaker 3>Then it is I'm always saying this.

0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:32.400
<v Speaker 2>I will say I got a given credit. I learned

0:33:32.400 --> 0:33:35.520
<v Speaker 2>something maybe from this, And because it ends with an

0:33:35.520 --> 0:33:39.520
<v Speaker 2>insane story that I hadn't heard before, The story is

0:33:39.560 --> 0:33:43.040
<v Speaker 2>told of Franklin Roosevelt, who often endured long receiving lines

0:33:43.040 --> 0:33:45.320
<v Speaker 2>at the White House. He complained that no one really

0:33:45.320 --> 0:33:48.080
<v Speaker 2>paid attention to what was said. One day, during a reception,

0:33:48.160 --> 0:33:50.600
<v Speaker 2>he decided to try an experiment. To each person who

0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:52.640
<v Speaker 2>passed down the line and shook his hand, he murmured,

0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:55.760
<v Speaker 2>I murdered my grandmother this morning. The guests responded with

0:33:55.840 --> 0:33:58.720
<v Speaker 2>raises like marvelous, keep up the good work. We're proud

0:33:58.720 --> 0:34:00.760
<v Speaker 2>of you. God bless you, sir. It was not till

0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:02.760
<v Speaker 2>the end of the line, while greeting the ambassador from

0:34:02.760 --> 0:34:04.520
<v Speaker 2>Bolivia that his words were actually heard.

0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:05.360
<v Speaker 3>Nonplus.

0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:07.840
<v Speaker 2>The ambassador leaned over and whispered, I'm sure she had

0:34:07.840 --> 0:34:10.640
<v Speaker 2>it coming. Now that's a fun plead story.

0:34:10.760 --> 0:34:12.320
<v Speaker 3>That's true. Please tell me that's true.

0:34:12.920 --> 0:34:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Unclear, Molly, because I had the same reaction as you

0:34:16.160 --> 0:34:17.680
<v Speaker 2>when I read that, I was like, well, I want

0:34:17.719 --> 0:34:18.520
<v Speaker 2>that to be true.

0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:21.719
<v Speaker 3>That would make me like FBR so much more.

0:34:24.960 --> 0:34:27.800
<v Speaker 2>But I googled around. Snopes has looked into the matter,

0:34:27.880 --> 0:34:30.200
<v Speaker 2>and the answer is it's like a maybe, it's kind

0:34:30.200 --> 0:34:31.920
<v Speaker 2>of right on the line right. It seems to have

0:34:31.960 --> 0:34:35.080
<v Speaker 2>originated this story in a nineteen fifty three book titled

0:34:35.280 --> 0:34:38.359
<v Speaker 2>The Complete Spelled in a Weird Way Practical Joker by

0:34:38.600 --> 0:34:41.800
<v Speaker 2>h Allen Smith, who was a journalist and a comedy writer.

0:34:42.239 --> 0:34:45.160
<v Speaker 2>And like, it's unclear if this is just bullshit or

0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:48.520
<v Speaker 2>a thing he actually heard or witnessed. It may have

0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:50.080
<v Speaker 2>just been a story that went around.

0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:50.560
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:53.200
<v Speaker 2>My guess is this is probably not literally true, but

0:34:53.239 --> 0:34:54.600
<v Speaker 2>we can choose to believe this.

0:34:54.800 --> 0:34:58.439
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this could be our episode about faith, right, Yeah,

0:34:58.440 --> 0:34:59.520
<v Speaker 3>and I have faith.

0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:05.640
<v Speaker 2>So back to Kent Hoven, his first PhD. He's going

0:35:05.680 --> 0:35:07.880
<v Speaker 2>to get three more and all of them are equally bullshit.

0:35:08.280 --> 0:35:12.319
<v Speaker 2>Did require him to produce a doctoral dissertation? Yes, these

0:35:12.360 --> 0:35:14.920
<v Speaker 2>are an important part of real life PhD programs. And

0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:17.920
<v Speaker 2>a key aspect of like writing a thesis, right, is

0:35:17.960 --> 0:35:21.040
<v Speaker 2>that to get your doctorate you have to publish original

0:35:21.080 --> 0:35:25.000
<v Speaker 2>work that expands, to some extent the frontier of human knowledge,

0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:27.360
<v Speaker 2>or at least attempts to write. And it is something

0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:30.879
<v Speaker 2>that is reviewed by a committee of relevant experts. They

0:35:30.920 --> 0:35:33.719
<v Speaker 2>have to eventually sign off on it, and it is

0:35:33.760 --> 0:35:37.360
<v Speaker 2>published somewhere that everyone can read it. Right, This is

0:35:36.960 --> 0:35:39.840
<v Speaker 2>this is the basics of like how that's supposed to work?

0:35:40.080 --> 0:35:41.480
<v Speaker 3>Right? Yeah, now let's see it.

0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Because Patriot Bible University isn't a real school, no one

0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:48.840
<v Speaker 2>could actually find a copy of his dissertation for a

0:35:48.960 --> 0:35:49.560
<v Speaker 2>long time.

0:35:49.960 --> 0:35:51.880
<v Speaker 3>Eventially double wide.

0:35:51.960 --> 0:35:55.080
<v Speaker 2>Actually it was somewhere in that double wide And eventually

0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:57.480
<v Speaker 2>there's now a copy. It's got posted on like WikiLeaks.

0:35:57.480 --> 0:36:02.080
<v Speaker 2>Eventually it's an agree to which the internet was out

0:36:02.120 --> 0:36:04.560
<v Speaker 2>for this guy, loaded for bore.

0:36:04.719 --> 0:36:09.520
<v Speaker 3>Wiki leaks came. Oh, it's so funny.

0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:13.640
<v Speaker 2>But eventually, like an actual scientist reviews this thing and

0:36:13.800 --> 0:36:16.319
<v Speaker 2>points out a number of things that make this not

0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:20.440
<v Speaker 2>a real dissertation or thesis a when a real thesis

0:36:20.520 --> 0:36:22.680
<v Speaker 2>is reviewed by a committee of three to five people

0:36:22.719 --> 0:36:26.760
<v Speaker 2>with relevant expertise. Kent was only reviewed by doctor Wayne Knight,

0:36:26.800 --> 0:36:32.719
<v Speaker 2>who runs Patriot Bible University, and sounds like a Batman character, like, yeah,

0:36:32.760 --> 0:36:34.760
<v Speaker 2>that's a guy from the Batman cartoon.

0:36:35.000 --> 0:36:38.200
<v Speaker 3>Don't tell me that man sence academic. He sounds like

0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:40.280
<v Speaker 3>a guest on the fourth hour of Info Wars.

0:36:41.719 --> 0:36:46.400
<v Speaker 2>There's actually there's there's a substantially higher than zero chance

0:36:46.440 --> 0:36:48.800
<v Speaker 2>that doctor Wayne Knight has been on it, but Wars

0:36:49.880 --> 0:36:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I didn't think to look into that. Honestly, now that

0:36:52.560 --> 0:36:57.560
<v Speaker 2>I think about it, that's almost certain. Yeah, So, since

0:36:57.680 --> 0:37:00.319
<v Speaker 2>Kent is going to make his career badly defending creationism,

0:37:00.400 --> 0:37:02.200
<v Speaker 2>it behooves us to look at the kind of claims

0:37:02.200 --> 0:37:04.719
<v Speaker 2>he made in what is ostensibly the springboard of his

0:37:04.800 --> 0:37:08.640
<v Speaker 2>academic career. One academic who reviewed his thesis noted, even

0:37:08.680 --> 0:37:12.400
<v Speaker 2>the undergraduate honors thesis at my institution require the signatures

0:37:12.400 --> 0:37:16.080
<v Speaker 2>of two faculty members. This fellow goes on to note

0:37:16.120 --> 0:37:20.120
<v Speaker 2>that misspellings are rampant in cite several examples, including Canaan,

0:37:20.160 --> 0:37:22.720
<v Speaker 2>which a Bible doctor really ought to be able to spell,

0:37:23.040 --> 0:37:27.799
<v Speaker 2>and Shinto he meant shinto. Other criticisms include the fact

0:37:27.840 --> 0:37:30.719
<v Speaker 2>that the thesis does not have a title. It has

0:37:30.880 --> 0:37:34.239
<v Speaker 2>one illustration, which was a is a diagram of the

0:37:34.280 --> 0:37:38.560
<v Speaker 2>electromagnetic spectrum, literally cut out of an actual science textbook

0:37:38.680 --> 0:37:42.400
<v Speaker 2>and taped badly inside the thesis. The reviewer notes it

0:37:42.480 --> 0:37:49.840
<v Speaker 2>does not fit the page, and so what did he

0:37:50.080 --> 0:37:56.320
<v Speaker 2>prove that evolution is a religion and creationism is great? Well, actually,

0:37:56.400 --> 0:37:59.440
<v Speaker 2>we'll talk a little bit about his academic assault on

0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:04.000
<v Speaker 2>the theory of molly and maybe convince you to give

0:38:04.080 --> 0:38:07.640
<v Speaker 2>up your life of sin for the cleansing peace of

0:38:08.480 --> 0:38:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Bible believing Christianity.

