1 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 2 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: name is Joe McCormick. Today's Saturday, so we are venturing 3 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: into the vault for an older episode of the show. 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: This is part one of our series on the illusion 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: of control, a very interesting psychological phenomenon. I think you're 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: going to enjoy this series, and heads up that we 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: will be airing. 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: The series over the course of our core episode slots 9 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: for the next week, because Rob and I are going 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: to be out this week, but then we will be 11 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: back the following week with all new content. So this 12 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: episode originally aired February eighth, twenty twenty four. 13 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy the rerun. 14 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 15 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 4: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 16 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I am Joe McCormick. 17 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: And to begin today's episode, I want to start by 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: sketching out a little scenario to help you imagine something 19 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: and investigate your intuitions. So I want you to imagine 20 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: you are waiting on a friend in the lobby of 21 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: a casino hotel. Maybe you're in Las Vegas, and you 22 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: realize you've got some time to kill maybe fifteen minutes 23 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 1: before your friend gets there, and you've got a few 24 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: spare bucks in your pocket, you kind of get the 25 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: itch to go blow it on one of the slot 26 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: machines that keeps making all these exciting noises nearby. And 27 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: by the way, this is just to illustrate a point. 28 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: This is not behavior that we're necessarily advising, because, oh, 29 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, we've done episodes on slot machines before, 30 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: and you know, even if you plan to lose all 31 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: the money you bet, there's always the chance that you 32 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: just might have too much fun with them. Yeah. 33 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 4: Back in twenty fifteen, we did an episode titled One 34 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 4: arm Bandits The Science of Slot Machines, and I found 35 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 4: it rather illuminating myself. So I'd recommend anyone who's interested 36 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 4: and just just to what extent these are fair or unfair, 37 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 4: I recommend go back and listen to that episode. Spoiler 38 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 4: the House always wins. 39 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. I haven't been to Vegas, but from what I understand, 40 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 1: there's a lot of fun stuff to do other than gambling. 41 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Vegas is great. My family and I went 42 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 4: out there for the first time a few months back, 43 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 4: and yeah, there's some great restaurants. You see the Hoover 44 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 4: Dam not too far away, and they have a tremendous 45 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 4: maw wolf, so lot to see. 46 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: There is that one Omega Mart. 47 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 4: That's Omega Mart. Yeah it's special. It's pretty great. 48 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: But anyway, so back to the scenario. So you decide 49 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna blow some money at a slot machine. You 50 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: go up to the machine, you put your money in, 51 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: but you're new to this and you don't see the 52 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: button that spins the digital wheel. So you start looking 53 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 1: around and there's a lady sitting at the slot machine 54 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: next to you, and she plays these things all the time. 55 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: She sees you scanning the machine in confusion, and she 56 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: leans over and says, it's right here, and she reaches 57 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: across and presses the button for you, and then you 58 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: see the wheel spin on the digital screen. It slows down, 59 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,839 Speaker 1: there's a ding, and it's a bus. Do you lose 60 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: your bet? Now? Everybody's reaction to the scenario might be 61 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: somewhat different, but I think an extremely common reaction for 62 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: people to have would be annoyance and a feeling of 63 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: having been wronged by the woman who pushed the button 64 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: for you. And this could be for a number of reasons. 65 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: Some of those reasons might be purely social, like it 66 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: might feel like a violation of your personal space by 67 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: a stranger. You might be upset that somebody robbed you 68 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: of the fun of pressing a button, because sometimes it 69 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: can be fun to press a button. But beyond all that, 70 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: I think a very common reaction, even among people who 71 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: rationally know better, would be a feeling of having been cheated. 72 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: This random stranger didn't just invade your personal space and 73 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: interrupt your fun. She lost your money for you. It's 74 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: her fault you lost that much and did not win. 75 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: At the same time, you would probably realize correctly that 76 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: a slot machine is not a game of skill. It's 77 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: a game of chance, and thus it literally makes no 78 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: difference whatsoever to your probability of winning whether you push 79 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: the button or someone else does. It is not as 80 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: if you placed a bet on, you know, throwing darts 81 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: at a dartboard or something where conceivably you might be 82 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: better at hitting the center than the person who throws 83 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: the dart for you. Everybody knows that with the slot machine, 84 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: it truly does not matter who presses the button. And yet, 85 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: even though we know this rationally, I think. I think 86 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: if I personally were in this situation, it would be 87 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: really hard for me to shake the feeling that this 88 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: stranger had cheated me out of possible winnings. So I 89 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: would know it's not true, but it would just be 90 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: an extremely tenacious illusion that whoever presses the button really matters. 91 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is interesting to think about it. I hadn't 92 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 4: really thought about it. You know, we'll get into the 93 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 4: idea of other rituals associated with the sort of behavior, like, 94 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 4: you know, am I wearing my lucky shirt or not? 95 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 4: When I go to gamble, or when I go to 96 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 4: watch my favorite sports team or take a test, et cetera. 