1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast, George 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: and Ari back with doctor Ken Hanson, a scholar of 4 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: Hebrew language and literature and the history of the Jewish 5 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: people from ancient times through the Holocaust and beyond. He 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: is a coordinator and endowed professor of Judaic Studies at 7 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: the University of Central Florida in Orlando, and he is 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: a noted author, including some of his books Dead Sea Squirrels, 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: The Untold Story, James and the Lost Heirs of Jesus, 10 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: The Visionaries, and Whose Holy Land? Doctor Ken, Welcome back, 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: good to be back with you, George, and warm Shalom 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: from the Judaic Studies program at the University of Central Florida. 13 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: And that word shalom could not be more appropriate at 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: a time like this. Of course, people know that it 15 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: means peace, but the underlying root of it means wholeness, 16 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,319 Speaker 1: to be whole, to be filled. And I love this 17 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: idea of intention that everyone should gather in intention at 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: this moment. For Ukraine. I have academic colleagues in Ukraine, 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: by the way, and my wife is currently in Russia, 20 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: so I'm personally involved in this entire situation. Of course, 21 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: we're aware of the horror of what's going on, but 22 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: we need to hold that intention. And there's a wonderful 23 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: Hebrew word called kavana that means intention or intentionality. And 24 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: the Jewish idea is that when we pray, it must 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: be done with this kavanah, with this holy intention, that 26 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: every word should mean something. And if I may, I 27 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: just want to share a brief snippet of a Hebrew prayer. 28 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: It's translated to English that's just been published by an 29 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: Orthodox rabbi, and part of it reads, may all evil 30 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: disiplate dissipate like smoke. And it's pointed out that the 31 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: Hebrew word for evil is russhah, russhah, And it sounds 32 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: a bit like Russia, doesn't it. Yeah, it does, not 33 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: not the Russian people, but but this horrible army, this russhah. 34 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,119 Speaker 1: May it dissipate like smoke for the removal of tyranny 35 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 1: ushers in the overall reign of God, peace for all amen, 36 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: the reign of God. That's a very Hebraic idea, and 37 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: it's eschatological as well, about the end of days. But 38 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: we look forward beyond calamity and beyond the catastrophe around us. 39 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: We look forward to a time when peace shall reign 40 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: eternally fantastic. And by the way, I had a great 41 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: time with you in our Beyond Belief taping in Colorado 42 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: a couple of months ago. It was marvelous. Yeah, it 43 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: really was looking forward to that. Ken, let's talk about 44 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 1: this time the Dead Sea Squirrels. And first of all, 45 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 1: before we get into what the state of Israel is 46 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: undertaking right now, tell us about the Dead Sea Scrolls. 47 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: When were they discovered, how far ago and what are they? 48 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: Seventy five years ago was the discovery of the Dead 49 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: Sea Scrolls, and this is really being noted across the nation. 50 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: We've got the cover of Life magazine, now the cover 51 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: of National Geographic. The current issue of National Geographic declares 52 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: Dead Sea Scrolls seventy five years since their historic discovery. 53 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: It really rocked the entire world of biblical scholarship. In 54 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: our entire understanding of those seminal days of King Herod 55 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: the Great and the Roman Empire, and people like John 56 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: the Baptist and of course Jesus of Nazareth. This amazing 57 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: discovery took place by accident, as so many amazing discoveries do. 58 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: There was a young Bedouin shepherd lad by the name 59 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: of Mohammad Eddieb, who was tending his flock of goats 60 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: along the western shore of the Dead Sea, and that's 61 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: the lowest spot on the face of the earth, more 62 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: than twelve hundred feet below sea level, and one of 63 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: his goats went missing. So he started poking his head 64 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: into various nooks and crannies along these chalky marld cliffs 65 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: that rim literally the western shore of the Dead Sea. 66 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: Have been there many times and it's just a moonscape, 67 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: utterly parched and barren and desolate. After a while, Muhammad 68 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: started hurling big stones into some of the abandoned desert caves, 69 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,119 Speaker 1: thinking he would frighten his goat out into the open, 70 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: and instead one of the stones cracked open a pottery 71 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: jar that had been sitting for two thousand years undisturbed 72 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: inside one of those caves. He heard it claying, I 73 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: guess right, but he heard it clay when he threw 74 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: a stone in it. You heard something cracking, something curious inside. 