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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Maddy had just graduated from

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Speaker 1: my school. She was in her first year at Central

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Speaker 1: Washington University. She came home for Thanksgiving break. Mandy left

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Speaker 1: her home on the day after Thanksgiving in nineteen eighty nine.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to get in a run. It was kind

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Speaker 1: of in the late afternoon. She had a daily route

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Speaker 1: that she used to jog that took her down the

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Speaker 1: road that her house was on on Strand Road, down

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Speaker 1: to the Nozack River and back. She went with their dog, Kira,

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Speaker 1: German shepherd. Dog was an older dog, but it was

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Speaker 1: it was very protective of Mandy. I was panicked the

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Speaker 1: minute she didn't get home one time, and then I

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Speaker 1: was doubly panicked a few minutes later when the dog

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Speaker 1: was there and she wasn't any And a missing person

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Speaker 1: call is an ony one one call and it requires

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Speaker 1: so many response and a deputy will go out and

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Speaker 1: talk to the reporting party. In any investigation like this year,

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Speaker 1: now look at boyfriends, anybody that they might have had

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Speaker 1: trouble with. Nandy's boyfriend was cleared after he gave a

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Speaker 1: police statement. How did an eighteen year old girl just

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Speaker 1: starting her life vanish while out running with her dog.

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Speaker 1: How does that happen? We hear the same scenario over

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Speaker 1: and over and over. This girl, Amanda Mandy Stavic, vanishes

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Speaker 1: in broad daylight around two pm November twenty four, jogging

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Speaker 1: with her dog near her own home, Bellingham, Washington State.

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Speaker 1: This is a lovely area, very low crime rate. How

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Speaker 1: did it happen? You were just hearing our friends at

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Speaker 1: ABC twenty twenty. Take a listen to this. Mandy left

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Speaker 1: her home on the day after Thanksgiving in nineteen eighty nine.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to get in a run. It was kind

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Speaker 1: of in the late afternoon. She had a daily route

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Speaker 1: that she used to jog that took her down the

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Speaker 1: road that her house was on on Strand Road, down

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Speaker 1: to the Nooksack River and back. She went with their dog, Kira,

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Speaker 1: German shepherd dog was an older dog, but it was

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Speaker 1: it was very protective of I normally went with her.

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Speaker 1: I rode my bike, she ran on the dog pounded

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Speaker 1: along after us. But that last morning which she disappeared,

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Speaker 1: I didn't go with her because my sister was there,

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Speaker 1: and so I kicked myself when she didn't come back

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Speaker 1: when she should have come back. And then the dog

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Speaker 1: came back without her. I was panicky. First person I

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Speaker 1: called was her boyfriend. Mary was worried that man he

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Speaker 1: was missing. Then I got worried. The dog came home

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Speaker 1: alone after about two hours, and they suspected something terrible

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Speaker 1: had happened to her. It was so unusual that people

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Speaker 1: started looking immediately. You were hearing our friends at ABC

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, and it reminds me so much of the

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Speaker 1: case of Karita Vatranto, the Long Island jogger. The one

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Speaker 1: day her firefighter dad feel Vatranto does not go jogging

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Speaker 1: with her, she ends up dead. I mean, that is

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Speaker 1: a lot of guilt to carry around, And you're hearing

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Speaker 1: the same thing in the case of this teen girl,

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Speaker 1: Mandy Stavic, And that's kind of guilt that follows you

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Speaker 1: and weighs on you the rest of your life. With

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Speaker 1: me right now, an all star paddle. Ashley Wilcot judge

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Speaker 1: and trial lawyer at Ashley Wilcott dot Com. Stephen Lampley

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Speaker 1: detective and this guy knows his way around a courtroom

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Speaker 1: and a crime scene. Author of Outside Your Door on

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Speaker 1: Amazon On George Skiro DNA expert with scales biological laboratory

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Speaker 1: in and boy do we need a DNA expert today.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Catherine Maloney joining me. Renowned Deputy Chief Medical Examiner,

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Speaker 1: Erie County Medical Examiner's Office. Doctor Carla Manley, Psychologists Fear Specialist,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Carla Manley dot Com her latest book, Aging Joyfully.

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Speaker 1: But right now to Joanna Small, reporter with k I

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Speaker 1: R O seven TV. Joanna, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about the area where Mandy Stavit went missing.

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned, Nancy, it was the Bellingham area, but

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Speaker 1: it's actually a little bit northeast of there, in a

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Speaker 1: more rural community. It's Watcomb County, which is the closest

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Speaker 1: county to Canada, and the town that Mandy lived in

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Speaker 1: is called Askne, and it was a very small community.

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Speaker 1: Everyone was very tight knit. In fact, the majority of

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Speaker 1: her friends lived on the scene street she did that

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Speaker 1: was Strand Road. They all went to a small high

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Speaker 1: school called Mount Baker. People at that high school still

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Speaker 1: remember her and there's teachers who are still working there.

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Speaker 1: So Mandy's community was very well aware of her, and

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Speaker 1: she was the other top athlete. She was a very

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Speaker 1: popular girl. She had a lot of family members, so

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Speaker 1: it was no secret that she was well liked and

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Speaker 1: beloved in that community. That is hurting me so much.