97 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 4: So it's interesting to think about how this scenario I 98 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 4: push the button versus a stranger pushes the button, how 99 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 4: that compares or doesn't compare to the luck related scenario 100 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 4: of I push the button with my lucky shirt on 101 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 4: or I push the button without my lucky shirt on. 102 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 4: Are we more likely to disregard the logic of the latter. 103 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 4: What have we left the stranger wear our lucky shirt 104 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 4: that still doesn't steem right? 105 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 3: Well? 106 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, these are all you know, who presses the button, 107 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: whether they're wearing their lucky charm or not. These are 108 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: all variations on the idea that there is something you 109 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: can do to increase or decrease your chance of winning 110 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: at the slot machine. And it's just not true, Like, 111 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: none of these things influence what your chances of winning are. 112 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: Your chances are equally low no matter what. 113 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, your chances are all locked up in that machine already, 114 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 4: they are programmed into it. And who pushes that button? 115 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 4: Who actually ends up executing the final the final button push, 116 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 4: whatever form that takes in a given gambling machine, it's 117 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 4: already been figured out by the. 118 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: Machine, right, And so I sketched out this scenario to 119 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: illustrate a concept in psychology called the illusion of control. 120 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: So the illusion of control refers to a common type 121 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: of cognitive illusion, a mistaken pattern of reasoning in which 122 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: we overestimate the extent to which our choices or behavior 123 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: can affect outcomes, even totally random or uncontrollable outcomes. So, 124 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: according to illusion of control theory, either we think we 125 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: have control over an outcome when we have no control 126 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: at all, or we do have some control, but we 127 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: think we have more control than we actually do. So 128 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: today we're kicking off a series where we're going to 129 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: take a look at research on the illusion of control, 130 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: to what extent the concept is a valid description of 131 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: how we think, what the evidence for it is, some 132 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: criticisms of the concept, how it works in theory and practice, 133 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: and why we might experience it to the extent that 134 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: we do. 135 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's going to be interesting to talk about 136 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 4: this and think about it, especially in a world that 137 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 4: can very often feel rather out of our control, and 138 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 4: that well discuss plays into the whole scenario. 139 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: That's right. But before we dive into the research on 140 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: this subject, I thought it would be good to kick 141 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: off with some just classic examples that we can think 142 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: of from day to day life stuff you don't even 143 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: need an experiment to see. You can just you know, 144 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: it happens to us all the time we do it. 145 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: You already mentioned Rob the idea of lucky rituals that 146 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: people put in place to help steer the outcome of 147 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: a public event on which the ritual has no rational 148 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: reason to have any influence. So whether your football team 149 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: wins that, you know, does that depend on whether you're 150 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: wearing your lucky shirt? And people might participate in lucky 151 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: rituals like this for a number of different reasons. Not 152 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: all of those reasons would be a genuine expectation that 153 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: it will help influence the outcome of the event, But 154 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: to the extent that someone does feel it will actually 155 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: change the probability of you getting the outcome you want, 156 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: that would be an example of the illusion of control. 157 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, because sometimes these activities, you know, various lucky items. 158 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 4: Sometimes it's probably more in the fun category than anything. 159 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 4: You know, you wear your lucky scarf to go enjoy 160 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 4: a football game with other football fans, you know. Yeah, 161 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 4: it's just a fun thing to. 162 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: Do, or just to regulate your own emotions. Like it 163 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: might be literally functional, but operating on the self instead 164 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: of on the external world. 165 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah. And as always, you know, to what degree 166 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 4: does something become maladaptive or a hindrance? I mean, you 167 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 4: do hear cases of Okay, someone's wearing their their lucky 168 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 4: shirt to a game. Okay, fair, someone's wearing their lucky 169 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 4: underwear to a game. Fair, someone's wearing their lucky underwear 170 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 4: to this game and they wore it to last game 171 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 4: and hasn't been washed since last game. You hear about 172 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 4: cases like that as well, And I don't know, I 173 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 4: think maybe in some of those cases there's another discussion 174 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 4: to have there, But I don't know sports and their rituals. 175 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 4: There's a lot going on here. 176 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the version that's truly maladaptive. 177 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 4: Now. Other times, you know, I think we shouldn't dismiss 178 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 4: the importance of religious faith in all of this, particularly 179 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 4: regarding amulets. Various traditions, various religions out there have some 180 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 4: sort of an amulant tradition, some sort of essentially a 181 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 4: lucky charm tradition, be it a you know, a crucifix 182 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 4: or a small statue of a deity that you may 183 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 4: carry around with you and that may be used casually 184 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 4: or you know, very devotedly. They're different approaches to that 185 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 4: as well. There's a old spectrum in that area of 186 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 4: religious faith as well. Well. 187 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'd say that might well be one of 188 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: those things that is literally efficacious in some way. Maybe 189 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: not in the sense of changing the outcome of a 190 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: game or something, but it does change something about you 191 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: and is helpful in that way. 192 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, And then there's the notion that a lot 193 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 4: of times the addition of a lucky totem or a 194 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 4: lucky practice of some sort very often does not necessarily 195 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 4: induce added cost or burden. You know, even if we're 196 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 4: mostly dismissive of the idea that said item or said 197 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 4: activity will enhance our luck or will make some sort 198 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 4: of experience, you know, pass us by with more ease. 199 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 4: Even if we're not we don't have a huge investment 200 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 4: in that idea. It kind of comes down to, well, 201 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 4: why not, right, is it going to hurt? I might 202 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 4: as well have the amulet on me. Maybe it will 203 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 4: help if there's a one percent chance it helps. Great, 204 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 4: because all it is setting in my pocket. 