75 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: He hauled himself through the narrow cave entrance and found 76 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: himself staring at a whole row of earthen vessels, pottery vessels, 77 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: leaning against the wall of that cave. I'd like to 78 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: tell people who could not make this up, what a story. 79 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: And inside one of them he found a bundle of 80 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: oddly wrapped parchments covered in a sort of linen cloth. 81 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: He didn't know what they worried, hauled them out, took 82 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: them back to his veterin campsite. He couldn't read them. 83 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: They were in Hebrew, and of course he spoke Arabic, 84 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: so he had stumbled upon the Dead Sea scrolls. Ended 85 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: up taking them to a market place in Bethlam and 86 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: sold a few of them to a shopkeeper there, and 87 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: the shopkeepers sold to an archbishop in Jerusalem, and on 88 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,239 Speaker 1: and on it went. And over the next decade plus, 89 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: it was a mad dash to go back to those 90 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: caves and find out how much more parchment material could 91 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: be out there, because this is a gold nine two 92 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: thousand year old parchments, some entire scrolls, containing the oldest 93 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: copies of the Hebrew Bible known to exist in the world. 94 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: And beyond that, we've got at least one hundred thousand 95 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: fragments of parchments, little pieces, some large sum as big 96 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: as a thumbnail or a postage stamp. One hundred thousand 97 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: fragments that come from about nine hundred of sordid manuscripts 98 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: and texts, most of them unknown to the world until 99 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: nineteen forty seven. Who did the interpretation Kim Pardon? Who 100 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: was able to do the interpretation of the of the parchments, Well, 101 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: anybody who speaks Hebrew, who's lived in Israel, or a 102 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: modern Israeli I've lived there, I know Hebrew, can pick 103 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: up these things and read them. It's it's remarkable with 104 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: no problem. So the Arabs couldn't read them, the Bedouin couldn't. 105 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: Even the archbishop in Jerusalem who bought some of them, 106 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: didn't know what they were, couldn't read them. But in 107 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:08,559 Speaker 1: the end and Israeli professor named Elazar Sukenk bought three 108 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: of them from the shopkeeper in Bethlehem, and he was 109 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: blown away. For the first time someone could actually read 110 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: this material. And this took place in nineteen forty seven, 111 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,559 Speaker 1: right on the eve of the creation of the State 112 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: of Israel by the United Nations, and all of this 113 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: came together in a single night. The UN voted on 114 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: the creation of Israel. And there is Professor Sutanic in 115 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: his apartment in Jerusalem reading and deciphering the first of 116 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: the Dead Sea scrolls. He dropped everything, grabbed his journal 117 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: and noted the date November twenty ninth, nineteen forty seven. 118 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: This is historic. He said, How many jars did the 119 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: little better one find? Well, there was a row of them, 120 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: probably about half a dozen, but they were all empty 121 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: except one except one. And that's where he found the 122 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: first of the major Dead Sea scrolls, more or less intact. 123 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: And then we have other explorations. As I mentioned, it 124 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: was a mad dash. I call it the great Judean 125 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: Desert scroll rush to see who could get back to 126 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: those caves and find more. You had the better one 127 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,239 Speaker 1: on the one hand, and archaeologists on the other trying 128 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: to find more parchment material. And they did over the years, 129 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: and as I mentioned, one hundred thousand fragments. That's a 130 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: lot of materials. Now, the Bedouin did find the most 131 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: important of all of the caves, each one being given 132 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: a number according to its order of discovery. So young 133 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 1: Mohammed found Cave number one, as it came to be called. 