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Speaker 1: She is just a little girl out jogging with her

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Speaker 1: dog and a small rural community there on the Canadian border.

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Speaker 1: She goes missing, and it is a free for all.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's looking for Mandy, an extensive search for a missing teenager.

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Speaker 1: Her brother, who was visiting a neighbor, actually saw her

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Speaker 1: run one direction and then a few minutes later run

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Speaker 1: the other way. He was the last person to see her.

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Speaker 1: Every TV station, radios, and even outside the state, national

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Speaker 1: media we're covering it. I was in my first year

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Speaker 1: as a reporter at the Bellingham Herald at the time.

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Speaker 1: I hopped in my car and I drove out and

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Speaker 1: interviewed Mary. She understood that there was a chance that

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Speaker 1: we could help. You're hearing the voice of a Bellingham

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Speaker 1: Herald reporter Carol Herrick at ABC twenty twenty Joanna Small

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Speaker 1: with me ka I r O seven TV. Joanna tell

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Speaker 1: me about the search that ensued and who first called

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Speaker 1: nine one one. Mandy again was a very well liked,

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Speaker 1: very popular girl. Most people knew of her and really

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Speaker 1: cared about her family, So immediately a search was launched

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Speaker 1: a very extensive search because I mentioned if it's an

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Speaker 1: extremely rural area right along the Nooksack River, and it

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Speaker 1: was such a large geographic space, so it required a

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Speaker 1: lot of manpower. There were hundreds, hundreds of people who

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Speaker 1: were out there searching for Mandy, and it was pretty

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Speaker 1: overwhelming detectives. People from Bellingham, people from Seattle, and that's

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Speaker 1: about two and a half hours south of the Acne area.

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Speaker 1: So the search continued for several days. People she'd gone

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Speaker 1: to high school with, people from her past, people who

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Speaker 1: didn't even know her. And again it was extensive. The

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Speaker 1: Nooksack River is a fact moving, very long and wide river,

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Speaker 1: and they were searching the entire area, so it was

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Speaker 1: incredibly time consuming and incredibly intent. You know, very often

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Speaker 1: people think if they have a dog with them, it

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Speaker 1: saves them from danger. And actually, as you know, Ash Walcott,

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Speaker 1: I'm working on a new book, Don't be a Victim,

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Speaker 1: and that is one of the tips I give people,

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Speaker 1: if you can take a dog with you. She did

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Speaker 1: take a dog with her, but that did not stop

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Speaker 1: her from going missing. And I'm looking at a photo

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Speaker 1: of her right now, and you can see this photo

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Speaker 1: at crime online Dot com. She has the hairstyle of

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Speaker 1: the day. It's long and then waves, kind of like

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Speaker 1: a fair of faucet, but not exactly beautiful, kind of

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Speaker 1: a strawberry blonde, big brown eyes, and somebody puts some

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Speaker 1: money into her smile, because there's no way you can

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Speaker 1: have a smile that perfect. Jack. You look at this,

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Speaker 1: I mean, look at that. I mean somebody loves this

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Speaker 1: girl and is taking care of her. The one day

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Speaker 1: they don't go jogging with her, she goes missing. To

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Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, judge and trial lawyer at Ashley Wilcot dot com.

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Speaker 1: How many times do we do things in retrospect as teens,

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Speaker 1: as young people, even just up until the time the

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Speaker 1: twins were born, I would go running up and down

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Speaker 1: the East River at night at ten o'clock at not

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Speaker 1: me a felony prosecutor that knows better. It's a feeling

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Speaker 1: of invincibility. I think it is, and I think that

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Speaker 1: goes with you. But keep in mind, generally, can you trust? Sure? Right,

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Speaker 1: people can trust and you can trust that you can

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Speaker 1: go a run, that it's all okay and it's going

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Speaker 1: to be okay. But here's the thing I need to

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Speaker 1: say about the dogs, because I noticed that as well.

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Speaker 1: When you go running or you have a dog with you,

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Speaker 1: you absolutely assume that it's safer and that you're going

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Speaker 1: to be okay. So the two things I would look

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Speaker 1: for as a result of that is, Number one, anyone

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Speaker 1: at all that they questioned that they interviewed, did they

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Speaker 1: have any marks that could have been caused by a dog,

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Speaker 1: because that dog might have bitten or gone after somebody

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Speaker 1: who tried to get to her. The second thing is

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Speaker 1: I would think in my mind it must have been

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Speaker 1: somebody that she knew and that knew her dog, because

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Speaker 1: then a dog would not be defending her necessarily. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't really even know for sure what the dog,

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Speaker 1: what kind it was. I mean, I mean, if it's

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Speaker 1: our dog, it's a chubby little docks and and I

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Speaker 1: don't know, you know, if he would pose that much

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Speaker 1: of a threat, although he does a lot of growl

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Speaker 1: crime stories. With Nancy Grace, we are talking about an

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old girl just starting her life vanish while

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Speaker 1: out running with her dog. Stephen Lampley, detective at Stephen

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Speaker 1: Lampley dot com, Author Outside your Door Stephen Lampley, What

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Speaker 1: about it? How safe is it? For someone like Mandy

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Speaker 1: to go jog in remember this a very rural area.