205 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: Right, And you know, I'd plan to get into this 206 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: more in one of the later episodes in the series, 207 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: maybe in part two. But there is a question of 208 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: to the extent that we experience an illusion of control, 209 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: why do we experience one? Are there ways in which 210 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: it might actually be beneficial to human life even if 211 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: it's generating false beliefs? 212 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we kind of get into that basic 213 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 4: area of like, yeah, and it makes life a little easier, 214 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 4: and it's not hurting you, it's not hurting other people, 215 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 4: then why not? 216 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: Okay? I want to mention another example from everyday life. 217 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: This one comes up a lot when people think about 218 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: illusion of control the closed door button on an elevator. 219 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: Does that button actually do anything? I think this example 220 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: actually has two levels of possible illusion of control. The 221 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: first one and we can quibble with whether this counts 222 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,839 Speaker 1: as illusion of control or not, But the first level 223 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: is the question of whether the closed door button actually 224 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: closes the door. I was reading some articles about this 225 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: and was getting some contradictconclusions from them, but like according 226 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: to there was an article in the New York Times 227 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: that cited some people in the elevator industry who says 228 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: who say that in most cases the button actually does 229 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: not change how fast the door closes. Maybe it does 230 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: in some percentage of elevators, but in the majority, at 231 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: least within the United States, it doesn't. I was reading 232 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: in another article that lifts in the UK are more 233 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: likely to have a fully functional closed door button that 234 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: does accelerate how fast the door shut. Elevators in the 235 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: US most of the time close on a timer, and 236 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: even when the closed door button is functional, it probably 237 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: works on a delay from when you press it instead 238 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: of immediately, So it's really questionable how much faster, if 239 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: at all, the doors will close after the button is pressed. 240 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: So I think the answer is not totally clear on 241 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: how often the closed door button does anything in the States, 242 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: But many people consider these buttons in the US just 243 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: a placebo. It does nothing except maybe makes the passengers 244 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: feel better. 245 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 4: Sometimes I feel like the closed door button exists mostly 246 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 4: to enhance the awkwardness of reaching for the open door button. 247 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 4: When someone tries to catch the elevator behind you on 248 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 4: the door to close closing, will they correctly assume that 249 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 4: you were trying to help them, or will they think 250 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 4: that you were desperately trying to keep them from boarding 251 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 4: the elevator like close fasted. No one else on this 252 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 4: elevator with me. 253 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 1: That's a good point. Now. On the other hand, I 254 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: think you could make a good case that the closed 255 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: door button shouldn't count as illusion of control because there 256 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: is genuine ambiguity about whether it does something or not. Like, 257 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: people really don't have information that should tell them whether 258 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: or not it works, and there's a reasonable assumption that 259 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: it should work. So pressing it is rational even whether 260 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,479 Speaker 1: or not it works, because you have a reasonable expectation 261 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: that it would. 262 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, it says it works. What you're just doing? What 263 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 4: the button is inviting you to do exactly. 264 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: But there's the second level of door closed button that 265 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: I think is definitely illusion of control, which is, have 266 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: you ever seen somebody who's in a hurry they get 267 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: in an elevator, they not only press the button, which 268 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: may or may not work, they press the button after 269 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: watching somebody else press it already, like, oh, the other 270 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: guy didn't press it, right, I need to press it 271 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: to make sure it'll work. 272 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I mean sometimes you get on board an 273 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 4: elevator and there's this moment of uncertainty did the other 274 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 4: person press it. You didn't see them press it, you 275 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 4: would maybe assume they did, And it might be a 276 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 4: little awkward if you press it now, because then you're 277 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 4: saying like, I'm not sure you did this right, I'm 278 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 4: not sure you did it. I'm going to press it, 279 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 4: but yeah, if you see them do it, that is 280 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 4: an extra level of social awkwardness right there. And I 281 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 4: guess you're leaning into the idea that, Okay, if I 282 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 4: press it more, then it will be more likely to 283 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 4: comply exactly. 284 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe there is reasoning of that sort, Like I 285 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: wonder if button presses are cumulative. 