Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works
Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh
Speaker 1: Clark to Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Yep, there's Jerry and
Speaker 1: this is Stuff you Should Know. That was great, Thanks man.
Speaker 1: Do I sound like Share? Have you sound like T
Speaker 1: paying T Josh T Josh or Snoop Dogg? Does he
Speaker 1: do the auto to? He factors into this big time
Speaker 1: later on? Oh well, I don't even know about that,
Speaker 1: so I've got some of my lead. This is kind
Speaker 1: of fun. I don't know how much we're gonna do
Speaker 1: that because people are probably like, stop it right now. Oh, Chuck,
Speaker 1: I think we should do it a lot. Are you done? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I'm done. Um, we could have just auto tuned this
Speaker 1: whole thing. Yeah, you know, maybe we should. Maybe we
Speaker 1: should maybe from this moment, Flore, we should just started
Speaker 1: tune the rest of the episode starting now. Let's sabotage
Speaker 1: our careers. Uh, you've got an intro for this, fancy intro.
Speaker 1: I think we just did it, buddy. Okay, well, let's
Speaker 1: get in the way back machine then, my friend, Okay,
Speaker 1: we don't have to go back that far because I
Speaker 1: know where we're going, it's gonna be a short trip.
Speaker 1: Let's go back to Oh Summer Boom. I'm you and
Speaker 1: Iron the club. We're hanging out, we're drinking the rum
Speaker 1: and coke. You can find us in the club and
Speaker 1: uh we're we're dancing, We're getting down and grooving too.
Speaker 1: Uh to share his latest jam, Believe Believe. It's a
Speaker 1: hot jam, a hot, hot, hot jam that's released in
Speaker 1: the summer. It's summertime. As you can tell, it's hot
Speaker 1: in the club. Cheat, and I've got on my my
Speaker 1: my short pants. I'm us like I'm out for a
Speaker 1: night at the Rocks. I'm wearing a shirt. So I noticed, Actually,
Speaker 1: how did you not? Well? Yeah, the third nipple really
Speaker 1: stands out. So we're in the club where jamming and
Speaker 1: share song is on, and uh, something happens at about
Speaker 1: thirty five seconds into the song, and you and I
Speaker 1: are just like, whoa daddy? Did you just hear that?
Speaker 1: It changes everything. It changed the whole tone of the club,
Speaker 1: Like the club was like okay, and now it's banging
Speaker 1: yek Yeah, because of a little something called auto tune. Uh,
Speaker 1: what sounded like a little electronic glitch was very purposeful
Speaker 1: and it was the first time the auto tune had
Speaker 1: been used in this way. So what Josh is auto
Speaker 1: tune was quite a set up? Uh, can we do
Speaker 1: the rest of the episode in the club? Yeah? Why not? Okay,
Speaker 1: just keep those rumbings cokes coming. Okay, that's cool. Um,
Speaker 1: So let me let me stop you for a second. Right,
Speaker 1: because the way you described it, you made it sound
Speaker 1: like everybody was like, oh, Share just used auto tune. No, no,
Speaker 1: everybody said what was that? That was awesome? Although some
Speaker 1: people were like, what was that? Don't ever do that again,
Speaker 1: but most people were like, wow, Shared just released her
Speaker 1: biggest hit of her entire career, and it was a
Speaker 1: pretty long career. She just came back like that just
Speaker 1: established her comeback was this track, and it actually became
Speaker 1: one of the greatest best selling singles of all time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think, I mean, it would have been a
Speaker 1: probably a big song anyway, but I think most definitely
Speaker 1: auto tune kicked it into the stratasy, gave it just
Speaker 1: the extra something. It became part of the talking but
Speaker 1: everyone was talking about it. So everybody went to her
Speaker 1: producer and said, dude, how did you do that? We
Speaker 1: want to know how to do that, and he was like, vocoder. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he lied, He lied, He lied big time. He lied
Speaker 1: in person to other producers, he lied in interviews, he lied, lied,
Speaker 1: lied about how he made that track because he wanted
Speaker 1: to keep it to himself because it was so huge,
Speaker 1: and it became so huge, Chuck that at first Auto
Speaker 1: Tune was called the Share Effect. Even the company that
Speaker 1: produced Auto Tune and Terry's, which we'll talk about in
Speaker 1: a minute, called it in their instructional book, the Share Effect.
Speaker 1: They probably still do, don't they. They don't mention it
Speaker 1: any longer. Yeah, um. But the so it was, it
Speaker 1: was a huge deal, and this guy lied and kept
Speaker 1: it under wraps, and for many years it was very mysterious. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Let's actually, if you live under a rock, let's go
Speaker 1: ahead and play that clip of the very first thirty
Speaker 1: five seconds into that song where Share says I can't
Speaker 1: break through. Yeah, right there, boom right there. Music changed
Speaker 1: from that point forward. So what what this guy, what
Speaker 1: her producer was saying was vocoder. Vocoder is something that's
Speaker 1: been around for a very long time. If you've ever
Speaker 1: listened to any Pete Frampton, Peter Frampton and he things,
Speaker 1: do you feel like we do that whole long guitar
Speaker 1: solo or whatever. He's breathing into a tube connected to
Speaker 1: his guitar, which is electrifying his voice. Vocoder had been
Speaker 1: around for a very long time, but there's different ways
Speaker 1: of doing it. That That was definitely the tube effect
Speaker 1: through the guitar, but you can also just use it to,
Speaker 1: you know, make your voice robotic like Beck to turn
Speaker 1: tables in a microphone or Mr Roboto with sticks, But
Speaker 1: all different ways to use it. This thing, this sounded different,
Speaker 1: the share effect. It was a little different, sure, And
Speaker 1: I wonder how this guy talked his way out of Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean like if if if a producer like, okay,
Speaker 1: well show me how you did it on vocoder, if
Speaker 1: he was like over here and then just like ran
Speaker 1: out of the room, I don't. I don't think he
Speaker 1: talked out of it. I think he was just another
Speaker 1: line music producer and he was just like okay, well busted, okay.
Speaker 1: So um, Apparently along the way people figured out here
Speaker 1: there what this guy did believe and they started using
Speaker 1: it themselves, but very very sparsely. All right, So, Josh,
Speaker 1: what is auto tune? All right? I'll answer your question
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna keep asking it, all right. So auto
Speaker 1: tune is a plug in originally released for the audio
Speaker 1: editing software pro tools. Yeah, it's a software piece that
Speaker 1: allows you and the original UM intent and how it's
Speaker 1: still mostly used is to pitch correct UM singer's voice.