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Speaker 1: How does that play you into the scenario, Stephen, Well,

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Speaker 1: that you would think it would be safe, you know,

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Speaker 1: you would you would reasonably suspect that she's in a

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Speaker 1: rural area and she has a dog that even that

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Speaker 1: even answer a German shepherd, you know. And on top

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Speaker 1: of that, you would you would think that you could

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Speaker 1: go jogging and ben be safe. Oh, it's a German shepherd.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, Joanna Small, it's a German shepherd. It's a

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Speaker 1: German shepherd. I think it's an older dog though, between

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Speaker 1: like ten and twelve years old, the German shepherd that

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Speaker 1: she grew up with. Does it still have teeth? That's

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Speaker 1: my question because Stephen Lampley, you know, I get into

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Speaker 1: it all the time about pit bulls and how they

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Speaker 1: eat people. Although there was a recent pit bull that

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Speaker 1: saved a family's life from a coral snake and his

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Speaker 1: name was Zeus and he passed away, okay, and I

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Speaker 1: feel awful about that, But they do still eat people.

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Speaker 1: German shepherds are right up there, I think in the

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Speaker 1: top three of they will bite you. Yes, And she

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Speaker 1: she has this German shepherd and they have a reputation

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Speaker 1: for defending. They're very, very loyal animals. So, as a

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Speaker 1: police officer, if if I see, if I see a

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Speaker 1: case like this, and you know this as well as

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Speaker 1: I do, Nancy, whenever you have a young person that

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Speaker 1: comes up missing like in under these circumstances, it never

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Speaker 1: ends well. As opposed to is if you have an

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Speaker 1: elderly person that comes up missing, maybe that person just

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Speaker 1: forgotten how to get home, maybe they got lo astro

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Speaker 1: got preoccupied. Those don't always end bad. But whenever you

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Speaker 1: have a young person that ends up missing like this,

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Speaker 1: it almost always is not a good result. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I know that Steve Lampley is speaking anecdotally, but the

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Speaker 1: statistics do bear out what he is saying. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to this. Learned what Mandy's normal route was and

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Speaker 1: followed the sign and found the evidence that it was

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Speaker 1: her sign that was coming out onto that road, it

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Speaker 1: was her tracks, and followed it to a place where

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Speaker 1: the tracks just stopped and they shouldn't have. Her dog

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Speaker 1: was running with her and the dog tracks stopped there. Also,

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Speaker 1: it makes you think probably someone pulled her into a

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Speaker 1: car and took off with her. I mean, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of the worst. She's not going to be forcibly taken

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Speaker 1: forcibly unless two or three guys grabbed her. And there

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Speaker 1: was no evidence of that on the road. There was

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Speaker 1: no scuffling and pushing and shoving and that type of thing.

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Speaker 1: The question was, was it just somebody driving by that

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Speaker 1: drove up that road and sees this beautiful girl running

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Speaker 1: with a dog and decides to grab her, or was

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Speaker 1: it somebody that knew her? And I'm trying to absorb

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Speaker 1: everything that track or Joel Harden is saying there to

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty to Joanna Small, reporter jointing me from k

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Speaker 1: I R O sevent TV. What is he saying about

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Speaker 1: finding trucks they believe they're Mandy's and then suddenly they

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Speaker 1: stopped and no evidence of a scuffle. Explain interpret to

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Speaker 1: me what he's saying. Well, again, we prefer to it

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Speaker 1: several times. But the area being very very world in

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Speaker 1: Azec River is surrounded by brush and so it's very

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Speaker 1: easy to kind of disappear into that brush area. And

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Speaker 1: you have to remember Mandy was an athlete. She was

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Speaker 1: a star basketball player. She ran almost every day. I

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Speaker 1: don't think there was a sport that she didn't play,

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Speaker 1: and she ran very very quickly. There would never It's

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Speaker 1: not surprising him. Wouldn't be surprising to any detective that

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Speaker 1: there wasn't a visible scuffle. People were pretty sure she

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Speaker 1: could outrun just about anyone. Well yeah, unless that person

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Speaker 1: was in a car, because I mean, if you think

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Speaker 1: about it, common sense agrees with you. But when I

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Speaker 1: think back on you know, Karina Vatronto, she was much

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Speaker 1: more physically fit than her killer, Chanelle Lewis. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was addled with dope and booze. She could definitely

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Speaker 1: outrun him, but he had the muscles and let's see

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Speaker 1: Molly Tippets, she could have outrun her killer. I mean

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Speaker 1: these women. I think about Missy Beavers, who was not running,

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Speaker 1: but it's an exercise gladiator instructor who was I guarantee

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Speaker 1: you more fit than whoever killed her. There's not a

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Speaker 1: gladiator called a gladiator instructor for no reason. So I

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Speaker 1: find it really interesting to Steve Lampley that they can

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Speaker 1: fall all her tracks, you know, tennis shoes, running shoes,

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Speaker 1: and of course you see the dog tracks beside it,

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Speaker 1: you know that's her. And then suddenly they just stop.

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Speaker 1: There's if it's mud or sand or dirt. Do you

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Speaker 1: see that, it just stops. Analyze that for me, Stephen Lampley, Wellancia,

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Speaker 1: I wish I could see what they saw on the footprints.