286 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, I often fall into this as well. I mean, 287 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 4: I'll do this thing where I go to use the 288 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 4: click to lock the car, and I won't press it once. 289 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 4: I'll press it two or three times, which confounds members 290 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 4: of my family when I do this, But for some reason, 291 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 4: like it just feels like three is more certain, even 292 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 4: though there's no cumulative effect there. There's not like, Okay, 293 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 4: if you press it three times to lock, you have 294 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 4: to press it three times to unlock it, which I 295 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 4: don't know. I'd kind of like that feature personally, but 296 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 4: that's just not how it works. One click should do it, 297 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 4: but my mind thinks additional clicks would be necessary. 298 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: Triples is best. Then you know it's safe. 299 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 4: That's true, but it's not true. It's it's just one 300 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 4: of those things we do. Another thing, another like clear 301 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 4: example of this one that I think a lot of 302 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 4: us encounter rather frequently, and another potential PLACEIBO button is 303 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 4: the crosswalk button, and a lot of the same situations 304 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 4: apply here. You know, you get up there to the crosswalk, 305 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 4: there's someone else already standing there. You assume they pressed 306 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 4: it already, but you're gonna press it as well, or 307 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 4: you're waiting on it seems to be taking forever. You 308 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 4: know it's been pressed. You've pressed it once, maybe press 309 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 4: it two or three more times to let it know 310 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 4: that you mean business. You need to get across the street, 311 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 4: throw up the red light, throw up the little green 312 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 4: walking or white or the light up walking man. 313 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: Also, as with the elevator button, there's legitimate question over 314 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: whether the button does anything or not. 315 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 4: That's right. I was looking into this a little bit, 316 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 4: and the broad answer on whether the cross button works 317 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 4: at all seems to be a resounding It depends so 318 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 4: different countries, different city traffic systems, They're gonna have the 319 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 4: button function differently. Sometimes it actually speeds up crossings, other 320 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 4: times it doesn't. But what do we do? We push 321 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 4: it anyway, And part of that is, again, you're standing there, 322 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 4: you probably don't have anything else to do. Push it 323 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 4: a few more times, see if it works. 324 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: As we already established, Sometimes it's just fun to push 325 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: a button. 326 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you're in a situation where you either 327 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 4: have no control or you realize you have a limited 328 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 4: amount of control. What can you do. You can't get 329 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 4: out there and stop cars, you can't stop traffic, But 330 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 4: you can press the button again and again, and it 331 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 4: feels like, at least you're doing something now. The illusion 332 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 4: of control also applies to situations in which we know 333 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 4: experience anxiety due to perceived lack of control. And one 334 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 4: of these, and I can relate to this a bit, 335 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 4: is flying. Two examples I've read about with this scenario, 336 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 4: or of course there's of course pre enduring flight routines. 337 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 4: Many of these are so slight that we might not 338 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 4: even think about them as being pre flight rituals having 339 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 4: to do with an illusion of control. The examples given 340 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 4: in the Air Travel Design Guide include things like wearing 341 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 4: comfy clothing or brushing one's teeth before a flight. I 342 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 4: don't know, those just sound like good things to do 343 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 4: before along flight. Yeah, but they. 344 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: Also controlling an outcome. I mean that just seems like 345 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: that's what you do to feel good. 346 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, But I mean, I guess, and I can relate 347 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 4: to this a bit. It's like, maybe like feeling good 348 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 4: is that thing you have control over, and so maybe 349 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 4: you've become more indulgent of those in a way to 350 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 4: sort of, you know, to make something that can be 351 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 4: uncomfortable more comfortable, which just obviously you want to do that, 352 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 4: but also it's like so many things are out of 353 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 4: my control here. But the exact headpillow have I have 354 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 4: is in my control. The exact playlist I download ahead 355 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 4: of time is in my control. How you know which 356 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 4: movie I downloaded my phone prior to the flight. That's 357 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 4: within my control. I will do that, and I'll put 358 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 4: a lot of effort into. 359 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: That, and maybe from all of that effort at control, 360 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: there could be some conceptual creep where actually it makes 361 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: you feel like the plane is less likely to crash. 362 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and I don't even know if necessarily 363 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 4: everyone's mind directly goes there, you know. But it's like, 364 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 4: you know, you're you're dealing with one thing that they 365 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 4: when I was reading this ear Travel Design guide website 366 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 4: that they pointed out, you know, it's like there's a 367 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 4: lot going on when you fly. Obviously, you know, you're 368 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 4: you're traveling, You're you're your your circadian rhythms are are interrupted, 369 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 4: you may eat lunch three times in a given day, 370 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,479 Speaker 4: that sort of thing, and then there are all these 371 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 4: other constraints. So there's a lot going on in the 372 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 4: mind and in the body. Uh. They also cite gamification 373 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 4: as a as a way that we interact with this 374 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 4: illusion of control. I found this bit interesting. This is 375 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 4: a quote. The airport is a unique type of architectural 376 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 4: typology where the spaces are subdivided and arranged to usher 377 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 4: large groups of people to move uni directionally. This encourages 378 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 4: people to develop strategies to gain the system and to 379 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 4: feel competitive with other passengers moving through the airport. 