Speaker 1: So when you, when you or I go into the
Speaker 1: studio to record those albums that will never release, but
Speaker 1: we just record for fun. Um we hit flat notes
Speaker 1: here there. Oh not me. I have perfect pitch. I
Speaker 1: hit flat notes here there, perfect um, and everybody does.
Speaker 1: It's a normal thing. Sure for most of eternity. UM
Speaker 1: music producers would say, blue Eyes chairman, I need another take.
Speaker 1: That was a great take, but you had a couple
Speaker 1: of flat notes. Give me another take just like that one.
Speaker 1: And Frank would finish his scotch, put out a cigarette
Speaker 1: and say you get one more shine hood. What was
Speaker 1: the Joe? Oh you didn't even see spinal tap, did you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you finally saw it, finally, Okay, But I don't remember
Speaker 1: any Frank Sinatra t Yeah there was. When Bruno Kirby
Speaker 1: is the Limo Drivers, He's talks about Sammy Davis's book,
Speaker 1: Yes I can, and he says what they should have
Speaker 1: called it is. Yes, I can as long as Frank
Speaker 1: says it's okay, because Frank called the shots. For all
Speaker 1: those guys, I do remember that. Um So, Frank would
Speaker 1: one more take, and this could be like take twelve
Speaker 1: or fifteen or twenty, depending on like how how much
Speaker 1: how much the person was feeling at The singer was
Speaker 1: feeling it at the time and would be happy to
Speaker 1: hang around the studio whatever was keeping the singer there
Speaker 1: at the studio. As long as that was around the singer,
Speaker 1: the singer was happy to give it one more try,
Speaker 1: one more try, right, drugs maybe, um or if they
Speaker 1: had like a really good candy bowl, who knows, I
Speaker 1: gotta stay for the skittles. Um So. The editor then
Speaker 1: or the music producer would then take all of these
Speaker 1: different tracks and would go through and I can't imagine
Speaker 1: how awful this would be. Take the best part of
Speaker 1: this track and edit it together with the best part
Speaker 1: of that track, and like we're talking like pre digital air,
Speaker 1: so like they're spicing together tape from what I understand,
Speaker 1: right to get the best possible complete take piece together
Speaker 1: from many different takes. Right, So Okay, that's that's what
Speaker 1: they did. All of a sudden, there's this new software
Speaker 1: that just runs through a take and says, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I see what note or what key the singers singing in,
Speaker 1: But this this particular notes just a little out, so
Speaker 1: I'm going to nudge it into the key that the
Speaker 1: singer was going for. And now, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: one take is all it takes. Yeah. I mean what
Speaker 1: it did was it cut down on studio time, which
Speaker 1: is super expensive, which was very appealing because now you
Speaker 1: could churn out songs that are more rapid rate and
Speaker 1: a cheaper rate. And uh, it was it was a
Speaker 1: little sort of a secret tool that they didn't intend
Speaker 1: to like get out to the public. I don't think
Speaker 1: they wanted everyone to know this stuff. No, it was
Speaker 1: meant for professionals. Yeah, And basically it was just it
Speaker 1: was the musical audio equivalent of cosmetics. Yeah. Doctor. It
Speaker 1: was invented by Dr Harold Andy Hilda Brand, and he
Speaker 1: likened it to make up and the New Yorker likened
Speaker 1: it to um, like getting rid of a red eye
Speaker 1: and a photograph. It was just you use it just
Speaker 1: enough so that you can't tell it's there, but it
Speaker 1: makes for a more pleasant um overall composition. Right, what
Speaker 1: Share had done, or what shares producers had done, is
Speaker 1: take this thing and used it to the nth degree. Yes,
Speaker 1: supposedly it was just a joke, and Share was like,
Speaker 1: I love that, but that's like I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's an urban legend, ear if that's fact. Well, from
Speaker 1: what I read that her producer, she was she wanted like, um,
Speaker 1: she had heard like some telephone effect that she was
Speaker 1: interested in using, like she wanted something and I guess
Speaker 1: the producer had stumbled upon that and UM played it
Speaker 1: for but it was like you're not gonna like this,
Speaker 1: but listen to this weirdness and she was like that
Speaker 1: I want that. Nice, that's what I read. Well, I
Speaker 1: think that it's due to her giving it the green light.
Speaker 1: Then that was truly like uh, foresight, like a masterful
Speaker 1: move by Share. You know, well, Share has a lot
Speaker 1: of ForSight. You know, they say, don't don't doubt Share
Speaker 1: and Share has a lot of foresight. Never bet against Share. Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: so when you did make that decision, it changed, like
Speaker 1: you said, it changed everything. And well, well, I I
Speaker 1: we can't talk enough about this, but we're going to
Speaker 1: take a break and then come back and talk more
Speaker 1: about it right after this, all right, josh, Uh. What
Speaker 1: I found most interesting about this while researching what UM
Speaker 1: was what Andy Hildebrand did before he did this. He
Speaker 1: was a musician. He was played flute professionally since he
Speaker 1: was a young teenager. Even went to University of Illinois
Speaker 1: go Fighting a Line I on a music scholarship. Yet
Speaker 1: he chose to work for Exxon Mobile for seventeen years
Speaker 1: looking for oil. Yeah, the two weren't too terribly far apart, right, well,
Speaker 1: as we will find out. So he's a professional floutist,
Speaker 1: classically trained flout is a good one from what I understand,
Speaker 1: flouting his flute, yes, um. And he went to college
Speaker 1: to get an electrical engineering degree, I think. And basically
Speaker 1: when when he went to work for the oil companies,
Speaker 1: it was an oil exploration and he figured out a
Speaker 1: programmer he designed to software UM that when you set
Speaker 1: off an explosive charge underground, it measured the pitch of
Speaker 1: stuff of the sound waves that that were created. Right,
Speaker 1: So as they traveled through rock, different types of rock,
Speaker 1: just the pitch basically, and this software like analyzed the
Speaker 1: pitch that was coming through and could create a subsurface
Speaker 1: map of the rock below, and oil companies have long
Speaker 1: known that this type of rock is associated with oil,
Speaker 1: and this type of rock is not maybe a'll financial
Speaker 1: guess and this type of rock. So with this guy
Speaker 1: creating an audio visual map of the subsurface area, oil
Speaker 1: companies no longer had to just drill and drill and
Speaker 1: hope that they found um oil. He would say, this
Speaker 1: is a pretty pretty great place to drill because this
Speaker 1: kind of rock is there. That's right. It's called auto correlation.