0:38:10.200 --> 0:38:12.880
<v Speaker 3>But first I'm diving right into that baptismal font we

0:38:12.960 --> 0:38:13.880
<v Speaker 3>come back from this break.

0:38:14.160 --> 0:38:17.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, my only Bible and my only baptism is in

0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:21.160
<v Speaker 2>the cool running rivers of commerce that supports this podcast.

0:38:25.960 --> 0:38:29.759
<v Speaker 2>All right, we're back. Kent is going to build, you know,

0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:33.560
<v Speaker 2>his career attacking evolutions. Let's look at how he attacks it.

0:38:33.600 --> 0:38:37.400
<v Speaker 2>In this thesis quote, Hovid begins with a non standard

0:38:37.440 --> 0:38:40.560
<v Speaker 2>definition of evolution that with time, things left to themselves

0:38:40.560 --> 0:38:44.080
<v Speaker 2>can improve, and a ramble about thermodynamics. For the first time,

0:38:44.080 --> 0:38:46.680
<v Speaker 2>evolution is described as a religion. Hang on to your hats.

0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:49.600
<v Speaker 2>He then proceeds to a long pair of inaccurate definitions

0:38:49.640 --> 0:38:52.960
<v Speaker 2>of microevolution and macro evolution. He finishes this section with

0:38:53.000 --> 0:38:55.600
<v Speaker 2>a second misstatement about evolution by pinning the idea of

0:38:55.640 --> 0:39:01.040
<v Speaker 2>evolution equals progress on the evolutionists. Now there's a lot.

0:39:00.920 --> 0:39:01.520
<v Speaker 3>That's wrong there.

0:39:01.560 --> 0:39:04.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, for one thing, evolution is not things improving

0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:07.400
<v Speaker 2>over the time when left to themselves. It's again like

0:39:07.960 --> 0:39:11.120
<v Speaker 2>random changes, some of which are going to prove adaptive,

0:39:11.200 --> 0:39:13.880
<v Speaker 2>some of which won't. And that leads to like change

0:39:13.960 --> 0:39:16.879
<v Speaker 2>in differentiation in species over long periods of time. Right,

0:39:17.040 --> 0:39:20.480
<v Speaker 2>it's not inherently improving. Things don't always get better. Species

0:39:20.480 --> 0:39:23.919
<v Speaker 2>don't always get better because of this like that. That's

0:39:23.960 --> 0:39:29.080
<v Speaker 2>not what anyone's arguing for when they're talking about No,

0:39:29.239 --> 0:39:32.239
<v Speaker 2>of course not now. Despite what guys like Hoven say,

0:39:32.280 --> 0:39:34.920
<v Speaker 2>the theory of evolution is simple and hard to argue

0:39:34.960 --> 0:39:38.239
<v Speaker 2>with because it's such a reasonable thing. Hovend has to

0:39:38.239 --> 0:39:40.640
<v Speaker 2>come Like the Catholic Church hasn't had an issue with

0:39:40.680 --> 0:39:42.720
<v Speaker 2>it and longer than any of us has been alive.

0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:47.040
<v Speaker 3>Right, and it doesn't preclude the existence of a creator God.

0:39:47.120 --> 0:39:50.200
<v Speaker 3>You could just say, no, God invented evolution. Done.

0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:54.880
<v Speaker 2>There's plenty of perfectly fine, like fucking YouTube arguments you

0:39:54.920 --> 0:39:58.040
<v Speaker 2>can make for evolution being integrated with a belief in God.

0:39:58.880 --> 0:40:01.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't care how convinced saying you as an individual

0:40:01.120 --> 0:40:03.360
<v Speaker 2>find them. They're all more convincing than what Kint is saying.

0:40:03.520 --> 0:40:08.280
<v Speaker 3>Right, you can still believe in your God without being silly.

0:40:08.640 --> 0:40:11.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the pope does, and he believes in a lot

0:40:11.280 --> 0:40:12.000
<v Speaker 2>of silly shit.

0:40:12.440 --> 0:40:14.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but we have a woke pope now, we do,

0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:19.960
<v Speaker 3>we do hu woke huge problem, a real issue.

0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:22.839
<v Speaker 2>So Hovend has to come up because evolution is such

0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:25.840
<v Speaker 2>an inherently reasonable concept. Hoven has to come up with

0:40:25.880 --> 0:40:28.800
<v Speaker 2>his own straw man definitions of evolution to argue against,

0:40:28.800 --> 0:40:31.320
<v Speaker 2>and they're always a little bit different. Later in his career,

0:40:31.320 --> 0:40:33.520
<v Speaker 2>he's going to offer a two hundred and fifty thousand

0:40:33.560 --> 0:40:37.120
<v Speaker 2>dollars prize to anyone who can promise empirically his word

0:40:37.239 --> 0:40:40.080
<v Speaker 2>that evolution is real. And here's how he defines it

0:40:40.120 --> 0:40:43.000
<v Speaker 2>for the purpose of this argument. When I use the

0:40:43.000 --> 0:40:46.200
<v Speaker 2>word evolution, I am not referring to the minor variations

0:40:46.239 --> 0:40:48.439
<v Speaker 2>found in all of various all of the various life

0:40:48.480 --> 0:40:52.080
<v Speaker 2>forms microevolution. I am referring to the general theory of evolution,

0:40:52.239 --> 0:40:55.480
<v Speaker 2>which believes that these five major events took place without God.

0:40:55.800 --> 0:40:59.120
<v Speaker 2>Number one, time, space and matter came into existence by themselves.

0:40:59.360 --> 0:41:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Number two and it's and stars formed from space dust.

0:41:02.200 --> 0:41:05.640
<v Speaker 2>Number three, Matter created life by itself. Number four, early

0:41:05.680 --> 0:41:09.120
<v Speaker 2>life forms learned to reproduce themselves. Number five major changes

0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:13.640
<v Speaker 2>between these diverse life forms And like, that's not evolution, man,

0:41:13.880 --> 0:41:17.960
<v Speaker 2>you're wrapping a bunch of different things into like all together.

0:41:18.320 --> 0:41:21.440
<v Speaker 2>Like the theory. Darwin's theory of evolution did not involve

0:41:21.520 --> 0:41:22.200
<v Speaker 2>the Big Bang.

0:41:22.640 --> 0:41:25.560
<v Speaker 3>No, that's a way later. It's way late. He was just.

0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:29.399
<v Speaker 2>Looking at some fucking, uh fuckingches, yeah, finches and shit,

0:41:29.440 --> 0:41:32.759
<v Speaker 2>and going like, oh, it looks like species differentiate over time.

0:41:33.160 --> 0:41:35.080
<v Speaker 3>He tasted a bunch of different birds.

0:41:35.480 --> 0:41:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he ate every animal that he could and worked

0:41:39.280 --> 0:41:42.879
<v Speaker 2>out a basic theory. So far, what we've got here

0:41:43.080 --> 0:41:45.799
<v Speaker 2>is with Kent is a local pastor and teacher who's

0:41:45.800 --> 0:41:48.440
<v Speaker 2>built a nice business for himself lecturing at churches and

0:41:48.480 --> 0:41:51.520
<v Speaker 2>Bible schools about creationism. Now that's not a good thing,

0:41:51.840 --> 0:41:54.120
<v Speaker 2>but on its own, that's not noteworthy enough to make

0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:57.040
<v Speaker 2>him a subject of this episode. Right, there is something

0:41:57.040 --> 0:41:59.200
<v Speaker 2>that makes Kent special, which is that he is one of,

0:41:59.239 --> 0:42:01.720
<v Speaker 2>if not maybe the first of these kinds of guys

0:42:02.080 --> 0:42:04.200
<v Speaker 2>to realize that the internet is about to be a

0:42:04.280 --> 0:42:06.560
<v Speaker 2>huge deal and how to use the Internet in order

0:42:06.600 --> 0:42:08.760
<v Speaker 2>to make a shitload of money for himself and build

0:42:08.760 --> 0:42:09.320
<v Speaker 2>a following.