380 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's right. I feel seen that. That. 381 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: That's like I do not. I'm not normally a competitive walker, 382 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: like trying to get ahead of people walking, you know, 383 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: around me on the sidewalk. The only scenario in which 384 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: I catch myself doing that is at the airport, and 385 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: I want, yeah, that may be right that it's like 386 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: because it's funneling, you know, structured to have everybody moving 387 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: in the same direction, and it's so yeah, controlled like that. 388 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: It's some for some reason, makes you feel like I've 389 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: got to get in front of this guy here, you know, 390 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: I've got Yeah. 391 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 4: So it's interesting to think about it from a design standpoint, 392 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 4: where a lot of control needs to be taken away 393 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 4: from people going through this system, but you also need 394 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 4: to give them a sense of control, control over little things, 395 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 4: and also realize that there's going to be this illusion 396 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 4: of control in place as well. But you have another 397 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 4: example to bring up here, and this one is even 398 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 4: more fun than flying. 399 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: Oh, I wonder if you had the same experience. So 400 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: I was thinking back to childhood, and this may be 401 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: an embarrassing admission, but I'm thinking about the illusory functionality 402 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: of objectively non responsive video game controls. A couple of 403 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: examples here. I am at the Pizza Hut. I'm a 404 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: little kid. I desperately want to play the Neogos or 405 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: the X Men Arcade Cabinet, but I have no quarters, 406 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: so I can't play. But while these machines are idle, 407 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 1: there is a kind of pre recorded gameplay demo that 408 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: loops on the screen, so it looks like somebody's playing. 409 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: You know, the characters are walking around fighting the bad 410 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: guys and stuff. And according to vague memories, I can't 411 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: be sure I'm right about this, but I think I 412 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: would sometimes go up to the machine and falsely believe 413 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: that I was maybe somewhat partially controlling the gameplay in 414 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: this demo by moving the joystick around without putting money in. 415 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: Or maybe what I'm remembering is that I would stare 416 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: at the machine while the demo's going and I would 417 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: not be touching it, but I would be imagining that 418 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: this were possible. Another variation is a trick sometimes. I 419 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: think people would play on their little siblings with home 420 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: video game consoles, So instead of fighting over whose turn 421 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: it is to play Mario, maybe the big sister actually 422 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: plays Mario and gives the little sister another controller which 423 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: is not plugged in to make her think she's playing, 424 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: while actually she's just watching the big sister play on 425 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,719 Speaker 1: the screen and pressing buttons that do nothing. I recalled 426 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: this happening around me and being surprisingly convincing. 427 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 4: I guess maybe he's more convincing with some games than others. 428 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 4: But I remember I did this as well with arcade 429 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 4: games when I was a little kid, and arguably with 430 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 4: the I mean the X Men Arcade Cabinet that was 431 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 4: That was a pretty great game. But on the other hand, 432 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 4: you're probably better off just thinking you were playing it. 433 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 4: Looking back at it from a modern standpoint. 434 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: I really liked being Colossus and doing the roar. 435 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, the yeah, it's funny. I had an experience 436 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 4: with this just the other day. We were out to 437 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 4: eat at a place that had arcade machines, and they 438 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 4: were old arcade machines, and my son and one of 439 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 4: his friends and my son's eleven. Now, they went up 440 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 4: to these machines and I hadn't given them any quarters, 441 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 4: and I think I shuld give them some quarters so 442 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 4: they can play these machines. But they're over there moving 443 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 4: the sticks around, watching the screen, and I was like, oh, 444 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 4: I think they're just pretending to play. Oh, And then 445 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 4: I was like, I think maybe they're a little too 446 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 4: old to be doing that. And then I asked them, 447 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 4: do you guys want some real quarters? They're like, oh, 448 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 4: these machines are free, so it was a non issue. 449 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, the reaches you reach a point where 450 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 4: you outgrow it for sure, where you don't just want 451 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 4: to watch the games. You don't just want to watch 452 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 4: other people play these games. You want to get in there, 453 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 4: even if you are going to fail miserably and just 454 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 4: have to sing more quarters in the thing. 455 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: I will pay the endless tax to be Colossus. Yeah. Wait, 456 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 1: what was your X Men arcade game character? Oh? 457 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 4: You know, oftentimes when I would play, there were like 458 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 4: a lot of people, so it's like whoever you could get. 459 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 4: But you know, obviously Colossus will Cyclops was pretty great. 460 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 4: He had the ibam attack, you know, that would really 461 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 4: tear up the screen. 462 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: I remember Colossus was my first pick and night Crawler 463 00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: was my second. 464 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, he had a good attack as well. I mean, really, 465 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 4: I would just be happy. I was happy to be 466 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 4: playing the X Men arcade game. 467 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: All right, Well, I think maybe we should talk about 468 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: some of the research history on the illusion of control, 469 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: some of the papers that have explored this topic in 470 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: the past. And though this phenomenon had been I think 471 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: noticed previously in a variety of ways. It gets the 472 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: name illusion of control from important research by the American 473 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: psychologist Ellen J. Langer, who published a paper in nineteen 474 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: seventy five called the Illusion of Control in the Journal 475 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: of Personality and Social Psychology. 