Speaker 1: And it saved Exxon a lot of money and he
Speaker 1: somehow made a lot of money. I thought it was
Speaker 1: gonna be one of those things where like XN was
Speaker 1: just like thanks, you work for us, you wint here's
Speaker 1: yours a year. But apparently he UM earned enough money
Speaker 1: to retire by the age of forty thanks to this
Speaker 1: innovation and UM in the early he got out of
Speaker 1: the oil business and found it like it's just a
Speaker 1: popularity content. Yeah. Uh. He founded UH in Terrorists Audio
Speaker 1: Technologies and UH kind of near Silicon Valley in Scott's Valley, California.
Speaker 1: And I think still they only have about ten employees.
Speaker 1: I think it's a pretty small operation. It's all centered
Speaker 1: around him and his ideas, and he is the main
Speaker 1: inventor um. One of the first things he invented was
Speaker 1: something called Infinity, which is a program that where you
Speaker 1: could loop samples um over and over and over, like seamlessly.
Speaker 1: Apparently that was a necessary thing. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, think about it. We're talking like early nineties.
Speaker 1: That was like the oh eight acid house revolution. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I just didn't realize. I guess he made it easier,
Speaker 1: probably is my guess. Yes, I think he enabled it.
Speaker 1: He enabled technos the impression I have, Oh yeah, interesting
Speaker 1: looping samples together seamlessly. Well, but you could already do that.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is is he clearly found a way
Speaker 1: to do it better and more efficiently. He didn't invent looping, No,
Speaker 1: he made it better, Yeah, exactly. Another thing he did
Speaker 1: was invented the microphone modeler. Modeling is a big thing
Speaker 1: in music. You can get um guitar amplifiers that model,
Speaker 1: uh basically means imitate other amps. I have a modeling
Speaker 1: amp which I don't use anymore because it's uh not
Speaker 1: very good, but it models. There's like twelve different classic
Speaker 1: amps models supposedly, but he inventled the modeling microphone, which
Speaker 1: means you could mimic like classic microphones or like a
Speaker 1: harmonica mike and vintage mics like the Elvis Presley that
Speaker 1: cool looking mike. Sure that was on there? Oh? Is
Speaker 1: that the silver kind of rounded rectangular one. Noel's got
Speaker 1: one on his desk. Yeah, yeah, that's associated with Elvis Presley. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean just the music of that time. But I
Speaker 1: always picture Elvish. Yeah, you know what I mean, I
Speaker 1: can see that. Yeah, have you ever seen his grandson,
Speaker 1: by the way, quick sidebar? No, his name is quick sidebar,
Speaker 1: quick sidebar Pressley. It's weird name, but you know, Lisa
Speaker 1: Marie was his mom, So yeah, um, that was very funny.
Speaker 1: By the way, he uh, just look him up. I
Speaker 1: think what's his name. I can't remember his name. His
Speaker 1: last name is the father's name for Lisa Marie's first husband,
Speaker 1: is who she had him with. Uh yeah, just look
Speaker 1: at Elvis Presley's grandson. It is creepy. Dude looks exactly
Speaker 1: like Elvis at that age, like scary, scary, eerily similar
Speaker 1: that I don't know, doesne that I do know? If
Speaker 1: he sings, he probably use his auto tune probably because
Speaker 1: of singers. Apparently his auto tune its hem even higher
Speaker 1: than that. Really, how about that? Admit it? You know? Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's the thing about auto tune where, um, you deny
Speaker 1: that you use it even though you're totally aware that
Speaker 1: everyone uses it. Um. I read an article where apparently
Speaker 1: this one producer said that he's worked with two artists
Speaker 1: that have haven't used it everyone else has, and it
Speaker 1: was Nico Case and Nellie for Tato. And then apparently
Speaker 1: later after that, Nelly for Tato released a single that
Speaker 1: had tons of auto tune on it. She may be
Speaker 1: the only artist in the world who hasn't used auto tune,
Speaker 1: either subtly or um to the nth degree. Well, that's
Speaker 1: certainly not true. I think there are plenty of indie artists.
Speaker 1: But if you're talking, you should read this Verge article.
Speaker 1: It basically lays it out like, no, everyone uses this
Speaker 1: even if so. Apparently producers don't even necessarily tell the
Speaker 1: band that it's being used right then, because there's a
Speaker 1: live function, so that the monitors or the headphones that um,
Speaker 1: the band is hearing is being run through auto tune,
Speaker 1: so what they're hearing is already corrected, so they think
Speaker 1: they just did a perfect take. Yeah, I'm just wary
Speaker 1: of anytime someone says out of twenty million singers, one
Speaker 1: person doesn't that's just very dubious claim. I don't know,
Speaker 1: we're talking music industry here, especially when a lot of
Speaker 1: people are making their own music in their own homes. Well,
Speaker 1: that's another thing. They're not a part of the pop machine.
Speaker 1: They don't have stats on that, you know. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm just saying that's that sounds like a load
Speaker 1: of garbage to me. I'm sure more than one person
Speaker 1: doesn't just one. Um. So auto tune came about, apparently
Speaker 1: this is the tail because of a dinner that Hilda
Speaker 1: Brand was at. He was having lunch with a sales
Speaker 1: rep and the wife said something funny like, hey, Andy,
Speaker 1: can you once you invent something to make me sing
Speaker 1: in tune? And he went, no, great idea that we
Speaker 1: should have auto tuned, that maybe we could maybe maybe
Speaker 1: it was maybe it just happened. Uh. And so he said,
Speaker 1: you know what, Uh, if I can tell Jed Clampitt
Speaker 1: where the oil is, then I can make you sing
Speaker 1: in tune. And he did, and he did. He created
Speaker 1: auto tune and um we've kind of mentioned how it works. Basically,
Speaker 1: it takes a it takes that take of a singer's song.
Speaker 1: It takes the vocals of the song, and you select
Speaker 1: what key you're singing in, and then auto tune goes
Speaker 1: through and makes this map of this of that audio
Speaker 1: of the vocal track, and it goes through and says
Speaker 1: that this one's a little flat, this one's a little low,
Speaker 1: or whatever, um and it just nudges these things into
Speaker 1: tune into into the key that it's supposed to be in.
