Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: Steven Yelloff, the president and CEO of Tanker, a leading
Speaker 2: operator of open s shopping centers across twenty US states
Speaker 2: in Canada, joins US now to discuss this sector and
Speaker 2: your business. Sir Stephen good To, can't chat with you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, John, Thanks for them. Let's get into this.
Speaker 2: Traditionally we talk about a Macy's and the Bloomingdale's being
Speaker 2: that anchor retailer in them all. How has that changed
Speaker 2: and how are things developed for you?
Speaker 3: You know, the footprints of our shopping centers are considerably
Speaker 3: smaller than the larger regional malls, So for US, anchor
Speaker 3: retailers are in the twenty five thousand to thirty five
Speaker 3: thousand square foot range, so far less reliant on any
Speaker 3: one tenant in any of our shopping centers. But there's
Speaker 3: still great draws. So Bloomydale still has an outlet business
Speaker 3: Sacks off Fifth too, both of which they facilitate brands
Speaker 3: that you wouldn't get in typical lifestyle stores that you
Speaker 3: have in our our.
Speaker 2: Shopping So much has been written at about this sector
Speaker 2: of this industry in the last ten years. Usually it
Speaker 2: got something like this, most dreadful dying.
Speaker 1: It's the end.
Speaker 2: It's not for you. You see things quite differently.
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, you know, ever since COVID, the
Speaker 3: open air shopping center has really been sort of the
Speaker 3: highlight in our sector. People like the place where they
Speaker 3: can gather, where it becomes a community space. So the
Speaker 3: outlet centers of ten fifteen years ago really power shopping experiences.
Speaker 3: But now they're evolving. We're changing the uses. We're filling
Speaker 3: some of that vacant see those created by COVID with
Speaker 3: different types of uses, not necessarily outlet uses. Bigger draws
Speaker 3: draw retailers where people want to come and shop every
Speaker 3: week as opposed to once a quarter.
Speaker 1: How much are you seeing that bifurcation that we were
Speaker 1: talking about in Macy's with respect to some of the
Speaker 1: lower income shoppers. Are people who are more looking for
Speaker 1: discounts and those who are willing to go to the
Speaker 1: upper end types of products.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, look, we see Macy's as a competitor
Speaker 3: for us because Macy's branded value and that's pretty much
Speaker 3: what we're selling all day. So for us, if we
Speaker 3: can create more theater, if we can create more excitement,
Speaker 3: if we can create more of an entertaining environment for
Speaker 3: people to shop. And I think they find that when
Speaker 3: they come into one of our centers where Ralph Laurence
Speaker 3: store is end to end just Ralph Laurence, so you
Speaker 3: can shop the entire lifestyle, the brand, the depth, the
Speaker 3: breath of the product in one environment where the service
Speaker 3: And that's a huge part of the business too, is
Speaker 3: you know, it's interesting, you know all the different places
Speaker 3: where one can shop online or large department stores. I
Speaker 3: think there's nothing more satisfying to a customer that when
Speaker 3: a service representative says, you know, you look pretty good
Speaker 3: in that thing, and that helps sometimes helps close the deal. So,
Speaker 3: you know, we want to make sure that we provide
Speaker 3: service where a lot of those other venues don't.
Speaker 1: I need someone to tell me that I look good
Speaker 1: before I buy something. Look, there's a real question here,
Speaker 1: and I guess I'm going to the question of the
Speaker 1: consumer and the retailer and the ability to spend Right now,
Speaker 1: there's so many sort of roader economic questions tied to
Speaker 1: your business. To understand how many people are will to
Speaker 1: shell out one hundred dollars two hundred dollars a day
Speaker 1: for the experience for the walking up and down the
Speaker 1: mall and buying some food in the process. Are you
Speaker 1: seeing greater foot traffic increasing or do you see a
Speaker 1: real kind of pushback restraint by consumers that have gotten stretched?
Speaker 3: You know, so our traffic numbers seem to be pretty
Speaker 3: consistent with where they were even in the peak, you know,
Speaker 3: prior to twenty nineteen. We're seeing more cars now in
Speaker 3: our center that we did then, and I think a
Speaker 3: lot of that is because we're closer into where the
Speaker 3: public is shopping now. You know, the old narrative on
Speaker 3: outlet centers, we are so far out that it required
Speaker 3: a special trip and a special drive. And now what
Speaker 3: we're finding is people are moving to a lot of
Speaker 3: the geographies where our centers are and we become the
Speaker 3: center of the energy. And because of that, in order
Speaker 3: for us to compete in those marketplaces, we need more variety.