476 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 4: Langer was born in nineteen forty seven. She's also known 477 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 4: for her work on aging and mindfulness theory. I also 478 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 4: want to call out that she was a series consultant 479 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,719 Speaker 4: on a BBC series title The Young Ones. But this 480 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 4: is not the classic comedy series, but rather a documentary 481 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 4: that explored reminiscence therapy. 482 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,479 Speaker 1: I'm not familiar either way. What's the comedy series? 483 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 4: Oh? The Young Ones? Oh? It is a This is 484 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 4: a classic British comedy series about these young men living 485 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,719 Speaker 4: in a like a dormitory house type situation. Yeah, and 486 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 4: they would also have musical guests on the show, like 487 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 4: Motorhead was on one of the episodes. 488 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: Nice. 489 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, so yeah, classic classic series. I'm sure it may 490 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 4: have come up in passing on Weird House Cinema before, 491 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 4: but I have a feeling in the future we'll probably 492 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 4: touch on some films on Weird House Cinema that include 493 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 4: actors from that show. All right, But the Young Ones 494 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 4: series that she was associated this is a documentary series 495 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 4: that came like decades later. 496 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, But in the nineteen seventy five paper The 497 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 1: Illusion of Control, Langer defined the phenomenon somewhat more narrowly 498 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: than we've been talking about. She defined the illusion of 499 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: control as quote, an expectancy of a personal success probability 500 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: inappropriately higher than the objective probability would warrant. So I'm 501 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: not going to do a detailed breakdown of Langer's full 502 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: paper here, because there are like six experiments total a 503 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: lot of variables being tested, but I'll summarize the main 504 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: idea and a couple of highlights that stuck out to me. 505 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: So her intro mentions a bunch of different reasons for 506 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: thinking that. In her words, quote, while people may pay 507 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: lip service to the concept of chance, they behave as 508 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: though chance events are subject to control. And she produces 509 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: a lot of examples given to to provide prima facie 510 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: evidence of this idea before the experiments are carried out. 511 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: And one of these examples that I thought was interesting 512 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: was a sociological observation of how people treat dice when gambling. 513 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: She mentions particularly behavior observed by Hinslin in nineteen sixty seven. 514 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: So the idea is, if you watch people playing a 515 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: dice based game, maybe you're in a casino in Vegas again, 516 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: and you go up to a craps table, whatever their 517 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: true beliefs about chance or or skill being involved in 518 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: this game, and it is a game of chance, their 519 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: externally visible behavior implies that they think they have some 520 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: degree of control over the numbers they roll with the dice. 521 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: Examples here would include that people tend to roll dice 522 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: more softly if they want to roll low numbers, and 523 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: throw the dice hard if they want to roll high numbers. 524 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: They appear to concentrate in preparation for the dice throw, 525 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: the same way a person would concentrate before like doing 526 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: a skill based throw, like an aimed throw if they're 527 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: playing darts or something. And this belief in dice rolls 528 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: as a skilled activity also seem to be present in observers, 529 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: because other people at the table would tend to bet 530 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: with a person who appeared to be exerting more control 531 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: in this way. 532 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 4: Oh, that's fascinating. You know, I don't gamble with the dice, 533 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 4: but I do throw some D twenties pretty much every 534 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 4: week in Dungeons and Dragons, and I know that I 535 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 4: do catch myself. I hadn't really thought about it before, 536 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,439 Speaker 4: but like, if I'm rolling, especially an important D twenty, 537 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'm gonna put a little time and effort 538 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 4: into it, and there's gonna be a pause. I'm gonna 539 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 4: make sure my form is right. I'm gonna make sure 540 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 4: I get an appropriate clatter, you know, from that from 541 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 4: that that twenty. 542 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: As I give it a roll, I do exactly the 543 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: same thing. And I it feels like I can roll 544 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: the dice better or worse. I know that I can't. 545 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm still gonna get a natural one here and there, 546 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 4: but but it feels better for some reason. 547 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: And to be fair, dice rolls in reality are probably 548 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: not perfectly random like I think. I've read about gambling 549 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: cheats who with a lot of training claim that they 550 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: can learn ways to like hold or toss the dice 551 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: so as to increase the chances of getting the roll 552 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: they want. I think, especially if they do things you're 553 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: not allowed to do, like sliding the dice on the 554 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: on the velvet instead of actually throlling it, throwing them 555 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: so they tumble. But anyway, for the vast vast majority 556 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: of regular gamblers, this is not the case. People cannot 557 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: do this most for the most part, and dice can 558 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: be treated as effectively random. If they weren't effectively random, 559 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: casinos would not use them, That's right. Anyway. To come 560 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: back to Langer's paper from seventy five, so to test 561 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: for an illusion of control, which she hypothesized, she did 562 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: six experiments in which chance based games had various elements 563 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: that we would associate with skill based games introduced and 564 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: this was her idea. It was that if you make 565 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: a game feel like it is skill based even though 566 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: it's clearly not, people will be confused into thinking that 567 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: they have control over outcomes that they actually don't. For 568 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: one aga example, one variable that is explored in this 569 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: paper is the variable of