Speaker 1: So all all of the notes that the singer hits
Speaker 1: and that take are within the correct key, meaning that
Speaker 1: they all sound great. It's a perfect take, right well, yeah,
Speaker 1: and the the key there is it's in the original
Speaker 1: tone and inflection of the artist, so you can't tell
Speaker 1: it's happening. No. And there's actually if you look, if
Speaker 1: you look at the um uh Auto Tune product demo videos,
Speaker 1: it's amazing. So there's a there's an um an automatic
Speaker 1: version where like it just you select the key and
Speaker 1: like auto tune do its thing, and it does a
Speaker 1: pretty great job. One of the one of the ways
Speaker 1: that it does this is um it adds like millisecond
Speaker 1: pauses in between notes. There's little spaces between notes, which
Speaker 1: gives it a natural feel. Um. There's other selections that
Speaker 1: you can make, like throat length. You can select grow
Speaker 1: how long the singer's throat is uh, and you can
Speaker 1: do that note by note um, so you can make
Speaker 1: the whole thing even more natural. Until basically, what you've
Speaker 1: done is taught auto tune how to simulate a particular
Speaker 1: singers singing style and voice so that when it when
Speaker 1: a us that no, it doesn't within the same exact
Speaker 1: range that the singer would have done had they hit
Speaker 1: it correctly. It's pretty amazing and advanced stuff totally. What
Speaker 1: when when normal people think of auto tune, like you
Speaker 1: and me who are not in the music biz um,
Speaker 1: we we think of this thing that's called the zero function. Yes,
Speaker 1: and you know what, let's take a break and we
Speaker 1: will explain what the zero function is right after this.
Speaker 1: Stop all right, the suspense is kidling me. You're gonna
Speaker 1: kid let's kid alright. Zero function. That was essentially what
Speaker 1: the share effect was, Okay, right, yes, go ahead no
Speaker 1: no, no no go ahead, no, no go ahead. You just
Speaker 1: sat up in your chair like you were about to
Speaker 1: arm kind I've been Do you go ahead? Do you
Speaker 1: talk about it? Well, what auto tune does in the
Speaker 1: in terms of the zero function is it gets rid
Speaker 1: of all of that space and when shares voice changes,
Speaker 1: it's immediate. Yeah, all of those notes go right up
Speaker 1: against each other, and it creates this robotic sounding voice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no like rise, it's there's it's not like a
Speaker 1: what's the word I'm looking for? It's uh. It's not
Speaker 1: like a normal vibrato that you would get because in
Speaker 1: the normal vibrato there's there's pauses, there's space in between
Speaker 1: the notes. With this, it's note note all pressed up
Speaker 1: against each other, compressed way, and that zero function, um
Speaker 1: is what what It takes any spaces out between the
Speaker 1: notes and creates that robot sound. Yeah, because I think
Speaker 1: auto tune has has a range of numbers to make
Speaker 1: it flow more seamlessly. And when they took it all
Speaker 1: the way down to zero, which means there's nothing there,
Speaker 1: it created that weird I act that they were like,
Speaker 1: share your listen to this, it's weird. Yeah, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I like weird. It's great, baby, I hear number one
Speaker 1: hit in my future. No, you gotta wrot. It's great, baby, No,
Speaker 1: that was that was Jack from Will and Grace. Oh
Speaker 1: do you remember when he thought he was talking to
Speaker 1: a share impersonator. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And he's like, no,
Speaker 1: if I could turn back to turn. He was teaching
Speaker 1: her how to say it, sing it correctly. I thoroughly
Speaker 1: enjoyed Will and Grace. It was great. Agreed, All right,
Speaker 1: where are we? Well? You were talking about the share effect, right,
Speaker 1: and that's what it was called again and Tari has
Speaker 1: called this zero function the share effect for many years
Speaker 1: and um and over time, remember her producer just kept
Speaker 1: lying and lying and lying. Over time, other producers independently
Speaker 1: figured out why he had done that. He had used
Speaker 1: the zero function, which is a really obscure tool on
Speaker 1: a software suite that not everybody knew about. Right, So
Speaker 1: it took some some brainpower and some experimentation, but little
Speaker 1: by little some producers figured it out. This one producer
Speaker 1: um did a remix of a j Lo song and
Speaker 1: used it, and he I think was the second person
Speaker 1: to use it, um publicly and uh for a brief time,
Speaker 1: it became known as the Jal effect. Of course, anybody
Speaker 1: who used this without fessing up to it. At first
Speaker 1: in the early two thousands, it was called the whatever effect.
Speaker 1: And there's this producer rapper down in Florida named T Paine,
Speaker 1: and T Paine heard this JL effect. He went on
Speaker 1: a mission to figure out what this was, and he
Speaker 1: finally apparently took him years to figure it out. He
Speaker 1: finally figured out that it was the zero effect on
Speaker 1: this pro tools plug in UM and he started using
Speaker 1: it and just went crazy with it. Like up to
Speaker 1: this point it was used to like tweak or it
Speaker 1: would maybe make UM a track of just a little
Speaker 1: weird over here, something like that. He used it as
Speaker 1: often as he possibly could. Yeah. He basically said the
Speaker 1: zero function and tee pain are one and the same. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it became known as the tea pain effect. Really
Speaker 1: because when people asked him how he did it, guess
Speaker 1: what he said folder did he really? Yes, Yes he did.
Speaker 1: And for years he managed to make a mint because
Speaker 1: the whole thing was in hip hop or in pop.
Speaker 1: If you wanted this tea pain effect, te pain needed
Speaker 1: to console at least if not produce your record. That
Speaker 1: was like ten years after the Share effect. People not
Speaker 1: know that I I he managed to pull it off
Speaker 1: for years and years and years. Good for tea Pain
Speaker 1: is what I say? Yes, you know, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: he apparently was like, um, I guess on a plane ride.
Speaker 1: Usher was the same plane and asked to speak to him,
Speaker 1: and she was like, I've got to get something off
Speaker 1: my chest. You really screwed up music like big time
Speaker 1: well S. Pain was like, I've made a bunch of
Speaker 1: money doing this and people seem to like it, so
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna stop. Hildebrand has been vilified by many,
Speaker 1: and he said, you know what, I just make the car.
Speaker 1: I don't drive it down the wrong side of the road. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's a great quote because a lot of people hate
Speaker 1: auto tune and things. That's the worst thing that happened
Speaker 1: to music. A lot of people like it and say,
Speaker 1: when you use it for what it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: used for, it can really help out. Because you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like everyone uses it all the time. I'm
Speaker 1: sure some people need it way more than others. Well,
Speaker 1: even if you're using it as a like cosmetic touch,
Speaker 1: like kill the brand originally designed it for a lot
Speaker 1: of people say no, we shouldn't even be doing that,
Speaker 1: because if you go back and listen to things like
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan or The Beach Boards or um, just a
Speaker 1: lot of these original artists that didn't use these kind
Speaker 1: of effects on their voice. Um, when they sang and
Speaker 1: their recordings made it through the studio, there were still
Speaker 1: flat notes here there, but it was their music, it
Speaker 1: was their voice, it was their vocals in these tracks,
Speaker 1: and everyone came to know and love them. But now,
Speaker 1: because everything is auto tuned perfectly, even the stuff that
Speaker 1: you don't you can't hear it's auto tune because they're
Speaker 1: not using zero function, but just the fact that it's
Speaker 1: been running through the auto tune, this stuff sounds really
Speaker 1: rough by comparison. So a lot of people are like
Speaker 1: auto tune has ruined music. It ruined music that people
Speaker 1: love for decades because now by comparison it seems rough. Well.