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Speaker 1: To have footprints, in other words, just to have to

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Speaker 1: have a couple of footprints like she's jogging and then

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Speaker 1: nothing more, without any scuff, without any turning of the

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Speaker 1: footprint like she's turned to talk to someone. To have

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Speaker 1: just footprints like she lifted off is really suspicious. I

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Speaker 1: would think there would be perhaps the ending, but maybe

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Speaker 1: she would have turned to talk to somebody, or the

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Speaker 1: footprints would have been smeared. There would be something more

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Speaker 1: than they just ended. In my opinion, Well, also think

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Speaker 1: about this, as Jackie here in the Student accurately points out,

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Speaker 1: she wouldn't just leave her dog behind, getting the car

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Speaker 1: willingly and leave her dog behind. For those of you

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Speaker 1: just joining us, a graduate of Mount Baker High Mandy Stavock,

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Speaker 1: home on bright from her freshman year at Central Washington University,

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Speaker 1: goes jogging, but then her German shepherd dog Kira, returns

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Speaker 1: home three hours later without Mandy, and then the nightmares

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Speaker 1: come true. This which went on for three days. She

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Speaker 1: was found on the third day. Mandy was found on

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Speaker 1: the south fork of the Nebsack River, probably close to

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Speaker 1: five and a half six miles from her house. There

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Speaker 1: was a bend in the river and some debris in

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Speaker 1: the body was just hung up in the debris there.

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Speaker 1: I saw her body. She was faced out. She was

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Speaker 1: just kind of suspended, just a little bit off the bottom.

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Speaker 1: There was a branch there. There was some debris that

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Speaker 1: prevented her from floating any further downstream. She was naked

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Speaker 1: except for shoes and socks on do you tennis shoes

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Speaker 1: match the description? The detective that was with me dispatched

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Speaker 1: himself in a quick fashion to get to the family

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Speaker 1: home to let her know we had found her. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't wish this on even my worst enemy. There's nothing,

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Speaker 1: there is nothing worse. There's nothing worse than losing a child.

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Speaker 1: Oh my stars, just hearing the mom is so so upsetting.

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Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends at ABC and Mandy's mom to

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Speaker 1: Carla Manly, psychologist and if you're specialist at doctor carl

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Speaker 1: up Manly dot com, her many mini books on Amazon

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Speaker 1: dotor Carla Manly, Well, my fiance was murdered. I had

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Speaker 1: no idea there could be a pain worse than that.

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Speaker 1: At when I lost my dad. It seemed to bring

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Speaker 1: it all back, the thought of losing a child, your child.

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Speaker 1: To me, I don't think I could go on, Doctor Marley.

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Speaker 1: I do believe that would be the worst loss, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: because it's not what we expect as a parent. We

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Speaker 1: want to be the one who predeceases the child, and

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Speaker 1: so the parent in this case, this beautiful mother is

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Speaker 1: left thinking, oh, this year Mandy would be doing this,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, this year where we are right now,

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Speaker 1: she would be likely turning forty eight. And when we

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Speaker 1: start getting into the mother's shoes and realizing what an

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Speaker 1: incredible life long loss this is. When we have this

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Speaker 1: violent person who an opportunistic act in a beautiful small

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Speaker 1: world community and wipes out one of her most if

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Speaker 1: not her most beloved being on the planet, it's horrific

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Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace, the medical examiner determined Mandy's

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Speaker 1: cause of death to be drowning. She'd suffered a head

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Speaker 1: injury and had been sexually assaulted. They took DNA evidence

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Speaker 1: from Mandy's body. They created a DNA profile of both

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Speaker 1: Mandy and an unknown male. Time and time again, they

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Speaker 1: would have a person of interest, they would question that person,

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Speaker 1: but something would rule them out, they had a good alibi,

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Speaker 1: or ultimately their DNA did not match. This case dragged on.

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Speaker 1: It comes a gold case, but after ten, fifteen, twenty years,

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, it's never gonna be solved. Our friends

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Speaker 1: at ABC and we're talking about the cold case of

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Speaker 1: ma Andy Stavit, a teen girl home from college on

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Speaker 1: Breake Thanksgiving. Breake goes jogging with her German shepherd dog.

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Speaker 1: Never comes home. Her body found in a river, naked

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Speaker 1: except for shoes and socks. I mean to me, right there,

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Speaker 1: that is the tip off she was sex assaulted, but

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Speaker 1: the medical examiner confirmed it. To doctor Catherine Maloney joining me,

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Speaker 1: Deputy Chief Medical Examiner at Erie County Medical Examiner's Office,

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Speaker 1: Nickel City Forensics, Doctor Maloney, how do they tell after

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Speaker 1: a body has been in the water for that period

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Speaker 1: of time three days, what the cause of death is

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Speaker 1: and that there was a sex assault. Well, and in

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Speaker 1: terms of a sex assault, you could look for trauma

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Speaker 1: to the genitalia. You could also do swabs to look

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Speaker 1: for the presence of sperm or the for DNA to

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Speaker 1: be in those swabs. And then in terms of drowning

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Speaker 1: being the diagnosis drowning is sort of a diagnosis of

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Speaker 1: exclusion where you sort of excluded everything else. So the

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Speaker 1: person wasn't stabbed, they weren't shot, they weren't strangled. They

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Speaker 1: did say she had the it sounded like a bruise

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Speaker 1: on the back of her head. So with nothing else

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Speaker 1: than the assumption becomes the person must have been drowned.