competition. If you are competing 570 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: against an opponent in a skill based game, the ability 571 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: of your opponent determines your likelihood of winning. Therefore, if 572 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: you're placing bets on whether or not you're going to win, 573 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: how much you bet will in part depend on how 574 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: good your opponent is at the game. So you know, 575 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: if you're playing chess against a chess pro, you're probably 576 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,479 Speaker 1: going to bet less or maybe bet nothing. If you're 577 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: playing chess against somebody you perceive as worse than you 578 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: at chess, you will probably bet more. Of course, if 579 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: it's a purely chance based game, there is no relevant 580 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: skill variable. So if you're offered the chance to bet 581 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: on outcomes, your betting behavior should be based on something else, 582 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: maybe social factors, maybe just baseline appetite for risk, maybe 583 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: a desire to be seen by others as taking risks, etc. 584 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: It should be based on something other than your perception 585 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: of whether you're likely to win based on how good 586 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: your opponent is. That doesn't make any difference in a 587 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: chance based game. So, in the first experiment described in 588 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: the study, Langer had people play a purely chance based 589 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: card game. The game was high card draw between two players, 590 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: no skill involved, pure luck of the draw. You pick 591 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: a card out of the deck. Is your card higher 592 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: than the other person's. Is there any room in looking 593 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: at that game to think I'm better than other people 594 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: at this There shouldn't be. But the independent variable manipulated 595 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: by the experimenters here was the behavior and appearance of 596 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: your opponent. Do they seem confident and self assured or 597 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: do they seem awkward and nervous and prepared to lose? 598 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: In other words, are you playing against somebody who feels 599 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: like a winner or not? And remember, there's no logical 600 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: reason anybody should be a winner at this game. There's 601 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: zero skill involved. And yet the experiment did find that 602 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: people were willing to bet significantly more against a competitor 603 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: who seemed awkward and nervous than they were against a 604 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: competitor who seemed outgoing and confident. Now, I think this 605 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: is a really interesting result, but it's important to note 606 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: the limitations of this experimental design, and Langer herself flags 607 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: some of these limitations in the paper, so they didn't 608 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: go unnoticed by the authors here. So it seems like this. 609 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: It seems likely that this result could be caused by 610 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: a mistaken perception that skill or control would somehow factor 611 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: into this random game. But you can't be sure that's 612 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: the cause guiding the differences in how people bet. Maybe 613 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: other variables are operating here in response to the behavior 614 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: and appearance of the competitor. Maybe they have to do 615 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: with how the subject wants to be perceived in terms 616 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: of taking risks or not. Who knows. There could be 617 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: other things at work here. So that's the competition element, 618 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: which Liner concludes could make a chance based game have 619 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: illusory qualities of a skill based game. Other elements like 620 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: this explored in the paper are choice. So the idea 621 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: is if you give people a choice over, say, which 622 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: lottery ticket they receive, of course, it makes no difference 623 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: in the probability of winning, it increases their feeling of 624 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: the likelihood of winning, though with the choice element in particular, 625 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: there's a study I came across from twenty twenty one. 626 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: I might get into this more in the second episode, 627 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: but that study undercuts specifically the choice variable in particular, 628 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: so whether or not choice has this effect is up 629 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: for debate. But other ones explored in this paper are 630 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: familiarity with the game or with elements of the game. 631 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: So familiarity would be associated with a better chance of 632 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: winning a skill based game. Right, if you've played the 633 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: game before, you're probably better at it. You're more likely 634 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: to win in a chance game, it doesn't matter, but 635 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: this he found that familiarity made people more confident in 636 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: their ability to win. 637 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 4: Okay, I mean I could see where like, if you 638 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 4: know that what the odds are, even if you know 639 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 4: the odds are slim, like you do the math, You're like, 640 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,760 Speaker 4: all right, I have a five percent chance of pulling 641 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 4: the right card. You know you could Still there's still 642 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 4: plenty of room in the human psyche to lean into 643 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 4: that and think I've got a five percent shot. That's 644 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 4: that's a non zero percent chance of winning this game. 645 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: Well, and there are games that have that are largely 646 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: determined by chance, but also have skill elements where familiarity 647 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: can make a big difference. Like I would say familiarity 648 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 1: with playing poker probably makes a big difference in how 649 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,280 Speaker 1: well you do, because how well you do in poker 650 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,439 Speaker 1: is a mix of chance and skill. You know, it's 651 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: the chance of what cards you draw, but also the 652 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: skill of like your betting strategy and all that. 653 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess it also comes down to, like, what 654 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 4: does it mean to lose in a given game. I 655 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 4: haven't played much in the way of poker, but it's 656 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 4: my understanding, like a game like poker gambling games where 657 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,479 Speaker 4: actual money of any value is involved, losing just sucks. 