Speaker 3: And variety comes not only with better outlet retailers, but
Speaker 3: it also comes with better food and beverage, restaurants, sit
Speaker 3: down entertainment, things for people to do, and that's why
Speaker 3: we're seeing the cars come, and they're coming more frequently.
Speaker 4: When I grew up going to Tanger was a highlight,
Speaker 4: you know, twice a year. Now it sounds like what
Speaker 4: you're saying is you're making this habitual. How do you
Speaker 4: do that? How do you see returning customers so that
Speaker 4: it's not just I'm going to go to the outlets
Speaker 4: once a year.
Speaker 3: Well, let's take Deer Park, which is out in Long Island,
Speaker 3: which might be a shopping center that you visited. So
Speaker 3: you take a look at a center. Well, you take
Speaker 3: a look at a center like that, So you know,
Speaker 3: it's up to us in order to make sure that
Speaker 3: we continue to drive customers into the center far more
Speaker 3: frequently than they had in the past. It's just the
Speaker 3: variety of uses that we bring and the brands that
Speaker 3: people like. You know, the customers evolving, they're getting younger,
Speaker 3: and you know, it's really a lot of competition to
Speaker 3: get people off the couch and into a shopping center.
Speaker 3: So you can't just use great creative marketing to get
Speaker 3: a younger customer to come to your centers. They you
Speaker 3: have to have the brands that they like. So a
Speaker 3: lot of these new cool direct to consumer brands, brands
Speaker 3: you only saw online, but now you're seeing these brands
Speaker 3: in a bricks and mortar format. We're getting them into
Speaker 3: our centers and they're serving as a big part of
Speaker 3: that draw.
Speaker 4: You said that rent and open air outlet is less
Speaker 4: expensive than in a mall. Why is that?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, open air, first of all, the common
Speaker 3: area maintenance piece is a considerable charge to a lot
Speaker 3: of retail. They get passed through the retailers quite frankly,
Speaker 3: and in our centers, you know, when you're open air,
Speaker 3: there's far less of that expense to divide amongst the retailers.
Speaker 3: You know, especially in our shopping centers. We're primarily Southern based,
Speaker 3: so you know, snow removal is a huge part of
Speaker 3: the narrative too, especially now. Actually, we just bought a
Speaker 3: shopping center in Alabama and within the first month that
Speaker 3: we had that center at snowed in Alabama. Wow, believe
Speaker 3: it or not. So there's an expense piece of that that,
Speaker 3: you know, we at least see some savings.
Speaker 2: Can we talk about crime and retail as well. If
Speaker 2: we had some politicians here, depending on their party, they
Speaker 2: tell you it was really bad, Well there was nothing
Speaker 2: to see here. What's the reality in your business? And
Speaker 2: is it regional? Is it state by state?
Speaker 3: You know, I think it is state by state, and look,
Speaker 3: it's a problem everywhere and it's something that we are
Speaker 3: absolutely rigorous that when we dive in, and technology has
Speaker 3: really played a great role in helping us think through that.
Speaker 3: How do you thwart off potential organized crime? You know,
Speaker 3: we have great connectivity back to the FBI and of
Speaker 3: the great government agencies that give us alerts when there
Speaker 3: are some things that are planned. And you know, we
Speaker 3: have great surveillance on site, digital surveillance, drone surveillance, so
Speaker 3: that if an incident does occur, you know, we've got
Speaker 3: great opportunity to.
Speaker 2: Do you find the pressure, though the burden is landed
Speaker 2: on you to spend more on security, has this been
Speaker 2: passed to you?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, we look, we're partners with the retailers
Speaker 3: in our centers and a lot of those retailers contribute
Speaker 3: to you know, we talked about CAM earlier and they
Speaker 3: can contribute that CAM cost. But you know, look, when
Speaker 3: something happens at a Tanger center, it's Tanger that's on
Speaker 3: that on that masthead. And sure it's a it's a
Speaker 3: big part of our responsibility. You know, we'd like to
Speaker 3: say that we provide a fun entertaining and safe environment
Speaker 3: for our shoppers to come every day, and we'd love
Speaker 3: to be able to, you know, sort of that be
Speaker 3: our hallmark as we go forward.
Speaker 2: And let's talk about multidecade highs. Can you wok us
Speaker 2: through how this is shaped you a business in any
Speaker 2: way Shapeful Foam.