0:42:09.480 --> 0:42:10.400
<v Speaker 3>Right he is.

0:42:11.080 --> 0:42:12.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if he's the first of this kind

0:42:12.960 --> 0:42:14.520
<v Speaker 2>of guy, but he's the first I'm aware of that

0:42:14.560 --> 0:42:18.040
<v Speaker 2>really starts this with a website called doctor Dino. He

0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:21.760
<v Speaker 2>makes me the mid nineties, Yeah, and he starts selling

0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:25.640
<v Speaker 2>and collecting and whatnot a whole archive of creationist media

0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:27.040
<v Speaker 2>all over the United States.

0:42:27.160 --> 0:42:30.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh, is that dinos we're breathing fire? It sure is, Molly,

0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:32.799
<v Speaker 3>wait a second for that one. I don't care.

0:42:32.880 --> 0:42:36.799
<v Speaker 2>His main business is himself. But he basically sees, if

0:42:36.800 --> 0:42:39.360
<v Speaker 2>I film these presentations I've been giving it churches and

0:42:39.520 --> 0:42:42.560
<v Speaker 2>edit them into videos and sell those videos or let

0:42:42.600 --> 0:42:46.160
<v Speaker 2>people you know, eventually stream them online, that will expand

0:42:46.200 --> 0:42:48.160
<v Speaker 2>my audience. And there's ways to get money out of

0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:50.759
<v Speaker 2>those people. Right, I'm gonna pinish a clip from one

0:42:50.800 --> 0:42:53.359
<v Speaker 2>of his Yeah, he pivots to video. He does it first. Right,

0:42:53.960 --> 0:42:56.040
<v Speaker 2>here's one of his doctor Dino videos.

0:42:56.400 --> 0:43:01.080
<v Speaker 4>Now, this one is called a parasofis had a weird

0:43:01.120 --> 0:43:03.239
<v Speaker 4>bump on the back of his head. Some people think

0:43:03.239 --> 0:43:06.959
<v Speaker 4>the parasol office was able to breathe fire. Who thinks

0:43:07.000 --> 0:43:09.520
<v Speaker 4>that because that bump on his head was hollow and

0:43:09.560 --> 0:43:14.200
<v Speaker 4>it's connected to his sinuses. I don't know about that,

0:43:14.280 --> 0:43:15.360
<v Speaker 4>but interesting theory.

0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:15.799
<v Speaker 3>It is not.

0:43:16.160 --> 0:43:20.520
<v Speaker 4>I like the parasol office. But there's one thing about

0:43:20.600 --> 0:43:24.000
<v Speaker 4>him I do not like so and I'm going to

0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:26.200
<v Speaker 4>tell you about that in just a minute.

0:43:26.200 --> 0:43:29.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, The whole speech is like that, he like introduced

0:43:29.680 --> 0:43:32.600
<v Speaker 2>a dinosaur, usually get things wrong about it, and then

0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:34.799
<v Speaker 2>be like, I like this guy except for one thing

0:43:34.840 --> 0:43:37.480
<v Speaker 2>about him, and then he'll move on to the next dinosaur.

0:43:37.560 --> 0:43:40.240
<v Speaker 3>He didn't accept the Jesus as his Lord and savior.

0:43:40.360 --> 0:43:42.239
<v Speaker 2>That is kind of where we're going here. But I

0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:44.080
<v Speaker 2>do want to let you know, folks, there are not

0:43:44.160 --> 0:43:46.360
<v Speaker 2>fire breathing No, no one thinks there were dinosaurs that

0:43:46.480 --> 0:43:49.120
<v Speaker 2>breathed fire. That's not a thing that science believes. That's

0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:53.360
<v Speaker 2>not a thing anyone has ever suggested, except for mediac phoven.

0:43:53.960 --> 0:43:55.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:43:55.560 --> 0:43:58.120
<v Speaker 2>I think this is part of like you get some

0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:00.719
<v Speaker 2>of these weird creationist guys trying to where like both

0:44:00.800 --> 0:44:03.719
<v Speaker 2>dinosaurs and myths about dragons together. Maybe that's where that

0:44:03.760 --> 0:44:07.200
<v Speaker 2>comes out of. But anyway, here's how that whole speech

0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:09.880
<v Speaker 2>thing culminates, right when he finally explains what he doesn't

0:44:09.960 --> 0:44:11.640
<v Speaker 2>the one thing he doesn't like about all of these

0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:13.760
<v Speaker 2>great dinosaurs.

0:44:13.200 --> 0:44:16.080
<v Speaker 4>The one thing about all the dinosaurs I do not like.

0:44:17.480 --> 0:44:20.680
<v Speaker 4>I don't like the way every time you pick up

0:44:20.680 --> 0:44:23.920
<v Speaker 4>a book about dinosaurs, you open up to the first

0:44:23.960 --> 0:44:28.720
<v Speaker 4>page and guess what it says, tillions of years ago

0:44:29.920 --> 0:44:31.520
<v Speaker 4>dinosaurs lived on the earth.

0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:34.240
<v Speaker 3>Man, that is not true.

0:44:35.400 --> 0:44:36.520
<v Speaker 4>What you have to do, you have to get a

0:44:36.560 --> 0:44:38.800
<v Speaker 4>little buzzer in your brain and whenever somebody tells you

0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:40.080
<v Speaker 4>something that's not true, he say.

0:44:40.000 --> 0:44:44.000
<v Speaker 3>Man, not true, I'm gonna have to go. Man, I

0:44:44.160 --> 0:44:47.200
<v Speaker 3>can't hear, because that's not fair to the dinosaur. I

0:44:47.239 --> 0:44:49.040
<v Speaker 3>like this dinosaur, except I don't like this one thing

0:44:49.080 --> 0:44:49.600
<v Speaker 3>about him.

0:44:49.640 --> 0:44:52.560
<v Speaker 2>The dinosaurs never said, They never concept of age, as

0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:55.080
<v Speaker 2>far as we're aware, didn't write that book.

0:44:55.239 --> 0:44:58.400
<v Speaker 1>Just wondering. Do you think that the costume department on

0:44:58.480 --> 0:45:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Friends based Ross Guelers like work clothes off of Kent?

0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:05.920
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, they're both dinosaur scientists.

0:45:05.920 --> 0:45:10.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, and I also I refuse to consume anything either

0:45:10.160 --> 0:45:12.680
<v Speaker 2>of them make outside of their wheelhouse. Right, Ross is

0:45:12.719 --> 0:45:16.840
<v Speaker 2>not allowed to be Ross from Friends. I'm very angry.

0:45:16.960 --> 0:45:21.399
<v Speaker 2>I watched I watched some insane television show. I think

0:45:21.400 --> 0:45:25.000
<v Speaker 2>it was about like climate change and ship it's on

0:45:25.080 --> 0:45:27.000
<v Speaker 2>I think it might have been Netflix. And Ross from

0:45:27.000 --> 0:45:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Friends is in a couple episodes because it like veers from.

0:45:30.360 --> 0:45:32.520
<v Speaker 3>I've never seen him in anything but Friends. Does he

0:45:32.600 --> 0:45:33.080
<v Speaker 3>still work?

0:45:33.400 --> 0:45:33.759
<v Speaker 1>He was?

0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:34.200
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

0:45:34.239 --> 0:45:37.320
<v Speaker 1>Apparently, yes he was, he was. He was. He played

0:45:37.440 --> 0:45:40.160
<v Speaker 1>Robert Kardashian in the o J series.