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Speaker 1: They're found in water. Well, actually, when you find a

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Speaker 1: body naked except for the shoes and socks in water dead,

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Speaker 1: the fact that she was unclosed says to me immediately

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Speaker 1: there was a sex attack. It's freezing cold, she's got

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Speaker 1: on socks and shoes, so that rules out a swim,

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Speaker 1: which is, you know, you know, far fetched to start with.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that she's naked and in the water

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Speaker 1: says to me she has been sex assaulted. That goes

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Speaker 1: to motive to whoever killed her. If this had been

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Speaker 1: a consensual relationship, a consensual sex relationship, she likely would

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Speaker 1: not have been killed. So put that together and that

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Speaker 1: gives me a sex motive for murder. To Kathery Maloney,

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Speaker 1: Nickel City Forensics. Doctor Maloney's speaking of DNA. You would

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Speaker 1: think that rushing water would take the DNA off the body.

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Speaker 1: But when the DNA is in the body, such as

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Speaker 1: in the vagina or the vaginal tract, the water would

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Speaker 1: have no effect on it. It would stay there. That

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Speaker 1: is correct. The DNA basically would have been in a

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Speaker 1: place where it couldn't have been washed off, Doctor Maloney,

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Speaker 1: How long can you get a viable DNA match from DNA,

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Speaker 1: for instance, in the vaginal track. That's a good question.

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Speaker 1: It probably depends on the condition of the body and

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Speaker 1: the condition of the where the body is found, if

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Speaker 1: the body's decomposed, if there's any type of insect or

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Speaker 1: animal activity that could have disrupted the presence of the DNA.

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Speaker 1: It really is kind of on a case by case basis.

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Speaker 1: I remember arguing to juries that and this is before DNA,

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Speaker 1: that DNA at trial anyway, there's always been doubt so

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Speaker 1: Ry Bundy Clayke acid, but before we could perfect it

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Speaker 1: to bring it into trial. Sperm lies generally three days

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Speaker 1: about swimming around. First the tail breaks off, the next

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Speaker 1: day the head breaks off. Then after that that the

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Speaker 1: sperm starts to degenerate, deteriorate. However, DNA not fully intact

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Speaker 1: sperminozoa still exists. Joining me right now, DNA expert from

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Speaker 1: Scales Biological Laboratory, George Skiro, George Skiro, how long, let's

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Speaker 1: just say, inside the vaginal tract or in the mouth,

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Speaker 1: or the throat or in your rectum, how long inside

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Speaker 1: a body will DNA be preserved? Well, Nancy, As the

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Speaker 1: doctor pointed out, there are a number of variables that

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Speaker 1: go into that, and that's one of the things that

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Speaker 1: we kind of call the holy grail of forensic science

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Speaker 1: is trying to determine what we call postcoital interview interval,

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Speaker 1: how long maybe time lapse between finding sperm and the

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Speaker 1: actual incident. And the data is all over the map.

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Speaker 1: There is one case where actually up to nineteen days

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Speaker 1: later in a cadaver they found in texts fermatozoa. So

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Speaker 1: there's no real timeline you can put on that. So

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Speaker 1: as long as it's there, as long as it's not disturbed,

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Speaker 1: as long as it's not deluded, it can last many days. Wow,

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Speaker 1: So we would be able to recover that and take swabs,

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Speaker 1: and then take those swabs and then determine if they're

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Speaker 1: spermatozoa present, and then determine DNA. Determined the DNA from

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Speaker 1: those spermatozoa. Back to Joanna Small, reporter with ki r

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Speaker 1: O seven TV. We know it's three days later that

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Speaker 1: a searcher came upon Mandy's lifeless and naked body. They're

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Speaker 1: in the South Fork the Nusack River. Who found her body.

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Speaker 1: That was Detective Ron Peterson. Initially a search team that

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Speaker 1: was going that was actually in the river, that was

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Speaker 1: in the river by boat, saw the body. They were

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Speaker 1: volunteer firefighters. They feel comfortable approaching the body, so they

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Speaker 1: contacted Detective Ron Peterson with the Wacom County Sheriff's Office,

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Speaker 1: who immediately went to that area and saw, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: her body faced down in the water with only shoes

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Speaker 1: and socks. And Ron also has a daughter who went

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Speaker 1: to school with Mandy and looked a whole lot like

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Speaker 1: Mandy in terms of, you know, the same hair, the

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Speaker 1: same eyes, and immediately his mind, he told me, went

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Speaker 1: to his daughter, and so when he turned her over,

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Speaker 1: it was extremely emotional for him. Everybody in that department

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Speaker 1: has a personal connection to either the family, the community,

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Speaker 1: or Mandy herself, and so it was heartbreaking. The search

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Speaker 1: begins from Mandy stavits kill or listen. We went out

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Speaker 1: and contacted as many folks as we could, asked for samples,

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Speaker 1: try to find out what they might have known or

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Speaker 1: what they might have heard over the last thirty years.