Speaker 1: But it also, like a good ear can tell if
Speaker 1: something's auto tune, it has this weird tin equality that, um,
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound natural. So I think it they will
Speaker 1: be blowback and a and a reversion back to older methods. Okay,
Speaker 1: I bet you. Jack White has an auto tune that's
Speaker 1: the most purest of pure guys. No, he uses all
Speaker 1: sorts of weird vocal effects on his stuff. No, but
Speaker 1: as far as like I bet he has ask him,
Speaker 1: he wouldn't admit it. Apparently that's part for the course. Um,
Speaker 1: so te Pain. If we can get back to the
Speaker 1: history of this drink, so te Pain. Right, he's huge,
Speaker 1: like he's just everything he drops is just blowing up
Speaker 1: all over the place. He's getting invited to consult and
Speaker 1: produce on uh Kanye's album, which ultimately had every track
Speaker 1: had auto tune on it by the time Tea Pain
Speaker 1: got done with that, right. Um, have you heard his
Speaker 1: Queen Bohemian raapsody live? No? Is it good? Oh? No,
Speaker 1: oh no, it's there's a video that someone spliced of
Speaker 1: him and he and Freddie Mercury. It's one of the
Speaker 1: worst things I've ever heard on the stage. I've got
Speaker 1: to check it out. It's terrible. Okay, Um, I gotta
Speaker 1: see that. It's good. So um the tea Pain effect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if you wanted this effect, you had to have
Speaker 1: t pain. Well Snoop Dogg says that's enough of that finally,
Speaker 1: and he releases something called Sensual Seduction, and it's one
Speaker 1: of the better rap videos you've ever seen. It's pretty good.
Speaker 1: There's a star wipe in it, so you know I
Speaker 1: love it. Um. So Snoop releases this using the te
Speaker 1: Pain effect to great degree, but he didn't consult with
Speaker 1: T Pain. T Paint had nothing to do with this record.
Speaker 1: So Snoop kind of opened the floodgates saying, if you
Speaker 1: guys want to use this, go use it. But what's
Speaker 1: interesting if you watch that video when Snoop is doing
Speaker 1: like the the t pain effect of the auto tune stuff,
Speaker 1: he's actually got a tube going to a synthesizer to
Speaker 1: make it look like he's using a vocoder. Interesting that
Speaker 1: weird like in his video. But anyway, he sure that
Speaker 1: wasn't a marijuana smoking divide. It may have been, it
Speaker 1: may have been the other thing about it, um, but
Speaker 1: Snoop changed everything in in that he took tea Pain
Speaker 1: now to the equation and really open the floodgates for
Speaker 1: anybody and everybody to use this stuff. Simultaneously, jay Z
Speaker 1: was trying to close those floodgates and push all of
Speaker 1: it back in. Yeah, I think jay Z um uh
Speaker 1: it clearly jumped the shark. At a certain point. You
Speaker 1: know when major ad brands are making ads using the
Speaker 1: latest and greatest. That it's years late, first of all,
Speaker 1: and that means that has definitely jumped the shark. And
Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, uh Windy's had a Frosty Posse
Speaker 1: commercial where a gang of office workers built it out
Speaker 1: auto tuned rhymes while searching for Frosty's. I don't remember
Speaker 1: that add do you? I know? But I went and
Speaker 1: watched it. Of course. How is it pretty great? It's
Speaker 1: what you think it is pretty great. It's awesome. Okay, no,
Speaker 1: it's terrible. And jay Z apparently saw this and was enraged,
Speaker 1: and so he wrote a song called d O a
Speaker 1: Death of auto Tune. I know we're facing a recession,
Speaker 1: but the music y'all making gonna make it the great depression.
Speaker 1: Get back to wrap ut painting too much, that's calling
Speaker 1: that's calling someone out ye hard. Yeah, but other auto tune,
Speaker 1: um auto tune. The news was a big YouTube pit.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, man, that um the bed intruder song. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's um. Let's play a clip from that From two
Speaker 1: thousand and ten. It was a local news footage from Huntsville, Alabama,
Speaker 1: of Antoine Dodson delivering human being. Yeah, about a neighborhood
Speaker 1: intruder and someone auto tune that the Gregory Brothers did.
Speaker 1: That's right, let's hear that real quick start. You are
Speaker 1: really go for the man got away, leaving behind the evidence.
Speaker 1: I was okay by some sold don't sold, don't so
Speaker 1: don't song be climbing a windows? He snatching up people
Speaker 1: up trying to write? Have you listened recently? Now? It's
Speaker 1: pretty great? Yeah? Yeah, but again that was in two
Speaker 1: thousand ten, and I think that even kind of had
Speaker 1: a pretty short shelf life. Unless they're still doing it,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Well, what do you say, The Gregory Brothers,
Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Soul band. Yeah, they started out doing auto
Speaker 1: tune the news and they would take the news and
Speaker 1: just auto tune it and turn it and like just
Speaker 1: produce it overproduce it um. And they did that with
Speaker 1: the Bed and Shooter song, and that actually became the
Speaker 1: number one video on YouTube of all of two thousand ten.
Speaker 1: I look the original the original video has a hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty eight million views right now. Yeah, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: pretty impressive stuff. At at the same point, like now,
Speaker 1: auto tune has become a parody of itself. It's it's
Speaker 1: being used in ads, here's this progression. Something starts out,
Speaker 1: someone uses it artistically, someone comes along and overuses it,
Speaker 1: then everybody starts to overuse it. Then Wendy's makes a
Speaker 1: commercial using it. Newsweek finally gets around to writing an
Speaker 1: article about it, and then years after we record a
Speaker 1: podcast on it, and then the thing finally dies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then fifteen or twenty years after that it becomes
Speaker 1: hip again. Yes, you know, that's the progression. So the
Speaker 1: point that we're at though, now, Chuck, it's not so
Speaker 1: cut and dry, man. It's not as cut and dry
Speaker 1: as jay Z would like to have you think. Because
Speaker 1: he came out with this death of auto tune track
Speaker 1: in like two thousand nine. Auto tune is still around
Speaker 1: very much. And now it's getting the point where if
Speaker 1: like um the Verge and I can't remember the other
Speaker 1: article I read, they're both on this podcast page. If
Speaker 1: they're to be believed, they're credible sources, and they certainly
Speaker 1: seemed like it from these articles. There's a there's this
Speaker 1: growing question of um, is auto tune here to stay?