0:45:41.160 --> 0:45:43.160
<v Speaker 2>There's the It's this, It's this show that sounds like

0:45:43.200 --> 0:45:46.560
<v Speaker 2>a fever dream. It starts with like like climate conferences

0:45:46.640 --> 0:45:49.440
<v Speaker 2>about like the impending disaster, and then like you know,

0:45:50.000 --> 0:45:52.960
<v Speaker 2>the disaster really gets going in earnest and suddenly everything

0:45:53.000 --> 0:45:55.360
<v Speaker 2>pivots to being I thought it was going to go

0:45:55.440 --> 0:45:58.400
<v Speaker 2>like be hardcore like Zionist, but actually the point it

0:45:58.400 --> 0:46:00.800
<v Speaker 2>seems to be making is that the real Jewish homeland

0:46:00.840 --> 0:46:03.560
<v Speaker 2>is Miami, and there's like a synagogue they're trying to

0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:06.520
<v Speaker 2>save in southern Florida from flooding, and Ross from Friends

0:46:06.520 --> 0:46:09.759
<v Speaker 2>as to bribe congressman to do it.

0:46:08.440 --> 0:46:09.800
<v Speaker 3>It gets arrested.

0:46:10.000 --> 0:46:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Is it called Little Death?

0:46:11.880 --> 0:46:14.799
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, It's one of the weirdest shows I've

0:46:14.800 --> 0:46:15.320
<v Speaker 2>ever seen.

0:46:15.440 --> 0:46:18.080
<v Speaker 3>I don't think that's real.

0:46:19.239 --> 0:46:21.640
<v Speaker 2>It felt like a fever dream. And then the entire

0:46:21.680 --> 0:46:23.200
<v Speaker 2>show changes after the Ross.

0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:25.200
<v Speaker 1>From Friends port called Little Death.

0:46:25.719 --> 0:46:29.560
<v Speaker 2>It is definitely not called Little Death. Then it's called Extrapolations.

0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:32.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh then what else Sissy ben in it's not on

0:46:32.440 --> 0:46:33.560
<v Speaker 1>his IMDb.

0:46:34.760 --> 0:46:37.800
<v Speaker 3>I think he might have funded the fucker. It's weird.

0:46:37.840 --> 0:46:38.600
<v Speaker 3>He's weird in it.

0:46:38.760 --> 0:46:41.160
<v Speaker 1>A few years back it, Yeah, I got it.

0:46:41.160 --> 0:46:43.759
<v Speaker 3>It is an off putting show. I found it off.

0:46:43.840 --> 0:46:45.879
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, John Snow is in it.

0:46:46.360 --> 0:46:48.799
<v Speaker 2>John Snow is in fact in it. Yeah, a lot

0:46:48.840 --> 0:46:51.839
<v Speaker 2>of guys are in it. Edward Norton's a big part

0:46:51.840 --> 0:46:52.080
<v Speaker 2>in it.

0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Yes, okay, I'll do this all my own time. Sorry.

0:46:57.080 --> 0:46:58.320
<v Speaker 3>I was like, what a cast.

0:46:59.520 --> 0:47:03.520
<v Speaker 1>It's a baffling show, Like, are you a guy who

0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:06.040
<v Speaker 1>will always be known as playing one guy on a

0:47:06.080 --> 0:47:08.600
<v Speaker 1>TV show? We'll cast you in this.

0:47:08.719 --> 0:47:12.279
<v Speaker 2>We'll cast you. Edward Norton is more than that, not

0:47:12.440 --> 0:47:13.040
<v Speaker 2>much more.

0:47:13.719 --> 0:47:14.480
<v Speaker 1>He's Fight Club.

0:47:15.120 --> 0:47:18.600
<v Speaker 2>He's in the only movie about the shitty town in Oklahoma.

0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:20.360
<v Speaker 2>I grew up in Leaves of Grass.

0:47:21.200 --> 0:47:23.279
<v Speaker 3>Good movie. It's also got one of the guys from

0:47:23.320 --> 0:47:24.439
<v Speaker 3>Deadwood in it. Check it out.

0:47:24.880 --> 0:47:29.520
<v Speaker 2>He plays himself and his twin brother. Anyway, So Kent,

0:47:30.040 --> 0:47:32.520
<v Speaker 2>oh dinosaur, Yeah, we're talking about dinosaur.

0:47:32.680 --> 0:47:34.600
<v Speaker 1>We got ross from Brinded.

0:47:35.440 --> 0:47:37.799
<v Speaker 2>We got ross from Friended. You can't stop when you

0:47:37.840 --> 0:47:40.040
<v Speaker 2>get when you get a little dose of vitamin R.

0:47:41.480 --> 0:47:45.640
<v Speaker 2>So anyway, As a public speaker, Kent has a whole

0:47:45.640 --> 0:47:47.680
<v Speaker 2>host of lions. He's got locked and loaded to get

0:47:47.680 --> 0:47:50.239
<v Speaker 2>an audience's attention, and one of his favorite lines is

0:47:50.520 --> 0:47:52.799
<v Speaker 2>one drop of water will cover the whole world if

0:47:52.840 --> 0:47:56.000
<v Speaker 2>you spread it real thin. Kent states this as if

0:47:56.040 --> 0:47:57.280
<v Speaker 2>it's a scientific fact.

0:47:57.719 --> 0:47:58.280
<v Speaker 3>Don't worry.

0:47:59.040 --> 0:48:01.359
<v Speaker 2>I found a again, because there's a lot of guys

0:48:01.360 --> 0:48:03.680
<v Speaker 2>who are obsessed with Kent. I found a crazy person

0:48:03.680 --> 0:48:05.880
<v Speaker 2>who seems to know math, who did a breakdown and

0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:09.240
<v Speaker 2>calculates that this Kent is off by roughly a factor

0:48:09.239 --> 0:48:14.040
<v Speaker 2>of one trillion here, which sounds right. I can't check

0:48:14.120 --> 0:48:14.600
<v Speaker 2>that math.

0:48:14.840 --> 0:48:16.840
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how to spread atoms. I don't know

0:48:16.880 --> 0:48:17.680
<v Speaker 3>how big those are.

0:48:18.440 --> 0:48:19.960
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, it does seem like that would have to

0:48:19.960 --> 0:48:22.840
<v Speaker 2>be off by about a trillion or so. Honestly, that

0:48:22.920 --> 0:48:23.319
<v Speaker 2>might be low.

0:48:23.440 --> 0:48:25.920
<v Speaker 3>Guess if you're talking if you're talking about like baptismal water,

0:48:26.040 --> 0:48:27.320
<v Speaker 3>I think it's more of a metaphor.

0:48:27.560 --> 0:48:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that's But he also there's nothing that's

0:48:30.160 --> 0:48:32.280
<v Speaker 2>a metaphor for Kent. You can't have metaphors.

0:48:32.280 --> 0:48:32.919
<v Speaker 3>In Kent's world.

0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:36.680
<v Speaker 2>Everything has to be literally true, otherwise his entire conception

0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:40.440
<v Speaker 2>of reality collapses. Kent also claims that birds are not

0:48:40.480 --> 0:48:44.600
<v Speaker 2>descended from dinosaurs. Dinosaurs are also big, cold blooded lizards

0:48:45.040 --> 0:48:47.319
<v Speaker 2>that live in Eden, which we know they're not. The

0:48:47.400 --> 0:48:49.680
<v Speaker 2>reality is that dinosaurs really have very little to do

0:48:49.760 --> 0:48:52.800
<v Speaker 2>with modern reptiles. But Kent has to deny the sweep

0:48:52.800 --> 0:48:56.080
<v Speaker 2>of time necessary to allow birds to come about. So

0:48:56.120 --> 0:48:58.759
<v Speaker 2>he claims, for example, that the Triceratops is just a

0:48:58.840 --> 0:49:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Jackson's chameleon that got extra big because there was more

0:49:01.960 --> 0:49:05.120
<v Speaker 2>oxygen back then. Like if you were to hook at

0:49:05.480 --> 0:49:08.319
<v Speaker 2>Jackson's chameleon up to an O two tag, you could

0:49:08.400 --> 0:49:09.840
<v Speaker 2>get to be huge.

0:49:10.880 --> 0:49:14.560
<v Speaker 3>Why are we doing that? There is some some scientific

0:49:14.600 --> 0:49:16.960
<v Speaker 3>credence to the idea that, like the amount of oxygen

0:49:16.920 --> 0:49:20.640
<v Speaker 3>in the atmosphere. Sex used to be bigger because they

0:49:20.680 --> 0:49:22.640
<v Speaker 3>break through pores in their skins, so they could be

0:49:22.760 --> 0:49:24.520
<v Speaker 3>larger because of the different amount of But they're the

0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:26.960
<v Speaker 3>same insects, you know, And it's like.