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Speaker 1: It's the longest case I worked on without having an

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Speaker 1: investigative leave DNA wise, at one point we sent thirty

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Speaker 1: one samples at one time, and she sorted to all

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Speaker 1: of them. Wouldn't say you lose hope after comparing that

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Speaker 1: many samples, but you can't be as excited each time

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Speaker 1: when you get let down that many times. To me,

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Speaker 1: it was if you haven't got anything to hide, then

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Speaker 1: there's no problem giving your DNA. And I had no

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Speaker 1: problems asking. The case had never never left the thoughts

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Speaker 1: of Mandy's france, and so two women were talking about

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Speaker 1: the case and talking about what a strange person Timpass was.

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Speaker 1: We should talk to the sheriff's office, they should look

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Speaker 1: at him. To doctor Carl a man, you hear friends

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Speaker 1: suddenly say, here's a guy who has a very odd behavior.

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Speaker 1: Look at him, and the odd behavior. I don't know

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Speaker 1: about any other odd behavior but I do know. Well, actually,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to this. They were supposed to get

426
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: married when she graduated from high school. After Nandy was killed,

427
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: he married her. It was a very sudden thing. All

428
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 1: of a sudden, he comes to me and he's like,

429
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: do you want to get married now? And so we

430
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: got married. They had three children together, and he became

431
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: a local delivery driver for the Franz Bakery outlet Crime

432
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. He was very controlling and always

433
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: told me what to do, what I could wear, what

434
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: I couldn't wear, who I could talk to, who I

435
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: couldn't talked to. He didn't even call me by my name,

436
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: he called me by For twenty ten, Gina had filed

437
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: for a domestic Islands protection order for herself and her

438
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: three children. In the order, she had said that she

439
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: didn't feel safe and that Tim would watch Cold Case

440
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: TV files. When he would watch the cold case files

441
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: or movies that pertain to murder, he would always say

442
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: the murderer was stupid, one didn't cover his tracks very well,

443
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: and he wouldn't be stupid enough to get caught. Wow, Okay,

444
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: that's scary enough right there. And with a neighbor that

445
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: people already think has peculiar odd behavior. The minute a

446
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: murder occurs of Mandy Stavic, he suddenly gets married and

447
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: moves away immediately. And I don't know about you guys,

448
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: but to ask you, willcott they had a wedding already

449
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: planned to happen in the future, and then something goes Yeah,

450
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: forget that, let's get married right now. I move. That

451
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: would concern me, Yeah, absolutely, And you know what, I

452
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: always say this, especially about women's truster cut and your instinct,

453
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: and so it would concern me as well. And why

454
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: aren't you going to marry the devil on himself? Yeah?

455
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: I agree, But I find it a big red flag

456
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: that they suddenly get married and move away. Now this

457
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: is even more of a red flag. Gina and Tim

458
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: in their home, they asked Tim to give a DNA sample.

459
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: I thought Tim would give us his DNA or he wouldn't.

460
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: But if you don't ask you, you don't know. And

461
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: they said that they were there to collect a DNA

462
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: that they had already collected from a lot of people

463
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: in the area. She said that she was expecting Tim

464
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: home within a few minutes. They asked him about Mandy's

465
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: Staffick and he said, oh, and he looked up at

466
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: the celey and like he couldn't remember that name. That

467
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 1: was definitely a red flag for me, which indicated to

468
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: me he's obviously lying. You don't grew up in that area.

469
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: Everybody knew what the Mani Stavit case was, and she

470
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: ran past his house every day. How would you not

471
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: know it? And he said, oh, that was that the

472
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: girl that was missing? And he said, they said yes

473
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: it was, and he said, oh, you know, I remember

474
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: she was found in the river. Like it was sort

475
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: of for a revelation that he had brought that back

476
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: to his mind. You know, it was exactly who many

477
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: Stava list, but he was playing it off like he didn't.

478
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: Tim said he wasn't going to give us a DNA

479
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: that he didn't trust the police, which was another red flag,

480
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,719
Speaker 1: and by then we were out of flags. Well, won't

481
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: give a DNA sample and then pretends he doesn't know

482
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: the neighbor that ran by his house every single day. Now,

483
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: those are some red flags in my mind, what about it, Ashley?

484
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: Red flaques? Forget about red flagux To me, it indicates Listen,

485
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: he knew he was complicit. He has more information than

486
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: they know at this point in time. You know, I

487
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: just not giving DNA, pretending you don't know a neighbor.

488
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: Then we have the problem. He refuses to get DNA,

489
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: and under the law at this point they don't have

490
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: enough evidence to get a warrant on Tim Bass. They

491
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: can't force him to give his DNA, so they're kind

492
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: of stuck until this. If something happened to my daughter,

493
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: I'd want someone to help me. And I the thought

494
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: of her mom never having an answer of who did

495
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: that to her daughter? If I could help her find

496
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: that piece, I wanted to do it. She watched Tim

497
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: they got a water cooler at their office, and he

498
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: drank out of a plastic cup and threw it away.

499
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: He threw it in the garbage in front of me,

500
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: walked past into the bathroom, and I just I looked

501
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: in the garbage and my heart was like, m you know,

502
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: beating out of my test and I grabbed it and

503
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: I put it in my desk flour. I think I

504
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: waited a little bit and then I texted Detective Bowie.