Speaker 1: People are starting to compare it to the initial reaction
Speaker 1: that people had to the electric guitar. It was a
Speaker 1: lot different from the original guitar, and people it took
Speaker 1: a lot of getting used to, or like when Bob
Speaker 1: Dylan went electric, a lot of people didn't like that,
Speaker 1: but then look at what happened now with the electric guitar.
Speaker 1: A lot of people tried different stuff with it and
Speaker 1: it became a standard. Some people are wondering if auto
Speaker 1: tune is going to fulfill the same destiny. I think
Speaker 1: most people are hoping that it does not. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean sweetening vocals is nothing new, Like reverb is
Speaker 1: a tried and true thing for years and embraced. H
Speaker 1: does that sweetened vocals? I thought that was always used
Speaker 1: to like make it weird. Now it's it's sort of
Speaker 1: like it gives it an echo, a like you're singing
Speaker 1: in a big empty church hall or something. But it
Speaker 1: makes it sweetens it. It doesn't like correct anything, but
Speaker 1: when I say sweetens it, it just makes it sound
Speaker 1: a little better. Reverbs a great tool, right. The point
Speaker 1: is as artificial. Yeah, it's not natural. Yeah, they it's
Speaker 1: they tried to replicate like singing in a big empty
Speaker 1: echo e hallway, uh, with an effect and it worked, right.
Speaker 1: And another argument in favor of auto tune that I've
Speaker 1: seen is simply taking a human voice and recording it
Speaker 1: automatically makes it artificial, like if they're not there in
Speaker 1: the room with you singing to you at that moment.
Speaker 1: Anything else is artificial, So what's the problem. So just
Speaker 1: to let people know, I put out to text during
Speaker 1: the episode to musician friends Jack White, No. I texted
Speaker 1: Lucy Wayne Wright our buddy Jerry from our TV show.
Speaker 1: She's not answered, which means she's used auto tune. Kidding
Speaker 1: and our buddy Joey c Are from the Henry Clay People,
Speaker 1: formerly of Henry Clay People, now with fakers, And he said,
Speaker 1: I think there were a few harmonized us and as
Speaker 1: on one of our old records where we did some
Speaker 1: pitch correcting, but that's it, I think, maybe so definitely
Speaker 1: he's probably be mad that I said that. Thank you
Speaker 1: for being forth right, Joey. Yeah, good guy. Are you
Speaker 1: got anything else about autit Yeah? Just a really quick um.
Speaker 1: This is from a great website. Tin artists that are
Speaker 1: essentially computer programs. They just have the most auto tuned people.
Speaker 1: They have t Pain, Kesha, Chris Brown, Maroon Five, Black
Speaker 1: Eyed Peas, Deaft Punk, Paris Hilton, who I forgot actually
Speaker 1: had a song the cast of Glee Katy Perry, and
Speaker 1: number one was owl City who. I don't even know
Speaker 1: what that is. There's a huge outcry apparently among Glee
Speaker 1: fans for Glee to stop using so much auto tune.
Speaker 1: I think the deal is. They're like, well, these are actors,
Speaker 1: like yeah, And there's another there's a big scandal with
Speaker 1: u K's got talent or something weird like that, um
Speaker 1: where they were using a lot of auto tune for
Speaker 1: the auditions. It was like comeme on. Well anyway, man,
Speaker 1: that's not a very surprising list. So this has been
Speaker 1: grumpy old men. I don't feel like we've been grumpy yet.
Speaker 1: We haven't like, condemned it out right. No, Nico Casey,
Speaker 1: she condemns it out right. Yeah, Emily, I have an
Speaker 1: agreement about Nico case but we could both marry her, okay,
Speaker 1: if she was ever available to us. She's right behind you.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Uh so we have a very well
Speaker 1: done finish up your a deal. Sorry, I just jumped
Speaker 1: the gonka. Thank you, Ah, you don't have anything else
Speaker 1: about No, I was just teasing. We have a special
Speaker 1: listener mail with guests. Well, hold on let me finish first. Okay, okay, Well,
Speaker 1: since Chuck doesn't have anything, it's the end. And if
Speaker 1: you want to know more about auto tune, you can
Speaker 1: type those words into the search bar at how stuff
Speaker 1: works dot com. And this article, I have to say,
Speaker 1: by the way, was the most definitive article about auto
Speaker 1: tune on the internet. How about that. It's a good one.
Speaker 1: Uh So you can go look that up. And since
Speaker 1: I said definitive, it's time for listener mail, and it's
Speaker 1: a special one. Like Chuck said, that's right. Today we
Speaker 1: um got a joint listener mail to ourselves into Holly
Speaker 1: and Tracy from stuff you missed in history class. Yep,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna bring them in right, Yeah, we're gonna
Speaker 1: read the email and we're going to talk about its implications.
Speaker 1: Let's start now. So, without further ado, we actually have
Speaker 1: Holly and Tracy of stuff you missed in history class
Speaker 1: with us. Hi and Tracy, we have actually not with us,
Speaker 1: she's with us in spirit and voice from Boston. I
Speaker 1: know it's pretty it's pretty interesting when it comes in
Speaker 1: through your headphones, but the other person somewhere else, it's
Speaker 1: kind of awesome. And this is how you guys do
Speaker 1: the show now, right? Yes, we also have like an
Speaker 1: online you know, we have a Google hangout where we
Speaker 1: both are so we can see each other as well.
Speaker 1: We should have done that Tracy in here with her
Speaker 1: little video image or like um hologram of or they'd
Speaker 1: be pretty cool too. That's true, all right. So I
Speaker 1: think the first thing I should do. You have a
Speaker 1: picture of me like our old boss. Oh well, I
Speaker 1: do have a picture of you. I have the all
Speaker 1: its side that he gave out. So, um, I think
Speaker 1: the first thing we should do is just read. I'll
Speaker 1: read the email here and then we will discuss like adults.