Speaker 3: Well, well for us, you know, being on sale every day,
Speaker 3: and I think that that's a big part of the
Speaker 3: narrative for us. You know, it's like the consumer we
Speaker 3: were talking about trading down the consumer that rather than
Speaker 3: spending their dollars on luxury products, you're really looking for
Speaker 3: branded value. There's been articles written recently about even the
Speaker 3: highest end consumer shopping in stores where they were able
Speaker 3: to get the same products that they're looking for, but
Speaker 3: get them at the best possible price. And I think
Speaker 3: that's that's what we do every day. So we're seeing
Speaker 3: a lot of customers that we hadn't seen in the
Speaker 3: past coming and at least investigating and looking at at
Speaker 3: our product, and I think we're converting a lot of
Speaker 3: customers that way.
Speaker 1: It raises a question also just about your real estate portfolio,
Speaker 1: because ultimately you do manage a whole host of different
Speaker 1: properties and you own them, And I'm wondering whether it's
Speaker 1: a time to be buying if you have all cash
Speaker 1: and you can buy, because people who do want to
Speaker 1: get out might have a more limited slew of potential buyers.
Speaker 1: Or is this sort of a place where you need
Speaker 1: to sort of manage a little bit more carefully.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, last quarter we brought three new properties to market. So,
Speaker 3: for example, we built a brand new center in Nashville, Tennessee,
Speaker 3: opened in October, and then we purchased two properties, one
Speaker 3: in Ashville, North Carolina, and then one in Huntsville, Alabama, Huntsville,
Speaker 3: Alabama being a lifestyle center, not an outlet center, so
Speaker 3: it's the first in our portfolio that is not outlet
Speaker 3: or off price focused, and we think that makes a
Speaker 3: tremendous amount of sense because of the team that we
Speaker 3: built in the platform that we built focused on leasing,
Speaker 3: operations and marketing. We think that team can execute to
Speaker 3: outlets specific and then adjacent to outlet, which we think
Speaker 3: is what lifestyle feels.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's a particularly good time to expand
Speaker 1: and be buying properties because of the discounts due to
Speaker 1: where rates are.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, for us, look, we have great access to capital,
Speaker 3: we've untapped lines of credit, We've got a relatively low
Speaker 3: debt deeper ratio, so our balance sheet is very solid
Speaker 3: and we are definitely in growth and acquisition rode right.
Speaker 2: Now, more acquisitions? Why would you make them? And what
Speaker 2: would they look like?
Speaker 3: You know, we like the South. You know, we've been
Speaker 3: very successful in the South, open air shopping centers or
Speaker 3: you know, the hours of operation and the months of
Speaker 3: operation or definitely.
Speaker 2: Send us a that's a weather's right for you?
Speaker 3: Well, you know what works for us for sure. You know, Look,
Speaker 3: we're a Southern based company. We're based in Greensboro, North Carolina,
Speaker 3: so we've we've grown up in that marketplace, so we
Speaker 3: know it pretty well. And like I said, our last
Speaker 3: two acquisitions were well, we built in Nashville, but we
Speaker 3: acquired in North Carolina and Alabama.
Speaker 2: We hear from certain industries it's easy to do business
Speaker 2: in certain states than others. Would you say the same thing?
Speaker 3: Definitely, you know, and it's I think it's more the
Speaker 3: community than the state. You know, when we build a
Speaker 3: new shopping center or when we come into a new marketplace,
Speaker 3: it's really that community. It's the local government that needs
Speaker 3: to be pro business or not pro business, and when
Speaker 3: they are pro business, it really works out great. You know,
Speaker 3: first of all, if you think about it, any one
Speaker 3: of our shopping centers employs a thousand people, and where
Speaker 3: do they come from. They come from that local communit.
Speaker 3: So we're added it from a job network and job
Speaker 3: creation point of view, but also we're a big tax
Speaker 3: generator for a lot of them.
Speaker 2: It's refreshing to hear you say it's about the weather.
Speaker 2: When I first moved over here, I thought old people
Speaker 2: went to Florida because the weather was nice. I didn't
Speaker 2: realize it was about the taxes. Took me a while
Speaker 2: to catch here. It took me a while. We look
Speaker 2: at Jeff Bezoss to Florida without a doubt that's about
Speaker 2: the taxes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but open air shopping centers is about.
Speaker 2: This about the weather of course today.
Speaker 1: I mean honestly, in New York City, can you imagine,
Speaker 1: it's like a complete snowstorm is raining direntially. That's sound,
Speaker 1: I'm sure.
Speaker 2: Of, Stephen, Thank you, Stevin out if appreciate. It's a
Speaker 2: CEO of tanger. This is bad human today, really