134 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: But the better. One found Cave number four sometime later 135 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: that was a treasure trove of parchments and fragments, and 136 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: they just started scooping this stuff into their burlap sacks 137 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: and off they sped across the Judean desert. The government 138 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: of Jordan ultimately paid them roughly two dollars and fifty 139 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: cents per square inch of inscribed parchment that the Bedouin 140 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: would turn into them, and they came flooding in. The 141 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: Bedouins sold these fragments and they ended up in the 142 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: basement of the Rockefeller Museum. What a story is. It 143 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: gets very complicated, but the bottom line is that the 144 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: Israeli started thinking, wait a second, we we got to 145 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: get out to these caves ourselves, because we've got looters 146 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: out there, Bedouin looters going and just pilfering this stuff 147 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: out of the caves, and we archaeologists need to get 148 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: there first. It was worth a fortune, that's why, right, well, 149 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: for the Bedouin, worth a fortune for humanity beyond a fortune, endless, 150 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: that's true, endless? Sure? Sure? Now did the scrolls can 151 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: Did the scrolls echo what we have known the Bible 152 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: to basic be Genesis and stories like that we have 153 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: at least fragments of each and every book of the 154 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: Hebrew Bible except the Book of Esther that's the only 155 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: one that's not represented. Some of them are more or 156 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: less complete. For example, the Book of Isaiah, we have 157 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: the complete Isaiah's Scroll, sixty six chapters long, beginning to end, 158 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: complete and entire. It's long. I've seen it in the 159 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: Israel Museum in Jerusalem. Usually it's kept in a special 160 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: nuclear proof chamber, literally underneath the museum, but occasionally they'll 161 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: bring it up and show it to people, and I've 162 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: seen it. It's just amazing. That's more or less complete. 163 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: But we have fragments of all of the others, and 164 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: they're almost identical with the texts that have come down 165 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: to us today, almost word for word identical. And that 166 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: alone is a stounding because so much of scholarship up 167 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: until then said, well, you know, you can't really trust 168 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: the Biblical text. So much of it was altered down 169 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: through the ages. We don't know what it looked like 170 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: back then, even in the days of Jesus, it might 171 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 1: have been totally different from what it is today. Not 172 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: not just a remarkable history of the preservation, word for 173 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: word of the Hebrew. Now the King James version was 174 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: a translation of the Christian Bible for the Church of 175 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: England back in the sixteen hundreds. Was that still part 176 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: of the Dead Sea Squirrel interpretations? It gets it all 177 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: goes back to that, doesn't it? Well? The King James 178 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: was based upon earlier translations, some of them in Latin. 179 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: Also the Greek version of the Bible called the Septuagint. 180 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: All of that said into the English translation of the 181 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: King James Bible. So of course the dead ceased rolls 182 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: were unknown at that time. Not until nineteen forty seven 183 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: did they pop up. But people asking what's the best 184 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: translation to read well King James. Yeah, it has its 185 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: own idiosyncrasies, but it's also very slavishly accurate to the 186 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: precise word order as much as it can be. It 187 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: doesn't smooth things out so much, and that's why it 188 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: oftentimes reads a little bit awkward to modern English speakers. 189 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: You can't have it both ways in a translation. Either 190 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: you go for smoothness and readability, or you go for exactness. 191 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: And if you go for smoothness you lose exactness. If 192 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: you go for exactness, you lose smoothness, so take your pick. 193 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: But best thing is to read Hebrew. Study Hebrew, George. 194 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: That's amazing. It's one of the greatest discoveries of all times, 195 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: isn't it. Well, certainly from from my perspective as a 196 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: Judaica professor, it is. But it didn't just end. The 197 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: discoveries went on and on and on over the decades, 198 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: and the Israel government in the year twenty seventeen, not 199 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: too long ago, launched a recent effort to go back 200 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: to these caves and see how much more parchment material 201 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: might be out there. Listen to more Coast to Coast 202 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: AM every weeknight at one am Eastern and go to 203 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: Coast to Coast am dot com for more