Speaker 1: How about that? Uh So, like I said, already set
Speaker 1: it up that we both got an email from a
Speaker 1: listener and she says the following, and this is from
Speaker 1: Amanda Lions. Hey, guys and gals. She didn't say that,
Speaker 1: of course, I just did. Well, you should read it, okay, Josh, Chuckers,
Speaker 1: Holly and Tracy, and of course a hello to Jerry
Speaker 1: and Nol. Yeah. I'm a social worker from Portland, Oregon
Speaker 1: with a passion for human equity and respect. One of
Speaker 1: the original members of the s Y s K Army
Speaker 1: and a more recent listener to missed in History. I
Speaker 1: binged for about five months before I got all caught up.
Speaker 1: So how about that. I'm concerned about something I've heard
Speaker 1: a few times on the History podcast, and I was
Speaker 1: wondering if you guys would be willing to get together
Speaker 1: we are and look into something to fulfill my curiosity.
Speaker 1: When Josh and Chuck received corrections, they thank people for
Speaker 1: being nice and frequently ask people not to be jerks
Speaker 1: when correcting them. When Holly and Tracy talk about corrections
Speaker 1: they receive, they ask people to be nice and have
Speaker 1: referred to corrections on several occasions as hate mail. My
Speaker 1: concern is that listeners may be more disrespectful Holly and
Speaker 1: Tracy because they are women, and even if listeners are
Speaker 1: rude to Josh and Chuck, they may rein it in
Speaker 1: when making corrections because there are men. Could be completely
Speaker 1: off base. But if I'm right, I feel like the
Speaker 1: discrepancy should be addressed on the podcast to raise awareness
Speaker 1: about how people treat men and women differently, and even
Speaker 1: to address people's tendency to feel protected by the anonymity
Speaker 1: of the Internet and say things online they wouldn't say
Speaker 1: to someone's face and Uh so, Manda, we did talk
Speaker 1: about it via email, and now we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about it like regular human folks. And Tracy really has
Speaker 1: the wealth of information because of her job and what
Speaker 1: you know she's been responsible for in the past. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds serious. Yeah. I was part of the management
Speaker 1: with a website for several years before I started actually
Speaker 1: being on a podcast, and for a chunk of that time,
Speaker 1: most of the podcasters reported to me. So even though
Speaker 1: I wasn't managing the podcast program, I was sort of
Speaker 1: keeping tabs on the iTunes reviews for everybody. And there
Speaker 1: was a definite, definite trend in that the podcast that
Speaker 1: had women on them got disproportionately more vicious comments about
Speaker 1: what their voices sounded like versus the podcast with men
Speaker 1: on them, which got less of that. So this is
Speaker 1: news to me. Misogyny on the internet. I had not
Speaker 1: I wasn't aware that that was the thing that was
Speaker 1: a beautiful blind spot of all time. No, I can imagine,
Speaker 1: And I know Tracy, you've like pointed some of these
Speaker 1: out before. Um, for us, it's it's like, yeah, we'll
Speaker 1: get hate mail every once in a while. Um, but
Speaker 1: it's kind of easy to dismiss because even if it
Speaker 1: is to erect it at us, it's not necessarily directed
Speaker 1: at our gender or whatever it's or even if it
Speaker 1: is personal, it's it's dumb. It's just it's just dumb stuff.
Speaker 1: It's easy to not take personally, even when it's meant
Speaker 1: to be personal. But um, that's me speaking. Is like
Speaker 1: a white male age eighteen to forty nine, you know,
Speaker 1: so I can imagine that like when someone attacks you
Speaker 1: just just based on your gender, or even worse, if
Speaker 1: they're coming after you and they don't even realize that
Speaker 1: they're being driven by this, um, this disdain for your gender,
Speaker 1: that has to make it a lot harder to just
Speaker 1: just dismiss. Yeah, well, yeah, how you can go. I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, for me, I mean I am lucky
Speaker 1: and that I really give very few damns about what
Speaker 1: most people think, like unless you're sitting in my lap
Speaker 1: or paying my paycheck, Like it's great if you like me,
Speaker 1: but if you don't, that's cool too. Like everybody do
Speaker 1: your thing. But eventually, like the landslide builds up and
Speaker 1: it's not it's not so much that I'm heartbroken or traumatized,
Speaker 1: but it just wears you down after a while where
Speaker 1: you're like, why am I doing this just to get
Speaker 1: more of this crap? Yeah? Well, and we definitely have,
Speaker 1: like we have been called slurs based on our gender before,
Speaker 1: We have been called the C word over the pipe une. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and then the I told you about that when we
Speaker 1: were discussing the email in our email conversation, I told
Speaker 1: you about the person who wrote to us and said
Speaker 1: they didn't understand how I could be in the same
Speaker 1: room with Holly without strangling her. Like, that's the kind
Speaker 1: of stuff that people will write to us and be
Speaker 1: really awful, But we do get a whole lot of
Speaker 1: them that I don't think people are consciously being misogynistic,
Speaker 1: but they're talking to us and about us in a
Speaker 1: very gendered way. So people tell us that we sound
Speaker 1: shrill or that we sound bossy, and those aren't words
Speaker 1: that people would use to describe men most of the time.
Speaker 1: Most of their um and all of the articles that
Speaker 1: had come out lately of out, especially vocal fry and
Speaker 1: other things that people criticize about women's voices that they
Speaker 1: don't generally criticize about men's voices. Every single time I
Speaker 1: read it, and I'm like, I could have written that
Speaker 1: about my job and my experience being a woman talking
Speaker 1: on the internet. So which one, Um, which one hits
Speaker 1: home the most? Like one that's a just a direct
Speaker 1: personal attack are the ones that or the person is
Speaker 1: just being unconsciously misogynistic, which to me would seem more entrenched. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to me, the second one is worse. And it's especially
Speaker 1: worse because a lot of the implicitly gendered criticism that
Speaker 1: we get is also from women. The hardest part, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the hardest part for me to deal with. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when they're real specific, for example, like the person who
Speaker 1: wants me to be strangled. Um, at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I'm like, he's working through his own stuff,
Speaker 1: Like I have really have very little to do with this.