505
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: I couldn't get it back to the office quick enough

506
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: and down to the lab quick enough to have it tested. Wow,

507
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: you're hearing co workers of this guy, Tim Bass speaking

508
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: to ABC twenty twenty to Joanna Small, reporter k I

509
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: r O seven TV, who is this person, Kim a

510
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: Wagoner and why does she feel she had to get

511
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: Tim Bass's DNA surreptitiously secretly? Him was another person in

512
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: the community who felt a connection to Mandy. She didn't

513
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: know Mandy personally, but like I said, everyone in the

514
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: community felt some kind of connection to this girl or

515
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: to her family and to her story. And Kim also

516
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: has a daughter, and so she felt incredibly motivated to

517
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: help the police in any way she could. This case

518
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: haunted the people in Wacom County for years, you know,

519
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: nearly thirty years at that point. This isn't twenty seventeen,

520
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: and it was it was devastating. And Kim with someone

521
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: who still thought about it every day, and so when

522
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: she saw the opportunity to do something positive that could

523
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: potentially end this and she mentioned this several times to me,

524
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: but in this torture for Mandy's family, she didn't hesitate.

525
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: She wanted to do it immediately, which is actually very

526
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: brief and isn't it true? Joanna Small KI r O

527
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: seven TV that detectives have been following Bass around, but

528
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: they couldn't get his DNA. They've been following him. I mean,

529
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: we have heard of DNA being obtained off a piece

530
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: of pizza, believe it or not. In a mansion murder

531
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: trial up in the DC area, the whole family is

532
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: murdered by a guy who comes to the door pretending

533
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: to deliver pizza. Inside the scene, they find half eatn

534
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: pizza and they take DNA off the pizza crust and

535
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: they catch the killer. So isn't it true, Joanna Small?

536
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: They've been following Tim Bass around and all they've got

537
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: so far at this point is he's a neighbor. He

538
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: refuses to give a DNA sample. Others think he has

539
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: very odd and peculiar behavior and claims he didn't know Mandy,

540
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: which obviously he does, so they start following him. That's

541
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 1: totally legal they had. Isn't it true he would take

542
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 1: out his trash and get rid of it. I mean,

543
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 1: they couldn't catch him in anything, Joanna Kim was a

544
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: fairly He kind of did the same thing every day. Therefore,

545
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: you know, he wasn't stopping at restaurants, he wasn't really

546
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: deviating from his routine. It was mostly work and home,

547
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: and they didn't have access to his work vehicle or

548
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: he spent the majority of his time, and so absolutely yeah,

549
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: they were following him around. They were attempting to catch

550
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: him in I don't know, I would call it like

551
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: a slip, something different, and to no avail, that really

552
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: wasn't happened. And to make it even more difficult, we

553
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 1: learned that he would pack up his trash in burnet.

554
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: He never left DNA out like on a soda bottle

555
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: or a plastic fourt. It just didn't happen. To George

556
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: Skiro joining me, DNA expert with Scales Biological Laboratory. George,

557
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: how do you get DNA off, for instance, a plastic cup, Well,

558
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: you get some dnafp plastic cup. It's relatively simple. You

559
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: just take a swab, a sterile swab, cotton swab just

560
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: like a Q tip, moisten it with some distilled water,

561
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: swab the area of the mouth area. Take that, let

562
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: it air dry, package it and send it away to

563
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: be analyzed. It's that simple, that simple. You know, we

564
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: hear of stories like this, but in this case it's true.

565
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: A coworker decides to help out, doesn't really even know

566
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: Mandy Stavoc and she gets the DNA and then this

567
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: I'm BILOFO, the Wackcom County Sheriff. I'm November twenty fourth,

568
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, at one fifty pm, eighteen year old

569
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: Amanda Stavic, also known as Mandy, left home on the

570
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: Strand Road out in the Acme Valley to go jogging

571
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: with the family dog. The dog returned home several hours later,

572
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 1: but Mandy did not. Following an exhaustive search, Mandy's body

573
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: was found in the South Fork of the Nooksack River.

574
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: The investigation into kidnapping, rape, and murder of Mandy Stavic

575
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: has remained a top priority for the Wacom County Sheriff's office.

576
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: Over the course of the last twenty eight plus years,

577
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: hundreds of leads emerged and were systematically investigated. Among the

578
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: potential suspects that emerged in recent years was Timothy Forrest Bass.

579
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: Deputies forward DNA samples from mister Bass to the Washington

580
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: State Crime Laboratory, who reported to us that as DNA

581
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: matched the DNA recovered from Mandy's body in nineteen eighty nine,

582
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: Bass was arrested by the Sheriff's office to active on

583
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: December twelfth. Yesterday, I'm suspicion of first degree murder, first

584
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: degree kidnapping, and first degree rate. You are hearing what

585
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: can County share? Bill Elfo announced first degree kidnapping, murder,

586
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: and rate charges on Tim Bass. But isn't it true,

587
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: Joetta Small? He claimed they had a consensual sex relationship. Yeah,

588
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,959
Speaker 1: that was the basis entirely for Tim For how Tim

589
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 1: try to explain things which was unbelievable to everyone who

590
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: knew Tim and Mandy. How did prosecutors disprove that? Well,

591
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,240
Speaker 1: it was very much a character analysis. Every single person

592
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: that they put on the stand who was speaking on

593
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: behalf of the prosecution, Mandy's friends and family or asked

594
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 1: the question, did Mandy and Tim ever interact? And every

595
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: single person said no. And Timothy Bass himself never took

596
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: the stand to answer for that, and so there was

597
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: no one to speak to the fact that he could

598
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: have possibly had a consensual sexual relationship with Mandy Savic.