0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:29.799
<v Speaker 5>You can't just if you just like you can't just

0:49:29.800 --> 0:49:34.759
<v Speaker 5>make a common big oxygen I'm gonna I'm gonna put

0:49:35.000 --> 0:49:37.839
<v Speaker 5>a pet chameleon inside of a hyperbaric chamber and I'm

0:49:37.880 --> 0:49:38.399
<v Speaker 5>gonna grow.

0:49:39.920 --> 0:49:41.040
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to one.

0:49:41.320 --> 0:49:43.520
<v Speaker 2>Like. Look, if it worked that way, I would be

0:49:43.600 --> 0:49:46.200
<v Speaker 2>psyched that the creationists were right, because then we'd have

0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:49.399
<v Speaker 2>Triceratopsis to ride and that would be worth it. I'll

0:49:49.440 --> 0:49:51.920
<v Speaker 2>lead a lot of crow to write a tri Serratos.

0:49:51.560 --> 0:49:53.720
<v Speaker 3>Only inside your special oxygen chamber.

0:49:53.960 --> 0:49:56.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you would have probably have to keep the chamber.

0:49:56.400 --> 0:49:58.920
<v Speaker 2>We just make the world a hyperbaric chamber. Perfect.

0:49:58.960 --> 0:50:03.840
<v Speaker 1>This guy is just Christian science Alex Jones. It's very weird. Yeah, yeah,

0:50:04.000 --> 0:50:07.480
<v Speaker 1>he's a little worse than does he start selling products.

0:50:07.280 --> 0:50:10.560
<v Speaker 2>He's already selling products he's got.

0:50:10.960 --> 0:50:11.839
<v Speaker 3>I'm interested in the.

0:50:11.800 --> 0:50:16.840
<v Speaker 2>Merch videos and t shirts and toys, and obviously, like

0:50:16.880 --> 0:50:19.800
<v Speaker 2>a lot of creationists, one of the things that helps

0:50:20.040 --> 0:50:22.759
<v Speaker 2>stitch Kent's beliefs together is the existence of cryptids.

0:50:22.840 --> 0:50:23.000
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:50:23.719 --> 0:50:27.200
<v Speaker 2>If the Lockness Monster exists, right, it means that dinosaurs

0:50:27.280 --> 0:50:28.640
<v Speaker 2>didn't die out all that long.

0:50:28.440 --> 0:50:29.480
<v Speaker 3>Ago, exactly right.

0:50:29.600 --> 0:50:32.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, Now, I know what a lot of you

0:50:32.840 --> 0:50:36.320
<v Speaker 2>are asking at this point. Kent is clearly a ridiculous asshole.

0:50:36.360 --> 0:50:39.759
<v Speaker 2>But is he really noteworthy? And I assure you he is.

0:50:39.800 --> 0:50:42.160
<v Speaker 2>We're going to talk about his his real evil shit

0:50:42.320 --> 0:50:44.520
<v Speaker 2>in part two, but I want to start by laying

0:50:44.520 --> 0:50:47.320
<v Speaker 2>out how much fucking money he makes doing this grift.

0:50:47.719 --> 0:50:49.799
<v Speaker 2>In two thousand and three alone, Kent earned more than

0:50:49.840 --> 0:50:53.320
<v Speaker 2>one point six million dollars in doctor Dino merchandise sales.

0:50:53.719 --> 0:50:56.480
<v Speaker 2>From nineteen ninety five to nineteen ninety seven, his income

0:50:56.520 --> 0:50:59.080
<v Speaker 2>tax bill alone was more than half a million dollars.

0:50:59.280 --> 0:51:02.120
<v Speaker 2>And we know that because Kent was a tax protester

0:51:02.320 --> 0:51:05.280
<v Speaker 2>and refused to pay his taxes for about thirty years.

0:51:05.560 --> 0:51:09.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, of course, of course he's a tax protester. I

0:51:09.920 --> 0:51:13.480
<v Speaker 3>feel like, if you're truly only committed to God, is

0:51:13.520 --> 0:51:15.800
<v Speaker 3>that like its own kind of sovereign citizen.

0:51:16.480 --> 0:51:18.719
<v Speaker 2>He is a sovereign citizen, Molly, That's where this is headed.

0:51:19.239 --> 0:51:22.120
<v Speaker 2>But yes, also he's his own kind of Christian sovereign

0:51:22.120 --> 0:51:26.160
<v Speaker 2>citizen too. He does both. So in two thousand and one,

0:51:26.440 --> 0:51:30.200
<v Speaker 2>he creates his first Bible based theme park, dinosauran venture

0:51:30.320 --> 0:51:34.879
<v Speaker 2>land tagline where dinosaurs and the Bible meet. I've heard

0:51:34.880 --> 0:51:38.160
<v Speaker 2>these described as being built in his backyard in Pensacola,

0:51:38.320 --> 0:51:40.600
<v Speaker 2>but his backyard is like seven acres, so it's not

0:51:40.680 --> 0:51:44.240
<v Speaker 2>like tiny. The park has an indoor science center filled

0:51:44.280 --> 0:51:47.680
<v Speaker 2>with illustrated versions of the arguments Kent makes in his lectures.

0:51:47.880 --> 0:51:50.120
<v Speaker 2>There's also an outdoor space with what can crudely be

0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:53.759
<v Speaker 2>described as rides. One I've heard of is the jump Asaurus,

0:51:53.800 --> 0:51:56.800
<v Speaker 2>which is just a trampoline next to a basketball hoop.

0:51:57.280 --> 0:51:59.799
<v Speaker 2>Kids have a minute to make all the baskets they can,

0:52:00.160 --> 0:52:02.880
<v Speaker 2>which will teach them that they have to be coordinated

0:52:02.960 --> 0:52:05.160
<v Speaker 2>in order to spread God's message.

0:52:07.160 --> 0:52:10.040
<v Speaker 3>No that's not said skid, that's nonsense.

0:52:10.360 --> 0:52:13.080
<v Speaker 2>That's not all right. That's a trampoline next to a

0:52:13.120 --> 0:52:14.000
<v Speaker 2>basketball court.

0:52:14.080 --> 0:52:14.360
<v Speaker 5>This is.

0:52:16.160 --> 0:52:18.000
<v Speaker 3>No I mean, look, I'm all for.

0:52:18.280 --> 0:52:22.239
<v Speaker 2>Children risking their lives in dangerous games, but also, you know,

0:52:22.280 --> 0:52:25.840
<v Speaker 2>they should be more fun than that. So for a

0:52:25.920 --> 0:52:29.120
<v Speaker 2>while in the early aughts, some skeptic publications did a

0:52:29.160 --> 0:52:32.640
<v Speaker 2>decent business making fun of Dinosaur Action Land. But what

0:52:32.719 --> 0:52:36.200
<v Speaker 2>actually brought Kent down wasn't being wrong about everything, because

0:52:36.200 --> 0:52:39.880
<v Speaker 2>that never hurts people's career. It was tax fraud. To

0:52:39.960 --> 0:52:42.680
<v Speaker 2>describe what happened, and again, folks, this is a constant

0:52:42.760 --> 0:52:46.359
<v Speaker 2>lesson in crime. Do whatever unethical shit you can get

0:52:46.360 --> 0:52:49.879
<v Speaker 2>away with most evil things in the United States as

0:52:49.960 --> 0:52:53.560
<v Speaker 2>long as you pay your taxes like just and the

0:52:53.600 --> 0:52:55.920
<v Speaker 2>irs is not picky. You know, they don't care if

0:52:55.920 --> 0:52:58.759
<v Speaker 2>you're a drug dealer. Just pay your taxes and you

0:52:58.800 --> 0:53:01.920
<v Speaker 2>will avoid the easiest way to destroy your life as

0:53:01.960 --> 0:53:03.640
<v Speaker 2>a person who is breaking the law.

0:53:03.600 --> 0:53:04.839
<v Speaker 3>Because they'll get you in the end.