Speaker 1: So I may have been the trigger the you know,
Speaker 1: cause this little outrage bomb, but really it has very
Speaker 1: little to do with me that I think almost of
Speaker 1: the time that is the case. These are people who
Speaker 1: have their own gripes in life and are probably angry,
Speaker 1: unhappy people. Yes, But then, as Tracy said, when you
Speaker 1: get those ones that are like they they're not even
Speaker 1: conscious of how it's playing out, you realize how much
Speaker 1: it is a bigger, sort of systemic social problem because
Speaker 1: most of those people are not evil, they don't intend
Speaker 1: to be misogynistic. They're not conscious that they're separating the
Speaker 1: two genders and judging them differently on different criteria. So yeah,
Speaker 1: those are, as Tracy said, a little more disturbing because
Speaker 1: you realize that it's kind of like the silent creep
Speaker 1: that underlays everything. Well, we do get a lot of
Speaker 1: emails that are great from people who are great, and
Speaker 1: the majority of the email that we get is great,
Speaker 1: so we like, I don't want to make it sound
Speaker 1: like every person who writes to us is awful. Um,
Speaker 1: And we talked about corrections on the episode a lot
Speaker 1: of times from people who write it in and everything
Speaker 1: is fine and everything is very respectful. So to me,
Speaker 1: a correction is you said this person died in nineteen
Speaker 1: and eighteen, but really it was nineteen seven. That's a correction,
Speaker 1: and that's fine. But then we'll also get ones that
Speaker 1: are like, I can't believe you didn't even bother to
Speaker 1: look this up. You completely butchered it. I don't know
Speaker 1: why you don't even put more thought into what you're doing,
Speaker 1: because it's really important that you represent yourselves as well,
Speaker 1: And that's when I'm like, that's hate mail. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: get those. Yeah, we get a lot of those, but
Speaker 1: I never feel like those are like, uh, have anything
Speaker 1: to do with my gender? Yeah, in those cases absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean we get the same exact emails where it's
Speaker 1: just like you, you guys are total idiots, like how
Speaker 1: how could you drop the ball this badly? And it's
Speaker 1: like we basically said exactly what you're saying, We just
Speaker 1: said it slightly differently. It definitely doesn't warrant this kind
Speaker 1: of reaction, you know, Um yeah, I I why do
Speaker 1: you think there is a gender or bias or a gender?
Speaker 1: Why is it worse for you guys being women? Do
Speaker 1: you think not just in common history of the world,
Speaker 1: but I know, like how how long do you have?
Speaker 1: But I mean, like even even beyond comments like why
Speaker 1: is the internet so geared towards hating women? I mean,
Speaker 1: what's what's the deal with that? Do you guys? Is
Speaker 1: there is there a general understanding or idea behind it
Speaker 1: lonely angry men? Is my guess? Well? I think it's
Speaker 1: it's super complex, right, There's no one simple answer. Like
Speaker 1: some of it is that we have reached an age
Speaker 1: where the disparity in terms of UH gender equality has
Speaker 1: shrunk at the same time that a lot of people
Speaker 1: have this outlet readily available to them. So there's progress
Speaker 1: being made, but there are also the people who are
Speaker 1: still kicking and screaming as they get dragged into a
Speaker 1: future they're not comfortable with. But then there's also just
Speaker 1: the thing that again I don't think people are even
Speaker 1: conscious of it where it is new for many people,
Speaker 1: and even people that are younger and have maybe grown
Speaker 1: up in a more kind of old school traditional environment,
Speaker 1: be at household or community, where they're not even conscious
Speaker 1: of why they're more upset at women. There's just something
Speaker 1: about women, you know, sharing knowledge or being assertive or
Speaker 1: being confident that just rankles them. And they don't even
Speaker 1: register that it's because it's a woman. They just know
Speaker 1: there's something about that person I hate and it's something
Speaker 1: they're just not used to and they haven't kind of
Speaker 1: made the the mental accustomization to. Oh. Sometimes people that
Speaker 1: aren't dudes have stuff to say as well. Do you
Speaker 1: think the same experiences extrapolatable under race as well as gender,
Speaker 1: and well, I mean I know it is, but I
Speaker 1: mean is it almost like a step for step do
Speaker 1: you think I think it's probably pretty similar models. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: speaking like as the ass a white person in a
Speaker 1: room of white people who are on the phone right now.
Speaker 1: The worst days I have ever had managing our Facebook page,
Speaker 1: our days when we talk about something that has to
Speaker 1: do with systemic racism and we'll we'll get a flood
Speaker 1: of similarly implicitly racist comments from people who really don't
Speaker 1: know that the view that they just put out there
Speaker 1: is racist. Like, that's sort of the same thing. Like
Speaker 1: a lot of people do things that are misogynists, not
Speaker 1: really consciously being misogynist. That just it comes out and
Speaker 1: they're not consciously aware of it, and it's we see
Speaker 1: the same thing on our Facebook posts in subjects that
Speaker 1: are related to race really pretty often. So at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, when you guys get a bunch
Speaker 1: of these, say, on just a particularly bad day, what
Speaker 1: what do you do? I mean, do you battle this?
Speaker 1: Do you just brush it off and be like, these
Speaker 1: guys are idiots and whether they like it or not,
Speaker 1: they are going to be dragged into the future against
Speaker 1: their will. Uh, you know, what do you do a
Speaker 1: combination of both? Or do you look at your status
Speaker 1: is a perennial top twenty podcast and say, clearly, who
Speaker 1: cares what they say? Because we're really good at what
Speaker 1: we do, because we're very successful. I do a combination
Speaker 1: of things. I have kind of a library of links
Speaker 1: about vocal fry and whatever. Anyone writes directly to us
Speaker 1: to complain about vocal fry, I kind of send them, hey,
Speaker 1: why don't you listen to this? Uh this American Life
Speaker 1: segment all about vocal fry in which Ira Glass has
Speaker 1: vocal fry the entire segment, but nobody complains at him
Speaker 1: about it. Um. So I like I specifically will address that.
Speaker 1: I will specifically address things that people say on our
Speaker 1: Facebook page in public, because I feel like our role
Speaker 1: as a podcast about history does not include allowing people
Speaker 1: free rein to be racist in public and have that
Speaker 1: not be challenge. Um. But when it comes to the
Speaker 1: like the email that Holly and I got that was
Speaker 1: that was so bad pretty recently, that was the person
Speaker 1: who was basically advocating me murdering Holly. Um, I was
Speaker 1: actually traveling. I went down to the hotel bar and
Speaker 1: how to drink there? You got a book and tried
Speaker 1: to chill Yeah, I tried and chill out about it,
Speaker 1: booze everything. Well, um, thank you both for addressing this.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry we didn't solve this problem here in this this.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having us on the show. Of course. Um,
Speaker 1: if anyone out there and stuff you should know Land
Speaker 1: has not checked out stuff you missed in history class,
Speaker 1: you definitely should because it is super awesome and as
Speaker 1: are both of you. And I don't want to strangle you,
Speaker 1: but I want to hug your necks. Nope, you've got
Speaker 1: to have it. And now she don't move no more. Nope.
Speaker 1: But thanks for coming in. And uh, we should do
Speaker 1: this more often, you know, we should. We should have
Speaker 1: a whole show where we just get together and do
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