599
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: And they did put his brother on the stand, which

600
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: really worked in the favor of the prosecution, because even

601
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: his own brother found it unbelievable that this ever would

602
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: have occurred. And he recalled a conversation that he had

603
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: had with Tim about that secret, like that secret consensual

604
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: sexual relationship, where Kim had mentioned to him that he

605
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: was concerned because police were going to find his DNA

606
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 1: in Mandy, and that was right after he had refused

607
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: to give his DNA sample. He told his brother that

608
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: he was concerned because he admitted he had had sex

609
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: with Mandy and they had been keeping their relationship with secret,

610
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,399
Speaker 1: and it had happened over the Thanksgiving break, which would

611
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: explain why his DNA was found in her. So that's

612
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: quite the coincidence that he suddenly reveals a quote sex

613
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: relationship with this team girl right after she goes missing, okay,

614
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: and then just a character analysis that you are describing,

615
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 1: plus no evidence of any interaction between these two, no dates,

616
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: nothing like that. In fact, he claimed he didn't even

617
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: know her. Also, she had a boyfriend and he had

618
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: a fiancee. Isn't that right, Joanna? Yeah, they were both

619
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 1: in relationships. Rick Sender was kind of an again, off

620
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: again boyfriend, but they both went to Central Washington University

621
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,439
Speaker 1: and they had reconnected. They were high school sweethearts, and

622
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: he's actually the person who drove her home for Thanksgiving,

623
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: and so they not only planned to continue seeing each

624
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: other at school in Ellensburg, but they were going to

625
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: spend time together over Thanksgiving break. He was close with

626
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: her family, and so it would have been extremely out

627
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: of character her out of character for her to be

628
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: interacting with a man, a neighbor who she'd never had

629
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: any contact with in high school or any contact with

630
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: even in the first few months of college. They didn't

631
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: go to school together, Mandy had only come home a

632
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,720
Speaker 1: few times, and so there was absolutely nothing that connected

633
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 1: the two of them. The case goes to trial and

634
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: then this we the jury find the defendant, Timothy Forrest Best,

635
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: guilty of the crime of murder in the first degree

636
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: as charged in count one. You know, I'm very curious

637
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: to Joanna Small with k I R O seven TV.

638
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Speaker 1: The sentence was three hundred and twenty months. That's almost

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00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: twenty seven years. Why not, luck there was not an

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00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: aggravated count of murder in this particular case. There wasn't

641
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 1: a murder weapon identified as someone else from the panel

642
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: had mentioned she had a deep bruise on the top

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00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 1: of her head. And they said the birdie in the autopsy,

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00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 1: the corner had said the bruise could have potentially caused unconsciousness,

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00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: But there was never any kind of of weapon identified,

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00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: so it wasn't an aggravated murder charge. And ironically, or

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00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: maybe sadly, he will send less time in prison than

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00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: the number of years it took to find him as

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00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: the killer. Wait a minute, are you telling me that

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00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 1: the fact that she was raped does not aggravate the murder.

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00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: They actually, because of they couldn't technically charge him with

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00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: rape the statute of limitations, so they had officially dropped

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00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: that charge, and he was found guilty of first degree murder,

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00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: so he was not convicted on rape. He was not

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00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: convicted on rape, but as everybody described the crime, and

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00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: even from the prosecutor's office, it was considered a rape

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00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: and murder, but he wasn't convicted on a separate rape charge.

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00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: So because they couldn't identify a weapon and they rape

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00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: statutorially could not be prosecuted because of the statute of limitations,

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00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: it was a flat out murder, not an aggravated murder,

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00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: and therefore he did not get a lot if he

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00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: got three hundred and twenty months about twenty seventy years.

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00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: There's an aggravated murder statute in the state of Washington,

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00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: and that elevates things, and so it was I don't

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00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 1: want to say it was disappointing because they knew, the

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00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: family knew going into this about the maximum sense he

667
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: could receive, so they were prepared. And so the case

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00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 1: went unsolved as long as the sentence and he is

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00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: set to walk free potentially in twenty thirty six. That's

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Speaker 1: just in sixteen years. Question, Joanna Small, how did Tim

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00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: Bass hide in playing side all these years? So well?

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00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: Tim immediately left the community. As you mentioned, he got

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00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: married to his fiance who was only eighteen. She was

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00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: only eighteen years old at the time. It was a

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00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: rushed marriage and they just left. And Tim was a

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00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: very routine person. He at a mundane job. He didn't

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00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: have a lot of hobbies, he didn't socialize. He kept

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00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: entirely to himself. His mother lived with he and Geena Malone,

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00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: who was his ex wife now for quite some time.

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00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: And Tim didn't raise any suspicions because he was just private.

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00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: And maybe if he had stuck around Strand Road, but

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00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: apparently he knew better than that and left immediately. How

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00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: well was he at the time in the murder. He

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00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: was twenty one, so he was three years older than Mandy,

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00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 1: and he was three years ahead of her in school,

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00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: which is why he had initially claimed Pete. He didn't

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00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 1: remember her, didn't know her. Justice delayed, but not denied.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crimes Toyes signing off goodbye friend,