0:53:04.880 --> 0:53:07.680
<v Speaker 2>They always say will, they will. They're actually know what

0:53:07.719 --> 0:53:10.759
<v Speaker 2>they're doing. To describe what happened, next, I want to

0:53:10.760 --> 0:53:13.360
<v Speaker 2>read a quote from a book by Professor Samuel Brunson

0:53:13.440 --> 0:53:17.080
<v Speaker 2>called God and the IRS, which is about the difficulty

0:53:17.120 --> 0:53:19.880
<v Speaker 2>the IRS has dealing with the religious right. It actually

0:53:19.920 --> 0:53:23.240
<v Speaker 2>sounds very interesting. It's like seventy dollars for the kindle

0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:25.480
<v Speaker 2>edition because it's a textbook, so I have not read

0:53:25.480 --> 0:53:27.879
<v Speaker 2>the whole thing, but I found excerpts that yeah, because

0:53:27.880 --> 0:53:30.640
<v Speaker 2>there's just a portion of it that deals specifically with Kent.

0:53:31.520 --> 0:53:32.000
<v Speaker 3>Quote.

0:53:32.480 --> 0:53:35.839
<v Speaker 2>Though creationism was Hoven's professional passion, it was far from

0:53:35.840 --> 0:53:38.640
<v Speaker 2>his only interest. Hovind was also deeply dedicated to not

0:53:38.760 --> 0:53:41.920
<v Speaker 2>paying taxes. Hovind was as dedicated a tax protester as

0:53:41.920 --> 0:53:44.160
<v Speaker 2>in it he did not file a single federal tax

0:53:44.160 --> 0:53:47.200
<v Speaker 2>return between nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety six. The

0:53:47.239 --> 0:53:49.799
<v Speaker 2>IRS noticed and demanded that Hoven provide them with certain

0:53:49.840 --> 0:53:52.920
<v Speaker 2>financial records. He refused. In fact, in his attempts to

0:53:52.960 --> 0:53:55.960
<v Speaker 2>impede the IRS's investigation, Hovind went so far as to

0:53:55.960 --> 0:53:58.759
<v Speaker 2>file a lawsuit against the IRS, demanding that the court

0:53:58.840 --> 0:54:02.040
<v Speaker 2>order the IRS and it's a by court order, demanding

0:54:02.120 --> 0:54:04.880
<v Speaker 2>that the court order the IRS and its agents stopped

0:54:04.920 --> 0:54:07.320
<v Speaker 2>contacting and harassing him, and that it ordered the IRS

0:54:07.320 --> 0:54:11.399
<v Speaker 2>to stay off his property. So, you know, taxes are complicated,

0:54:11.520 --> 0:54:14.279
<v Speaker 2>but the IRS is a simple organization. They just want

0:54:14.280 --> 0:54:16.960
<v Speaker 2>their money, and they've spent enough time as the bugbear

0:54:17.000 --> 0:54:19.360
<v Speaker 2>of the Republican Party that they are leery of having

0:54:19.400 --> 0:54:23.320
<v Speaker 2>public fights with religious conservative tax protesters, so they don't

0:54:23.360 --> 0:54:27.440
<v Speaker 2>go hard after again. He stops paying his taxes in

0:54:27.520 --> 0:54:29.719
<v Speaker 2>eighty nine, and they don't really come for him until

0:54:29.760 --> 0:54:32.839
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and six, you know. And there's back and

0:54:32.880 --> 0:54:35.120
<v Speaker 2>forths going on before then, in like the late nineties

0:54:35.120 --> 0:54:37.799
<v Speaker 2>and early two thousands, but they don't really go for

0:54:37.960 --> 0:54:40.560
<v Speaker 2>Bore until he makes it very clear that there is

0:54:40.640 --> 0:54:42.719
<v Speaker 2>no other way for them to resolve this, right.

0:54:43.400 --> 0:54:45.279
<v Speaker 3>I mean, he he could have just all this time

0:54:45.320 --> 0:54:47.640
<v Speaker 3>but just been doing his taxes, but like doing them

0:54:47.680 --> 0:54:50.080
<v Speaker 3>wrong and paying like ten dollars would have been fine,

0:54:50.120 --> 0:54:52.000
<v Speaker 3>and they wouldn't and they wouldn't have wanted to come

0:54:52.040 --> 0:54:54.000
<v Speaker 3>after a church. But if you go out in public

0:54:54.040 --> 0:54:55.680
<v Speaker 3>and you say I don't have to pay my taxes

0:54:55.719 --> 0:54:56.600
<v Speaker 3>because God said so.

0:54:56.800 --> 0:54:59.719
<v Speaker 2>Right, right, And the big mistake he makes series Kent

0:55:00.120 --> 0:55:03.480
<v Speaker 2>stakes the I r S's hesitation to go immediately nuclear

0:55:03.520 --> 0:55:06.560
<v Speaker 2>on him as an actual victory. And so during this

0:55:06.680 --> 0:55:09.399
<v Speaker 2>kind of awkward period where he's fighting back and forth

0:55:09.440 --> 0:55:11.520
<v Speaker 2>with them, but they're not really coming after him, he

0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:14.720
<v Speaker 2>decides he's like hacked the system, and he starts lecturing

0:55:14.840 --> 0:55:18.040
<v Speaker 2>and selling book and video guides to not paying taxes.

0:55:19.320 --> 0:55:24.040
<v Speaker 3>Oh, they love those times when you do that. That's

0:55:24.120 --> 0:55:27.720
<v Speaker 3>the easy way to make free. There's this whole industry

0:55:27.760 --> 0:55:30.759
<v Speaker 3>of guys who will like sell you their system for like, oh,

0:55:30.800 --> 0:55:33.719
<v Speaker 3>if you just do this one secret loophole. Yeah, it's

0:55:33.760 --> 0:55:35.799
<v Speaker 3>not real, it's not real. I think the.

0:55:35.800 --> 0:55:38.600
<v Speaker 2>Easiest way to make a lot of money doing unethical

0:55:38.680 --> 0:55:41.560
<v Speaker 2>things would be to like become that kind of guy,

0:55:41.719 --> 0:55:45.120
<v Speaker 2>but pay your taxes scrupulously, like run a business on

0:55:45.239 --> 0:55:47.880
<v Speaker 2>how people can avoid taxes.

0:55:47.920 --> 0:55:51.919
<v Speaker 3>But actually it's still funny to sell that shit.

0:55:52.200 --> 0:55:55.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well that's what that's what's

0:55:55.640 --> 0:55:57.399
<v Speaker 2>going to happen to kin. So some of his new

0:55:57.400 --> 0:55:59.880
<v Speaker 2>beliefs come to be based on the arguments of what

0:56:00.160 --> 0:56:01.719
<v Speaker 2>are called sovereign citizens.

0:56:02.400 --> 0:56:03.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:56:03.040 --> 0:56:05.920
<v Speaker 2>I think there's a decent level of like at this point,

0:56:06.000 --> 0:56:09.160
<v Speaker 2>kind of background osmosis information the average person has about

0:56:09.200 --> 0:56:12.719
<v Speaker 2>sovereign citizens. But in brief, sovereign citizens are people who

0:56:12.719 --> 0:56:16.279
<v Speaker 2>believe that the arcana of tax law and constitutional law

0:56:16.480 --> 0:56:18.760
<v Speaker 2>is a magic spell to make the government go away.

0:56:18.880 --> 0:56:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Right if you figure out the right way to cite

0:56:22.440 --> 0:56:25.480
<v Speaker 2>legal precedent, then you can make the federal government not

0:56:26.400 --> 0:56:29.319
<v Speaker 2>in charge of you, you know, which it doesn't really work.

0:56:29.400 --> 0:56:31.879
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes the law can be like magic, but it never

0:56:31.960 --> 0:56:34.719
<v Speaker 2>makes you not a subject of the state because it

0:56:35.400 --> 0:56:38.280
<v Speaker 2>has a lot of guns. Ultimately, I've only ever.