658 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 4: There's no fun in losing. If you're losing at the game, 659 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 4: you're not having a good time. Whereas, and certainly you 660 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 4: can take that attitude, unfortunately into any gaming scenario. But 661 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 4: if you're doing it right, losing or rolling poorly, whatever 662 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 4: the exact form this takes in say, Dungeons and Dragons 663 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 4: is not necessarily bad. It can be a great moment 664 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 4: for character development, storytelling, and so forth. Likewise, just for 665 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 4: fun games like I'll play a bit of this, this 666 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 4: little phone game called Marvel Snap. It's pretty fun. You're 667 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 4: not betting any real money on it, and sometimes like losing, 668 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 4: Sometimes losing is likely irritating, but other times it's amusing 669 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 4: to see how the other person beats you. And then 670 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 4: sometimes you know, you know, Okay, I've got a very 671 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 4: slim chance of pulling this combo off or you know 672 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 4: this real hail Mary maneuver to use a sports term. 673 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 4: But sometimes you go for it because you don't have 674 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 4: money on the line. It's not the the world. If 675 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 4: you lose, you're likely to lose. But if there's a 676 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 4: small chance you're going to pull off something amazing, you 677 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 4: go for it. And you do that in games like 678 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:09,839 Speaker 4: Dungeons and Dragons as well. 679 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,959 Speaker 1: That's right, and this highlights that. I mean a big 680 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,280 Speaker 1: thing about studying games is that there are different reasons 681 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: people play games, and not all games are just about winning. 682 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: I think one reason that games like this, if you're 683 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,879 Speaker 1: going to study them in terms of trying to find 684 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: people's real motivation to win, you need things like cash 685 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 1: prizes because that makes the winning condition really meaningful. Yeah, 686 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: because yeah, if there's not money involved, I'm just like, 687 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's fun to just play a weird 688 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: game and lose and not know what you're doing. 689 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 4: I mean, whereas saying a game like high card draw, 690 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,280 Speaker 4: it's only going to be interesting if there's money involved 691 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 4: on missum exactly. 692 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: But anyway, coming back, so this study found in its 693 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 1: experiments that familiarity with a game, even a game purely 694 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 1: of chance, where familiarity would actually not make any difference 695 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: at all, people still seem to behave as if they 696 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: thought it made a difference. Another variable looked at in 697 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: these experiments was the subject's level of involvement. You know, 698 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: how involved or hands on are you with the process 699 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 1: that decides the winner. So, in general, this original nineteen 700 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: seventy five paper found that, yes, experiments do find that 701 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: adding in elements that superficially remind people of skill based 702 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: games increases the illusion of control. And the research did 703 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: not stop there. There have been many, many studies on 704 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,720 Speaker 1: the illusion of control in the decade since this paper 705 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy five. There have been sort of three 706 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: major branches of investigatory methods to look into the evidence 707 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: for the illusion of control and to understand what variables 708 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,919 Speaker 1: influence when and the extent to which it occurs. There's 709 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 1: also been some criticism of the idea and maybe looking 710 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,280 Speaker 1: at different theoretical ways to make sense of the results 711 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 1: of these kinds of experiments. And so I think maybe 712 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: in the next episode we're going to talk a bit 713 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: more about the research history, talk about what some variables 714 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: are that determine when people experience an illusion of control, 715 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: and look at criticisms of the concept. 716 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 4: All right, so join us next time as we'll continue 717 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 4: this look at the illusion of control. In the meantime, 718 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 4: we'd love to hear from everyone out out there, because 719 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 4: you know, we've touched on some very basic ideas about 720 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 4: human nature here and specific examples of gameplay and gambling 721 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 4: and so forth, and so I know you're gonna have 722 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 4: a lot of thoughts and we'd love to hear from you, 723 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 4: so write in. We'll have that email address here at 724 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 4: the end of the episode. A couple other ways to 725 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 4: interact with the show. I haven't no think I've mentioned 726 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 4: these recently, but if you are on the Facebook, there 727 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 4: is a Facebook group for Stuff to Blow your Mind. 728 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 4: It is the Stuff to Blow your Mind discussion module. 729 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 4: You just go there, you ask to be admitted, and 730 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 4: if I think you have to answer a question, that's 731 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,359 Speaker 4: a very easy one you should be able to get 732 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 4: if you listen to the show. Also, there is a 733 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 4: discord server room what have you for Stuff to Blow 734 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 4: your Mind? If you want to join that, email us 735 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 4: and we'll send you the link It's that simple. And 736 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,439 Speaker 4: let's see what else do we mention? Oh yeah, thanks 737 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 4: to everyone out there who jumped in and give us 738 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,399 Speaker 4: a nice rating and review on the various places where 739 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 4: you can do that, and yeah, continue to ask for that. 740 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 4: If you haven't rated the show and given us a 741 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 4: sprinkling of stars, go ahead and do that because that 742 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,799 Speaker 4: helps us out. And likewise, if you listen to the 743 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 4: show on an Apple device, Apple Podcasts and so forth, 744 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 4: maybe pop in and just make sure that you're still 745 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 4: subscribed and that you were receiving downloads. 746 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway. 747 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us 748 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 749 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 750 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 751 00:39:54,600 --> 00:40:02,920 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. 752 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 3: Stuffed to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 753 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 3: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 754 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:26,320 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.