0:56:38.160 --> 0:56:40.040
<v Speaker 3>Seen it in person once, but I was sitting through

0:56:40.040 --> 0:56:43.040
<v Speaker 3>docket call and this woman had some sort of like

0:56:43.160 --> 0:56:45.799
<v Speaker 3>relatively minor traffic ticket that really got blown out of

0:56:45.800 --> 0:56:49.160
<v Speaker 3>proportion because she refused to produce a driver's license. And so,

0:56:49.160 --> 0:56:51.239
<v Speaker 3>you know, she comes up before the judge and she says, well,

0:56:51.480 --> 0:56:54.080
<v Speaker 3>I do not contract with the Department of Motor Vehicles,

0:56:54.400 --> 0:56:55.920
<v Speaker 3>and she just like every time the judge asked her

0:56:55.920 --> 0:56:57.439
<v Speaker 3>a question or tried to get her to see something,

0:56:57.440 --> 0:56:59.480
<v Speaker 3>she just kept saying, I do not contract with the

0:56:59.480 --> 0:57:01.920
<v Speaker 3>Department of Vehicles. And it's like the judges like, it

0:57:01.960 --> 0:57:04.760
<v Speaker 3>doesn't really matter if you do. No one really cares.

0:57:06.600 --> 0:57:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Lady, I don't contract with the fucking us with the

0:57:10.320 --> 0:57:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Department of Homeland Security. But that's not going to stop

0:57:12.680 --> 0:57:14.880
<v Speaker 2>him from coming after me if I do certain things,

0:57:14.960 --> 0:57:17.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, like you don't have to contract with the

0:57:17.760 --> 0:57:20.640
<v Speaker 2>ATF to have to obey the rules They put in place.

0:57:20.840 --> 0:57:23.080
<v Speaker 3>I do not contract with the Internal Revenue Service.

0:57:23.320 --> 0:57:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they don't care. They've got a lot of guns. Ultimately,

0:57:27.720 --> 0:57:28.880
<v Speaker 2>it does come down to that.

0:57:29.320 --> 0:57:32.040
<v Speaker 1>I kind of love that she was like, that's my line.

0:57:33.040 --> 0:57:33.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, gotcha.

0:57:34.440 --> 0:57:36.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean she got that from a guy like Kent, right,

0:57:36.600 --> 0:57:40.520
<v Speaker 2>because absolutely kin gets Obviously I don't know who he

0:57:40.720 --> 0:57:43.280
<v Speaker 2>gets brought into sovereign citizen. It's kind of like a

0:57:43.320 --> 0:57:47.240
<v Speaker 2>decentralized cult ideology. But he starts spreading it too, like

0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:50.440
<v Speaker 2>after he gets into it. Right, And here's a quote

0:57:50.440 --> 0:57:52.240
<v Speaker 2>from one of the videos he puts out during this

0:57:52.240 --> 0:57:53.920
<v Speaker 2>period of time that gives you an idea of how

0:57:53.920 --> 0:57:56.520
<v Speaker 2>these people talk. I do not have or use a

0:57:56.520 --> 0:57:59.520
<v Speaker 2>social Security number. Actually, no real person has a Social

0:57:59.560 --> 0:58:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Security number. Notice on your Social Security card that your

0:58:02.480 --> 0:58:05.600
<v Speaker 2>name is spelled with all capital letters. This designates the

0:58:05.600 --> 0:58:10.200
<v Speaker 2>straw man business trust or corporation, not a person. Right,

0:58:10.320 --> 0:58:12.840
<v Speaker 2>so you can you can sue or imprison the all

0:58:12.920 --> 0:58:16.080
<v Speaker 2>caps straw man that my card is for. But that's

0:58:16.120 --> 0:58:17.560
<v Speaker 2>not really me. So I don't have to go to

0:58:17.600 --> 0:58:22.600
<v Speaker 2>prison for all of these crimes. Again, man, even if

0:58:22.640 --> 0:58:24.680
<v Speaker 2>you were right, which you're not, this is nonsense, Like,

0:58:24.680 --> 0:58:28.080
<v Speaker 2>there's not actually legal president is there. Even if there was,

0:58:28.320 --> 0:58:32.200
<v Speaker 2>they all still have the guns. That's the like, as

0:58:32.240 --> 0:58:34.880
<v Speaker 2>an anarchist, I also don't believe in the legitimacy of

0:58:34.880 --> 0:58:37.280
<v Speaker 2>the state, but I recognize that they have more guns

0:58:37.320 --> 0:58:42.640
<v Speaker 2>than me, you know, like ultimately, yeah, I'm going to

0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:45.280
<v Speaker 2>try not to get them too angry at me because

0:58:45.320 --> 0:58:46.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to get shot. I don't want to

0:58:46.960 --> 0:58:49.200
<v Speaker 2>get a ruby ridge on my ass or something, you know,

0:58:49.440 --> 0:58:50.920
<v Speaker 2>like the all.

0:58:50.800 --> 0:58:54.200
<v Speaker 3>Caps and the all lowercase version of you neither wise bulletproof. Yeah.

0:58:54.360 --> 0:58:56.400
<v Speaker 2>The one where I agree with them is that like, yeah,

0:58:56.440 --> 0:58:58.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean the government is a big mafia, right, and

0:58:58.520 --> 0:59:00.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's very good. But you know, I

0:59:00.760 --> 0:59:03.520
<v Speaker 2>recognize the reality that they don't care. If I can

0:59:03.600 --> 0:59:07.520
<v Speaker 2>quote certain things like there's no magic spell to make

0:59:07.560 --> 0:59:08.280
<v Speaker 2>them go away.

0:59:08.760 --> 0:59:10.880
<v Speaker 3>Pocket constitution, Yeah.

0:59:10.640 --> 0:59:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, your pocket Constitution's not going to save you on

0:59:13.000 --> 0:59:16.760
<v Speaker 2>this stuff. In nineteen ninety eight, Kent filed a document

0:59:16.800 --> 0:59:19.480
<v Speaker 2>with his local Clerk of Court where he claimed to

0:59:19.520 --> 0:59:21.960
<v Speaker 2>be a sovereign citizen, not a citizen of the corporate

0:59:22.000 --> 0:59:24.920
<v Speaker 2>government he believed was legally in control.

0:59:24.920 --> 0:59:28.280
<v Speaker 3>So not real. The notary was like, I mean, I'll

0:59:28.320 --> 0:59:29.080
<v Speaker 3>stamp it.

0:59:29.080 --> 0:59:32.920
<v Speaker 2>But quote this, in Hoven's eyes, severed all ties between

0:59:33.000 --> 0:59:35.640
<v Speaker 2>Kent Hovend and all caps Kent Hoven. In two thousand

0:59:35.640 --> 0:59:38.560
<v Speaker 2>and one, nevertheless, he signed Kent Ehovend above a Kin

0:59:38.680 --> 0:59:41.760
<v Speaker 2>Ehoven cap all caps signature light. So you're not even

0:59:41.840 --> 0:59:43.960
<v Speaker 2>consistent about your nonsense.

0:59:43.520 --> 0:59:44.959
<v Speaker 3>Kent gotta file a new form.

0:59:45.400 --> 0:59:48.080
<v Speaker 2>Kent declared he and his wife immune to all previously

0:59:48.120 --> 0:59:50.640
<v Speaker 2>incurred debts, including the money they owed to the irs,

0:59:50.720 --> 0:59:53.560
<v Speaker 2>by revoking their power of attorney with the Clerk of Courts.

0:59:53.920 --> 0:59:56.600
<v Speaker 2>They argued that Social Security was a Ponzi scheme which

0:59:56.600 --> 0:59:58.560
<v Speaker 2>covered up the factor of the US government, or in

0:59:58.600 --> 1:00:01.200
<v Speaker 2>their eyes, the government that ran corporation or whatever that

1:00:01.280 --> 1:00:04.360
<v Speaker 2>ran the US government was bankrupt. They referred to themselves

1:00:04.440 --> 1:00:08.000
<v Speaker 2>as natural citizens of America, which is sovereign citizen language

1:00:08.040 --> 1:00:11.080
<v Speaker 2>that basically means I am a citizen of the literal land,

1:00:11.240 --> 1:00:15.480
<v Speaker 2>not this fake thing masquerading as a government. Now, that's

1:00:15.520 --> 1:00:19.440
<v Speaker 2>all pretty standard sob sit ideology. What's interesting to me is,

1:00:19.440 --> 1:00:22.000
<v Speaker 2>in all the years after he filed this paperwork, he

1:00:22.040 --> 1:00:25.120
<v Speaker 2>starts to mold his ideology and begins packaging it in

1:00:25.200 --> 1:00:27.920
<v Speaker 2>new ways to audiences full of Christians who are just

1:00:28.040 --> 1:00:30.640
<v Speaker 2>sure that can't legally be required to pay taxes for

1:00:30.680 --> 1:00:34.080
<v Speaker 2>other people to use the roads right. Kent's method of

1:00:34.240 --> 1:00:37.000
<v Speaker 2>justifying this was novel and a lot easier to sell

1:00:37.040 --> 1:00:39.440
<v Speaker 2>to a wide audience than the kind of arcane sovereign

1:00:39.480 --> 1:00:43.040
<v Speaker 2>citizen mythology that he buys into. Here's Professor Bronson again.

1:00:43.760 --> 1:00:46.240
<v Speaker 2>He ultimately rests his belief that he owes no taxes,

1:00:46.280 --> 1:00:49.280
<v Speaker 2>at least to the extent anything besides bald greed underlies

1:00:49.320 --> 1:00:51.960
<v Speaker 2>that belief. On his status as a Christian and a minister.

1:00:52.240 --> 1:00:54.680
<v Speaker 2>He believes that something about being a religious believer makes

1:00:54.720 --> 1:00:57.280
<v Speaker 2>him different from the vast majority of his fellow citizens.

1:00:57.480 --> 1:01:00.600
<v Speaker 2>This difference, he believes, is it self sufficient to excuse

1:01:00.640 --> 1:01:03.920
<v Speaker 2>him from paying taxes. That is, in Hoven's mind, there

1:01:04.000 --> 1:01:07.560
<v Speaker 2>is something about the economics of religious practice that materially

1:01:07.640 --> 1:01:11.520
<v Speaker 2>alters the secular assumptions that underlie the tax law. Hoven's

1:01:11.600 --> 1:01:14.080
<v Speaker 2>understanding of the difference that frees him from the clutches

1:01:14.080 --> 1:01:17.640
<v Speaker 2>of the taxation that his fellow citizens face comprises two parts,

1:01:17.760 --> 1:01:21.000
<v Speaker 2>one descriptive and one normative. Descriptively, he argues that he

1:01:21.040 --> 1:01:23.680
<v Speaker 2>is a minister, and as a minister, everything he owns

1:01:23.720 --> 1:01:26.680
<v Speaker 2>belongs to God. Normatively, he argues that he should not

1:01:26.760 --> 1:01:29.360
<v Speaker 2>be subject to earthly taxation on money he earns doing

1:01:29.360 --> 1:01:32.440
<v Speaker 2>God's work. True, and this is there's still a lot

1:01:32.480 --> 1:01:34.560
<v Speaker 2>of people who will argue this in different ways, and

1:01:34.600 --> 1:01:36.760
<v Speaker 2>they get away with that actually a lot of the time, right,

1:01:36.840 --> 1:01:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Like churches do a lot of shit, they shouldn't be

1:01:38.720 --> 1:01:39.960
<v Speaker 2>aga if he.

1:01:40.040 --> 1:01:43.200
<v Speaker 3>Just hired an accountant, If he hire real accountant and

1:01:43.240 --> 1:01:46.160
<v Speaker 3>did a little paperwork, half of that could be true.

1:01:46.240 --> 1:01:48.240
<v Speaker 2>He could get away with a lot of his tax

1:01:48.280 --> 1:01:50.960
<v Speaker 2>burden and the iris wouldn't be willing to fight him

1:01:51.000 --> 1:01:51.160
<v Speaker 2>on it.

1:01:51.200 --> 1:01:53.440
<v Speaker 3>But he just refused to do the paperwork.

1:01:53.560 --> 1:01:56.160
<v Speaker 2>I think the professor gets it right. He's just too greedy, right,

1:01:56.240 --> 1:02:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Like he's not. He's a smarter man would recogniz that. Like, well,

1:02:00.880 --> 1:02:03.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm a greedy asshole, but my greed has a limit,

1:02:03.560 --> 1:02:05.400
<v Speaker 2>and like I don't want to. I know the government

1:02:05.400 --> 1:02:06.640
<v Speaker 2>can only be pushed so far.

1:02:07.000 --> 1:02:10.040
<v Speaker 3>Right, Like Jim Baker at least pretended to pay some taxes.

1:02:10.080 --> 1:02:14.520
<v Speaker 2>He still did go to prison, by the way, where Kids'

1:02:14.560 --> 1:02:17.880
<v Speaker 2>story's at it, But Molly, that's all gonna come in

1:02:17.960 --> 1:02:21.080
<v Speaker 2>part two. Do you have anything to plug here? At

1:02:21.080 --> 1:02:22.240
<v Speaker 2>the end of part one.

1:02:22.920 --> 1:02:25.560
<v Speaker 3>Oh, gosh, I don't really, I don't really have anything

1:02:25.560 --> 1:02:26.760
<v Speaker 3>to plug. I'm on the internet.

1:02:26.880 --> 1:02:31.280
<v Speaker 2>It sucks on there, Molly's on the internet. We're raising

1:02:31.320 --> 1:02:34.040
<v Speaker 2>funds again here behind the Bastards for the Portland Diaper Bank,

1:02:34.080 --> 1:02:37.360
<v Speaker 2>which provides diapers for free to people who do not

1:02:37.400 --> 1:02:40.760
<v Speaker 2>have enough money but have babies. You can go to

1:02:40.960 --> 1:02:45.120
<v Speaker 2>go fund me Portland Diaper Bank, behind the Bastards Portland

1:02:45.120 --> 1:02:47.240
<v Speaker 2>Diaper Bank. Go fund me and you will find the

1:02:47.280 --> 1:02:49.800
<v Speaker 2>new GoFundMe for that and you can donate money to

1:02:49.880 --> 1:02:52.600
<v Speaker 2>it and help out some people who don't have enough

1:02:52.600 --> 1:02:54.080
<v Speaker 2>money for diapers, which is a good thing.

1:02:54.200 --> 1:03:00.000
<v Speaker 3>Diapers cost a fortune. Surprisingly are just crazy for babies. Babyhower. Yeah,

1:03:00.200 --> 1:03:04.320
<v Speaker 3>like how are they getting away with this? I don't know,

1:03:04.480 --> 1:03:07.760
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. I think big diaper, big diaper.

1:03:07.920 --> 1:03:11.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that's that's really. That's the new military industrial complex.

1:03:11.440 --> 1:03:14.920
<v Speaker 2>After Vietnam. They turned all of that body bag material

1:03:14.960 --> 1:03:16.920
<v Speaker 2>into diapers and they're just making more money than ever.

1:03:17.280 --> 1:03:20.560
<v Speaker 3>That's my and we had.

1:03:20.600 --> 1:03:22.200
<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media have a couple of new shows that

1:03:22.200 --> 1:03:25.320
<v Speaker 1>you should check out. The first is Offline, hosted by

1:03:25.440 --> 1:03:29.000
<v Speaker 1>ed Zitron. Once or twice a week. They show about

1:03:29.520 --> 1:03:33.160
<v Speaker 1>the tech industry and tech world and all things happening there.

1:03:33.200 --> 1:03:36.400
<v Speaker 1>It is wonderful. And we also have a new new

1:03:36.440 --> 1:03:39.720
<v Speaker 1>weekly show hosted by Jamie Loftus called Sixteenth Minute of Fame.

1:03:40.040 --> 1:03:43.360
<v Speaker 1>It's all about the Internet's main characters and what happened

1:03:43.400 --> 1:03:46.120
<v Speaker 1>to them after they went viral. So check that out

1:03:47.120 --> 1:03:50.400
<v Speaker 1>and everything else for cool Zone at cool Zone Media. Molly,

1:03:50.560 --> 1:03:53.880
<v Speaker 1>you're at Socialist dog Mom on Twitter at Craig and

1:03:54.000 --> 1:03:57.080
<v Speaker 1>that's me. Did I forget anything else? Starboard? Did we

1:03:57.120 --> 1:03:57.720
<v Speaker 1>do all the things?

1:03:58.760 --> 1:03:59.160
<v Speaker 3>Nope?

1:03:59.720 --> 1:03:59.880
<v Speaker 5>Yes?

1:04:00.040 --> 1:04:03.280
<v Speaker 3>Yes, great bye, Go ride a dinosaur.

1:04:03.440 --> 1:04:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1:04:11.200 --> 1:04:14.480
<v Speaker 1>For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1:04:14.640 --> 1:04:17.840
<v Speaker 1>dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1:04:17.920 --> 1:04:20.320
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.